Bitcoin Forum

The Alternate cryptocurrencies forum is a mess. Anyone who denies that is an idiot, but at least we can try and get some resemblance of a serious discussion thread. I really admire rpietila's Altcoin Observer (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=624223.0) and I don't see why this can't be applied to a thread for general Altcoin Discussion and News, rather than just the market/prices. The Altcoin Observer does contain some general discussion about Altcoins but as a whole I feel like it is more of an overview on what to invest in rather than a global Altcoin discussion. It also does obviously contain some level of bias due to that (which is good for that thread due to it's subject, obviously, but would not be good in this thread if I showed bias).

This thread will be a project to see if we can get some quality Altcoin discussion going. Here are some examples of what could be posted:

• Overview of technology offered by an Altcoin - is it good, bad, unique, or a copycat?
• Price predictions (on a lesser scale than the Altcoin Observer, and also with no shill spam such as "DOGE GOING TO THE MOON!!!!". All predictions need evidence)
• Updates to an altcoin (may only be posted ONCE. A repeated post which only says "this altcoin just got this" a second time will be deleted. A repeat post must have a detailed overview of what it means).
• Recent major issues that arose with an altcoin (premine discovered, bounty fund dumped, etc. Must have 100% positive evidence or it will be deleted. No FUDing with some crap evidence you found on a FUD thread).

Here are my rules, too.

• If I delete something it was for a good reason. Whining about it will result in a thread ban. Posting past a thread ban on a self-moderated thread can get you banned from the forums. Need proof? This is a PM I had from a global mod:
  
  Quote from: SaltySpitoon on June 28, 2014, 03:11:55 AM
  [...] if you have a self moderated thread, and someone continues to post after you delete their comments repeatedly, you may verbally tell them that they are no longer allowed to post in your thread, if you tell them and they continue, they will be banned. [...]
  
• No FUDing (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt). This means posting insults or bad things about an Altcoin without 100% amazing proof that can not really be disputed. Saying something like "x coin is going to crash, SELL SELL SELL" is FUD and will be deleted on sight.
• No shilling. This means hyping a coin with no hard evidence behind it (see above), sometimes while insulting coins that are "rivals" to the coin you are hyping. Sure, if something really great happened to the coin, like you donated a few thousand dollars to a charity, post it. But only with undeniable proof. Else it will be deleted on sight. And like I said above, only once, after that if you're going to continue talking about what happened to x coin you need to give an overview on what it now means for the coin.
• No trolling. This covers anything which is just there to piss people off, insult people, etc. Instant thread ban.
• I don't care what your signature says. It's the substance in your post that matters.
• If you're going to quote a large post (>=300 words) then you need to cut out some parts to reduce it to under 300 words. Use [...] to show where you cut out parts of the text.
• I may add any rules to this at any time and I reserve the right to delete posts or thread ban for any reason at any time too.

I will try to stay mostly out of discussions on this thread, but I may chip in on things such as new technology offered by an Altcoin every once in a while. For the most part, if I do have views (like/dislike) for an Altcoin, they will be kept out of this thread.

If I delete your post 3 times in a 2 week period, you'll be thread banned. I'll keep track. Let's see how this goes, eh?

...

It begins.  :P

You must like to stay busy, DiamondCardz. Good luck.

I guess he just couldn't help himself, eh? We will see how it goes.

I will support this of course, reserve this spot.

Ok, I'll take the opportunity to point everyone to Riecoin. riecoin.org (http://riecoin.org) - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=446703.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=446703.0)
It's unique technology is good: it solves the problems primecoin has with pooled mining and works on a more interesting math problem.
We have stratum pool server and minig code and are looking for more pools.

The general consensus as stated several times by Theymos and the rest of the global mods is that you should take it a step further by establishing your forum.

A great first start though.


~BCX~

I would, but previous experience and observance shows me that everyone says they want an altcoin forum, but when one shows up, they just ignore it. Those early adopters have to come from somewhere. The same thing happened when I made an alternate bitcoin forum (which eventually shut down, it actually still has some hosting, it's just un-used).

My personal frustration that has seriously made me wonder if ai want to be involved in alt coins anymore is the case of Qora. A complete new code that has shown itself to be superior to NXT technically on many levels is completely overlooked because it's marketing is completely lacking. I personally am not technical so you have to go research to know in detail why, I want to put more substance but I'm working secondhand from others I respect. Anyway, I've come to the conclusion that marketing is all that matters and anticipation and convincing of some future time a coin is valuable.

Newsflash, Bitcoin is the only coin that is going to be accepted in the mainstream we are just developing the system that people will use to hold a bitcoin and other assets. Can you imagine as the mainstream gets familiar with Bitcoin then they are told about even the quality coins like Darkcoin and Litecoin, people will just say this is all a joke we can't put our money in this. But people don't care about reality they want to believe in yet another dumb coin with dumb promises.


All I want is a wallet that in a user friendly way can hold my assets, ie Bitcoin, Fiat, precious metals and maybe a few other exotic assets. A bunch of second gen coins can do this now, we don't need any more, it's like having a hundred Facebooks to choose from.

I think the real issue with Alts is that people view features as the new way to get rich like the early bitcoiners did.  The problem is that the rise creates wealth seekers and if/when the coin isn't successful they all lose their money.  Or people just interested in using it for it's features lose money.  It's more like creating a penny stock with a prospectus that is probably overtly misleading (the ones that are short term successful usually are anyway) in order to sell it to shareholders.

Then the dumpers move on to something that's next.  The altcoin scene is much more like stocks trying to sell you on bitcoins future when absolutely no coin has bitcoins future.  Bitcoin already solved the problem and jumping to a new currency renders an old currency worthless.  And the entire system isn't sustainable.  The champions for alt coins are more people who are refining their art of jumping out of pennystockcoins at the peak of the hype.  They thrive and survive off of the insanity that renders all alts useless for long term adoption.

That said I do believe there is room for one anon coin and a smart blockchain.  Now that bitcoin is mainstream and the gov is paying attention to the blockchain.  Many of bitcoins original uses will continue to be threatened.

I also believe that smart coin & anon coin winner will push litecoin out over the next year.  There won't be enough room for it.  I'm not sure who the anon & smart blockchain winner will be yet ...

Soon any coin will be anonymous of they want it. It will be a given that a coin is anonymous.


I still see a battle among 'systems' rather than 'coins'. It will all come down to market share once crypto goes mainstream. One person might use to NXT to hold their assets and another might use NEM or Qora. They won't compete because they will ultimately do the same things. But the Black Swan that no one is talking about is if a big name walks into crypto later. It's game over if Apple or Google produce a wallet that can hold digital assets. I believe it's inevitable. Hopefully not though cause they would not let go of centralised access if they can, maybe even convincing people it's not safe if they cant access the blockchain.

This point is something I really agree with. People will be people and if they see a possible way to get rich they will take it. That's partially why Altcoin IPO scams are so successful in conning people out of their hard earned BTC.

That's a risk I used to worry about near the end of last year - but I expected a big fiat bank to dive in. Silly me...

if bytemasters dpos holds what it promises it will be a minimal step for big players to clone this system, probably even with the promise to back it.


despites dpos, can we get a serious discussion on btsx?

questions:
I see a huge potential in using a crypto as a collateral - am I the only one :D ?
could a lending into existence; and use btc as collateral be implemented into btc?
what is your biggest concern regarding the pegging mechanism of btsx? Mine is not the black swan (it is obviously not a black swan - it is much more "probable") event; it is much more the incentive for the ask side to create BitUsd...
Are there other "historical" tries to create a peeging mechanism to lend something into existence in the altcoin history?


 

I think it is inevitable that a very large name will eventually get into crypto. However, that doesn't spell centralization and the destruction of everything that crypto stands for.

I think you have rather got it around the wrong way - :

- There are not that many people in the crypto market and lots of puppet account.

- Other forums are already successful Reddit has taken up some slack, our own forum had a bunch of real people there for a time but its about demographics. 

- some people want to troll a forum most others would rather use Twitter or other useful type media.


however this forum is still useful to see what the latest scam or meme is, also as developers still think its real they come here and release useful stuff, I guess that's what your topic is about correct?

Etherum?

True...a fiat bank may find that they've take in the proverbial Trojan Horse. But maybe my worries are needless. Any big organization will most likely move at Etherium speed, if not slower. Things move very quickly around here, and that's enough to make a prudent old-fashioned kind of senior manager downcheck the idea. "What if these guys are already ahead of us once we're ready to go? Wouldn't that mean that all the tme and shareholders' money we sunk into this gizmo would have to be written off?"

Not hard earned but stepped on by a chance. Bitcoin is a fenomena that made lot of stupid people really rich. So they just go and spend their bitcoins like they have no fiat value (they don't see the connection).

In my opinion altcoin needs more inovations like NXT or BTS.Never play altcoin like dump and pump game.

A lot of people are spending BTC they bought just recently or acquired through jobs, etc. The early adopter slice is much smaller than you think.

if you dont mind little offtopic: I read 60%+ Bitcoins have never moved. What do you think of that. Are those Bitcoins lost? Sitting somehwhere in a junkyard on 5 years old laptotps? Or are the early adopters completely GREED RESISTANT and they will never cash out? (They surely havent when the price was 1000USD/BTC)

60% isn't exactly true, the amount is large but not that large. Some BTC is inevitably already lost. However I believe a large majority of this is forgotten BTC, and will soon be rediscovered, and depending on when it's rediscovered it'll either be kept or promptly sold.

I meant, big banks diving in with explicitly branded cryptos tied to the bank - something like "JPMorganCoin" - and flogged through their official Websites and through all their branches. Say what y'all like about them, but their customer bases are huge. Instant network effect.

First of all, I really like this attempt to restore some FUD free, troll free sanity to the altcoin section, bravo :)

I'm waiting to see what will happen to alts when the next big BTC rally comes on. I've noticed that the alts do very well when Bitcoin does well. Buying alts is almost like leveraging Bitcoin price movements. When Bitcoin does poorly, alts crash and burn. But where Bitcoin rises, boy oh boy. New blood flocks into the scene, and alts soar.

Now is a bad time to launch a new coin, if you want positive publicity and a growing market cap, wait until Bitcoint takes off again.

Thoughts ?

I posted this before but it fits well here,  just my thoughts about crypto.

I have been asking myself the same question lately and I came to the conclusion that cryptos still have a long way to go. Cryptos are suppose to fight against the current establishment but it seems cryptos mostly fight against each other, scamming people,  putting down others for their ideas. Projects that are closed source,  cryptos starting companies and then hide behind poor excuses of "we don't want people to steal our ideas", "businesses want to deal with a company ". Now if Google came out with a closed source crypto those same people would be calling it a joke and every one here would be calling it a scam.

Cryptos talk about helping people.  How?  From what I have seen so far is that if you have money to buy into IPO's,  calls for participation or mining equipment then cryptos are for you. How does this help people in third world countries? It looks the same system that we have now, those that have money get more while those that don't get left behind. If crypto devs really cared they would either fund their own projects or ask for donations with no promise of return. Look at most coin threads and most of the talk is about the price of the coin, "my coin went up to. 00005, heading to da moon!", sorry but until average joe uses your coin to buy fuel, clothes etc then your coin is worthless.

To the devs with huge egos the same goes to you, until your world changing creation actually does, lose the attitude the only people you are impressing are the sheep.

A very valid point. Idea stealing isn't something that should be seen as a thing in crypto. It goes against the entire point of cryptocoins being completely open-source and allowing anyone to review and change the code.

1. This seems incredibly naive to me, to be a dev you must be all philanthropy? Nary a hope of supporting yourself with your work? People don't really donate in meaningful capacities here. Even XMR, the altcoin that has more "bitcoiners" interested than any other, is struggling for donations (the people doing the coding generally don't work for free). Check out miner developers: they make orders of magnitude more keeping their miners closed and/or private because no one donates anything meaningful.

Even if all they wanted to do was give away their time and "help people", it'd arguably be better for them to behave the same as before and donate their earnings to projects they feel are worthwhile, rather than giving it away for free to all the crypto-community and letting them keep the profits. Are you giving away your mining earnings? Market appreciation earnings?

2. Interesting sentiment. The market doesn't agree with you though.

1. It worked out well for Linux, it was developed by people giving countless hours to code it and never were paid.

2. I guess we have different opinions on what true worth is.

1. It worked out WAY better for Microsoft and Apple.

2. Now we're talking about "true" worth? What does that even mean? [NTS] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman) Stuff is worth what someone is willing to pay.

Sic. Anyhow...

I would like to express my opinion about what's possibly the most important evolution I see.
Keep in mind I do not consider myself a crypto enthusiast. Privacy cool but I don't feel like I need more than what BTC does, asset exchange... what does that even mean? I'm not a trader either. I don't care about how this or that thing makes trading more or less awesome. I don't care about this.
That said.

It seems to me multi-pow isn't getting enough attention.
Now, the degree of multi-pow benefits are still to be investigated but it seems reasonable those benefits are there and even when 2p-pow will roll out, multi-pow will allow broader adoption.

When it comes to decentralization VTC goes great lengths in ensuring it stays decentralized by the means of being committing to be ASIC-proof.

Multi-pow takes this one step further. Even if one algorithm gets centralized, the others still stand a chance of being fair to small miners. ASIC resistance is no more necessary.

It is worth noticing that algorithms can be more rewarding to an architecture instead of another: for example, page 4 (http://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/ir/2012/NIST.IR.7896.pdf):

• The ARX-based algorithms, BLAKE and Skein, perform extremely well in software.
• Keccak has a clear advantage in throughput/area performance in hardware implementations
• Grøstl and JH are considerably slower than the other three algorithms in most software implementations

I might add that long chained hashing (albeit useless cryptographically speaking) is inherently resistant to trivial FPGA implementations. We know CryptoNight is so far resistant to GPU, even though I speculate this won't last long. Hopefully some algorithm will take advantage of GPU unique features sooner or later.

So it seems reasonable there is (there will be) a set of algorithms which can be fair to all types of users.

When it comes to choosing a multi-pow coin... there is very little choice. Myriad, Saffron, Spectrum: as for the first I can tell the developers are indeed working towards to evolve the coin to some sort of platform - you might have read their proposed PolyMyr merge mining system.
It is unclear whatever this will work out or not, but at least those are benefits I can perceive and a step in the right direction in my opinion.

Last but not least, I get to play with various algos without making a gazillion wallets.

Actually no. With the exception of the desktop and Apple's share of the mobile virtually everywhere else (from in vehicle systems to web servers to supercomputers) it is operating systems with Linux kernels such as GNU/Linux and Android/Linux that dominate. In the mobile market the latter is literally gaining on Apple by leaps and bounds. Virtually all of Microsoft’s and Apple's competitors from Goolge to eBay from Facebook to Twitter are built on top of FLOSS operating systems. The best part is the financial markets buy or sell AAPL or MSFT on any major financial market and the trade will be executed using servers running GNU/Linux. Yes this includes software originally written by projects started non other than Richard Stallman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman) and this means even Bill Gates has to rely on FLOSS operating systems in order to sell his MSFT shares to fund his foundation.

Oh. Sorry I wasn't clear. I don't support MS or Apple (support might be a loose term; I own not a single Apple product, but do own some MS products). FLOSS obviously is getting more and more use in all corners. I much prefer Android over iOS (I also don't get the "gaining on" unless you mean people's opinions of it? It is way more widely used than iOS.) and will probably do the same with a Linux flavor for PC in the future (have to support and use MS at work + I like PC games).

I was referring to them making 100s of billions of dollars.

Edit: (below) sorry for off-topic. Let's get back to altcoins.

Back on topic with the discussion of Altcoins, eh? Although I can understand why that discussion came about it is getting off-topic now and this is an Altcoin discussion thread after all.

What are your opinions on Burst? Does it look like a coin with a positive future? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=731923.0

Nice sig. :P

I'm rather surprised the price isn't more pumped with all the interest it's been getting.

It seems to me to be a bigger rat race than even regular POW, so I'm not sure how I feel about it yet.

Considering how storage cost scales down super fast I think it's very easily centralized... one does not even need ASICs to do that. Try buying a SAN.

Indeed, this could be a problem. Bandwidth is a limiting factor in the coin also but the actual variable of how much storage space you can get can be manipulated very easily. It will probably get better as the coin becomes older, though, just like with Bitcoin.

Also, quick note, this was my 2500th post. Sweet.

Congratulations  :)

If you define success = make billions of dollar then apple and microsoft do outperform all opensource technologies...

If you define success = market reach. Nobody should even think about MS or Apple.

This is true. However I would appreciate it if from this point onwards discussion returned to altcoins.

yeah, you are about 50 years behind time there champion they are called :

Mastercard, Visa, SWIFT, and Digital Debt Money Bank accounts.

just explain to me where the motive to make a digital currency is for a bank?

Spoetnik is thread banned from this point on for his ridiculous and annoying trolling.

The future if ripe for a large "third" competitor.

Linux was always "held back" by hardware constraints, a lot of these vectors are about to change.

Points:

- The "West" "BRICs" split is already meaning innovation is going into new hardware and software (i.e from China Russia and BRICs you will soon see a native OS) (it will likely be Linux Unix based, probably open source)

- Then this system will start to compete with the "Western" competitors, and the only way to stop it from decimating them in all market areas will be to "sanction" it.

- But the only thing that can be sanctioned is "Hardware" 

Check out these vectors:

- Enter 3D printing and in future 3D printing of electronics. (headline near future)

- it's almost impossible to "Sanction" Mobile hardware.

- Mobile processors will have a revolution of 2 key factors, power (i.e battery) and power (processor power will rise, usage will drop)


Scenario:

In a "West" "BRICs" Split , the BRICs no longer have any incentive or motive to support traditional monopolies, whereas they did before, out of this lack of incentive to support monopoly will come a "third way" which will be an open source OS that integrates across platforms.

the Platforms will be mostly mobile to start as the "West" will try to sanction native hardware , with the excuse of "security" and "spyware" i.e they will use the actual things that most monopolies have been doing for years as an excuse to "block" the "BRICs" hardware.

but it will not work.

= future is open source.
 

Same as with debit cards; same as with online banking Websites. Customer acquisition and customer retention, plus participation in a new technology to make the bank seem "hip." 

Let's bring this back up. I'm not going to allow this thread to die and be buried below all the other threads in the Alternate Cryptocurrencies section, sorry trolls ;)

Perhaps there is nothing serious to say about the Altcoin world?

While there is at least one altcoin there would always be a theme to talk about.
And the most hot topic is Dogecooin because it's on the move this week as we have seen a huge increase in price just 24 hours (from 27satoshis to 34satoshis)

I have honestly forgot what we were discussing.

What about 2p-pow?

I doubt it. It's just that the trolls, shills and FUD'ers knock down all the serious threads to the bottom of Alternate Cryptocurrencies. Anyway, time to bump this thread again. I'll keep it going with another post every once in a while.

What make you think so? I doubt that you thread is serious as you think so. I was thinking there going to be people to discuss FUDers and puppy accounts here, and, maybe, scam account  (which would be very useful because there are a lot of scammers here on the forum) !

But I don't see any serious discussion here.

Lets make this serious. Talking about new innovations these altcoins have.

does anybody know what is the reason behind DOGE price?

Such a thread was needed. Basically the entire alt coin board has become a fudshilltrollfest that never ends. No actual information whatsoever.

No. You're not wanted here. @uteroulin there has been plenty of serious discussion on this thread so far - read some of the replies!

Maybe we can talk a little bit about supernet and maybe some involved coins in the furture.

So I go ahead.

We already know that BTCD and NXT will be in the core.

BTCD offers the teleport feature
NXT offers a lot of features
BBR offers anonymous transactions.

So what are coins with unique features?

Maybe NODE. Cause they will have instant transactions and an integrated gateway to a couple of exchanges in almost realtime.

What about starage coins? I think one will have a chance. There is only storj at the moment. But maidsafe and Sia are coming soon.

Which coin will have the best mobile app? Maybe this coin will take part. NEM plans to build something, but I don´t know which coin is here ahead.

What about Ethereum? Personally I don´t thin they will take part, cause they want to go their own way, and the launch is maybe next year.


Lets discuss.

I asked this in the (one of) SuperNET thread.  

Can you explain how I can send any coin in the SuperNet using BBR's ring signature technology?  The only thing I can really imagine is it sending my say - NXT - to an exchange.  Sell it for BBR - send it to another BBR address - sell it back to NXT - forward it to the person I'm sending it to.

I'm having a difficult time grasping why/what this SuperNET idea really does except a fuzzy notion of combining all strengths & economic factors of the "good coins" by chaining together their features and linking them economically in a mutual fund type offering.

It's really difficult for me to grasp how this is going to work ...

On Ethereum I've been watching the Reddit.  The general consensus in this cesspool of scammy trolling shilling retardedness is that Ethereum is a scam.  I have no idea if what they are doing will work or not.  But it's big.  They did not run off with the bitcoin nor does it appear they had/have any intention of doing so.  The excitement and participation around the project is growing after the funding - not shrinking.

I also view their launch - while it started as a pre-sale.  As being probably the fairest launch in crypto that I've seen to date.

i just linked to a pretty interesting piece here :

http://www.reddit.com/r/QuarkOmega/comments/2ggtwc/mark_t_williams_uses_my_basic_analysis_of_crypto/

Apparently Professor Mark T Williams, has taken on a "crypto monopoly" analysis of Bitcoin, hey, who knows how he was inspired?

of course I'm just happy that education is proliferating

* sorry for the double link i linked to it from another to see if tots-meta-bot was still switched off ha ha.

--------------------------------------------------------------

also if you would like some more amusement the Bank of England actually "Trolled" Bitcoin in two ways:

1. first by including an address to FBI seized Bitocin in its recent tech Annex.
http://www.reddit.com/r/QuarkOmega/comments/2g7kas/you_heard_it_here_first_bank_of_england_refers_to/

2. This Tweet. https://twitter.com/bankofengland/status/511183700911202304

which is hilarious when you think about it .

---------------------------------------------------------------

also if you haven't already seen it :

http://www.coindesk.com/stellar-ripple-hyperledger-rivals-bitcoin-proof-work/

proponents talk down the key aspect of crypto currency economics for a "consensus ledger" ha ha.

Although the OP asked for discussion of technical innovations, as a coin dev myself, I believe as far as mainstream adoption is concerned the technical innovations are not the issue (as alluded to in the above quote), as I posted in the thread How we crypto geeks get it wrong & the reality of alt coin success (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=687900.0).

In that thread, I we discussed what it is like in the real world, building an altcoin user community. Just to quote a taste:


---snip---
The other day on the Poloniex Troll Box, I saw a brilliant comment that summed it all up, "What difference does a new algo make for XXX (insert name here) coin, when next week there will be a newer one?"

Every other comment on the Troll box & these forums runs along the lines of, "XXX coin is no clone, the Dev created 7 new algos, the coin will soar - to da moon!" Of course that is rebutted in days with, "Yeah but XXX2 coin flips those algos sideways & upside down - to da moon!"

Ah, we geeks just don't get it!

The user community for a coin only cares technically about two things:
     - Is it easy to use
     - is it secure
---snip---



But it is not just marketing, although Doge has certainly shown the power of that. Any altcoin that succeeds longterm, only needs enough technology to be easy to use & secure. Beyond that only we crypto geeks on forums like this care about which algo a coin has. And believe me, we on this forum are a very, very small percentage of the worldwide user community.

As I detailed in the thread, 80% of the people we talk to on the street say they have not even heard of bitcoin, and the vast majority of the ones that have think BTC is a scam.

So it is the right combination of technology & user community that is the real innovation of any coin that lasts longterm.

I am interesting to know your opinion about next coins:
1) Zerocash and Anoncoin
2) BTS-X
3) NXT
4) Dark

What dou you think is the pros and cons and what coins you are potentially interested to invest in, and why?

Many peoples didn't even know about cryptos. Many others didn't even know bitcoin.
I think most of the altcoins aren't made to be coins like btc. There are only tales in the descriptions and in op when they are starting a new alt. You can read stuff like "this will be the new money of the century" and " the whole new coin of the world wich will change the worlds payment methods" and shit like that .
But this is not a problem i think. These altcoins are made to be short-term money factories. And there is 3 main users who use (and make money with) these new alt coins (with really good opportunities) - 1, Founder and Dev (due to premine,instamine etc.)  2, Miners ( who make huge amount of coins) 3, Speculants (who are trading with these coins) . knowing these the whole altcoin ( including Doge, ltc, even other shitcoins) "business" is a huge well and self formed system where these 3 types of users can make huge moneys by making this whole system complete and this is why is good for all 3 of them.

edit: It seems to me that this thread is going to be a promo thread lol

Thanks for starting this thread, as you said, it was sorely needed.

I hope that whenever someone comes across a new coin that is running a giveaway or ICO they post it here. I spend a lot of time scouring this forum looking for new coins... it would be great if we could all update each other here.

I think 2015 will see a battle of the next gen cryptocurrency "systems", namely Etherium, Counterparty, Bitshares, eMunie, NODE. Basically, new coins will have to bring more to the table than just a QT wallet or a claim of anonymity.

As someone mentioned earlier, we could see an invasion of corporate sponsored coins such as "JPMorgancoin" or "Verizoncoin". While the first reaction is obviously to stay far away, they will undoubtedly provide benefits to people who happen to already be using those services.

Good post. I agree that security and ease of use are needed for mass adoption.

Pandacoin (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=568529.0) have a plan in motion that address those issues.

Anyone aware here of MYRiadcoin Simplicity package?

the alt scene is dead, who care anymore

I think over the next year the market will mature to a handful of coins that have a strong user community/niche (like Doge, AppleByte, Gulden, some others).

Do not miss the significance of Paypal taking BTC, LTC,  & Doge. People will use the coin they like, simply because they like the community.

And I hope the investors will mature enough to realize that without a real user community (not a crypto geek one) chasing this weeks "breakthrough technology" is a pointless game.

Why so serious?

lol joking aside, there's no way to keep a thread like this clean from shilling and trolling. It just isn't possible.

I'm the one who mentioned "JPMorgancoin" or suchlike - and got swatted by our resident sooper-genyus, after which I swatted back - but now that someone serious has taken up the topic, I'd like to present two alternate scenarios. First the bad one:

Worst Case: "JPMorgancoin", "Verizoncoin", "McDonald'sCoin" et. al. blow us all away because they're much slicker than the best that all of us can come up with. This is the "Amateur Hour Is Over" scenario, in which ordinary folks decide that the entire crypto-space as it is now, is just too polluted to be bothered with. They trade up to "legitimate" cryptocoins right from the start and we're left behind for the history books that'll be written when we're much older and scattered to the hills.

Best Case: "JPMorgancoin" et. all. legitimizes the entire cryptocurrency scene, including us. We all have new prestige as bona-fide early adopters, and our newfound prestige carries over to our favourite coins. Clever evangelists take the opportunity to debunk the FUD surrounding Bitcoin, et. al., by using this two-pronged technique: the FUD either wasn't true at all, or else it was true but is true no more now that the entire industry is legitimized by the biggies coming in. If they're astute, they will miss no opportunity to show how the "legitimate" alcoins are to the "illegitimate" ones. (Almost certainly, I'll be one of the "they.") Many of our faves won't survive the rush to legitimacy, but it's a sure bet that we as people all will make out like bandits. For example, just think of how hot your resume will become once "JPMorgancoin", "Verizoncoin", "McDonald'sCoin" et. al. become big hiring centres... 

As you might have guessed, my own inclinations lean towards the best-case scenario. ;) But I think my instincts are sound in re my tilt, because early adopters in general do have a prestige - including a real resume prestige for a tech subsector that suddenly becomes hot. When Ruby on Rails became a go-to-platform, early adopters could pretty much write their own ticket when the recruiters came calling...

That said, I fell obliged to present a third scenario. I think it's less likely than either of the two, or a mix of them, but I might as well finish with it:

Curve-Ball Case: Cryptocurrency never takes off and just fades into the sunset. This one seems very unlikely because of the venture capital moving into the Bitcoin space, but it's still possible. VCs have been wrong before.

fwiw, I didn't get the sense of an exchange of swats but otoh, the discussion is meandering a bit.

I mean, if you really want to get serious, I guess you could start by explaining why you consider a multinational bank would be interested in trying to run and control a decentralised cryptocurrency when their entire business rationale is based on centralisation.

Even if the context could be adjusted to fit, the key question they'd be asking is whether it would provide a consistent revenue stream in excess of $1bn because otherwise it would simply be unprofitable for them (*).

In short, what USP does a cryptocurrency offer a multinational bank and how would they cost it?

Edit: Ramamurthi explained to CoinDesk that a key challenge for banks that send cross-border transactions is making sure those who are sending money aren’t on any terrorist or money laundering watch lists. Given the velocity of money flows, this can create operational issues – and higher costs. By using real-time settlement ledgers like the one Ripple offers, Ramamurthi said banks can reduce the friction created when meeting government oversight standards. - http://www.coindesk.com/us-banks-embraced-ripple/

Cheers

Graham


(*) I've allowed for 20 years of inflation ...
GrahamInR&D: Hey, I've got a govt agency interested in buying the environmental modelling package we've written. They want to know when it'll be on the price list!!
BlokeInCorporate: Not interested. You need to show that it'll add better than $100 million to the bottom line to be taken seriously.

Yes, you're right about Ripple. As for the USP, essentially the same as the USP for going online in the first place - which I already explained. I fail to see where you get the $1 billion figure from. An entire cryptocurrency and basic ecosystem can be bought for significantly less than setting up a new branch - which is exactly how any bank executive would see the start-up of a new crypto. A new decentralized "branch," in a new "hip" part of cyberspace, whose one aim is to get more customers and to make the current customers more likely to stick around: nothing more.

Why would $1 billion in new revenue be required for setting up a new branch - or a more-or-less equivalent expenditure, when the "we have to be legal" wing-clips are added to the base code along with tight integration into the bank's standard electronic accounts ledgers?

I still care, but only to try to play some of the more established alts to help offset BTC value drop. I have zero interest in any new coin period. Every single niche that can be filled is already filled by multiple coins. But there are a few that have established themselves (and have remained somewhat dormant recently) that I think will be great long term plays if the BTC market can turn around.

In order to attract the kind of FMCG corporates you mention, I suspect that there'd have to be several orders of magnitude more positive consumer awareness of the real-life practical advantages of using cryptocurrency. And it will be a remarkably brave brand manager who commits the corporation to using a precious (and enormously expensive to maintain) FMCG brand identity to endorse and lend corporate legitimacy to the notion of cryptocurrency. The profit potential would have to be gigantic.

And they'd still have to surmount the profound mismatch of a centralised organisation running a decentralised cryptocurrency. Whose interests are supposed to take priority?


It's just a wild-arsed guess, intended to emphasise the difference that comes with working with eight- and nine-figure budgets that are carefully planned to evolve over time. (The original $100m figure is genuine from 1994 and recent experience informs me that nowt's changed). Everything has to scale, including projects, just to be able to retain control. My out of date experience of the corporate environment contrasts sharply with your description, that's all.

Cheers

Graham

Well...I suppose I wasn't explicit enough. Comes from me hanging out in several echo chambers, I guess. ;)

If I'm right about mainstreamization: To Joe Average - Joe Sheeple, if you prefer - cryptocurrencies will be nothing more than a neat-o hipster-cool gadget he'd like to brag about to his friends once he's on board. That's all he'll see; that's all he'll care to see.

Obligingly, the executives of those FCMG corporates will instruct their house staff to make (say) "McDonaldsCoin" to be: a) centralized; b) tightly tied to one single exchange - run by none other than McDonald's - that's accessible in-wallet. Essentially this kind of 'cryptocurrency' would be nothing more than a digitized McDonald's gift certificate. But it would be promoted, in McDonald's inimitable way, as hipster, stylish, cool, etc. with a "real cryptocurrency taste" (so to speak.)

And Joe Mainstream will swallow it 100%. Why? because he's pegged the likes of us as nothing more than computer whizzes with a strange but somewhat endearing philosophy that he really doesn't care about. All he'll care about is that we're the early-adopter community with the cool-and-hip gizmos. Do you know any Joe-Mainstream type who gives a fig about the underlying design philosophy held by the engineers of his 72" HDTV? I don't.

Now...in order to gasp my next point, I have to ask you to consider this (real life) case in point. Imagine a stockbroker who's made his career in mining stocks, which necessarily include a lot of gold-mining and gold-mining-exploration stocks, who (when in his cups and relaxing) heaps scorn on those "gold-standard nut-cases."  (Not an exact quote, but it's close enough.) Call him cynical if you will, call him hypocritical if you prefer, but the right call in this context is "businesslike." In order to put food on the table, he has to be discreet about his true political opinions from time to time in order to serve his clients. And, when he's on the job, the clients come first.

Just transfer that businesslike attitude to the executive ranks of (say) McDonald's, JPMorgan, Barclays, and whatnot. They'll peg cryptocurrencies as a hot new gizmo. Their gutting of the true cryptocurrency infrastructure will be pegged by them as sensible and businesslike, and the likes of us will be gushingly flattered by the respective PR departments. We'll get the flattery treatment, which is the standard form of condescension in America. And, if I'm right, we'll get a lot of cachet but our underlying philosophy will just be as fringey as ever.

But we will certainly come into our own, status- and even employment-wise... :)   

I think all these coins mentioned by you are the same. I think these isn't 'nextgen' coins. neither of them can show any promovation, or unique idea. imo

Ngaio shares my perception that the altcoin scene is throwing up a few reminders of the early days of the web. If the parallel holds true then corporates will be again be slow on the uptake, mainly because to “get” it requires i) an actual familiarity with the tech and ii) a change in thinking. Both requirements are inherently difficult for corporates to meet.

(A corporate is like a tree of monkeys. Those at the top, looking down, see bright eyes and attentive faces. Those at the bottom, looking up, see only arseholes.)

I wish I had more time to respond, I'm finding this discussion useful because it's prompting me to think more deeply about how cryptocurrency relates to the societal shifts that are occurring both in working life and in what counts as a leisure activity - and that includes taking a broad enough view of the “PnD rush” to put it into the same category as following the horse racing on telly. For at least that aspect of the altcoin scene, the rules are reasonably well-worked out by now - to the extent where I can just about make out the basics of a pitch for a videogame, “Risko-Risto's CryptoCurrency Challenge”. Even when playing with real money, it's arguably better entertainment value and a lot cheaper than dropping £40 on a night out at the cinema.

But the main problem that altcoins present to corporate uptake is the volatility of the market ...

Which leads me to the reason why I'm pressed for time --- I've been busy bringing DOACC up to date with recent launches. It's a bit of a rambling collection of metadata and very patchy in places but I've made an effort to assign at least an “incept” %y-%m date for every single altcoin listed. A few will inevitably be off by a month or three but the vast majority of incept dates are reasonably accurate. Which means I can publish graphs of numbers of altcoin launches by %y-%m ...

https://i.imgur.com/zENEOo9.png

Looks like an awful lot of heat has gone out of the market, reflected by a rash of coin creation special offers. During the height of the mid-2014 Cryptocoin Rush, some folks were predicting an after-effect of an increased demand for coins able to demonstrate real longevity. Maybe we should be on the lookout for that or maybe the phenomenon has simply run its course.

A dynamic version of the chart is available on Minkiz (http://minkiz.co/coin/infographics/)

Cheers

Graham

... to anyone to render for themselves.

The data is retrieved from DOACC (https://github.com/DOACC/individuals) via SPARQL queries (posed of a Fuseki (https://github.com/semfact/openshift-fuseki)-mediated localhost endpoint). A javascript package (sgvizler (http://dev.data2000.no/sgvizler/)) handles the posting of the query and generates the charts directly from the SPARQL results, all straightforwardly expressed in HTML. This is the incantation for the above chart with the verbatim SPARQL query highlighted in green ...


It just needs a change to the SPARQL query and a call to google.visualization.PieChart (marked in red) to get the frequency data for the current month for protection schemes, plotted as a pie chart:


For a graph showing the distribution schemes, just replace doacc:protection-scheme with doacc:distribution-scheme, change the title and that's it, job done.

https://i.imgur.com/0cgI61M.png

Now, that's what I call Web 3.0.


Cheers,

Graham

Neoscoin is one of the best new coins lately

I has an honest dev. And as you guys know that is like 1 in 100 these days.

The guy really cares about crypto and is pissed about how it has been corrupted by scammers and scamcoins, this is why he made his coin.

I have a lot of respect for the guy, Syntaks. Look into him.

Before you write this off as just shilling for a coin I own a lot of, think about what I just said. You and count honest coins and honest devs on your ten fingers. He is really trying to make a difference.

He was contracted by a ton of coins that he helped only to see them pump them and leave them for dead. Hes a good guy and will be continuing to develop his coin for many years to come.

He deserves to have his name in a serious discussion thread such as this. This is the kind of person we need to support. And the few that are like him.

And thank you for starting this thread, it is a good one I check up on everyday!!

Alts have reached a point where you're better off investing in one that has established itself, stuck around for the longer haul, possibly bottomed out, and still have ongoing development. Every niche that can be filled is already filled, by a few alts.

The only reason anyone is buying any new alt right now is to hopefully get rich quick and dump the bags on some poor sucker at a high price. It's not different than it ever was, but the problem now is there's no room left for it. Bittrex volume being significantly down overall lately isn't some coincidence. And Bittrex volume at its peaks weren't anything compared to Mintpal post BlackCoin volume. You're just way too late to the game if you're still chasing the newest alt right now. Especially with BTC trading at $380 and the market just depressed overall, with many whales likely out of the game right now.

Only when BTC recovers, along with a few of the bigger name alts, can this cycle start up once again.

Thanks for your response! It's great to get thoughtful replies.


On that point, I'm expecting the usual stampede effect. First no major corporation to speak of, then (after a tipping point) a whole bunch of them pile in.

Q: Why do too many monkeys climb too few trees? A: The monkeys not only like the same trees, they like each other!

If you are going to come to a serious discussion and make dumb comments, at least use your real account.

If you were here to make a real contribution, you would use your real account.

You know what? I hear over and over again that the marketcap is low and it has a huge chance for gain. This I do agree with, however the point I think makes the most sense is who actually made the coin.

Syntaks, the developer that made Neos is a serious alt coin developer, one that is not just here to make a coin, pump it and vanish.

This is someone a thread like this one should be following. I agree with the statement that there are only a couple good and honest developers out there. A developer that actually CARES about the future of cryptocurrency.

We should be making a list of who the "good" or "real" developers are, and follow them and support them. They need our help. They are outnumbered. The are the needle in the haystack and when we find one we should take notice.

Almost all the coin "developers" out there are criminals if you ask me.

25hashcoin is now thread banned. He can not post anymore as he is just spreading FUD. However I similarly urge you guys to stop feeding the trolls else you will also be thread banned. I don't like having to delete 5+ posts in a row. Cheers!

Not yet, alt coins are already like small companies. The massive problem in alt coins is POW which will always make your coins less in comparison to the supply and relying on donations for essential services