Bitcoin Forum

I don't see much push for that in recent months, has the community given up?

I like the concept a lot and really wish someone would push it on.

I'm still on it, the new NoirShares uses modified Momentum PoW algorithm which is currently CPU only.

If you are planning an alt I would recommend either of the three versions of momentum : Memorycoin , NoirShares & ProtoShares

If you do protoshares or NoirShares, maybe put some merged mining so people can maximise profits.

Is it a requirement for someone who develops a gpu miner to release it to the public without profit? I encourage people to develop and sell their code. Much like what happened with PTS.

Other than that, go my way, I keep making changes that render GPU mining inefficient.

Merged mining? I've only seen that on scrypt and sha , possible with your algorithm? Has anyone actually tested GPU resistance on yours ?

To be CPU friendly you need to mostly avoid computation (which ASICs and GPUs excel at)
and focus on random access latency to hundreds of MB of DRAM (which CPUs excel at).

Cuckoo Cycle does that and is instantly verifiable. See https://github.com/tromp/cuckoo for details.

is very hard for only use cpu mining now throught technology

you know , all the cpu only coin finally become gpu coin >:(

Bytecent is cpu only, and actually quite possible to mine with a laptop.

If you don't want complicated stuff just go for GPU hard algorithms, while not completely CPU only, the GPU advantage is quite small.

The current version I use was developed by Dan, Freetrade and modified by a gpu miner dev. Even with CPU mining , it effectively relies more on luck than processor power.

when usually I read "modified by a gpu miner dev" (to make it gpu hard), I always think "yeah right... good one..."  ;D

Anyhow, you probably made a gpu dev very happy  ;D (well... keeping in mind that the last time at look at noirshares, there was 25% gpu dev fee... may-be he just doesn't care, he always raped the coins no matter what...  ;D)

So who else would be expected to know how to code against gpu implementation?

Also YOU ARE A LIAR , there was never a mining fee for NRS.

CPU mining would probably still be available on new or unpopular altcoins.

Check out MagiCoin:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=735170.0;topicseen (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=735170.0;topicseen)

this is funny how fast you are to jump on the "you are a liar" stuff... I might I found something here and people dealing with your coin should really be worried   ;D
Also I have absolutely no reason to lie on gpu miner fee (who gives the shit ?). I mine NRS after launch and there was a gpu miner with 25% fee, I even complained about it as each time it got disconnected, it was just restarting mining for the gpu dev (that a smart one  ;D).
But if you don't know it is ok to say "I don't know", no reason to call others "liar" over your own ignorance.


To be honest, if someone was asking me to make a cpu only coin, gpu resistant. I would probably refuse... (well with enough btc...  ;D) because having a gpu dev doing this would probably cause more FUD on the coin than anything else.

Memorycoin was the only coin that had botnetless CPU mining.
Other than that, CPU mining is long botted (dead)

I managed to get a copy of the original NRS and the material surrounding momentum.

I found lots of miners, some you pay some you don't, some mine a bit to some hard coded address , some whack shit.

but the actual momentum is pretty interesting, I am testing out the difference between GPU vs CPU and while the difference is noticeable, it's not as bad as I've seen elsewhere.

Barwizi, why did you change it?

So you mean the memorycoin implementation is better? I haven't had a chance to really look at the difference.

I'll test it out later , I want to first compare the balances of my gpu vs cpu NoirShares 1.0 .

Monero is CPU minable. GPU does not have much advantage. CPU mining is more efficient in terms of hash/J.

That's what the CPU miners want you to think. They are lurking with their price charts to determine exactly when AWS instances become profitable. The big guys can fire up hundreds of instances within 30 seconds.

Final verdict on first implementation of momentum:

Pretty good at discouraging GPU  if the price is right, but if it ever goes high enough, then the difference between cpu and GPU becomes more apparent. Overall I guess it gets 6.5-7 / 10

I'll be testing memorycoin now and I'll post about my findings later. Throughout the day tomorrow I'll test all the suggested coins and algorithms respectively.

I wonder if there's a way of reducing the effectiveness of botnets. Any ideas guys ?

Btw , thanks for all the replies, the information is very useful

Also, why does it seem like all cpu coins start with very low difficulty? Almost zero difficulty, meaning that they were all instamined by those in the know.

Anyone ever mined HeavyCoin?

you can't really reduce the effectiveness of botnets without hurting cpu/gpu ratio.
One attempt was done to create an antibotnet coin (so to speak) by requiring huge amount of memory (>32Gb, more than most computer, mine included... ) assuming botnets runs on standard to low-end computers... but that was just stupid, in my opinion...

I mined Heavycoin, but it was already a gpu coin...
But at the time when HVC got launched there wasn't 10 coins/day, so it was rather easy to follow and spot on the announcement thread, now it is just madness. Nevertheless some were ninja launched: x13, fugue (RIP) and some other with low diff.
Actually the low diff is justifiable by the fact that there is only cpu at launch, so you need a lower difficulty...

Today Kryptohash a new false cpu only coin was released (GPU coin without miners is more exact... keccak+ long hash to be hashed through sha256), but I discovered it discussing other things on irc... so now, yes it is probably better to be in the know to find those coins...

Not really. There are more Shitcoins than days on a calendar. Just ignore them, trade on top marketcaps. Easy!

I just finished testing HeavyCoin and Memorycoin, I think there is a future for momentum. Barwizi's NoirShares 2.0 version left me with some questions though.

Memorycoin's performance was almost similar to the first implementation.

HeavyCoin is actually surprising that it is not popular. People seem to have become so focused on the asic race, that all these great attempts at keeping gpu and cpu mining alive are just being ignored.

I can see how increasing the required ram can affect botnets , but overall, I guess one needs to fond middle ground.

So from this list, only NoirShares 2.0 is still cpu only, mineable with reference client. I would love to see this put to the test though, Barwizi was accused of some nasty stuff , so it would be great to have some independent analysis of the code.

I'll look into KryptoKash now and report in later.

I think I'll start a thread to keep track of cpu only coins and hopefully by keeping others in the know, they will return the favour

Actually, I looked back to the thread and Kryptohash isn't cpu only, they released a gpu miner.
There is some gpu resistance as they compute a rather long hash, but that's it.

That's rather disappointing, but after todays irc , I finally understood. Basically what I got it that the moment a currency gains enough popularity and has a good price as incentive, then a gpu miner will somehow pop up.

Since I am in no way a hash function expert I guess that's it for now until someone designs or modifies an existing one to fit the bill.


Do you have any clear idea what was done to create neo-scrypt?
I have an idea, I'm gonna try it out later tonight for fun and just to see if it's even possible.

What is the lowest hashrate you have ever seen? on NoirShares, I was getting 3 - 4 hashes per minute only with a i5 desktop

Ah, I remembered something, do you know the original OneCoin ? Seems it uses a unique algorithm as well.

Riecoin?

Never heard of this one, gonna look it up.

Looking for CPU mining on 32-core with 128GB I just looked at Riecoin on an exchange: trading halted until new block has been found (>2 weeks now!). Seems that it's cpu-only alright, which is strange for RIE wants to find primes I believe :)

DO keep us updated please :)

http://cpucoinlist.com/

Devvie
twitter.com/devnullius

Having trouble syncing, 2 weeks since the last block...too long, I guess that's the problem with one direction difficulty adjustment.

I'm having fun playing with other cpu algos on my private net. I'll be sure to update

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=859820.0;all

Devvie

Nice!! Thanks, I'll try it out.

Ok, so anyone heard of merged mining on any of these CPU only coins ?

Another one is woodcoin.
Currently 100% mined with CPU.  Algo is double skein. 

in btc world - dead.

CPU mining is long dead because of the botnets being used. but still i do hope that some could develop a cpu only coin which is resistant to botnets.

Momentum PoW is somewhat botnet resistant. Each thread uses 750Mb memory. So computers infected with malware will be unusably slow when mining this algo. It does nothing to prevent AWS instances. But thats fine in my book since someone is paying for those instead of using some poor slobs cpu cycles without his knowledge.

The coins that use this algo are Protoshare, Noirshares, umm... help me out here, I think there are one or two more.

This doesn't make sense.  A proof of work consensus network IS a botnet.  Nobody is out there calculating hashes with wetware. 

Byte cent is cpu only and is resistant to botnets and supercomputers. Primes per second / hash rate is limited to that of a high end i7 cpu and you cannot mine multiple instances to one wallet. Wallet must hold x byte cents to mine without entering a capcha code. Genius.

memorycoin

Thus far I've found 3 implementations each unique for momentum PoW.

I am working with the original trying to see if merged mining is possible. That would be a treat.

Barwizi recently released a NoirShares update that eliminates gpu mining for now, I wonder how long that will last.

Not genius, actually opposite

Here are some simple PoW rules

1) inexpensive to verify vs generate
2) difficulty adjustable in both directions

Primes only get bigger.

Dedicated cpu miners use Aws instances which they pay for,  as a result, we have to maintain that PoW remain a fire and forget solution. A lot of people confuse cpu mining with home/desktop mining., there is NO known effective method of PoW that cannot be replicated on a larger computer.

As for the claim of not being able to mine multiple instances to one wallet, LOL , what a load of dung (not u, the developer). The only thing that matters is the block chain, seeing as it does not recognize or record how many instances I am running, I can just modify the source code to allow it without in anyway creating a fork. How one mines is not something that can be controlled.

It is not everyone that owns a high end I7, as a result, byte cent is a community failure as it alienates the majority cpu owners. I'd say most play with dual core and quad cores, the most popular being the moderate I5.

Perhaps I am wrong, but mining should not require any input other than your hardware. The stipulation of minimum balances and captcha codes are barriers to entry and have the effect of driving away potential users.

I think that momentum is a successful attempt because

1) it's target exclusions are the small business computers which  make up the majority of botnets.
2 while GPU mining is available, it's scale vs cpu mining is similar to just having a next generation processor, and if the launch is fair,  even that advantage is lowered by scale.
3) momentum can easily be modified to suit any conditions as evidenced by the existing 3 unique variants

Today I focus on cryptonote based coins, just to get a feel of what is going on in there.

it's not true
and problems in one exchange (secret Comkort  ;))
http://ric.nonce-pool.com/index.php?page=statistics&action=pool

That's hugely prone to massive GPU mining, Skeincoin has a gpu miner.

Skeincoin uses a SHA256 hash chained with Skein and Woodcoin doesn't.  The jury is still out on how much an improvement GPUs will give with pure skein.  Skein was designed to be fast on CPU.  So far there is no evidence of GPU or ASIC mining of woodcoin.      

I'll study it later today.

To anyone interested, l'll be running a trial of momentum merged mining sometime this week.

Hi All,
What of them is the most profitable now?


Best regards,

coin with good POS
surprise ?  :D
for example: TEK, HBN ...

CPU mining dead?? hahaha.. reallY??  CEX.IO merged mining on a 2 x Xeon and Phenom on separates runs are low to fair results on ltc.ghash.io:3333 and having 6 local computers on a stratum proxy at a giving time did show an increase on earnings to now able to buy 1 ghs a week :) for over a month and half.. i need more clients on my local network.. and i need room (space) :(..   just started to earn euros...   .10 so far in a couple days..  cpu mining dead???  its fun so far!!   

not quite getting what you are trying to say. Are you saying you have a viable CPU mining option?

viable CPU mining ... good question. under merged mining with ghs as the earning then yes..   for how long??... i can say this..  my cpus have a primary purpose (business) and mining is at only during idle.. hopefully all at the same time.. and can be rewarding.. 

CPU only mining means the network is at the mercy of botnets. The investors buying that coins awould be supposrting the botnet owners.

CPU mining is a handicap for any coin, thats why they are mostly abandoned now.

What makes it 'not dominated by botnets'? Is it so worthless that even the dont bother?

Why cant you answer what makes it botnet resistant?

Any CPU coin will eventually be botnet dominated. I am not interested nor heard of the coin you mention. Cheers for the effort though, just wanted a line from you to know what they were claiming.

Bytecent i already spoke out against it's so called restrictions SEE ABOVE.

To keep things on track , let me recap

1) Anything that your desktop can do , any other cpu can do
2) Using memory limitations has to be within realistic limits ~ 1-2 GB per thread (meaning a quad core will push 8 GB) 16 GB with hyper-threading
3)using gimmicks like captcha or codes to mine is undesirable since mining is a "fire and forget" system
4) Limitations that do not affect block generation/blockchain are USELESS as they can be coded/commented out.
5) use of other restrictions ie minimum balance eg etc creates barriers to entry, forces people to buy ICO and is downright dishonest.

 

I actually prefer cpu/gpu coins. More users can mine it, and less prone to botnets. Many coins like this around - CryptoNote, Scrypt-Chacha,...
I like YAC  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206577.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206577.0) and it can actually become CPU coin soon (as N grows gpus become less efficient).

i loved YAC, was among the first to mine it. The dev did a quick runner though. I have a alternate algorithm i am pursuing, have you tried the original OneCoin? its a variation of scrypt-jane

Actually, all the CPU coins that can even mildly be called a success all meet most or all the above criteria. Intelligent discussion please, not trolling or promoting. We have no interest in your coins of choice, we are more interested in technical specs and GPU/CPU ratios

Heard that Bytecent is just a SCAM,
Any profitable alternative? Lookin for this from a long of time...

CPU mining was nice before everything got all crazy, it would be nice to have a coin stick to CPU mining and be well distributed

So what do You think should I make with free resources? I don't want to waste it.

Asking this kind of question usually doesn't get you any good answers.
Why that?
Everybody would like to get a small slice of the CPU mining, because everybody has CPU that stay, most of the time, unused.
But if I would shout that coin X is better for CPU mining, in a couple of days diff gets crazy, price goes down and it's all over.
You have to do some homework by yourself. Maybe you get lucky. Maybe not.


Sorry if you find this answer "evil". I hope I was actually helpful.
CPU mining has hard times now. Monero used to be for quite some time the best choice for CPU. Afaik those times are gone too.
Good luck!

I get what you are saying. Thats why in the start of the topic we talked about people "in the know". Hopefully this thread will become the one people use to point people to CPU mineable coins.

I am trying to work on merged mining for a cpu-gpu algo.

So far on the Cards is HEFTY---HeavyCoin and Momentum--ProtoShares

he he
only cpu mining:
http://magi.nonce-pool.com/index.php?page=statistics&action=pool
Current Active Workers    628 !!!!

top
7718.83  KH/s  ->   228.485 XMG/Day

amd fx 8350 -> 30 ,,,33  KH/s

7718/ 33 = 234 amd fx 8350

 1 amd fx 8350 = 120 Watt
234 amd fx 8350 = 120 * 234 = 28080 Watt

(24 *  28080)/1000 = 674 kW/h

674 * 0.04 = 26.96 $ - > 27 $

228.485 XMG * 0.0001 = 0.022848 btc -> ~ 8.2 $

and so ...
costs at least 27 $  to get the most out in 8.2 $

such business  :-\

CPU only mining dead?  :D

CPU mining is not good for any coin as it can be taken over by botnets. The coin has to quickly evolve to at least support GPU to survive.

and mining with gpu's is better how? Ever heard of a GPU farm?

GPU farm VS BOTNET VS ASIC

it is like comparing a tractor, a bus and lambo

They are all vehicles but each tailored to complete a task. an ILLEGAL BOTNET is something to discuss, but not any Tom Dick and Harry that has access/owns server farms or thousands of desktop computers.

Check out Magi, we appreciate your CPU ressources!

Find more here
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=735170.0
and here
http://cryptomining-blog.com/4017-coin-magi-xmg-cpu-only-alternative-crypto-currency/

Exactly. Each company has certain problems to deal with. Each coin has certain problems to deal with. You'll never find anything that doesn't have to.
The question is, does the developer try to find solutions against those problems.

100% agreed. Still, I mine something else and gives me about 2x of the income monero would give me.
Just.. yeah... income is decreasing... the usual story: diff goes high, price goes low...

I have a lot of HeavyCoin that I mined back in the days of launch. I think it is basically worthless now though.
Also, I tried mining RieCoin with i7-4770k to no avail

hack_ can you post your performance figures for momentum, or maybe link them to me?

PM

I built Coinshield with a CPU Mining Channel looking for Dense Prime Clusters, and a GPU Mining Channel using SK-1024 hashing algorithm [Skein-1024, Keccak-1600].

Each channel operates independent of one another, each being awarded 50% of the time released supply and utilizing their own difficulty re-targeting.

Thank You,
Viz.

This is what i'm talking about!!!

let me take a look

In a GPU farm or an ASIC operation, they pay for the hardware and electricity from their own pocket. A botnet operator does no such think and can abuse the coin as much as possible for free.

how exactly is he "abusing" the coin?

there is "use" and "abuse", please clearly define what you are saying. And of course lets not forget your reasoning that access to a botnet//server farm//as-many-computers-as-i-can == ILLEGAL BOTNET.

This is not an ethics discussion, it's mostly for those with a passion for CPU mining, GPU discussion is allowed since they are treated the same nowadays.

Botnet operator - spreads his malware and gets coins for free. Dumps them for whatever the price is. Regular miners compete with someone with free electricity and hardware.

GPU/ASIC mining - spends money for hardware and electricity. Miners compete with one another by investing, and they sell at good prices. They also stop mining at low prices reducing difficulty.

momentum has the issue of closed source miners, if you can pass that hurdle, you are home free.

@ hack_ noirshares 2.0 is no longer cpu only, someone figured out gpu mining and has been doing it quietly.

yeah, thats actually a big hurdle since none of them share their source code.

Bitcredits looing good-

a promising cpu mined coin : Vanillacoin . net  ;)

any innovations?

There is a new class of mining assets, less than 2 weeks old.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=929548.0

Coinshield has a CPU Mining Channel searching for Large Prime Clusters [~308 Digits]  ;)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=657601.0

1 of the 11 Innovations I built for CSD,
Viz.

Don't forget the two Cryptonote coins, both with market caps over 1M$

Bytecoin http://bytecoin.org/ (http://bytecoin.org/)

Monero http://www.monero.cc/ (http://www.monero.cc/)

Monero has an especially high hash rate. Both are ideally suited to CPU mining although GPU is possible on Radeon and Nvidia. Neither seem to be dominated by bot-farmers. I mainly see AWS jumping in and out - fair enough in my view.  :D

There are still coins easier to mine. I wish I could mine XMR with CPU and worth it, but I cannot. Still, sometimes I buy it, maybe it will have better days.

word in the pipes is about merged mining for BCR, that is something i would like to see happen, can it even be merged?

How do you see AWS?  No bot farmers, does that mean people can do cryptonote hashing by hand? 

if you talking about mining bitcoin with cpu then yes its dead but still you can mine some cpu mine able coins with your cpu like quark but there are many just search for cpu coins and you will find many of them