Bitcoin Forum

First here is a piece that chops up Obama's broken record narcissistic whining titled "Don't Mess with Messiahs",  and boy is it ever true....here: 
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/381596/dont-mess-messiahs-victor-davis-hanson
So his blubbering in the Rose Garden this time was over no comprehensive immigration reform bill from the House which is a big "no duh" since the GOP can read polls:
http://lucianne.com/thread/?artnum=790456
The public wants real border security, which of course Obama has been claiming all this time the GOP has been demogoguing for no good reason except they hate brown people, as that blather is now blowing up in his face.  The fact of the matter is that if the House passed the Senate bill, it would do exactly nothing to fix this problem (shades of Obamacare passed to cover 30 million uninsured only to result in spending trillions to still leave 30 million uninsured).   

   

The real reason Obama is sitting with this time bomb in his lap is because of a law, sponsored by none other than Dem Feinstein, which is making it virtually impossible to process these kids in a timely manner....read herehttp://washingtonexaminer.com/obama-has-wrong-prescription-for-border-crisis/article/2550349.   One very easy step, which would likely pass with little resistance on the part of the GOP, would be to amend it to streamline sending these kids back.
What is needed is a change in the law to allow the government to treat children from Central America the same as children from Mexico. "We ought to have the same protocols that we have for Mexico and Canada for the Central American countries," said Texas Rep. Henry Cuellar last week. "Forty-eight hours — we should return them."
That sounds hopeful, although the wording is vague and Obama's intention unclear. But it raises the hope that president might actually help Congress find a solution — if he can take time away from scheming to run around the very lawmakers he needs to fix the problem.


The problem for Obama, as always, is that he has key $upporter$ who want these illegals to come...and stay.

More like the problem with government. You really think anyone in the government is interested in more than paying lip service to this?

and, why on earth would they be?

I think both parties are playing kabuki theater with immigration.  Not only do they both have their $special intere$t$, but the electorate is all over the map. 
I think though, when most people see a literal flood of kids coming over like this, it becomes a whole 'nother thing.  We are talking about an invasion of our borders with kids as pawns.  It is just unacceptable and political it is going to be far more damning for Obama/Dems because they have been blowing so much smoke about border security and because we just can't handle this crisis on top of so many others.

I thought the border was the most secure it's ever been under O Joke, who takes credit for it.  Isn't that what socialists tell us?

Maybe the right can tack this to their 'end the war in Iraq' platform? I'm sure Romney promising to end the war and close the border will be so much more convincing than Hillary promising to end the war and close the border.

Yeah, I get all that.  But in the present, there are real kids being dumped here, not to mention real diseases and riff raff slipping in behind them. 

Someone in DC has to be grown up leader for once, which the Prez could actually try and perhaps have something other than a list of disasters  on his record.  He could start by getting off the golf course and actually working with Boehner and Reid to amend this bill now.  That much at least could be done. 

Enough with him whining and casting insults on minions he expects to deliver his druthers up to him on a silver platter.    He is an incompetent pompous ass who will do nothing to solve the problems he creates. 

Politicians provide political solutions, which in this case amounts to more bullshit piled on top of the last pile of bullshit we bought. The border needs to be militarized and closed. Period. There isn't a politician on earth with the nads, and we can continue to watch as we become part of the third world. 

Not necessarily true.  It's being done successfully in AZ:
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/08/us/arizona-dhs-undocumented-children-moved/
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/381557/theres-no-illegal-immigrant-surge-best-staffed-sector-southern-border-ryan-lovelace

Which of you  can claim one single person who does NOT think that the flood of illegal immigrants, refugees, whatever label you want to give them, pouring across the border is NOT a problem?   That's the accusation, either said or implied, that I keep reading here. 

The president sure as hell knows it's a problem....he has deported more than any previous modern president, including George W. Bush ...est. nearly 2 million.  He HAS "tightened security"...again, beyond anything any previous president did.    The sitting on their thumbs Congress sure as hell knows it's a problem.  They just won't do anything except squirm on their thumbs and blame it on the president.

Enough with the Dream Act blaming.  It was a common sense, compassionate, humane solution to path to citizenship for those under-30s who have been here since childhood and know nothing else except for all intents they ARE Americans.  That it started a false rumor mill in Central America is no one's fault except the rumor-spreaders.   

The president is doing all he can within the constraints of the executive.  HE CAN'T ALLOCATE THE MONEY to "militarize the border" by phone or pen, HE CAN'T PASS THE LAWS - some of these are international law -  HE CAN ONLY FOLLOW THEM, AND HE CAN ONLY SIGN THEM after they are passed by the congress.   Nothing has been passed, and word is nothing will be.   HELLO???

If he takes further exec order action, you'll howl.  If he doesn't, you'll howl.   Either shut the fuck up or get down to the border and start shooting...men, women, teens and kids.    You first.

So sick of this useless carping, just to carp.

Damn those children, what right do they have to want to live in a country that is not killing them.  OH you righties want this country to be the same as the 3rd world countries these children are coming from. Yep our hate abortion republicans say just send them back to be murdered.

“Expulsions of people who are settled and working in the United States have fallen steadily since [Obama's] first year in office, and are down more than 40% since 2009,” Brian Bennet wrote. “On the other side of the ledger, the number of people deported at or near the border has gone up — primarily as a result of changing who gets counted in the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency’s deportation statistics.”

Who's murdering their own kids? And do you really think kids possess the wherewithal to undertake something as dangerous as immigrating across the third world alone?

and novi,if you're going to argue that this president is doing more to lock down the border and deport illegals, you need to actually argue with facts and not whine and start making personal insults when your information is contradicted.  

Perhaps if the republican house would do their job and pass the immigration bill we would have the funding for more fences and about double the amount of border patrol.  So to say that it is Obama is a well known lie. The republicans stand in the way of solving any problem and then turn around and try and blame it on Obama.  But even though we know it is bullshit they won't solve any problem as Obama just might get a little credit for it and they will have no liberal getting credit for solving anything. They want the democrats to be like them and stand in the way of solving any problem this country faces.  The only thing they can think about is to reduce taxes on the people that are working hard to destroy the middleclass. Not understanding that they are hurting themselves.

He stated clearly that the priority was going to be deporting those with criminal records, or known to be a threat to public health and safety, anjy.   Also, the ones "caught" would seem to me to be a good place to start, n'est pas?

Where would you have preferred he start?  With the toddlers?

Really, whether political flaks are fudging the numbers with technicalities in order to bump them for public consumption is the kind of thing that conservatives obsess over; not me.   I know as I write this that the president and this administration are sincerely doing all they can, despite these batshit conspiracies you people seem to live to immerse yourselves in.

Look at who is bringing them .  This is human traffic, money changing hands, using desperate people as their pawns.   $ From these corrupt government officials to the cartels to the coyotes.  Round and round.

No I do not think that  3 year old knows why and what they are doing.  But their parents did.  Can you imagine the anguish the parents must feel when the only way for their kids to have a life is to be separated from them.  It must be hell in those countries if a parent would let them come without them.

Well that's all well and good, unless of course you're going to go around touting those inflated numbers to make your case.  You can't argue that he's deported more than any other president, then get upset when it's pointed out that this isn't the case, and then say that it isn't for you to worry about if the numbers are inflated.  lol.  Well I mean you can, but...

It is indeed rough in some of those countries.  My SIL lives in Honduras and takes in some of those children who do not have parents, or who have been abandoned.  These children are coming here, though, because their parents have been given the idea that once they cross, it's a ticket to stay.  And may be right.  That is the problem, and why more keep coming.

Forget the numbers then.  F... the numbers.   Tell us what you're telling your Republican congressman to do.
Nothing informs the electorate about how sick and diseased the right wing has become than letting conservatives speak for themselves.

I'll take that to mean that going forward, you won't tout numbers you now know not to be true.  Baby steps!
I want the borders secured.  And I believe we have the manpower to do it.  And I believe talks should be underway with these children's countries and we have to make it clear that these children will be returned immediately.  It is up to their home countries to handle what happens to them once they are returned.  This is the only way to keep more from making the journey. 

What you want wasn't what I asked you,  and those things are being done already to the best we can do.  I asked you what you are asking of your Rep. congressman...have you been in touch?   Was "Please pass an immigration bill" - or at least bring one up for vote - anywhere in the communication?  Once these people are HERE,  there are complicated measures.  You don't just pile them in rail cars and wave bye.

I disagree.  We are not securing the border to the best of our ability, and I have seen no details about talks with these countries in which we are taking a hard stand and letting them know that these kids will be boomeranging right back home. 

And to your "you don't just pile them into cars and wave goodbye," apparently we do.  Only we send them further into the United States rather than back to their country.  Apparently bussing them to wherever we want them is not the problem.  We're doing that now.  We're just going the wrong way.

You get so busy being smart alecky, counting nits to make some kind of 'score' (which escapes me, whatever you think you're scoring) that you don't seem to realize the nits are on a giant diseased rat....and is not  named Obama.  It's called Congress.  The Republican congress.

I realize you'd like to deflect all of the blame onto only republicans.  There is plenty to go around.  But you seem to have been defending this president's record on deporting illegals and securing the boarder here on this thread that is actually about the Obama administration, so, uh...   

If you read the OP, you will see the deportations are being held up by our own restrictions. 
Step 1 and 2:  Change the restrictions and secure the borders.  Nothing else matters until that is done.

Please, point me in the direction of where talks have occurred in which we declared point blank that these kids were being returned immediately and then those talks were followed up on to show that we are serious.  I'm dying to see them.

Strawman.  What I said (meant anyway) is that we are pursuing diplomatic solutions with these countries.  I've read numerous accounts of American officials in talks with these south and central American countries.  

You're looking for simplistic 'solutions' (because really, you're a simpleton)...and you're not going to get any.  Especially if your representatives don't represent anything except their party.

If the goal is to change the rules so that these kids can be returned to their home countries immediately, I predict the right will be on board.  Want to make any predictions about your side?  Because if there's resistance to that rule being changed I don't think it's so crazy to predict that it comes from someone on the left, Jackie.  And as the article linked in the OP points out, pushing for a change to this rule hasn't been Obama's focus at all.  
You forgot to add AFTER he VOTED AGAINST IT under Eisenhower.
Your example, is one explanation of why our friends in the south seem to hate our federal government so much.  

It forces them to stop discriminating, forces them to allow Blacks to vote, and add to that, it allows Black and White folks to marry each other.  Lawdy - no wonder they hate our government so!!

What you think and predict does not really interest me sana, because I find you flippant and insincere.   Never did really.  

And back to posts filled with only personal attacks.  Shocking.If you're wondering what the president's focus was on, it was on blaming republicans.  So there's that.

Yes, only personal attacks.  Well, except for that page I tried to seriously discuss this.Because really, the important thing is whether the president has actually deported approximately 2 million, or only approximately 1,678,392 depending on how they're counted.    Don't you know.   Now where's that emoticon.  

Yes, you are always very serious until you were shown to be wrong or can no longer make your point.  Then come the posts with no other content aside from personal attacks and insults. 
If you had to only post on topic, I tend to think your head would explode eventually. 
Back to the topic.  Would you support the change to the trafficking victims protection act cited in the article in order to allow these kids to be returned immediately?  Do you think that your representatives will, or the president for that matter? 

Depends entirely on what the bill says.  Returned immediately under what conditions, under which agreements and guarantees by their own governments?

Bills are debated and revised on the floor.   But first they have to be brought to the floor!

You are struggling with the facts.  Obama wanted the House to pass comprehensive reform.  The sticking point for the GOP is border security first because they do not trust the measures in any comprehensive bill will be done once they bill is passed.  Now really, can you think of any reason..like maybe a dozen or more...why they should trust the guy who has told more lies than Pinocchio and only selectively enforces his own law and those already on the books? 

That bill would exactly zero to mitigate this border situation.  Obama, hrumpting about that, is now going to use his phone and his pen to....um....er....uh....he'll let you know.

Dishonest.  If you take away the inflated counts, deportation is actually down under this president.  You can try to make that sound as flippant and inconsequential as you like, but for a person who was just trying to argue that this president has deported more than any other president in modern history, you should probably just stop already.

And you're trying to make a "fact" out of the idioty that the president "has told more lies than Pinnochio and is not to be trusted".This is pointless.
 And you know what...it's going to continue to be pointless until and unless every single teabagging asshat is voted out on his can.

Are you seriously going to try to pretend the president is not largely views as, shall we say, less than forthright?   Why don't you scroll through this link.  Take your time, four pages of his bullshit is a lot to cover and this isn't even a comprehensive list:
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/barack-obama/statements/byruling/false/    

Right now we've got a bunch of Cliven Bundy wannabes forcing buses loaded with immigrants..women and children and teens -  on their way to detention in California from Texas forcing them off the road to turn around.  It would not surprise me if we see gunplay on the freeway.   Because freedom and liberty.

Enjoying the kool aid? This "my guy can do no wrong" attitude about politics is a big part of the current problem in this country. 

It's bullshit.  You know, and we know, that if he "pushed" anything to the congress they'd fold their arms across their collective chests and say Nope.  Not gonna do it.

Well heck.  We already have more illegals than everyone else and since you want them here, you keep them.  With all your empathy and money should take a few dozen right into your home. 
Do it.....   

Their behavior is outrageous - and totally Un-American.  They just shit on the very fabric of what America is made of.

Despite all the funds used with high walls, etc. We still have no border control lol.

Such a waste of money.

Now you're channeling.  "you want, you believe, you think, you are".Gearing up for another ridiculous marathon where you wind up screaming about dogshit?

"Because freedom and liberty" .That's a good enough reason to close the border for me.My freedom and liberties are being seriously encroached upon while Washington plays ping pong. 

No, I'm serious.  Why don't you take some?  You have the money and the time and you're a nurse.   Please explain why, if you don't want these kids deported, you aren't willing to take any.    

I have never said I do not want illegals deported .  I have said it is a complicated issue with variables.  Made more complicated with our byzantine immigration laws (domestic and international) and policies that Rs don't want to fix or even address,  but do want to continue to bitch about (Obama's fault!).   Now I realize that variables is something you don't do, or can't (you're a champ with the snide non sequiturs though) ....that is not my problem. 

Well, being as how it is so complicated and all...and being as how you think the folks who don't want them in California are assholes...and being as how you want to blame it all on the Rs....why don't you explain to me why one of the variables that you do can't be you taking in some of the kids? 

Better idea; why don't you take a hike. I have a feeling the pres is going to start moving money around for the border problem, with or without the consent of the do nothing Congress.  The pen and the phone.   And then the howling is going to get deafening.  He's out there saying ok, you asked for it; sue me!

You wish.  But I made my point...this is just another mess made by the Dear Leader for which you don't think he or you bears any responsibility.   But just a reminder for you....most do:
http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-polls/063014-706916-americans-blame-obama-on-immigration-irs-iraq-ibdtipp-poll.htm#ixzz36HVIJAKm
Moving it around to do what?  Specifically.   

What part of the news do you ignore.  Most apparently.  It was the tea party that stopped immigration reform and we would have fences and more border patrol.  So  you  all can blame the republicans.

It would be wrong beyond belief to make these kids scapegoats for their country's own problems, or the hateful racist pieces of shit that inhabit the GOP, especially down in the south. I'm sure anjy is correct that the right would be ALL for sending these kids back--but only because child labor laws prevent their corporate masters from putting them to work immediately in the fields. Sure, the GOP wants these kids to go back--there's no profit in them.

These kids are here. They should stay here. If they're kids they can be molded and made into productive citizens. Personally, I have no problem accepting any kids into this country--they don't even have be white Europeans as some in the south believe are the only human beings fit for immigration. Black, brown, red, yellow, I'm fine with ALL kids. And I am happy to see my taxes go up a tad to support them. Parents can buy their daughters a few less Barbie dolls--the prospect of what these kids face if returned being in my mind a bit less pressing than buying little missy a new Barbie. I realize that some parents think that without that Barbie, little missy will turn into a psycho, but if they're concerned about that, taking a look at their own parenting practices would probably do more than shelling out bucks for one more consumer product.

Wanna close the border? Fine. I have no problem with that. Obviously we've got a nightmare with immigration, which will be settled when the rightwingers stop running their mouths, and start holding corporations responsible for breaking the law. We're ALL in favor of getting the matter settled.

But these kids are here now, and I haven't the slightest interest in sending them back to their countries like little fucking pingpong balls to satisfy the disgusting freak southern GOPhers.

It's really that simple. Taking out your immigration--brown skin--problems on kids is really fucking dragging the bottom of honor and decency, and anyone who would suggest the same is worth shit in my book.

Uh,.....you mean like the President?


On June 30th, President Obama asked Congress for "emergency supplemental appropriations legislation" to deal with and deport child migrants. (As reported by the New York Times earlier, the total request is expected to be about $2 billion.) Additionally, Obama asked Congress to make changes to the law to give the Department of Homeland Security "additional authority to exercise discretion in processing the return and removal of unaccompanied minor children from non-contiguous countries."

Honestly, what do I care what Obama thinks? Did you mistake me for a supporter of his? I support issues: not people. I don't care what he says, this contemptible treatment of kids is inexcusable. If he didn't want to allow them in, then he shouldn't have, should have told the countries doing it that the planes would be escorted back to their airport by the USAF. But now that he let them in, they're here, and it would be the height of Republicanness to take out our issues with immigration on kids whose only crime lies in being born.

When's the last time, I made obeisance at Obama's altar?

well novi and zolace agree, novi finds an issue he disagrees with Obama on, and zolace disagrees with Obama no matter what he says or does, See novi no need to explain to him or any phoneycons how you view the president, it's a waste of typing time .

The only concession I would make is this: as far as I'm concerned, any parent that put their child on a plane forfeited his/her rights as parents, so I wouldn't have the slightest issue declaring this a humanitarian crisis, to which the normal rules of immigration do not apply, including those allowing family members to join them later on. Then I'd let each kid decide for himself after 3 years (or right now if they wish) to return to his own country.

I'm sure I'll lose on this issue, because who the fuck cares about a bunch of kids who never did anything wrong. Much better for the rightwing wing sick southerners to bleat bleat bleat about how we have to toss them all up.

Speaking of a waste of typing.   Don't you have an Obama poster on the ceiling over your bed to stare at dreamily, sana?  Don't let me keep you.  

no, but I'm thinking of getting one because I think he's the greatest president ever ........ ;D

My response is far more directed at the tone and tenor of the sick southern rightwingers on this board,zolace. But the fact is that George W couldn't get immigration reform past Republicans in Congress--honest to god how do you expect Obama to do so?

FIRST the border? That's bullshit. It's just a tactic to stall serious addressing of the internal issues of immigration, first and foremost of which is your beloved corporate profits being so dependent on those immigrants.

Trying to blame the ills of immigration on Obama when even the Smirking Chimp couldn't make the GOP see reason is really falling short of the mark.

lol, well, I'm gonna have to part ways with you there.

I waver between saying, of Obama, "he did as much, or more, as could be expected given the opposition and the state of the country when he took over"

and

"it would be nice if he had a set of balls. Since he hasn't shown any in his Presidency, then he has no one to blame for the Republicans being so hostile and obstructionist but himself."


hmmm...and I should note, in my darkest moods, I think that the man and the entire Obama Presidency have been a red herring thrown at us by the 1%ers to distract us from the real issue facing the country: the 1%ers.

My first problem, for the record, with Obama came with his flipflop on campaign funding, and I said even then I thought it showed a certain expedience that spoke to a lack of character. My second problem came with Rezko, because I think that incident showed that as soon as he got into a position to profit from the perks of power, he jumped at it. And my third problem came with the vacant look in his eyes as he stood there in Grant Park accepting the presidency as he destroyed McCain: I said then and still believe "there is no there, there."

I grant that Obama has faced probably the worst, most disgusting, vilest, evillest, opposition--and they're almost all on this board!--that any President since Lincoln has faced. But Lincoln faced greater crises, and triumped: Obama is, to quote the hackneyed phrase, "no Lincoln", hence can never be the greatest president this nation has ever had.

it is said of Giovanni d'Medici, when elected Pope Leo X, that he quipped: "God has given us the papacy: let us enjoy it."

I felt like Bill Clinton enjoyed the Presidency. I felt like George HW took it as a duty, and enjoyed it because he enjoyed duty. I felt like George W enjoyed it because it gave him a shred of self esteem (even if he knows it was stolen) he was deprived of lifelong. I felt like Ronald Reagan, at least while still conscious, enjoyed it. I felt like Gerald Ford didn't, and don't blame him, I felt like Nixon enjoyed it thoroughly because it allowed him to use the ideas in his fertile brain.

But I don't feel like Obama enjoys being President. I don't feel like he's got any real passion in his soul, and maybe it takes a bit of passion to be a good president.


The worst thing I ever felt about Obama was when I heard about that sentence in his memoirs, "I chose my friends very carefully..." Even at a young age, due to his background, he was lived a life of self-repression, where he had to behave in certain ways to keep in good with the eyes of others...carefully choosing his friends to make sure that his persona didn't suffer in the eyes of those who mattered.


It takes huge self-discipline to construct a persona like I think he's constructed: one composed almost entirely of being the guy people want to get ahead. And I think it takes a lot out of a human being, he is the closes approximation to a Vulcan.

And much as I like the Vulcans, I also have a great fondness for the Minbari: a good question would be which would make a better President: a Vulcan or a Minbari of the warrior caste!

My take is the way he has almost personally went after al-queada tells me he has balls, even though he has the SS and all, to knock off the top leaders like that, as vicious as they are, knowing he still must travel is ballsy. I honestly think bush the daddy's boy was afraid of them, that's why he went after a country, less personal, and it's what his neo-con uncles told him to do

but seriously, just out of spite I will always say nice things about Obama as long as the nutjobs never say anything nice about him, it's the Libra in me

I think I were honest I would say that Obama is less a disappointment to me as is than he would be if I felt he were truly dedicated to my values. Because I said on this forum that he needed to go to Reid with all his popular support and tell Reid to change the cloture vote to 56. That would have prevented the type of obstructionism that Republicans started immediately. It was a chance lost. I'd almost feel better if he purposefully passed it up in obedience to 1%er orders, rather than that he truly desired the same things you and I do and missed the chance through bad judgment. Because he had a real chance to accomplish that fundamental transformation he spoke of. Bitterness or cynicism are my choices: I think I am opting for the latter.

I think he started out enjoying it because he was naive enough to think republicans loved their country enough to at least help to keep it functioning. If I had to work with them I'd consider suicide.....

oh, hell, I'd love to repeal the two term limit and shove him back in their faces a third fourth and fifth time just to see their heads explode. I've hated the sicker rightwingers--and we know who they are, no names need be mentioned--that drag this forum down with their vitriol and sick spittle, op after op which assumes, imputes and desires the WORST possible motives all the time, claims every outcome the WORST ever, it's just gotten so tiring. But I'd happily shove him right back down their throats and put up with all their bullshit still just knowing how much they hate, on a daily basis, the fact that the President is black.

He let reid make that decision, also I believe he had enough confidence in himself to believe he could find a way to work with republicans, and then reid telling him well what if they gain control. So I'd agree he miscalculated just how vile republicans were, his weakness was having a good nature .

No, I don't.   Because as polls show, he is even less competent.  Even Bush knew how to build a bipartisan coalition by starting with key cosponsors with ongoing WH access whom he did not demean in public regularly like an asshole; Obama is petulant whining disengaged child/king who only cares about appeasing his rich cronies.   One of the major lessons that was discussed back then, and which the Dear Leader OBVIOUSLY did not learn then or after foisting the partisan Obamacare on the nation, is these massive comprehensive bills are a disaster. 
No, actually it is not bullshit.  It is most necessary part regardless of any of the rest, both in terms of immigration and real national security.  We've already tried amnesty without this component locked down and OBVIOUSLY it has not been successful.    Without this NONE of the rest matters and this is well understood by your beloved fascist stooges who are dependent on these illegals to help build their permanent underclass.   And I don't just mean of brown folks.   

Have you look at recent polls?  Americans are actually favoring LESS immigration altogether.  Because they are VERY aware that there are fewer jobs for Americans as a result, both unskilled and skilled, at a time when there aren't enough already.  The irony of all ironies being the hardest hit of all are blacks.   

This is a typical leftwing strawman...just look how every one of you nimrods is engaging in it.  NO ONE is denying the Repubs are guilty of the ills of immigration too.  THEY ARE.   But this border crisis is NOT a result of not passing comprehensive reform nor will it address how to fix it...that is complete and utter horseshit.  TO THE CONTRARY this crisis is a direct result of Obama creating the impression of amnesty coupled with his expansion of the welfare state coupled with an absolute lack of real border security.    ON ALL those he has been demogoguing in his arrogance and this parade of kids is a DIRECT result of that. 


It is beyond idiotic to blame the GOP for why these kids are coming.  WTF is the "do nothing" GOP offering that would bring them here in droves?  No, sorry, but this one is square on the shoulders of the Dear Leader as the polls clearly indicate.   And he has known FOR MONTHS and has done exactly nothing about it.   

So what we have here is yet another in a never-ending series of "this is not Obama's fault".  Then whose fault is it, pray tell?  Is this guy, or is he not, the (unfortunately) head of this country?

I keep asking, if nothing is his fault, is his underlings do not seek guidance from him and continually fuck up, why doesn't this genius get rid of them and find competent people?  If this always falls on some rogue, low-level employee, why is the head (unfortunately) of this country not doing one of the jobs he is being paid to do and cleaning house?

If he has no responsibilities, why are we employing him?

Why?  Why would that bit of self-revelation make you react with 'the worst I ever felt' about him?

Does not surprise me in the least that this man considering his childhood and his circumstances, starting out from his first breath as an 'other' no matter which culture he found himself in, (black child in a white world, then black child in Indonesia, then black in a white world again)...would defend himself by finding a way to fit.  Indeed, a way that could elevate him, eventually, within the dominant group, not only to equal footing - but possibly above and beyond it.  Overachieving and ingratiating himself was what he chose - with a few spates of rebellion.  I think the 'passion' you believe is missing is there; it simmers underneath.  

According to his memoirs, Obama's mother was also acutely aware of what Barack needed to do to compete...and drilled him relentlessly...those 5 am lessons before school.  It was her way of preparing him and protecting him.

So yes he frustrates me too.  I want to see more fire.  But, fire isn't what we're going to get, not consistently anyway.   I understand it and have adjusted to it.  Bottom line, I think he's a good guy and a good president.    

Personally, I believe a woman who abandoned him and sent him off to his grandparents, barely ever to see him again, is unlikely to have 'drilled' 5:00 a.m. lessons, especially about our Constitution, into him. 

I believe most of what he wrote about himself were 100% lies.

That is the perfect example of what I was talking about on the other thread about his terrible poll numbers.  It is mind blowing just how much smoke his people are willing to have blown up their ass.

What is "the perfect example"?   My post wasn't about "polls", it was a specific response to novi's comment. 
Speaking of blowing smoke up someone's ass, you really should give up on blowing yours up mine, which you seem determined to do.  Just accept that it's not going to happen.

Well,Sana,the reason I think it's the worst is that because it is false to "choose one's friend carefully". It says that you are vetting them not on the basis of who they are, but what they can do for you in terms of your image.

I don't think it makes him a bad person, when I say the "worst thing I've heard from him", in a way it really is a matter of sympathy. This guy has lived a life when he could never be himself, he's had to construct his life to fit with others expectations.

Why do you always assume people can't read just because you can't?   I know what you were responding to and if you don't like people making comments on what you write, I suggest you get yourself a private diary.  I am not obsessed with you or whatever other fantasies or victimhood status you concoct   because I choose to comment on your delusional remarks in a thread I started.  

The fact that Obama has lied about huge significant parts of his narrative is a fact.  You didn't care back then, you don't care now.  And even more ironic is that you completely dismiss the parts that are actually verifiably true.  You didn't care back then, you don't care now.  

He is neither a good man or a good president.  He has literally sold his soul to big money interests, swindled and lied repeatedly to get where he is today, that being an utter failure as a president.   This current crisis is not SOP for immigration woes that have been ongoing and in the interest of both parties to keep going; this is an entirely different and new ballgame and HE is responsible for it.   We know this because these illegals are saying so.

There's this thing called division of labor, where we assign to those best suited to deal with an issue the responsibility for dealing with that issue: whether the Presidency, flipping a hamburger at mickeyd's, or arranging for the organization and care of a large number of refugees. Perhaps if you had the least concept of social responsibility, you would understand that taking care of your own in Honduras isn't quite the same thing as the former.

Steller job of irony.  The point, you bloviating stoner, is that you never do any of the labor from your "job" as an arm chair bitcher as you live your selfish little tiny life of self indulgence.  This is the leftist manifesto to NEVER take any personal responsibility and tear down anyone who actually does. 


The majority of these kids have no rosy future here...they will be an underclass at best.  Exactly the way you leftist blowhards like it.  Kindly spare us your sanctimony that this is about the children.  You don't have the first clue about raising projective future citizens because living underground or off entitlements or stacked up in institutions or foster care ain't it. 

lol, I will happily plead guilty to taking no responsibility. And I compensate society accordingly for the opportunities it has provided me.
But until you elect me dictator, I don't have the responsibility for solving this or any other problem on my own. That is what society is about.
And you know, part of the difference I notice between liberals and conservatives is that liberals, including myself, are charitable, but don't use it as an excuse to avoid our social obligations and responsibilities. You guys constantly, CONSTANTLY, feel the need to tell us about your good works, as though that somehow justifies your filthy opinions otherwise, and as though liberals ONLY paid taxes and didn't give their time and money as well.

Since we know that to be untrue then one can only conclude that your need to pat yourself on your back goes beyond your understanding that those of us who believe in social altruism are likely in fact to engage in it as much as or more than thee.

And since we all know you make ridiculous crap up about the south on a regular basis, thanks for making it clear you have no actual rebut of what is true about Obama or this mess he created either. You know the man is full of crap, incompetent, and shill for big money.  The only reason you even bother to defend him is because he is a leftist wet dreamer. 
 CLASSIC leftist who only makes himself feel better by claiming to care about the kids you will never do a damn thing about personally.

Your idea of obligation and responsibility to hike taxes on other people and do absolutely nothing do get your hands dirty.  You nincompoops actually believe giving your old clothes away for a write off equates to charity. 

They never cared, they never will and don't expect nothing to be changed. That is government, too rigid to be efficient.

I specifically said I would be happy to see my own taxes go up a bit to help defray the costs.

Personally, I have no problem accepting any kids into this country--they don't even have be white Europeans as some in the south believe are the only human beings fit for immigration. Black, brown, red, yellow, I'm fine with ALL kids. And I am happy to see my taxes go up a tad to support them.

A bit.  My aren't you generous given you know it will amount to a couple more bucks at your income level.  Yeah, that ought to cover tens of thousands of kids from cradle to grave on top of the trillions in unfunded liabilities for which we have no way to pay.

I guess we've arrive at the stage of the conversation where after leftists declare they "care about the children" coming here in droves with no provision for them now or in the future, they engage in a mob beat down of those who actually have charitable involvement with those same kids. 


Meanwhile, their petulant messiah who cause the problem gets yet another pass on his blowing smoke up their ass by blaming this on the Repubs for not passing a bill which would do nothing to fix the situation.

lol. Sorry, I was quite happy to discuss the issue on the basis of what we as a society should do with these kids and how we should address the immigration issues we face.

You keep telling yourself that.  You pompous sanctimonious dimwits need to be knocked on your ass by the fact you are all full of crap.  You are every bit as selfish and greedy as the asshats in DC that you criticize and the main one whom you won't.

it was you who piped up with your declaration that "racist southerners" didn't care about the children.  The funny thing is that you think it bit me in the ass, as if batshit crazy libs have any influence on what I know to be true about what my SIL does or what I do to help her and others as you do nothing but pay your taxes and criticize those who are doing the actual caring.

Well, that should certainly help your spleen, even though it accomplishes nothing else. lolol.

umair, from where I sit,your SIL  does the work. Where exactly do you get the credit from?

lol.  Not surprised that you would take that stance given that you are alone in the world but we own a business. We are a team   And I already mentioned that I took on getting a shipping container of supplies together over this summer to be sent, and it'll go hopefully within the next month.  My SIL blogged about the hospital, and I knew some people who I thought could help me so that's been my project lately. It took a lot of willing people to get it together, each of them southern though not all of them white, granted.  ;)

The constant illegal invasion of undocumented peoples entering the country doesn't stop because no one wants to get behind any effort to stop it. Some states need the cheap labor they provide and no politician wants to lose the legal Hispanic vote. There is no easy answer to a problem that has been allowed to get out of control for decades. Placing thousands of our military troops along the border with Mexico may not be constitutional and Berlin-like walls don't work. A general amnesty may be the only logical answer for those already here along with monetary assistance for those willing to return to the land of their birth and working with the Mexican government to stop the invasion on their side of the border. One way or another its going to cost a great deal of money and until we are ready to pay for it....nothing will be done.

Yes.  I'm also sick to death of the constant bleat from cons that nothing is being done!  NOTHING!  OBAMA'S inviting team (BECAUSE THE 'ILLEGALS' SAY SO!"
Honestly, these people are brainless...and proud of it.  They actually work at it.

well, of course, we only have their own words as to the immense generosity they display...but understand there's a clear strategy behind their words. The idea is to suggest that charity can do the job, both in this instance and at home, so that government shouldn't ask them to pay taxes for these issues. But of course there's no guarantee that they either ARE contributing with the immense generosity they claim, what we have are people asking us to believe that their private charity is sufficient to accomplish our social goals, without a single evidence of proof of that generosity now or later.

It's a laughably lame attempt to get out of paying for this society's responsibilities, and is waaaaay too easily seen through for what it is: greed and lack of compassion for others.

Here's a example of how "nothing is being done".

SAT JUN 28, 2014 AT 10:57 AM PDT
Mexico, Obama Administration taking action on migration of unaccompanied children

The New York Times ran this editorial on June 16: Innocents at the Border. I have only minor disagreements with the content, but this editorial attracted 506 comments, and almost all of them were negative, along the lines of “Deport them. Deport every single one.”

This issue is a mine field for Democrats running for Congress this year. The Republicans have tried to get some traction with Benghazi, Obamacare, and “invade Iraq (or Syria, The Ukraine, Crimea, whatever)” and it isn't working. The Republicans desperately need an issue they can win on, so I would be surprised if they didn't turn their noise machine loose on this one.

Let's start with a fact: according to the Border Patrol, three-fourths of these unaccompanied children are coming from Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador, not Mexico. They, of course,
have to travel across Mexico to get to the US. This is dangerous. They hitch rides on freight trains, and are crime targets. They place a burden on Mexico's social services (see below). So, a regional approach is required to deal with this situation, and that is exactly what the Obama Administration is pursuing. Vice-President Biden went on a tour a couple of weeks ago to meet with Guatemalan President Ottawa Perez Molina, Salvadoran President Salvador Sanchez Ceren and high-ranking ministers from Honduras and Mexico. He also talked to Honduran President Juan Orlando Hernandez on the phone. President Obama has responded by phoning Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto. The same group of Central American leaders are taking up the issue at the Ordinary Summit of Heads of State of the Central American Integration System (SICA) taking place in the Dominican Republic. Another top-level meeting has been organized in Nicaragua, to take place on July 16. And, just so that nobody gets the impression that this is all just talk, the Obama Administration has deported 27,140 Guatemalans so far this year.

Mexico's government is actually doing something, as well. The Mexico City newspaper La Jornada published an article on June 27 by Fabiola Martínez, En lo que va del año, México ha rescatado a 10,505 niños que viajaban a EU (“So far this year, Mexico has rescued 10,505 children traveling to the US”). Here's a translation:

At the end of 2014, Mexico will have rescued 16,000 children who were traveling through its territory to the United States, according to the Institute for National Migration (INM). Precisely 10,505 have been “rescued” so far this year, a 7.4% percent increase over the 9,727 rescued in all of 2013. INM warned of an increased northward flow of children, which is described by those responsible for Mexico's migration policy as a “humanitarian emergency”.

The Secretary of the Interior has proposed to his peers in the region (United States, Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras) to immediately put in effect an information campaign to discourage children from leaving their homes and make it clear that crossing to North American countries will not mean that they will be accepted as immigrants.

This proposal was raised by Mexico after a high-level meeting in Guatemala last week, and will be ratified today in another regional conclave on the subject.

The INM said that in the past nine months, state and Federal authorities have broken up 35 criminal gangs and have arrested 330 people suspected of assaulting undocumented migrants.

The National System for Integral Family Development (DIF) is dealing with children under 11 while their immigration status is resolved. They handle either the assisted return or the granting of refugee status in Mexico, and run detention facilities for those between 12 and 17 years. They use the word “rescue” for these processes.

Since 2007, the policy of the Child Protection Office has been giving priority to family unification and the physical, emotional and psychological well-being of children in turning them over to relatives.

Yesterday, Under Secretary for Population, Migration and Religious Affairs Mercedes del Carmen Guillén Vicente traveled to Managua, Nicaragua, to participate at the 19th Regional Conference on Migration. The measures proposed by Mexico will be voted on by the delegates of the participating nations.

The main points are: addressing the problem with shared responsibility, operational support to comply with any agreement of the leaders of the nations participating in the upcoming summit of the Central American Integration System, and discouraging minors from leaving their communities.

In addition, they will share Best Practices of repatriation and intensify training of public servants for care for unaccompanied migrant and repatriated children.

One thing the government could think about is keeping the kids here and sending an equal number of fixed income seniors away. I'm sure lots of folks would be willing to move back to their homeland if they could still get a check. The government could even save more money by doing col decreases.

Obviously, you pile a boatload of tourists with ssi paychecks on the beach, you're going to have to provide some security...

To the contrary,  every one of you blowhards know what frauds you are and it makes you squirm to have it pointed out.  I mean really.  Just how insecure do you  have to be when the best you can do is mock someone for their charity or their business?   


Pretty damn insecure.

It's exactly why I feel not the LEAST obligation to bray about any charitable actions or donations on my own behalf.What, rigon, you expect me to spend time in a pissing contest as to who makes the most donations or gives the most time? With someone I have not ONE way of comparing myself honestly to, since I know what I do, but have only your claims as to what you do?

No, not shamed by what we do...which imo as I've already said is not special but instead my pleasure and my obligation...but by what you don't do.  You'd rather pay your taxes and assume it is therefore someone else's problem. That's fine and your choice of course, but it makes you look sort of stupid when you accuse those who actually do of not caring or worse.

lol, except my claims are borne out by the fact that NO ONE on this board or any other has EVER heard me bitch about my taxes, and I specifically said above that I'd be happy for my taxes to be raised.A little bit of honesty goes a long way, anjy. Admitting your problem--southern racism--is the first step towards addressing it. No, no, don't thank me, as you say above, we all have to do something beyond paying our taxes, and in that vein, even as do you, I consider it my duty, anjy, to help folks like you get into the new century. Hell, I'd be satisfied with you getting in the 20th century, come to that...you still appear stuck in Alabama, circa 1840. 

Better yet, why don't you take some of the tax money liberals like myself give to you to take care of your mom, since you will be damned if you'll spend any of your own, and go buy a dictionary for me. And, in the meantime, before gifting it, look up the following words, which followed in the CBO statement your word "unsustainable", as in at current revenue levels. It has been pointed out to you 40 million times that the statement was that current spending was unsustainable at current revenue levels. Yet you always manage to forget that part of the phrase.

Been spending too much time with your intern of late to forget that one word does not in this case the sentence make?

Please, keep going.  It's entertaining.  ;)

  The fact that you would respond to me with mockingly throwing out words like "how pure and noble" is telling.  It takes neither of these things to lift a finger to help someone, and I'm proof of that.  You see those things as something unrealistic and something nobody really does; that's not my reality at all.  In my world, flawed, normal, everyday people do these things as part of their lives.  It's unfortunate that you don't have that experience.

Hilarious.  A progressive beat down of ACTUAL PERSONAL charity from people who do nothing themselves but vote money out of others pockets, and rarely for THIS countries children.

Make that pathetic.

I love when some leftwing dumbass actually tries to argue that we aren't headed for insolvency because more money would fix that!  Let me guess...Obama's unicorn isn't paying his fair share?  But once he does it will solve the problem of unfunded liabilities which are multiple times more than the entire wealth of the planet?   

Has anyone ever talked to a drunk, or someone with mental illness, or someone brainwashed? Even when you try and discuss any subject with them they always go back to their obsession. The drunk it could be his wife, you try to steer them back to another subject and their right back to their wife. Same goes for all mental illnesses. After a while maybe you chuckle to yourself and say see ya later

Same thing here with Obama. It's sad, because it says one day there will be enough mindless mental cases that will give rise to pre WW2 Germany .

Meanwhile in the real world, here is Obama on top of the problem by doing nothing just like always:

WH: No change to immigrant surge strategy 'at this point'

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/211219-wh-no-change-in-immigrant-surge-strategy#ixzz36PcO5XpI

There are a few liberals, I grant, who, rather than put up with your bile will just abandon a thread. I'm not one of them. As vicious as you get: I will remain on point--I have no need to descend to the gutter with you because as always, you , bah ha ha, I'm right. So go ahead and make your phony claims about all the charity you dispense--I'm sure you'll convince someone on the board that you do anything but sit on your asses and type your hatreds.

In the meantime, I will reiterate: these kids are here in this country, and it would take someone of contemptibly low breeding to suggest that they be deported to satisfy the racist impulses of the southerners or their acolytes.

lol. No you don't. You actually hate when once again a liberal points out that you are lying by omission: claiming that something is fact WITHOUT noting the mitigating factors stated.  ALWAYS stating the "unsustainable" NEVER addressing the "at current revenue levels". An honest person--such as myself--would copy the entire statement and then address my concerns about the mitigating factors: not pretend they don't exist and state affirmatively that CBO said something it never did.

But then again, I seem to be the only one on this board that gives a flying fuck about intellectual honesty anyway. You sure don't as we see above.

It seems to me, however, that there a whole lot of people who want these children deported. Not just in the south either. However, when it is mostly the south that is being invaded by them, it would stand to reason that many southerners want them deported. People don't always care one way or another until it affect them, do they? Seems to me those folks in California want them gone too.

Why is it that some people just cannot understand that it is ILLEGAL to come into this country if you do not do it the correct and lawful way? Yet some people keep saying, "well, they are here, so let's take care of them".  It is exactly that attitude that makes them keep coming here.

It would be wrong beyond belief to make these kids scapegoats for their country's own problems, or the hateful racist pieces of shit that inhabit the GOP, especially down in the south. I'm sure anjy is correct that the right would be ALL for sending these kids back--but only because child labor laws prevent their corporate masters from putting them to work immediately in the fields. Sure, the GOP wants these kids to go back--there's no profit in them.

These kids are here. They should stay here. If they're kids they can be molded and made into productive citizens. Personally, I have no problem accepting any kids into this country--they don't even have be white Europeans as some in the south believe are the only human beings fit for immigration. Black, brown, red, yellow, I'm fine with ALL kids. And I am happy to see my taxes go up a tad to support them. Parents can buy their daughters a few less Barbie dolls--the prospect of what these kids face if returned being in my mind a bit less pressing than buying little missy a new Barbie. I realize that some parents think that without that Barbie, little missy will turn into a psycho, but if they're concerned about that, taking a look at their own parenting practices would probably do more than shelling out bucks for one more consumer product.

Wanna close the border? Fine. I have no problem with that. Obviously we've got a nightmare with immigration, which will be settled when the rightwingers stop running their mouths, and start holding corporations responsible for breaking the law. We're ALL in favor of getting the matter settle

lol. Wrong person. There are a few liberals, I grant, who, rather than put up with your bile will just abandon a thread. I'm not one of them. As vicious as you get: I will remain on point--I have no need to descend to the gutter with you because as always, you  bah ha ha, I'm right. So go ahead and make your phony claims about all the charity you dispense--I'm sure you'll convince someone on the board that you do anything but sit on your asses and type your hatreds.

In the meantime, I will reiterate: these kids are here in this country, and it would take someone of contemptibly low breeding to suggest that they be deported to satisfy the racist impulses of the southerners or their acolytes.