Intelligence Operatives. Are they here? Make the case.

[Anon136]

The creation of this thread was prompted by this comment https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=12156.msg10307877#msg10307877

The Gentleperson's Guide To Forum Spies (spooks, feds, etc.)

http://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm

I found it to be a very interesting read. I have personally never encountered anyone that I thought was an intelligence operative but I am open minded. If you know of someone who you believe is a counter intelligence operative, make your best case. Alternatively I'll leave this thread open to more general discussion on this topic.

Turning on moderation just to have it as an option in case I decide later but I don't plan on using it.

[Bagatell]

If you know of someone who you believe is a counter intelligence operative, make your best case.

Please don't do that. They get enough attention as it is.

Post history is a dead giveaway for trolls. Some of them never sleep!

[bmarch]

These same techniques are applied in other wider media as well. If you read any of Jon Rappoport's material (people should check out his material at nomorefakenews.com). He talks about how this happens in all sorts of areas. Bitcoin treads on the establishment - this is reality now. Exposing suspicious posters could be a good exercise for this community.

There is one thread in the Economics section on Keynesian economics that has posts I got suspicious about. But I'll leave it at that.

For me I would rather focus on continuing to build a

coherent
but decentralized
global
civil society

with this technology. And I think that smart and honest people deep down would want that as well. I just think spooks lack the imagination to see this as a possibility.

[Biomech]

I was following this in the other thread, and figured I better pop in here.

There are people on many fora who I think might fit the profile. I agree, though, that accusing anyone is both pointless and possibly dangerous. If you're right, you wind up on a list somewhere that has three letters in it's name. If you're wrong, you get an innocent asshole on the list...

The problem is that the behaviours listed in that guide could just as easily apply to your garden variety internet troll. It's pretty easy to use logical fallacies to derail an argument. Spotting them, on the other hand, is not always so easy.

I would bet a fair amount of money, if I had it to bet, that this particular forum has a fair amount of government types monitoring it, whether actively participating in disinformation or not. Bitcoin and it's technological underpinnings are quite a threat to existing financial systems, and that in itself is enough to garner attention.

[Grand_Voyageur]

The creation of this thread was prompted by this comment https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=12156.msg10307877#msg10307877

The Gentleperson's Guide To Forum Spies (spooks, feds, etc.)

http://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm

I found it to be a very interesting read. I have personally never encountered anyone that I thought was a counterintelligence operative but I am open minded. If you know of someone who you believe is a counter intelligence operative, make your best case. Alternatively I'll leave this thread open to more general discussion on this topic.

Turning on moderation just to have it as an option in case I decide later but I don't plan on using it.

I think you should look at topics on controversial RL issues mostly seen in the off-topic section of the forum, where you can find some users behaving like counterintelligence & propaganda puppets. E.g. Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk - way to Russia., Meanwhile in Ukraine... Revolution.

[Bagatell]

"New British army elite unit to hone social media and psychological warfare

The British military is to form a new specialist force in “non-lethal” forms of psychological warfare using social media such as Twitter and Facebook to tackle the “asymmetric battlefields” of the 21st century.

The brigade will number 2,000 and will be made up of regular troops from all three services, as well as reservists and civilians, British media report."

http://rt.com/uk/228227-british-army-psychological-warfare/

[Anon136]

These same techniques are applied in other wider media as well. If you read any of Jon Rappoport's material (people should check out his material at nomorefakenews.com). He talks about how this happens in all sorts of areas. Bitcoin treads on the establishment - this is reality now. Exposing suspicious posters could be a good exercise for this community.

Thanks I'll check it out. And I agree.

I agree, though, that accusing anyone is both pointless and possibly dangerous. If you're right, you wind up on a list somewhere that has three letters in it's name. If you're wrong, you get an innocent asshole on the list...

Eh. I'm not really willing to be scared of being on one of those lists. 1984 convinced me that if the government became too tyrannical and the society willing to accept that tyranny than I would rather be one of the ones who died early than one of the ones who survived and lived in that nightmare. I made a personal conscious decision long ago not to allow the threats of those psychos to change anything about my behavior or my speech. As for putting someone innocent on our own list, well if they are such a terrible troll as to appear that they may be a spook, I have no pity. Its not as if we could ever say definitively that someone is, the ideal is just to build the most convincing case that can be built and let people decide for themselves.

The creation of this thread was prompted by this comment https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=12156.msg10307877#msg10307877

The Gentleperson's Guide To Forum Spies (spooks, feds, etc.)

http://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm

I found it to be a very interesting read. I have personally never encountered anyone that I thought was a counterintelligence operative but I am open minded. If you know of someone who you believe is a counter intelligence operative, make your best case. Alternatively I'll leave this thread open to more general discussion on this topic.

Turning on moderation just to have it as an option in case I decide later but I don't plan on using it.

I think you should look at topics on controversial RL issues mostly seen in the off-topic section of the forum, where you can find some users behaving like counterintelligence & propaganda puppets. E.g. Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk - way to Russia., Meanwhile in Ukraine... Revolution.

Will do thanks.

"New British army elite unit to hone social media and psychological warfare

The British military is to form a new specialist force in “non-lethal” forms of psychological warfare using social media such as Twitter and Facebook to tackle the “asymmetric battlefields” of the 21st century.

The brigade will number 2,000 and will be made up of regular troops from all three services, as well as reservists and civilians, British media report."

http://rt.com/uk/228227-british-army-psychological-warfare/

yea i was aware of this story. i wouldn't have taken article linked in OP as seriously if it were not for having read this story.

[Wilikon]

The creation of this thread was prompted by this comment https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=12156.msg10307877#msg10307877

The Gentleperson's Guide To Forum Spies (spooks, feds, etc.)

http://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm

I found it to be a very interesting read. I have personally never encountered anyone that I thought was a counterintelligence operative but I am open minded. If you know of someone who you believe is a counter intelligence operative, make your best case. Alternatively I'll leave this thread open to more general discussion on this topic.

Turning on moderation just to have it as an option in case I decide later but I don't plan on using it.

Technique #5 - 'ANGER TROLLING'

Statistically, there is always a percentage of the forum posters who are more inclined to violence. In order to determine who these individuals are, it is a requirement to present a image to the forum to deliberately incite a strong psychological reaction. From this the most violent in the group can be effectively singled out for reverse IP location and possibly local enforcement tracking. To accomplish this only requires posting a link to a video depicting a local police officer massively abusing his power against a very innocent individual. Statistically of the million or so police officers in America there is always one or two being caught abusing there powers and the taping of the activity can be then used for intelligence gathering purposes - without the requirement to 'stage' a fake abuse video. This method is extremely effective, and the more so the more abusive the video can be made to look. Sometimes it is useful to 'lead' the forum by replying to your own posting with your own statement of violent intent, and that you 'do not care what the authorities think!!' inflammation. By doing this and showing no fear it may be more effective in getting the more silent and self-disciplined violent intent members of the forum to slip and post their real intentions. This can be used later in a court of law during prosecution.

Wow! Professional baiting indeed

[Biomech]

The creation of this thread was prompted by this comment https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=12156.msg10307877#msg10307877

The Gentleperson's Guide To Forum Spies (spooks, feds, etc.)

http://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm

I found it to be a very interesting read. I have personally never encountered anyone that I thought was a counterintelligence operative but I am open minded. If you know of someone who you believe is a counter intelligence operative, make your best case. Alternatively I'll leave this thread open to more general discussion on this topic.

Turning on moderation just to have it as an option in case I decide later but I don't plan on using it.

Technique #5 - 'ANGER TROLLING'

Statistically, there is always a percentage of the forum posters who are more inclined to violence. In order to determine who these individuals are, it is a requirement to present a image to the forum to deliberately incite a strong psychological reaction. From this the most violent in the group can be effectively singled out for reverse IP location and possibly local enforcement tracking. To accomplish this only requires posting a link to a video depicting a local police officer massively abusing his power against a very innocent individual. Statistically of the million or so police officers in America there is always one or two being caught abusing there powers and the taping of the activity can be then used for intelligence gathering purposes - without the requirement to 'stage' a fake abuse video. This method is extremely effective, and the more so the more abusive the video can be made to look. Sometimes it is useful to 'lead' the forum by replying to your own posting with your own statement of violent intent, and that you 'do not care what the authorities think!!' inflammation. By doing this and showing no fear it may be more effective in getting the more silent and self-disciplined violent intent members of the forum to slip and post their real intentions. This can be used later in a court of law during prosecution.

Wow! Professional baiting indeed

Professional indeed, and rather sobering. I'm a guy who has many times linked such videos. I've even shot a few of them, and I am an avowed and open anarchist. I learned at a rather young age that the police do not protect and serve the public, but rather their masters. I am of the firm opinion that by putting on the uniform and swearing to those masters, they have ceded their right to be considered human in favor of the collective.

This is a brilliant tactic, if true, because it makes the legitimate activist appear to be a plant, and how do you tell the difference?

And to the gentleman who started this thread, yes, I agree that we're likely already on those lists... just not sure that it's a good idea to single anyone out. I prefer to cast a broad net and see what I catch But you are likely right. I imagine that anyone who does not connect by TOR or similar methods to this particular forum is already on such lists.

[Spendulus]

The creation of this thread was prompted by this comment https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=12156.msg10307877#msg10307877

The Gentleperson's Guide To Forum Spies (spooks, feds, etc.)

http://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm

I found it to be a very interesting read. I have personally never encountered anyone that I thought was a counterintelligence operative but I am open minded. If you know of someone who you believe is a counter intelligence operative, make your best case. Alternatively I'll leave this thread open to more general discussion on this topic.

Turning on moderation just to have it as an option in case I decide later but I don't plan on using it.

Technique #5 - 'ANGER TROLLING'

Statistically, there is always a percentage of the forum posters who are more inclined to violence. In order to determine who these individuals are, it is a requirement to present a image to the forum to deliberately incite a strong psychological reaction. From this the most violent in the group can be effectively singled out for reverse IP location and possibly local enforcement tracking. To accomplish this only requires posting a link to a video depicting a local police officer massively abusing his power against a very innocent individual. Statistically of the million or so police officers in America there is always one or two being caught abusing there powers and the taping of the activity can be then used for intelligence gathering purposes - without the requirement to 'stage' a fake abuse video. This method is extremely effective, and the more so the more abusive the video can be made to look. Sometimes it is useful to 'lead' the forum by replying to your own posting with your own statement of violent intent, and that you 'do not care what the authorities think!!' inflammation. By doing this and showing no fear it may be more effective in getting the more silent and self-disciplined violent intent members of the forum to slip and post their real intentions. This can be used later in a court of law during prosecution.

Wow! Professional baiting indeed

Professional indeed, and rather sobering. I'm a guy who has many times linked such videos. I've even shot a few of them, and I am an avowed and open anarchist. I learned at a rather young age that the police do not protect and serve the public, but rather their masters. I am of the firm opinion that by putting on the uniform and swearing to those masters, they have ceded their right to be considered human in favor of the collective.

This is a brilliant tactic, if true, because it makes the legitimate activist appear to be a plant, and how do you tell the difference?

And to the gentleman who started this thread, yes, I agree that we're likely already on those lists... just not sure that it's a good idea to single anyone out. I prefer to cast a broad net and see what I catch But you are likely right. I imagine that anyone who does not connect by TOR or similar methods to this particular forum is already on such lists.

I have been on several forums on which several individuals freely admitted they were from such and such a government department.  No big deal, they were highly knowledable in the subject matters.  Certainly this would be the case on crypto forums and several others.  Also a firearms forum, most of the people there  were LEO, glocktalk.

But here the subject is active control or distorsion by underhanded methods.  Yes that could be occurring but a simple question -

Why would this be "CounterIntelligence?"  It would be the simple operation of intelligence gathering.  Counterintelligence would be when someone in "that organization" was working for "us", in so many words.  Am I missing something?

[Anon136]

I have been on several forums on which several individuals freely admitted they were from such and such a government department.  No big deal, they were highly knowledable in the subject matters.  Certainly this would be the case on crypto forums and several others.  Also a firearms forum, most of the people there  were LEO, glocktalk.

But here the subject is active control or distorsion by underhanded methods.  Yes that could be occurring but a simple question -

Why would this be "CounterIntelligence?"  It would be the simple operation of intelligence gathering.  Counterintelligence would be when someone in "that organization" was working for "us", in so many words.  Am I missing something?

Perhaps I am misunderstanding the meaning of this term. I was under the impression the infiltrating a group in order to promote discord, for example, would fall under the scope of that definition. Looking up definitions from several sources though would seem to indicate that it would not. What would you propose that I title this thread instead?

[Possum577]

We're everywhere, but please don't talk about us.

[Spendulus]

I have been on several forums on which several individuals freely admitted they were from such and such a government department.  No big deal, they were highly knowledable in the subject matters.  Certainly this would be the case on crypto forums and several others.  Also a firearms forum, most of the people there  were LEO, glocktalk.

But here the subject is active control or distorsion by underhanded methods.  Yes that could be occurring but a simple question -

Why would this be "CounterIntelligence?"  It would be the simple operation of intelligence gathering.  Counterintelligence would be when someone in "that organization" was working for "us", in so many words.  Am I missing something?

Perhaps I am misunderstanding the meaning of this term. I was under the impression the infiltrating a group in order to promote discord, for example, would fall under the scope of that definition. Looking up definitions from several sources though would seem to indicate that it would not. What would you propose that I title this thread instead?

Fat Ass Lazy Government Slugs that want to Disrupt Internet forums Instead of Getting a Real Job?  Lol, I don't know, given that the activity/actions/objectionable trolling could be from a multiplicity of sources.

[bl4kjaguar]

What they don't want you to know will be censored.

Science of Shill Article on disinfo.com

[Anon136]

I have been on several forums on which several individuals freely admitted they were from such and such a government department.  No big deal, they were highly knowledable in the subject matters.  Certainly this would be the case on crypto forums and several others.  Also a firearms forum, most of the people there  were LEO, glocktalk.

But here the subject is active control or distorsion by underhanded methods.  Yes that could be occurring but a simple question -

Why would this be "CounterIntelligence?"  It would be the simple operation of intelligence gathering.  Counterintelligence would be when someone in "that organization" was working for "us", in so many words.  Am I missing something?

Perhaps I am misunderstanding the meaning of this term. I was under the impression the infiltrating a group in order to promote discord, for example, would fall under the scope of that definition. Looking up definitions from several sources though would seem to indicate that it would not. What would you propose that I title this thread instead?

Fat Ass Lazy Government Slugs that want to Disrupt Internet forums Instead of Getting a Real Job?  Lol, I don't know, given that the activity/actions/objectionable trolling could be from a multiplicity of sources.

I don't know if you are interested but i managed to track down the source of my confusion. It came from my familiarity with Operation COINTELPRO. Which i believe stands for counter intelligence program. So i was making the false assumption that counter intelligence professionals were people who were paid to  "survey, infiltrate, discredit, and disrupt domestic political organizations", as per the stated agenda of that program.

[grendel25]

it's the second oldest profession.  of course they are here.  it's foolish to suppose they aren't

[Anon136]

it's the second oldest profession.  of course they are here.  it's foolish to suppose they aren't

I find it interesting how receptive this community is to these ideas. Not one person has come forward yet to call me a kook for even asking the question.

[Biomech]

it's the second oldest profession.  of course they are here.  it's foolish to suppose they aren't

I find it interesting how receptive this community is to these ideas. Not one person has come forward yet to call me a kook for even asking the question.

I can't recall who famously said it, but it holds true. If you aren't paranoid, you're not paying attention. The idea of a government by, of, and for the people is a noble sentiment. It's also a contradiction of reality, as rulers are never held accountable by the ruled in any meainingful manner until a revolution washes them away... and then some of them usually manage to grab the rei(g)ns again to continue looting and pillaging in a systematic and careful manner, learning where the last group crossed the line too far. And they have the same tools we do, the nets, surveillance, intel/counterintel, and a whole lot of immunity granted under color of law to go with it.

If I can't control my paranoia and blow somebody's head off, I get charged with murder. If a cop does it, he gets two weeks vacation, coddlinggrief counseling, and a hero's welcome by gullible sheep who deserve to be sheared. The net has shown a spotlight on this, and people STILL don't get it.

But they will, sooner or later. No empire has ever failed to devour itself. It's the nature of the beast.

[Anon136]

I can't recall who famously said it, but it holds true. If you aren't paranoid, you're not paying attention. The idea of a government by, of, and for the people is a noble sentiment. It's also a contradiction of reality, as rulers are never held accountable by the ruled in any meainingful manner until a revolution washes them away... and then some of them usually manage to grab the rei(g)ns again to continue looting and pillaging in a systematic and careful manner, learning where the last group crossed the line too far. And they have the same tools we do, the nets, surveillance, intel/counterintel, and a whole lot of immunity granted under color of law to go with it.

If I can't control my paranoia and blow somebody's head off, I get charged with murder. If a cop does it, he gets two weeks vacation, coddlinggrief counseling, and a hero's welcome by gullible sheep who deserve to be sheared. The net has shown a spotlight on this, and people STILL don't get it.

But they will, sooner or later. No empire has ever failed to devour itself. It's the nature of the beast.

Preaching to the choir brother. I'm an anarchist myself.

[Biomech]

I can't recall who famously said it, but it holds true. If you aren't paranoid, you're not paying attention. The idea of a government by, of, and for the people is a noble sentiment. It's also a contradiction of reality, as rulers are never held accountable by the ruled in any meainingful manner until a revolution washes them away... and then some of them usually manage to grab the rei(g)ns again to continue looting and pillaging in a systematic and careful manner, learning where the last group crossed the line too far. And they have the same tools we do, the nets, surveillance, intel/counterintel, and a whole lot of immunity granted under color of law to go with it.

If I can't control my paranoia and blow somebody's head off, I get charged with murder. If a cop does it, he gets two weeks vacation, coddlinggrief counseling, and a hero's welcome by gullible sheep who deserve to be sheared. The net has shown a spotlight on this, and people STILL don't get it.

But they will, sooner or later. No empire has ever failed to devour itself. It's the nature of the beast.

Preaching to the choir brother. I'm an anarchist myself.

I had assumed as much But debate is as much for the audience as the participants if the goal is finding truth.

I'll catch up later. Had a very long day and I fear I'll stop making any sense if I keep typing