Bitcoin Forum

Please make the trust system for business users only, if there was no business, abusers get banned.

LOL. The trust system is not moderated, and I can say with a good amount of certainty that it is not going to be moderated in the new forum either.

If you had to actually do business with someone in order to leave them trust then it would be impossible to stop someone from scamming in the first place

Your missing the point. This system (trust) is clearly, and by admission of many, not just used to help people decide if folks are trustworthy, but to tarnish the reputation of people who simply do not do business online, and those receiving this abuse, if they ever wanted to do business here, they would be put off doing business with the ENTIRE bitcointalk community, for not a lot of folks know who is who really, do they..?

Ok, I volunteer to be the moderator for the trust system, and I'll have one rule.. if someone is slandered using the trust system, and there is clearly no business intention viewable by the public, then those doing the neg repping will be banned outright.

Simple.

This will hopefully clean up a bit of the reputation bitcointalk has thanks to scammers and abusers.

Maybe even get more to TRUST bitcoin.

Edit: And more importantly, bitcointalk user's. ;)

The trust system is to help someone decide if they are trustworthy or not. If you exhibit scam like behavior then you should expect to get negative trust and have your reputation ruined. If you do have negative trust then people will likely take additional precautions when dealing with you, making it more difficult for you to scam.
There is not a shortage of people who are willing to moderate the forum. There is the concern about moderation abuse of the trust system.

As I mentioned above, if you must do business with someone in order to leave a trust rating then it will be impossible to stop someone from scamming (like yourself) in the first place.

Point 1: I know how the trust system here, and many places work, this site just need's an upgrade.. So it's ok for me to give neg rep to EVERY member on bitcointalk, with link's to the police cro db, just for good measure? Because then no-one would do business here, can you see how even attempting to create a RELIABLE trust system is being shot down so far? How many folks have you neg rep'd, whilst there was no actual business or transactions being considered?

Point 2:  There is the concern about moderation abuse of the trust system. <- yeah? so give that job to me, then no-one need be concerned, if they are genuine.

Abusers of the trust system are WORSE than scammers.. they get away with it and are STILL allowed to trade, whilst scaring of lesser trusted members who just may be the richest folk in town.

If you gave everyone the exact same trust rating then they would likely be removed for being spam. This is one exception to the no trust moderation policy.
I don't think you understand the problem with moderating trust. If you were to moderate it then you would be biased. We obviously do not want a scammer moderating trust left by people.
People with negative trust are still able to trade. If you are not a scammer then you can trade honestly and build your reputation so that you can prove that the negative trust ratings you received are unjust

You want to moderate the trust system, and you don't even know what slander means?   ::)

1: Dunno where you came up with that, trust would be down to those doing the trusting, was there business being considered? btc/monetary exchange's being discussed? If NOT, why accuse someone of being untrustworthy because you had a falling out over pub banter? I'll use the user the joint as an example.. dis-trusting me because I chose not to answer many of his posts, then, by his own admission, abused the trust system. I'm not sore about this, but it did make me bring up this thread. Then there's the vod character, again, another user trying to FORCE his way against someone not interested, tada.. abuse again.. was there a transaction in this case? Well, even I did say I would pay x-amount for.. did he provide the product? NO. In the end, I get the neg-rep, because I would'nt deposit money in escrow first.. where would he deposit his address if I dont trust escrow? I would rather he deposited it in something I trust, but since I dont do business onnline, do I deserve the neg rep? Clearly not, for he clearly went on the offensive bringing more members into the argument, me, I held my ground, for I was NOT in the wrong, for there is NO trustworthy person I know of (yet) in the bitcoin community.. am I biased? No, and old enough not to be, not only that, but as will become clearer in shorter time than the new site, I am an excellent problem solver, better than most. Did you see how I dug in until I found the truth in the scientific proof of god thread? Do you have that patience, to get to the truth?

2: Your suggesting over and over I'm a scammer, based on what, a couple of clearly trust abusing members? Have fun..

3: Obviously, but why should ANYONE have to do that, if they dont conduct business? (hence making trust for business/deals)

How much will that cost the site in reputation alone? How much has it cost it already?

If your speaking to me vod, your still on perm ignore..

Here's hoping the main admin pays attention here..

I agree.  Last thing we need is an uneducated brainwashed liar with any kind of power!

Tum ti Tum.. and if I were a mod for the trust system, I would make my reasons public, maybe even have a vote/poll for my decisions.. I'm pretty sure vod is at it again, but we all have eye's to see.. ;) and scum to get rid of..

I do notice the only time you post that you're ignoring me is when I address something to you.   :D

If I post something in one of your threads to another person, SOMEHOW you know it's not about you and you ignore it. 

I doubt anyone respects you enough to give you a mod position.  Your arguments with baddecker show your state of mind.

You have no idea how close the police are now dude, final request for action against you and oyo has been received by admin, not threatening, but stating my intended actions of police involvement.. your clearly that dumb you dont know that when your not logged in, ignore does'nt work.. get ready for the police homeboy, cause tomorrow this goes to the EU court's, for your stalking/trolling. Lets see bitcointalk avoid the police when they allow a paedophile to stalk/troll/harass ie, cyberbully other members, and do nothing about it. EU law dickhead..

Not sorry if I keep you on  ignore, but watch the attitude of admins change later today.. cya..

There will not be a point where the trust system is moderated in any way, theres no point to having it if someone can moderate it. Just because someone leaves someone negative feedback, doesn't mean it effects the person with the negative feedback against them in any way. If you left negative feedback for everyone for no reason, people would just disregard it. If Vod left me negative feedback for having the letter Q in my name, people would disregard it, and trust Vod's feedback of others even less. If I left Vod feedback for having the name Vod, my feedback would be worthless and people would no longer trust me. The point being, the trust system isn't a definitive means of judging trustworthiness, and no one should take the green/red letters and numbers with much value until they read the specifics for why those points were given.

I dont think the current system is perfect, and sure modifications will be made as progressive ideas for improving it are made, but moderating it is not one of them. Limiting who can or can't leave feedback is also a feature that will not be added at any point.

Yes, that's ok. Because then everyone will exclude you from their trust lists for posting useless feedback. Your arguments are horrible. Your understanding of the trust system is flawed. Your supposed fix (Hey, give me absolute power!) is laughable. And you derailing your own thread to argue with Vod is beyond silly.

You also might want to evaluate if some/all of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandiose_delusions#Symptoms apply to you. From just reading your posts in this thread I get the feeling that you have a strongly inflated ego.

PS.
Sorry for the ad hominem, but I genuinely think you might benefit from some self-evaluation.

It would be useless for business owners only. Meanwhile, you'd have people still selling stuff all around the forum, new altcoin IPOs to be made, and more ponzis.

At another point, some legitimate person needs to be able to build their own reputation and launch a service later on which they will use the trust they gained.

Let's make a real example, for understand better what is the real purpose of the trust system:

I received a negative trust from Quickseller (and I accept it, no problem) but it doesn't mean I am a scammer or something like that. If you read :

"Refused to take personal responsibility when he messed up an transaction he was handling escrow for. The situation resolved itself because of a policy exception by a forum administrator.

He may be a honest person however should not be trusted to hold funds for others nor to handle any kind of escrow"

That's true at 99%, because first I refused to take my personal responsabilty but at the end I "recovered" the forum account and all the situation turn back (with the help of  the community). I have made a mistake (didn't change the email) and someone screwed up me (and I "screwed up" the two parts , moreia (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=147832) and lihuajkl (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=178911)).

---

At the end I want to say, that the trust system is not only for a business purpose but for a lot of things.

So by reading the comments of the admit, the trust system is meaningless? So why have a trust system in the first place as all just love abusing the trust of a person by leaving them negative feedback. People will just start putting false claims and leave everyone negative feedback for no reason. It just looks nonsensical to me to have a trust system when nobody has any respect for it and consider it a JOKE.

This is why I offer myself as moderator of the trust system, because I would not stand for crap, and cannot be biased, if I know NO-ONE here, and will not do business here, due to this trust business model, I know how to clean it up, please show your support, and give me the moderator position as volunteer..

If I can find out that VOD/OYO arte two in the same, face abuse for at least 6 months after both their denial's, is'nt this evidence that I can in fact get to the truth?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10800982#msg10800982

Is'nt this what we want, a decent moderator know one can bribe?

It isn't.


You shouldn't judge a person because of trust feedback. You should look the reference or look more about it.


It is already happening. Check scam-busters profiles such as Vod.


First look more about the matter and then make a feedback here. There are many impersonators here. It is hard to tell who is impersonating and who is not.

Not as hard as you think, for me ;)

Re:
It is already happening. Check scam-busters profiles such as Vod.

So what happens when the scam buster is proven to be busted? NOTHING. This is why bitcointalk has a bad reputation worldwide, for allowing this kind of scammer to continue for how many years? By denying scammers access to the site, the reputation just might go back up, no? If not, what's the point of a new website with same address/name?

That's precisely why trust reviews are left before the scammers scam, after there are strong suspicious that they will: to deny scammers access to bitcointalk and improve its reputation. Well not exactly deny them access but to encourage other people to deal with them using escrow.

I was just saying, that all those folks who have been scammed wont come back.. the web is full of understandable accusations that bitcointalk itself is a scam ring, due to allowing the scammers free reign.. stupid posts are deleted by mods, but scammers are allowed to continue abusing other members?

I'm stopping here, my blood is gonna fill a hot water bottle..

What do you mean scammers? Scammers are people who steal from other people.
It would seem you mean trust abusers (or even scam busters) when you say 'scammers' here "but scammers are allowed to continue abusing other members".
There's a big difference.

Scammers are theif's, using deception, for personal gain.

I have no link to scam buster's, so assumed this was VODS scam ring?

If my above statement is true, then scambusters are also sacmmers, and hence theivin bastards.

Well, VOD doesn't do anything. All he does is scam bust. I don't even see him offering services for his rep. He's respected by members for keeping them away from scammers, and hated even more by scammers because he catches them before they try to scam.

You're a known liar.  None of what you just posted is true.  I'll be here long after you're gone, fool.

And I'm a 15 foot tall dinosaur. Theres no way that we can verify that anyone would be a good moderator of the trust system. If I opened a scam accusation against you, and you were the moderator of the trust system, would you let it stand? What if someone offered you 50 BTC to side with them? What if someone offered you 1000 BTC to side with them? How is Theymos going to know your character well enough to trust you or anyone else for that matter with that kind of power? And what about the at least 19 other trust system moderators that we would need in order to keep up with it all, how are we going to verify that they are as honest as you? Think about how many resources and staff members Ebay has to "try" to regulate their feedback, and they still suck at it. There are a ton of ways to get scammed on Ebay leaving you with no actions to take, and they have a full staff who work 40 hours per week solely on trying to moderate their feedback system.

There is no way possible that anyone could be trusted with that kind of power, there is no way to eliminate self interest and biass, so why not let people know just how the system works so that there is no expectation that feedback is?

I don't get it. You are then advocating to have yourself banned. We've never had any business relation, yet you felt it necessary to leave me negative trust, along with a lengthy slanderous description. Nor did I leave you any trust rating, until after finding out you left me one. This is the first time I've ever given or received a trust rating.


This is proof you are a delusional liar. I would love to see real proof of your accusation, that I am Vod or that I have ANY other alias on this forum whatsoever. You're simply butthurt towards me, since I have no problem with defending myself and other BCT members from your bullshit attacks and because Vod exposes liars and scammers like you. Something everyone on this forum appreciates, except for the liars and scammers like you being exposed, that is.

Yes, I posted that pic in response to a post he made. Basically, he was asking, 'why we don't be the gods we are?' and I responded with, 'for the same reason I can't be Wolverine'. :D

Wow, gods that we are..lol.. Sounds to me someone got their lunch money took alot and has found a way to retaliate. Just another opinion from the prior statement. I have not taken the time to read all the posts throughly and come to a legit cencus. I will in the next day or so.

Well people who receive negative feedback say the same thing that don't judge without knowing the who story. So instead they expect me to go through their profile history and then judge them. That's interesting as I don't have time to investigate nor am interested in doing so. Better don't deal with both trusted and non trusted users? In this case, Trust is meaningless.

Trust rating isn't here to guide you or to prevent you. You shouldn't trust "trust", you should make up your own mind when dealing with someone. The feedback are from other users, if you trust them, you can trust the user who they trust. It works something like that but you should never trust "trust". There are many people who have high trust rating who turned out to be scammer. So don't trust "trust", trust "yourself" when trusting "others" and make up "your own" mind.

I come from a forum where I deal with users based on their trust and since I have been a member there for 3+ years, it's taking time here for me to digest the rules as I don't agree with 90% of them. I get to know of a new rule everyday in this section.

It isn't rules, it is truth. It is hard to digest not only to you, but most humans.

"Truth is hard to swallow and even harder to digest"

Why?