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I wondered how you guys though about lawyers. I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I find that the whole idea of lawyers is bad. Chances are if you have a better lawyer, you have a much better chance of winning, even if you are in the wrong. For example, if you are a criminal, you murder someone, your obviously guilty, but if you have the best lawyer, he/she could twist everything and get you out of it. What do you guys think?

I wondered how you guys though about lawyers. I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I find that the whole idea of lawyers is bad. Chances are if you have a better lawyer, you have a much better chance of winning, even if you are in the wrong. For example, if you are a criminal, you murder someone, your obviously guilty, but if you have the best lawyer, he/she could twist everything and get you out of it. What do you guys think?

Yes, if you're rich you're less likely to go to jail. But who's really to blame? Expensive lawyers? Or the judge/jury, after all, they decide whether guilty or not and what the punishment would be.
The other problem is that poor people don't get the proper representation, they're often advised or pushed to confess even if not guilty.

It's not different from antything else in life. Want good lawyer, you need to pay good money. The more you can afford to pay, the better protection you will get.

dude i seriously hate every lawyer and law maker.

Normal rate for a lawyer = $500 per hr.

I wondered how you guys though about lawyers. I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I find that the whole idea of lawyers is bad. Chances are if you have a better lawyer, you have a much better chance of winning, even if you are in the wrong. For example, if you are a criminal, you murder someone, your obviously guilty, but if you have the best lawyer, he/she could twist everything and get you out of it. What do you guys think?

For most of us a lawyer is a scum sucking leech and we couldn't feel anything if we saw one get hit by a car (since then 2 more would show up like cockroaches).  It's when you get in trouble that a lawyer may sadly become your best friend.

dude i seriously hate every surgeon and doctor.

Normal rate for a surgeon  = $10,000 per hr.

you can't really blame lawyers for the existence of lawyers. as long as society is built such that government authority is founded on laws, lawyers play a necessary role, and there is clear incentive for people to train to become lawyers.

most of the problems today in America at least would be solved if there were no lawyers.  unfortunately it started off as a great respectable job, then much like a lot of stuff the more money that was threw at it, the more and more scum started working on getting law degrees. 

I think we removed lawyers from this country it would be a great day for everyone!

You can however blame lawyers for not being morale and decent citizens and crazed money lunatics.  That is my beef with them, they don't even see a side of the story, they view people as walking paychecks and it is sickening.

the bigger problems lie in the convoluted nature of the legal system. the more complex and contradictory our laws become, the need for proper academic training for lawyers, and an abundance of lawyers to defend the economic viability of businesses, becomes more necessary.

that's the perverse nature of government authority and the law, and the system it creates. you can't claim that lawyers as a whole are immoral -- that's false on it's face. surely, the system is morally bankrupt, but the issue goes far beyond individuals. it creates incentive for people/business to use the law for their benefit (and at the expense of others), and in turn creates the economic incentive for people to pursue legal careers as a result.

dude i seriously hate every surgeon and doctor.

Normal rate for a surgeon  = $10,000 per hr.

Are those US Dollars?  Is so, where the hell is this?

I do internal medicine and I'm probably quitting this year because I can make more money doing photography or IT support than I currently get with medicine - more than 1/2 my patients don't even pay their bills.

No surgeon is making $10K/hr - the hospital is charging you $10K an hour.  A wealthy neurosurgeon might make $2 mil a year busting his ass off for 80-90hrs/wk plus call - that doesn't translate into $10k/hr

On a side note, There was a story in the UK of a robber, Who tried to gain access to a house by climbing on a glass conservatory, The glass gave way and he fell onto a table with a cheese knife cutting his arm.........The robber sued and WON £10K in damages!!

There is the famous story of the burglar who falls through the skylight, falls on a knife and sues the homeowners for leaving the knife out. The actual case involved a teenager who was on the roof of a school and, by the best accounts we can find, was trying to redirect a light because they were trying to play basketball. And while he was on the roof he stepped through the skylight, which had been painted over black. So this may have been a trespasser, but it wasn't a burglar.

Secondly, the incident took place in a school and not a private home. And there had been a previous claim where someone else had stepped through one of these skylights that had been painted black, which made them invisible. So the school knew about it, which was an important part of the case. And there was no knife. So that's an example of the way a story bears some resemblance to the actual events. (The teenager was rendered quadriplegic in the accident and ended up settling with the school.)

This is a quote of Liar Liar w/ Jim Carrey (Jim is Fletcher)
Greta: Mr. Reede, several years ago a friend of mine had a burglar on her roof, a burglar. He fell through the kitchen skylight, landed on a cutting board, on a butcher's knife, cutting his leg. The burglar sued my friend, he sued my friend. And because of guys like you *he won*. My friend had to pay the burglar $6,000. Is that justice?
Fletcher: No!
[Greta looks pleased, but then Fletcher continues]
Fletcher: I'd have got him ten.
[Greta stalks off, appalled]

The movie “Liar Liar” recycled the yarn about the burglar who fell through a skylight and sued the homeowner over his injuries. This widely circulated legend originated in Redding, Calif. A 19-year-old went on the roof of the high school where he had graduated. He fell through a skylight that had been painted over and was left a quadriplegic. After another student had previously fallen through a painted-over skylight at a nearby school, the Redding school contracted with a local concern to board over the skylight to prevent such accidents. Because the Redding school knew of the danger for months without getting the skylight fixed, the school settled with the youth. When President Reagan lamented that a jury had awarded the money to a burglar, he invented the jury and treated a trespasser as a burglar.

This is a quote of Liar Liar w/ Jim Carrey (Jim is Fletcher)
Greta: Mr. Reede, several years ago a friend of mine had a burglar on her roof, a burglar. He fell through the kitchen skylight, landed on a cutting board, on a butcher's knife, cutting his leg. The burglar sued my friend, he sued my friend. And because of guys like you *he won*. My friend had to pay the burglar $6,000. Is that justice?
Fletcher: No!
[Greta looks pleased, but then Fletcher continues]
Fletcher: I'd have got him ten.
[Greta stalks off, appalled]

It was a short article in the papers quite a few years ago, It was not a kitchen sky-lite, It was a conservatory, It was not his leg, It was his arm, It was not a butchers knife, It was a cheese knife.

What is the alternative your to lawyers? Do you like kangaroo courts?

Why not have both parties involved tell their side of the story, and the jury makes a decision based on what they said? 

What about third party witnesses? And the order of said witnesses?

Well if both parties tell their side of the story, and a 3rd party witnessed the event in question....or anything, call them up.

I don't think we need lawyers at all. 

What about a murder or something similar? We only have one side of the story vs the police investigator which are technically a 3rd party?

Your whole "not having legal representation" idealism is failing by the second.

So why not have the police investigator represent the murder victim?  Don't see anything wrong with that...

The alternative is for lawyers to actually get paid a flat rate per case no matter what or become morale human beings.

Right, because lawyers wouldn't take simple cases to finish a bunch of cases really quickly.

Lawyers exist for a reason just like laws exist. There's a lot of laws, and they're confusing. There's a reason they're confusing.

You honestly can't tell me the world wouldn't be a better place today if there were no lawyers.  People are constantly getting in lawsuits because they are trying to get rich.  Lawyers gladly take the case and sometimes they win. 

Just some of the cases that make you sick

Lady spills coffee on self, gets 5 million dollars

Judge gets angry at a mom and pop dry cleaning store, sues them for 67 million because their sign said "Satisfaction guaranteed"  Mom and Pop lose 2 of there stores in order to pay for the defense-this shouldn't have ever gone to court, but lawyers do crazy things

A guy named Mark Guthrie gets sued by the company he works for because they made a salary error in his favor, and he didn't want to pay taxes on their error.

Boys trespass on private property, get burned by a wire, win 24 million dollars

These are just some of the crazy cases that should never have happened, but.....Lawyers!

You honestly can't tell me the world wouldn't be a better place today if there were no lawyers.  People are constantly getting in lawsuits because they are trying to get rich.  Lawyers gladly take the case and sometimes they win.  

Just some of the cases that make you sick

Lady spills coffee on self, gets 5 million dollars

Judge gets angry at a mom and pop dry cleaning store, sues them for 67 million because their sign said "Satisfaction guaranteed"  Mom and Pop lose 2 of there stores in order to pay for the defense-this shouldn't have ever gone to court, but lawyers do crazy things

A guy named Mark Guthrie gets sued by the company he works for because they made a salary error in his favor, and he didn't want to pay taxes on their error.

Boys trespass on private property, get burned by a wire, win 24 million dollars

These are just some of the crazy cases that should never have happened, but.....Lawyers!

Not to address your larger point, but if the "coffee case" you mentioned was the following, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants), the lady actually got third degree burns from that, and had to be hospitalized for a week. And the final amount she was awarded ended up being less than $600000. :P

Still she should have got 0 dollars.  Everyone knows Coffee is hot, when you see that steam coming off it, when you taste it...Obviously its hot...

If I go to a restaurant and touch a fire, can I sue them for 3rd degree burns, it didn't say caution, fire is hot anywhere?

Actually you could sue and that's why businesses have to have umbrella coverage.  People will run in from the rain, shake their umbrella on the floor, slip and sue.

I have umbrella coverage for my house because I have a nice granite and marble walkway to the front door.  If somebody slips on that while trying to leave some solicitation on my door I can and probably will get sued.  Is it ethical and moral - not in my book.  But the lawyer would say "clearly the homeowner should have known better than to make such an inviting walkway to the front door so hazardous".

Ahh trial lawyers - giving Satan a challenge in the race for the most evil creature