Bitcoin Forum

The trend line on your last picture is wrong..

There are a lot of things wrong in this thread. :P

this is not the point of this post.

Yes.

Still this is the first chance for bears to fight back (short term top at 260). If we move up again in the next two days they are in a world of pain!

Like you being here.

What is the point? You characterise the last few years as a bubble. If you drew it correctly we are at trend.

https://i.imgur.com/YFLAkwT.jpg

exactly, mmitech your manipulation TA sucks as always   ;D

that is for sure not the trend line, in the picture above, I showed all the historical available price chart, this means that trend line you drew there doesn't hold as well....the Point is the delusion and dreams of most of the bulls here around is just pathetic.

Just took a 20x short out. Thanks for the trading advice!

Funny thing is that when I first came here, mmitech was a bull. Last time I read one of his posts, was way back in the summer. He was bragging about living the good life from his Bitcoin winnings, and telling all you guys that Bitcoin was fucked and that he was totally out.

Bitcoin it self is not fucked, at least not yet, but the price is going to be fucked.... I was bullish and turned bearish, I don't see what is wrong about it!!!!  and yes I cashed out in August and I still have no regrets :)

Edit: BTW, when you first came here the market was going bullish, and it did pay off being bullish ;)

Good luck with it, it could go down but I think it is likely to keep going up.

OP, getting nervous after shorting at $220 ? :)

There is no despair yet. Not at all...

never shorted a thing in my life.


I agree.

Who would short at $220 on the bounce after a $450 - $150 move? Shorting zone for those convinced of further doom for Bitcoin is at around $300.



What makes you sure that Bitcoin's price is going to be even more fucked in the coming months?

I myself, am actually 50/50 on whether $150 was the 'bottom' and that Bitcoin might experience a trend bucking rise from here, or whether there is yet more shit storms to come.

50/50 is about as bullish as I have been on Bitcoin for a very long time.

So basicaly OP sold his coins and now is trying to convince everyone to not buy because the price will rise and he didn't bought back yet. Nice try but you forgot that bitcoin economy is growing like snow ball right now, so ...

Many people here shout that this time there is bigger support than we had in the past, and yes there is diffidently bigger support BTC wise but the dollar wise is differently the same if not lower, others said that previous bottoms didn't have such volume and this was the strongest one in months, and I agree on that one, but I think that it was mostly caused by the Bitstamp....People here are convinced that this is the bottom not because of TA, because according to all major support lines that were broken we are heading to double digits, but they are convinced because they think Wall street came to save them.

This is an opinion, but I sure am not buying a single Bitcoin at these prices, I still think that Bitcoin is waaaaaaaaay overpriced for its utility, people talk about its value, and I am sure the price don't reflect the real value of Bitcoin, it is still over priced IMHO, and if I am wrong about the price then I really don't care even if I miss the "train", because everything else still hold, there are so many things wrong that need to be fixed and pumping the price is not going to fix them.

No one is convincing you to do anything, in fact you would be a real dumb idiot if you follow a "free financial advice" on a public forum ... I am just putting this out there, for the one who are interested.

Uhm so you are putting this message on public forum for dumb idiots who follows "free financial advice"? Did I get this right?
It's not important anyway, the truth is that you don't have coin's and don't want to miss the train and it's only reason you are posting this and you don't even want to admit it to yourself. EOT for me.

No you didn't understand this right, I am putting this for the sake of opinion diversity and to make the discussion more objective rather than subjective driven by delusion bull (get quick rich kids), and you have no idea about the truth so don't pretend like you got everything figured out.

BTW, if I buy now at this price, I will still make more than double the coins I sold, but you see I am not buying and I am not missing any train, and even if I will be missing the "train", it is all yours, there is more Bitcoin related important things I care about than the price.

Opinion diversity to what, that trolls that saying that bitcoin is dead for over a year now and you should sell all right now? And if you care about other things  more that the price then why you bother calling bulls at all? Just let it go people and quit manipulating because no one who is serious bitcoin holder wont listen to this anyway and the best you can do is to be ignored by most of them.

BTW, do you see this ? this means no sane person would leave his Bitcoin on exchanges anymore, even if it is for the sake of open limited orders.... I am sure that once the price goes a bit up people will start sending coins to exchanges and executing market sell orders.


https://i.imgur.com/5xn2TwP.png

Try that going up and see how little it takes to put us back where we were 6 months ago. Then delete your thread :)

ps. worst spin ever of an orderbook I have seen yet lol

A chart like that should make shorts very nervous then. What we saw recently down to $150 were long margins getting called. If one happens in the opposite direction, that's basically showing there's no real end in sight as to where a short margin call could end up. I'm not bullish yet on BTC yet, as yes this just might be another retraction before down trend resumes, but I certainly would not be shorting seeing a chart depth like that.

I don't agree, the crash last time was driven by Bitstamp, which they don't offer leverage trading... I think it was organic crash caused by people selling off.

The thing is, in every single circle that you have drawn in these graphics, it could have very well been a reversal and therefore a good time to buy. We never know when it will really rebound so if you are here long term (10+ years) every potential rebound where you dont buy at least a bit you are risking. Not buying now is really risky. Could it happen again and go to 95? yes but if you are here long term you would not care.

So shall I join you and call moonz and WOWz ? would this be more acceptable ?

if my posts don't serve your book and if you think they are absurd, you even contradict them with evidence or else put me on ignore.

This is exactly what the told me at $600, it doesn't mater long term... well I sold then and If I wished to buy Today I would benefit either: 1) more than double of what I sold 2) buy back my stash and have the rest fiat as profit.... the thing is, I am not buying now not only because I dont think it is the real bottom, but because of other fundamental reasons.

Some folks call it buying the dips.

So you think you have a different 'opinion' than most and feel like sharing this with us. That's great and all but come on don't use the same silly old bubble chart trolls have been posting for years here now. In 2013 they showed the same chart except 2011 was the first 'sell off' phase and April 2013 was the bubble peak. Now conveniently April 2013 was actually the first sell off and December 2013 was the peak. Next year I guess the bear market of 2014 will be considered the first sell off and August 2016 will be the real peak.. We have a precedence already so it's certainly not impossible, but fact is both of us don't know what the fuck is going to happen with the price. So stop trying to pretend you're all smart and different with your very original opinion, you're just as delusional as the ones you are pointing fingers at. I don't mind diversity of opinions but I do mind your smartass and condescending attitude.

Where did you saw I was calling to the moon? Nowhere. All I am saying is that calling "to da moon" or calling other bulltards or dellusional or "bitcoin is dead", crash is comming etc is just spamming forums without writing anything constructive. And like I said best thing you will get is ignore button from most users. Because nobody know what will happen including you especially in bitcoin world.

And yes, you will go to my ignore list from now on because I suspect this account was hacked or sold.

It's possible based on EW that 150 was either the end of wave A or 4.  So don't be so sure about that bear trend.
It's entirely possible that we are at the verge of a new bull market. I wouldn't bet on it, but just saying.

That thought crossed my mind too.

this is why it is called the speculation sub-forum... and I don't know where your suspicion comes from, but hey do what ever makes you happy.

https://twitter.com/mmitech/status/559393540674191360

It's probably based on the belief most old-members are usually a bit more humble with price fluctuations and not much involved in the bear vs bull aggressive trolling and name-calling.

OK... you can always put me on ignore if you think that I am an "arrogant troll".

This +1 . Most of us just shrug now which ever way it goes now. We know BTC is not going anywhere. People who keep saying BTC is dead might as well get that into the thick skulls.

No, it's based on paranoid delusions.  Not being bulltarded gets one labeled a troll, a sock, a gubermint infiltrator, or worse...

None of this, of course, is ever true.   Earthling.

http://s8.postimg.org/faut224ad/reptile.jpg

  ~Your Beneficent Reptilian Overlords

It can't go on forever, can it? At some point there will be a true trend-reversal, and it's merely a question of recognizing that reversal. I admit it's a very difficult thing, but one of those times you're wrong by calling it a mere bull-trap!

Bitcoin is objectively going to survive, the blockchain has 100% chances os being here in 10 years, now Bitcoin, I (and Andreas agrees) has 90% to be the currency that survives, with a 10% of another currency taking over.

So it's all a game of guessing when the uptrend happens. Of course there are morons that say "its crashing its crashing" and eventually are right, same for the opposite. All these "its crashing" guys will be gone once the uptrend sets. When another crash happens, they will come back as the wizards of the market that predicted it.

Cool story mimimimitech.

Nahh, this time it really is different. I mean, how much lower is the price supposed to go in your opinion? It's almost impossible to go much lower from here. People will always be ready to pay $100 for a single coin, man.

funniest post ever.

Delusional bulls be like "fully regulated US exchange wooo!"

yet another exchange, bullish...let me buy more bitcoins.

A fully regulated US exchange is positive.

I think this analysis would hold only if Bitcoin were to be utilized for its transactional properties exclusively. Yet there is undeniable demand for just holding coins, instead of just spending them, Bitcoin being free of middlemen and all that.

Don't bother man, people here won't listen to anything that goes against their "to the moon" delusions when prices are going up short term.


They will just shut down their brain and the only things they see is dollar signs (pay attention, dollar signs, not the BTC symbol  :)) rolling in.

They would have ignored any long term bearish argument (and some of them probably did) during the bulltraps you posted too.



My take on BTC is that for over a year it has stopped being "investment material" and has simply become "(margin) trading material".
The volatility is pretty big and the liquidity is good enough (you can still move millions around, to anyone saying that it's "thin"... "thin" compared to what?). Sure penny stocks are volatile too but there is no such liquidity that makes it worth it.

Traders can make very nice trades with bitcoin. That being said, it't not "investment material" anymore. The times of 10X-50X-100X or more ROI on your whole investment are long gone, there simply doesn't seem to be the demand required for the moon scenario the permabulls still dream about while remembering the good ol' days when bitcoin "had potential" and was in its novelty-early phase when such returns were a possibility (and that's one of the reasons I bought it at the time)

Considering current fundamentals, anything more than $10 billion marketcap (BTC around $1000) is probably an unsustainable ceiling and for all we know, if it wasn't for willy and markus mtgox bots and china we wouldn't even have reached those levels in the first place.

People pointing out that the 2011 mtgox chart looks just like a bubble bursting but the price went into bubbles after that as a reason to say "you see? we have already been there, history will just repeat itself!" are just failed attempts at being clever.

I mean I posted the 2011-2014 chart comparison few months back too ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=866686.0), but just for the sake of TA and to look out for similar or different turn of events, never used it as an argument that BTC is bound to go in bear market-bubble cycles until it reaches 1 quadrillion...
That is just silly.

Prices in 2011 were more than 100 times less what they are now, liquidity was ridiculously lower and the whole landscape was completely different.

I'm not sure the world needs a bitcoin or a cryptocurrency, and if it does, it doesn't need an overpriced and overhyped one.
Sure with the blockchain or similar tech you can do plenty of fancy stuff, but such an outdated (at least today) and limited technology will certainly be replaced by something a lot better (that either exists today or will exist eventually).


Take bitcoin for what it is, "trading material" and not "investment material" anymore.

Personally I'm kinda getting tired of all the cultists around, and aside from some pure traders or posters here like Stolfi who are actually trying to be objective of what they have in front of their eyes and post actual insightful stuff, a lot of the rest is just "to the moon" delusional blind greedy kids I just can't read anymore...

Some of you points are valid, but this statement is where you completely went off the reservation.

If you can't see that a cryptocurrency NEEDS to become more valuable and more popular over time against fiat currency to be useful and a better form of money, then you missed the entire point of its existence.  And price does not matter when it is divisible to 8 decimal places, so it can never be "overpriced".

Gold would be absolutely worthless to the general world populous at $0.0001/ounce.  Get it?

This is if you take the "cryptocurrencies become mainstream CURRENCIES (and not instruments of mere speculation or gold 2.0 wannabe stores of value)" as likely.

I was more referring to the use cases when it actually makes sense to use bitcoin as opposed to regular fiat money and credit cards. AKA: drugs and illegal goods in general, donations to wikileaks and alike, funding where it would not be possible etc.

Because whether you like it or not, the Silk Road and the other black market were the only real use case that bitcoin ever had AS A CURRENCY.

The other proposed use cases are just excuses to pump and smokescreen because bitcoin doesn't really offer real advantages as a payment system over fiat money in any other domains.

You wait for DarkWallet final release and voilà: you got the only real use as a currency for bitcoin.
You might not like or agree with these use cases (I don't agree with all that either, but can't do much about it), but that's what it is.
And bitcoin doesn't need a high marketcap to fulfill these purposes.

I don't agree.  In the near future:

1. Consumers will be offered more merchant incentives (e.g., product discounts, bulk rates, etc.) to use bitcoin over fiat/credit cards
2. Daily transactions will be easier and faster with bitcoin on mobile devices (through services like CB/BitPay that will offer near zero latency)
3. Merchants will benefit more as services like Coinbase/BitPay shield them from volatility, chargebacks, and fees.
4. Transaction fees will eventually fall to near zero over time.

And all this will get better and better with time.  In ten years, it will be working at a fairly decent level.  In 20+, near optimum.  In 30, no one will even remember the early days.... at all.

I doubt the masses are interested in dealing with bitcoin when there are other alternatives like Applepay  or ripple and others which are actually faster than bitcoin since it can take up to half an hour or more for the confirmations to go through. Sure some merchants accept 0 confirmation transactions but that's not secure, you don't need the blockchain if you have to trust strangers...
I don't see it replacing credit cards when you have to buy groceries or whatever. Especially in the eyes of the masses who don't put decentralisation above how fast/easy it is to use it...
Also bitcoin transaction fees will be eventually higher as block reward is reduced (long term as you say), that is one of the limitations of the bitcoin blockchain and his proof-of-work...

Maybe other cryptos like nubits or ripple or others will make it regarding fees, not sure about bitcoin.

Your other post above was pretty reasonable, but then you had to ruin it! ;)

Unless you think that Bitcoin payment processors can work for free, there will be no discount [long term].

I never experience latency using CC, do you?

By staying away from Bitcoin, merchants don't even think about Bitcoin volatility.  No need to solve problems Bitcoin itself creates.


Transaction fees could only grow over time.  At this point, miners don't rely on tx fees because they're allowed to "print money" [bitcoin block reward], at a rate of ~12% a year.  Fees will need to compensate for decreasing block rewards.

:-\

I will just leave this here too

I got an E-mail update from Linkedin, I checked out and it seems like some of Bitstamp employees were changing their work to a new company called GateHub Limited., So I Googled it to try to understand the reasons behind it and came to find this  (https://xrptalk.org/topic/5293-opening-gatehub-february-2015/)

This is what was interesting to me:



They just shitted all over Bitcoin.

Everyone shits all over it because it deserves it right now.

Listen to this man.  It's all about what your average consumer wants.  They don't care about the blockchain, or decentralization, or cryptography, or any of these buzz words.  It doesn't matter if the government runs it, a gigantic corporation runs it, or if it's driven by a block chain.  They want something quick, easy, and reversible.  If that's Bitcoin, fine.  If that's a credit card, alrighty.  Ripple, Applepay, etc?  Doesn't matter, so long as their simple demands are met.

Something to ponder: In the physical world, business moves at a certain pace.  Anything internet-based is competitive beyond imagination and moves at an lightning pace.  Whichever payment system survives, it will have to be flexible.  That means new features being implemented in months, not years.  That means not having to beg and plead for a miner consensus.  Like it or not, delivering the latest and greatest features to the consumer will require centralization.  Bitcoin must adapt, innovate, improve, compete, etc. or it will perish.

We don't want reversible transactions....

Around October last year someone screwed me for around €7500 worth of BTC, I never saw that money again, if that money happened to be stolen/hacked from my Paypal account or Credit Card It would be back into my account in a matter of days, it hurts because I didn't find that money laying around somewhere, that amount of money is critical to many people, in fact it is critical for me as well but I didn't go bankrupt, and I learned my lesson... do I hate Bitcoin because of that, NO... will I recommend using Bitcoin to my family and friends, Hell no, not at this point.


There are so many things that needs improving before Bitcoin can get the mass adoption it needs, right now it is just a hype get rich quick scheme for the delusional hopeless speculators.

So you're suggesting that banks and credit cards be replaced with a technology where transactions cannot be disputed?  If so, I consider you to be certifiably nuts.

I want both tbh....
If I'm ordering something from some dodgy eBay seller in China I'll use PayPal
If I'm sending £100,000 to my sister in Australia, il use btc
If I'm in a third world country and I want to buy a burger and a beer I'll probably use cash

I don't know why people think it has to be all or nothing, Bitcoin and every other form of money  has its advantages and disadvantages, learn to use them   all to your benefit... /

I've almost lost much more than that through an overly complex key security scheme for one of my wallets back in the day.  The reality is that holding Bitcoins in a wallet is no different than burying gold bars in the back yard.  You've got to keep the private keys somewhere.  You lose them, you're hosed.  Lose your password which secures the keys on your computer?  Hosed.  Someone steals them, you're hosed.  I don't care what physical security protocol someone has in place, there is always a flaw which can be exploited.  There is no such thing as perfect security in the physical world.  Digital currency is great, but people need to recognize the risks of directly handling non-refundable ledger entries.  So, I agree with you as far as getting family and friends involved.  To them I say only park as much money in Bitcoin as you're willing to lose.  Banks fuck up left and right as well, but I've never lost a cent due to fraudulent transactions or loss of a banking password.  Things to consider from outside the Bitcoin echo chamber.

Fair enough, but you said "WE don't want reversible transactions .." which I took to mean consumers in general :)

That second trendline starting from the 200 bubble is too sharp, that was only a market misinterpretation of the effect of the reward halving.

well they are not alone at having such doubts about bitcoin's inherent problems... they've seen enough of bitcoin to make those conclusions, even Max Keiser doesn't shill for bitcoin and had to resort to his own clones... what worries me about bitcoin is lack of innovation, the politics that's draining resources while eventually losing its race to more efficient and user-friendly technologies... reminds me UNIX back in the days being taken over by Linux... as much as people whine about ripple being centralized,  isn't bitcoin moving towards that direction already...? soon we're going to end up with just a handful of regulated exchanges, big ass mining operators that will push out average joe... you can imagine where ripple is going to be by the time all those inherent flaws of bitcoin are addressed...? And here comes the worst test for bitcoin what happens once all those big miners exit as soon as it's fully mined, if there's not going to be real demand for blockchain the price will be so ridiculously low by then that they are not going to be there for TX fees that's for sure... as you know that hashrate is what keeps blockchain secure... At least one thing i like about ripple is that it doesn't feed greedy asic manufacturers, cloud mining operations and lazy ass clowns from bitcoin foundation...

ripple aint worth shit .......il be sticking with btc :)

lol @ ripple

Bitcoin has some serious problems that have to be addressed... But ripple... Seriously? It's not even a comparison nor competitor... If you followed the development in ripple since the start you can see how it turned from a great idea like bitcoin into some messed up rigged banking scheme.

ripple shill 1
ripple shill 2
ripple shill 3
ripple shill 4


wonderful :) now that you are all have a gathering here it's way more easier to expand my ignore list :)

Rather narrow minded summary you're giving there, and wrong as well. Since when did Ripple become a 'scheme'? I love the ignorance of a lot of people on these boards, especially regarding Bitcoin alternatives. Everything will be used to frame a credible alternative as a scam/scheme or something other negative something.

I do agree that both do not compete, and Bitcoin could remain to exist in the Ripple infrastructure, as Ripple is simply much more than simply XRP. XRP is actually just a side thing in the greater spectrum.

If by messed up you mean going into the direction of KYC practices, then I say they did a good job over there at RL. Simply because governments will never - ever - allow the existence of an untraceable currency that can be used to launder money, buy drugs or evade taxes. Ripple is actually walking the correct path so far.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=224365.0

Good thread on the ripple thing.
Fact is if big names werent involved in Ripple it would have crashed a long time ago.

The sheer fact that you would consider ripple a "credible alternative" is completely beyond me... I don't know if you're aware of the full history of the thing though, but whatever credibility it had, is long lost...
It doesn't mean there's no place for it in the world, I'm sure there is, just not in my open and free world. I'll pass on this one.

irony much?