Bitcoin Forum

Yeah obviously. A semi nobrainer would even know this
Demand supply price. Right?

Also i see ppl saying "stop converting btc to fiat" but what if btc was 500$ today so i go to expedia which i use often in real life , and pay 500$(1btc) next day btc drops to 300 and ill have to pay more than 1btc for the same trip.

Btc to fiat conversion is very necessary until btc stand as a currency itself. Btc is not a currencywether u guys hope to believe it or not.
Price also should reflect the demand.
Price is halved but transaction has doubled since last year.
I hope u guys know what this means

price doesn't matter for the practical future of Bitcoin. we are not talking about an investment instrument here. transaction is rising, so is the usage

No. What does it mean? (except that bitcoin adoption/usage has gone up)

As long as BTC keeps going down relative to fiat, then you need to spend BTC the instant you get it. So why don't you just spend fiat directly?

We need a btc economy.
If a product cost 1 btc, that's the reason of buying btc. If it's value is nominatedone in fiat no reasons to use btc at all

Its a fair question though, isn't it, even if widespread adoption is what we all would like to see - and when you add on the various transaction/conversion fees of acquiring the bitcoin in the first place/lack of buyer protection - well, it doesn't, as things stand currently, make btc massively attractive for purchases.

To the average Jo, why not spend fiat directly ?

Or will btc eventually pan out to be a store of wealth only, like gold - or a reserve currency maybe ? A speculative investment ?


The whole point, for me, was that it offered the potential to democratise money to the people


There were once promises/dreams that purchases made via btc would be cheaper - as retailers would pass on the lower tx fees on to consumers - but they haven't.

Why not ?

I agree
Thats what imsaying. Bitcoin needs its own economy to be its OWN currency.

you don't have to spend the BTC. you can also "lock" the price (hedging) with futures

Could you explain that to my Grandma please ? She is called Jo (Joanna) - and is very average.

Grandma isn't even able to learn to buy BTC....that's the big problem of BTC...and daddy doesn't want to, even if he could learn it, because there is no "oficial protection"

Sure, if you want all your BTC to be stolen because you sent it to a private key not under your exclusive control.

actualy, you only need to send 1/10 (in case of okcoin) because of 10x leverage (796 has even 20x). but i get your point.

The migration to a BTC only economy (even if it would ever happen) will not be instantaneous, you can't just wake up one day and everything is priced in bitcoins.

You need to take in consideration the exchange rate and then you have the following problem: If a BTC = 100 USD and there can only be max 21 million BTC (a lot of them already lost anyway), you can not move more than 2.1 bln. USD/transaction (even if you use all BTC that (will ever) exist), so how the can you do transactions that are larger than this amount .

As for current situation, only companies that deal only in BTC (including paying employees&taxes in BTC) would be able to price their products solely in bitcoins, so that is not going to happen soon.

Also bitcoin adoption for consumer purposes (e.g. buying stuff with btc) will only happen if there will be important discounts offered to buyers that uses BTC (vs. buyers using fiat). But that is either not going to happen soon as the lower transaction fees that you win as a seller (vs. creditcard payment) are then overwhelmed by the fees that the buyer need to pay in order to get bitcoins from fiat and tne ones that you need to pay in order to convert btc back to fiat (so in the end buyer ends up paying more in BTC than equivalent in fiat).  

This is something which is holding it back.



But, This is why a lot of companies need to offer a discount when paying with Bitcoin to give an incentive for buying BTC & spending straight away it would have to be a worthwhile discount though.

Understanding Bitcoin is what matters.

The first step is understanding bitcoin.
Price comes later on down the road.

It is a process of coin switching from weak hands to strong hands is all.

Application is Bitcoin foundation. The price is a matter of course.

Price is important depending on the amount of currency you have.

If I have a ten million dollar bank account, I don't care if a loaf of bread is $2 or $10. 

It's all relative.  :)

Price matters to everyone but what bitcoin stands for and the work that is behind it is the most important. It is still a new idea.

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/why-bitcoin-value-doesnt-matter/

I don't have a problem buying btc for the sole purpose of spending right away... particularly if it's from a company that is inclined to hodl (like overstock).

Does anyone have a list of companies that don't immediately dump all coins?

Right on.
A new idea that is still developing at that...

Yeah, and as long as BTC keeps going up relative to fiat, then you need to hoard the BTC you get. So why don't you just spend fiat instead?

Bitcoin-as-money is a failure. The real innovation that has a bright future is the-blockchain-as-a-trustless-payment-method.

Why are you even here?


What you just said......is not from someone who loves Bitcoin as a concept but thought he might get rich quick.

very true, I wish there was some kind of share which would make investing in blockchain as a pure tecnology possible

He actualy said that he believes in the concept of the blockchain. You using the verb "love" looks very strange. perhaps you "love" Bitcoin as a currency because you want to get rich yourself? just asking

To me the price isn't that important as 80% of my Bitcoin holdings are profit from trading.

I buy low and sell high, then cashout my initial investment to secure that. The profits in BTC will be sent to my cold storage wallets.

But the reality is that probably 90% of the people are in Bitcoin to make money.

The problem with that is if you are caught on the wrong foot during sharp price movements, all your profits could get wiped out.
People thought they were buying low when they bought at $400.

Why should price be any matter. The important thing is to have a fixed price whatever the price is

It didn't matter like everyone said but when you are stupid enough to invest all your life savings it matters a lot lol
Fluctuation of tens and twenties of dollars will give a heart bump

Oh come on guys - of course the price fuckin matters - whether you measure it in USD, YEN, barrels of oil or kilos of Atlantic mackerel.

If I pay £200 today for 1 bit coin and then come to spend my btc tomorrow - and its only worth £195 (plus fees of course i.e. effectively £193) -  then of course it matters.

Unless we are all just holding and holding and holding .....

And as we hold, hold and hold the £195 becomes £194, £193 ....

Lets at least say it for how it is.

This community is full of almost retarded ppl.
Ok.  Lets say u buy a chair at overstock for 320$ =1 btc.
Next week price rise to 1btc = 640 and i pay 0.5btc for the same product.
Im pretty sure it doesnt matter to u guys.

^ Yup.

People have to remember price "in relation to" kinda thing, regardless of BTC fluctuation itself.

There's plenty of alternative crypto that provides pretty accurate peg to USD. BitUSD or NuBits for example. So when buying things with these, you don't have to worry about fluctuation in currency value.

some people don't know the diference between "price doesn't matter for the future of Bitcoin" and "price doesn't matter for the Bitcoin holder"

First of all, price always matters in capitalism. I dont know why ypud say something like that. Would u not consider the PRICE when u someday finally purchase your OWN btc??
If youre talking about blockchain i agree.
You also said that transaction volume increased and so is usage. You know that bots trading also count as transaction volume right? We're not talking about daily human life transaction sir.
Also usage, whered u get that idea that usage has increased? Because expedia and dell accepts it?
I saw a post where someone at newegg said they got only few btc payments in months.
I thought we this community all knew about these. Apparently not

I am talking actualy about the tecnology, so yes, the blockchain. maybe I got the whole topic wrong and was offtopic.

Well if the price of bitcoin is low enough (or not high enough) then people will not invest their time and resources in the development of bitcoin, and people will have little reason to adopt bitcoin or for merchants to accept bitcoin

It's not about having a higher price, its about having a fixed price whatever that is for us to make a mark on world economy.

the value of the tecnology has nothing to do with the price, so I disagree......The valuation was nice to make Bitcoin known all over the world, but as we all know it actualy makes adoption for merciants almost impossible.

if price keep rising and dropping then big bussiness won't implement this payment method
for the future of bitcoin stability of bitcoin price is important
people want a stable currency

Honestly. I own decent amount of coins myself and i love the technology. Heck i even read how the protocol works. I enjoyed it.
But im coming to a conclusion that ive overrated bitcoin myself. Or maybe the world isnt ready..too early?
Overall i think it was/is a good experiment..

Price definitely is an important element, but the long term fundamentals of bitcoin is what truly matters.

the real big thing about blockchain might be other than "beeing a currency", for example: http://www.proofofexistence.com/about

I remember my dad started online traveling website like expedia back in 1995 in my home country. (Not usa)
His company was the only company in the country that had online booking. He was the first to bring web online booking to the country.  I mean it was prett amazing back then he was very impressed. I still remember him buying the booking engine from germany travel company he was excited
His company closed not too long after. No one booked online. It was all thru phone and mail. Actual paper documents.
I wonder what id been like if he started that little later.
I kinda relate this to bitcoin sometimes.
Not saying bitcoin is closed or failed but mass is not ready i think. Even when we explain and explain ppl dont get it. Theyre like so its a stock? Jesus f

Because I find the concept of the blockchain fascinating and, as I said, I think that it has a bright future. So, I want to keep up with the developments in this area.

I don't "love" Bitcoin. I have not invested a single cent in it and do not expect to "get rich quick" from it, either. As I said, I think that the attempt to replace money with it is a failure.

Never forget that Bitcoin is really two things - a currency and a payment method. Satoshi's paper talks very little about it as "money". It talks mostly about how to solve the double-spending problem, how you can have a payment method that does not require you to trust third parties. This is the truly revolutionary idea and this is what has a bright future - the public blockchain as a trustless payment method.

A whole economy can be built on this idea, with neither the producer, nor the consumer ever seeing a single "Bitcoin" as money. For both of them Bicoin can remain some remote, theoretical concept like IMF's SDRs. Behind the scenes, transactions can be transparently converted into cryptocoins (Bitcoin or any other altcoin - doesn't matter) and transferred via the blockchain, crossing international borders. Forcing the consumer to "buy Bitcoins" and spend them is stupid. Forcing the producer to "accept Bitcoins" and then wonder what to do with them and which way the price will go the next hour is stupid. Instead, we should concentrate on building an infrastructure based on the blockchain idea that hides all these technicalities from the transacting parties.

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