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Title: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 16, 2015, 03:17:13 PM I am getting so sick of seeing pointless, rubbish ad-sig posts in every single topic on this forum that I have started this topic just to allow others that have something that might be of any actual interest to others to post in.
Rules are: 1. If you have an ad-sig then I will delete your post no matter how "relevant" you think it is (go and post somewhere else - you have plenty of places to do that and I am sick of you guys trying to "defend yourselves"). 2. If you post crap or abuse I'll delete that too. Let's see if it is possible to actually have some enlightened posts on this forum again. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed but rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 16, 2015, 03:20:00 PM Some interesting discussion might be about the fact that Bitcoin 0.10.0 has been released (with a lot of great new features from what I have read).
Also apparently Ethereum have announced a decentralised exchange (have only seen a youtube link about that so far so if there is a non-video link that would be of interest to me as youtube is problematic when you live in China). Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 16, 2015, 04:25:02 PM The lack of posting is telling in itself (it would be interesting to actually see the stats about just how many forum posts are from posters with ad-sigs).
I wonder if any of the admins are able to come up with a reasonable guesstimate? Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed but rubbish posts Post by: arbitrage001 on February 16, 2015, 04:35:08 PM Some interesting discussion might be about the fact that Bitcoin 0.10.0 has been released (with a lot of great new features from what I have read). Also apparently Ethereum have announced a decentralised exchange (have only seen a youtube link about that so far so if there is a non-video link that would be of interest to me as youtube is problematic when you live in China). Haven't heard anything on Ethereum from a while. Thought they ran off with our bitcoin and retired in Hawaii. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed but rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 16, 2015, 04:36:42 PM Haven't heard anything on Ethereum from a while. Thought they ran off with our bitcoin and retired in Hawaii. I did find one link about their "exchange application" (http://www.meetup.com/Ethereum-Denver/events/193412162/) but from what I can gather it really is nothing different to what Counterparty or Mastercoin already have (maybe I missed something though). Also I just noticed that is an old posting (July 2014) so perhaps nothing at all new has happened with that. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: DannyHamilton on February 16, 2015, 04:40:00 PM Many months ago I adopted a shoot first policy on members with ads in their sig. I began reflexively clicking "ignore" on any poster that had an ad in their sig. I only un-ignore when I encounter quotes of things that poster has said that indicate that they actually contribute useful, helpful, or interesting things.
This has made bitcointalk a much more useful and much more pleasant place to participate in. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 16, 2015, 04:42:29 PM Whilst I think your method is probably now advised I do find it disappointing that the forum forces people who are actually of benefit (by posting very useful advice such as yourself) to have to spend much of their time clicking Ignore simply because the forum seems to think it is fine to just pile everything in a bunch of shit posts so some people can earn (very small amounts of) money from that.
I had tried other ways to "protest" about this before and each has been of no use - so having a "no ad-sig allowed" topic is perhaps my "last attempt" at trying to raise this issue. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 16, 2015, 05:04:10 PM Again the rules are clear (yes I expected ad-sig posters to try and defend themselves) - so ad-sig posters just post everywhere else (I think you can restrain yourselves not to post in one topic or can't you?).
And no - my sig is not part of any ad-sig sponsor campaign (obviously as no-one else has it in their sig and the only links are to GPG and a Bitcoin address). Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed but rubbish posts Post by: abyrnes81 on February 16, 2015, 05:06:08 PM Some interesting discussion might be about the fact that Bitcoin 0.10.0 has been released (with a lot of great new features from what I have read). Also apparently Ethereum have announced a decentralised exchange (have only seen a youtube link about that so far so if there is a non-video link that would be of interest to me as youtube is problematic when you live in China). What do you think of the colored-coin ? Will be it a great feature or not ? Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 16, 2015, 05:08:25 PM We have seen some interesting stuff already with coloured coins in regards to Counterparty and Mastercoin.
From the perspective of "smart contracts" the main issue I think is just going to be one of performance (i.e. confirmation times). Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: gadman2 on February 16, 2015, 05:08:40 PM Agreed. Never had a paid signature in mine. Infact, I haven't changed my sig since I even started this board. I don't even offer my vanity address service any more; I sold my rig.
Probably should change it. I've even noted a while back that most posts from really stupid threads are probably from the same person just grinding the paid advertisements by themselves. After I noted it in a certain thread, it stopped on that one and started on a new one lol: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=885254.msg9776174#msg9776174 Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 16, 2015, 05:12:50 PM Some people just don't seem to understand the difference between having a "sig" (which might have a link to a topic or a Bitcoin address or GPG key) and an ad-sig but I think most of us who are sick of the pointless posts *all see this*.
Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: gadman2 on February 16, 2015, 05:14:17 PM Well, first time I used the block button on this forum also. Children lol ::)
Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 16, 2015, 05:18:39 PM It is funny that when even asked to simply not post in one single topic - they just can't (maybe they fear I might actually have some effect and reduce their pointless post income).
This is the kind of problem that the posting on this forum has come to (no topic can escape being spammed with ad-sig posts even if explicitly stated that that is not acceptable). Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: abyrnes81 on February 16, 2015, 05:23:15 PM We have seen some interesting stuff already with coloured coins in regards to Counterparty and Mastercoin. From the perspective of "smart contracts" the main issue I think is just going to be one of performance (i.e. confirmation times). thanks for your answer, I'm also think the colored-coin feauture will work only for the "little part" (maybe "private" contract). Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 16, 2015, 05:25:32 PM For things of "high value" (such as say property titles) then IMO the Bitcoin confirmation time is of no issue (so those things a very suitable to work as "coloured coins" backed by the power of the Bitcoin blockchain).
For things of much "lower value" I think less powerful blockchains (that have faster confirmation times) might be more suitable (and that doesn't mean I am championing any particular "alt"). Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: pinkman12345 on February 16, 2015, 05:28:33 PM CIYAM are you the guy on the BURST dev team?
Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 16, 2015, 05:30:08 PM CIYAM are you the guy on the BURST dev team? I help them with AT (but I am not paid by them or anyone else). Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: pinkman12345 on February 16, 2015, 05:33:02 PM CIYAM are you the guy on the BURST dev team? I help them with AT (but I am not paid by them or anyone else). i have the wallet but i don't see any AT's when i click the AT button on sidebar, all i have is a 'create AT' button... am i doing something incredibly wrong? Also, have you worked on the Ethereum project at all? which one is better? Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: runam0k on February 16, 2015, 05:33:40 PM You know you can hide all user sigs, right?
Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 16, 2015, 05:36:30 PM You'd probably best to ask Vasilis or one of the Burst team about any issues you are having with AT.
Whether one idea is "better" than another is a very subjective thing (and not something I am going to wade into). The Ethereum project has a lot of funding and some very talented people working on it (more than the AT project as we have very little funds and therefore pretty much only volunteers). Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 16, 2015, 05:37:21 PM You know you can hide all user sigs, right? This has been brought up many, many times. It is not the sigs themselves but the pointless posts that is the issue (there is no option to "hide all posts by ad-sig posters" which would be something I'd gladly use if it were available). Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: abyrnes81 on February 16, 2015, 05:39:15 PM You know you can hide all user sigs, right? This has been brought up many, many times. It is not the sigs themselves but the pointless posts that is the issue. So is not it better to disable the sig view and let people write (and you will delete all the not constructive posts)? Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 16, 2015, 05:41:22 PM So is not it better to disable the sig view and let people write (and you will delete all the not constructive posts)? And that is the issue - if you want a "nice experience" on this forum now you have to either spend most of your time clicking Ignore for every ad-sig poster (which could eventually cause performance issues depending upon how that is actually implemented) or create a self-moderated topic like this one and monitor every post like a hawk (I have already deleted around 6 and that's in a topic that specifically says "no ad-sig posters allowed"). Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: DannyHamilton on February 16, 2015, 05:41:44 PM You know you can hide all user sigs, right? That's a horrible idea. Then how would I know who to click "ignore" on? Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: DannyHamilton on February 16, 2015, 05:44:23 PM you have to either spend most of your time clicking Ignore for every ad-sig poster (which could eventually cause performance issues depending upon how that is actually implemented) Actually, I'm hoping for that. If we all ignore nearly all the posters that have sig ads, and if that eventually causes significant performance issues on the bitcointalk servers, it might force Theymos' hand into either better moderation, or better tools to deal with such individuals. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 16, 2015, 05:46:00 PM Hehe - my guess is that it probably uses a NOT IN clause which will start to cause problems if many users have ignore lists in the thousands.
Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: abyrnes81 on February 16, 2015, 05:47:48 PM So is not it better to disable the sig view and let people write (and you will delete all the not constructive posts)? And that is the issue - if you want a "nice experience" on this forum now you have to either spend most of your time clicking Ignore for every ad-sig poster (which could eventually cause performance issues depending upon how that is actually implemented) or create a self-moderated topic like this one and monitor every post like a hawk (I have already deleted around 6 and that's in a topic that specifically says "no ad-sig posters allowed"). You are right. You know you can hide all user sigs, right? That's a horrible idea. Then how would I know who to click "ignore" on? Wear/put an ad-sig doesn't mean you will pubblish a "not constructive" posts. Maybe some users have a different opinion, this is normal. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 16, 2015, 05:49:16 PM Wear/put an ad-sig doesn't mean you will pubblish a "not constructive" posts. Maybe some users have a different opinion, this is normal. Unfortunately as others are agreeing to here - the *vast majority* of ad-sig posts are just rubbish (so just because 1 out of 100 could be useful doesn't make it something we should just put up with). Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: abyrnes81 on February 16, 2015, 05:50:34 PM So is not it better to disable the sig view and let people write (and you will delete all the not constructive posts)? It's gotten to the point where I don't even need to bother to read the posts from the sig spammers in order to decide if they are useful or not. The huge majority of the time, they are just spam. Therefor the sigs themselves actually make it easier to know who to ignore and I am comfortable with the fact that I may miss an occasional useful post from a sig spammer. The best solution is one which entirely removes the incentive to spam. I don't think the signature campaigns will be totally banned, it is a "way" for the newbies (or better to those don't have the possibility to buy BTC) for make some "free" bitcoins. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 16, 2015, 05:51:38 PM Then let them do that in a "newbie" area (I wish they would bring that back) and ban it elsewhere.
To be more clear IMO areas to do with Technical Development and Project Development (the more serious areas of this forum) should really be "off-bounds" for rubbish posts (in areas such as Speculation which I don't go near anyway I couldn't really care less). Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: DannyHamilton on February 16, 2015, 05:55:20 PM You know you can hide all user sigs, right? That's a horrible idea. Then how would I know who to click "ignore" on? Wear/put an ad-sig doesn't mean you will pubblish a "not constructive" posts. Maybe some users have a different opinion, this is normal. No. It doesn't mean you WILL publish "not constructive" posts, but it raises the likelihood beyond a level that I'm interested in tolerating (I think many members of this forum can confirm I have a rather high tolerance for newbie posts). As such, I'm happy to miss out on the occasional single constructive post in order to avoid needing to scan through thousands of crap posts. And individuals that actually want to participate constructively will find that there is an incentive to not include sig spam (as most constructive members will be ignoring anything they say). Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: abyrnes81 on February 16, 2015, 06:13:21 PM Then let them do that in a "newbie" area (I wish they would bring that back) and ban it elsewhere. To be more clear IMO areas to do with Technical Development and Project Development (the more serious areas of this forum) should really be "off-bounds" for rubbish posts (in areas such as Speculation which I don't go near anyway I couldn't really care less). If a member with no ad-sign (like me) posted a "rubbish" post (your definition) in one of the board that you have reported (Technical Development and Project Development). Will this it "right" for you? is it a problem? Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: inBitweTrust on February 16, 2015, 06:14:20 PM I like this idea and it is likely that the future forum will include sigs as the forum operators are incentivised by a high traffic site all these shill accounts create regardless of the quality of posts. Thus we may need to create our own solution.
The one problem I see is searching through and reading one long thread is problematic if one wants to focus on a specific topic or news item. Perhaps the solution is to each create new self moderated threads for every new topic and have a 1 sentence explanation in each of our sigs that all posts that break forum rules and/or contain paid sigs will immediately be deleted? Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 16, 2015, 06:15:08 PM I incorrectly deleted a post which I just assumed was from an ad-sig due to having a "colourful sig". I admit that was my mistake but this is unfortunately the kind of problem that this whole ad-sig thing has led to (and I do not have "saint-like" patience like Danny) as we just become conditioned to ignoring posts with colorful sigs in the assumption that it is not even worth reading.
Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 16, 2015, 06:17:03 PM If a member with no ad-sign (like me) posted a "rubbish" post (your definition) in one of the board that you have reported (Technical Development and Project Development). Will this it "right" for you? is it a problem? It is not "up to me" to decide the quality of posts (that should be up to the majority who have an interest in the particular area to decide). But I think that the majority of us would probably agree that a +1 post is of zero interest. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: DannyHamilton on February 16, 2015, 06:18:32 PM If a member with no ad-sign (like me) posted a "rubbish" post (your definition) in one of the board that you have reported (Technical Development and Project Development). Will this it "right" for you? is it a problem? I would report the post as being "off-topic" and a moderator would remove it. Since there wouldn't be any incentive to create such posts, there wouldn't be very many of them to deal with. With sig ad campaigns, there is a monetary incentive to continue to create many off-topic, unnecessary, useless, unhelpful posts. Therefore reporting the post and having it removed is insufficient. It will simply be followed with more and more of the same. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: abyrnes81 on February 16, 2015, 06:21:34 PM If a member with no ad-sign (like me) posted a "rubbish" post (your definition) in one of the board that you have reported (Technical Development and Project Development). Will this it "right" for you? is it a problem? It is not "up to me" to decide the quality of posts (that should be up to the majority who have an interest in the particular area to decide). But I think that the majority of us would probably agree that a +1 post is of zero interest. Ok thanks for your information. Everyone of us have his personal thought of what is "constructive" and what is not constructive Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 16, 2015, 06:24:05 PM Ok thanks for your information. Everyone of us have his personal thought of what is "constructive" and what is not constructive Apart from +1 posts I see plenty of posts that say (in very poor English) "I don't understand this topic as it is way too technical" (always from ad-sig posters). I think it would be hard to find many that think such posts are "constructive" in any way at all. And I know for a fact that Danny (who tries very hard to help out newbies) is constantly fighting against people offering "bad advice" (based upon "completely factually incorrect" statements and assumptions just because they are trying to earn BTC from their ad-sig). Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: steeev on February 17, 2015, 01:01:57 AM hi ian,
Although lacking any technical expertise, i do like to read discussions and threads on various aspects of Bitcoin, and lately there's been a fair amount of talk around the block size limit, and around the idea to increase it to 20MB... i recently read 'Economic Fallacies and the Block Size Limit, part 1 and 2' by Justus Ranvier - https://bitcoinism.liberty.me/2015/01/21/economic-fallacies-and-the-block-size-limit-part-1-scarcity/ https://bitcoinism.liberty.me/2015/02/09/economic-fallacies-and-the-block-size-limit-part-2-price-discovery/ i wondered if you have read this, and any considerations you have of what is being proposed, as it takes rather a different approach to the idea being more broadly discussed. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: jonald_fyookball on February 17, 2015, 01:19:40 AM how do ad sig campaigns benefit the forum?
why not just force advertisers to buy ad space from the forum directly? Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: inBitweTrust on February 17, 2015, 01:44:38 AM how do ad sig campaigns benefit the forum? why not just force advertisers to buy ad space from the forum directly? There are conflicting interests at play and not all of them profit driven. Some reasons being a free speech issue , some reasons being that some staff and moderators are likely involved in certain companies that run sig campaigns and don't want to have to pay a higher cpm, and others likely fear a sharp drop off in new members and traffic to this site. The last item is what allows them to charge higher fees to paid advertisers and they don't want to spoil that even though they could potentially gain more money by forcing certain sig campaigns to by adspace directly with them. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: orsotheysaid on February 17, 2015, 01:53:15 AM how do ad sig campaigns benefit the forum? Well, as far as I know its the only legit way to get bitcoin since faucets are a waste of time. It's normal that some people shitpost a bit sometimes. The guys on sig campaigns are redistributing bitcoin to poor fellows. Specially if the guy is in a country like Indonesia or god knows where, these guys could be getting money way above minimum salary. So for me the sig campaign runners are doing god's work by letting people get small but decent amounts of bitcoin. Not everyone is a great coder or whatever that can offer profesional services in this very competitive world. And most people with regular jobs dont have the time to work part time to get bitcoin or risk their small salaries it.why not just force advertisers to buy ad space from the forum directly? Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: DannyHamilton on February 17, 2015, 01:53:35 AM - snip - if you want a "nice experience" on this forum now you have to either spend most of your time clicking Ignore for every ad-sig poster - snip - Save yourself a lot of clicking. This link should take you to your personal ignore list: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;sa=ignprefs Then just copy and paste the 323 names from my ignore list into your own. When I just looked, I was surprised to find there were only 323 names. I expected it to by more than 1,000. My current ignore list: Code: Decksperiment Voila! A much more pleasant bitcointalk experience. I've also decided today to keep a separate list offline of the people that I have chosen to "unignore" (those who have demonstrated an ability to consistently create worthwhile posts even though they are participating in a sig campaign). That way I won't keep accidentally adding them to my ignore list and having to re-remove them. Note: There are some people on my ignore list for reasons other than sig ad spam. You may want to quickly review the list before adding it to your own to avoid ignoring someone that you recognize as posting stuff that you like to read. Generally you get on my ignore list in one of the following 8 ways:
Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: onemorebtc on February 17, 2015, 02:06:39 AM - snip - if you want a "nice experience" on this forum now you have to either spend most of your time clicking Ignore for every ad-sig poster - snip - Save yourself a lot of clicking. This link should take you to your personal ignore list: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;sa=ignprefs Then just copy and paste the 323 names from my ignore list into your own. When I just looked, I was surprised to find there were only 323 names. I expected it to by more than 1,000. My current ignore list: Code: Decksperiment Voila! A much more pleasant bitcointalk experience. I've also decided today to keep a separate list offline of the people that I have chosen to "unignore" (those who have demonstrated an ability to consistently create worthwhile posts even though they are participating in a sig campaign). That way I won't keep accidentally adding them to my ignore list and having to re-remove them. Note: There are some people on my ignore list for reasons other than sig ad spam. You may want to quickly review the list before adding it to your own to avoid ignoring someone that you recognize as posting stuff that you like to read. Generally you get on my ignore list in one of the following 8 ways:
good list; wondering why my old account flower1024 is not there ;) but... David Latapie? why? Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: DannyHamilton on February 17, 2015, 02:43:54 AM - snip - but... David Latapie? why? Perhaps he has participated in a sig ad campaign? - snip - Generally you get on my ignore list in one of the following 8 ways:
Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CoinCidental on February 17, 2015, 04:36:26 AM I am getting so sick of seeing pointless, rubbish ad-sig posts in every single topic on this forum that I have started this topic just to allow others that have something that might be of any actual interest to others to post in. Rules are: 1. If you have an ad-sig then I will delete your post no matter how "relevant" you think it is (go and post somewhere else - you have plenty of places to do that and I am sick of you guys trying to "defend yourselves"). 2. If you post crap or abuse I'll delete that too. Let's see if it is possible to actually have some enlightened posts on this forum again. this thread is a breath of fresh air ,it makes more sense than the mindless drivel in most of the other threads combined hopefully more people will self moderate threads to get away from this spam problem ,its really turned the forum to shit compared to what it was like a couple of years back Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: Tsquared on February 17, 2015, 06:08:50 AM Reading through this thread feels like being on a different forum. it's really hard to get much value from most threads because it just takes too much time to wade past all the nonsense posts, and some signatures are very distracting.
It seems that people who pay for signature space and posts would get better value if they paid per word instead of per post, or maybe required a minimum number of words per post. I'm starting to see "daily" threads where people are posting stuff like "last drink you had" or "last movie you watched" on a daily basis, and these entire threads are mostly useless, but in reality the people who pay for posts in these threads, and ignored posts, are wasting their money. TT Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: Harry Hood on February 17, 2015, 08:01:13 AM It's ironic that you set up this thread to allow discussion from people that don't have ad-sigs yet you've spent majority of the conversation talking about people that have ad sigs.
Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 17, 2015, 08:08:42 AM It's ironic that you set up this thread to allow discussion from people that don't have ad-sigs yet you've spent majority of the conversation talking about people that have ad sigs. :D Indeed (welcome to bring something more interesting to this quiet corner for discussion). Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: Harry Hood on February 17, 2015, 08:12:54 AM Okay, I'm newer to the forum and still new to bitcoin. What do you find to be the most current developments with bitcoin?
At my first glance it seemed like once the infrastructure exists there's not much enhancement needed, but I'm also not a fool to technology...there's always innovation around the corner. What's being innovated upon in the community today? Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 17, 2015, 08:34:59 AM One of the next big steps is the idea of extending consensus to handle much more sophisticated "smart contracts" (which technologies such as Ethereum and AT are addressing by providing "Turing complete transactions") as although Bitcoin has quite a few neat features (such as M of N sig txs) its Script language was purposely designed not to support that.
(others note we have "moved on" from discussing about "ad sigs" so please don't bother bringing that up again or the post will also be deleted) Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: Harry Hood on February 17, 2015, 05:08:39 PM I think all of that went over my head, guess I have some searching and reading to do around this forum.
What do you think is the most valuable element of the bitcoin technology, infrastructure or idea? If (free society forbid) the altcurrency ends up going down, what's the one thing to keep alive? Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: inBitweTrust on February 17, 2015, 05:24:28 PM What do you think is the most valuable element of the bitcoin technology, infrastructure or idea? If (free society forbid) the altcurrency ends up going down, what's the one thing to keep alive? Decentralized Sovereignty. This is why bitcoin will always be valuable even if a large government attempts to replicate and compete directly with their own cryptocurrency. Okay, I'm newer to the forum and still new to bitcoin. What do you find to be the most current developments with bitcoin? At my first glance it seemed like once the infrastructure exists there's not much enhancement needed, but I'm also not a fool to technology...there's always innovation around the corner. What's being innovated upon in the community today? 0.10.0 was just released with these improvements - https://bitcoin.org/en/release/v0.10.0 0.11 will likely include block pruning allowing people to run a full node with only 1 GB of storage space Other BIPs- https://github.com/bitcoin/bips Very interesting projects being developed/released as well that interact and depend upon bitcoin. Here is a small sample of the most interesting ones to me- https://www.vinumeris.com/lighthouse https://openbazaar.org/ http://impulse.is/ http://www.blockstream.com/ https://www.darkwallet.is/ https://github.com/petertodd/bips/blob/checklocktimeverify/bip-checklocktimeverify.mediawiki Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 17, 2015, 05:25:15 PM The key thing that Bitcoin has brought to us is "decentralised consensus" (sometimes called the "Byzantine Generals problem" or perhaps more commonly the "double spending problem").
Prior to Bitcoin there was basically no solution to the dilemma of trust when each node you are connected to could be dishonest. This was the "genius" that Satoshi brought us (he didn't invent anything else really). The very idea of a blockchain is something that no accountant would ever come up with (as no traditional accounting system has ever worked this way). Other ways of being able to provide such consensus are now being built and tested and although nothing can ever take away from Satoshi's invention I think that other approaches (that don't need so much energy consumption) will likely end up being the future (although I would not be surprised to see Bitcoin remain as "digital gold" for a very long time). The PoS approach is not one that I particularly like but there are other approaches (such as Ripple and such as the new proof that CIYAM plans to unveil soon) that hold promise (it's still not clear what method Ethereum plan to launch with). Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: inBitweTrust on February 17, 2015, 05:50:35 PM (it's still not clear what method Ethereum plan to launch with). They settled upon a Dagger-Hashimoto hybrid PoW optimised for GPU's and ASIC resistant for ver 1, but Vitalik will probably want to switch the algo to some TaPoS variant as soon as possible(perhaps even late 2015). Gavin Wood appears to prefer PoW and Vitalik loves spending a lot of time considering everything besides PoW. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 17, 2015, 05:54:16 PM I think Vitalik is wise to consider other approaches and (once we publish the paper) I think he might be interested to study what CIYAM has come up with.
We'd love to publish it now but unfortunately CIYAM doesn't have the 15M budget of that project so we have to wait until they have committed before we can "show our cards" (but it will be published prior to the publicly announced release of our blockchain software). Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: gogxmagog on February 17, 2015, 09:07:19 PM lol
I had participated in a few sig campaigns for a few months now. The first one ran out and didnt bother informing me. The second one kicked me because I got a 5 day ban for drunkenly posting gibberish... To tell you the truth, I'm happier. The tiny amount of BTC I earned was not worth the relentless searching for something to post. Half the threads in here are obviously started by sig-puppets, maybe 75% (at least) of all posts everywhere are bullshit post-count padding. Frankly, I don't think anyone can read and participate in this level of idiotic posting without sort-of losing his mind a little. Now that I'm not in any sig campaign I actually post about 4 or 5 times a week. If there is action in areas I am actually involved in (I am invested in a few securities) I might post as many as 10 times a week. It doesn't go near the 50+ post weekly required for some of the better paying sig campaigns. I go outside, breath fresh air, feel the sun on my face. Its magnificent to be free! That said, there is no reason that a sig campaign poster can't find something at least remotely interesting, helpful, or constructive to say. They should do everyone a service and hang out in the n00b section and just look for questions that they can answer. Only problem is-most sig-retards are total n00bs themselves. Prolly gold-farm slaves who make 3 cents a day posting across multiple accounts and work out of some slum in india. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: hikedoon on February 18, 2015, 01:00:56 AM I read an article about cutting down sock-puppet account's and was wondering if this idea would work for this forum CIYAM?
It seems a good idea to me but i'm a computer illiterate. Another non-transactional application of Bitcoin is being developed by Joe Cascio, a semi-retired software engineer living in Connecticut. Cascio calls his innovation "collateralized identity," which he initially developed to address the problem of sockpuppetry on online forums. Because creating new accounts on online services is often free and easy, one individual can conjure up many different identities and use them to harass, spam, or otherwise annoy other users. Suspending sockpuppet accounts does little to address the problem because a malicious user will simply create new ones in their place. Online forums have tried to defeat sockpuppetry by requiring account holders to use their real identities or by allowing pseudonymous usernames but charging a membership fee to deter one person from creating more than one account. But Cascio has developed a system allowing users to log into websites pseudonymously using Bitcoin addresses. What this means is that a website owner can restrict who can create an account based on the user's current Bitcoin balance, or even her balance history. For example, a site might require that new users must have at least 30 days of a continuous balance of the Bitcoin equivalent of $100 associated with the address he is using for his ID. That $100 is not a membership fee you have to pay, only an average balance one has to carry for each account. That makes multiple accounts a very expensive proposition for malicious users, while remaining inexpensive for average users. Only because Bitcoin's ledger is public can the site verify that a user does indeed meet its collateral requirements. "The fact that you can observe the history of a Bitcoin address is important because it means that you can't play Three Card Monte with IDs," says Cascio. Otherwise, a malicious user might simply move money around to different Bitcoin addresses before creating new accounts. While Cascio only intended to address the sockpuppet issue, he has since discovered that his invention essentially leverages Bitcoin to create pseudonymous identities tied to something akin to publicly verifiable "credit histories"--something that has potential implications far beyond blocking Internet jerks. This is the link to the article. http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Bitcoin%3A+more+than+money%3A+the+digital+protocol+promises+to+change...-a0374098870 Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: Kakmakr on February 18, 2015, 06:05:31 AM So you just suggested to exclude poor people from joining forums on the internet? ^Frown^
That is NOT the way to solve this problem. Set down strict rules for spamming on signature campaigns and be done with it. The biggest problem now is, people who host these signature campaigns, set high minimum post limits and members post rubbish to adhere to it. Or if you really feel strongly about this, make a donation to this attempt to stop spam : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=918799.0 Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: inBitweTrust on February 18, 2015, 12:44:38 PM Good video with Peter Wuille discussing some recent changes in .10.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asC_kVJ6sig Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: Kakmakr on February 18, 2015, 01:14:34 PM So you just suggested to exclude poor people from joining forums on the internet? ^Frown^ That is NOT the way to solve this problem. What an odd way of thinking. There is no prerequisite which forces poor people to promote gambling, cloud mining ponzis, and other paid sig campaigns. Economically disadvantaged people are humans that should be respected and thus it is degrading for you to ignore their free agency and responsibility that follows. You are speaking to the wrong person here, I am against excluding poor people from public forums. There seems to be a respect problem around here, towards disadvantaged people, and it's not coming from me. lol That said, there is no reason that a sig campaign poster can't find something at least remotely interesting, helpful, or constructive to say. They should do everyone a service and hang out in the n00b section and just look for questions that they can answer. Only problem is-most sig-retards are total n00bs themselves. Prolly gold-farm slaves who make 3 cents a day posting across multiple accounts and work out of some slum in india. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, and I do respect that but where do you draw the line? Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 18, 2015, 01:24:23 PM The fact that I have to keep deleting posts from people with ad-sigs when the topic clearly tells them "they are not welcome here" just shows how bad this forum has become.
The *vast majority* of people using this forum now are ad sig posters with zero respect for any rules or anyone. They just post to earn some tiny amount of money to place "shit in the road". Imagine if people were being paid to literally shit in the streets (forming the ad as a "shit sig") - somehow I don't think the majority would say "oh well - they have to earn a living somehow so just try and ignore all the shit". :D Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: DannyHamilton on February 18, 2015, 01:29:31 PM I thought that we:
Quote have 'moved on' from discussing about 'ad sigs' And that we should not: Quote bother bringing that up again or the post will also be deleted It seems there are several posts from the past 29 hours that need to be deleted. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 18, 2015, 01:35:46 PM I thought we had too - but *sigh* it seems most people want to discuss that (which is I guess perhaps a sign of the frustration people now have with this forum).
So I decided to let people "vent" a bit more but you would be most welcome to bring up something more interesting though (if it gets too boring I'll just lock it as I do now for most of my topics that end up going in circles). BTW although I do appreciate your ignore list I find ignores are not so great as I still end up seeing the poster's avatar and I think the topics still get bumped don't they? Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: Kakmakr on February 18, 2015, 01:39:29 PM I read an article about cutting down sock-puppet account's and was wondering if this idea would work for this forum CIYAM? I was refering to this suggestion. No worries Danny these post will be deleted, like my other where I raised my concerns.It seems a good idea to me but i'm a computer illiterate. Another non-transactional application of Bitcoin is being developed by Joe Cascio, a semi-retired software engineer living in Connecticut. Cascio calls his innovation "collateralized identity," which he initially developed to address the problem of sockpuppetry on online forums. Because creating new accounts on online services is often free and easy, one individual can conjure up many different identities and use them to harass, spam, or otherwise annoy other users. Suspending sockpuppet accounts does little to address the problem because a malicious user will simply create new ones in their place. Online forums have tried to defeat sockpuppetry by requiring account holders to use their real identities or by allowing pseudonymous usernames but charging a membership fee to deter one person from creating more than one account. But Cascio has developed a system allowing users to log into websites pseudonymously using Bitcoin addresses. What this means is that a website owner can restrict who can create an account based on the user's current Bitcoin balance, or even her balance history. For example, a site might require that new users must have at least 30 days of a continuous balance of the Bitcoin equivalent of $100 associated with the address he is using for his ID. That $100 is not a membership fee you have to pay, only an average balance one has to carry for each account. That makes multiple accounts a very expensive proposition for malicious users, while remaining inexpensive for average users. Only because Bitcoin's ledger is public can the site verify that a user does indeed meet its collateral requirements. "The fact that you can observe the history of a Bitcoin address is important because it means that you can't play Three Card Monte with IDs," says Cascio. Otherwise, a malicious user might simply move money around to different Bitcoin addresses before creating new accounts. While Cascio only intended to address the sockpuppet issue, he has since discovered that his invention essentially leverages Bitcoin to create pseudonymous identities tied to something akin to publicly verifiable "credit histories"--something that has potential implications far beyond blocking Internet jerks. This is the link to the article. http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Bitcoin%3A+more+than+money%3A+the+digital+protocol+promises+to+change...-a0374098870 Looks like newer users opinions do not count, even if they have no sig campaign. ^frown^ Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 18, 2015, 01:43:53 PM I was refering to this suggestion. Sorry - I had meant to respond to that earlier but got distracted and then forgot all about it. Actually I think it has some merit although perhaps it would be best to only apply to certain forum boards. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: DannyHamilton on February 18, 2015, 02:02:45 PM - snip - BTW although I do appreciate your ignore list I find ignores are not so great as I still end up seeing the poster's avatar and I think the topics still get bumped don't they? You are correct that posts from ignored individuals do still bump threads (unfortunately), but I don't see any of the avatars and I only see the content of their posts if someone else quotes them. This makes it very fast and easy to scan the tail end of a bumped thread and move on if all of the recent posters are ignored. Otherwise I'd need to scan through the content of each post just to realize that I'm spending a lot of time attempting to make sense of nonsense. It really has made a huge difference in the usability and value that I get from the forum. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 18, 2015, 02:05:07 PM It really has made a huge difference in the usability and value that I get from the forum. I am certainly going to consider it (up until now I only have only ever put a few people on ignore due to personal attacks that just got a bit too annoying and I think those people were either expelled from the forum or left under a cloud anyway now). Also don't you still see "this person is currently being ignored" or the like? In my own forum implementation you don't see their post at all (not sure about the bumping though - would have to check my code but I think I did also handle that from memory). Thus people you ignore in CIYAM Open really just disappear (apart from quotes of course). Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: DannyHamilton on February 18, 2015, 02:28:19 PM I'm trying to move on to other topics, but since you've asked . . .
- snip - Also don't you still see "this person is currently being ignored" or the like? Here's what I see: https://i.imgur.com/TFbsnSx.png After about 3 days of seeing that pattern my brain was trained to tune it out and I barely even notice it. However, if a response that someone else posts gives the impression that I've just missed something worth reading, it's just a quick click of the "show/hide" link on the right to see what was said. And if I feel that the post demonstrates that the user is a valuable contributor to the discussion after all, a quick click of the "Unignore" link on the left brings them back. This allows me to blanket ignore everyone with a sig ad, and then unignore without a lot of effort once they've proven themselves. When I only had 2 or 3 sig ad users unignored, it was pretty easy to recognize the userID and avoid re-ignoring them accidentally. More recently I'm probably closer to a dozen sig ad users that I've un-ignored. I've occasionally re-ignored some of them because I saw the sig ad and reflexively clicked the ignore without recognizing that they were intentionally unignored. That's why I've decided to create my own list offline of sig ad users I've chosen to unignore. I can then occasionally compare that list to my ignore list to make sure that I haven't accidentally re-ignored someone that I didn't intend to. You are right though, this does add some additional effort on my part to use the forum. I find that the minimal effort that I'm making is worth the vast improvement in my experience using the site. If the forum would create some tools that would make this process simper or unnecessary, I'd be very happy. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 18, 2015, 02:31:51 PM I'm trying to move on to other topics, but since you've asked . . . Thanks for your patience (as ever). It is now approaching Chinese New Year and the fireworks are steadily building up outside. I'll see if I can post a photo here when it "goes off" at midnight. :) Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: inBitweTrust on February 18, 2015, 02:35:19 PM You are correct that posts from ignored individuals do still bump threads (unfortunately), but I don't see any of the avatars and I only see the content of their posts if someone else quotes them. This is why a moderated thread like this one offers a few advantages above simply having a large ignore list. Quotes will expose the garbage coming from those being ignored and there are always new accounts being created that need to be added to the ignore list. From reviewing your list I see it is good but is a bit overzealous because - 1) I don't want to ignore users with sig campaigns that may remove them in the future(sometimes politely telling them that their sig campaign promotes a ponzi actually is effective in motivating them to drop it or they simply reform on their own) 2) Their are a few trolls on here who do occasionally write some good posts 3) I don't care if someone is mean, aggressive, or a general asshole as long as the content of their post has value. Sometimes it is good to hear aggressive criticism from a jerk. Cruelty and offensive language can be annoying but won't add someone to my list in itself. Here is my current ignore list for anyone interested: Code: kwukduck Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 18, 2015, 02:49:25 PM Here is a shot I just took from my apartment window (was a little scary actually).
http://ciyam.org/2015_CNY.jpg Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: onemorebtc on February 18, 2015, 03:08:08 PM Here is a shot I just took from my apartment window (was a little scary actually). http://ciyam.org/2015_CNY.jpg nice ;) wish you a good time (too bad other houses are reflected in the window - but please keep it closed and stay safe - we need you ;p) Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 18, 2015, 03:11:59 PM Actually those aren't reflections (I opened the window).
It was so loud and close that I couldn't hold the camera without shaking a bit. :D (the building you see is part of the same complex and only around 50 metres away the fireworks are being set off between the buildings by residents of the complex) Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: Harry Hood on February 19, 2015, 06:45:34 PM You are speaking to the wrong person here, I am against excluding poor people from public forums. There seems to be a respect problem around here, towards disadvantaged people, and it's not coming from me. Why do you assume that "poor people" will be excluded from this thread or are forced to promote sig campaigns (Most of which promote either ponzi's or gambling sites)? Being wealthy or poor does not remove your agency or responsibility and thus your comment is a non sequitur. You are being extremely insulting to certain economic classes insinuating they will be excluded from this thread because they all need to peddle shit for a few satoshis. Many poor people are hard workers and with good ethical principles that actively choose to avoid sig campaigns. InBit, you're completely missing the point of Kakmakr's comment. S/he was commenting on someone else's suggestion that forum users would need to keep a $100 balance of bitcoin in a wallet to be allowed to use this forum. Keeping that balance sitting idle in a BTC wallet could prevent poor people from participating in the forum, which would be an awful discrimination. Excluding poor people from access to information by requiring wealth minimums goes against all the spirit of bitcoin. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 19, 2015, 06:47:44 PM Excluding poor people from access to information by requiring wealth minimums goes against all the spirit of bitcoin. I do agree - but perhaps limiting access to certain boards according to either such a deposit (or proven worth in posting) could make the experience better for those that aren't just here to make a few cents from pointless posts. (so the newbie boards could allow all the rubbish you want) But perhaps what you have not *got* is that "trying to be nice to poor people" doesn't mean you should let them "shit in your lounge" (and in fact most poor people have more pride than that anyway so we aren't really talking about poor people here). Maybe unlike a lot of people here I have actually *met* poor people in remote Chinese villages and they behave in a much more respectful manner than most people in general posting in this forum do (they have a thing called "pride" which ad-sig posters seem to lack altogether). So "allowing people to post shit" in the name of "being nice to poor people" is actually a very arrogant concept created by rich people that don't actually understand much about "poor people" at all (perhaps their only experience is *beggars* in a city). Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: Harry Hood on February 19, 2015, 06:56:30 PM Excluding poor people from access to information by requiring wealth minimums goes against all the spirit of bitcoin. I do agree - but perhaps limiting access to certain boards according to either such a deposit (or proven worth in posting) could make the experience better for those that aren't just here to make a few cents from pointless posts. (so the newbie boards could allow all the rubbish you want) Perhaps what you have not *got* is that "trying to be nice to poor people" doesn't mean you should let them "shit in your lounge" (and in fact most poor people have more pride than that anyway so we aren't really talking about poor people here). CIYAM, this is a good point. The technical and project based boards don't need the naively curious posts, especially when answers one newbie seeks can be found through Google search rather than slowing down the conversation for everyone else. I'm a capitalist, I agree with your "shit in the road" analogy, however I'll argue that we're penalizing the masses for the errors, 'shitting' so to speak of a few. (I don't expect to turn you with my argument, by the way.) The suggestion that's being rebutted, to require forum users maintain a balance is not related to the ad sig issue. The person was suggesting access to the forum only be allowed if one holds a minimum balance, I disagree with that on every level. Finally, it's really the fault of the ad sig campaigns to police their campaign. They need to make good on the threats that they won't pay for non-constructive posts. Non payment will be as effective as payment is for the clutter. I'll now bid you farewell because I'm feeling compelled to enter the dark side. I'm a capitalist, I'm attracted to the opportunity to earn some coin and in the process spread the bitcoin economy further. I'll likely be joining a campaign soon, which will have you deleting my post. It's been a fun conversation and I'll be carrying forward the principle to only make comments that contribute to conversation. I'd hate to lose the privilege to participate on this forum. Happy New Year! Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 19, 2015, 07:00:47 PM If the ad sigs could "pick up their game" then we'd have nothing to discuss here but I am not seeing that (the posts just get worse and worse).
I am not an anti-capitalist (perhaps I lean a bit towards libertarian but I don't have much in the way of a political bias as I think all such systems have problems) but what I do know is that if you reward people for posting crap then they will post crap. It is hard to come up with the right way to make reward systems work - I am not against the concept but am not happy with the simplistic approach we see here that has led to the vast majority of rubbish posts I have been complaining about (and I am not the only one). Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: Harry Hood on February 19, 2015, 07:02:32 PM If the ad sigs could "pick up their game" then we'd have nothing to discuss here but I am not seeing that (the posts just get worse and worse). I am not an anti-capitalist (perhaps I lean a bit towards libertarian but I don't have much in the way of political bias as I think all such systems have problems) but what I do know is that if you reward people for posting crap then they will post crap. Yeah, how do they say "follow the dollar"? Money is a great motivator for better and worse. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: inBitweTrust on February 19, 2015, 07:11:42 PM InBit, you're completely missing the point of Kakmakr's comment. S/he was commenting on someone else's suggestion that forum users would need to keep a $100 balance of bitcoin in a wallet to be allowed to use this forum. Keeping that balance sitting idle in a BTC wallet could prevent poor people from participating in the forum, which would be an awful discrimination. Excluding poor people from access to information by requiring wealth minimums goes against all the spirit of bitcoin. Correct, the post wasn't clear but I think you are right so I deleted my posts. I apologize Kakmakr for reading too much into your comments. Yeah, how do they say "follow the dollar"? Money is a great motivator for better and worse. I am an anarcho-cap so have nothing against making profits. Conscious comsumerism exists within capitalism and if the sig campaigns, moderators, and certain users cannot raise their standards themselves we will find market based solutions to meet our own needs. This thread is one solution to this problem, another one would be leaving this forum to another one that has different standards or methods of enforcing spam, trolls, and shill accounts. Hopefully, it won't come down to that but some of us are so fed up that we are willing to do what is necessary to raise the discourse. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 19, 2015, 07:15:35 PM In all truth this topic was an experiment to see how much better the quality of posting can be without the usual trolling and ad-sig posts.
Whilst not maybe perfect I do think it has ended up being a bit less *annoying* than most other topics have ended up becoming recently after several pages (as most have been polite to one another even if in disagreement which is the way I think it should be). Of course I know that being a self-moderated topic the burden is on me to not overly "take control" and that is not an easy thing to do (so self-moderated topics are not necessarily the best mechanism) but a "free-for-all with ad-sigs" just ends up being something that no-one with any intellect has time for (which is partly why I tried this as I am now bored with most topics on this forum). Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: onemorebtc on February 19, 2015, 07:20:42 PM In all truth this topic was an experiment to see how much better the quality of posting can be without the usual trolling and ad-sig posts. Whilst not maybe perfect I do think it has ended up being a bit less *annoying* than most other topics have ended up becoming recently after several pages (as most have been polite to one another even if in disagreement which is the way I think it should be). Of course I know that being a self-moderated topic the burden is on me to not overly "take control" and that is not an easy thing to do (so self-moderated topics are not necessarily the best mechanism) but a "free-for-all with ad-sigs" just ends up being something that no-one with any intellect has time for (which is partly why I tried this as I am now bored with most topics on this forum). just out of curiosity: did you delete posts? (i try to avoid self-moderatored topics and i never every ignore anybody: i think self-censorship is worse than gov-cencorship) edit: i share your opinion about "poor people". but i would not call it pride: they just seem to understand that its easier to live together than against each other - most of my friends are poor (i am not rich either...but i have enough to live comfortably) Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 19, 2015, 07:28:09 PM just out of curiosity: did you delete posts? Yes - many of the posts came from people that were "asked explicitly not to post" and that is part of the very problem I was bringing up. People with any respect don't go into a church and graffiti do they? But people in this forum will do that (they have no respect at all for anyone). Quite a few were very angry at me for even creating a single topic that didn't allow them to post in (so they think it is their *right* to post shit in every single topic in the forum). As stated - I have actually met with *real poor people* (who don't even have internet) and they are not the nasty, childish sort of people you find here (so the posters here are not poor people at all - just people wanting to make money by any means they can by trying to *pretend* they are the poor). Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: StevenS on February 19, 2015, 07:35:57 PM (there is no option to "hide all posts by ad-sig posters" which would be something I'd gladly use if it were available). How could a forum algorithm determine if a signature is an ad-sig?Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 19, 2015, 07:37:03 PM How could a forum algorithm determine if a signature is an ad-sig? It wouldn't be that hard - as ad sigs tend to have a pretty "exact format" (I have read their posts). But at the same time it wouldn't need to be algorithmically determined - it could be judged according to reports. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 19, 2015, 07:40:15 PM Code: Total time logged in: 200 days, 12 minutes. Jesus - I have spent that much of my time on this forum? Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: onemorebtc on February 19, 2015, 07:48:57 PM As stated - I have actually met with *real poor people* (who don't even have internet) and they are not the nasty, childish sort of people you find here (so the posters here are not poor people at all - just people wanting to make money by any means they can by trying to *pretend* they are the poor). i prefer the amount of warm food as an indicator for poorness - luckily i am a good cook ;) i never saw people behaving like here in reallife (this includes myself btw - sometimes the horses are going through with me (german saying - not really translateable for my sucky english skills)) Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 19, 2015, 07:51:17 PM I have seen people here that use "makeup and clothing" to pretend they are 60+ years old (when they are only maybe 30) in order to "beg".
You only find out if a security person spots them and chases them - suddenly you see a supposedly 60+ old woman (who was trembling in front of you looking very unsteady on her feet) run faster than a 30yo man! :D (seriously - I have seen that) The real *country-side* Chinese would despise such people as honesty is actually a very important trait for them. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: onemorebtc on February 19, 2015, 07:55:14 PM I have seen people here that use "makeup and clothing" to pretend they are 60+ years old (when they are only maybe 30) in order to "beg". You only find out if a security person spots them and chases them - suddenly you see a supposedly 60+ old woman run faster than a 30yo man! :D (seriously - I have seen that) china is way poorer than germany i guess. its funny and sad at the same time... but: to change that anybody needs to do a little. but now we are really off topic ;) i'll leave this to be on topic again: http://explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/b/b1/constructive.png Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 19, 2015, 08:00:07 PM If only we did see decent posts from the ad-siggers then there would be no need for this topic at all.
It is a pity the ad-sig sponsors don't realise what they have done - now as soon as I see any post with a bright shiny "ad sig" I just ignore it without even reading it (as I know that at least 90% of the time it is going to be just a crap post). So any chance of me ever paying attention to one single post has now gone (and in fact now I delete any ad-sig post in my self-moderated topics as a protest - if they actually have anything reasonable to say then they should create a new account and post it using that instead). So to those ad-siggers who complain I won't let you post - you can - just create a new account without your ad-sig (oh yes I forgot that is the whole reason you post didn't I). Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: inBitweTrust on February 19, 2015, 08:01:38 PM http://slashdot.org is a tech forum with a decent solution of rating/classifying the quality of posts and earning "karma" for contributions of value and sorting through the garbage . Reading a thread with a 3 and above rating usually is fairly enjoyable. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: CIYAM on February 19, 2015, 08:03:35 PM And this might be end up being the reason why people end up moving from this forum to find a better place to post (I know I am getting tired of having to monitor my topics like a hawk and constantly just unwatch topics due to the drift towards pointless postings).
Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: inBitweTrust on February 19, 2015, 08:10:22 PM And this might be end up being the reason why people end up moving from this forum to find a better place to post. I'm still tempted to start creating threads that are all self moderated per topic from here on out, the thing that is keeping me from doing so is the time involved in watching those threads and the fact that it may scare users off from appearing that it was full of censorship because that is the reaction I have when I see a self moderated topic. somewhat of a shame the new forum software isn't going to include any of the solutions slashdot has for decentrally moderating a topic -- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bHlm4NQkSzaBTT5tLIqQBmV92wSsbdOX5r-dRR9Dgg0/edit Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: 2112 on February 19, 2015, 08:12:22 PM i prefer the amount of warm food as an indicator for poorness - luckily i am a good cook ;) Can you elaborate? Lots of warm food is poor or rich? I can't understand.Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: buyandhold on February 19, 2015, 08:17:20 PM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM8mKMtEg7M from 2:07
Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: onemorebtc on February 19, 2015, 08:19:17 PM i prefer the amount of warm food as an indicator for poorness - luckily i am a good cook ;) Can you elaborate? Lots of warm food is poor or rich? I can't understand.the poor people i spoke of dont have enough money and suffer mentally illnesses so they are not able to cook or buy food to cook - its just something i do to help. in germany anybody can have enough money to get internet, tv, an apartment and something to eat - but some people (which are considered mentally ill by society) are not able to get it or use it the right way Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: 2112 on February 19, 2015, 08:27:47 PM the poor people i spoke of dont have enough money and suffer mentally illnesses so they are not able to cook or buy food to cook - its just something i do to help. OK, thanks for the clarification. I believe your observation must be specific to Germany or maybe broader to the Western Europe.in germany anybody can have enough money to get internet, tv, an apartment and something to eat - but some people (which are considered mentally ill by society) are not able to get it or use it the right way In some Asian communities (both in Asia itself and expatriates in other continents) there is an opposite correlation: poor people tend to spend inordinate amount of time and energy&fuel to elaborately cook their ethnic food, to the detriment of their children who are drafted to help. On the other hand reasonably well-off people tend to use quick-food or self-bagged cold lunches to be able to effectively participate in economy and education. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: juju on February 19, 2015, 08:28:08 PM And this might be end up being the reason why people end up moving from this forum to find a better place to post (I know I am getting tired of having to monitor my topics like a hawk and constantly just unwatch topics due to the drift towards pointless postings). I have to agree with your intent on creating this thread, when I first started reading this forum I just assumed people were trying to market new websites and technologies they were creating by having a website in their signature. After sometime on the forum you start to learn that the majority of the signatures linked to Ponzi/Gambling/pay per post and were not really users trying to "share" their technology. For along while I had a Bitcoin news and price aggregation website I made one weekend in my signature. I decided to remove this link to my website after reading a similar thread you made on the Meta forum. Not because my website was a Ponzi or pay per post scheme, but because I wouldn't want anyone to think that's what was created as in the end. I actually noticed a few days ago I posted a thread about some new technology, a few people chimed in and essentially left no content/discussion. Perhaps they legitimately did-int understand the concept and wanted me to elaborate but their posts just seemed contrived. I think theymos, and the other admins should strongly consider doing what was done with avatars. Save signatures as legacy for existing users and Add the option to remove signature. Remove the ability for anyone to add/edit signatures, and one day this issue will lessen/go away. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: onemorebtc on February 19, 2015, 08:48:59 PM the poor people i spoke of dont have enough money and suffer mentally illnesses so they are not able to cook or buy food to cook - its just something i do to help. OK, thanks for the clarification. I believe your observation must be specific to Germany or maybe broader to the Western Europe.in germany anybody can have enough money to get internet, tv, an apartment and something to eat - but some people (which are considered mentally ill by society) are not able to get it or use it the right way In some Asian communities (both in Asia itself and expatriates in other continents) there is an opposite correlation: poor people tend to spend inordinate amount of time and energy&fuel to elaborately cook their ethnic food, to the detriment of their children who are drafted to help. On the other hand reasonably well-off people tend to use quick-food or self-bagged cold lunches to be able to effectively participate in economy and education. maybe you'll find this interesting: http://www.vox.com/2014/7/6/5874499/map-heres-how-much-every-country-spends-on-food. indeed: europe does not spend much of their income in food (i do btw... but i am crazy :D) Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: Mitchell on March 02, 2015, 10:00:39 AM I hope it's okay if I join this thread. I have been a paid signature whore in the past, but I dropped it this month because I could no longer justify to be part of a group of users that spam borderline on-topic crap everywhere and that have shitloads of accounts. Yes, I do have a signature for Blocktrail, but it's not paid and I only have it to support a buddy of mine (Tjopper).
Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: inBitweTrust on March 02, 2015, 12:03:40 PM Everything is getting worse. I have given up and am automatically adding everyone with a paid signature campaign to my ignore list.
Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: runpaint on March 04, 2015, 04:24:36 PM Hi CIYAM, I've seen several of your posts around the forum, and I'm excited about AT. Also, I have always been impressed by your stylish sweater.
But doesn't your signature have an ad for CIYAM in it? Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: DannyHamilton on March 04, 2015, 05:05:23 PM - snip - But doesn't your signature have an ad for CIYAM in it? - snip - no - my sig is not part of any ad-sig sponsor campaign (obviously as no-one else has it in their sig and the only links are to GPG and a Bitcoin address). Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: runpaint on March 04, 2015, 05:23:09 PM Well I was actually kidding, but don't let that stop you from being a humourless bastard.
And since 3 of your last 4 posts were directed at me, I'd like to thank you for all the attention. It makes me feel like a valued member of the community. I think we all have a lot in common, and it's a beautiful thing when we can get together like this and be ourselves. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: DannyHamilton on March 04, 2015, 05:58:32 PM Well I was actually kidding, but don't let that stop you from being a humourless bastard. I was aware that you were kidding. Apparently you missed the humor in my response. And since 3 of your last 4 posts were directed at me, That's how conversations work. People post responses to the things that other people post. I'd like to thank you for all the attention. It makes me feel like a valued member of the community. You're welcome. I think we all have a lot in common, and it's a beautiful thing when we can get together like this and be ourselves. I agree. Title: Re: The no ad-sigs posters allowed topic - come and not be annoyed by rubbish posts Post by: runpaint on March 04, 2015, 06:36:01 PM Well I was actually kidding, but don't let that stop you from being a humourless bastard. I was aware that you were kidding. Apparently you missed the humor in my response. I haven't stopped laughing yet, which is why I responded in turn with even more hilarity |
