Bitcoin Forum

I converted a June delivery TM iv to a 12 month mining contract ...

The last two weeks payouts failed to arrive.

This email was sent to me today ...
Hello Michael,

Thank you for contacting CoinTerra.

Our legal department has provided the following:

    “The company has defaulted on its secured notes. The Note Holders have senior, secured and, we believe, perfected liens on all of CoinTerra's assets, including servers. We have proposed a plan to the Note Holders. However, at this point we do not know how they are going to react to our proposal. The Note Holders are evaluating their options. Until this is resolved, CoinTerra will be unable to make further payments.”

What this means is that we cannot issue any payments to customers at this time. Rest assured we will let you know if this situation changes or if there are any relevant new developments but, for now, we have no further information.

Best regards,

Laura
CoinTerra Support Team

The executioners axe is raised and the head is about to come off ... If you were expecting any hardware from them, it's not looking likely you'll get it now.

What a surprise...  ::)

I'm not unhappy they are gone. Any company that treats its customers as badly as they have done deserve to fail !

What I am pissed off about is I wont recover the money I put in there back in March 2014 ($6817)

Don't be shy. Share the story.

I'm not shy about it believe you me ... I have posted the full story on here previously, so it's all past history now.
People that have bumped heads with Cointerra will know exactly what I'm talking about. Other than that, it's all best forgotten and left in the past as another unsavory chapter in the chequered history of Bitcoin mining endeavors.

Aerobatic where are you?  I thought you were hired to do PR / CS on the forums for CT and you had LOTS of money involved with them among other ASIC companies.

Where has the best company gone?

https://coinfire.cf/2015/01/06/cointerra-defaults/

Can someone post known Cointerra btc addresses?

I wish Cointerra will help their customers when they liquidate the company.

This is the last payout I received from them:
20 Dec 2014 10:43 NZST
http://blockexplorer.com/t/77rvKEt8rX

13 Dec 2014 12:32 NZST
http://blockexplorer.com/t/8C8pmPnqFL

im still here.  i wasnt and have never been hired by cointerra.  i was an angel investor (and advisor).  i live in the UK.

i lose if they die - i invested cash along with the other angel investors.  it was a big deal for me.  clearly, i hope they survive.

ive not heard anything first hand.  what ive read here is all that i know, and its hard to know whats really going on from what little info ive seen.

i was not a part of the more recent financing (secured debt), but obviously, senior debt-holders are a priority over 'regular' investors like me, and the other shareholders.  its up to the debt-holders to decide what the company can do now, and whether it can continue to trade or be restructured in some way.

if a company gets into a financial difficulty, i believe the order of priority for who gets paid back are:   senior debt holders, debtors, employees, customers, and finally investors... 

with the price of bitcoin where it is, the market for bitcoin mining is almost non existent and its unprofitable to mine when your costs are in dollars.   if cointerra dies it wont be the first, nor the last mining company to do so.  hope it doesnt die, cos it cost me (and others) a lot!

As much as the banter annoyed me in the past you never hide involvement and the truth behind it so can't ever say you aren't a man of your word.  For the sake of you and the other angel investors I do hope the best.  Market sucks right now even more so than in May/June when I got out.  Hopefully the lawyers can work out something.

Considering the latest news and your post is it safe to assume that CT will not tape out their 16nm chip anytime soon?

My bet is that the bean counters will put the kibosh on the check they would need to send to the Fab even if they did try to tape out. The Fab will want cash up from them I expect. Wasn't it HashFast that got a bunch a chips back, just as they declared bankruptcy?

Got a bunch of chips back from who? From the Fab? I don't understand your HF statement.

Give it a month or two and I'm picking there will be massive fire sale and you'll be able to pick up kit for cents ... Mind you who'd want it ?

If there was any real work behind the 16nm chip they can sell the design to someone.  That's a big if though.
They would have had to at least pretend like they were moving ahead with the latest designs to appear relevant at all.

Geez, the fallout is real.   Consolidation is the next step. 

after bitstamp and now this... btc businesses ending up as a scam or fail...

I believe customers and debtors get lumped together (at least in the UK anyway), and employees have a pretty good chance of getting paid due to government schemes (at least in the UK).

Its an unproven design at this stage though, so most companies would rather use their own work / info / preference in design when they're risking $1-5M. Even if it looks better.

hi Dogie,  Cointerra is a US company.  I'm an investor, based in the uk.  uk rules wouldn't apply.

-- Jez

Coindesk reporter Joon Ian Wong has written an article ... read it here ... http://www.coindesk.com/cointerra-silent-bitcoin-mining-payout-freeze/

Everything has value to someone.

Do you have a lot of insight into the design or where they were with it, or is it just speculation on your part?

Take a wild guess LOL!

I doubt he has any insight; pulling shit out of his ass as usual.

investment repayment order:  employees (up to $12,475), secured credit holders, taxes, court-fees, customers (layway /$2,775* per customer ), creditors, and finally, investors.  And C7 has a 5 million dollar credit claim against Cointerra with at least $300,000+ in immediate damages., not long term contractual obligations.

just to clarify repayment process, you would be considered an investor.  They are not often lumped together with creditors as they are normally your bank companies, and depends what type of paperwork you had as an investor.

You appear to have some quite specific knowledge of the companies current debt position ... Are you associated ?

Suprise Suprise...

Mining companies that were created when BTC was ~$1000 are unable to make ends meet in cutthroat mining land when BTC hits a couple/three hundred.

The only reason mining ASICs were ever such a lucrative business was due to the price speculation/increase which made even bad mining investments seem like winners for the uninitiated.

Good riddance!

lol no, just been in business for myself many years and read the brief.   I've owned, run and operated many companies, not all of them made it, thus, I know the drill on the court side.  Decided to stop focusing on small clients mid last year when I realized that only large scale mining operations and those that build there own hardware will be profitable in the long run. 

I suppose one thing I neglected to mention is that is the order of priority for a chapter 7, often times if we're talking a chapter 11 its a lot more complicated, but typically follows the same guidelines. Never trusted Cointerra and was fortunately able to steer my investors away from them and to profitable mining hardware...

Personally I think what cointerra did was shady as crap to the C7...  The knew they weren't going to pay, and let the DC provide them power for 2 months for free and collect profits.

there's two sides to every story.  I'm sure we will hear more about this.

I'm sorry I don't speak abbreviation ... What is the C7 and who are the DC ?

C7 is the name of the data center (DC). They're an expensive traditional server hosting facility. An absolute horrible choice to host miners there.

Right, it was a criminal conspiracy.  Cointerra's magical psychic genie told them 2 months ago BTC was heading down, and not back up to $1200.

Do you gamble on horses, and then declare the racetrack "shady as crap" only when you lose?

Do you buy stocks, and then declare your broker "shady as crap" only when your investments fare poorly?

You dumbfucks who suddenly see preplanned malfeasance only things go wrong need to understand that risk is part of life, and especially part of high-tech bleeding edge start-ups.

"You dumbfucks...."
Really?  Though I have not run across you before Icebreaker, I feel very comfortable adding you immediately to my ignore list.

OK, so not only are you the kind of dumbfuck who thinks Cointerra can predict the price of BTC and bases evil conspiracies on that knowledge, but are also the kind of dumbfuck who needs to announce who he adds to his ignore list.

You think Cointerra knew what the price of BTC was going to do two months in advance...who cares who such a paranoid dumbfuck ignores?

He is HashFast's biggest cheerleader. Even to this day he defends them nonstop. Putting him on ignore is a very wise choice.

There is a high mountain to climb for Cointerra, C7's contract is fairly straightforward and they have been doing this for quite some time.. They did a great job on the buildout for Cointerra and delivered everything, apparently they even went above and beyond per the suit.. Knowing them I wouldn't doubt it as they have a great team at C7..

No icebreaker, what is shady is Cointerra was no longer profitable months ago with there cloud mining operation, and instead of paying their accounts, or saying "hey we can't cover this bill" they stayed silent.  In the meantime, they continued to profit from the operation (withholding payment to C7), they probably didn't pay themselves anything different, but chose to pay certain creditors, while not paying the data center.  In the mean time, C7 had a huge bill for JUST the electricity alone, that they paid piling up (a line of credit - that the DC didn't offer) - after 60 days of paying Cointerra's power bill, they finally shut them down.

Cointerra never evolved there equipment to a more profitable design, and because of this, were never able to compete with other miners operating at .65j/gh.  Operating at nearly 1.3+j/gh, and twice the hosting costs, means over 1/4th as profitable, in an operation that was too expensive in the first place.  $101-$105 per KW, is too much for a large scale operation with needed support. Its why I never liked Cointerra, gear they never even made an effective 28nm let alone 20nm chipset, they continued to produce units designed in December of 2014 with an older chipset.

Had they replaced old equipment with new gear, they could have been profitable (twice the hash-rate) for the same space / price, and liquidated there equipment at a reasonable cost, not the ridiculous costs they wanted for those units on there website.  They knew they were screwed (unless bitcoin price doubled) yet they continued to gamble with someones else money (C7 the datacenter) - making them pay the bill.

This is why customers we take on pay a 1 months security deposit, then pay month to month.  The one month is so if they don't pay there bill, and we shut them down for being 2 weeks late, we're not out any money other than having space available.

tl;dr: People have access to lower cost power and are willing to run on thinner margins. It's not fair.

"Cointerra was no longer profitable...they continued to profit"

Umm, could you make up your mind about whether or not CT was profitable?  And whether or not you are ignoring me...   ;D

If the price of BTC had gone back up, CT would have been able to pay C7, etc.  But that was a risk both businesses were willing to take.  Adults understand risk doesn't always produce reward, and don't indulge in personalizing the outcome by retroactively assigning criminal motivations.

If you actually pay attention to the context instead of isolating seemingly contradictory phrases, he's saying "Cointerra was no longer profitable [if they were paying their bills] ...they continued to profit [by paying themselves instead of covering owed debt]". Any business model with a revenue stream can be "profitable" if you don't pay the associated debts.

They inquired with us about a large scale hosting project in early November.  I mentioned a downpayment and the email chain ended.

Do you know if that was a new hosting project using new hardware or a relocation of existing servers ?

Terraminer IVs from my understanding.  Whether they were new, old or what, I have no idea.

To be fair, it started out as an inquiry on whether or not we could handle 100-150 units.  Then it turned into a conversation about building a new datacenter that could house up to 5mW worth of their hardware.

That speaks volumes. I believe they were specifically  looking for a hosting provider that didn't require a deposit. That way they could not pay their bills for a period of time at the end and effectively mine with free electricity for a while  (like 60 days). They wouldn't care if the hardware was forfeit, 60 days free mining is worth more than those old Terraminer IV units will fetch second-hand (plus the cost and hassle of selling them, shipping them out, dealing with returns, customer support etc).

Cointerra also raised money in a pre-order for a 16nm product... who knows whether they ever actually intended to manufacture it or not? The cynics amongst us suspect it was just another cash-grab before the company went under.

This is bullshit! Come on people. Wake the fuck up. 80% or more of people involved in btc are scum! At least realise that will you! Cointerra, knc, bfl, amt, black arrow to name a few!  All same tricks and cons! Been sayingg this for years but no one listens!

Suppose he supports bfl as well hey! Jump off a cliff and die youth!

If only I had listened to you all these years.
Another for my ignore button. Two in one week. That's a pr.

Hard to say years' worth of anything with a two-month-old account.

Optimistically, CoinTerra was hoping for a miracle that would allow them to pay the overdue bills and keep moving forward with 16nm dev and other projects. Pessimistically, they cashed out every revenue stream they could find and started booking flights to non-extradition countries with suitcases full of money. Realistically, probably somewhere in between. I'd say "let the courts figure it out" but didn't the courts just recently rule BFL offically "not a scam" and put them back in business?

So your saying I was wrong! Add me on ignored, your loss!

Speculation based on the timelines published. It would have still been a simulation at this point.

Late or not, a "scam" doesn't create a 28nm ASIC and (eventually) ship the product ordered.

Cointerra acted in good faith and is not responsible, legally or ethically, for adverse business conditions such as a crashing BTC price.  You don't get to retroactively assign malfeasance based solely on ex post facto factors the business has no control over.  That's not how it works.

If you can't tell the difference between a "scam" and an unsuccessful firm/investment, you are either very young and inexperienced or incredibly stupid.

Aerobatic will tell you the same thing, albeit in more polite/less direct (AKA patronizing) words, such as

https://www.wordnik.com/words/caveat%20emptor

Oh, look, icebreaker again. Let me guess, he's coming to the defense of CT. Icebreaker, defender of all the failed miners. Who's next on your list? Going to go defend BlackArrow next?

Oh good, it's a member of my fan club!   :D

Since I've never defended BlackArrow (or Bitmine, or BFL), what are we to make of your claim that I am a "defender of all the failed miners?"

How convenient for you to put words in my mouth, and ignore my actual statements.

We all know why you prefer to personalize the discussion rather than debate the relevant interplay of risk, reward, and business conditions in the BTC ASIC sector.

The puerile attempts to heap undeserved blame and scorn on honest ASIC vendors, in order to absolve customers of responsibility for making risky investments, are getting old.

Your right,fuckin customers that expect ANYTHING are to blame,dirty greedy customers!!!!!!!!

 ;D :D ;D :D

Yes, that's LITERALLY EXACTLY what I said!
 ;D :D ;) :) :P

Are you a mason? Kiddy fiddler? Or just that dumb you would defend the royal families of the world as well as the Vatican? Lol

Seriously dude. There's 2 companies to trust in this industry and they are both chineese. Says all you need to now about the west! Greed! Just pure greed which makes these scammers. They had a plan from the start. Period. Anyone who as worked in large companies are polluted. I'm just watching a company fall to pieces in 6 months because of a new gm that game from amazon. Less than 6 months and he's killed it infact. Can't say who but they deal with mobiles in the UK and do work for all the companies over here. Destroyed from the inside.

Theirs a bigger picture that you refuse to see. I suppose you think Ross albricht should rot in jail and you miss the point that this is about your right to free speech/internet freedom etc etc.

So many blind people who don't want to get their heads out of the sand and see reality. Yes, its fucking ugly but at least its real! Knowing is the first step!

RIP scum bags

Masons?  Royals?  Chem trails?!?  The Bermuda Triangle?!?!   :o

  ::) :D ::)

Could you possibly be more unhinged?  I hope so, because that would be even more entertaining.

You're totally wrong about me.  Long before I supported Ross Ulbricht, I supported Marc Emery.  And I have direct shares of AM from the original offering.

CT did nothing wrong.  Sorry you can't accept that, and have to go full paranoid when confronted by the facts.

I just don't accept the public line that's been fed since... Well, forever it seems but goes at least back to the late 1800's for the current bullshkt.

As for ct, there product was on life support when it left the door! Even with delta fans! They fucked up. Ours (4 left of 6, 2 are totally dead!) Are in mineral oil instead of using air cooling now just so they stay alive! There fucking shocking! Even bfl wasn't that bad! Well, the monarchs seem shocking but who the hell brought off bfl after late 2012 deserve what they got for not doing their own research! Hell, even the knc titans and neptune cubes are a pain to keep running.

Fact is, they are selling faulty hardware that is not home friendly. But that was never their aim was it! Farms on the other hand!

I agree with you on that, they were never designed to be used in a home environment. I believe that CT only sold product to us poor suckers to cover the development costs and to finance the cost of building their own server farms ...

Did you actually expect CT to cover the development costs, take all the risk, and only pass the profits on to you?

I believe that you are feeling sorry for yourself and making stuff up to justify wallowing in self-pity.

Because so few pre-orders were sold to consumers, CT's investors bore most of the R&D costs and server farms.

If the price of BTC had stayed at $1000 or shot to the moon, you would be singing their praises for the magic money printing machine they sold you.

These after-the-fact retroactive scam accusations against honest companies are getting really fucking old, and make those making them look like spoiled bratty sore losers with an awful case of entitlement syndrome.

You know what else gets old? Childish insults and mudslinging (and before you retort, yes, I know the most recent reply contained neither but that seems to be a rarity). Say what you will about the good intentions of a business hoping for a bright future and high coin prices, anyone that skips out on a $50K hosting bill (among other things) while withholding mining revenues from paid customers is doing something very wrong. I'm sure their investors are saying the same thing.

Additionally, coin prices haven't been at $1000 in 13 months. I'm sure they weren't relying on prices being that high any time in the last year, what with there being an almost monotonic decrease in coin prices during that entire duration. It may be an outright scam, or it may be the result of poor planning, but what most people should be able to agree on is their financial behavior over the last few months is unacceptable and looks to be deliberately self-serving.

The problem is that you don't know what you're talking about.

^That^ statement isn't childish mudslinging.  It's the fact that secured creditors have priority over other creditors, including your oddly precious hosting provider.

"Scam" or "poor planning" aren't the only parsimonious explanations.  Bad luck/business conditions is another simple and common reason high-tech start-ups fail.  Ask any bankruptcy lawyer and they will agree.

The insults are due to those who would be praising Cointerra if their mutual gamble had paid off only deciding to start whining and accusing because they are too immature to demonstrate good sportsmanship and accept a loss.

Hashfast was the first victim of such defamation, and I was the only person who stood up for the truth.  For this treasonous offense against the herd mind's popular opinion, I was pilloried (which I took as a badge of anti-sheeple honor).

Now that BTC is crashing farther, many other honest ASIC/cloudhashing vendors (formerly praised as All Stars, etc) are getting the same unfair treatment from the haters.  It's despicable.  You don't get to conveniently decide the casino is a scam after enjoying the gals/glitz/drinks/entertainment but then losing a long-shot gamble.  If you start loudly denouncing the casino as a scam only because you pressed your luck too far, they will bury you in the desert.  And rightly so.

From what I understand, HashFast dug their own grave when they lied outright to customers about delivery dates - something about promising on-track up until the day they busted their deadline, and didn't mention to anyone that they were actually two or three months behind schedule (at best)? And also retconning customer terms to change refund policies?

For the record, I have never had anything invested in either Hashfast or Cointerra. I just think it's interesting that a business would continue operating for months on someone else's (unwitting, unvolunteered) dime without saying a word about it. Sure, the investors might have prior claim over customers. But you do not extract services from someone at a realtime rate knowing you will not be able to pay for those services. When you have debts from willing participants, you do not incur more debts from unwilling participants to cover them. You meet your contractual obligations, and the instant you know you will not be able to do so, you discuss the situation instead of fleecing. There were definitely things they could have done to avoid looking evil, and it appears they didn't attempt most of them. That's why people are shouting "scam".

Also for the record, you will never ever see me defending either casinos or cloudhashing operations for any reason. And people would probably hate you less if you were more polite instead of obnoxious or inflammatory. Make your point, make it well-formed and logical, and make it without namecalling. Insulting the immature means acting immature yourself, at which point you lose the higher ground.

Here here ... pull your horns in icebreaker and play nicely or I'll just lock the topic and you can jog on.

What are you, my debate coach? ::)  I'll make my points as I see fit, TYVM.  If I make the discussion less dry by peppering it with banter, that is of educational benefit to readers who might not otherwise follow a humorless boring conversation.  If you strenuously object to a little verbal jousting, fuck off and put me on ignore instead of whining pedantically about it.   :-*

Missing a delivery date isn't the same as lying.  Cointerra and many almost all other ASIC vendors have missed anticipated delivery dates.  Designing and building the chips and board is hard, as is writing firmware and drivers, dealing with regulation/logistics/etc.  So it would be foolish to take such dates as gospel deadlines.

Businesses operate on credit all the time.  Credit lubricates the economy and makes the world go around.  You must be new to this universe to not already be aware of such common knowledge.  Cointerra, etc. did not know they would "not be able to pay" for services rendered.  That depended on numerous unforeseeable random factors, like finding more investment and/or customers, the price of Bitcoin, network difficulty, etc.

These shopworn, long-debunked false premises annoy me, because I am fairly certain they are not made in good faith but rather to support the popular defamatory foregone conclusions of dishonesty and criminal motives.

Now that I've explained the source of my hostility and vehemence, let's hope you can understand (if not forgive and henceforth applaud) it.   ;D


You are new here, Mr. Newbie.  This is BTCT.  We thrive on/adore drama, and thus appreciate straightforward, honest rough and tumble.  If you can't stand the heat, GTFO the kitchen.

When sidehack insults our intelligence with specious ignorance, he may expect to experience retaliatory insults.  I am not a punching bag, and always hit back harder than the other guy when I know I'm right.  That's why the 'ZOMG HashFast/Cointerra/100TH/iCEDRILL WAS A SCAM ALL ALONG!!!111!' sheeple absolutely despise me.   :P

Turnabout is fair play.  Go ahead, lock the thread if your constitution is too delicate for anything but patronizing namby-pamby gladhandling.  Frankly, my dear, I don't GAS.   8)

Correct me if I'm wrong, I just remember reading timelines after the fact but Hashfast posted numerous times leading right up to their anticipated ship date that everything was on schedule, when they hadn't actually received chips yet, and didn't have deployable working hardware until two months after the original ship date? I'm fairly certain telling someone you'll deliver a product on X date, and on day X-1 continuing to assure people you'll deliver on X date, when you know for certain that some of the parts you need to complete the task don't even exist yet, constitutes lying. Yes, everyone misses ship dates. Blowing a deadline by a month right now in bitcoin is considered "pretty good". But not letting people know you'll miss the deadline when you know pretty clearly that you will miss the deadline, and insisting on what you know to be impossible, is lying. If my information about their conduct leading up to the blown deadline is wrong (which is possible, memory being fallible) please correct it.

And yes, businesses operate on credit all the time. Mine doesn't, but that's because I'm stubborn about borrowing and we always pay our bills. The thing about credit, though, is it really helps to ask for it up front, instead of expecting to be allowed it by default. When you skip out on the bill for the second month in a row, you probably knew ahead of time that you couldn't pay it. When a bill comes due and you check the bank and you don't have that much money, you talk to the person you owe and work out terms. You don't wait for another month to roll over and continue to accrue debt for services rendered - services you draw a revenue stream from, which goes who knows where - without trying to work it out with the renderer. Back debt and credit are basically the same thing, sure, but the main difference in this case is prior permission. You don't buy a car and skip monthly payments using "credit with the dealer" as an excuse. You don't hire a worker at a contract wage and then not cut him a paycheck come Friday because "credit" with no warning or explanation. Cointerra may not be overt scammers, might be unwitting victims of bad luck and a bad market may be more to blame than poor planning. All that's semantic, internal stuff to figure out. But whatever caused the downturn, somewhere along the line they started looking like overt bastards from an outside perspective. That's the problem. That's what people don't like.

I think you are singularly the most thoroughly offensive person it has been my displeasure to encounter in this forum.

I could get offensive in return and suggest that you get some weird twisted psycho-sexual stimulation off deliberately offending people online ... This is typical behavior from obese reasonably intelligent nerds with zero real world interaction that get off whacking the winky at the greatness of their offensiveness. Typically these types of people live their lives in darkened rooms in front of a multi-screen gamer setups ... oh, and they smell too.

But I wont do that, because that would lower me to your depths and I'd rather not do that thanks very much.
No one is going to deny you the the chance to express your opinions, but why do you need to be so goddam offensive and personally offensive about it too. If you wound the attack back a notch of two you would find people are more likely to take what you have to say seriously instead of lashing out because you've chosen to be directly offensive.
you mention debate ... have you ever debated in a real world properly moderated forum ?

My point is that most ASIC vendors have been late and tardiness is no indication of malfeasance, so please don't derail this thread with Yet Another^TM voyage into ancient HF history.

If you can get by without credit, good for you.  But you are not making bleeding-edge BTC mining ASICS.  So don't pat yourself on the back too hard.  And equating a corporation (which provides hosting or whatever) to an individual "worker at contract wage" is not a metaphor I find apt, much less a persuasive basis for your conclusion.  

My point was that CT, etc. did not "know" ahead of time that they wouldn't be able to find more investment/customers or benefit from higher BTC prices/lower difficulty.  They were supposed to give it everything they could and go for broke.  That was their job and their investors could sue them if they did anything less than max out their credit line in the course of their best efforts to achive a turnaround.  Their vendors can write off the losses.  That happens all the time and I'm beyond tired of people making it into a moral/ethical issue.  In business you win some and lose some.  It's not The Devil vs. Jesus FFS.  Please leave the Puritan 'neither a lender nor borrower be' BS in Sunday School.  Without credit and risk, economic/technological development goes Dark Ages (again).

CT, etc.'s job was to make best efforts to create a viable/profitable firm, not appease prejudiced outsiders (many of who are irredeemable trolls or shills for the competition).

Whether or not CT, etc. scammed anyone is a matter for the legal system (where the presumption is of innocence), not the defamatory court of public opinion, to decide.

Caveat emptor is a thing.  Due diligence is an obligation.  When an investment goes sour, it's asinine to cast about for scapegoats to absolve oneself of these responsibilities.  That the problem with the 'ZOMG I JUST SUDDENLY REALIZED HASHFAST/ICEDRILL/100TH/COINTERRA/KNC WAS A SCAM ALL ALONG' crowd.  That why those people don't like it when I remind them we voluntarily gave them our BTC.

As a brief follow-up before turning in for the night -

I mentioned Hashfast because you first mentioned Hashfast, as someone else you vehemently defended when their crap hit the fan as well. As I have said, if I have the facts about them wrong please correct me, else it doesn't lend much to your credibility.

Additionally, "neither a borrower nor a lender be" was Shakespeare, not Jesus. Specifically, Polonius' long-winded ("as brevity is the soul of wit, I will be brief") advice to his son in "Hamlet", I believe the first act. Just a matter of correctness, not to detract from the point itself. My complaint is not about owing the investors or creditors, but the people they were extracting services from or rendering services to in the course of running the business. It's inarguably irresponsible (or immature) to not pay your bills and still expect things to keep running smoothly. And when you do so right up until the moment the dam breaks, it looks even worse from the outside.

Regarding worker vs corporation metaphor, the metaphor holds so long as the understanding is this: you contract a service and then fail to pay for it, repeatedly, while still drawing benefits from the rendering of said service. That's not credit, that's cheating. Could the host have cut them off sooner? Yes. Should they have? Probably. But by not addressing the issue of being flat broke with anyone, while continuing to pull in mining revenue as they build up additional debt both to the hosting company and with hosted-mining customers, until well after the "point of no return" toward bankruptcy, they lose all credibility they might still have had with customers. Basically, it looks a lot like they decided to try their luck mining for free and pocketing some of the coin for a while, and until they can prove that's not what happened (or at the very least, that it wasn't premeditated), people will continue to hate them. Courts assume innocence until proven guilty, but spurned customers and unpaid service providers usually don't, especially when no reasonable explanation is given.
So basically, if you're about to rip someone off because it's the only choice you have left, at least be transparent about it.

I think the major screwup that Cointerra did was their decision to mine for themselves, rather than to sell hardware and allow their customers to take on the mining risk. The proof of this can be seen by their absurdly high miner prices over the summer. Had they not been so greedy and gone all long shot BTC to da moon, sold their hardware instead of build now completely unprofitable farms, they might have enough left over for round two. Hindsight is 20/20, but after having a few offers rejected by Cointerra over the summer for a few miner machines- fair offers IMO but apparently not good enough or bulky enough for them to bother. If anyone took the long shot bet here is by some higher ups at Cointerra that steer the ship to get the profit.

BTW I have one terraminer IV that still runs great and has run great sense delivery of April 2, 2014. April order, so you could say I even got mine on time. I'm sure my one terraminer paid for 3 at their farm, and they are worse off because of that alone. Greed killed this goose, it wasn't their customers.

Also, Icebreaker, I have no problem agreeing with you that most people are stupid, and a lot of people make bad decisions, and most of them would rather spend all day ascribing blame than work to fix it and move forward. In America at least, profiting maximally from minimal effort and taking to the woodshed any available scapegoat when things don't work perfectly for you is almost mandatory, and I hate that about our culture. I just wish people in the bitcoin industry would stop making it so easy to do.

Lying about delivery dates when you know otherwise is! All companies have done that (bar sponddodles and bitmain I think). So yes, they are liars!

The fact is that they were always going screw average joe over if the coin stayed at the highs of 600-1000 and this is true with all these cowboy asic makers.

People are building centralised systems on top of the most powerful decentralised system we've ever had and wonder why its failing!

Just ignorance and greed that rules this word powered by fear! Period. No love left!

LOL, stay crazy bro.  It's funny!   :)

So you think a man in a cave 4000 miles away on a dialisis machine did 9/11 do you (who was friends with the bush family)? So you think 1 man fired a rifle 3 times in less than 10 seconds with a rifle that's proven to be impossible? So you think Hitler rebuilt Germany all on his own with no help from no one (look up Hitler project? So you think the titanic sank and the olyimpica sailed on for another 24 years unhindered and it wasn't an insurance job by no other than JP Morgan? Fact is, if there's a film about it, its a cover up for reprogramming you!

Shit dude, you lost your critical thinking! Anyone who uses tinfoil hat/ conspiracy theorist loses all credibility as they prefer to label and put people in boxes rather than have a critical thinking conversation. The joke is, conspiracy theory is the conspiracy! Anyone who as a brain that's used for its intended purpose, critical thinking, instead of filling it with bullshit knows this!

If you got an attention span longer than a goldfish (yes, I know they have a memory longer than 2 seconds but you get the point!), watch this..... Then think hard about it. Then go and look at multiple sources, look up well documented writings if reading is your preferred method and use your brain! Look around you and analyse what you see and then come back and have a discussion with me if you really want some credibility from people who are not zombies/powered by greed etc etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1Qt6a-vaNM

Remember, even in a minority of 1, the truth is still the truth! I never let schooling get in the way of my education! Yourself?

And if you want to know how easy it is to control people, just watch this! I use these tactics to wake people up in real life (its nye impossible to do this online without having human contact as text does not relay the intended projection). Were all human resources! Used and abused by unempathetic pathological peodo's no less. Keeping your head in the sand makes you apart of the problem!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pCigAw2-0g

And if you can't spend the time to look at what I'm trying to show you, keep me in that imaginary box that's been programmed into you and keep being a failure of a decent human being. No skin off my nose! Can't save everyone, that's just how it is unfortunitly. Your obviously powered by greed and miss the point of the Bitcoin block chain! Its not even a currency lol. Take some lessons from amir taki or something!

Can't say I don't try! Joke is, all this is so fucking obvious!

Cointerra's website has been taken down and replaced with a notice that say's they've applied for chapter 7 bankruptcy protection ... I don't live in CONUS so have no idea what that means, perhaps some kind hearted CONUSian will explain it for the benefit of us aliens.

http://cointerra.com/ if you want to go see for yourself

i never use this site
bu it's sad for bitcoin comunity
every died invest area is bad news for us..

Today I received a notice from the United States Bankruptcy Court advising me of a meeting of creditors scheduled for ...

February 27
10:00 am
Austin Room 118
Homer Thornberry Building
903 San Jacinto
Austin
Texas 78701

I cannot attend as I live in New Zealand. If someone is planning on going would they be kind enough to post a review of the proceedings

contact the ones who sent you the letter. I think it's better to talk with them by phone. it's faster than email.

The notice clearly states that creditors with a foreign address should consult a lawyer familiar with US bankruptcy law. It also says that court staff cannot provide any legal advice.

how much money do they own you?

It's enough that I'm seriously pissed off about it (thousands) but it's less than it would end up costing to pay lawyers here and in the US to try and recover it.
Interesting the notice states there is no property to claim against and not to bother lodging a claim until they advise otherwise and further assets are discovered.

That smells of rats jumping ship with the loot to me ... Where are all the servers that were supposed to be hashing away at C7 ? What about all the product in stock etc.

I emailed C7 and asked if the Cointerra servers were still hashing and got one reply as follows, then nothing more...

Hi Michael,
I'm currently onsite, but unfortunately i don't have the answer to your question but i can forward your question to the employe that will be revealing me. That will be in an hour. 
Thanks, Danny Wisdom
To see full details this ticket, go to https://portal.c7dc.com/ticket.php?ticket=106998. (you can't view the ticket unless you are a C7 customer and have a login)

i cant read with a whole pile of text if no one bothers to summarize in a few bullet points.

so basically they ended up like being a BFL failure.

Oh no, the ROFL train of bFL is still choo choo choking along the tracks. Have you not seen there new offerings? Cloud mining and there new sister company 'bithashminers' lol. Seriously. Unempathetic asswipes like them never stop because they don't suffer from remorse or guilt. Just jump onto the next big con!

At least cointerra did the right thing and just called it a day!