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3 people including 1 die hard dark coin supporter has told me the dev of BBR is the  one to watch.

I have a few xmr and bbr but can't decide which is the best bet at the current price.

Most of the talk is about xmr though so put half in each or go all in on xmr?

BOOLBERRY is purposely flawed in order to be exploited with a  gpu. just look at the code.

Do not put all your eggs in one basket. But "Divergents" like you are a threat to the "system" lol You must conform with only one choice!!  Not many BBR threads in the main alt section, so I am sure not a lot of people even know the differences. Their PR sucks, but even I have read and did some research on the dev(s) before buying the coins and can see some quality work.

@r3wt

Can you please elaborate on this GPU exploit? I might have missed this in their ANN thread.

Boolberry has an instamine of over 100k coins at least, by that guy with the PGPU, getting previously 5-7k coins per day, now getting above 4k+ coins per day since the difficulty drop again. He probably has over 200k boolberrys by now, especially since hes been mining for months.

I dont know why anyone would even buy that coin. Its instamine is similar(though not as severe) as Darkcoins instamine.

Boolberry is able to be instamined with a PGPU, because it uses the Wild Keccak algo, instead of Cryptonight, which xmr and the other cryptonote coins use.

How can we discuss the positives of both coins and see what the differences are there?

I have read this instamine by a certain miner allegation. I then read about Botnets mining Monero and this discussion was getting masked by cheerleaders, which is why I started looking at other CN coins.

Negatives
=======

BBR has been mined by a miner who specializes in writing GPU miners (years or experience starting with BTC, LTC etc)
XMR has been mined by 2 large Botnet operators amongst other malware purchasable on HackForums (100s of thousands of overall supply to date)


Positives
=======

Lets start adding them here.

Definately Monero.

Compared to Monero BBR has pretty low volume, along with the instamine it should be an obvious choice.

Also Monero has a pretty big community, lots of big names are in Monero, most of them don't buy altcoins but they do buy Monero.

Poloniex recently replaced their LTC markets with XMR markets so it's definately not just a simple shitcoin.

https://www.poloniex.com/press-releases/2014.07.23-Poloniex-Welcomes-New-Monero-XMR-Markets

To comment on the botnet argument: First of all I don't know if it's true and even if it's true noone cares who mines the coins, it's either dumped by a lot of individuals to pay for mining costs etc. or it's dumped by one or two botnet operators, noone really cares, if anything it shows that there is a lot of interest in the coin.

The largest confirmed botnet owner for xmr only had 20 cpu's under his control...That is hardly anything tbh. Only 11% of all XMR's have been mined, and there is no instamine, you can check by on monerochain.org

Boolberry is a different story, it has a confirmed PGPU miner who is confirmed to make over 4,000 Boolberry per day at currency hashrate, and was making 5,000-7,000 per day just a month ago. Lowest he was making, was 1,000 per day(which is still very high) during the pump, so he at least has over 200,000 Boolberry by now, making that a HUGE instamine BTW, Boolberry has a PGPU miner AND Botnets

Folks, Instamining/centralized mining/botnet mining these tend to lose any impact on the coins lives. Artforz was known to have mined 100s of thousands of LTC, along with BCX and a few others. IT IS NOT A VALID POINT TO DISCUSS. Even if it is, please stop garbaging this thread with negativity.



See what you did there? Contradicted yourself. I started reading about this type of typical arguments and started looking into BBR.

It looks like you have bought into a certain coin, and now will have to inevitably live the life of a cheerleader. You make your decision based on who else is buying the coin(which isn't bad per se), but it can bite you back in the arse.

Now who is knowledgeable to list positives of these two coins. Constant negativity is not going to help.

I never contradicted myself, you really seem to miss the point.

I should mention though that I forgot to add that Monero might be mined by one or two botnets ALONGSIDE with many individuals, this is really something else than one person with a PGPU miner who now probably has ~25% of the BBR coins out there who can dump the coin to 0 satoshi, the distribution of Monero and Boolberry is completely different and is this is definately in favor of Monero.

It definately looks like you bought into a certain coin (BBR duh) and you are living the life of a cheerleader, I posted simple facts you can't deny.

Also I listed a couple positives off the top of my head but it seems that you have a hard time reading/interpretating.

Botnets dont have much of an effect, that is true, since it's known that the majority of them dump anyway. But when it comes to truly unfair instamines, like Boolberrys instamine with PGPU's(which is still going on), in which the instaminer holds his/her coins, that hinders the coin Immensely(it wont ever get accepted by store, regular joe, etc) since one person has gained unfairly, a huge amount of coins, especially since BBR has a slower emission rate than XMR, that only makes the instamine much worse.

Positives
=======

XMR

• Monero has a pretty big community, lots of big names are in Monero, most of them don't buy altcoins but they do buy Monero.
• Poloniex recently replaced their LTC markets with XMR markets so it's definately not just a simple shitcoin.

BBR

• Has an official GUI wallet.
• Can send/receive to aliases

Anyone know more details about the technical achievements of both coins, please report and discuss. Want some good CN information coming out of this thread. Thanks OP!

Reserved.

The subject of this thread was which coin was a better investment(subjective). The op mentioned that someone "swore by" the BBR dev. My comment was meant to highlight that the BBR dev is {probably} untrustworthy. The hashing implementation is {obviously} flawed, and it was {undoubtedly} done on purpose in order for the dev to instamine tons of the coin with a gpu.

I'm really tired of the hoary lie...
That celebrity Bitcoin Pumpers like McRisto have "never bought an alt coin"... just fuck off with this already.

Also, as a trader...
The Polo XMR thing is a desperation ploy by Polo to hang on to XMR volume...
Without XMR doing 300 of their 400 BTC/day they go straight out of business.

But the point of LTC markets was to provide more liquidity...
And it did somewhat because you could get LTC on an exchange in 15 minutes vs forever with BTC....
But Monero does NOTHING for liquidity since the network is random with spastic delays...
And the client is extremely error-prone with lots of lost coins I'm sure...
And you cannot absolutely prove you actually sent a transaction...
(Though SOMEDAY there MAY be something for you there little doggie).

Bittrex floating using BC is infinitely better...
You can get money on exchange in 10 minutes = better liquidity.

If you has a gun to your head and has to send $1,000,000 to save your pet puppy...
Would you use the BC network or the XMR network?  I thought so.

BBR has collapsed in price from a 3:1 ratio to XMR all the way down to 12:1...
And this has been very sudden the last week, just dumping and more dumping...
You get the occasional mini-pump, but that does not look good at all with ZERO PR...
The entire BBR thread is about technical esoterica... normal people are totally foreign to these guys...
Yet even these Ivory Tower uber-geeks have produced an infinitely more user friendly coin than the Monero group.

I would guess that XMR is likely to collapse by 50%... than BBR is to recover...
The Monero hype to me looks like Ripple version 2014...
And nobody cares about the overcrowded CN space except Poloniex.

I thought this was a neat feature too, until I found out that you have to solo a block in order to get an alias, which means that the guy with the personal GPU miner (he who shall not be named :P ) could just add a new alias every other minute and "squat" on all the good ones.

The other thing I don't like about BBR is that the dev/creator gets 1% of every block mined. It's like not a premine, but ongoingmine, or something...

I actually don't disagree with you on some of the points you raised. But there are some bizarre things you've claimed.


The network is random in what sense? There are no delays, it's a low-latency network. Transactions broadcast from my laptop in South Africa show up within fractions of a second on one of my server's in the US (easily confirmed with print_tx <transaction ID> on any node).


I have yet to find a single instance where someone lost a single coin. There have been instances where people have used old clients with the incorrect fee, their transaction is thus not mined, and falls out the mempool within 24 hours. Since they're using an old client they won't be aware of this unless they delete their mempool and wallet cache and sync up again. Yet the coins are clearly not "lost".


You absolutely can, it's inherently baked into the protocol. There is no tooling for this yet, as could be expected from a cryptocurrency that is a few months old and doesn't have the pleasure of inheriting 5.5 years worth of work on Bitcoin's code and then just being able to add small features to it.

THIS

I think here is little question of a big face-off... monero sure it's already established as an entity, no need to prove this really, I think other coins need to be given a chance too, before we try and have some gladiator fight where the teeth come out - faceoffs are proving themselves to be not so useful here.

oh i wasn't aware there was an instamine on BBR. It's confirmed the dev took these and has the pgpu miner? This is the cause of the price drop or other reasons have contributed to the downturn?

There was no instamine on Boolberry coin (BBR) as evidenced by the coin circulation and difficulty adjustment charts. http://bbr.cryptostats.org/charts (http://bbr.cryptostats.org/charts)

However, it has been confirmed that cbuchner1 had created a private GPU miner and mined a significant quantity of coins when the BBR scratchpad size was much  smaller in the weeks following launch. According to him less than 10,000 coins were held at one point as most of them were sold either above market price in Poloniex or outside the market in P2P bulk exchanges. Presently, the BBR scratchpad is large enough where it would be unprofitable for cbuchner1 to continue mining based on the current market price as he would potentially rent out hundreds of EC2 instances meaning that operational cost was incurred.
 
Most if not all of cbuchner1's coins were sold in last month's pump as he had once stated earlier in mid July that his BBR mining operation will be significantly down sized. The continued decline in price is primarily due to less community adoption and less investor buy support relative to Monero which has more momentum and marketing despite the technical innovation in BBR allowing for a compact blockchain with faster synchronization. Recently an open source OpenCL GPU miner was published further redistributing BBR mining power and coin circulation.

Media slides: http://www.slideshare.net/boolberry/boolberry-reduces-blockchain-bloat (http://www.slideshare.net/boolberry/boolberry-reduces-blockchain-bloat)  http://www.slideshare.net/boolberry/boolberry-solves-cryptonoteflaws-37055246 (http://www.slideshare.net/boolberry/boolberry-solves-cryptonoteflaws-37055246)
Animation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiEmaXwfaCc&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiEmaXwfaCc&feature=youtu.be)

What differences are there between the two coins on a technical level? Meaning... has either dev team added something to the cryptonote code, or done anything to really differentiate them?

I'm still waiting for a dev to figure out a solution to the bloat issues with all cryptonote coins. It wouldn't surprise me to see a dev wander in one day with a new coin, have a fix for the bloat + gui wallet, and overshadow all existing cryptonote coins.

Monero is better.

I think the main reason is that BBR is just a one an show while XMR have a lot of really talanted devs around it.

Okay, and have those devs done anything yet? Besides a straight cryptonote clone, that is?
And it may sound superficial, but I think BBR hurt themselves with their naming. It's hard to take a coin seriously when it has a somewhat ridiculous name.

I don't own either coin, so I don't mean it to sound like I'm favoring one or another based on any holdings. Just curious if either coin really improved on the cryptonote code at all.

BBR is not a 'one man show'

About XMR unfair mining;




Speaks volumes about XMR in my mind.

Are you dense or something? This was code that was part of the original reference CryptoNote code. Had nothing to do with Monero. In fact, it took Monero to fix this "bug".

That is untrue as the performance of the private GPU miner was limited by the increasing scratchpad size which is now effectively much greater in size than nearly a month ago. The ever increasing scratchpad size decreases the performance of the privite gpu miner by each passing day. As I've stated earlier, the BBR difficulty chart clearly shows appropriate adjustment to changes in the hash rate. Therefore, BBR had a fair launch without any instamine yet was exploited early on by a private GPU miner who has since discontinued his mining operation. Note that the long term hashrate graph and difficulty graph are nearly the same. There is also no evidence of botnet mining.

Hashrate graph: http://bbr.cryptostats.org/charts/hashrate
Difficulty graph: http://bbr.cryptostats.org/charts/difficulty

Okay, you guys are really convincing me to invest in these coins.

So far, it sounds like the only improvements added to each coin was the ability for the devs to mine them better.

So in other words the private GPU miner(s) had a huge early advantage that can never be replicated by anyone ever again in the future. Sounds exactly like an instamine to me.

No, are you dense?

Why did such a bug ever make it past the audit stage? unless there was
1) no audit beyond initial copy and paste, (he team lacked the competence to notice such a trivial un-optimization)
2) or it was intentionally left crippled once again in the monero fork.

BBR never had such a intentional crippling.


I can't pretend to be happy about people not on level playing grounds. The news of private GPU miner was a big negative for BBR and will be constantly brought up. I'm not sure it can ever escape from it.
however premine in my mind usually means mining large amount of early blocks and waiting for huge appreciation..
What do you think exactly happened to those early GPU mined coins? they were held gradually losing value until today?
Large amount was dumped and re-distributed filling market orders in regular batches, of course there was costs associated with mining them that needed to be recouped, and the miners in question seeked a guaranteed quick profit. In this sense there is not a single entity who now controls a huge portion purely from advantaged mining as suggested. (buying is another story)


Ten's of thousands of lines of code maybe but are you suggesting to me no eyes were on slow_hash specifically. Come off it.
I don't have to volunteer to audit the base myself in order to criticize others (the dev team who actually launched the damn thing) for not spotting it..
you know yourself this was an incredibly obvious thing to notice.

I guess you were volunteering to audit the tens of thousands of lines of code with no design documentation and no comments?

For that matter, if you are still volunteering to do this, we have openings, since the process is ongoing.

No one knows for sure when they found out.

The file was named "slow-hash.c". The file name itself says what it does. The bytecoin devs had optimized miners from launch until the crippling was found.

The OP never said the subject was about the better investment.

Please enlighten us on the flawed hash.

No, there probably weren't, as part of the initial fork/launch.

There was never any intention to change the proof-of-work as part of forking bytecoin (unlike BBR which did intend to change its proof of work). It was never even discussed. So no reason specifically to look at it. Certainly none of us (meaning the people approaching this from the outside community, as opposed the bytecoin people) had any reason to suspect that it had been (likely) intentionally crippled, as we discovered later. This simply did not happen.

You have to remember at the time this was just yet another coin fork, not anything like the (somewhat) big deal it seems to be today. The thread discussing the original fork was maybe a few dozen messages, and relatively few participants. At the time few even cared much about it.

There were some other things that were changed (penalty-free size, coin supply, etc.) or fixed (coinbase transation mining bug) so those parts of the code were definitely looked at right away, but those had nothing to do with slow_hash.

Here are some technical differences:

From launch Boolberry has had:
-Ability to prune blockchain as explained here: EDIT - Prune is wrong. Reduced block-chain bloat is better.
http://www.slideshare.net/boolberry/boolberry-reduces-blockchain-bloat
-Better anonymity as explained here:
http://www.slideshare.net/boolberry/boolberry-solves-cryptonoteflaws-37055246
-Network Alerts
-Support for aliases


BBR has had an Official GUI wallet for some time. You can download it here:
http://boolberry.com/downloads.html

Interesting... and thanks. When I have time I'll look them over closer.

If it has fixed the bloat issue + GUI, I now wonder why the coin isn't more popular than it is.

Not trying to spread FUD, but DAMN, that BBR graph looks like a serious falling knife to try to catch.

these things take time to get around  :)

the name is silly which probably is why there aren't any 250 btc walls hanging around, but zoidberg is working hard at improving the important parts.

i've happily been taking knives to the face for a few weeks now, 0.5 btc at a time  ;D

ok now I'm excited if there's headway being made with regard to the bloating issue (if we can call it an issue really but anyway..) - hope there's something to report soon!

I wonder if they have given any thought to a name change (yet again)?

It's weird to think that they chose a name that really works against them. It is hard to take a coin seriously when it sounds like a brand of odd cereal.

Keep BBR if they want... just come up with something a bit more professional sounding?

BBR has no chance! Monero to the Moon!

Monero will win this race! For sure.

Monero is the objectively superior coin man, dont get scammed.

I plan to buy 10x as much BBR each time it drops by a factor of 10.  In between those times I will have acquired a much larger number of XMR, however.

This is the most bizarre string of newbie accounts and postings I've ever seen. Is someone trying to set Monero up for a shill accusation?

...or monero is just sucking up newbs like a Spaceballs sized vacuum cleaner.

suck...Suck...SUCK...SUCK!

Maybe they're just fans. Perhaps they saw the naked pictures of me that got posted online. That would explain it.

Ditto. My recent strategy too.  ;D

How many successive drops are you anticipating? macbook will be cheaper than entire market cap on 2 more..

Not sure. I am almost happy to have missed the news around BBR, mainly due to the name when it was announced, to now being able to accumulate BBR  :). Almost a month later I am a bit more informed after completely neglecting it. I don't know if a new chain was needed entirely, but I like the advancements being made by zoidberg with his project.

My dream is tacotime and zoidberg working together, but alas that is not happening it seems  :'(

For me the coins are about developers. I don't pay attention to marketing and gimmicks or world domination of a single coin system.

Evan@Darkcoin, tacotime@Monero and zoidberg@BBR are as cool as they get.

I will switch to base e soon.

Someone bought 100k bbr and an hour later the price was lower than before.  Coin is looking terminally I'll now.