Bitcoin Forum

Okay, I'm being humorous with that one, but on a more serious note- what if we were to consider Bitcoin becomes widely successful and adopted worldwide. What if the government would one day see the value in having near infinite addresses for a finite amount of people in the world. What if governments started dolling out addresses to individuals like Social Security numbers and mandated that you use that address for your transactions.

Certainly businesses could be forced to use specific 'assigned' addresses, (it's easy enough to check if they aren't) and then the government can sit back and watch the block chain to asses their tax responsibility.

What if your Bitcoin address were required as a form of identification? We assume that Bitcoin has an element of anonymity because no one knows who owns the addresses, but governments could do a pretty good job of forcing individuals to keep public accounts and then watch closely.

It's anonymous only so long as addresses aren't assigned. If they are assigned though, the blockchain becomes a pretty incredible tool for surveillance of a population. 

The Mark of the Beast is a reference to the outcry from some Christian groups about how Social Security Numbers were the "mark of the beast". http://usa-the-republic.com/mark%20of%20beast/Forward.htm

Financial transactions and most other things are already under heavy surveillance anyway. What Bitcoin brings into game is that the ledger becomes public. There is no information asymmetry, no monopoly on surveillance. Anyone is welcome to track my transactions if they think they've got nothing better to do with their life.

I tend to generally agree, however I know that eventually given enough data points quite specific information about you can be gleaned. It being a public ledger means far more organizations could do it, not just governments. Sure perhaps marketers could use it, but if it became as widely adopted as a social security number, then perhaps that data transparency might not be something we really want (even casually).

I don't think there is anything we can particularly do about it at the moment, other then to keep it in mind. In italy for example, there is no free public wi-fi that doesn't require logging in with out some traceable information (generally a mobile phone account where they send you a confirmation SMS, but all mobile phones require scans of passports to get). It's not a leap to imagine rather a bitcoin address as your login (login and payment at the same time) and then all your data being tagged with your number as well.

http://www.notfooledbygovernment.com/
 (http://www.notfooledbygovernment.com/)

Steven Dudley Miller knows a thing or two about legal rights and the constitution, even if SSN is not the mark of the beast.

A friend of mine belongs to a Pentecostal church and is super-fundamentalist.  I recall him telling me this was in Revelations(?) somewhere though I could never find it myself (I'm not religious).

His explanation was similar to OP's where paper cash would be eliminated and you could only transact business if you were marked with a number.  I think he said something about actually being physically marked with the number.

Can someone point the thread to chapter and verse for this?  I'm curious.

I find the mechanics of this biblical prophecy hard to accept since there will always be face-to-face business whether you're marked or not.  After all, business happens when 2 people have something the other needs.  Who needs money at all in situations like that?

Just in case the admins of the Bible deleted what you're looking for, I pretty sure Google has indexed its pages. https://www.google.com/search?sugexp=chrome,mod=14&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=mark+of+the+beast+bible

I feel sorry for the guy waiting in line behind the guy with number 665.

You can do a lot of stuff with software, including track every penny that everyone spends.  The question is, what will people try to track and what will people tolerate having tracked.

I've already been down the "why don't you just google it" path as you so unhelpfully suggested.

The search results are filled with ranting by fundamentalists about 666, the anti-christ, etc. but nothing about money and bearing a number to conduct business.  There's too much religious noise on the web for an atheist to find the simplest things in the bible. :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cVFHl7aYuE

There ya go!

"Revelation 13:16-17
King James Version (KJV)

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."

I see it quite unlikely that in case of global adoption politicians would want their salary to registered bitcoin addresses. Imagine what politicians would look like if their actions would suddenly become transparent! No I don't share the OP's concerns.

No one can make BTC transactions without ascii Bernake, or hash of himself :D

Ok, I've heard enough conspiracy theories tonight... I should stop before going mental :)

Please put the guy in the blockchain somebody !

Right now, Bitcoin is money, the reward of a material pursuit, and has no bearing on the spiritual, except when it interferes with or distracts us from our spiritual goals. If any material attainment, including money, becomes the sole impelling force in our lives then God is not, and there is the sin. If Revelation is a future to come, the Beast is that which supplants God as the focus of your worship. Is that some leader or a monetary unit? It could be. No matter what the difficulty, you have the ability to choose the reward you seek, it is either spiritual or material.

Further research:
http://edgarcayce.org/ps2/mysticism_interpretating_revelation.html

How is that, exactly?

They cant force you to use the address they give out.

USG declares only BTC from "green addresses" (addresses a client [in this case, databases hosted by the USG] whitelists to allow immediate payment) are permitted to be used as legal tender. Merchants are not allowed to accept payment from addresses not in the national database. To register for a green address, you need to fill out a form. In part of that form, you need to tick a box indicating unwavering loyalty to your government, agreeing to the philosophy it espouses (peace, prosperity, and the eradication of religion). There's no reason a concept like Patriotism can't symbolize the concept of rejecting Christ in some scenarios.

It seems inevitable that wireless technology will soon make the economic benefits of having some type of transmitter within you far outweigh the privacy risks, and perhaps in effort to "protect your rights," the government will force all merchants to acquire specific licenses to receive the password (I doubt passwords be static at that time, but changing every millisecond -- everyone needs to be in sync, password to access the password may relate to code within your body, unique to you - and who knows what other compromises a merchant would need to make to get that license to access such sensitive data) to access your chip. Basically, whenever a merchant receives payment from a non-"green" address, the government would immediately know exactly who it is via an alerter system they developed, and almost certainly the location of the merchant operating unlawfully.

So, you've effectively had a number ingrained in you. You need that number to participate in the legal economy and pay taxes. Failing to do so would cause hardship, and perhaps death. Getting a green address assigned to you requires you to submit to the Anti-Christ, and you give testimony to that submission (rather, a rejection of Christ) merely by broadcasting your signal. Bitcoin is clearly of Satan.

Uhmm, no, they wouldn't.

As far as these 'green' addresses are concerned, exactly how does 'legal money' end up appearing on this collection of green addresses? (considering the fact that any money from non-green addresses would be considered illegal)

Almost certainly "DarkCoin" would spring up which is a blackmarket coin that competes with the government blockchain coin  :D

Heheh, and by common agreement in the protocol, DarkCoin would happily accept input coins from the regular strain as well. So eventually the government blockchain is gonna run dry :)

All merchants and citizens must register their pre-existing addresses and move all funds into one registered "green" address (perhaps the government could assign a wallet citizens must use once they register their Bitcoins, and retain the private key in case that citizen were to act illegally). Phase it out, give everyone x months to come into compliance with the new regulations, and launch massive education campaigns, so anyone operating illegally past that point made a conscious decision to operate against the USG. Registered merchants must have GPS embedded within as part of receiving their merchant license. So, when a "bad" tx hits the blockchain, police are immediately alerted.

Police could quickly and easily ensure all merchants are in compliance with regulations as merchants would have their own transmitting chip which assigns every human being to a unique private key. That private key becomes their identity, which the government may retain. (In regards to other uses, this would allow the USG to ensure child sex offenders are not near your children. Once the offender is near any individuals whose private key indicates that person as a child on the national database, police could be dispatched immediately.)

It's really not a matter of oppression or centralization, but a safety measure essential to securing our national sovereignty. Just as we would not let murderous drug traffickers in the country, Amer'ca must come together in defense of our sovereignty when it comes to preventing those same murderous drug traffickers to fund their anti-American operations. This bill is essential, but I won't lie -- this bill does indeed lessen some privacy, which criminals would not want - BUT, this bill allows us to continue flourishing as a democratic and freedom-loving nation, permitting us to preserve and enjoy the freedoms prescribed to us by our Constitution, and stop the evil-doers who want to do harm to our country. Amer'ca will not waver in the face of terrorism, but strike decisively with the economic and military might which can only be found here - Land of the Free, Home of the Brave.

FLAW DETECTED.

If somebody registers 20 addresses, how would anyone know that they didn't have another 300 addresses that they keep hidden?

Bitcoin is a form of cash and just as easy to hide as any other form of cash. Criminals often keep seperate sets of books with cash income. That's why there are audits.

They can keep them hidden, but they can't use them to transact with registered (legal) merchants, nor can they be used to pay taxes. Once an unregistered address interacts with a registered merchant address, the police are immediately summoned and the block will not be processed by government miners (they don't need to profit off mining, and can do it as a "public service." Once they adopt Bitcoin as the official currency of Satan/America, they will be able to throw a LOT of cash at this, leaving little incentive for profit-centric entities to mine). When an individual submits his addresses, he testifies that those are the only addresses he controls. It would be likely not be difficult for government to prevent individual-to-individual transactions simply by having enough hashing power to be able to effectively dictate which transactions are processed.

(as an aside, citizens should be required to turn in their wallets' private keys when registering their addresses. Additionally, there is no reason the government cannot easily implement [or have corporations implement] something which can detect whatever the government wants to call "taint," or have merchants use payment processing software which will not accept funds from addresses not in the database, though it will send an immediate alert to the police.)

The government would be able to effectively reverse transactions (if citizens are required to submit private keys). Since funds can't go from merchants to unregistered individuals, petty theft of "cash" would pretty much be eliminated. Even if someone stole the funds to an individual account, they'd immediately be summoning the police, which makes the act much more complicated for the average petty criminal. It may also permit tax reports to be automated given the government knows exactly where everything's going if everyone's registered in a database. Transaction flags could be included which indicate to the IRS supercomputers how to tax the transactions.

I'm pretty sure we've just found a way to get Chuck Schumer and his buddies to begin supporting bitcoin.

Not sure if trolling  :D

Haha, dude!

Just not with the green addresses of merchants, you mean.

Oh dear, yes, that will certainly keep them from using non-green addresses!

Ha, so Bitcoin would essentially become dependent of governments again? Not gonna happen sir :)
There will be plenty of private transaction-processing nodes all over the world.

The Bitcoin system cannot be manipulated by single organizations or authorities, not because of any arbitrary rules, but simply by design. They can summon the police all they want. Decentralized P2P traffic is here to stay, whether someone else wants it or not.

I think you strongly underestimate the hashing power of all individual bitcoin users combined.

And besides, it doesn't matter how much hashing power the government gets. They can deny to confirm transactions all they want. All that matters is that there is enough hashing power delivered by others, to confirm any pending transactions. Governments adding more and more hashing power for themselves, does not in any way decrease the hasing power of others.

Oh, haha, right! ;D

There is no reason why any user or merchant would not choose to complete ignore whatever tainting system the government comes up with.
And government-restricted payment processing software? Why would they stick to that. Nothing prevents them from using an alternative system (for their additional, non-registered addresses) on the side.

Keeps getting better and better ;D You know what would actually happen? Any addresses with compromised private keys (because they were handed over to the government) will me marked as 'unsafe' and that is the portion of Bitcoin that will become ignored by the rest of the network. Good luck government & police. Reverse all you want. In the mean time we'll stick to our own subsytem that you don't know about and have no control over whatsoever, thank you very much.

That is in block 138,725 from July 30, 2011:
 - http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/3384/153

Besides the point I already made, I am amused by the passive-aggressive stance toward governemt (presumably mostly by Americans).  I wonder when some noses and windows will break instead of armchair complaints. If you don't like where things are going in your society, do something about it, or find a better place and move.

Why do you think we are here in Bitcoinland?

It's quite easy- most countries run spot tax inspections on business to check that they aren't running software on their registers to re-write transactions, and to see that they are keeping records and generally doing their accounting legit.

Imagine a restaurant using bitcoin, a Tax inspector simply comes in, orders lunch, goes to pay and takes the receipt. He/she immediately checks the block chain to see if the transaction was recorded under the businesses registered address. It's enough to have the threat of tax inspectors with hefty fines to make most businesses forgo the risk of malfeasance.

Also as most businesses have suppliers, it's not hard for the tax authorities to trace the money from a tomato farmer right on up to your lunch time salad. Right now businesses need to keep meticulous receipts, it would be much easier if the IRS could just watch the money with their computers. Currently as it stands in most places its a bit of work for the tax authorities to get your bank statements to track your cash. (apparently in greece the banks actively screw the government by sending wrong forms, delaying, etc...)

This verse seems prophetic about Bitcoin:

Revelations 42:8-12

"For he who shall hold the key shall enter the crypt. And all possessions shall be transacted upon by this act. The beast shall break the chains and rise up from the mount. And every bit shall be paid through a number set upon your person."

Damn! You just found my Brain Wallet!  ;D

Sounds like SolidCoin 4

Every heard of difficulty?

That would just slow down non-government transactions, and make them more secure once confirmed by anyone. Kinda like the Mystery Miner who doesn't include new transactions.

This whole thread is silly. "Sorry officer, my computer got hacked and they stole all my bitcoins." An easy one-way gate into the black market will always be available. All the government would accomplish would be to legitimize cryptocurrency and broaden its use. Just for shits and giggles, I would intentionally poison some high-profile green addresses with tainted coins too. People who actually launder money normally through businesses would have a field day.

Ultimately, we would have people with brainwallets performing labor for one another, with no way to determine why they do what they do.

:) Voluntary economy with Bitcoin makes sense. Breaking noses and windows, justifying a harsh gov't response does not. I suspect we're a far, far distance away from again murdering tax collectors by pouring hot tar on them and dragging their bodies through public centers. Well, there was that Joe Stack guy two or three years ago... but that guy was crazy. Tar/feather/murder of tax collectors is clearly a principled action, not an insanely callous one. (trololo)

I've tried to discuss this before, see below, and subsequent replies and rebuttals to that thread.  I've never been completely satisfied that there is a defense against this attack.  In short, you'd end up with an 'official' blockchain, where gov't salaries would be paid, and tax would have to be paid in that chain.  And a black market chain, obviously illegal - the 'blackchain'  :)

From my understanding of the "Mark of the Beast". I've had scholars tell me the "Mark" wont be anything that someone could just read from the bible and say "Oh that's the mark of the beast! Lets not participate in that!". I've been told it was something that won't be an actual mark either(which could be the possibility of Bitcoin addresses attached to your "legal identity").

As hardcore christian I use to be and believe all that stuff; Recent life changing experiences(including near death and ego death experiences) has shown me their is something far much greater on the other side then what is written from any book. With that said, this scenario of the government tracking my Bitcoins, from one traceable address would make life pretty difficult especially if I lost my private key or my wallet usb stick got lost or stolen.


PS. How to you prevent "Stolen" coins from reaching your address unknowingly?
Considering the government can send you tainted BTCs to anyone and then be say they have proof your doing business with a felon or terrorist or w/e scary people are called these days.

Anyone could do it.

1. Create a wallet that can't be traced back to yourself.
2. Report a bitcoin theft and send those coins to the anonymous wallet.
3. Wait for the coins to be marked as tainted.
4. Send a satoshi to anyone you want to get in trouble.
5. Report this "suspicious" activity and call for an investigation/audit.

See i didn't even think of that -- and that is a very scary scenario -- my own neighbors could hate me and send me to jail nice point edd.

Even worse, they could use some of that taint to send you a gift from Silk Road and an anonymous tip to the DEA.

All I was saying is that Kazimir's statement that "Governments adding more and more hashing power for themselves, does not in any way decrease the hasing power of others." is false.  It does decrease the effectiveness of the hashing power of others.

But I agree this thread is stupid and I don't feel like arguing about our imaginations any longer.  MoonShadow wins biggest imagination, and I pray he loses when it comes to accuracy.

This wouldn't stop one-on-one bartering (in secret if needed), but it would stop anyone from buying and selling with whatever is the accepted national or global currency [no online, telephone or storefront purchasing.. or whatever social medium that can be controlled...]. That's pretty rough. In such a society, paper currency would not be worth anything and therefore not bartering with, and so you would be pretty much resorting to trading tangible goods with people you know. ... With the escalated fear mongering on terrorism, financial crisis, frauds... and ID theft..etc... this will not be too hard to sell to governments in the end.

You might wonder how this could be enforced in the days that that scripture was written (~2000 years ago). Back then, it would obviously have to be  a tattoo. But what would the point be? How could that be authenticated? And what's to prevent side busineeses using the normal everyday [paper or coin] currency? No need to barter when you have the accepted currency. So, again, how could it be done at the time? Maybe, a mass of public records at every store front listing every citizen with a mark? A centurian guard at each register to verify/authenticate the mark? Only today does that technologically exist and make it practically possible.

It's interesting that in the KJV as quote above, the mark is "in" the right hand.  I don't know. It doesn't matter on or in the right hand. This may be a translation nuance as the KJV was using English in the year 1611...but it's a bit intriguing if it isn't that simple. 2000 years ago, a mark "in" the hand would make no sense. Today, tiny RFID chips as you know are already being, for whatever reasons, implanted in the meaty part of a person's hand between the thumb and index.

Other food for thought.....

Revelation 16:1-2 (KJV)
"1And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image."

A little curious about the sores of those that accept the mark. Could it be physically related to the mark itelf? i.e. The RF in RFID? or the material it is made of.

||bit

The cops already plant DNA on crime scenes.

And does it grow?  :P

If public servants had official bitcoin addresses I bet silk road would be sending them dirty coins just for the lulz. Oh I see charles schumer has coins from buying heroin.....and child porn.

"16 Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, 17 so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name."
That's the New King James Version, and it says "on".  I'd be interested to see the original Greek words, and maybe attempt to decipher whether it truly should be in or on?

Regardless, it does say "the name of the beast or the number of its name" is what the mark will be made up of.  So, how exactly could the mark be unique for each person if the Bible explicitly states that it will be the name/number of the beast?

http://arstechnica.com/science/2007/09/rfid-implants-linked-to-cancer-the-lowdown/ (http://arstechnica.com/science/2007/09/rfid-implants-linked-to-cancer-the-lowdown/)

This is one reason RFID implants will never go ahead no matter how many politicians have wet dreams about them.

Yeah, the Greek would be interesting.

Anyway, the scripture describes the mark in one way, but I don't think that scripture limits it in the respect of having any identifying component per individual. For example, any U.S. dollar bill you find has generic markings that we use to identify what it is, yet each bill also includes unique numbers that identify any one bill from another.  Regaarding the mark of the beast, as a mark that solely designated allegiance or worship, how could that kind of mark make commerce enforecable in the way that people could not buy or sell without it? I don't think such a generic mark would prevent buying and selling of unmarked people. Unless, of course, it is meant in a legal sense. I guess there could be a severe penalty [death?] to merchants if they were caught of course. That would sway a merchant from selling to an unmarked person, just in case it was a random check by authorities. But that woudl require a lot of resources and it would not be popular with people. It would not stop merchants from selling to unmarked people he/she knew personally weren't a risk to buy from or sell to. i.e. It would just be a black market, unmarked peopel having to buy/sell food, yet still having use of the accepted form of cash. So, we can ask the question: "What must be, for what is, to be what it is?", And I can't say it "must be", but it seems the best [most doable] answer is that an identifying component would be associated with the mark.

I wonder if Isaac Newton [alive 1624 - 1727] wrote on this. He believed in scripture, and  prophecy. And he wrote extensively on it.  For example, in his writings, he used a different prophetic passage to argue that it must mean people would one day be able to travel at speeds of at least 50mph. In his day, and all days prior of course, the fasted mode of travel for man was on a horse. A horse can run a sustained pace of maybe 35mph (though I'm not sure how far that can be sustained). Anyway, Voltaire apparently ridiculed Newton about that possibility, and that his Chrisitan beliefs were affecting his reason. Of course, we know the rest of the story. Anyway, I'm not motivated to research it just yet, but it would be interesting to know if he did comment/write on it.

||bit

There've also been studies showing cell phones being linked to cancer. Doesn't stop the government from issuing free phones.

I dunno about the thread but i say it is time to launch a new Crusade against the evil to defend the Christendom!

Let's do like this and remember, god wills it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuoLzx0mcho

I thought I would bring this topic back following this article on CNN:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-31322_3-57581952-256/heres-why-bitcoin-is-the-future-of-money/

Something I brought up at the last conference was that the more government and 'normal' people get into bitcoin, the less power the 'core bit coiners' (the idealists) will have in determining the future of bitcoin. Bitcoin is free an democratic society- at the moment. Will it always be so?

how would they force a business to use an address?

My BFL order number has a 666 in it.  8)

I really see a problem at the moment as Fincen regulation kind of forces you to stay in Bitcoin (not trade for fiat), we have kind of a problem to bootstrap bitcoin further. Sure, so far it is just one country and just a joke of a regulation when it comes to enforcement but this fiat-gateway is what we have to get rid of asap.

Think of it: If you want to cut the state out of the loop, you have to be "all in" and do all your business in bitcoins. A long way to go for most people to do so. If you are all in and only cash out for your daily needs, you touch exchanges that are under total control by national states. This can only be broken by concepts like zerocoin or some smart and risky laundering of coins with existing methods.

I did not read much into zerocoin but the concept is very very intriguing and according to all I know about zero knowledge protocols (pun not intended ;) ) this could really work so I hope it gets implemented asap!

Wow this is actually fairly easy to do! woooo! dont get on a fellow BTC'ers bad side or you might get some MDMA sent over to you wrapped in child porn.

What about Zerocoin? isnt this type of thing avoidable by anonymizing all transactions?

Also, i read somewhere on this board something about leaving a back door open for "authorities" in case any fraud or other illegal activity occurs while using zerocoin... facepalm

Regulated bank transfer exchanges are convenient, but worst case scenario we could use a web of trust like Bitcoin-OTC or Ripple and exchange physical cash.

Check your receipts and send in undercover agents to pretend to be customers to see what address your using.

Here's my two satoshis... Forgive me if this was already posted, but I had a similar conversation with a friend of mine about Bitcoin and this was my response.

Bitcoin, as far as I understand it, can never work like the MOTB, because the payment system described by the MOTB is actually the opposite of Bitcoin. Think about it this way: the MOTB requires the store or whatever to scan you and deduct the money from your account, whereas Bitcoin requires the person to *send* the money to the store.

Since the two systems essentially are polar opposites, my response to my friend was that Bitcoin is actually the last great chance humanity has to adopt a system that could run counter to a MOTB scheme.

What *could* become the MOTB is something like Canada's MintChip. Does this make sense? What are your guys' thoughts?

At least the bitcoin we have today will never ever function as a tool for all transactions worldwide. Insofar we are safe from being forced to do every transaction via the blockchain.

I'm not understanding this reply. If Bitcoin did become a universal, global payment system, would we all have the blockchain in our foreheads or hands?

I'm not even sure it would be feasible to have a hardware wallet embedded in that way.

And being forced to use Bitcoin would only satisfy one requirement for the MOTB. It still is impossible for it to satisfy the other criteria: being forced to have a mark in the forehead or hand to buy or sell. Like I said, since an embedded hardware wallet couldn't function with Bitcoin, then Bitcoin couldn't be the MOTB.

For an implantable device to function for commerce, the seller would have to scan and deduct from the buyer... and Bitcoin functions in the opposite direction (buyer sends to seller).

Or maybe I'm not fully understanding your response... It appears that there was a hint of sarcasm in your reply, but I'm not going to jump to conclusions.

I have already pondered this.

All bar codes being used right now already have 666 embedded in them.  There are two lines at the beginning, two lines in the middle and two lines at the end without any numbers on them but they are equal to the "6" seen on the last half of a bar code (for some reason the 6 at the beginning of bar codes do not have the same line size) but nevertheless, it is enough to make one uneasy.

That said, I think BTC will become wildly popular.  It will be anonymous and governments will NOT like that.  So, in order to make sure they can keep their control over their minions they will force everyone to put a bar code (that already has 666 on it) on their hands or heads and then they can keep track that way, because they will not be able to monitor it any other way.

So, does the Bible in a sense  confirm the success of BTC or some other crypotcurrency in a way?  It is something I have thought of.

Personally, I think more Christians should be buying BTC.  It might be helpful to remain "anonymous" a little while longer anyways.  Just my thoughts on this.

Mark of the BTC  :o

Wrong title.
Bitcoin is good fiat is evil.

2 favourite subjects in one thread!

Looking at Hollywood depictions of how satan does control it tends to involve way superior maths and taking advantage of faulty human psychology. We see a lot of that here.

Don't forget to have a look at other religions view of Satan; Jewish, the various Islam sects and so on. Can someone chime in?
There's also the alien conspiracy line to mix in if we want - breeding humanity, control by money... somewhat got us between a rock and a hard place but also not so almighty.

So Satan can crack AES and it's game over would be one thing.

It does look a lot like people are manipulated by numbers. Bitcoin could fit into it but I think whatever is available would be used anyway - not so different to stock markets.

If you have a view that Satan is also positive in that all negatives have an upside you can work it round to an education viewpoint. Bit harsh of a lesson in some cases but advocate would say life is harsh anyway. I'd like to know what life would be like left on it's own - does a wolf stay a wolf or turn into a dog eventually?

Someone on this thread earlier mentioned that they didn't feel forced use would be such a threat because people can always transact in other ways. Have you ever tried to do things like that in real life? Sometimes it's fine, sometimes people just don't trust you; try to pay for a house in cash maybe you're a drug dealer, gold - did you steal it. So it needs mind control too.

Bitcoin is a game changer for the world but I feel that yes, if it become very popular it would be used against us, be that from Satan, oligograph governments or one via the other, whatever. That's why you got to stay ahead of the curve. It might be easier motivation to imagine that the force pushing you beyond the curve is life rather than Satan or maybe it's better the other way round for you.

If you're thinking positive then projects and opportunities like Bitcoin will just come to you. That's what praying's about - not asking some bearded chuff for a favor but bringing in what you want to happen by thinking about it in the efficient way to elicit change. So, visualise what you would like Bitcoin to be and imagine the positive feeling that you might get as if it were now for the win.

Ripple is more in sync as being "centralized" to become MOTB. But most likely MOTB will be a crypto currency and I have my suspicion it will come from the UN or a "respected" organization like that. If it comes from the US suspicion will arise and some countries would refuse to use it. But the lies from the UN makes it the perfect MOM for MOTB.

Do not forget, the UN asked to have their own drones, for peace of course! http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/un-seeks-drones-for-peacekeeping-missions/2013/01/08/39575660-599e-11e2-88d0-c4cf65c3ad15_story.html

Years ago I learned that the ancient Hebrew and/or Sumarian symbol for the number six, looks alot like the letter 'w'.

www = 666  :o

Looks like i might not have been so far off the mark after all:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=332918.msg3571615#msg3571615 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=332918.msg3571615#msg3571615)

Sorry for the bump of a old thread but came across this topic as Bitcoin became a discussion at my Men's Christian group.

While I agree with the post above mostly, another issue that was brought up on another site, was the fact that the new Bitcoin ATMs require that your palm is scanned for verification and to "prevent" money laundering. It palms scanning or scanning of the eyes get worked in during regulation of Bitcoin by governments then this could line up with the Bible verse very nicely

No idea if you are trolling or what, but I don't see what the security measures that an ATM device uses to ensure you aren't going to pass it fake money has to do with bitcoin or the Bible.

If I set up Ye Olde Curiosity Shoppe but only allow my customers to buy stuff with bitcoin if they know the secret handshake, it says about as much about bitcoin as does this.

Similarly all the documents that an exchange like Bitstamp or Kraken will ask for is not inherently part of bitcoin either.

Whether giving your biometrics to some random ATM company is a good idea is a whole other topic. Bottom line is it's not part of Bitcoin, it's part of that company's procedures.

So over 2000 years ago the Bible predicted the you would not be able to trade for goods and services without the mark of the beast. Think about that 2000 years ago, when you could just walk down the road and trade your apple for an orange. So the Bible predicted a system 2000 years into the future like what we have now.

Think about that. I'm just saying....

Rob ::)

Heh - that's what I was just thinking when re-reading this relic of a thread. We've had legal tender laws for a while, now. They may've had legal tender laws way back then, too... unsure.

Huh?  We don't currently have a system like what is describe in the bible as the mark of the beast.

dude, why do you think that satoshi nakamoto has not spent even a mBTC ? any real japanese dude i know would've partied with sake and babes with that coin. why do you think that the crypto protocol was cooked up by the NSA? sha-256.

Yes, it is physically impossible to crack the bitcoin encryption with a brute force attack, BUT what if there is a mathematical back door in sha-256? Then, a brute force attack would not be necessary. To oversimply for illustration;

For this number sequence; 1 2 4 8 16 32, a brute force attack would be check all digits from 0 to 32 for the first digit, then repeat for the second, then repeat for the third, etc. This would take a long time, but a back door would be to multiply the first number by 2, then the second number by 2, then the third by 2. All you would have to guess is the first number to get all the others using this mathematical back door. Now, I'm sure that bitcoin's encryption involves a lot more complicated math, but this illustration should show the concept of how this could be accomplished.

bitcoin is the mark of the beast and satoshi nakamoto is the NSA. you and i are going straight to hell for profiteering off of bitcoin. my name is satan, oops, I mean Stan.

Can you tattoo your Bitcoin public key in a QR code to your hand? Think about it??? Some day we will not be able to buy and sell with out the mark of the beast, I mean public key. The two might be the same..some day.

Absolutely the mark of the "Beast".

Mark my words - BTC will climb to $666 only to be struck down by the "Beast" himself.  :o

The"Mark of the Beast" is in the hand, and in the forehead, and is the worship of the anti-christ so that you can do business with "the" one-world currency.

As far as I know, you don't have to worship anything to buy or use Bitcoin.

You dont have to worship anything to use the mark of the beast.  You just need it to buy and sell.

-B-

Guess where the price of BTC has returned to, hmmmh?

This kind of bullshit should be in the off-topic section.

http://memedad.com/meme/134028

you do realize that babble is a complete work of fiction which has been copied and recopied and changed countless times over the centuries to suit whoever is needing it to commit atrocities at the time, don't you? It is not real.

Tinfoil hat humor, what if Mark Karpeles IS the Mark of the Beast? :D

Mark Dice - "Bitcoin Created by Illuminati to Roll out Cashless Society & Mark of the Beast?"

http://youtu.be/tZmxLbeyF4c

Well, lots of people i try introducing to bitcoins full my head with this talk, about the mark of the beast and end time and the devils money. Well i am not alone in this  situation, so that feels good!

Which we must change and will and remain decentralized.

And anonymity that can't be broken by the government.

??? My mind would be totally blown if someone could solve that. To me, that's the equivalent of someone "walking" upside-down on the water by moving his hair as tens of thousands of tiny legs.

This chick thinks her friend is the first to bring up this theory:

http://cointelegraph.com/news/114713/is-bitcoin-the-mark-of-the-beast-op-ed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexagesimal#Babylonian_mathematics
http://img.techpowerup.org/150701/Capture.jpg

www = 666

Centuries ago, we were fooled into trading our prosperity for worthless paper.

Today, it's worthless computer data.

As a numerologist and a conspiraracy theorist, you will always find "clues" that lead you to whatever you want to believe. For example, 21 is a number linked to pope/vatican council, so you could say, oh, it's so clear, 21 million coins because of that. Also, 21 is the amount of grams a body losses after dying, some say is the weight "of the soul". See, you can come up with tons of theories in a second with numerology.

omg yea, back when the internet was just booming the internet was an evil tool and only had adult porn so humans could loose all sense of education and moral, now bitcoin is the mark of the beast i had fun reading the article on cointelegraph.

His concerns do have a reason, there is no such bullshit in this post. He worried that one day in a future when they government adopt bitcoin as a legit currency, how they would treat the bitcoin architecture, however the main purpose of bitcoin invention is to curb the self-governing system.

Wow.  I posted this just over 3 years ago.  Seems like a lifetime.

technically it is called 'functionality creep' ..

if you're worried about the number of the beast, I'd say many Corporations are pretty beastly

This is a lack of understanding of the bible and a lack of understanding about bitcoin. I have friends who have this opinion until we talk about it.