Bitcoin Forum

Is this dream even still alive?

regulated exchanges are popping up..

mining is increasingly becoming centralized!

every idea that created bitcoin  seems to fade away.

back the dream was in  a world where you could buy or hire anything in bitcoin , the government will never be able to prove your wealth you own in bitcoin and thereby you need not pay  taxes or pay them little and keep all your wealth yourself!

Thereby, the hard to earn wealth that you earned with hard work is all yours!

But if this was true by now, some few millions from the trillions kept in Swiss banks should have flown into bitcoins market cap!

it does not happen till now because  bitcoin is not anonymous and only projects like dark wallet may be the the final spice to add to complete the recipe!

But are you losing hope? you still think bitcoin will free you one day from paying tax?

see, I am not explicitly saying that  bitcoin was created for tax evasion, but rather implying that crypto currencies will eventually result in people to be in control of their wealth and that eventually will be disruptive to the state

I never thought it would ever free me from taxes.

Only 3 things for sure in life; Birth, Death, and Taxes

Disagreed for me ;D Only two things for me and they are Birth and death like you said but without taxes .
Bitcoin will free me to pay taxes or any other Online payment method , in my country no one basically use Paypal etc ... and they don't really care so any kind of digital money you have is safe and they won't know about it at all . and Bitcoin is even better then Paypal so yeah ... BTC forever <3

~ Madness.

Death can save some people from taxes, but your remaining family might have to pay too much.
It's usually better to pay taxes then having to worry about being caught.

i always see bitcoin as an easy and cheap way to to perform cross border transaction, it is much easier then using CC or bank transfer

i belive a lot with bitcoin with realistic this year its a new adoption
not to late.

Satoshi is back.

Tax evasion is easy enough with flat, with bitcoin it's a peach. It's not a crime if you don't get caught.

It was only ever a dream in the minds of those who didn't understand what bitcoin provides and what governments demand.  If you ever thought it was possible, then you were mistaken.


Certainly.  Most people who took the time to think about it always knew that they would.


This is part of the original design of bitcoin. Satoshi said so himself multiple times.  Anyone that thought otherwise simply wasn't paying attention to what the intended design of Bitcoin was:





No.  Al the ideas that created bitcoin still exist today and are operating just fine.  What fades away are all the misunderstandings, and silly pipe dreams that users have when they are first introduced to the concept and don't know any of the facts yet.


And more products and services are available all the time. I've purchased a TV, a camera, a local newspaper subscription, a Dish satellite TV service, food and drink at a restaurant, and paid for a hotel. All with bitcoins.


There's nothing special about Bitcoin in that regard.  You can just as easily store all your wealth in physical cash (such as U.S. dollars) and keep them all hidden.  As long as you hide them well enough, "the government will never be able to prove your wealth you own in U.S. dollars".  Of course, just like with U.S. dollars, the tricky part is hiding your bitcoin well enough that they can't find it (or determine that you own it).  This is known as tax evasion, and is a crime in most jurisdictions.  Failing to pay the taxes that your jurisdiction demands of you is a risky decision that is likely to result in prosecution.


Perhaps it has?  Of course many of those that might want to hide their wealth are also concerned about protecting their wealth from the volitile nature of the bitcoin exchange rate while it's still being established.


No. I'm still confident in the long term potential for what bitcoin can bring to the market.


Still?  I never thought that in the first place.  I've been reporting income and paying the taxes on everything that I earn from bitcoin related activities since I started in early 2012.

Who said BTC has been designed with tax evasion in mind? Those who are successful in this game do not need BTC, even if it makes many things easier, but regular folks with 9to5 jobs will pay tax forever, and BTC won't change anything for them.

BTC makes it easier to start an undocumented, unregistered business, but few businesses and even fewer people can take advantage of that.
 

Exactly, as Leona Helmsley put it bluntly, taxes are for the little people.

We know that it wasen't designed for that , but I'am pretty sure that it can be used for it , I mean how they will know that you have Bitcoin since it's not related to your Bank account or credit card or something , unless they are spying on you ,they won't .

There is no such thing as tax free capitol gains. This was never actually on the table.

I don't remember Satoshi ever saying that the purpose of Bitcoin was to enable tax evasion.  I could be wrong lets check.


https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

I wonder how many people have not read Satoshi's paper?  I mean honestly it is only 9 pages long.  It is high level concepts and thus approachable to even non-programmers (except maybe the last section "calculations").  Taxes predate modern fiat currencies by thousands of years.  The Romans and Egyptians had taxes and they used precious metals.  So the system of taxation doesn't rely upon the system of fiat currencies.

I am amazed about the people who believe in all that misinformation that was spread over the years.
No, bitcoin wasn't designed to destroy governments. SN never said anything about that.

http://blog.oleganza.com/post/93767945708/bitcoin-is-not-compatible-with-the-state

Taxes are inevitable, unless we abolish governments as a whole, but I doubt we would have taxes on our minds if that happened. Taxes is how the government does everything, the government system wouldn't surivve without taxes.

This is precisely, why so many people don't want to pay tax any longer. BTC isn't enough to achieve that goal, but it can certainly help.

Bitcoin is not about paying or avoiding tax whatsoever.

It's about an independent, worldwide form of money and payment infrastrucure, that no longer depends on trust (in some authority or middle man, like a bank, who thus has enormous power over our money) but on cryprographic proof.

It's called "cryptocurrency" because it only depends on cryprography, rather than depending on banks, governments, rules, laws, and trust.

ITT: the IRS perfoming IP address cross checks and sending out audit notices.

Why do you not want to pay your taxes ? I don't think paying taxes does any harm to anyone. Its rather for the good .
You could talk about reducing the tax you pay, but its how a country developes.

What IP address? There are no IP addresses involved with Bitcoin.

Forum IP addresses.

But people don't understand that EVERYTHING they do is covered by taxes. Drive a car to the store and buy fuel, that fuel is brought to you by the government. Drive on the road, that'2s covered by taxes.

So the rich dont have to pay taxes! is tax only for the middle class and poor

And he is Japanese after all.

Bitcoin.  One Statement.
You electricity whore!
Just work, no return

What? ???

1. The IRS does not have access to any forum, let alone would they know which user is using what forum (there are thousands) and what nickname

2. Even if they had full access to all forums and their logged user IP addresses, how the hell is that related to any of my bitcoins? :???

Jesus, are you this dense? It was a joke and sarcasm, 2 things which appear to be completely off your radar.

In all fairness it's hard to convey sarcasm over the internet, especially since just about anyone can be serious about just about anything.

Well there are many countries that are certainly making the decision for you because their overly burdensome regulations or their impossibly contradictory standards.

I.E... The US treats BTC as a commodity and currency at the same time depending upon which jurisdiction you speak to and expects you to calculate capital gains losses or gains on every transaction... lol ... good luck with that.... so what are we to do ? Create a wallet that automatically uses the blockchain and calculates this for us and when you get audited you can hand the IRS agent a 500 page stack of printouts proving that you paid the correct amount? Or do you just ignore the ransom note and let them try and audit you knowing full well that your transactions can be shown to show losses if you think creatively enough?


Aside from the ethical problems people have with the manner in which taxes are collected with the presumption you are a slave and are born into debt there are many things that state governments spend taxes on in which many conscientious objectors and peaceful people are horrified that they are forced to support at the threat of kidnapping, torture and murder if they don't comply.

By all means, please believe my sarcastic statement that the IRS is going to ip trace and track down those in this thread that implied they're pro-tax evasion.  Srs bsns.

I don't think complete freedom from taxes will ever happen
The govt is too deeply entrenched in our lives, it's never gonna completely reverse

Sorry sir, I stand corrected :) You wouldn't believe the amount of stupidness that I've seen when discussing Bitcoin, both here on this forum as anywhere else. Hence I took your comment too serious :)

You guys are nuts.  "Tax" is a word that means payment.  Bitcoin is a tool for making payments.  It is a tool for paying tariffs, bills, taxes.  Call them what you will, bitcoin is for paying them.

If you had something more specific in mind then why not say so? 

I'm not sure tax evasion was part of the dream, though it certainly makes it a bit easier to do. I think the dream was being able to own decentralized money and be your own bank, though if you want to try evade taxes then thats up to the individual.

Same thing.  Or anyway those corrupt entities are the ones imposing the taxes.

Even though he was joking it wouldn't surprise me if in the future the IRS subpoenaed a users IP address from here to tie him to tax evasion. Hopefully that never happens, though.

Well bitcoin was meant to be a decentralized currency which means having no bloody government controlling the currency. To me, Bitcoin was meant to be fast, safe, anonymous, independent, cross-bordered and free...etc. Tax evading might be a cherry on that cake. I hope bitcoin does become it's own vision but who knows? Looking at the recent news reports, well...

Even today you can transfer your profit from other online businesses to BTC (through exchangers) and cash out at BTC ATM and you can avoid paying any tax.
In the future, many more people will use this method to avoid tax offices and banks and become financially free.
Of course, in such scenario, it's important that price of btc become more stable and we need more bTC ATM's around the world.
I'm still optimistic about this.

"The State" will always find ways to take their cut and punish those who avoid giving it to them. The gov basically scares people into paying taxes and nothing will change with bitcoin.

maybe its time, that story is no longer easy for state

yes, the state will need to increase VAT and sales tax to make up from its loss in profiteering elsewhere with income taxes.

It will always be easy for them as the vast majority of the general public will willingly pay them without asking questions because the feel powerless to do anything about it. If you could get masses of people involved with tax resistance it will be a different matter but that will never happen without some sort of revolution (which will also likely never happen).

I'm looking forward to the day btc is taxed. Means it's on the right track to full scale adoption.

Most countries already tax Bitcoin and most btc payment processors report to government regulators.

Or are you suggesting you look forward to bitcoin losing all its fundamental privacy properties where people don't have the choice of trying to avoid taxes? If yes, than what's the point of bitcoin in the first place? You already have fiat for that where the corrupt politicians can steal and seize your money. You do realize bitcoin sacrifices efficiency for privacy and sovereignty? It is much cheaper to simply have a database at a bank with balances like banks already do with fiat.

bitcoin taxing off blockchain raises the issue of how much you actually pay due to price swings. And there is no way of doing it on the chain. It's not tied to a country so having scripts in the actual chain paying various agencies would be cumbersome and really wouldn't fly with the average user.

yes it can save you from taxes , how ?

buy blue bird with bitcoins and eat it now you are free of taxes RIP

In some countries, the government doesn't care about people reporting about taxes related to bitcoin.

Not true. The government can still take your physical money, even without touching it or knowing where it is. And it does that by printing more money. But the government can't play alchemist with bitcoins.

I suggest you travel around the world. There are countries without any kind of income tax, and they have roads and gas stations. From my experience, the best countries in the world, with the best equipment and the nicest people, are the countries with the lowest taxes.


No, not the rich in a general sense. It's the adventurous don't have to pay tax.

This is literally the same as saying, "I am a slave and my master provides me food and clothing. Therefore without slavery I wouldn't have any food or clothes."

Lol?

Just because a prisoner uses prison toilets and sleeps on prison owned beds doesn't mean he supports the prison system.

adventurious means? those who do sky diving and scuba diving?

I no longer believe that but still believe it will make me some money someday ;)

Indeed.  Read "1984" by George Orwell and "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley.  If you have clear vision you will see we are nearly there (a warped amalgam of those two dystopian visions).  If you don't see it, you are not one of the protagonists and are possibly part of the problem.

You seem to have the wrong idea about Bitcoin, it's not about cheating the systems...or buying drugs

It's about having control of your own wealth and freedom to use it how you wish.

+1

Bitcoin is Still dieing a slow death and taking the rest of crypto with it. They have decided that crypto is too much of a threat so there killing it off. 

Wise man we have here. The truth from the start.

Op, I think it's just a matter of time until something like darkwallet becomes readily usable and works great. Then it's back to square 1 with anonymity.

Relax guys. Bitcoin has gone through 3 BUBBLES ALREADY! Bubbles pop. Take a chill pill and watch the charts.

It's like every time Bitcoin drops $20 people proclaim it's the end of the party and every time it goes up $20 IT'S TOOO TEH MOOONZ!!

Until you live in the country where there is a goverment then you will have to pay taxes. Bitcoin can help to pay less, but this is against goverment and therefore they will try to limit or even stop it. Ideal world like Utopia will became a "scam or ponzi" soon or later 😔.

It will never happen but there might be a day when all of us are getting paid in Bitcoin and then we can even pay our taxes in Bitcoin and I think the reason the exchanges are getting regulates is to stop scams.

You have no income tax, sales tax, fuel tax, etc etc in your country?  I want to live there, just our of curiosity what country do you live in?

I don't actually mind paying my taxes because I look at it like this; taxes are the annual dues I pay for my membership in the greatest country club in the world!
I get good roads, clean water, I have free medical care, the protection of my servants in the police force and fire dept. ... The list goes on.

If you don't like it move to Uzbekistan, my canada don't need you.

I'm not even sure if btc could serve as a decent tax haven, it's being regulated all over, as we speak, and I'm assuming that taxation is one of the reasons for this.

That would be Algeria mate (biggest country in africa situated on the North of Africa) .
Let's say you have a Paypal Account with 1m dollar , they won't know about it . since the banks their etc aren't accepted by paypal etc so I use other International companies to link my paypal to and algeria isn't involved
Not sure if you got what I'm trying to say :o but I guess yo did
~ Madness

Not really. If you're really smart you can avoid only one  of these options. Guess which one?  ;D

So, you are talking about tax evasion, not about countries having no taxes?

Once bitcoins get big enough they will just be taxed like fiat so there's no difference there.


Canada is the greatest country in the world? Wait, I thought that was 'Murica? ;D

Yes that's what I'am talking about , of course im not talking about countries having no taxes
I don't think there is countries without taxes unless they have tree's that gives them gold and oil .

~ Madness

I think Bitcoin will not be enough to free people from taxes but it could help in the matter.

I never believed that , Bitcoin might be good to consider as a future currency but freeing from taxes will never apply on it

Bitcoin has freed us from capital control.
Taxes - I didn't really expect to escape from taxes, just because I use bitcoin.

IMO the problem with people complaining about paying taxes is that taxes pay for vital services that government provides. Yes I think taxes are too high, and yes I think that government spends money on a lot that they should not spend it on however without everyone paying taxes I would overall be less safe and overall be worse off

The US government collects taxes on its citizens worldwide, even if they don't stay in the US and obtain any services.

Very true. We are all serfs who have merely traded one form of feudalism for another. No one owns any land anymore but we are forced at gunpoint to pay tributes regardless of ethical objections we may have . The NSA program which subverts everyones privacy - we paid for that . The drone that murders civilians without due process - we paid for that. The environment damage caused by shock and awe campaigns and neo-conservative adventurism - we paid for that . The torture in secret prisons and war crimes - we paid for that.

The truly horrific reality is how servile we act and how we allow even 1% (let alone 40-60%) of tax theft to be paid supporting these evil actions which we are responsible for.

This is true, however the majority of the tax revenue collected by the federal government is from people residing inside the US. Additionally the vast majority of the people that pay taxes outside the US who pay US taxes will return to the US (and enjoy the services the US government provides) in the near future

For me, the sad thing is in how common this point of view is.  Many people assume that these vital services can only be adequately supplied by the government.  Few people ever try to justify this assumption and, in my experience, none have truly succeeded.  Indeed, I believe that without taxes we would be overall more safe and better off.

Arguing that those complaining about taxation are unaware of its function is akin to accusing the Bitcoin developers and early adopters of being unaware that banks and the government need control over our money to help fight crime and manage the economy.  There are plenty of people here that not only understand this but are poised ready to tear such a comment apart.

Granted, there exist plenty of taxation's critics that don't know what they're talking about and could even be won over by your trite observation but it's beyond insulting to assume that all critics have spent fewer than 60 seconds considering their position.

I don't think, we would be safer, when police and courts would be replaced by private firms.
You got raped? We don't care, since you can't afford our service.

I doubt anybody.

I fail to see how Bitcoin eliminates tax. Currently we have to pay a tax when the value appreciates and when it becomes more popular there will be laws regarding other taxes too.

I have never belived bitcoin will stop me paying tax.
Does anyone really think that the US government will let things like ETF to start business if they know there not going to get any tax at the end of the day.

Taxes dont apply for the super really rich elite, they always find a way to scam the goverment.

And no you'll be paying taxes, unless you never withdraw your btc in fiat.
There will be no way to inspect every single computer for bitcoin lol.

Even if you never cash out to fiat, correct me if im wrong but i think he US government requires you to pay tax on you earnings.
If you buy BTC at say $100 then at end of financial year there worth $1000 u still have to pay capital gains tax on your profits.
I may be way off, i don't know a lot about US BTC tax laws.

Yep. There's two sides to the whole government debate, but I definitely don't like the idea of private police policing certain areas where people can afford to pay for them. People who can't afford vital services arte shit out of luck otherwise.

I never wanted to be free from taxes. Taxes are necessary for a country to run. And as I never wanted to be free from taxes I never thought of bitcoin making me free from taxes.
And for all those who think like that, most probably its possible that government will start to put tax on bitcoins. Pay your taxes in bitcoins and live happily.
P.S : You cannot evade taxes.

You're wrong. There are other alternatives to taxes or not paying taxes at all, though I'm not arguing that they're better. I'm only a fan of taxes when they're spent properly and not paid to tyrants. Sadly this is usually the case.

That is why we vote, how the government spends our tax money often depends on them retaining office for another term.

Hahahahahha. That was a good one.

Only way of paying absolutely no tax is stealing. You have to pay tax when you buy a candy. You have to pay tax when you go to toilet and use toilet paper. You pay tax on everything. Paying no tax isn't an alternative.

False. Sales tax is difficult to avoid but can be done without stealing. People can use bitcoin, barter, and even grow their own food to avoid sales tax.

If you pay for digital staff online with virtual currency like bitcoin, you will not pay tax.
Can you explain me how will I pay tax for buying and downloading some software online and paying in bitcoin?
No way.

Not with the current technology available but yes i believe some time in the next 10-20 years we will be able to avoid paying tax if needed.

It's not an either/or proposition as bitcoin is already succeeding at reducing peoples tax burden.

reasonable taxes are fine but the fact that I am paying rent which is 100 times higher than what I would pay if I could get fiat money from our central bank, is nothing short of slavery

central bank: 0.05%
bank mortgage: 1%
rental yield: 4-6%

That system is nothing short of slavery. It is almost impossble to escape because prices rise faster than anyone can save. If money was based on silver or whatever, people could rent for 10-20 years, save some silver, and then buy their own place. Prices would not increase exponentially but be mostly flat.

Almost everything (factories, land etc) are subject to the same effect, so there is a huge slavery tax on all goods and services. This is why people learn and work more and more, even though technology becomes more effective every day (e.g. 1 farmer feeding 300 people)

FIAT MONEY = SLAVERY

+1

er nope my bank made a 90k error on my $10.131.80 knc money order.....did not bother to check if they made error called the SEC
(i was a dangerous man for a week ...felt like a drug lord)....went to bank but took the PRECAUTION of filing under USA 2013 guidelines
for alt currencies on bitcoin profits etc.....showed them the bank error with my paper work at the bank while SEC guy was on phone
and of course being paranoid having taxes paid and legit biz paid off..... first words out of banker's mouth was not sorry or never mind was
something along the line to cover their butt (as i suspected it would go) and again this was around jan/2014 ordered miner nov 2013
us bitcon types were in 'desperado' mode in the news/press..anyway banker pointed out I was not a business no taxes that
was also a SEC/IRS matter etc ...so then i plop'd my legal by a cpa tax forms down cutting the asshole off at the knees and i could overhear the
SEC guy yelling on phone why was the bank wasting his time! I then boggied out of the bank and changed banks!

Later went to CPA and was fairly certain I'd have to pay 4k in taxes..i paid zip (equip deductions new biz all that) this year i made zip ...will
make more on equip deductions etc may pay 1k to 1.5k not sure yet (may pay zip again) the cpa takes care of it...considering the SEC
involvement and the over 10k sent overseas and all the forms i signed on the miner in 2013 (one of which stated i was NOT hiding assets)
I'll take that as a close shave with finance death!

but considering the alternative.....with the bank i shudder to think if i'd have walked in and not been a business with a cpa tax
form filed at that time

anyway the good news is I'm so squeaky clean i sound like i need oil when i walk or talk bitcoin.......when bitcoin hits 10k I
can spend lavishly and whatever and IRS or FED's show up ..they can eat my shorts ..I'm clean as a whistle......when I get that
speedboat and/or sports car lol :) (dare to dream) only  would have to pay capital gains at that time.....(as hopefully btc goes to the moon!)

anyway 2013 paid no taxes.....and 2014 the biz part will prob make me more $$$ then I lost mining.....next year more modest with
www.coinbase.com and buying as my friend...(maybe i should send the banker ass*ole that he is a fruit basket..I may have
been better off this year and last with equip deductions..and being legal...yeah way better off) anyway this year sucked

if NEXT year sucks i will sell my 2013 coin they taxed me mining at 1200 usd then for 200 usd or below say if that is the
case this year..and take a 'capital loss' if btc goes beanie baby will go bankrupt and also get some tax relief in the future
my cpa says the IRS can't have it both ways if you invest in equip and the IRS taxes revenue stream then you get certain
protections ..in fact the IRS imho was BULLISH on BTC they treated it as 'land' (ie farmer) and I think they expected it
to stay around $1k in value ....thus the 2013 IRS alt coin guidelines..heh who'd a thunk it....

if BTC goes back to 1000 usd next year ...i won't sweat the small stuff this year with IRS payments (if any)

(yep prob should send the damn banker a fruit basket)

anyway my situation or I'd be like you guys just a mining and figure the tax stuff out later when the powers that be
do get around to doing so..but yeah...they are fully aware of bitcoin/alts and the IRS is NEVER EVER gonna let you
mine $$$ out of thin air and not tax you on it...they MAY give you equip depreciation like a farmer for the risk etc
because in the long run the IRS always wants your business to do well (so with state and local taxes they can get 25%
off said income)

well IRS this year the crops died .....so looks pretty much like under 2013 guidllines i be a farmer don't ya know lol :)
we both are gonna have to deal with it ..you with less revenue (or none) me with acting like a whiny farmer on
my equip deductions!

bitcoin/alts never a dull moment!

No, that's only a few minutes of adventure.

Real adventure means choosing not to have any fixed income, nor a fixed address.
That's my way. I don't know yet in which country I'll be living this April (well, I'm hesitating between Italy and Ethiopia).

Having an optional currency not controlled by the government doesn't mean that i don't need to pay taxes to the government. By itself it still need taxes to run and operate and they will levy that to the citizen so we can't run away from that.

What exactly do you mean by "the government"?  I pay taxes at my restaurant directly to the waiter, and I do so with bitcoin.  The governing structure there is mostly run by the manager, with approval of a group of two owners.     

You can avoid paying most taxes by being registered somewhere you don't have to pay much.

Never, total libertarianism is delusional, im happy enough to have an alternative towards the official one.

Yes ! those who wish to pay taxes can do and those who do not wish to pay taxes must be permitted not to pay..

Why cant the government just do that...Voluntary tax..or donations to run government..

I think bitcoin could be useful for avoiding tax if you wanted to take the risk as it would be a great way to safely store your money and hide it from the prying taxman, though currently bitcoin isn't an ideal store of wealth so you could lose a lot - or gain a lot - of wealth, so there's risks. One thing is for sure that people who don;t want to pay tax can do so without the use of bitcoin and fiat works well for this if you're careful and do cash in hand stuff for work.

Anarcho capitalism is a pipe dream but Bitcoin is an amazing alternative just like gold but better since its not deprecated when compared to the modern times we live in.

No one big difference is you would have to hide those cash in some place to save from raids..

But for bitcoin, that problem does not arise..brain wallet will do magic

If you use services that exist due tax payers you should pay taxers, because if you dont you are scamming.

Yeah, I could eat and run but the reason I'm in the restaurant is that I like the place.  I want to support them if I can. 

I have never believed btc will free me from tax.
But the money will be my own, not something that can be printed out by some other entity.

I fear that bitcoin will be more taxable than most of people think, with the inevitable regulations coming to it, i wouldnt be surprised if every address registration comes in future.
In that way, tracking and taxing money and related activities would be insanely easy, and i doubt all coin mixers and similar are going to be closed eventualy on suspicion of money laundering.

cheers

I think even people of a libertarian mindset still understand that it's generally not well advised to try to dodge taxes, however one tries to do it. It'd be easier just to pay the friggin money than trying every kind of subterfuge to escape paying.

This. Plus to be true to your statements you would need to live in a country with 0 social help.

lol OP you have no idea .. bitcoin already frees 1000s of people from paying taxes.

Probably Bitcoin will help.

People need to realize that taxation isn't voluntary donating.

Perhaps a person believes that the taxes he pays help to support a good way of life for himself. So, he pays willingly, even though it is a hardship for him.

Another person believes that the taxes he pays are actually hindering the freedom that he so dearly upholds in the land of the free. But he is forced to pay anyway.

All the major nations of the world, and most of the minor ones as well, have formerly outlawed slavery. But this outlawing is a lie if one is forced to pay taxes. So it is the believers in taxation making slaves out of those who don't believe in it (and maybe themselves, as well, though they don't realize it).

The point is, slavery is alive and well in the nations of the world that have forced taxation of their people. This includes all the major nations of the word, including the U.S., Canada, Britain, Australia, New Zealand, Russia, Mexico, all the nations of South America, and you name the nation. They all formally outlaw slavery. Then they implement and uphold slavery through forced taxation.

Leaders of nations are all liars of the worst kind.

:)

It doesn't free us from tax , though it helps reduce it to a great deal if used extensively well!
Though i remember seeing a guy(legendary member) who turned his all pay and everything to bitcoin and use it! he might be avoiding alot of taxes for sure

If you are talking about Elwar, he is not avoiding taxes.

I know I have been totally ignored in this thread, but let me list a few of the taxes miners might choose to pay: electricity bill, asic delivery charge, asic unit costs, food delivery, electric light bulb, internet provider costs. 

Yeah Elwar !
But why not , as i know he get's his pay converted to BTC and then he cashes them whenever needed and is using btc to buy things , he might not be avoiding them but decreasing to good extent

He pays his income tax before converting it to BTC and he doesn't have any choice about VAT, since merchants already put it on the price. He benefits from discounts he gets for paying with BTC, but that doesn't have anything to do with avoiding taxes.

if its converting to usd it never will be but when bitcoin goes mainstream we wont have to worry about it.