Bitcoin Forum

Curious how much of an impact the mining community will have on the recent AM news


If this number is accurate around 25 to 30% will be AM and the as previously held Ghash  percentage will be lowered avoiding that 50% risk :P
Thoughts on this and the future hashrate.

Documented history of AM's hashrate for the people who forget those things or weren't around back then.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkPdXsQFT-vIdHRVUjQ5Ql9BQWR6OENLMkhyUktUblE#gid=9

And upcoming interview with Friedcat

At this point the larger players can buy up huge chunks of new ASICS. It's difficult for anyone to make a run at one of the larger mining operations for a number of reasons.

Simply getting the datacenter and other pieces setup are non-trivial for a large operation.

ASIC Miner no longer has the first to market advantage, and no matter what they release, competitors have plenty of sources like BitFury to get as many ASICS as they can afford.

I just don't see someone taking over one of the larger players, even FriedCat

That is a lot of network percentage for one company, how many % other big players have ?

Replying here since this is a dedicated thread.


You should read again their last financial statement. They don't have that much money lying around and neither the facilities. Also it doesn't make any sense to do it right now when they could've started 3 months ago. They could mine with at least 20% of their chips and wait for their 80% to get sold. After 2 months of low sales they could bump the mine to 40% of the chips and still have 60% for sale. Doing it right now seems like a desperate attempt to salvage something out of them.

Last I checked they had 60PH which was completely paid for.

as my late father in law used to say "we shall see what we shall see"

I would welcome the competition since i believe it will drive up the price of BTC.

The mining community need coins to move up in price not drift about in the 560-660 usd range.

The mining community needs more individual miners who are prone to holding thier BTC.  Instead, what we have is a large share of corporate mines who likely have no intention of holding coins and continually sell them.

That's only the chips, but AM needs money for the rest of the components in order to start hashing. Also having cheap electricity available and high power capacity doesn't mean anything. It still takes some money to build a functional DC (need wiring, cabinets, cooling etc).

jimmothy how much $/GH do you think AM needs to start hashing considering they only have the chips right now?

AM owned 30% of the network with a large portion of their hashrate running out of what looked like a chicken shed...... it was mining at it's best.

I know, but owning 30% of a small network is easy. Doing it right now seems a much harder job. They will need a lot of chicken sheds for that and they don't come for free. If AM claims they are self-mining since July they should post the mining address so that everyone can see their speed, but that won't happen very soon because they are just too small. If they owned at least 20 PH right now they would've bragged about it in order to boost the shares price.

Friedcat has immersion cooling I would say they have one of the best chicken sheds you can get.
How hard would it be to put a new board in based on this video when they come online.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZavKweMrP4

Operational October 2013.

DataTank Container Data Center available in Q2 2014. Immersion-2 is an immersion cooling platform for 3M™ Novec™ Engineered Fluids such as Novec 7000 and Novec 649. By utilizing passive 2-phase immersion cooling in an open bath design, customers benefit from massively reduced cooling energy bill, lower acquisition costs, space savings, and a truly universal and durable system.

http://www.allied-control.com/immersi...

Location: Hong Kong
Client: ASICMiner
Completion: Oct 2013

From the Datatank thread
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=655464.msg7360111#msg7360111



BE200 Test not like anyone looks at these things :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhOHJ96wBYg

I am aware of their immersion cooling setup, but that only has 500kW. For 60PH they need 60MW! Numbers don't lie.

As for the DataTank Containers well as previously said I don't think that they have the money in order to house 60PH. Not even for 30PH. DataTanks are damn expensive to build/deploy and AM is out of money.

why so negative all the time? Do you own shares in AM?
Or is it just the way spoondoolies, worst name ever, have asked you to troll, shill and spam?

I haven't been monitoring AM's financial status, but are you saying that AM is in dire financial straights and has to try to make salvage attempt with their chips?  The company that was 1/3 of the network last year at this time?

I'm trying to be realistic and not a dreamer like people holding shares.  Feel free to correct me with numbers, not personal attacks.

How much money do you think are needed to deploy the 60PH while having only the chips in hand. What are the costs per GH needed for this deployment? I already said that with a conservative 0.5$/GH (chips excluded) they need 30M$. They don't have that kind of money right now and money don't grow in trees.


Well please go and take a look at their last financial report then. It should take you a maximum of 15 mins to find it and read it. Having 1/3 of the network last year means absolutely nothing right now and past performance doesn't mean that they will get 1/3 of the network this or next year. It's was much much easier to own 1/3 of the network last year when the total hashrate was low, but it's much harder now with the total network so big.

friedcat said that they are self-mining since mid July. Why doesn't he post the live hashing speed?

the money for setup costs(chips are payed for) comes from the chip sales and HW sales, same as every other asic manufacturer that sells hardware and setups a large mine..... sell enough your own is cheap/free, that is the aim of the resale game after all is it not?

Oh it was not a personal attack, i was just being realistic based on the way you act and portray yourself in your precious spondoolies competitors forum threads. call it an observational statement if you would like, not an attack.

edit: friedcat is busy preparing for a big meeting in a few days time, he sadly probably has very little time to communicate with the forums at the moment and i am sure much will be announced then..... i wish spoondoolies-tech would spend less time hanging out on the forums gossiping about their competitors and more time meeting their production/power specs. Now run along and sell some more spondoolies magic internet money printing machines ....

Sorry but what HW sales? AM didn't sell any miner with their gen3 chips. I am aware that they intend to do that, but that will take some time which means that self mining will start later which means lower revenues. And for the chip sales didn't friedcat announced that sales weren't so good? Can't be a lot of money with sales being so low. And the sales that went through were very close to their cost so not much revenue there either. I'm guessing that the money they made from the chip sales will go into making working miners for selling, not into the self mining farms. I may be wrong here, but the idea is that AM doesn't have 30M$ available.

I am not supporting SP-Tech here. If I did it in in the past on other threads it doesn't mean that I need to be reminded every time I post my opinions about other manufacturers. Stop living in the past and judge my present actions. I thought we are discussing the recent AM news about their self mining farms. Let's stick to the topic.

Going back to the topic why not answer to my previous questions? I will repost them in case you missed them

How much money do you think are needed to deploy the 60PH while having only the chips in hand? What's your personal view on the costs per GH needed for this deployment?

I have no time for shills or past shills. you made your bed by acting the way you did, now lay in it. jog on back to your spondoolie masters.....

What's your personal view on the costs per GH needed for AM self mining deployment?

i did look at them dearly ^^

I went from the viewcount your 1 of 77 people ^_^
Good job

Well from the Salon looks like I can adjust it to 15 to 20% for the Second Half of 2014

We are back to where we started. 20% out of 160PH=32PH. Unless AM wins the lottery they will not deploy that amount of hashpower this year.

well at least they didnt pre-odered underperforming & overconsuming delayed group buys from SPT.  :P

(now i get it why you are so stressed about how or when FC will make some big move - ROI is a bitch ^^)

First of all there is nothing being delayed. Why spread lies? My July SP30 was shipped by SP-Tech on 30 July. As for all the August orders since it's just 3rd August I don't see how can they be delayed. Nobody complained about any delay so stop spreading lies.

I am not stressed at all about FC. I am just stating my opinion. Actually I'm quite relaxed about the announcement because I know that AM doesn't have 30M$ for their big deployment so there is nothing to worry about.

Please tell me what do you think that is the deployment cost per Gh for AM excluding chips that are already paid.

 cheaper per GH than you paid    :o

Let's say it's $0.5/GH/s as you said before. AM surely sold some more chips since financial report was published. Was it enough to deploy all 32PH/s? Maybe. Maybe not. Friedcat says it was enough. I am gonna trust him for now, he delivered few times before

To get 20% of the network you have to add 25% to the existing network, while getting 15% requires adding 17.6%. If we assume only 5% expansion per 2016 blocks from everyone else (which is way below what we're seeing) then by the end of September (mid-way through H2 2014) that puts the rest of the network at close to 28% higher than it is now (5 difficulty changes - one's due pretty soon). That puts everyone else at somewhere a little higher than 180 PH/s. The numbers are approximately 32 (15%) to 45 (20%) PH/s.

The 5% expansion rate seems unreasonably optimistic though. If we assume it's 8% then the baseline network goes up to by almost 47%. That would put the baseline at closer to 206 PH/s. Now to hit 15% of the network we'd need to add just over 36 PH/s, while 20% would now require 52 PH/s.

If I was an AM investor, I'd hope for the best too. Fortunately I am not.

Your average bystander is thinking WTF?!

They don't seem like they are capable of producing competitive, efficient chips. Seriously, this latest chip is about 6 months too late.

FC just stated in the same self mining announcement that sales aren't so great. AM sold some chips but at a very low profit so they can get mining revenues from the franchise operations. Also don't forget that AM needs money for gen4 development.

At 0.5$/GH/s that 32PH is equal to 16M$ needed for deployment only. Do you think AM gathered 16M$ from chip sales? Personally I don't think so and considering that they need ~3M$-5M$ for gen4 the money just don't seem enough for all the plans. Feel free to correct me, but with numbers and reasons, not with personal attacks.

No numbers, the point being we dont know squat about how much he really produced, sold, franchised, etc.. FC knows better and just need time to implement it all. Even rockxie said time was THE critical factor in his latest update - and thats also why i think FC just wont come by here more often to cuddle shareholders until the work is done and everything runs smoothly (whilst being too late for competition to see what hit them). Information will become available when it does. Welcome in Bitcoin's business world.

As opposed to most manufacturers, FC's approach has proven to be lean if not agile. He is constantly adjusting to a very fast moving new industry, dodging several setbacks (gen2, gen3 low?! sales..), and has no time to waste on bitcointalk as he used to, although i would surely enjoy some weekly updates..

But he wont answer questions for which he is not 100% sure. And thats fine for me. Other manufacturers can keep their false promises.

Thus, if he is aiming 15-20% of global hashrate by the end of 2014, i bet he has done the maths himself before saying anything about it.

(And for a skinny 20 y-o chinese genius that was the very first mover in fuck*ng Bitcoin ASIC mining industry, I would tend to trust him on that to..  ;D I mean, the company is litterally named ASICMINER.. Unlike any other greedy manufacturer, FC has done it by the Bitcoin Book so far, IPOed on on a creepy forum under the pseudonymous Friedcat, crowdsourcing its designs.. The guy is one of Bitcoin's freaking gurus (if not Satoshi's very only child :o), i surely just cant believe it's all meant to fade away or that it will somehow fail... If AM fails, so does Bitcoin! :D)

edit: and remember he is one of the very few that hasnt gone with any preorder scheme/scam. That should also account for a little bit more patience from us lucky shareholders/customers.. After all, we're in bitcoin for the long haul aren't we? Well there ya go..

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=721699.0

Was checking out the Salon stuff so I'll put it here as well the bittell interview is still pending I believe didn't see it out yet.
And in regards to above think its 15 to 20% in addition to the hash added although that is worth clarifying including present hash or including added hash on top of that to determine network percentages.

Other AM Related Stuff include Garden running out of chips/miners and needing to order more and rockxies speech which was already mentioned.


So that's good news for AM dividends bitgarden units selling out == time for another new batch.

Rockxies Speech
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=632947.msg8159697#msg8159697

@ Roadstress guess this is the closest I can get on this


ASICMiner mining address
https://blockchain.info/address/1HtUGfbDcMzTeHWx2Dbgnhc6kYnj1Hp24i

In historical terms
Total Received   $ 81,279,481.63 USD Using Blockchain at that conversion rate

81,279,481.63/400,000 Shares = $203.198704085/Share USD
$203.198704085/Share USD * 236,038 Shares = $47,962,615.71

But that is a historical gross income I am not sure how much remains after all their development costs /Conversion rates
But this is just from the mining side not including franchising retail sales and other revenue streams that they might have.

Anyways AM/Bitfountain has cash they are still sitting on Nearly 50,000 Bitcoins I presume the remainder is the capital they converted for business operations and the sort.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtqphFCP56ordGVCakJxSU90MlB4MlBkZENya25pS2c#gid=9
https://blockchain.info/address/1Lu6j7umY8qVqvZzdojDBhHBAAyfcDUfGE 0 BTC (94415 Shares)
https://blockchain.info/address/15h6A2a3D31vRviBDdSpvhLtYJq3aePhdW 36,636.85533247 BTC (94415 Shares)
https://blockchain.info/address/1BnkEt2ceoVhnQVrqeAzigcroQ6MVyxFey 10,428.67775014 BTC (47208 Shares)

Total Bitcoins = 47065.53283387 BTC = 236,038 Shares

2/3 Bitcoin addresses kept most of the balance in their address the other 1 moved it around but not sure what the other addresses go to so that's as far as that analysis goes.

Let's talk with numbers out of the latest financial statement, not with historical terms with one single exchange rate.

Here's the last one for speculating on a lot happens in three months before all the news so May 28 ---> August 5th almost a quarter missing.

Those are held Bitcoins roadstress they still have access to them as far as I know.
That said your right best work from the financial statements and figure it out from there.