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The creation of this thread was prompted by this comment https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=12156.msg10307877#msg10307877


I found it to be a very interesting read. I have personally never encountered anyone that I thought was an intelligence operative but I am open minded. If you know of someone who you believe is a counter intelligence operative, make your best case. Alternatively I'll leave this thread open to more general discussion on this topic.

Turning on moderation just to have it as an option in case I decide later but I don't plan on using it.

Please don't do that. They get enough attention as it is.

Post history is a dead giveaway for trolls. Some of them never sleep!

These same techniques are applied in other wider media as well. If you read any of Jon Rappoport's material (people should check out his material at nomorefakenews.com). He talks about how this happens in all sorts of areas. Bitcoin treads on the establishment - this is reality now. Exposing suspicious posters could be a good exercise for this community.

There is one thread in the Economics section on Keynesian economics that has posts I got suspicious about. But I'll leave it at that.

For me I would rather focus on continuing to build a

coherent
but decentralized
global
civil society

with this technology. And I think that smart and honest people deep down would want that as well. I just think spooks lack the imagination to see this as a possibility.

I was following this in the other thread, and figured I better pop in here.

There are people on many fora who I think might fit the profile. I agree, though, that accusing anyone is both pointless and possibly dangerous. If you're right, you wind up on a list somewhere that has three letters in it's name. If you're wrong, you get an innocent asshole on the list...

The problem is that the behaviours listed in that guide could just as easily apply to your garden variety internet troll. It's pretty easy to use logical fallacies to derail an argument. Spotting them, on the other hand, is not always so easy.

I would bet a fair amount of money, if I had it to bet, that this particular forum has a fair amount of government types monitoring it, whether actively participating in disinformation or not. Bitcoin and it's technological underpinnings are quite a threat to existing financial systems, and that in itself is enough to garner attention.

I think you should look at topics on controversial RL issues mostly seen in the off-topic section of the forum, where you can find some users behaving like counterintelligence & propaganda puppets. E.g. Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk - way to Russia. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=518645.0), Meanwhile in Ukraine... Revolution. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=366048.0)

"New British army elite unit to hone social media and psychological warfare

The British military is to form a new specialist force in “non-lethal” forms of psychological warfare using social media such as Twitter and Facebook to tackle the “asymmetric battlefields” of the 21st century.

The brigade will number 2,000 and will be made up of regular troops from all three services, as well as reservists and civilians, British media report."

http://rt.com/uk/228227-british-army-psychological-warfare/ (http://rt.com/uk/228227-british-army-psychological-warfare/)

Thanks I'll check it out. And I agree.


Eh. I'm not really willing to be scared of being on one of those lists. 1984 convinced me that if the government became too tyrannical and the society willing to accept that tyranny than I would rather be one of the ones who died early than one of the ones who survived and lived in that nightmare. I made a personal conscious decision long ago not to allow the threats of those psychos to change anything about my behavior or my speech. As for putting someone innocent on our own list, well if they are such a terrible troll as to appear that they may be a spook, I have no pity. Its not as if we could ever say definitively that someone is, the ideal is just to build the most convincing case that can be built and let people decide for themselves.


Will do thanks.


yea i was aware of this story. i wouldn't have taken article linked in OP as seriously if it were not for having read this story.

Technique #5 - 'ANGER TROLLING'

Statistically, there is always a percentage of the forum posters who are more inclined to violence. In order to determine who these individuals are, it is a requirement to present a image to the forum to deliberately incite a strong psychological reaction. From this the most violent in the group can be effectively singled out for reverse IP location and possibly local enforcement tracking. To accomplish this only requires posting a link to a video depicting a local police officer massively abusing his power against a very innocent individual. Statistically of the million or so police officers in America there is always one or two being caught abusing there powers and the taping of the activity can be then used for intelligence gathering purposes - without the requirement to 'stage' a fake abuse video. This method is extremely effective, and the more so the more abusive the video can be made to look. Sometimes it is useful to 'lead' the forum by replying to your own posting with your own statement of violent intent, and that you 'do not care what the authorities think!!' inflammation. By doing this and showing no fear it may be more effective in getting the more silent and self-disciplined violent intent members of the forum to slip and post their real intentions. This can be used later in a court of law during prosecution.

Wow! Professional baiting indeed

Professional indeed, and rather sobering. I'm a guy who has many times linked such videos. I've even shot a few of them, and I am an avowed and open anarchist. I learned at a rather young age that the police do not protect and serve the public, but rather their masters. I am of the firm opinion that by putting on the uniform and swearing to those masters, they have ceded their right to be considered human in favor of the collective.

This is a brilliant tactic, if true, because it makes the legitimate activist appear to be a plant, and how do you tell the difference?

And to the gentleman who started this thread, yes, I agree that we're likely already on those lists... just not sure that it's a good idea to single anyone out. I prefer to cast a broad net and see what I catch :D But you are likely right. I imagine that anyone who does not connect by TOR or similar methods to this particular forum is already on such lists.

I have been on several forums on which several individuals freely admitted they were from such and such a government department.  No big deal, they were highly knowledable in the subject matters.  Certainly this would be the case on crypto forums and several others.  Also a firearms forum, most of the people there  were LEO, glocktalk.

But here the subject is active control or distorsion by underhanded methods.  Yes that could be occurring but a simple question -

Why would this be "CounterIntelligence?"  It would be the simple operation of intelligence gathering.  Counterintelligence would be when someone in "that organization" was working for "us", in so many words.  Am I missing something?

Perhaps I am misunderstanding the meaning of this term. I was under the impression the infiltrating a group in order to promote discord, for example, would fall under the scope of that definition. Looking up definitions from several sources though would seem to indicate that it would not. What would you propose that I title this thread instead?

We're everywhere, but please don't talk about us.

Fat Ass Lazy Government Slugs that want to Disrupt Internet forums Instead of Getting a Real Job?  Lol, I don't know, given that the activity/actions/objectionable trolling could be from a multiplicity of sources.

What they don't want you to know will be censored.

Science of Shill Article on disinfo.com (http://disinfo.com/2013/09/godlike-productions-and-the-science-of-shill/)

I don't know if you are interested but i managed to track down the source of my confusion. It came from my familiarity with Operation COINTELPRO. Which i believe stands for counter intelligence program. So i was making the false assumption that counter intelligence professionals were people who were paid to  "survey, infiltrate, discredit, and disrupt domestic political organizations", as per the stated agenda of that program.

it's the second oldest profession.  of course they are here.  it's foolish to suppose they aren't

I find it interesting how receptive this community is to these ideas. Not one person has come forward yet to call me a kook for even asking the question.

I can't recall who famously said it, but it holds true. If you aren't paranoid, you're not paying attention. The idea of a government by, of, and for the people is a noble sentiment. It's also a contradiction of reality, as rulers are never held accountable by the ruled in any meainingful manner until a revolution washes them away... and then some of them usually manage to grab the rei(g)ns again to continue looting and pillaging in a systematic and careful manner, learning where the last group crossed the line too far. And they have the same tools we do, the nets, surveillance, intel/counterintel, and a whole lot of immunity granted under color of law to go with it.

If I can't control my paranoia and blow somebody's head off, I get charged with murder. If a cop does it, he gets two weeks vacation, coddlinggrief counseling, and a hero's welcome by gullible sheep who deserve to be sheared. The net has shown a spotlight on this, and people STILL don't get it.

But they will, sooner or later. No empire has ever failed to devour itself. It's the nature of the beast.

Preaching to the choir brother. I'm an anarchist myself.

I had assumed as much :P But debate is as much for the audience as the participants if the goal is finding truth.

I'll catch up later. Had a very long day and I fear I'll stop making any sense if I keep typing :D

Maybe some of us believe bitcoin (its mankind paradigm shift ideal, not just BTCBTCBTCBTC) is the greater good for the future, no matter our political and religious views, now. Most of us have very passionate debates about a lot of stuff. If they come after us because of our speech then it is over, not just for this forum... You forget one thing: the tool you are using to post on this forum might already be compromised. Remember to talk and speak here the way you would in normal life and you should be fine, perhaps  ;)

Agreed. I think everyone adopts a mask to some extent in public interaction, via fora or in real life, but it don't have to be much of one. Y'all of course can only see the dimension a person presents on here, but I try to be who I am to the extent possible in text :D

""Propagandists Use Automated Software to Spread Disinformation"

In 2013, the American Congress repealed the formal ban against the deployment of propaganda against U.S. citizens living on American soil. So there’s even less to constrain propaganda than before.

Information warfare for propaganda purposes also includes:

    The Pentagon, Federal Reserve and other government entities using software to track discussion of political issues … to try to nip dissent in the bud before it goes viral

    “Controlling, infiltrating, manipulating and warping” online discourse

    Use of artificial intelligence programs to try to predict how people will react to propaganda"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-23/propagandists-use-automated-software-spread-disinformation (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-23/propagandists-use-automated-software-spread-disinformation)

Lots of links in this article.

Sometimes ill be having a "discussion" with people and it really feels like they are failing the turing test.

I'd suspect yes simply because of the null hypothesis.  Wikileaks was important enough to lean heavily on the banks, so it would be surprising to me if Bitcoin did not open some eyes by at least that time.

As for actual participation in the chatter, I would not be very confident of this.  Possibly they have some people on the payroll to do actual projects (a-la the media, mainstream and now otherwise, which is reputed to be and seems to be highly infiltrated) and such people may participate here as a function of the work they are doing.  I keep my eyes open for people who might fit this description and have some mild suspicions from time to time, but nothing at all concrete.

In recent years, me too. In person.  >:(

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little libertarian neckbeard? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in Armchair Economics, and I’ve been involved in numerous mining pools of altcoins, and I have over 300 confirmed scams. I am trained in detecting government shills and I’m the top parking-lot scammer on localbitcoins. You are nothing to me but just another conspiratard. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, aspy. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of overweight and disabled introverts across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can mine you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my cheeto-dusted hands. Not only am I extensively trained in scamming people with fake currency, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the MTGox Relief Effort (which contains cases of Mountain Dew: Code Red) and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn shill. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.

I don't get it.

 ???

Humour, lads, it's humour! :D

If its actually funny, than it went way of my head :D.

I must admit it would have been funnier further up the thread.

Thread was still calling for it though.

It was practically every insult every hurled at a libertarian or anarchist in an over the top way.. I got a kick out of it:P

Pass whatever intoxicant you're currently using, thnx

They probably wouldn't expend many resources to manipulate a community this small, but they are definitely on reddit and facebook.

NSA whistleblower interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3owk7vEEOvs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3owk7vEEOvs)

terrifying. but also so interesting. so far it isn't impacting ordinary people but will that last? interested to see how this data collection impacts ordinary people in the future. its like doug casy says, its something to this effect, liberty is never something thats going to go away, its just that in the future you will have to purchase it. we just better all manage to somehow become wealthy enough to purchase liberty in the future.

I imagine that data collection, at least that which is passive, is going on now through social media channels and through search engine-type collection mechanisms. I guess you could also say that liberty is something that every citizen should work to uphold, both for themselves and the people around them. Liberty tools like VPN access do in fact cost something, but knowledge on how to protect your liberties still has to be worked for. For example, getting off of facebook, keeping your public web postings clean, knowing how to secure your BTC or other assets, etc.

you have to be careful with vpn's. even if they aren't logging ip's their hosting provider probably is.

You have to be careful, take your meds.

Just because you think the NSA is on to you doesn't mean they suddenly are.

Not sure i understand what you are trying to get at. I wasn't suggesting anything of the sort.

Lots of them on 4chan, get payed to derail threads and post lies when people say stuff they don't like..

are there dissidents on 4chan? what section?

Sad to hear this. Sound strange this coming from the same 4chan whose people orchestrated the Justin Bieber to North Korea prank; however, disruption agents can hide everywhere.

A good read.  Here's a simplified version of consensus cracking looks like.  Our subject seems well versed in counterintelligence tactics, although using them for profit and coin promotion.  Check out the thread 'Dooglus and his Pawn Arrogant' for more:


In addition if we read the whole thread we see the 'honest' Dooglus and his gang of pawns/tools/puppets? go through a hell of a lot of trouble trying to defend himself and discredit anyone criticizing him.


"Technique #2 - 'CONSENSUS CRACKING'

A second highly effective technique (which you can see in operation all the time at www.abovetopsecret.com) is 'consensus cracking.' To develop a consensus crack, the following technique is used. Under the guise of a fake account a posting is made which looks legitimate and is towards the truth is made - but the critical point is that it has a VERY WEAK PREMISE without substantive proof to back the posting. Once this is done then under alternative fake accounts a very strong position in your favour is slowly introduced over the life of the posting. It is IMPERATIVE that both sides are initially presented, so the uninformed reader cannot determine which side is the truth. As postings and replies are made the stronger 'evidence' or disinformation in your favour is slowly 'seeded in.' Thus the uninformed reader will most like develop the same position as you, and if their position is against you their opposition to your posting will be most likely dropped. However in some cases where the forum members are highly educated and can counter your disinformation with real facts and linked postings, you can then 'abort' the consensus cracking by initiating a 'forum slide.'"

I'm in that thread also.   Recently had to report Dooglus and friends for spam in the Goldpieces announcement thread.  He's in their bashing one of our coin users.  Then 'Arrogantx' and 'Cloverme' show up and start doing the same.  Some of the posts are still there.  I look into Arrogantx and Cloverme, they're both heavy posters/supporters of Clam in their backpost content.  I believe Arrogantx is the Arrogant mentioned in the thread.  At any rate, if you're going to invade some thread, and post off topic bullshit, why would you  have your puppets also follow you around and joining in? It's stupid obvious.  Farking WEIRDOS...
But yes, some of the tactics are commonly used by coin pump'n'dumpers, greed is a powerful motivator.

Pol mainly, check any anti semite related thread and you will find a ton of them.

So you think I'm an intelligence operative? I've not heard that one before.

I defended myself because someone was attacking me. Much as I'm doing here, now.


Oh, so I was playing both sides? I came up with a weak attack on myself just so that I could easily defeat it to make myself look better?

That's not what happened. Yes the attack was weak but that's because the attacker was dumb. What would you have done? Allow it to stand uncontested?

I don't use sock puppet accounts. I did make a second account a couple of years ago called "Just-Dice" or some such, but ended up not using it.

Hahahahaha you are the best freakin answer.

Revealed: US spy operation that manipulates social media (http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks)

Military's 'sock puppet' software creates fake online identities to spread pro-American propaganda

http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-700/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/3/17/1300366341951/General-David-Petraeus-008.jpg

The US military is developing software that will let it secretly manipulate social media sites by using fake online personas to influence internet conversations and spread pro-American propaganda.

A Californian corporation has been awarded a contract with United States Central Command (Centcom), which oversees US armed operations in the Middle East and Central Asia, to develop what is described as an "online persona management service" that will allow one US serviceman or woman to control up to 10 separate identities based all over the world.

The project has been likened by web experts to China's attempts to control and restrict free speech on the internet. Critics are likely to complain that it will allow the US military to create a false consensus in online conversations, crowd out unwelcome opinions and smother commentaries or reports that do not correspond with its own objectives.

The discovery that the US military is developing false online personalities – known to users of social media as "sock puppets" – could also encourage other governments, private companies and non-government organizations to do the same.

The Centcom contract stipulates that each fake online persona must have a convincing background, history and supporting details, and that up to 50 US-based controllers should be able to operate false identities from their workstations "without fear of being discovered by sophisticated adversaries".

Centcom spokesman Commander Bill Speaks said: "The technology supports classified blogging activities on foreign-language websites to enable Centcom to counter violent extremist and enemy propaganda outside the US."

He said none of the interventions would be in English, as it would be unlawful to "address US audiences" with such technology, and any English-language use of social media by Centcom was always clearly attributed. The languages in which the interventions are conducted include Arabic, Farsi, Urdu and Pashto.

Centcom said it was not targeting any US-based web sites, in English or any other language, and specifically said it was not targeting Facebook or Twitter.

Once developed, the software could allow US service personnel, working around the clock in one location, to respond to emerging online conversations with any number of co-ordinated messages, blogposts, chatroom posts and other interventions. Details of the contract suggest this location would be MacDill air force base near Tampa, Florida, home of US Special Operations Command.

Centcom's contract requires for each controller the provision of one "virtual private server" located in the United States and others appearing to be outside the US to give the impression the fake personas are real people located in different parts of the world.

It also calls for "traffic mixing", blending the persona controllers' internet usage with the usage of people outside Centcom in a manner that must offer "excellent cover and powerful deniability".

The multiple persona contract is thought to have been awarded as part of a programme called Operation Earnest Voice (OEV), which was first developed in Iraq as a psychological warfare weapon against the online presence of al-Qaida supporters and others ranged against coalition forces. Since then, OEV is reported to have expanded into a $200m programme and is thought to have been used against jihadists across Pakistan, Afghanistan and the Middle East.

OEV is seen by senior US commanders as a vital counter-terrorism and counter-radicalisation programme. In evidence to the US Senate's armed services committee last year, General David Petraeus, then commander of Centcom, described the operation as an effort to "counter extremist ideology and propaganda and to ensure that credible voices in the region are heard". He said the US military's objective was to be "first with the truth".

This month Petraeus's successor, General James Mattis, told the same committee that OEV "supports all activities associated with degrading the enemy narrative, including web engagement and web-based product distribution capabilities".

Centcom confirmed that the $2.76m contract was awarded to Ntrepid, a newly formed corporation registered in Los Angeles. It would not disclose whether the multiple persona project is already in operation or discuss any related contracts.

Nobody was available for comment at Ntrepid.

In his evidence to the Senate committee, Gen Mattis said: "OEV seeks to disrupt recruitment and training of suicide bombers; deny safe havens for our adversaries; and counter extremist ideology and propaganda." He added that Centcom was working with "our coalition partners" to develop new techniques and tactics the US could use "to counter the adversary in the cyber domain".

According to a report by the inspector general of the US defence department in Iraq, OEV was managed by the multinational forces rather than Centcom.

Asked whether any UK military personnel had been involved in OEV, Britain's Ministry of Defence said it could find "no evidence". The MoD refused to say whether it had been involved in the development of persona management programmes, saying: "We don't comment on cyber capability."

OEV was discussed last year at a gathering of electronic warfare specialists in Washington DC, where a senior Centcom officer told delegates that its purpose was to "communicate critical messages and to counter the propaganda of our adversaries".

Persona management by the US military would face legal challenges if it were turned against citizens of the US, where a number of people engaged in sock puppetry have faced prosecution.

Last year a New York lawyer who impersonated a scholar was sentenced to jail after being convicted of "criminal impersonation" and identity theft.

It is unclear whether a persona management programme would contravene UK law. Legal experts say it could fall foul of the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981, which states that "a person is guilty of forgery if he makes a false instrument, with the intention that he or another shall use it to induce somebody to accept it as genuine, and by reason of so accepting it to do or not to do some act to his own or any other person's prejudice". However, this would apply only if a website or social network could be shown to have suffered "prejudice" as a result.

• This article was amended on 18 March 2011 to remove references to Facebook and Twitter, introduced during the editing process, and to add a comment from Centcom, received after publication, that it is not targeting those sites.

From 2011:


From 2013:


See how that works?