Lawyers

[leex1528]

the bigger problems lie in the convoluted nature of the legal system. the more complex and contradictory our laws become, the need for proper academic training for lawyers, and an abundance of lawyers to defend the economic viability of businesses, becomes more necessary.

The problem though is the whole system is supposedly be about Morales and Truth.  Then they make these idiotic laws(yes that is not the lawyers)  that can be twisted around into a Guilty person getting away with something.  That is what I am finding wrong with lawyers.

that's the perverse nature of government authority and the law, and the system it creates. you can't claim that lawyers as a whole are immoral -- that's false on it's face. surely, the system is morally bankrupt, but the issue goes far beyond individuals. it creates incentive for people/business to use the law for their benefit (and at the expense of others), and in turn creates the economic incentive for people to pursue legal careers as a result.

I am sure there are moral lawyers out there.  But answer me this, do you think there are more greedy ones than moral?  Not many other professions have that linked to it...

[DrG]

dude i seriously hate every lawyer and law maker.

Normal rate for a lawyer = $500 per hr.

dude i seriously hate every surgeon and doctor.

Normal rate for a surgeon  = $10,000 per hr.

Are those US Dollars?  Is so, where the hell is this?

I do internal medicine and I'm probably quitting this year because I can make more money doing photography or IT support than I currently get with medicine - more than 1/2 my patients don't even pay their bills.

No surgeon is making $10K/hr - the hospital is charging you $10K an hour.  A wealthy neurosurgeon might make $2 mil a year busting his ass off for 80-90hrs/wk plus call - that doesn't translate into $10k/hr

[squall1066]

Well, Lawyers and bitcoin don't mix, Bitcoin is about standing away from statutes and acts and other government made up crimes, Designed to squeeze every bit of money back into their pockets, Weather you win or loose, The money goes to the courts.

I am currently studying "freeman law" or "laymen's law" It's scary how much control we have over our selves.

On a side note, There was a story in the UK of a robber, Who tried to gain access to a house by climbing on a glass conservatory, The glass gave way and he fell onto a table with a cheese knife cutting his arm.........The robber sued and WON £10K in damages!!

This is the real world we live in with lawyers.

[u9y42]

dude i seriously hate every lawyer and law maker.

Normal rate for a lawyer = $500 per hr.

dude i seriously hate every surgeon and doctor.

Normal rate for a surgeon  = $10,000 per hr.

Are those US Dollars?  Is so, where the hell is this?

I do internal medicine and I'm probably quitting this year because I can make more money doing photography or IT support than I currently get with medicine - more than 1/2 my patients don't even pay their bills.

No surgeon is making $10K/hr - the hospital is charging you $10K an hour.  A wealthy neurosurgeon might make $2 mil a year busting his ass off for 80-90hrs/wk plus call - that doesn't translate into $10k/hr

I don't think that was his point - he could have said they made $1000 or $1000000 per hour. He was criticizing dumbdragon for judging lawyers merely based on their pay rate, without any further considerations. Besides, nobody really hates doctors/surgeons (I think ).

[murraypaul]

On a side note, There was a story in the UK of a robber, Who tried to gain access to a house by climbing on a glass conservatory, The glass gave way and he fell onto a table with a cheese knife cutting his arm.........The robber sued and WON £10K in damages!!

Evidence for this?

Edit: This particular fable seems to have been circulating for around 30 years.

http://www.tortdeform.com/archives/2006/09/book_review_a_tort_protectors.html

There is the famous story of the burglar who falls through the skylight, falls on a knife and sues the homeowners for leaving the knife out. The actual case involved a teenager who was on the roof of a school and, by the best accounts we can find, was trying to redirect a light because they were trying to play basketball. And while he was on the roof he stepped through the skylight, which had been painted over black. So this may have been a trespasser, but it wasn't a burglar.

Secondly, the incident took place in a school and not a private home. And there had been a previous claim where someone else had stepped through one of these skylights that had been painted black, which made them invisible. So the school knew about it, which was an important part of the case. And there was no knife. So that's an example of the way a story bears some resemblance to the actual events. (The teenager was rendered quadriplegic in the accident and ended up settling with the school.)

You probably saw it in the movie Liar, Liar:

This is a quote of Liar Liar w/ Jim Carrey (Jim is Fletcher)
Greta: Mr. Reede, several years ago a friend of mine had a burglar on her roof, a burglar. He fell through the kitchen skylight, landed on a cutting board, on a butcher's knife, cutting his leg. The burglar sued my friend, he sued my friend. And because of guys like you *he won*. My friend had to pay the burglar $6,000. Is that justice?
Fletcher: No!
[Greta looks pleased, but then Fletcher continues]
Fletcher: I'd have got him ten.
[Greta stalks off, appalled]

The movie “Liar Liar” recycled the yarn about the burglar who fell through a skylight and sued the homeowner over his injuries. This widely circulated legend originated in Redding, Calif. A 19-year-old went on the roof of the high school where he had graduated. He fell through a skylight that had been painted over and was left a quadriplegic. After another student had previously fallen through a painted-over skylight at a nearby school, the Redding school contracted with a local concern to board over the skylight to prevent such accidents. Because the Redding school knew of the danger for months without getting the skylight fixed, the school settled with the youth. When President Reagan lamented that a jury had awarded the money to a burglar, he invented the jury and treated a trespasser as a burglar.

[newflesh]

Depends on the type of lawyer in my opinion. Human rights lawyers I see as generally positive...but then you have the parasites who defend war criminals / corporations etc. Don't think you can tar them all with the same brush.

[squall1066]

You probably saw it in the movie Liar, Liar:

This is a quote of Liar Liar w/ Jim Carrey (Jim is Fletcher)
Greta: Mr. Reede, several years ago a friend of mine had a burglar on her roof, a burglar. He fell through the kitchen skylight, landed on a cutting board, on a butcher's knife, cutting his leg. The burglar sued my friend, he sued my friend. And because of guys like you *he won*. My friend had to pay the burglar $6,000. Is that justice?
Fletcher: No!
[Greta looks pleased, but then Fletcher continues]
Fletcher: I'd have got him ten.
[Greta stalks off, appalled]

It was a short article in the papers quite a few years ago, It was not a kitchen sky-lite, It was a conservatory, It was not his leg, It was his arm, It was not a butchers knife, It was a cheese knife.

Having a quick scour of the net, I see lots of UK law blunders, But not this one, I am sure I did not imagine it  Anyone else from the UK remember this one?

[dKingston]

What is the alternative your to lawyers? Do you like kangaroo courts?

[murraypaul]

It was a short article in the papers quite a few years ago, It was not a kitchen sky-lite, It was a conservatory, It was not his leg, It was his arm, It was not a butchers knife, It was a cheese knife.

Exactly the sort of things which get mutated as urban legends spread.

[leex1528]

What is the alternative your to lawyers? Do you like kangaroo courts?

Why not have both parties involved tell their side of the story, and the jury makes a decision based on what they said? 

[bluefirecorp]

What is the alternative your to lawyers? Do you like kangaroo courts?

Why not have both parties involved tell their side of the story, and the jury makes a decision based on what they said? 

What about third party witnesses? And the order of said witnesses?

[leex1528]

What about third party witnesses? And the order of said witnesses?

Well if both parties tell their side of the story, and a 3rd party witnessed the event in question....or anything, call them up.

I don't think we need lawyers at all. 

[bluefirecorp]

What about third party witnesses? And the order of said witnesses?

Well if both parties tell their side of the story, and a 3rd party witnessed the event in question....or anything, call them up.

I don't think we need lawyers at all. 

What about a murder or something similar? We only have one side of the story vs the police investigator which are technically a 3rd party?

Your whole "not having legal representation" idealism is failing by the second.

[leex1528]

What about a murder or something similar? We only have one side of the story vs the police investigator which are technically a 3rd party?

Your whole "not having legal representation" idealism is failing by the second.

So why not have the police investigator represent the murder victim?  Don't see anything wrong with that...

The alternative is for lawyers to actually get paid a flat rate per case no matter what or become morale human beings.

[bluefirecorp]

What about a murder or something similar? We only have one side of the story vs the police investigator which are technically a 3rd party?

Your whole "not having legal representation" idealism is failing by the second.

So why not have the police investigator represent the murder victim?  Don't see anything wrong with that...

The alternative is for lawyers to actually get paid a flat rate per case no matter what or become morale human beings.

Right, because lawyers wouldn't take simple cases to finish a bunch of cases really quickly.

Lawyers exist for a reason just like laws exist. There's a lot of laws, and they're confusing. There's a reason they're confusing.

[Baitty]

Lawyers are needed they know enough to try and protect their client.

[leex1528]

Right, because lawyers wouldn't take simple cases to finish a bunch of cases really quickly.

Lawyers exist for a reason just like laws exist. There's a lot of laws, and they're confusing. There's a reason they're confusing.

You honestly can't tell me the world wouldn't be a better place today if there were no lawyers.  People are constantly getting in lawsuits because they are trying to get rich.  Lawyers gladly take the case and sometimes they win. 

Just some of the cases that make you sick

Lady spills coffee on self, gets 5 million dollars

Judge gets angry at a mom and pop dry cleaning store, sues them for 67 million because their sign said "Satisfaction guaranteed"  Mom and Pop lose 2 of there stores in order to pay for the defense-this shouldn't have ever gone to court, but lawyers do crazy things

A guy named Mark Guthrie gets sued by the company he works for because they made a salary error in his favor, and he didn't want to pay taxes on their error.

Boys trespass on private property, get burned by a wire, win 24 million dollars

These are just some of the crazy cases that should never have happened, but.....Lawyers!

[williamj2543]

Right, because lawyers wouldn't take simple cases to finish a bunch of cases really quickly.

Lawyers exist for a reason just like laws exist. There's a lot of laws, and they're confusing. There's a reason they're confusing.

You honestly can't tell me the world wouldn't be a better place today if there were no lawyers.  People are constantly getting in lawsuits because they are trying to get rich.  Lawyers gladly take the case and sometimes they win. 

Just some of the cases that make you sick

Lady spills coffee on self, gets 5 million dollars

Judge gets angry at a mom and pop dry cleaning store, sues them for 67 million because their sign said "Satisfaction guaranteed"  Mom and Pop lose 2 of there stores in order to pay for the defense-this shouldn't have ever gone to court, but lawyers do crazy things

A guy named Mark Guthrie gets sued by the company he works for because they made a salary error in his favor, and he didn't want to pay taxes on their error.

Boys trespass on private property, get burned by a wire, win 24 million dollars

These are just some of the crazy cases that should never have happened, but.....Lawyers!

Exactly, lawyers just twist it to have a chance of the guilty person, to become innocent, even though the guilty person is obviously guilty, the lawyers will find loopholes to make the bad people win 

[u9y42]

Right, because lawyers wouldn't take simple cases to finish a bunch of cases really quickly.

Lawyers exist for a reason just like laws exist. There's a lot of laws, and they're confusing. There's a reason they're confusing.

You honestly can't tell me the world wouldn't be a better place today if there were no lawyers.  People are constantly getting in lawsuits because they are trying to get rich.  Lawyers gladly take the case and sometimes they win.  

Just some of the cases that make you sick

Lady spills coffee on self, gets 5 million dollars

Judge gets angry at a mom and pop dry cleaning store, sues them for 67 million because their sign said "Satisfaction guaranteed"  Mom and Pop lose 2 of there stores in order to pay for the defense-this shouldn't have ever gone to court, but lawyers do crazy things

A guy named Mark Guthrie gets sued by the company he works for because they made a salary error in his favor, and he didn't want to pay taxes on their error.

Boys trespass on private property, get burned by a wire, win 24 million dollars

These are just some of the crazy cases that should never have happened, but.....Lawyers!

Not to address your larger point, but if the "coffee case" you mentioned was the following, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants, the lady actually got third degree burns from that, and had to be hospitalized for a week. And the final amount she was awarded ended up being less than $600000.

[Candystripes]

Lawyers are some of the worst people I know. I wish there was no such thing as lawyers in this world.