Bitcoin Forum

Amount: Total 7.58 btc, 4.5 btc available.

Duration: 30-45 days (can be paid back earlier depending on negotiations)

Repayment amount: Principle + 10% interest (4.95 btc) again, negotiable up to 15%.



Loan purpose: I am deeply involved in btc trades and also in the altcoin scene. My previous transactions in the trust category can speak for themselves. At the moment I am building up capital for a significant investment into a proven technology and trading projects that should take off soon. Feel free to ask me any question about my past trades and purposes for this loan.

Austin previously loaned a good portion to me for the loan, and has agreed to roll over the entire amount plus interest to the current one. That portion is set aside for austin alone, you have up to 4.5 btc and corresponding collateral you can loan for - you can check the previous thread here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=751645.0;all

I can provide a collateral in different coins to cover most of the loan at the current market price, if that would ease your concerns due to this request being a relatively large amount. Escrow will be the one we both agree on that can be trusted to hold the collateral.

Also, you can say my collateral is my reputation not only on btc talk forum trading reputation, but also my crypto reputation in general (irc, twitter, other forums etc) since people i work with know my forum handle. I would like to state this just to make clear what I am proposing.

Thank you for taking time to read this request - I have posted in several threads seeking a loan for similar conditions. Anyone who comes first will have priority in terms of negotiations.

Most terms are negotiable, and collateral covers 100% at slightly below current market rates, meaning you will most likely end up with 110% of the loan as a collateral.




Once again, up to 4.5 btc loan accepted for corresponding collateral.

Thank you in advance :)

Edit: Adjusted for new collateral amount and corresponding loan amount available on 10/31.

Edit #2: Concluded, and matured.

I can loan you upto 0.5BTC for sufficient collateral. No escrow required. But i am not against it.

What happens if the altcoin drops value?

Can you be more specific as to what collateral you are offering? It is obviously alt coins, but can you be more specific as to what alt coin you can provide?

EDIT: @Watoshi-Dimobuto - escrow is to protect the borrower from you running away with his collateral either as soon as he gives it to you (and before you send him the loan) or after he pays you back.

I sent you a pm - certain details are confidential, but we are free to post here confirmations for public records when deals are sealed.

I had hoped to have minimum of 1 btc per individual to keep this less chaotic. Escrow is essential to hold the collateral and arrange transfers.

What is the collateral if I were to lend entire amount?

PM Sent. Verification and public disclosure to follow in case of deal being sealed.

Offer still on going.

I'd like to know aswell.

Why does it need to be such a big secret as to what the collateral you are going to offer is? Also I see in your other thread from ~a month ago that you would not agree to have the collateral liquidated in the event the value of the collateral were to drop below the amount of the loan. This alone would be a red flag for me (even with your positive trust) as it would mean that you may not be able to repay the loan if the collateral drops in value by too much

Not every trader and investor is required to disclose all the details of individual transactions to any uninvolved persons in public. If some decide that certain details are to be confidential, then it's not your place to question their dealings as long as respective parties negotiate fairly and post public confirmations to that regard. If someone is interested enough to directly message me, of course they will be privy to the details upon tacit agreement that such information are kept confidential on all sides.

Also, liquidating the collateral option is one I rejected and continue to reject, simply because the sheer volatility of crypto currency makes this a very disadvantageous move. There are certain compromises and negotiable factors I am willing to consider, but anyone with a hint about investment and trading will understand such a clause in this environment is a great liability. Perhaps you also do not even think about the fact that I am essentially forfeiting any chance to capitalize on profits from the collateralized assets in the event they increase drastically in price. It's a trade off with risks and potential loss of profits for both sides involved - everyone is taking a risk in one way or another.

I do not understand why you would consider either of these 'red flags' aside from the fact that my policy regarding either situations simply does not play to your profits or comfort.

That's too bad - and it's also not your place to question them.

If you like to deal fairly and negotiate specific terms, feel free to send PM and we can discuss them. All are taking certain risks in these deals, and I try to reach the fairest deal possible.

I could loan a portion of the request to you, but collateral must cover at least 110% of the loan, 120% is better for your safety.
Of course if the altcoin provided rises significantly in value I'm willing to send it back a portion up to the original value coverage... it is not my desire to hamper your trading efforts by devoiding you of liquidity.

PM me if interested.

I might consider loaning you a couple btc. Pm me collateral info.

I appreciate your offer. However I must decline since escrow is essential for this to work on my end. If you change your mind, let me know.


PM sent.

If you still need BTC please also send me a PM regarding collateral information.

PM sent.

Austin's 3.08 btc portion confirmed and offer is set, collateral adjusted as per agreement, maturity date on the Dec 14th, 0730 GMT.

Maidak thank you for escrow service once again.

Please confirm here for public record.

Remaining portions are 4.5 btc with appropriate collateral, up for negotiations. All interested parties, PM me and post here.

My pleasure remaining collateral is still being held by me. ;)

Offer still ongoing.

4.5 btc left to fill with appropriate collateral.

I am at fault for not reading this completely.

User here is NOT offering collateral despite scamming attempts to entice users in thinking so. The very definition of collateral counteracts his assumptions.

He whises to use lenders like a parachute: if everything goes OK and his collateral gains value he will pay, otherwise good luck with him giving back principal + interest and getting back useless coins  ;D

All this weighting on borrowed money.

All offers withdrawn, stay away like the plague!!

You say you failed to read the terms properly when I publicly stated it and my reasons behind it. Then you proceed to say 'scam'.


I am not sure if you are upset about me being unwilling to lend on the basis that you will liquidate the collateral if it falls below current value, and thus posted this lying accusation. Were you trying to scam me by giving you a direct control over the collateral instead of 3rd party escrow, or hoping to liquidate the collateral at a higher price once you got hold of it?

You are simply a liar for doing so - I have explained the reason clearly why I stay away from liquidation of collateral option unless the payment is not made on time. That's what a collateral is for.

One user has already decided to invest 3.08 BTC because we have dealt before.

Not agreeing to the terms that are in your favor does not make the deal a 'scam'.

The collateral value overtime is not a consideration in whether I pay or not - I must pay, because you are supposed to pay back your loans no matter what. Am I missing something here?

Maybe you have been scammed one too many times judging from your sent-feedback history (containing mostly personal complaints and whining) and now decides to spend your time bitching at others for supposed 'scams'. You should better understand your position.

You insisted on holding an option to liquidate the collateral. I rejected it, and informed you that 3rd party escrow will hold the coins and only liquidation that will occur is if the payment of the loan is not made on time.

To call this standard arrangement a 'scam' because it did not settle in your favor - what a joke. You apparently think loans are supposed to be 100% in your favor and know nothing about how deals like these work. It's a trade off, and 3rd party escrow acting as the insurance against fraud - an option that I favor.


To all serious investors, feel free to PM.

Title states collateral will be provided when it is not ---> scammy behaviour. Offered deal is extremely dangerous.


Yes. The purpose of collateral is to insure the lender against the borrower. For more benefit please read here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collateral_(finance)


Beginners tend to mix LOAN with INVESTMENT. Is this a loan request or an investment opportunity? Secured loans are supposed to be 100% in the favor of the lender unlike an investment which exposes both parties to risk.
Please check it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loan  --- under SECURED section.

You try to cater serious investors, please act accordingly.

What are you even talking about? Collateral is always provided, and has been provided to austin already via maidak holding them as he publicly confirmed.

Next time you want to be taken seriously, understand the difference between 'insure' and 'hand over the money without escrow and trust someone not to steal your collateral'.

Secured loans do not favor the lender 100% - there is no such arrangement in financial deals, only a difference in balance of advantage and disadvantage, especially in the crypto scene. I offer the best and fairest arrangements I can and will support all trusted 3rd party escrow to hold the collateral for my client exactly for any contingencies in loan payment.

You obviously have been burned one too many times with your amateurish attempts at investments and loans, and now want to blame anyone for your grossly ignorant understanding of how financial deals work.

Your history and mine contrast very differently. No one will miss the difference, and especially your lack of proper attitude in engaging other members based on your supposed expertise borrowed from wikipedia about lending practices for different environments.

Serious investors would not be able to comprehend exactly what you are complaining about when you yourself admitted never reading enough to see what I publicly posted and explained.


Notice the fact that he asked for no escrow and simply handing over the collateral directly, when I specifically stated 3rd party escrow being essential.

Why would anyone refuse a 3rd party escrow we can both agree on?

Especially when many of his negative feedbacks against others emphasize importance of escrow?

Full of holes and full of lies. Most people didn't even bother with this type of behavior, but it's time you are called out on your mouth.



Offer ongoing, 4.5 btc left to fill with appropriate collateral held by escrow.

It is a deposit as he cannot liquidate it in the event the value pummels. He has to TRUST you will honor the deal in such a situation. Very unlikely considering your reactions.


That's childlish. Proper way of dealing business is escrow and liquidable collateral. Your refusal do to this is a huge red flag as it was already pointed out by another savvy user.


I did and made my reply showing the inherent dangers of such an agreement with you, along with the scammy title which includes the word "collateral".
As I have already told you by PM: childlish behaviour isn't going to win you any friends. This is an investment opportunity and not a secured loan so... wrong section :D

Let's hear what other users say about this matter

Apparently you missed the part where the value could rocket and I would not be able to profit because, well it's in a collateral.

You also missed the part where the collateral is given to the lender if the payment is not made as per agreement.

Are you blind, or just that short?

Childish and inexperienced seems to be their agreement on your behavior, based on past dealings with you :)

Offer on going, 4.5 btc with collateral provided via 3rd party escrow.

I did not, you may want to read more carefully my reply dated November 4.

Before borrowing money you should spend some time into reading proper money management techniques:

- forbid collateral liquidation ---> no longer collateral
- include a partial refund in case of value rise --> professional approach.


That is the purpose of collateral, not something you can add as an extra.

Yes you needed that spelled out for you, so there it is :)

Apparently you are too busy thinking of your profits to understand that forbidding liquidation for anything other then late payment past maturity date is an option, not a requirement for a collateral.

Don't like the basic arrangements? This is a negotiations, and your preferences do not define what secure loan and collateral is.

I do not recall anyone saying those are 'extra', only you are being too much of a little bitch to figure out the obvious statement. :D

I did not need you to offer any 'partial refunds' to my advantage - you tried to not even use escrow, then asked for large amounts of collateral that can be liquidated to your advantage, and now you think you want to redefine what a 'collateral' is based on your personal preferences while mouthing off about 'professionalism'.

Negotiations and trade apparently means little to you, and your 'offers' are rejected completely.

Confirmed. :)

Well he's risking his reputation if he wishes to keep all the coins and default on the loans.

I can confirm that Honeypot is offering collateral but I won't reveal what it is, as that's what the OP wants.

Thank you for confirming, Valzador. I try to reach the fairest deal possible on equitable terms.

Offer on going, 4.5 btc portion remaining with collateral and conditions as outlined in the OP.

This is indeed true and a huge red flag, however I'm not commenting on users choices... it is your money and you do what you want with it. :)

The purpose of my posts here is to make sure everyone understand that what he is offering is not collateral by definition.

It is some kind of 'deposit to escrow' which may or may not lose value. If its value rises he is safe since escrow holds the coins and he can redeem them by paying.
The breach happens in case the value lowers.... he is no longer financially compelled to uphold his part of the bargain since he will trade a good asset (plus interest) for a losing one. You'll have to believe his word for this.... which makes to whole concept of collateral null and void.

The fact that he did not mention partial redeeming is just inexperience, it is a common condition of loans when another currency is used as true collateral not this kind of weird hybridation that OBVIOUSLY favors him despite his weird attempts at denying this.

That being said if these conditions are enough for someone to gamble, go ahead! I'm not suggesting that he will not pay... he is just making false advertisement and claims.

Now we have one ignorant italian boy bitching and moaning through PM and this thread, trying to defend himself after making some very ignorant comments.

If you knew how to invest, trade and spot legitimacy, maybe you wouldn't have been scammed so many times, and now try to bitch and nitpick at every loan thread when deals don't go your way :)

You think you can keep mouthing off about 'real collateral' and 'real security' when I have clearly outlined why this is financially and contractually very disadvantageous for one party in the cryptocurrency environment. I have also outlined that aside from these conditions, I negotiate to reach the fairest terms possible for both sides.

You refused escrow the first time around and tried to get a deal where you would be in direct control of the collateral - this is not a red flag, it's a confession of scam or at the very least extremely ignorant attitude that doesn't even deserve a serious consideration. Having a mutually agreed 3rd party escrow is essential for obvious reasons.

You then asked for liquidation option when I have clearly stated beforehand why that is not feasible, and then proceeded to squeal 'scam' - even though it was you who didn't even bother to read the terms.

You then proceeded to 'argue' about what you think is a 'right' definition of a 'secure' collateral and bitch about 'false advertisement' when in fact, you just happened to get mouthy and couldn't finish what you started without getting put in your place :)

If you knew the value of rep and had actual contacts and activities within crypto currency instead of spending most of your time whining and losing on deals, you would understand just how important it is :D


Offer ongoing, several requests at hand and options available. PM for details and confirm on the thread.

I must add: false advertisement and claims plus this kind of attitude everyone can see in the above post. Now my country of origin in getting into the discussion?  ???

Well, whatever, the dude asking for BTC to dig a treasure out was of the same sort but at least way more nice.

 

Most people can see that you are trying to dig up any possible excuse to talk trash after you were refused a deal that gave you 100% advantage - Can't take being called out on your attitude? :)

His attitude did a 180 degree turn into a petulant kid's mouthy tantrum after the 'no escrow, liquidation anytime to his advantage' was refused, and the accusation of 'scam' came after his very own admission via pm about how he didn't even read the thread. Now he insists he 'knows' what a 'proper' collateral is when half of his feedbacks are full of failed scam attempts and tantrums about how others did not give him the deal he wanted.

Kid mouths off about 'scams' right off the bat without even reading the thread (by his own admission no less) after the other side would not deal on completely disadvantageous terms - and now hopes for 'niceties'. Just got out of college? :D

It's noted that you never answered any of your obvious mistakes I called you out on, and keep trying to switch topics. Get out, and do not deal again on any threads made by serious investors. Maybe another scammer will satisfy your idea of 'secure' loan and steal your money to make you feel at home again :D


Offer still ongoing, 4.5 btc

Keep trash talking and lying if you want. It doesn't move me and I do not see anything worth answering.

You are unpolite, unprofessional and a liar. Period.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=577765.0

Cheeky and disrespectful, not to mention a liar is what you are, and thus you receive no respect in turn.

Might want to check you are the only one these responses are directed towards. Professional and direct approach is a two way street, one which you failed to respect.

You couldn't leave it well enough alone after being told off for your lying accusations via pm, and now you are here being dissected for all your mistakes and false claims after making the mistake of going public with your lies. Thanks to that, you will now have a public reference to your false accusations and a proof to show you cannot deal on an even basis and like to make false accusations to simply stir up nonsense for other people when deals don't go your way.

I have dealt with plenty of people on even basis, and no one went crying 'scam' when the deal was not to their liking - if it didn't work, then we understood it as such and parted on even terms. Some have later come back and we managed to work something out. It was the offer that was made to even you before you went straight to acting like a little whore and started screaming left and right trying to provide lying description of my contract.

You provide no answers, only lying accusations based on what you think, and cry scam when it doesn't go your way. I only provide the clear straightforward basic framework and ask that people negotiate within those basic parameters.

No one is precluded from the negotiations except you.

Nor I do wish to be included. I'm an investor not a gambler... nothing wrong with it but it is not my thing.

I've provided link to definitions, you breach all of them. Persisting and babbling won't change it.

Then scram :)


Typical. What a transparent and obvious attempt at back pedaling by linking of all sources, wikipedia. What a 'clean' and 'proper' way to do things :D

Go and hide behind your next pathetic excuse you want to make for carelessly mouthing off before 'babbling' on someone else's thread. You clearly have no intent of dealing honestly unless it is to your advantage.

Make me. :)

Your lies are of no effect. As you can see you get no more replies nor offers as it is only natural.

LOL 'make me' :D

Little whore and its mouth is going places here.

Don't worry, got 2 more offers while you were mouthing off here lol

Of course of course :)

Sadly...good for you, not so good for them as they take unfair risks.

You need to keep running your mouth here and provide further evidence about how you tried to bitch and got called out on it :D

Where you going after you said you were leaving? :)

You stick around desperately trying to get the last word in on someone else's thread - and all the deals will sail on without your 'expertise'.

Got to admit, haven't seen this level of lack of backbone in a long time.

Glad to hear, can't say the same about you though. There are so many "FAIR!!" "TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE!!" around in this forum :(

English ain't your first language, weak fool :D

Lack of backbone. As in, you are a coward.

Weak and easy.

Now scram. Try to do business if you can :)

Make me. :)
Seriously, if you want to vent your rage you'd have better luck in getting into a plane and coming here. Other than that you are looking like a random forum warrior.

Hey do you know that, usually, scammers rage at the one discovering them and the forum enjoys a good laugh? You aren't a scammer (benefit of doubt) so apparently it also applies to liars, bad mannered and associated high level people.

They also do have a good laugh at delusional boy like you that slipped up with his mouth and now is trying to make a decent exit with couple pages worth of careless words that will follow you around here for a long time.

Watch your manners :)

'Make me' LOL what you need someone to break your arm to teach you something your mother didn't bother?

You brought this on yourself, so be grateful rest of the community isn't taking your little arguments seriously. They can easily rip it apart but they can't be bothered to talk down a stupid kid with an attitude problem like you :D

On the other hand, this is my thread and my loan offering, and no one wants to see some bitch like you running his mouth for the sake of doing so.

If you don't have what it takes do something other than mouthing off, than don't start what you can't finish. Either you do something else than keep holding on to my ankle trying to get the last word in like a bitch, or you scram :D

Get the picture? LOL what a fool.

Offer up for negotiations based on OP, first come first serve.

You are right, apparently I can barely read your babbling in the sea of users jumping in to offer you BTC after my first post...
...no wait, where are them?? Oh sure! Now they are all PMing you and in a while you will post something like:

"Offer filled by PM! Thanks everyone! Killerloop is a <insert your typical language>. See you later!" and close the thread.

I've seen this sooo many times  ;D

LOL this pussy :D

Don't worry - As stated, they will be posting the confirmations after the deal is finalized. Surely these more reputable members will like to see what you have to say about their participation :)

In the mean time, you either come up with something other than mouthing off, or think about why you don't have what it takes to do so, preferably in your empty self-moderated loan thread that never got filled from months ago and you now dragged up :D

Either you come up with something less effete, or you scram like a bitch :)

I've already knocked you down about your false collateral and terms, there is no reason for me to push it further and no amount of envy from you will change things.

I've dragged it up since money is now available :) If someone wants it then it is there, if not... I'll use it for something else! Maybe you can ask some of your gamblers to fetch money from me at 5% and loan it to you for a 10%  :D

HAHA fucking kid is delusional and got no balls to back up his mouth after I slapped him around a few times. How does it feel to get fucked publicly and ruin your business chances all because you didn't know your mouth from your feet?

Makes few careless statements, then attempt to mouth off about some weak standard you cannot even follow half way yourself :D

Got no balls, boy :) You need someone to break your arm and fix that attitude, but lucky you are brave criticizing everyone while doing nothing worthwhile on your own record.

Weak and mouthy, just the way you should be :D

Offer up and ongoing, deals to be finalized publicly upon agreement and negotiations.

Closed since my post showing reality. No further comments required.

Because everyone is now in cahoots with me - LOL typical.

Don't worry. Once they post here publicly, you can ask them directly why they lent me money and not borrow from you :)

I doubt they will bother to answer a kid like you so you need to clam that useless mouth of yours before you ruin yourself any further.


Started something he doesn't have the words or balls to finish, and now watching on the side lines as business goes on :D


Offer ongoing - negotiations and subsequent public confirmations required for the loan to be completed.

Dude, again, talking like that doesn't move me. Get on a plane and back words with action... other than that this is just an exercise in random bad words.

Envy won't do much for you too. Except for austin who I guess is a friend of yours no one will accept a deal this disadvantageous. No one is actually replying anymore.

Maybe there is something wrong with your terms?

LOL 'dude'.

Maybe you need to be careful who you think you can talk off to :D

If you want to really know how to back up your words, then put your information on the line as you suggested, and I will be sure to pay you a visit next time I am in the area. You started something you clearly thought you could finish with your mouth alone, so I will be happy to teach you otherwise if you question my character publicly.

If you are so interested but too scared, then stay tuned in the thread while hiding behind your computer and you can ask why and how to the publicly posted lenders yourself :)


Coward and now no chance at decent business in the future :D

John Rambo the Keyboard Warrior! I've sent you a PM with everything you need.


That's you, scammer. Mr. "Non liquidable collateral" xD

Alessandro Foschi
street Provinciale Volterrana, 27
Gambassi Terme
Florence
Italy

Posted publicly since you didn't have the backbone to do so while daring me to confront you :D

Once verified, we can talk face to face. Until then, keep yourself clean and washed. Can't trust a coward like you to even send a picture, or any proof haha

Kids these days are quite easy :)

Sure sure, bring your keyboard   ;D

I will bring you something good and memorable. You should know that :)

A cake? Just a notice: I'm lactose intolerant.
If it is that memorable I'll give you a free lesson on collateral and loans!

This game is getting boring though, outta here. Reply with your usual banter as you wish to calm your hormones. I'll keep watch for "other users" :)

Game? You really have no idea what you have gotten yourself into :)

Remember, you need to be careful not run your mouth so carelessly. It's a tip you would need to start practicing very soon :)

Being here alone makes you very very public indeed :D


PM sent afterwards:

He cannot shut himself up to save his life - with a mouth like this, it's a little wonder :D

Coward made an excuse to run and hide, can't even finish what he started. Let's  see how this turns out :)


While this is being dealt with, offer is still ongoing as of the moment. Feel free to post or PM and we will discuss details.

How can I finish this? I'm not the one witholding personal information  ;D

It's already done.

Now just keep yourself washed, as I said :)

If you have anything to say, do so publicly instead of sending PM with no substance like a bitch :D

Okay!
You are:

1) offering a unfair deal which should be avoided like the plague.
2) asking for information but unwilling to give up any (as it would go straight to the police of course)
3) issuing empty threats from the safety of your bedchamber to someone which is 10000 miles from your home.
4) associated keyboard warrior actions

I think this pretty much summarizes everything up. Feel free to add 4) as you like while I go for a couple hours to work.

Have a nice rage!

Haha - why, can't back up anything you say while hoping someone else slips up so you can go crying to the cops. Typical bitch move.

Your statements have been false, imaginary, and you are whining on other people's thread like a boy while running nothing of merit on your own.

Know your place, boy. You will learn about it soon :)


Keep watch, you are always hanging by men's ankles like a desperate woman with all your deals.


Offer on going, all serious suggestions welcome.

Closed since my post showing reality. No further comments required.

Resorting to editing and cheekily declaring 'closed' while the entire offer is not only ongoing, but portions have already been filled and is active :D

So desperate to get the last word in (or appear to do so to public) LOL

Don't worry, it will be clean and fast. You don't have to be so nervous about all of this because you just happened to be incapable of holding your lips and got yourself into something you want to run to the cops for :)


All serious investors, feel free to post/PM your offers. Negotiations and confirmations will take place during the process.

I don't think this loan poses a very good risk to the lender if you will not allow the lender (through the escrow) to liquidate the collateral in the event the value of the collateral falls below a certain point.

You are essentially applying for a margin loan which is a loan when you use a stock or a bond as collateral so you can purchase more stocks/bonds. With a margin loan the lender (usually your stock broker) will be able to sell the stocks/bonds in your account to cover your loan in any situation, not just when the price falls below a certain point. Although most brokerages will have a policy to attempt to contact you to get additional collateral in the event they wish to sell your collateral, they are not required to do so and can sell at any time for any reason. On here, lenders will generally only want the borrower to agree to allow them to sell the collateral in the event that it's value falls below a certain threshold, but would generally still be considered to be a margin loan.

If you are going to allow the collateral to be liquidated then you are essentially taking out a loan using your reputation as "proof" that you will repay. According to your OP you are asking to borrow a total of (just over) 7.5 BTC which is significantly more then your reputation should allow you to be trusted with at one time.

He know this very well my friend. But it is way easier to shift the risk on the lender instead of taking it for yourself :)

You forget that crypto currency scene and its volatility creates a condition that essentially destroys the traditional framework for these deals - a separate idea is needed to accurately adjust to is nature and draw up a contract that is essentially fair for both sides. Your opinion that this is a margin loan is incorrect by the fact that you must consider the exact environment in which you can apply such definitions with some reason.

You also forgot to mention the reward as well as risk that is both eliminated when I give out the collateral - I am myself forfeiting a chance to profit if the collateral goes above certain levels in the volatile market for a quick x2 or x3 if that happens, as it often does in crypto markets. I will only be able to get my collateral back if the escrow sees that I made my repayment on time - and the lender is assured of collateral disbursement through 3rd party escrow, an essential option which was somehow strangely rejected by some 'legitimate' people on these forums :D

Your points are valid only if you consider the profit and advantage of the lender and not the other party - and crypto currency environment as I said does not allow the traditional definitions of these contracts to be applied accurately due to the very different nature of its current 'markets'.

Also, not sure about you but I have seen members in the past with lower trust rating then either of us handling the amount easily double the portion I am asking for here, and have completed such deals successfully.

As I said, I try to reach the fairest deal possible within the given framework. I'd say, if the loaner party is willing to risk forfeiting profits from the largely volatile markets with the absolute basic consideration that collateral is not returned until full payment is made, then the lender can accept both the risk and reward of the markets as well. This is a negotiable contract and trade, and balance is essential.


'my friend' LOL finally found someone you could latch on to as support (because surely he thinks of you as a 'friend':D) instead of begging for customers in your long unfilled loan thread from few months ago :)

You bitched and moaned about leaving the thread with 'no further comment required' 'I am leaving' no less then half a dozen times now, and crawl back the moment someone writes a post that is their own opinion - making bitch moves again? :D

Try not to spill any dishes or mouth off at your customers again this time :) Not that you have long at your job anyway or your failed little exchange adventure.

Scram, whore :D

 

False, no counter arguement provided as it is impossible :)


Easily solvable using professional approach at collateral and margins.


If undisclosed ( ??? ) collateral become worthless you profit and lender is fucked


False, shows inexperience or attempted manipulation. These markets are no different from volatile ones fiat based.


False, shows inexperience or attempted manipulation. This approach puts you above the lender in case you do not honor the deal, and you aren't to be trusted


Make me. Envy me. You are as powerless as a spent candle.

Offer is closed. No further comments required.

'MAKE ME' LOL what are you a fucking 15 year old? Your mouth should learn to remain closed when you are not given permission to speak :)

Once again, hang your head in shame, itaker fool. Mouth running faster then your feet can keep up with.

'no different from fiat based' - Completely ignorant or willfully not mentioning the absurd amount of manipulation and fake volume within the exchanges. Ulterior motive, 'exchange employee'? :D

You approach someone without even reading the thread by your own admission, makes absurd requests at refusing 3rd party escrow, and when you have lost any trust with someone and your liquidation scheme is refused, you start bitching like a whore in heat more and more as you can't get the last word in :)

You must be used to being humiliated in public as every single one of your careless mouthy statements are now on public view - you may have noticed, if you weren't so desperate to pretend your view are being 'supported' - that he made no mention of you or your 'view' despite 3 pages of whining on your part after your rejection because you made a shitty offer :)

Bitch go back to your months old loan thread and beg people to take your money :D

A little reminder for our cheeky little itaker boy with a mouth problem. Note this was fair number of posts ago and he's still bitching using the same weak lines :)


Impotent and weak :D

To all interested parties, all negotiations and terms are up for discussion. Reference OP for general guideline, and PM/post if you have questions and suggestions.

I am not really sure what you are saying here, or how it is suppose to sell your loan.
Not true. You give your collateral to a trusted escrow and the trusted escrow can sell the collateral on your behalf if you request him to do so, the proceeds would first be used to repay the loan and any excess amounts would go to you. This is very similar to you having your collateral on an exchange, only that you are not able to withdraw your collateral to a wallet that you control unless you repay the loan.
See my above point. You are able to direct the escrow provider to sell the collateral if you no longer think the collateral is something you wish to own.
You have seen people take out loans for $5,100 worth of bitcoin? Under similar terms? Please post a link to a thread for proof. I generally speaking I have seen mostly very small loans ever end up working out. Like I said before your condition that the collateral will not be sold in the event that it's value drops below a certain point essentially makes this a loan that is secured by nothing more then your reputation that you will repay. Also again, your reputation does not support you being trusted with more then 7.5 BTC
Again I am not sure what you are trying to argue here. I don't want to accuse you of anything but it somewhat looks like you are trying to use "fancy" words in order to make yourself look more qualified to give your loan credibility.

Your points may be understandable to a degree, but not reasonable if you consider both sides of the deal.

The issue I am addressing is that there is not only severe volatility in the markets, but also severe manipulation, outright fraudulent practices that makes the normal 'market' rules almost void in realistic terms.

The fundamental issue of fair practice and balance in these deals must take such circumstantial conditions into account before considering what is legitimate and fair to both sides make the contract. In this case, the market situation makes the liquidation of collateral in case of its value drop (temporary or otherwise) an extremely risk for the one handing out the collateral. If the lender takes that into account, it is not hard to see how this deal can be made more fair if you discount the arbitrary liquidation as an option. There are risks and rewards at play, both decided at split second sometimes.

If btc value drops to a third of itself from the time when I start the loan while the collateral increases in price above that, do I somehow have the right to demand that the lender send the extra amount be sent? The complications are numerous if we begin discussing the possibilities of risk vs reward, so it would be a simpler exercise for all involved to both keep variables to a minimum due to the fact that there are no real guarantees for heavily volatile market such as ours. You mentioned numerous conditions that could be laid out to my 'advantage' - have you perhaps considered that rewards that I potentially forfeit with the collateral are not already counted into the deal?

I do not know what is fancy in your terms, but I can tell you I have laid out the basics as clearly as I can: That both sides reach a compromise and a deal where risks and benefits are roughly on equal terms, and agree to mutual conditions based on that regard within crypto currency market situation.

You seem to argue that collateral in this case will easily drop to nothing, while perhaps not seeing that it can easily also do a  x3 in one day. Ignoring or minimizing the reward potential and emphasizing the risk does not sound like a realistic or logical way to determine the validity of a loan offer.

In regards to past such loans or deals, feel free to search the profiles of prominent members or the archives - they are all there for you to see, and there have been good deals made and concluded on the conditions I described.

It's too bad some people simply cannot see past their juvenile understanding of how negotiations work, and simply resort to squealing 'scammer' if it is not 100% to their advantage. It's a balancing act on both sides, and when I have clearly laid out the conditions for the deal it is the job of the potential lender to understand what is explained and decide for himself if he is willing or not. I would certainly not call a lender a 'scammer' simply because they request certain conditions - however that changes if egregious and ignorant conditions are made such as not using a 3rd party escrow, lack of immediate funds to issue the loan (future funds based on nothing but promises), and a complete lack of risk on the part of the lender and much more risk on part of the borrower.

You may have noticed that I initially refrained from any accusations of particular individuals as 'scammers' even though their ignorant ideas of 'deals' could easily be labeled as collateral scams.

I would advise that you see from the perspective of all parties involved, not just that of the lender. Especially not someone who cannot even read the posted conditions and proceeds to mouth off at everyone because the deal is not to their advantage and has no business flipping his tongue at something he made several mistakes on :D

All offers ongoing, terms as stated on the OP. Negotiations of details welcome.

Not pertinent with the issue as I am about to explain in the next comment.


No one mentioned arbitrary liquidation but you.
Since this kind of deals usually uses an escrow (and it is fair to use one if the BORROWER is willing to pay his fees) rules are set at the beginning of the loan. Nothing is left to the arbitration of one party. On the opposite side by forbidding liquidation in case of value drop you introduce a risk factor which is, of course, inacceptable to the serious investor.


Of course you do.


I understand that talking like this may provide some relief but do you really think that this will make things change? Three users have already called you on this practice, this approach defies every logic in the margin trading market. Professional services like BitFinex which, your words: "operate in these manipulative and volatile market" use EXACTLY the approach we are describing here.

Also maybe your should control the war setting on your keyboard before posting.
ME, Eisenhower34 and another user express the same concept, so if my understanding of the issue at hand is juvenile so is theirs.  Calling others juvenile when you are into crypto business for less than a year is.... well, insert appropriate term here.  ::)

Apparently you conveniently didn't answer the part about the complications that come with starting down that road, though you might want to check yourself before mouthing off weak accusations next time :D

They didn't come through to 'support' you so much as you desperately latched onto them for 'help' when you couldn't get on your footing and never having anything to answer for all your mistakes up until now :)

Arbitration in this case is clearly about you deciding that something as one sided as market conditional liquidation is 'important' - clearly because it is in your favor while you are not quite so prepared to act on any of your 'claims' when I made offers otherwise. You weren't even willing to use an escrow, and when that was slapped down, you got uppity enough to ask for liquidation on the collateral in the event of it being in disadvantage for you - something that you failed to even read in the first place. After that was not done, you started bitching and publicly posted contradictory statements in regards to your attitude towards anything related to this offer - based on nothing more then any desperate excuse you could scrounge up (wikipedia definitions HAHA) and obviously little experience in negotiations or trading.

Now that some people are voiced their opinions, you latch on to them and pretend they are 'supporting' you :D They are not here to argue for you or your position - only to discuss and clarify the deal details. No serious investor would think of you as anything more then a boy playing at a man's game since it's obvious you are trying to find any excuse to bitch and moan.

You mouthed off, and is now paying the price for not knowing your place. Everyone else I am happy to explain the side of this deal squarely. You tried to check out like a bitch and came crawling back to see if anyone gave you 'support' how many times now? :D

Bitfinex professional? LOL you clearly have no idea what professional service means. You also have no idea what kind of corruption and back room dealings go on in crypto exchanges.

This lips for spine fool registered over 4 months later then myself, trust rating with lower history and sent feedback full of whining excuses and mouthy insults, thinks he can talk about 'experience' :)

Maybe you should learn to watch yourself before trying to give attitude where you are in over your head.

You don't try to substitute 'concept', one which you clearly do not understand, to hide behind for your obvious lack of backbone in standing by your initial position which was nothing more then a pathetic attempt at mouthing off at others :)

Keep coming back to the thread to get thrown down on the floor again and again because you can't find a face saving excuse to sneak out as you said you would at least 8 times now - it's providing some good entertainment while the deals are discussed and finalized. :D

Now get to your day job serving others - maybe they will throw you some crumbs now and then.

All feedbacks welcome, little crumbs for whores like you :D

Okay, as you wish.

Offer is closed. No further comments required. Look for serious advice elsewhere

Again with the bitch act :D

Bold it some more.

You are marked now, so check your back at all times boy :)

Offer is open to all and ongoing, interested parties negotiations of details and discussions welcome. Post here and discuss via PM, post confirmations once finalized.

Obviously the collateral isn't sufficient?

Can't think of any other reason why someone wouldn't have funded the loan yet apart from the above.

You can decide if you believe the collateral is to your liking. If you would like to know the details, let me know.


Desperate whore...real good scene you got going.


Offer ongoing, all interested parties post and PM, and I will send you the details.

Killerloop, why are you spamming his thread? You have said your bit, do not keep bumping this topic. Honeypot, stop trying to get the last word in.

I communicated with OP through PM. I did not think favourably on the loan terms and declined. If you intend to warn others, you should have done in a polite manner like Eisenhower did.

Anyways, stop this bickering, it has now become childish.

'Notifications' LOL

Keep coming back for more I do like seeing you crawl back after every time you say 'I AM LEAVING' :D

Now he thinks he's the one doing the harassment :)


Spammer has publicly agreed (for what it's worth) to watch his mouth.



As I have stated before, the user somehow thought it would be a good idea to take a refusal of offers via PM and make it a public issue with absolutely no basis and mistakes by his own admission. Some accusations deserve to be pursued until the end.

There is nothing to be said here other than he keeps running his mouth left and right after getting carelessly in over his head :)

This is my offering and I do have the job of answering all questions, regardless of their validity. I suppose he should not have been taken all that seriously to begin with :D




Offer ongoing, all interested parties post and PM for details.

iluvbitcoin has filled out 2 btc of the remaining portion. Terms are as follows:

2 btc (1.9 presently, 0.1 btc to follow shortly) loan amount, final repayment of 2.3 btc for 15% interest rate, maturity date on Dec 14th, 2014, GMT.

Negotiated collateral to be secured by 3rd party escrow maidak, liquidation condition is repayment not being made on time by the maturity date of Dec 14th, 2014 GMT.


iluvbitcoin, please confirm here as per agreement :)

confirmed

Confirmed.

All offers have been accepted - loan is now ongoing. Thank you to all those who are participating - the uniform maturity date is Dec 14th, 2014 GMT with respective contract details for each client.

Confirmed--thank you for the great communication and pleasant transaction!  Positive trust left and received--thank you again.

HoneyPot repaid the 2BTC I loaned him on time (well, 3 hours late, but nothing significant :D)
However, we did use an escrow :)

Honeypot has repaid the entire loan of 3.388 btc. There were some problems that delayed the repayment until now rather than the 14th, but they were banking issues and were not Honeypot's fault. Maidak is now free to return the collateral. Thank you for your business. :)

It is good that everything worked out for all parties involved. I was honestly somewhat doubtful that this loan was going to be repaid, but it is good I was proven wrong.

Now that the loan has been repaid, is it okay to say what the collateral was or does the OP still want that to be kept secret?

I would leave that up to Honeypot, in case he doesn't want to say it publicly.

I deeply thank you for your understanding, and once again appreciate you lending in my loan contract.


Next loan offering will be kept under much tighter supervision. This offer has now matured, and concluded :)


Thank you again!