Cointerra is dead

[dogie]

If there was any real work behind the 16nm chip they can sell the design to someone.  That's a big if though.
They would have had to at least pretend like they were moving ahead with the latest designs to appear relevant at all.

Its an unproven design at this stage though, so most companies would rather use their own work / info / preference in design when they're risking $1-5M. Even if it looks better.

[aerobatic]

I believe customers and debtors get lumped together (at least in the UK anyway), and employees have a pretty good chance of getting paid due to government schemes (at least in the UK).

hi Dogie,  Cointerra is a US company.  I'm an investor, based in the uk.  uk rules wouldn't apply.

-- Jez

[MichaelNZ]

Coindesk reporter Joon Ian Wong has written an article ... read it here ... http://www.coindesk.com/cointerra-silent-bitcoin-mining-payout-freeze/

[Swimmer63]

If there was any real work behind the 16nm chip they can sell the design to someone.  That's a big if though.
They would have had to at least pretend like they were moving ahead with the latest designs to appear relevant at all.

Its an unproven design at this stage though, so most companies would rather use their own work / info / preference in design when they're risking $1-5M. Even if it looks better.

Everything has value to someone.

[padrino]

If there was any real work behind the 16nm chip they can sell the design to someone.  That's a big if though.
They would have had to at least pretend like they were moving ahead with the latest designs to appear relevant at all.

Its an unproven design at this stage though, so most companies would rather use their own work / info / preference in design when they're risking $1-5M. Even if it looks better.

Do you have a lot of insight into the design or where they were with it, or is it just speculation on your part?

[Powell]

If there was any real work behind the 16nm chip they can sell the design to someone.  That's a big if though.
They would have had to at least pretend like they were moving ahead with the latest designs to appear relevant at all.

Its an unproven design at this stage though, so most companies would rather use their own work / info / preference in design when they're risking $1-5M. Even if it looks better.

Do you have a lot of insight into the design or where they were with it, or is it just speculation on your part?

Take a wild guess LOL!

[dropt]

If there was any real work behind the 16nm chip they can sell the design to someone.  That's a big if though.
They would have had to at least pretend like they were moving ahead with the latest designs to appear relevant at all.

Its an unproven design at this stage though, so most companies would rather use their own work / info / preference in design when they're risking $1-5M. Even if it looks better.

Do you have a lot of insight into the design or where they were with it, or is it just speculation on your part?

I doubt he has any insight; pulling shit out of his ass as usual.

[graymatter]

Aerobatic where are you?  I thought you were hired to do PR / CS on the forums for CT and you had LOTS of money involved with them among other ASIC companies.

Where has the best company gone?

im still here.  i wasnt and have never been hired by cointerra.  i was an angel investor (and advisor).  i live in the UK.

i lose if they die - i invested cash along with the other angel investors.  it was a big deal for me.  clearly, i hope they survive.

ive not heard anything first hand.  what ive read here is all that i know, and its hard to know whats really going on from what little info ive seen.

i was not a part of the more recent financing (secured debt), but obviously, senior debt-holders are a priority over 'regular' investors like me, and the other shareholders.  its up to the debt-holders to decide what the company can do now, and whether it can continue to trade or be restructured in some way.

if a company gets into a financial difficulty, i believe the order of priority for who gets paid back are:   senior debt holders, debtors, employees, customers, and finally investors...  

with the price of bitcoin where it is, the market for bitcoin mining is almost non existent and its unprofitable to mine when your costs are in dollars.   if cointerra dies it wont be the first, nor the last mining company to do so.  hope it doesnt die, cos it cost me (and others) a lot!

investment repayment order:  employees (up to $12,475), secured credit holders, taxes, court-fees, customers (layway /$2,775* per customer ), creditors, and finally, investors.  And C7 has a 5 million dollar credit claim against Cointerra with at least $300,000+ in immediate damages., not long term contractual obligations.

just to clarify repayment process, you would be considered an investor.  They are not often lumped together with creditors as they are normally your bank companies, and depends what type of paperwork you had as an investor.

[MichaelNZ]

investment repayment order:  employees (up to $12,475), secured credit holders, taxes, court-fees, customers (layway /$2,775* per customer ), creditors, and finally, investors.  And C7 has a 5 million dollar credit claim against Cointerra with at least $300,000+ in immediate damages., not long term contractual obligations.

just to clarify repayment process, you would be considered an investor.  They are not often lumped together with creditors as they are normally your bank companies, and depends what type of paperwork you had as an investor.

You appear to have some quite specific knowledge of the companies current debt position ... Are you associated ?

[jermwerty]

Suprise Suprise...

Mining companies that were created when BTC was ~$1000 are unable to make ends meet in cutthroat mining land when BTC hits a couple/three hundred.

The only reason mining ASICs were ever such a lucrative business was due to the price speculation/increase which made even bad mining investments seem like winners for the uninitiated.

Good riddance!

[graymatter]

investment repayment order:  employees (up to $12,475), secured credit holders, taxes, court-fees, customers (layway /$2,775* per customer ), creditors, and finally, investors.  And C7 has a 5 million dollar credit claim against Cointerra with at least $300,000+ in immediate damages., not long term contractual obligations.

just to clarify repayment process, you would be considered an investor.  They are not often lumped together with creditors as they are normally your bank companies, and depends what type of paperwork you had as an investor.

You appear to have some quite specific knowledge of the companies current debt position ... Are you associated ?

lol no, just been in business for myself many years and read the brief.   I've owned, run and operated many companies, not all of them made it, thus, I know the drill on the court side.  Decided to stop focusing on small clients mid last year when I realized that only large scale mining operations and those that build there own hardware will be profitable in the long run. 

I suppose one thing I neglected to mention is that is the order of priority for a chapter 7, often times if we're talking a chapter 11 its a lot more complicated, but typically follows the same guidelines. Never trusted Cointerra and was fortunately able to steer my investors away from them and to profitable mining hardware...

Personally I think what cointerra did was shady as crap to the C7...  The knew they weren't going to pay, and let the DC provide them power for 2 months for free and collect profits.

[aerobatic]

Personally I think what cointerra did was shady as crap to the C7...  The knew they weren't going to pay, and let the DC provide them power for 2 months for free and collect profits.

there's two sides to every story.  I'm sure we will hear more about this.

[MichaelNZ]

investment repayment order:  employees (up to $12,475), secured credit holders, taxes, court-fees, customers (layway /$2,775* per customer ), creditors, and finally, investors.  And C7 has a 5 million dollar credit claim against Cointerra with at least $300,000+ in immediate damages., not long term contractual obligations.

just to clarify repayment process, you would be considered an investor.  They are not often lumped together with creditors as they are normally your bank companies, and depends what type of paperwork you had as an investor.

You appear to have some quite specific knowledge of the companies current debt position ... Are you associated ?

lol no, just been in business for myself many years and read the brief.   I've owned, run and operated many companies, not all of them made it, thus, I know the drill on the court side.  Decided to stop focusing on small clients mid last year when I realized that only large scale mining operations and those that build there own hardware will be profitable in the long run. 

I suppose one thing I neglected to mention is that is the order of priority for a chapter 7, often times if we're talking a chapter 11 its a lot more complicated, but typically follows the same guidelines. Never trusted Cointerra and was fortunately able to steer my investors away from them and to profitable mining hardware...

Personally I think what cointerra did was shady as crap to the C7...  The knew they weren't going to pay, and let the DC provide them power for 2 months for free and collect profits.

I'm sorry I don't speak abbreviation ... What is the C7 and who are the DC ?

[Syke]

I'm sorry I don't speak abbreviation ... What is the C7 and who are the DC ?

C7 is the name of the data center (DC). They're an expensive traditional server hosting facility. An absolute horrible choice to host miners there.

[iCEBREAKER]

Personally I think what cointerra did was shady as crap to the C7...  The knew they weren't going to pay, and let the DC provide them power for 2 months for free and collect profits.

Right, it was a criminal conspiracy.  Cointerra's magical psychic genie told them 2 months ago BTC was heading down, and not back up to $1200.

Do you gamble on horses, and then declare the racetrack "shady as crap" only when you lose?

Do you buy stocks, and then declare your broker "shady as crap" only when your investments fare poorly?

You dumbfucks who suddenly see preplanned malfeasance only things go wrong need to understand that risk is part of life, and especially part of high-tech bleeding edge start-ups.

[Swimmer63]

Personally I think what cointerra did was shady as crap to the C7...  The knew they weren't going to pay, and let the DC provide them power for 2 months for free and collect profits.

Right, it was a criminal conspiracy.  Cointerra's magical psychic genie told them 2 months ago BTC was heading down, and not back up to $1200.

Do you gamble on horses, and then declare the racetrack "shady as crap" only when you lose?

Do you buy stocks, and then declare your broker "shady as crap" only when your investments fare poorly?

You dumbfucks who suddenly see preplanned malfeasance only things go wrong need to understand that risk is part of life, and especially part of high-tech bleeding edge start-ups.

"You dumbfucks...."
Really?  Though I have not run across you before Icebreaker, I feel very comfortable adding you immediately to my ignore list.

[iCEBREAKER]

Personally I think what cointerra did was shady as crap to the C7...  The knew they weren't going to pay, and let the DC provide them power for 2 months for free and collect profits.

Right, it was a criminal conspiracy.  Cointerra's magical psychic genie told them 2 months ago BTC was heading down, and not back up to $1200.

Do you gamble on horses, and then declare the racetrack "shady as crap" only when you lose?

Do you buy stocks, and then declare your broker "shady as crap" only when your investments fare poorly?

You dumbfucks who suddenly see preplanned malfeasance only things go wrong need to understand that risk is part of life, and especially part of high-tech bleeding edge start-ups.

"You dumbfucks...."
Really?  Though I have not run across you before Icebreaker, I feel very comfortable adding you immediately to my ignore list.

OK, so not only are you the kind of dumbfuck who thinks Cointerra can predict the price of BTC and bases evil conspiracies on that knowledge, but are also the kind of dumbfuck who needs to announce who he adds to his ignore list.

You think Cointerra knew what the price of BTC was going to do two months in advance...who cares who such a paranoid dumbfuck ignores?

[Syke]

"You dumbfucks...."
Really?  Though I have not run across you before Icebreaker, I feel very comfortable adding you immediately to my ignore list.

He is HashFast's biggest cheerleader. Even to this day he defends them nonstop. Putting him on ignore is a very wise choice.

[padrino]

Personally I think what cointerra did was shady as crap to the C7...  The knew they weren't going to pay, and let the DC provide them power for 2 months for free and collect profits.

there's two sides to every story.  I'm sure we will hear more about this.

There is a high mountain to climb for Cointerra, C7's contract is fairly straightforward and they have been doing this for quite some time.. They did a great job on the buildout for Cointerra and delivered everything, apparently they even went above and beyond per the suit.. Knowing them I wouldn't doubt it as they have a great team at C7..

[graymatter]

Personally I think what cointerra did was shady as crap to the C7...  The knew they weren't going to pay, and let the DC provide them power for 2 months for free and collect profits.

Right, it was a criminal conspiracy.  Cointerra's magical psychic genie told them 2 months ago BTC was heading down, and not back up to $1200.

Do you gamble on horses, and then declare the racetrack "shady as crap" only when you lose?

Do you buy stocks, and then declare your broker "shady as crap" only when your investments fare poorly?

You dumbfucks who suddenly see preplanned malfeasance only things go wrong need to understand that risk is part of life, and especially part of high-tech bleeding edge start-ups.

"You dumbfucks...."
Really?  Though I have not run across you before Icebreaker, I feel very comfortable adding you immediately to my ignore list.

OK, so not only are you the kind of dumbfuck who thinks Cointerra can predict the price of BTC and bases evil conspiracies on that knowledge, but are also the kind of dumbfuck who needs to announce who he adds to his ignore list.

You think Cointerra knew what the price of BTC was going to do two months in advance...who cares who such a paranoid dumbfuck ignores?

No icebreaker, what is shady is Cointerra was no longer profitable months ago with there cloud mining operation, and instead of paying their accounts, or saying "hey we can't cover this bill" they stayed silent.  In the meantime, they continued to profit from the operation (withholding payment to C7), they probably didn't pay themselves anything different, but chose to pay certain creditors, while not paying the data center.  In the mean time, C7 had a huge bill for JUST the electricity alone, that they paid piling up (a line of credit - that the DC didn't offer) - after 60 days of paying Cointerra's power bill, they finally shut them down.

Cointerra never evolved there equipment to a more profitable design, and because of this, were never able to compete with other miners operating at .65j/gh.  Operating at nearly 1.3+j/gh, and twice the hosting costs, means over 1/4th as profitable, in an operation that was too expensive in the first place.  $101-$105 per KW, is too much for a large scale operation with needed support. Its why I never liked Cointerra, gear they never even made an effective 28nm let alone 20nm chipset, they continued to produce units designed in December of 2014 with an older chipset.

Had they replaced old equipment with new gear, they could have been profitable (twice the hash-rate) for the same space / price, and liquidated there equipment at a reasonable cost, not the ridiculous costs they wanted for those units on there website.  They knew they were screwed (unless bitcoin price doubled) yet they continued to gamble with someones else money (C7 the datacenter) - making them pay the bill.

This is why customers we take on pay a 1 months security deposit, then pay month to month.  The one month is so if they don't pay there bill, and we shut them down for being 2 weeks late, we're not out any money other than having space available.