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Title: SCAM IPO [Bakewell] - Finally, a 'transparent' investment that will 'grow'! Post by: ianbakewell on August 29, 2012, 07:11:47 PM Restored from: http://web.archive.org/web/20130305005856/https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=104489.0
Please note that Ian Bakewell is currently in default and hiding from his obligations - more information see: http://scammer-ianbakewell.com/ https://bitfunder.com/asset/BAKEWELL 100,000 shares total 50,000 public shares @ .15 30,000 growth and maintenance 20,000 founders stake The shares will be released on a 5 : 3 : 2 schedule For every 5 shares sold to the public, 3 will be considered active for growth and maintenance, and 2 will be sent to my personal portfolio. This will keep the percentages proportional to funds raised while we grow Total bitcoin raised: 7500 Market Cap: 15000 25,000 shares will be put up on ask @ .15 25,000 shares will be available through GLBSE private transfer, minimum 100 shares. I will be offering investors the opportunity to receive an additional 10% bonus shares on purchases over 100. These bonus shares will be awarded to them from my founders stake as a thank you for taking the first step with me. Those interested in a purchase of 100 shares or more should PM me. The bonus is only available on the 25,000 shares put aside for private transfer. I will be withdrawing BTC to purchase 7970 rigs every 2500 shares sold with the goal of hashing and paying dividends as quickly as possible. Once the first 25,000 shares have been sold, the proceeds from the remaining 25,000 will be used to place an order with Butterfly Labs for a BitForce Mini Rig ‘SC’ (ASIC) Upon arrival of the Mini Rig I will break down and sell the 7970 farm. The proceeds from this sale will be used to order a second BitForce Mini Rig ‘SC’ (ASIC) Any available capital after the second Mini Rig order will be put into BitForce Single/Jalapeno purchases *Reserve the option of purchasing equivalent ASIC technology from a BFL competitor should that become a better option for us This plan of action will allow us to immediately begin mining and receiving dividends while allowing us to competitively upgrade to ASIC technology once it becomes available. 100% of the coins gained from mining will be paid out Dividends will be paid on Monday and Thursday mornings before 12 Noon Mountain Time My compensation will be received as dividends on my 20,000 shares The dividends received on the 30,000 growth and maintenance shares, after covering monthly expenses, will be put toward expanding our mining operation with the best available technology. Bitcoin is an amazing opportunity and I look forward to building one of the top mining companies with you. The future is uncertain and should we ever need to wind down and close out this asset, we will do so by liquidating the physical equipment at fair market price and utilizing the proceeds and any other BTC holdings to pay a final dividend. https://bitfunder.com/asset/BAKEWELL Title: Re: [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Monday Sept 3 2012 12:00 Post by: Snapman on August 30, 2012, 06:39:29 AM So, another guy trying to get the community to buy equipment for them.... what makes yours any different?
Title: Re: [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Monday Sept 3 2012 12:00 Post by: Bitcoin Oz on August 31, 2012, 06:51:46 AM //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// CPA Shareholder Protection Agreement Customer: Ian B. (bitcointalk.org: ianbakewell) CPA Agents: usagi (tsukino) DATE: August 31st, 2012 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// A. GLBSE Shareholder Protection Agreement 1. Parties are Ian and his business ("the business"), CPA ("CPA") and the GLBSE shareholders of the business ("the shareholders"). 2. CPA will insure shareholders by paying out on behalf of the business should the business become unable or unwilling to fufill the terms of it's contract (see section C). 3. CPA will not be liable for losses greater than the value of the funds held in trust; all other liabilities are the sole responsibility of the business. 4. No party may cancel this contract although any party may choose to accelerate their obligation at any time. B. Payment of Premium 1. The business will contribute one bitcoin (or more) per week to a trust account operated by CPA. 2. The payment address is [1JHP6iaNmPs7osgPKoiki2i28ndm8rDddU] ("CPA Accounts #18 (Ian)"). 3. The first week of coverage is 2012 Week #36 (September 2nd to September 8th). C. Indemnification Procedure 1. If the business breaks the terms of their contract without reparation, CPA will pay the value of the trust account to the shareholders of the business on behalf of the business. 2. A period of 30 days will be allowed for the business to respond and make reparations before paying out on any default event. D. Expiration Clause 1. If there is no default event prior to September 15th, 2013, CPA will contact the business and request guidance; the options will be: 1. to extend coverage, 2. to release the trust account to the business, 3. to release the trust account to the shareholders (as a special dividend). 2. The guidance will be published on the CPA website for a period of 30 days before actoin is taken on that guidance. E. Insurability (This is the "Fine Print") 1. Indemnity The insurance company indemnifies, or compensates, the shareholders in the case of certain losses only up to the lower of the shareholder's interest and the trust amount. 2. Insurable interest The shareholders must directly suffer from the loss; the shareholders have a "stake" in the loss or damage to the assets insured. 3. Utmost good faith The business is bound by a good faith bond of honesty and fairness. Material facts must be disclosed. 4. Contribution Insurers which have similar obligations to the insured contribute prior to any contribution by CPA. 5. Subrogation CPA acquires legal rights to pursue recoveries on behalf of the insured; for example, the insurer may sue those liable for insured's loss. 6. Causa proxima, or proximate cause The cause of loss (the peril) must be directly related to the breaking of the business's contract for financial gain at the shareholders' expense. 7. Mitigation - Before, and in case of any loss or casualty, the business must attempt to keep the loss to a minimum, as if the asset was not insured. F. DISPUTE RESOLUTION 1. Any controversy or claim arising out of or relating to this contract, or the breach of this contract, shall be settled by binding internet arbitration at judge.me in accordance with the judge.me arbitration agreement. The arbitrator's decision shall be final and legally binding and judgment may be entered thereon. 2. The business must indemnify (make whole) CPA's incurred legal fees if they lose their claim, limited to the amount required to be paid by CPA to judge.me. 3. All judge.me fees related to this contract must be paid in bitcoins. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Confirmed Witnessed :) Title: Re: [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Monday Sept 3 2012 12:00 - Now insured with CPA Post by: Bitcoin Oz on September 03, 2012, 12:06:31 AM Why no government ID? Well, I went to pull it out for this, and realized it expired back in January and my pic is from 6 years ago. Went to the registry, have a new one on the way, will update when it comes in. In the meantime I have done my best to provide proof, as some people have asked of me privately. Including a sock on my head, wtf is with that? I tried a search to look up the forum history but its just people yelling about sock puppets. lol they didnt ask for a shoe on head ? I hate it when my ID expires and I need to go back to using a paper birth certificate for all my ID purposes :-[ Title: Re: New IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Finally, a transparent investment that will grow! Post by: Carnth on September 04, 2012, 06:31:24 PM Hello, it's looking good. Here are my questions:
When can we expect to see the first purchase of equipment and first dividend? Where will the equipment be located? Will the equipment be insured against fire/theft/etc.? Will you be mining solo, or in a pool? Which one? PPS rate? Title: Re: New IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Finally, a transparent investment that will grow! Post by: Carnth on September 04, 2012, 07:11:07 PM First purchase and dividends: The first purchase will be as fast as I can execute it following the sale of the 50,000 public shares. Am I to understand that equipment will not be purchased until all 50K public shares are sold? I just want to make sure I understand this clearly.If this is true, you may have to re-think your strategy. I can not afford to have BTC invested in an asset that is not producing current dividends. I'm sure many other investors think the same way. I personally mine @ BTCGuild with my pc right now but I would probably put up a vote between the top pools listed here: http://blockchain.info/pools and take shareholder advice. BTC Guild is pretty good (they even have DDoS protection) but 5% fees is steep.I'm sure there are other pools out there, but I am not the best person to offer advice in this area. Title: Re: New IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Finally, a transparent investment that will grow! Post by: Akka on September 04, 2012, 07:38:18 PM I think too, that waiting until all shares have been sold until you start buying equipment is a bad Idea.
In that case I would be waiting until the majority of the shares has been sold and than try to get in, maybe tring to get some shares below IPO-Price, too, as people would surely get frustrated and sell off. Best plan would be IMO to put asside 2/3 of the BTC ,or so, for the BFL Rig and immediately invest the remaining 1/3 in GPUs to show at least some dividents. Once the Rig is paied you can invest 100% in further GPU grow. Title: Re: New IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Finally, a transparent investment that will grow! Post by: Carnth on September 04, 2012, 09:47:48 PM I really like the open nature of your offering. I like the price.
But I got to be completely honest with you. A quick comparison of GIGAMINING (currently the most active mining asset on the glbse) shows them trading @ .83 for 5mhash now with an option to pay .25 for an upgrade to 20mhash/s post asic. you can buy BAKEWELL right now for .15 and have 20mhash/sec post asic. You would need to hold GIGAMINING and save the dividends they paid for 65 weeks+ to equal the expected gains on BAKEWELL based on current market prices. In your example, we can at the very least expect the difference back in 65 weeks. Or, I can also invest my .15 BTC with PatrickHarnett's Starfish Bank (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=61262.0) OR NYAN.A (https://glbse.com/asset/view/NYAN.A) and expect to have .25 in 55 weeks (rough guess). As it stands right now, I can not expect any return in any number of weeks because there is no guarantee when ALL 50K shares would be sold. Will all the shares be sold before or after the block reward halving? Will they all be sold by 2013? 2014? There is no way any one can know, unless you can get some big investors ready to drop the 7,500 BTC needed. And that is a tall order. My reason for structuring it this way is the BTC:USD volatility. I want to assure the purchase of the first BitForce Mini Rig 'SC'. I fear that if we take funds as they come in, and buy the gpu's .. and the exchange rate tanks ... Again, with no way of knowing when all shares will be sold there is no way what the exchange rate will be at that time. I would like to hear some other opinions on this. The bottom line is: You need to have some kind of return for the investors and you need to be able to tell them when to expect it. Without that information I fear you will never sell all the shares. As said in an earlier post, you are not the first one to do this... so this is how others have done it:
Title: Re: New IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Finally, a transparent investment that will grow! Post by: Akka on September 04, 2012, 10:05:41 PM I really like the open nature of your offering. I like the price. +1 Me too As said in an earlier post, you are not the first one to do this... so this is how others have done it:
I would devenetly invest in thes project if you would go with one of this options. Especially at the price you are offering. Would prefer option 1 though. Title: Re: New IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Finally, a transparent investment that will grow! Post by: Carnth on September 04, 2012, 11:24:56 PM I feel with the majority of those financial offerings... its all just some paper bullshit shuffled around. Holy shit! I can't believe you just cursed... and in your own thread! ;D- I do not mean to come off as a dick, I truly appreciate bouncing ideas back and forth I want to build something solid and real here while keep my investors safe and giving competitive returns. Just trying to be as open and honest as I can :) I don't mean to sound like a dick either. I'm also just being honest with you. Constructive criticism and all that. My whole point is: You already say you want to buy a BFL ASIC rig and that's great. Until that happens we investors make nothing. You joke about NYAN.A being paper bullshit, but it is paying real CPA insured dividends right now. This is what you are competing against. That's right, you are competing against all the other assets. So you have to prove why you should get our BTC instead of someone else. As an investor, I look at GLBSE and see BAKEWELL and NYAN.A or COGNITIVE or any other mining asset and I have to calculate the risks vs the rewards... and I see no reward from your asset. The only way to profit from your asset--as it stands with waiting until all share are sold--is to wait and buy the last shares. In the mean time, this mean no shares are sold, because everyone is waiting to be the last. I think a good middle ground would be to wait until 300 or so BTC have been raised, then put up a vote. Current shareholders could choose to wait, or to purchase 7970s. - Going back to my fear of the exchange rate, it actually kinda seems like a better idea to quickly grab assets that have a more or less static usd value I like the idea. Taking calculated steps toward the goal instead of waiting and making a huge gigantic leap. I would still recommend to go smaller (say 150 BTC) and here's why (Watch out... more "honesty" incoming):
I would not invest until you have a clear plan. You need to show how you can get some return from my BTC. Start very small... Get a rig with one GPU going. Show how you plan to use it, and when you can get a return from it. And when the investors can get their return as well. Once you do this, this thread can get much more active with all the positive returns. But you may have to dip into you own pocket to get things going. This can be either BTC or rigs you already own. AKA, a loan from yourself to the BAKEWELL asset. This is perfectly fine as long as everything is clearly documented. Once you get things started, more investors will follow. And... be nice to fund managers, they usually have bigger pockets than individual investors. :) Title: Re: New IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Finally, a transparent investment that will grow! Post by: mcris444 on September 05, 2012, 01:03:05 AM How much do you estimate the mining rig will cost?
Will it be purchased new? I agree with some of the other posts here. You are competing with other miners. There is a very similar share CIUCIU.MINING It is a fund for a "BitForce Mini Rig ‘SC’ by Butterly Labs" and they pay out 1% per week. Once the unit arrives, the interest paid out in advance will be deducted from the weekly profits. Title: Re: New IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Finally, a transparent investment that will grow! Post by: btharper on September 05, 2012, 01:07:47 AM IPO: The biggest flaw that I haven't seen addressed is that there's no incentive to get in early. No discount, no dividend, nothing. As well anyone who doesn't want to wait can sell into your wall at 0.125, or into anyone else's wall at 0.12500001 which is also below your wall. The laws of economics make your security a hard sell right now.
That being said, you have a great plan for what to do after all the shares are sold; you have a solid start on GPUs that can be resold later, and a clear plan to transition into ASIC as available. My biggest complaint is the 20% "Founders Stake." While I realize that you're putting capital and time forward to setup, manage, and run the IPO, inventory, insurance, and growth. Your plan ends up with you owning $12,000 worth of ASIC for free. Assuming 50x difficulty and 25 BTC block reward you may end up with 600 BTC annually. If the rig runs at 1.5KW and you pay $0.15 USD for your electricity you stand to make $500 USD monthly if bitcoins trade at $10/BTC (Obviously everything would be in local currency though). Pool: I'd suggest P2Pool with at least some of the GPUs, for large enough miners it provides low variance and comes with zero fees. BFL's FPGAs have been known to not play well with P2Pool, but hopefully this won't be a problem with the new generation of products. Caveat emptor: The block reward is halving soon and the difficulty is going to shoot up when ASICs come out, both predicted before year's end. This isn't something the security operator can control, but it's something to be aware of. Also, while you're paying 0.15 to get 20MH/s post-ASIC, dividends are based on half that. That will cause the immediate returns seen by investors to look smaller. Title: Re: New IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Finally, a transparent investment that will grow! Post by: mcris444 on September 05, 2012, 01:17:54 AM How much do you estimate the mining rig will cost? Will it be purchased new? A new BitForce Mini Rig 'SC' is $29,899usd or roughly 3000 bitcoins @ todays rate I intend to order new, directly from Butterfly Labs (http://www.butterflylabs.com/). I had considered paying a premium to get one of the first ones delivered, but I am not sure such an opportunity will arise. Sorry, should have been more specific. The GPU rig. Title: Re: New IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Finally, a transparent investment that will grow! Post by: btharper on September 05, 2012, 04:10:32 AM I personally think midrange gaming rigs will preserve the most value and allow for the quickest resale. I lean toward gaming rigs because in the plan the gpu's are only to provide an income while we wait for asic. We need to retain as much value as possible in the resale to place the second order. This seemed counter-intuitive at first, but makes good sense. The whole point is to use them as a stop-gap and try to get going again after as fast as possible. Title: Re: New IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Finally, a transparent investment that will grow! Post by: Carnth on September 05, 2012, 04:23:50 PM Hello again. I am enjoying this discussion.
I am also being hard on you because I want BAKEWELL to succeed. I am well aware of what is required to run a mining rig. I am a gamer who discovered bitcoin, pushing gpu's to the limit is something I am quite good at. I didn't mean to step on your technical knowledge, but running a company is a new thing for you, and it has its own perils and pitfalls.[snip] I am new to this :) Tho that specific quote is in relation to the wording of the shareholder contract... Also, running a mining rig that thousands of shares rely on for dividends is way more involved with the personal mining that you have been doing. When you start mining "this big" you have to consider stales/rejects much more carefully. Things like lost packets, and ping times to the mining pools actually become an issue. As a gamer, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. This also leads to making sure you have a very stable internet connection from the rig to the pool. Every little problem gets amplified at this large scale. Just one hour of any downtime is significant. These are just some of the things to be considered. Loaning would imply having it paid back with interest, I am not so sure putting BAKEWELL in debt (even to myself) is a good idea at all. You can still loan personal rigs/coins/whatever and charge 0%. The principal would still need to be paid back but I would suggest using the "maintenance/growth" shares for this.As I understand it, you have 100K shares broken down into 3 categories:
I see no reason why any loan can't be paid back using profits from the maintenance shares--especially since you are using it to grow the equipment. This is exactly what its for. I understand this concern & am trying to figure out a way to fairly address it. I believe you may be right with deploying the GPU's first and as funding becomes available You can still keep your 20-30-50 ratio by selling 5 common shares, and then activating the 2 founder and 3 maintenance shares. By activating, I mean all unsold shares--and corresponding "unsold" founder and maintenance shares should not receive dividends. Title: Re: [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Monday Sept 3 2012 12:00 Post by: Carnth on September 05, 2012, 05:39:02 PM PureASIC is not a mining bond. It is listed on GLBSE as stock investment, That's another thing that needs to be more clearly defined on the asset page and in the OP. Is BAKEWELL a bond or a company that issues stock shares? I think you are setting this up to be a company with actual stock shares--in which the investors (shareholders) own a piece of the company, and it's equipment. But I just want to make sure this distinction is clearly defined as it is an important one. Title: Re: New IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Finally, a transparent investment that will grow! Post by: Carnth on September 05, 2012, 06:17:34 PM I am looking for a way to reward the investors willing to put the first money in, I want to solve this problem: Here is what others have done to help jump start: Before the IPO, offer shares at a discount off the IPO price. Example. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=100521.msg1116821#msg1116821) Your shares sell for .15 so you could have offered investors an opportunity to purchase at .14 per share. Perhaps even a better discount for multiples of 100 shares. It brings in less BTC but it can really jump start a new IPO. Unfortunately, the IPO trigger has already been pulled so doing this is a bit more difficult. You can still do this. But you would have to take down most of your 49K+ ask wall in GLBSE. Next, advertise here in this thread that you plan to offer shares to investors at some discount. Set a deadline date. At the deadline, pay a dividend to the existing shareholders for the difference. For example, if you offered .14 per share and investors on GLBSE already bought in at .15--give them a .01 special dividend. Once you have offers for share, you can use the GLBSE asset transfer feature to distribute the shares. No matter what you do, make sure you have your revised mining plan posted in the OP. Make sure you explain your "special sale of shares," if you want to do this, in the OP as well. I would like to create a better "out clause" that is fair to everyone involved should we choose to wind the company down. Since this is a company then my statement in the other thread still stands. Sell the company, equipment (and your founder shares) to someone who wants to take over. Or motion to liquidate equipment and distribute all remaining BTC to the shareholders.- would love your thoughts and opinions on this The other "out clause" is only needed in a perpetual bond. Title: Re: New IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Finally, a transparent investment that will grow! Post by: Carnth on September 05, 2012, 07:46:35 PM ---Paying a dividend out of my own pocket, to be reimbursed from the growth fund once we are underway This is a very bad idea for exactly the reason you gave.
Also, never borrow money to pay dividends. By definition, a dividend is a distribution of a company's earnings. Not a distribution of a company's debt (loans). Only pay dividends with coins made by the company. Title: Re: New IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Finally, a transparent investment that will grow! Post by: Carnth on September 05, 2012, 08:02:35 PM That is what I figured, it just didn't make sense to me and seemed a bit unethical. The only way I can see it being "ethical" is if you invest idle BTC until you have enough to purchase appropriate equipment. COGNITIVE has done this very thing to help keep the dividend yield up for investors. You can see the motion here. (https://glbse.com/vote/view/103) Title: Re: New IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Finally, a transparent investment that will grow! Post by: VeeMiner on September 06, 2012, 12:53:13 PM props for the sock on the head :D
Title: Re: New IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Finally, a transparent investment that will grow! Post by: kokojie on September 06, 2012, 02:44:25 PM This is why people offer shares in increments, instead of all at once. That's how you reward early investors.
For example, first 50k shares 0.3 second 50k shares 0.32 3rd 50k shares 0.35 etc... Title: Re: New IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Finally, a transparent investment that will grow! Post by: Carnth on September 06, 2012, 03:05:55 PM Here is that liquidity crunch I was concerned about. This is a new development that has occurred over the last couple of days. I only mentioned Starfish because I trust him, have my own personal BTC on deposit with him, and COGNITIVE has as well (precedent). During "Normal operation" Starfish would be able to handle withdraws of a couple hundred BTC in one day--more than enough to withdraw and purchase some new equipment.Starfish may longer be an option but there are others out there, if you still would choose to do so. Title: Re: New IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Finally, a transparent investment that will grow! Post by: Carnth on September 06, 2012, 03:08:03 PM This is why people offer shares in increments, instead of all at once. That's how you reward early investors. I think receiving 10% extra shares for free is a pretty damn good deal, don't you? Title: Re: New IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Finally, a transparent investment that will grow! Post by: Carnth on September 06, 2012, 05:42:57 PM I think receiving 10% extra shares for free is a pretty damn good deal, don't you? I do! Me too! :D (I'm sorry, I couldn't resist starting a recursive loop). Today I will finish up the new contract and update the op / get it off to the GLBSE Just want to clarify the plan of action and have it setup so that with the funds from the first 25k shares sold, we are enabled to roll out the gpu rigs as funding becomes available. Going to edit that "out clause" so that winding down the company = pure liquidation of hardware with proceeds distributed as a final dividend. Remove that buyout option. Sounds good. Once you finalize the plan, you'll be getting a pm from me. ;) Title: Re: New IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Listening to you. Give feedback. Post by: Carnth on September 06, 2012, 06:50:00 PM I have questions about how you plan to handle GPU mining:
GPUs suck energy, get hot, and loud.
Title: Re: New IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Listening to you. Give feedback. Post by: Carnth on September 06, 2012, 07:13:08 PM Electricity is charged to my entire building in one go, the condo board pays the bill out of the collected condo fees. As such, my electricity is included in my condo fees, so as I mentioned in my OP, its on me (doubt ill be moving anytime soon either, definitely not before we go asic) Lucky... no cost utility for you. Cooling - lol are you kidding, I live in Edmonton and we are going into a winter - ill just open the window ;) I was just getting the questions out of the way. And I'm sure once you have 10+ GPUs, you will not need to turn on central heating. ;DTitle: Re: New IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Listening to you. Give feedback. Post by: Carnth on September 07, 2012, 04:29:57 PM And here is the updated contract. [snip] This is looking really good! Looks like CPA is having some difficulties [snip] Not sure what to do about this. I don't think there is anything you can do. You got CPA insurance to build shareholder trust, which was a good move. But at this time, the whole Pirate fiasco is the worst economic blow to Bitcoin in its history. Unfortunately CPA is right in the middle of it. The outlook of CPA is grim and again there is nothing you can do. You have already paid for insurance for BAKEWELL but if CPA goes out of business (in the USA, we call this Chapter 7 bankruptcy) it will mean BAKEWELL is uninsured. And that's all there is to it. CPA was the only reputable insurance issuer that I know about. After things from the Pirate fiasco settle down, I'm sure you will be able to find a reputable person/company/entity to get insurance from if you still want to go that route. Title: Re: New IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Listening to you. Give feedback. Post by: fourd00rgtz on September 09, 2012, 01:47:54 AM Cooling - lol are you kidding, I live in Edmonton and we are going into a winter - ill just open the window ;) --- Really tho, we are looking at about 10 mid range gaming rigs. Each rig shouldn't be putting out that much heat, not any more than I am used to dealing with running a regular multi card pc. I can always pick up a few localized air conditioners / fans to point at them. I also have central air. I run 5 rigs with 21cards in my 900sqft condo in Calgary, have 2 12000btu A/C units and it still gets up to 32c if I have everything running. My one crutch is that my unit faces south so I get a lot of sun heat. I too have "shared" utility costs but have come to a limit with my power panel, you got quite the setup to avoid that problem. Title: Re: New IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Listening to you. Give feedback. Post by: Bitcoin Oz on September 09, 2012, 03:12:54 AM And here is the updated contract. [snip] This is looking really good! Looks like CPA is having some difficulties [snip] Not sure what to do about this. I don't think there is anything you can do. You got CPA insurance to build shareholder trust, which was a good move. But at this time, the whole Pirate fiasco is the worst economic blow to Bitcoin in its history. Unfortunately CPA is right in the middle of it. The outlook of CPA is grim and again there is nothing you can do. You have already paid for insurance for BAKEWELL but if CPA goes out of business (in the USA, we call this Chapter 7 bankruptcy) it will mean BAKEWELL is uninsured. And that's all there is to it. CPA was the only reputable insurance issuer that I know about. After things from the Pirate fiasco settle down, I'm sure you will be able to find a reputable person/company/entity to get insurance from if you still want to go that route. Im trying to find out what collateral CPA still has to back the contracts its signed. A lot of their funds are tied up in deposit takers that are in default and wont pay back for 3 years or more. Title: Re: New IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Revised contract up for review Post by: Carnth on September 10, 2012, 03:11:56 PM CPA still seems up in the air. This is a good move.None the less, I will keep up my side of the agreement :) Second payment is out now. Even though CPA is in question, you should not deviate from your contract until you have definite response (one way or the other) from CPA. It shows you are willing to keep your side of the bargain, and reflects positively on BAKEWELL. Title: Re: [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - New contract now live @ glbse! Post by: sp0rus on September 10, 2012, 07:53:57 PM Keeping an eye on this. Looks promising, and I like how much trouble you're going to to try and be as open as possible and do what your investors feel would be best to optimize the bond.
Title: Re: [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - New contract now live @ glbse! Post by: Carnth on September 10, 2012, 08:51:39 PM The new contract for BAKEWELL has been pushed live & I have updated this threads op. The whole contract looks good. You now have a clear plan on what you intend to do:
The only thing I would change in the entire contract is the naming of specific mining equipment. For instance, you specifically mention 7970 GPUs and BFL ASIC mini rigs. And you don't need to. Who knows what equipment will be best in the future. Maybe a competitor to BFL will come out and have better performance. I would have kept this more generic saying: Quote I will be withdrawing BTC to purchase GPU mining rigs every 2500 shares sold Quote the remaining 25,000 will be used to place an order for a 1TH/s mining rig (for example: a BFL ASIC Mini Rig) When using more generic terms, you get more freedom to choose from the best available mining technology--a phrase that you used when describing the maintenance shares: Quote The dividends received on the 30,000 growth and maintenance shares, after covering monthly expenses, will be put toward expanding our mining operation with the best available technology. One more thing you should consider doing for transparency, is starting a share-able spreadsheet (Google Docs/Drive) and specifically list how many shares are sold, how many maintenance shares and Founder shares and in existence, etc. You can also use this spreadsheet to list equipment that BAKEWELL currently owns, if it's in use, how much BTC was earned, dividends paid, etc., etc., et cetera. Title: Re: [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - New contract now live @ glbse! Post by: btharper on September 11, 2012, 01:15:11 AM Hello Carnth, I don't think Carnth is disagreeing with your use of 7970's, just that there's no reason to force yourself into using those in contract. You could just say GPU and for as long as 7970's are the best option keep using them.Thank you for raising your concerns. I specifically mentioned using 7970's because I want people to know that I am not investing in fpga I wanted to be sure to mention the 7970's as they will retain the resale value much more than fpga and other gpu (5970/6990's) once asic hit the market This is a competitive advantage BAKEWELL has over other mining offerings and I wanted to hilight it. Title: Re: [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - New contract now live @ glbse! Post by: niko on September 12, 2012, 04:37:45 AM It turns out Ian and I are neighbours, so we met over a drink and had a chat about lots of things, including his business and Bitcoin in general. I feel it's a good idea to share my impressions and thoughts, so here they are:
Disclaimer: I have no conflict of interest to declare at this moment, as I do not own any shares yet. However, I am considering an investment. Title: Re: [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - New contract now live @ glbse! Post by: Carnth on September 12, 2012, 11:25:49 PM I will begin reaching out to the fund managers this week, see how I can go about getting them involved. Another good move. If you are successful with some fund managers, I expect our first purchase of mining equipment in the very near future. Can you throw around some funds you intend to talk with? https://glbse.com/api/quantity_trading/BAKEWELL 631 shares in the wild [snip] Currently 24941 shares are on ask with 69 having been sold to the public. Again, I love the transparency. Title: Re: [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - A Transparent & Growing Mining Investment - fair contract Post by: Charles Bass on September 13, 2012, 08:44:17 AM Hey Guys!
I am also in with a small amount! i think it is important to push transparancy, ian shows the community a new way of company leading! best wishes Chuck Title: Re: [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - A Transparent & Growing Mining Investment - fair contract Post by: Carnth on September 13, 2012, 05:25:08 PM I noticed that you are still not verified on GLBSE. I would check with Nefario on this.
Some investors will not purchase if there is no verification. Title: Re: [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - A Transparent & Growing Mining Investment - fair contract Post by: sp0rus on September 13, 2012, 06:00:10 PM Just put a little investment into this, looking to get more later.
Title: Re: [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - A Transparent & Growing Mining Investment - fair contract Post by: Carnth on September 13, 2012, 08:11:15 PM Just put a little investment into this, looking to get more later. If you are looking to get 100+ shares, send a PM to Ian and you can get 10% additional shares for FREE!**Limited time only. Title: Re: [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - A Transparent & Growing Mining Investment - fair contract Post by: johnjay3000 on September 14, 2012, 12:10:03 PM Looks like we also had a market buy of 40 shares last night, we are coming along well, a little more than 1/3 of the first rig has been raised now. That was me! Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Capital One Corporation on September 17, 2012, 01:22:26 AM When you investing a mining company you should take the management fee factor into consideration. And this Ian charges for 20% of this mining company by receiving free shares. It is too high compared to other mining stocks.
And he placed your BFL orders too late. Investing your mining company will not be profitable. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: puffn on September 17, 2012, 01:29:09 AM When you investing a mining company you should take the management fee factor into consideration. And this Ian charges for 20% of this mining company by receiving free shares. It is too high compared to other mining stocks. And he placed your BFL orders too late. Investing your mining company will not be profitable. Disagreed on both counts. Care to try again? 20% is standard for this sort of contract. His bfl orders will still be profitable. He will probably end up waiting less than most of the first guys who ordered. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on September 17, 2012, 02:02:29 AM When you investing a mining company you should take the management fee factor into consideration. And this Ian charges for 20% of this mining company by receiving free shares. It is too high compared to other mining stocks. And he placed your BFL orders too late. Investing your mining company will not be profitable. Disagreed on both counts. Care to try again? 20% is standard for this sort of contract. His bfl orders will still be profitable. He will probably end up waiting less than most of the first guys who ordered. Also, he'll get to choose the best ASIC product based on actual performance, not promises. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Carnth on September 17, 2012, 03:09:20 PM BMF has invested for 300 shares of BAKEWELL. This is great. BAKEWELL is starting to take off. 5. The issue is insured by an independent third party. This made me chuckle. Usagi, I know you wear many different hats... but, um. I'll just leave it at that. 20,000 shares put aside for a founders stake. ... 2500 of these are going to initial investors who purchase 100 shares or more. This knocks me down to 17,500. Then the dividends I receive on those 17,500 shares, 50% , are going into a shareholder protection fund. So initially, I only take 8.75%. Just to clarify for those of you who tr;dr the thread: If you want to get in right now, Ian will give you 10% more shares for free if you PM him and buy 100 shares or more. These 10% extra shares come from Ian's "Founder Shares" aka, his management fee shares. He is giving these shares away to not only help get this first rigs up and running, but to also thank early investors. Remember, the 10% bonus shares will only be matched for a total of 25,000 shares set aside for this special offer, and ONLY in you request it through a PM to ianbakewell. I repeat, the shares for sale on GLBSE do not qualify for this offer, but are a great way to purchase shares if you can't afford 100+. If there are any other fund managers considering BAKEWELL, really take a look at this offer. @Ian, You might want to look at getting that first rig up and running sooner than later. Getting any kind of dividend paid (not matter how small) will get a lot more investors to buy. It will show that BAKEWELL can generate income and is not "all talk." Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Carnth on September 17, 2012, 08:16:19 PM Quick share sales update: Currently in the wild: 1337 OK. I'll make the comment: HA! Leet -- I am working on getting those first 2500 sold as quickly as I can. Still in the process of reaching out to fund managers. My fear is that selling those last 500 shares (of the first 2500) will be very, very difficult. As I said earlier, please try to get a dividend as soon as possible. This could be holding up some investors and fund managers. It shows the complete process of having actual equipment and generating income. 183.75 BTC is more than enough to get a rig going (with 1 GPU). Plus you can add more GPUs as additional capital comes in. And, don't forget to take rig pr0n photos. Those are always fun. ;) Also, tell Nefario to update your BAKEWELL verification. You posted that you submitted verification over a week ago (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=104489.msg1167605#msg1167605). What gives? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: nameface on September 17, 2012, 10:03:12 PM I'm in for 110 shares.
Let's get that first rig up and running :) Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: btharper on September 18, 2012, 02:46:43 AM More good news, there are currently several buy orders in above Ian's 0.125. So even before the first rig is up liquidity is improving.
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Carnth on September 18, 2012, 05:05:03 PM Just opened a new support ticket at the GLBSE (#358) I'm just trying to remove any roadblocks that any potential investor might have. Verification and paying a dividend are the last two major hurdles. We are getting closer. Keep up the good work. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on September 18, 2012, 09:02:47 PM Just opened a new support ticket at the GLBSE (#358) I'm just trying to remove any roadblocks that any potential investor might have. Verification and paying a dividend are the last two major hurdles. We are getting closer. Keep up the good work. To me the last road block (now successfully cleared) was simply the fact that all my play dough was tied up in other projects. I suspect this is the case with most interested investors at this moment. Other than that, it seems to me that Bakewell is among the most transparent and least risky opportunities out there - and after meeting Ian in person last week, I feel even more strongly so. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Carnth on September 19, 2012, 06:32:11 PM Possible mining pool idea:
Horrible Horrendous Terrible Tremendous Mining Pool Forum (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=95378.0) | Website (http://hhtt.1209k.com/) This is a PPS pool made by fireduck (the programmer behind SatoshiDICE). His pool allows you choose how much of a fee you pay based on the difficulty of the shares you submit. You can get all the way down to near 1%. His theory is that every share submitted adds a load on the pool and put additional strain on the database. If you submit less shares (and don't clog up the pool as much) you get charged a lower fee. So, if you choose to submit difficulty 32 shares (the default) the pool charges a 2% fee. His pool also features no sign up, and auto payouts. Here is a chart of the various fees: Code: Diff Fee Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Carnth on September 19, 2012, 10:17:28 PM Currently in the wild: 2437 Woo! Getting close to our first rig! Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Carnth on September 21, 2012, 02:53:04 PM Always some drama in this little niche of the internet ::) /me sits back and watches drama.[...] Butterfly Labs has always been an ... interesting ... company [...] *popcorn* http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/jh2up/219c2gi.gif This is why we (the investors) pay the operators of mining companies (like Ian) a fee or a percentage. It's Ian's job to look out for all of our best interests in BAKEWELL. Keep us updated just like you have on everything else. There are other ASIC companies out there. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Carnth on September 21, 2012, 04:03:57 PM we have now passed the 2500 sold mark. I will withdraw the BTC from the glbse this weekend and begin converting to fiat. Woot! I will be balancing in now: M&G will be given 1500 shares, 748 will be sent to my personal portfolio. Please put these numbers and hardware inventory in a public spreadsheet. Awesome. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on September 21, 2012, 04:12:40 PM Glad to see we are making progress, and looking forward to first dividends!
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: nameface on September 22, 2012, 07:39:15 PM Always some drama in this little niche of the internet ::) --- So the most recent news seems to be: Butterfly Labs CEO 25 Million USD Mail Fraud — A Concise Summary of Evidence (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.0) Some shareholders have asked me how this pertains to BAKEWELL as we mentioned pursuing the purchase of BFL products. Butterfly Labs has always been an ... interesting ... company to work with, and while they have provided our community of some of the best mining equipment, they are not without downfalls. I included this provision in the BAKEWELL contract to deal with those downfalls; *Reserve the option of purchasing equivalent ASIC technology from a BFL competitor should that become a better option for us With many other competitors in the wings, I am not to worried. It will be interesting to see how this develops, particularly considering some of our competitors are heavy on the BFL pre-orders. Depending on how this turns out, and the speed of the other ASIC companies, we may have just gotten some extra gpu time as well... *popcorn* I say (as a shareholder) that BAKEWELL should avoid BFL. Have any opinions on https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110090.0? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: 001sonkit on September 23, 2012, 01:29:36 AM hi Ian bakewell
Do you have any clues about how much Mh/s will be generated per share? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: nameface on September 23, 2012, 04:47:55 AM I am currently watching many developments; https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110090.0 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=79637.0 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=108375.0 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91173.0 etc etc As far as I am concerned, they are all vapourware ;p Let them do what they do and we will assess the available offerings when they start to hit the market. This way we get hard peer reviewed numbers, not a marketing pitch. In the meantime our gpu rigs will pump out the mhash and hold equity until we are ready to sell and switch. Nice :) I think the high resale value of GPUs is a really important factor right now. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Carnth on September 24, 2012, 05:45:35 PM The 7970's are to act as a stopgap while we wait for asic to actually hit the market. While we lose mhash/$ going with gaming rigs, I think we will gain in ease of resale and retention of equity. My only fear is: the person who purchases the rig expects any kind of warranty. If no warranty is given, then resell price could be hurt. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on September 24, 2012, 07:36:58 PM The 7970's are to act as a stopgap while we wait for asic to actually hit the market. While we lose mhash/$ going with gaming rigs, I think we will gain in ease of resale and retention of equity. My only fear is: the person who purchases the rig expects any kind of warranty. If no warranty is given, then resell price could be hurt. The store would still honour any manufacturers warranty, as far as the store is concerned, they warranty/insure the hardware, not the customer. Would cost a small premium but 2 years of same day swap in store insurance is available for purchase, and is transferable as well. The insurance service also permits a reset to factory settings(clean os install) and a virus scan a couple times a year. This will help with any concerns our customer would have. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: johnjay3000 on September 25, 2012, 05:36:38 AM I see we're now at 5006 in the wild!
When do we expect to have our first rig up and running? Also, does anyone else think it may be a good idea to have a spreadsheet documenting where money is spent and recieved from? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on September 25, 2012, 06:03:12 AM I see we're now at 5006 in the wild! When do we expect to have our first rig up and running? Also, does anyone else think it may be a good idea to have a spreadsheet documenting where money is spent and recieved from? Sure, a spreadsheet would be nice. I'd be happy with a general biweekly report stating income from btc mined and sales of equipment, and payouts and various expenses. No need for details. In case you are concerned whether we are getting good deals, get in touch with Ian with questions and suggestions. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: johnjay3000 on September 25, 2012, 06:09:05 AM I see we're now at 5006 in the wild! When do we expect to have our first rig up and running? Also, does anyone else think it may be a good idea to have a spreadsheet documenting where money is spent and recieved from? Sure, a spreadsheet would be nice. I'd be happy with a general biweekly report stating income from btc mined and sales of equipment, and payouts and various expenses. No need for details. In case you are concerned whether we are getting good deals, get in touch with Ian with questions and suggestions. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Carnth on September 26, 2012, 04:41:13 PM hopefully I get to go shopping this weekend. Looks like when it is all said and done we will have around $4k CAD to put into gear. This has got to be one of the fun parts of managing a mining asset... getting to spend thousands on equipment. Have fun, and make us proud. Don't forget to wheel and deal a little. Ask the manager for discounts if you spend more than X thousand. The worst that can happen is that they say "no." Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: silverbox on September 27, 2012, 07:09:14 PM So have you bought any gear yet? Paid any dividends?
What are you planning on buying a couple boxes with 2 7970s in them? Puts you at ~2.6Ghash? Thats about 6 BTC a week, half paid as a dividend to shareholders. 3 BTC spread over 5000 shares @ .125 each 625 BTC, thats about 0.5% per week. With no ASIC gear on order. Wow, I didn't realize how light the payout is when the operater doesn't put any gear in to start the company. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Carnth on September 27, 2012, 07:20:30 PM [snip entire argumentative statement from competing mining company operator] ::) Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: silverbox on September 27, 2012, 07:22:05 PM [snip entire argumentative statement from competing mining company operator] ::) Ian knows why that statement is there, in the future please don't come to my companies thread and talk trash or I'll be here to talk trash in yours. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on September 27, 2012, 07:31:38 PM So have you bought any gear yet? Paid any dividends? What are you planning on buying a couple boxes with 2 7970s in them? Puts you at ~2.6Ghash? Thats about 6 BTC a week, half paid as a dividend to shareholders. 3 BTC spread over 5000 shares @ .125 each 625 BTC, thats about 0.5% per week. With no ASIC gear on order. Wow, I didn't realize how light the payout is when the operater doesn't put any gear in to start the company. If I had a gear to put in I would be mining for myself. The whole point of Bakewell is to pool resources and start a mining operation, with reasonable transparency and a clear plan regarding the transition to ASICs. [snip entire argumentative statement from competing mining company operator] ::) Ian knows why that statement is there, in the future please don't come to my companies thread and talk trash or I'll be here to talk trash in yours. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on September 28, 2012, 03:40:05 AM You asked for any suggestions I had - so here gos.
First off, just resetting the price (as you propose) would have exactly the wrong result. The price CAN'T go over 0.15 because of the ceiling - so what your proposal does is guarantee that the price of shares wll progressively fall. That's not something your investors are going to like too much - remember that a lowered price per share for further issues has a double-whammy effect on existing investors: 1. It locks them into a loss on their share value., 2. For each new piece of equipment you buy more shares have to be sold (as the price/share is lower) - meaning their portion of dividends gets diluted more than hashing power increases. What you need to do is give prices a chance to rise - and the key to that is patience. So here's my suggestion (only a quick sketch of it - as it's 4.00am and I need to head to bed shortly): Remove further new shares from the market other than sufficient to buy your next rig. Once those have sold, no new ones will be made available immediately. Let the price adjust itself. If/when that price settles above 0.15 for some significant amount of time then announce that the next block of shares will be made available in a week (or whatever time-scale). That block should be sufficient to buy your next rig (i.e. the cost of it less any portion of mining income reserved for expansion). At the predefined time/date you sell that block into the market at 0.15. Any pre-orders above .15 would of course get filled first. That surplus above 0.15 could be put towards expansion or dividended out to all share-holders post-sale. How does this help? 1. The price can rise above 0.15. That removes one of the current problems - tha tanyone buying shares KNOWS WITH CERTAINTY that if they ever need to liquidate (in the foreseeable future) they're guaranteed to take a loss doing it (not strictly true for those who bulk-purchased). 2. A lot of investors like the possibility of buying shares in an IPO then selling them afterwards for a profit. At present that's impossible. This gives a window in which profts can be taken. 3. If even a single share sells on issue at above 0.15 then existing investors have gained from it. Rewarding your early investors is always a good idea. In essence you need to reduce/regulate supply so the market can set a price. If that price happens to be below 0.15 then the simple truth is that you wouldn't have sold much more even if you'd left the Ask-wall up. Already I see some slightly lower asks going up - and that is BOUND to continue if things don't change: as there's nowhere someone who wants to sell can price an ask except below 0.15. What about new investors who would have bought shares if you left the wall up? They'd be buying off current investors at below 0.15 right now - with the wall gone (albeit temproarily) there's at least a cahnce those trades will occur above 0.15. WHich doesn't directly help you sell MORE shares - but at a minimum is more encouraging for current investors. Let the market show you whether/when there's demand for more shares at 0.15 (or above) - if you see the demand there then fill it. If there's not the demand then the Ask-wall does nothing anyway. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: zapeta on September 28, 2012, 04:00:01 AM I was thinking that with the x% gain, the overall ceiling would be raised. However I do see it could get really bad if a few of those .00001 sells hit in a low liquidity time, mucking the average. Not ideal at all. got it. "In essence you need to reduce/regulate supply so the market can set a price" Understood. I like the idea you have. We are already broken up into sections of 2500 right now, this fits with that. Thank you for the contribution, I am eager to see what the others have to say :) I think limiting the amount of shares is a great idea. There are several mining operations that have left a huge ask-wall up, and prices have only dropped. The operations which have had a more controlled release of shares have seemed to at least maintain prices. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on September 28, 2012, 04:07:57 AM Yeah - it may seem counterintuitive, but having an ask-wall up all the time will sell less shares than only having it up occasionally. I believe there's a few reasons for this:
1. The huge wall looks insurmountable - it gives the impression that the company has run into a brick-wall. If the potential invstor hasn't read the whole thread (and most don't - as evidenced by the total junk people invest in) then they may get the impression nothing will happen until all have sold. 2. There's no urgency for potential investors to but with a huge wall - they know it'll still be there tomorrow/next week. 3. The wall totally prevents investment for short-term speculation, immediately ruling out an entire class of investors. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: markm on September 28, 2012, 04:19:15 AM Maybe a special IPO Mode would be a useful feature in an exchange?
Set an IPO period, a week or however long you want. Have the underwriters buy the shares, so the company knows it is getting the capital it is asking for as that is part of what underwriters do / what underwriters are for. Set IPO mode with IPO price, so no offers less than IPO price can be made. Then the underwriters sell into the market so people who only offered the flat IPO price might not even get any as people more eager might outbid them for all the shares. Once the IPO period is over, the floor on offers is removed and its market-as-usual. If people think the IPO is overpriced they can simply sit out the IPO period and put in lowball offers once normal trading commences. -MarkM- Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: markm on September 28, 2012, 04:27:03 AM Maybe treat each next rig as a separate company, so no dilution of current shares?
Administrative overhead though. Barring that maybe patience has to be it. Demonstrate the awesomeness of the company and part with shares only when good offers are made, content to chug along forever as a one-rig company if one rig is all the initial sale of shares sufficed to finance... (Me I am a one-GPU company and have been for over a year, Interested in financing an expansion of my operation? ;)) -MarkM- Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Bitcoin Oz on September 28, 2012, 02:14:50 PM I never sold all the shares of BitcoinRS either so i simply pulled them from the market and only sell when theres bids at the IPO price or higher. This has allowed some people to make a small profit.
Never sell your remaining shares below IPO price and try to keep a regular dividend schedule. Theres been a few people who have sold down their initial shares and screwed over their investors. See the DMC thread :-X Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Carnth on September 28, 2012, 11:34:04 PM (tho the builder told me offhand I would be his monday build and he'll call me) You could not build yourself? ??? I'm just asking, I don't know your technical skill, but I thought (ASSumed) you could build the rigs yourself.That could have saved $70 * 2 = $140 Plus would make a great weekend project. And hashing would start sooner. Expense on Windows 7 and on SSD = blah :-\ . Yes it adds to resell, but not needed for mining. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: MrTeal on September 29, 2012, 12:39:35 AM That fair, but for $400 than you spent on one system you could purchase a 5x7970 rig from Newegg that would hash more and would probably resell just as well. I think you're underestimating how hard it's going to be to sell a dozen 7970 CF rigs into a market like Edmonton. I would guess that you would be better off for speed resale going with high density, and then parting out and selling later.
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on September 29, 2012, 01:49:27 AM I didn't go through the whole shopping list, but the cards and power supply sell at the same price from vuugo - but you'd wait and pay for shipping, and get only manufacturers' warranties. So, it seems to me that overall this was a good deal.
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: MrTeal on September 29, 2012, 03:09:57 AM Also, $460 is simply too much to pay for a 7970 these days, even a GE. Memory Express actually has a vanilla 7970 on sale right now for $340 plus a $15MIR, even if those don't really factor in for bulk purchases like this. It's OOS online, but I've seen it go down to that level every couple weeks. I know you want to get hashing right now, but even with free electricity a 7970 will only get you about $3/day.
You might want to consider not waiting until you have 2500 shares sold to do each rig purchase. I know selling gaming computers seems like a nice idea, but I really think you'll have a tough time averaging even $1400 when you go to sell them. If that was the case, you'd need to mine at current difficulty and price for 100 days just to pay $600 in depriciation per rig. If you want immediate dividends, I'd really consider buying used mining rigs. At current prices $2000 could pretty easily find two used open air 5x5870 rigs that would do 2GH/s each and would likely maintain their value in resale much better. It's just too late in the GPU mining game to be paying the penalty to drive new hardware off the lot. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Puppet on September 29, 2012, 08:05:21 PM The "insurance" was a bad idea.
I know Ian did it in good faith and to inspire confidence, so I am not writing this as a stab against him, but think it through; any funds that are held by Usagi can not be used by Ian to grow Bakewell and will not produce any ROI, nor interest for anyone (except possibly Usagi, should he manage not to squander them). Therefore, its no different than when you as an investor would buy proportionally less shares, and keep the rest in your own wallet in "escrow". Why would you want usagi to do that for you? Because that is the only difference, if they are in your own wallet, they are safe or you can chose to use them whenever you want. Now those coins are Usagi's, you wont have access to them until 2013 and my guess is you will never see them back. Ian so far has been as open as he can be, he is fully verified at GLBSE and while Im not convinced of the profitability of mining, I would trust him 10x more to take proper care of my investment than I would trust the GLBSE unverified and almost certainly scamming Usagi who has already proven that his CPA insurance will not honor its contracts when he feels like it (see BMF saga). So, I would urge investors to vote for this motion; dont force Ian to throw your money away on a scam, and keep in mind that usagi has a non trivial position in BAKEWELL and you can guess how he will vote. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on September 29, 2012, 09:19:52 PM The motion is available for voting on GLBSE, and it expires on October 1st. I also urge everyone to vote.
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: LoweryCBS on September 29, 2012, 09:48:15 PM The motion is available for voting on GLBSE, and it expires on October 1st. I also urge everyone to vote. I am against continuing the insurance, and in favor of closing the CPA account. Does this mean I vote YES, or NO, on the motion? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Puppet on September 29, 2012, 09:57:50 PM Does this mean that CPA is technically insolvent? (And is delaying the filing of insolvency) Who knows, but I do see this: http://www.2008-olympic.net/UserFiles/2007-6/25/2007625204059722.jpg Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: puffn on October 01, 2012, 06:01:07 AM Ian, you believed that your 4 bitcoins were in danger of being lost by being in CPA. You had no access to that money. Nothing has changed other than you are reducing the value that you perceived was at risk. He is giving the money back. This is an interpretation of the contract you signed.
What is the real problem here? The capital you had available to you has not changed, and you have secured what you think of as a better place for your investor's money. Also, stop making those damn single posts with the smiley under them. They are fucking annoying. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on October 01, 2012, 06:26:17 AM I can see arguments for both sides here:
On the one hand, the contract strictly interpreted would tend towards usagi sending the money to the shareholders. On the other hand "send the money back" - which usagi agreed to - clearly means to where it came from. Given that both parties to the contract (usagi/CPA and bakewell's shareholders) agreed to waive the terms of the contract, I'd have to end on Ian's side. After all - usagi's own companies happily change their contracts with their shareholders (BMF seems to do it on a regular basis) and never bother getting the contract amended on GLBSE - so any new investors really don't have a clue what the contract of the week actually is. Given that when usagi/CPA made an insurance contract with BMF (its own company) NEITHER side adhered to the contract (BMD didn't claim when entitled to, CPA never paid out, BMF stopped paying premiums - without any mention of either default by usagi), it's sudden desire to actually stick to the strict terms of a contract is hypocritical at a minimum. It's also totally petty - but I wouldn't have expected anything different. Having said all that, in Ian's shoes I'd almost certainly just dividend the 4 BTC to the shareholders anyway. But that should be his choice, not usagi's. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on October 01, 2012, 06:28:13 AM Oh - and for usagi's benefit, a contract is NOT broken or defaulted on when both parties to the contract agree to vary it or waive a term in it.
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Bitcoin Oz on October 01, 2012, 06:35:00 AM There is a possibility someone is wrecking IPO's on purpose. They buy a few shares and purposefully sell below the IPO price to prevent the issuer from raising funds and cause the failure of the IPO.
I wonder if glbse could "lock" trading on an IPO untill a specified time has passed ? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Puppet on October 01, 2012, 06:36:33 AM Also for usagi's benefit (and anyone still under contract with CPA); insurance contracts are unilateral. Only the insurer makes legally enforceable promises in the contract and only the insurer can be held liable for breach of contract.
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: btharper on October 01, 2012, 06:49:00 AM There is a possibility someone is wrecking IPO's on purpose. They buy a few shares and purposefully sell below the IPO price to prevent the issuer from raising funds and cause the failure of the IPO. To do anything of the sort they would have to put the initial investment into the mix, even at the discounted IPO offering (10% bonus) money is still going towards the setup of BAKEWELL. It's just one way early investors can get out.I wonder if glbse could "lock" trading on an IPO untill a specified time has passed ? That being said, it wouldn't help things along any. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: btharper on October 01, 2012, 07:04:47 AM I can see arguments for both sides here: On the one hand, the contract strictly interpreted would tend towards usagi sending the money to the shareholders. That is correct. On the other hand "send the money back" - which usagi agreed to - clearly means to where it came from. Given that both parties to the contract (usagi/CPA and bakewell's shareholders) agreed to waive the terms of the contract, I'd have to end on Ian's side. That is incorrect, specifically, my post was all about how I was not going to waive the terms of my contract with Ian. Dunno where you get your info but it's not from the contract. All things being equal, I'd rather get trolled for keeping a contract than breaking it. As per multiple interpretations of Quote from: usagi Although if you do want the money back that's fine, I just want to see that your shareholders agree (motion). You agreed to refund Ian pending support by shareholders. Right now you look like you're just changing your mind because it didn't work out how you thought it would.If you would like to argue the interpretation that's one thing, but some crazy and convoluted scheme to push a dividend just seems petty at best. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Bitcoin Oz on October 01, 2012, 07:10:09 AM It seems obvious why usagi is pushing for the dividend since they own shares in Bakewell :P
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Puppet on October 01, 2012, 07:13:12 AM It seems obvious why usagi is pushing for the dividend since they own shares in Bakewell :P Yeah he owns out of 432 out of 5928 shares, so this dividend would earn him 0.29 BTC. Things must be dire :) Also, for fun Voted Yea:4895 Voted Nay:433 so 1 share (other than usagi himself) voted for keeping the CPA contract. 99.97% voted against it. Fun stat. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on October 01, 2012, 08:39:36 AM There is a possibility someone is wrecking IPO's on purpose. They buy a few shares and purposefully sell below the IPO price to prevent the issuer from raising funds and cause the failure of the IPO. I wonder if glbse could "lock" trading on an IPO untill a specified time has passed ? I don't think it#s being done to wreck IPOs - it's being done because it's profitable. It's a direct effect of IPOs that offer bonus shares/discounts to large buyers AND put far more shares up for sale then will sell out in a short period. How to make money on such IPOs: 1. Buy bulk shares, so you pay less than the listed IPO price. 2. Relist said shares at 1 satoshi below IPO price. 3. Once they've sold, if there's still bulk shares left go back to stage 1. It makes the person doing it profit - without the IPO issuer selling any more shares to the public. I'd considered doing it myself on this specific offering to be honest: as it's the perfect sort of IPO to make money in that way (about 9% profit basically). To be clear, I haven't done it (yet) on this OR any other IPO - but it's precisely (one of) the sort of thing my tiny LTC fund (which you're aware of) intends to do. We're not looking to make money by picking good value investments (as there aren't many). We're looking to make money from the poor judgment of both asset managers and investors. My point: if it's being done intentionally there's a perfectly sound reason to do it for financial gain - so no need for conspiracy theories about someone trying to wreck IPOs. No way GLBSE should lock trading on IPOs that don't sell out fast: 1. Investors should have the ability to liquidate assets. 2. It would make the IPO sell out even slower - as with a bid-wall (or bid-mountain in this case) noone can buy in unless they believe there's a near-zero chance of them being able to cash-out in the foreseeable future. 3. Why punish investors/speculators for the short-sightedness of an asset issuer? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Bitcoin Oz on October 01, 2012, 08:44:11 AM Its more likely that the market for funding other people's mining farms is saturated.
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Justin00 on October 01, 2012, 09:12:27 AM for those of us playing along at home ;)
are you guys really arguing over 4btc ? or is that some initial payment or something ? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: MPOE-PR on October 01, 2012, 01:19:35 PM There is a possibility someone is wrecking IPO's on purpose. They buy a few shares and purposefully sell below the IPO price to prevent the issuer from raising funds and cause the failure of the IPO. I wonder if glbse could "lock" trading on an IPO untill a specified time has passed ? Ideally, that specified time would be in 2020. Combine this with the idea of holding IPO proceeds in escrow and you have an almost safe GLBSE. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: MrTeal on October 01, 2012, 01:54:42 PM And not shockingly, Usagi is now spreading FUD about Bakewell, as things do not appear to be going his way. Acting like a child and taking constant underhanded swipes at your clients and former clients is not the way to try to drum up support for your business.
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: MPOE-PR on October 01, 2012, 02:57:38 PM It's the principal here. You use "principal" for principle and smickles uses "principle" for principal? What are you, twins? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: zapeta on October 01, 2012, 05:12:12 PM I honestly think the best thing to do is pay the stupid dividend to get the BTC back from usagi, and then you don't have to deal with him anymore. As a bonus, those of us who own shares don't have to shuffle through more back and forth BS that is accumulating in this thread and doesn't matter.
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: btharper on October 01, 2012, 07:05:41 PM If your shareholders agree that the money should be returned to you, then it will be. I think that's fair. Through the mountain of bullshit and everything else there is this. However funds have already been received on the address Ian provided from a vanity address belonging to usagi. blockchain.info (http://blockchain.info/tx/9eb805f2e215fab2d33fd70b59029f2d7fc9268fb5e3edc34aa0a1ae00d4d146). Maybe an impending dividend will help sell some IPO shares then. Here's hoping. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Intention on October 01, 2012, 11:50:50 PM Thank you Usagi and Ian. Now that this is all done I hope that this can be put to rest and we can move on now.
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: btharper on October 02, 2012, 03:35:23 PM Something like S.Dice would be the simplest and quickest to drop in and use. First x many shares (probably 2500 here) are sold for regular price, then there's a small bump up in price, then repeat. Add in a week between release of selling out of one block and starting the next and you may see the price rise more on it's own that it would with just staggered releases. Depending on rate and market of course this sort of plan could get the price up to 0.175-0.2 pretty easily by the time everything is sold out.
The biggest problem I see coming is that any change in sales may make it harder to finish the IPO quickly, and the end goal is to be able to buy a SC Rig (or comprable) sometime before the end of the year (is there any sort of established goal time yet?, maybe just before the GPUs are useless). The other thing you might want to consider looking into is the release of further shares, as long as you can do it without stalling the growth of current shares it may be worth looking into, but that's probably something for another motion. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: LoweryCBS on October 02, 2012, 03:44:48 PM ... BAKEWELL is not some grand scheme to make a quick buck ... Ian, Just wanted to say, as I lurk this thread, that I'm pleased with the way you handle and conduct the management of this asset. I was approached by someone wanting to borrow GLBSE assets to short, and I presented a screen-shot of my current holdings. They weren't interested in shorting BAKEWELL. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: btharper on October 02, 2012, 03:49:42 PM ... BAKEWELL is not some grand scheme to make a quick buck ... Ian, Just wanted to say, as I lurk this thread, that I'm pleased with the way you handle and conduct the management of this asset. I was approached by someone wanting to borrow GLBSE assets to short, and I presented a screen-shot of my current holdings. They weren't interested in shorting BAKEWELL. Even with the startup troubles going on, they are temporary and will pass. Bakewell is gathering steam and will be a hell of an asset to have soon. Now if only I can find more coin to throw in... Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Intention on October 02, 2012, 03:59:43 PM I agree with Deprived's post. I think it is in everyone's best interest ultimately in the end to only have shares that reflect the rigs we have + funding a new one. Releasing everything at once only serves to devalue what existing holders have..
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Carnth on October 02, 2012, 06:28:51 PM What do you all think is the best way to come up with a NAV for BAKEWELL. Do not do a NAV.NAVs are for assets funds like BMF and MOVE.TO (things that are a compilation of other things). Stocks (like BAKEWELL) have Market Capitalization, Price/Earnings ratios etc. You can give the investors a list of all company owned assets (like the 2 rigs you just bought) and left over BTC. This will give us a number, but it doesn't give us a true valuation of the company. How you use those assets, your plans, and your ideas help increase (or decrease) the value. This is how a company stock price can rise (or tank) when a new CEO takes over--even though the rest of the company hasn't changed. So, the only way to really figure out a market capitalization (and price per share) of a company stock is find out what people are willing to pay for it on the market. If the market thinks the company will succeed, then the price will rise. If not, then the price will fall. The more people that are confident in a company, the stronger the price will be. Of course there are things you can do to help the price. (See my opinion) As an investor, there are two ways to make money on a stock in the long run: Growth and Dividends. - Growth is allowing the share price to.. uh, well... grow. The classic buy low, sell high. - I'm sure we all know what dividends are (paying out company profits to shareholders). My opinion: It's very very difficult for a company to do both (growth and dividends). So I would focus on one or the other, and it looks like you already have everything ready for dividends. I think everyone here would prefer dividends as well. The best course of action is to: Maintain the price by keeping the company strong and issue dividends on a regular basis. Taking down the huge ask wall is a good start. There is simply not enough BTC going around to fill that wall (liquidity crunch). So the share price will never rise above it. I agree with deprived on that issue. Release shares in smaller batches is the way to go. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Bitcoin Oz on October 03, 2012, 12:49:23 AM Everyone is quiet because once I figure this out we are going to crush it 8) Reaching out for help, let's make a deal here, many of you are experienced in finance and accounting, far beyond what I could learn in a little time on the net. Hit me up in PM, or just feel free to go over my numbers openly in the thread here, I post everything. I would love one of those fancy live google spreadsheets, building one is a skillset I do not have. Anyone good at making those? reach out to me. Linear depreciation over a reasonable timeframe for each type of equipment (somewhere beetween 1-5 years, this is where I lack some expertise, probably a linearization of Moore's law on ASIC gear) This has a few people talking, the ASIC stuff is only warranty for a few month :o With gpu I don't think many people worried about depreciation, you eat a little loss, but for the most part they take a beating and resell fine. ASIC is an entirely new game. It would be interesting if you could raise USD for a mining company somehow, rather than btc. Then all your accounting is in USD and bitcoin is simply used as the transport protocol to get the USD to you. Bitcoin is also the transport protocol to get the usd back to investors as dividends to save paypal and bank fees. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: btharper on October 03, 2012, 05:41:39 AM I have had a few people reach out in PM offering help - thank you. Well, let's start with the obvious, you want a Google docs spreadsheet. What info you do want in it?No clue how to choose who to help or what I should do / offer to compensate. Anyhow, hopefully over the next few days things will develop to the point we have some solid accounting practices in place and a restructured share release plan :) For the lurkers: Do not be shy, jump in the thread, let us see what you got / what you think. I really do appreciate it. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: johnjay3000 on October 03, 2012, 11:54:18 AM I am not sure what to display. What is important to you guys? As an investor, taking a look at a mining setup like BAKEWELL, what do you need on a dashboard? These questions probably sound elementary but I want to provide what the shareholders want / need. Im cool with just going through the thread for history, and working with BAKEWELL every day I have a good idea of where everything is at but I definitely understand the value of presenting it all in a snapshot and in detail How to properly do that, I am confused on. Every good example I have found so far is for a fund like structure, holding a portfolio of other shares, not something that would fit for mining Seems like I would just need to make a list of hardware / BTC and provide income stats. Personally I would like to see where money is being spent (i.e. transfer fees, equiptment, etc.) and where money is coming from (i.e. mining, share sales). However I would be more than happy with just a basic covering of incoming and outgoing. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Charles Bass on October 03, 2012, 01:31:10 PM Yeah - we should start with a cash-flow and add other features later. +1 and +1 for johnjay3000 Lets start with a basic Cashflow, later we can expand this thing... Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on October 03, 2012, 02:59:16 PM Yeah - we should start with a cash-flow and add other features later. +1 and +1 for johnjay3000 Lets start with a basic Cashflow, later we can expand this thing... Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: btharper on October 03, 2012, 04:08:43 PM Yeah - we should start with a cash-flow and add other features later. +1 and +1 for johnjay3000 Lets start with a basic Cashflow, later we can expand this thing... Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Carnth on October 04, 2012, 12:37:35 AM Are the rigs built?
Are we mining yet? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Bitcoin Oz on October 05, 2012, 04:51:33 AM So I came home to a bunch of mail about the GLBSE. Wow, this sucks. Hopefully it's all good, and we just lose a few days trading. I understand many of you are concerned about the share you have in BAKEWELL and what my plans are. Well, hopefully it's all good 8) The other side: I read about the SEC, etc. and shrugged it off. Now I am not so sure with the GLBSE. Saturday shall be interesting. I spoke with a couple lawyers this evening and have a meeting tomorrow to clarify a few things for me, should anything end up coming down the pipe. See what that turns up. I have already tried to recreate/create my own shareholders list by going through my mail and writing down the private transfers. I do not have everyone, but I have a decent portion. One of the problems with my list, is much like I sent you the shares, you could have sent them to someone else. now what claim do I reward? So some interesting questions arise should the glbse just disappear. Worst case scenario style. I dread this upcoming shitstorm. I have the same homepage you all have as far as any info from Nefario. Should Nefario provide me with a claims list, and pending the advice I get legally, I will definitely do everything I can to facilitate BAKEWELL. Should I be told I gotta drop this due to legality, I will liquidate and try to give everyone a refund more or less, at this size it is just not worth the trouble of going black and getting a .onion One of the other exchanges might facilitate a transfer in the best case scenario. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on October 05, 2012, 06:37:33 AM Have you started mining? In case you need to liquidate, few coins can be added into the pile.
If these problems are really due to a legal action (goat, SEC, whatever), I would imagine Nafario would eventually be able to continue trading or at least close the shop and facilitate transfer of the share ownership information. It is not likely that this information would remain hidden forever. Wishful thinking, I know. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Puppet on October 05, 2012, 07:38:24 AM if GLBSE closes, I imagine there will be a claim code system similar as when Goat was delisted, so you will know who your shareholders are.
Frankly, Id more more worried about the potential consequences of running an unregistered security. You are not alone in that of course, but you are far from anonymous and you might want to talk about that with your lawyer. Before securities, like stocks, bonds and notes, can be offered for sale to the public, they first must be registered with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC). Any stock that does not have an effective registration statement on file with the SEC is considered "unregistered." To sell or attempt to sell a financial security before it is registered is considered a felony. Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/08/unregistered-securities.asp#ixzz28PML2jew Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: johnjay3000 on October 05, 2012, 10:03:43 AM In other news... Have we got the rigs hashing yet, how are they going?
Ultimately there is noting we can do right now, so we should continue with ensuring we have everything else under control, i.e. Get a google docs spreadsheet up with accounting info. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Bitcoin Oz on October 05, 2012, 10:28:27 AM I have noticed an uptake in people talking about exchange platform development lately. I am sure many options will present themselves moving forward. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=115553.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=115553.0) something like this to run your own security on ? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: pyrkne on October 05, 2012, 10:49:12 PM The group will never lose out due to me taking time in my personal life. So admirable. Can we clone you and have the clones run other assets? :P Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on October 06, 2012, 07:28:43 PM Assuming a delisting process will take place with the help of GLBSE staff, we have several options. Bakewell can get re-listed on Havelock, cryptostocks, or any other similar platform. Alternatively, Ian may simply collect the claim tickets and pay dividends based on that. I definitely suggest him not to offer any trading or order books. Things are grey enough already. If you wish to "trade" your share, make arrangements with other users directly.
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Charles Bass on October 07, 2012, 09:42:11 AM We can make a Transparent Board of Trustees, wich handle the trades an "shares".
Bakewell should not be a normal share for speculation, it should be an longtime invesment like a Rig owners club... greets Chuck Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on October 07, 2012, 05:14:47 PM Do not engage in P2P trading of BAKEWELL Just to clarify: what I meant was that Bakewell should only recognize whatever comes from GLBSE, and investors can then make arrangements between themselves. Ian, if you are comfortable spending time managing share transfers between investors, that's great. I was thinking that it might be too much (for both logistic and legal reasons), so investors can make arrangements between themselves and not bother you at all. You just keep paying dividends according to the GLBSE information.Many people are panicking and offering P2P trades of GLBSE assets. While it may be tempting to pick up cheap shares, at this time noone has any way to confirm holdings and trades. I do not care if you both message me, and it is known you bought in on a private sale, etc. I will not recognize or facilitate anything outside of what officially comes from the GLBSE at this time. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Puppet on October 07, 2012, 07:38:59 PM And get legal advice.
Since you are in the same boat as a lot of other asset issuers, why not pool some money to get one lawyer? I dont mean to get your money back from GLBSE, but to continue running a bitcoin security. Giga was getting legal counsel I believe, you might want to chip in, to get his opinions. Alternatively, you could save that money and assume its illegal and a bad idea (which is the most likely legal conclusion IMO). Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on October 07, 2012, 08:29:18 PM And get legal advice. Since you are in the same boat as a lot of other asset issuers, why not pool some money to get one lawyer? I dont mean to get your money back from GLBSE, but to continue running a bitcoin security. Giga was getting legal counsel I believe, you might want to chip in, to get his opinions. Alternatively, you could save that money and assume its illegal and a bad idea (which is the most likely legal conclusion IMO). I wouldn't rely on a single lawyer's opinion in such a novel matter. The opinions seem to range from "it's a security and it's illegal" to "it is simply a contract to run computer calculations, and it's perfectly legal" - whatever the case may be, nothing like Bitcoin has happened before. Ian, if you decide you need more input regarding legality, I suggest you contact other Canadian mining funds, specifically James @ Havelock. They are incorporated in Ontario, though, not Alberta. Finally, Bitcoin Foundation is out there, and is collecting membership fees - helping with these kinds of questions is exactly what they are supposed to be doing. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Puppet on October 07, 2012, 10:24:40 PM And get legal advice. Since you are in the same boat as a lot of other asset issuers, why not pool some money to get one lawyer? I dont mean to get your money back from GLBSE, but to continue running a bitcoin security. Giga was getting legal counsel I believe, you might want to chip in, to get his opinions. Alternatively, you could save that money and assume its illegal and a bad idea (which is the most likely legal conclusion IMO). I wouldn't rely on a single lawyer's opinion in such a novel matter. The opinions seem to range from "it's a security and it's illegal" to "it is simply a contract to run computer calculations, and it's perfectly legal" - whatever the case may be, nothing like Bitcoin has happened before. Ian, if you decide you need more input regarding legality, I suggest you contact other Canadian mining funds, specifically James @ Havelock. They are incorporated in Ontario, though, not Alberta. Finally, Bitcoin Foundation is out there, and is collecting membership fees - helping with these kinds of questions is exactly what they are supposed to be doing. Not that I disagree with your post (particularly getting bitcoin foundation involved), but out of curiosity, did whoever claimed "it is simply a contract to run computer calculations, and it's perfectly legal" have any relevant credentials ? I kinda doubt it. While Im not a lawyer myself, and things might be different in Canada, SEC regulation is pretty clear that these kinds of mining bonds are securities. That the bond relates to mining bitcoins rather than mining coal is of no importance. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: markm on October 07, 2012, 10:49:30 PM I have started setting up an "OTdemo" Open Transactions server anyone can issue assets on so people can actually play around with setting up an asset helping potential customers get set up to access it and so on.
For demonstration / play / etc purposes only of course, any asset subject to being shut down upon court order, not to be abused etc etc usual kind of do not mess with our machines stuff. -MarkM- Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on October 07, 2012, 11:24:17 PM And get legal advice. Since you are in the same boat as a lot of other asset issuers, why not pool some money to get one lawyer? I dont mean to get your money back from GLBSE, but to continue running a bitcoin security. Giga was getting legal counsel I believe, you might want to chip in, to get his opinions. Alternatively, you could save that money and assume its illegal and a bad idea (which is the most likely legal conclusion IMO). I wouldn't rely on a single lawyer's opinion in such a novel matter. The opinions seem to range from "it's a security and it's illegal" to "it is simply a contract to run computer calculations, and it's perfectly legal" - whatever the case may be, nothing like Bitcoin has happened before. Ian, if you decide you need more input regarding legality, I suggest you contact other Canadian mining funds, specifically James @ Havelock. They are incorporated in Ontario, though, not Alberta. Finally, Bitcoin Foundation is out there, and is collecting membership fees - helping with these kinds of questions is exactly what they are supposed to be doing. Not that I disagree with your post (particularly getting bitcoin foundation involved), but out of curiosity, did whoever claimed "it is simply a contract to run computer calculations, and it's perfectly legal" have any relevant credentials ? I kinda doubt it. While Im not a lawyer myself, and things might be different in Canada, SEC regulation is pretty clear that these kinds of mining bonds are securities. That the bond relates to mining bitcoins rather than mining coal is of no importance. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Puppet on October 08, 2012, 06:49:13 AM It really is a contract to run calculations, and results of calculations (hashes lower than target) happen to have some market value. The point is that it has value. That the value is derived from computer calculations is irrelevant. I dont see an exception for securities based on running compute intensive code. As for it being a contract; yes its a contract, but the important point is that it is a tradable contract, aka as a security. Quote This is certainly a reasonable point of view, even if particular court or a regulatory body might come up with a different perspective. If and when I see a court or an SEC ruling (or whatever it is called) naming a particular mining operation in the context of securities, I'll agree that they've interpreted it that way. Until then, we are speculating. You can speculate if robbing a bank is legal, but its not prudent to assume it might be. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on October 08, 2012, 07:06:10 AM You can speculate if robbing a bank is legal, but its not prudent to assume it might be. I've seen bank robbers arrested, tried, and jailed. I've never seen a bitcoin miner collecting initial funds via GLBSE having any legal troubles. Not saying it won't happen, just saying it never happened. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: markm on October 08, 2012, 07:14:52 AM From http://www.gov.ns.ca/nssc/faq.htm :
" The first step is to try and determine whether in fact a provision of the Nova Scotia securities laws has been broken. This may require you to consult with a lawyer. Our Staff is also available to discuss your concern or to meet with you and try to sort out whether a violation of the law, in its letter or its spirit, has occurred. Call (902) 424-6179 or contact us via e-mail and your request will be directed to the most appropriate branch for dealing with your question. In general, where there is no intent to break the law, and no negligence or wilful blindness, our aim will be to work with you to address the breach. Another objective will be to see that steps are taken to avoid any repetition of the events and circumstances that caused the violation to occur. While it is impossible to predetermine what specific actions might be taken, given the variety and uniqueness of each set of circumstances that may result in the breaking of the law, our approach to unintentional or inadvertent breaches is oriented toward promoting a culture of compliance with securities laws and usually stops short of a more draconian enforcement approach. A more severe approach is generally reserved for cases where there has been a wilful attempt to evade or avoid the laws or some negligence resulting in harm to the public or whenever there is a real risk of danger to the public calling for stronger measures. " -MarkM- Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on October 08, 2012, 07:06:48 PM Quote from: glbse Update:we will begin processing account closures and returning bitcoin later today. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: johnjay3000 on October 10, 2012, 03:49:05 AM What the fuck, so for any amounted have to verify?
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on October 10, 2012, 04:51:09 AM I'm fine with providing my info to any business that:
- I like - is registered with appropriate authorities - has a privacy policy in place outlining the collection, use, and guarding of my personal information Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on October 11, 2012, 03:50:25 AM Seems like we are moving forward. You may now log on to GLBSE, and leave a BTC address if you want your funds returned. You can also provide a contact email and tick a check box if you want this info forwarded to the issuers of the assets you hold.
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: btharper on October 11, 2012, 05:21:00 AM I have not been able to check, as I went through the process last night, but I have heard that the AML restrictions have been lifted. Just went on myself, as long as it's all as straightforward as it looks this is a relatively smooth shutdown on GLBSE's end, though it still leaves assets off the exchange and floating in the air. Getting coins out works though, and asset issuers can be given contact information.Edit: Quote Claim finished Your claim has been submitted and will be reviewed. You will be contacted (via the email address you provided) to keep you up to date on the status of your account, we will try to get your bitcoin to you as soon as possible. Well why the hell does this require review? Here's hoping it's mostly a formality :-/ Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on October 14, 2012, 06:41:57 PM Just got an email from the GLBSE: Quote Your GLBSE account has been processed for bitcoin. The next step will be to send you information about your assets, and to provide this information to issuers (if you agreed) allowing you to continue your relationship with your issuers. Seems like general canned mail for regular accounts, I still have noting in terms of BAKEWELL from the GLBSE This is a significant workload for Nefario, and it's only himself or few people at best doing the whole job. Chances are good that information will be sent out soon to issuers. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on October 17, 2012, 01:50:55 AM Still no updates from Nefario. A good handful or two of days have gone by now. Much has been talked about in our community. I am interested in hearing what you all think should happen with BAKEWELL now that the GLBSE is gone. What would be the solution you choose out of all the ideas and actions we have seen from the community lately. I suggest - keep mining, liquidating, and upgrading as planned. Pay the dividends as planned (I'm assuming GLBSE will be providing information in a day or two). If for some reason I want out, I'll try to find a buyer and upon receiving the payment I'll authorize you to transfer ownership in your spreadsheet. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Carnth on October 17, 2012, 01:54:00 AM I am interested in hearing what you all think should happen with BAKEWELL now that the GLBSE is gone. What would be the solution you choose out of all the ideas and actions we have seen from the community lately. I think BAKEWELL should still operate as normal. In fact I hope you are mining with the 2 rigs you already have. Just keep the earnings in a BAKEWELL wallet for now. There are others working on new BTC "asset" exchnages. Burnside has a promising one in development, complete with consulting a lawyer and everything. I hope that Nefario will be able to release the list of email addresses with whom owns what and how many. If that is the case, then moving to a new exchange is easy. This would definetely get my vote. Even without an exchange, issuing "shares" and dividends is doable manually, albeit much more messy. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: tulkos on October 18, 2012, 03:36:57 AM I'm all for the spreadsheet for the time being.
Also to get up and mining ASAP. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: tulkos on October 18, 2012, 03:58:31 AM Also to get up and mining ASAP. Rigs are up and running, pps @ 50btc, just banking right now while everything gets worked out :) Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on October 22, 2012, 07:08:42 PM Also to get up and mining ASAP. Rigs are up and running, pps @ 50btc, just banking right now while everything gets worked out :) Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on October 28, 2012, 10:39:22 PM How is it going? No word from GLBSE yet. I would be comfortable waiting a bit more before trying to reconstruct everyone's stake based on initial transfers and published history of trades. In the meantime - we are hashing, aren't we?
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Carnth on October 29, 2012, 12:56:55 AM The market has not picked a replacement for an exchange & the glbse has sent nothing out. :-\ so sitting in limbo Thanks for keeping us updated. As far as a replacement exchange, Burnside has something that looks very promising. Once Nefario reseales the list of asset owners to the respective issuiers, moving to a new exchange (like Burnside's) would be practically painless for everybody. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on October 29, 2012, 08:45:19 PM Based on the GLBSE trade history available in
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=117491.0 we can see that there were a total of 52 trades of BAKEWELL, for the total of 610 shares worth 91.03 coins. Note that trade history file does not include private transfers. Out of these 610 shares, only 54 were traded below BTC0.15, for the total value of BTC7.63. I'd say even if we don't get info from GLBSE, it won't be hard to figure out ownership based on what everyone claims. Many people, I am sure, will have some kind of personal ledger they've kept, and the rest can be calculated, as it all needs to add up. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: johnjay3000 on November 02, 2012, 11:21:53 AM My private list should be pretty much bang on in terms of who has what. Unseen advantage in making contact with people and doing the private sales I am missing a couple handfulls of shares that were sold on the open market out of the ipo allotment, and anything that was done p2p between holders privately. I am/was holding 65 shares that I brought open market... not sure how I can prove it now though... Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on November 02, 2012, 02:27:42 PM My private list should be pretty much bang on in terms of who has what. Unseen advantage in making contact with people and doing the private sales I am missing a couple handfulls of shares that were sold on the open market out of the ipo allotment, and anything that was done p2p between holders privately. I am/was holding 65 shares that I brought open market... not sure how I can prove it now though... If you have problems converting from Unix time to UTC, let me know and I'll provide a converted version. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Evolvex on November 02, 2012, 05:49:14 PM Thanks for the updates Ian, sounds like everythings going well.
Do you hold how many shares I've got or should I be looking to provide some proof etc? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: johnjay3000 on November 03, 2012, 08:17:27 AM Do you know the date and time of the purchase? Even approximate time might help. You can look up trades in the file linked here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=117491.0 If you have problems converting from Unix time to UTC, let me know and I'll provide a converted version. Yeah I saved all that incase this kind of thing happened. Code: Type Timestamp btc_amount # of Shares Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on November 15, 2012, 03:31:43 PM How are the rigs doing?
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on November 16, 2012, 06:11:39 AM Going strong pushing 650mhash per card (they are running at 1100) with zero downtime. I was hoping to overvolt the cards a bit and push them up to 1200ish, but I don't want them to go down while I am out during the day should the ambient temp rise. Yep, back in my mining days I came to conclusion that stability is more profitable than those elusive extra 50 MH/s per card. Keep on hashing! Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: johnjay3000 on November 16, 2012, 09:45:17 AM So whats the deal with divs? I havent been paying much attention lately so I am a bit out of the loop.
Also, if I was interested in selling, would Bakewell buy them back or would I have to find a seller, and how do we handle them wthout an exchange? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Carnth on November 16, 2012, 04:30:02 PM Also, if I was interested in selling, would Bakewell buy them back or would I have to find a seller, and how do we handle them wthout an exchange? I am just as confused about how to move forward as everyone else is. Sure, Ian may know who purchased shares using his "special deal." But who's to say that nobody sold those shares on the open market? In my opinion, until Nefario decides to do something, there is not much that any asset manager can do. And everyone will just have to wait (essentially all assets frozen) until that time. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on November 17, 2012, 06:34:40 PM Sure, Ian may know who purchased shares using his "special deal." But who's to say that nobody sold those shares on the open market? In my opinion, until Nefario decides to do something, there is not much that any asset manager can do. And everyone will just have to wait (essentially all assets frozen) until that time. It's not that big of a problem, as only 54 shares were sold in the open market. Even if someone lies to not have sold them, they are risking their reputation for ~$80, and we can easily absorb that loss. Based on the GLBSE trade history available in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=117491.0 we can see that there were a total of 52 trades of BAKEWELL, for the total of 610 shares worth 91.03 coins. Note that trade history file does not include private transfers. Out of these 610 shares, only 54 were traded below BTC0.15, for the total value of BTC7.63. I'd say even if we don't get info from GLBSE, it won't be hard to figure out ownership based on what everyone claims. Many people, I am sure, will have some kind of personal ledger they've kept, and the rest can be calculated, as it all needs to add up. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on November 17, 2012, 11:07:28 PM Would it hurt to start asking shareholders to submit their claims to you now? Perhaps it would turn out that no p2p trades are claimed. Even if they are claimed, both seller and buyer would need to claim their part, and it would all need to add up in your book.
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Carnth on November 20, 2012, 02:57:50 AM If you plan on continuing operations with a new exchange, I would highly recommend https://btct.co/
burnside has spent a lot of time on the Litecoin version of his exchange (where I manage an asset), and has now just released the BTC side. Burnside got a lawyer, and registered it in Belize. As a standard feature, you will be emailed all shareholder information on a routine basis--just in case. And, it's not slow! Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Bitcoin Oz on November 20, 2012, 12:20:44 PM If you plan on continuing operations with a new exchange, I would highly recommend https://btct.co/ burnside has spent a lot of time on the Litecoin version of his exchange (where I manage an asset), and has now just released the BTC side. Burnside got a lawyer, and registered it in Belize. As a standard feature, you will be emailed all shareholder information on a routine basis--just in case. And, it's not slow! +10 Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: matthewh3 on November 22, 2012, 07:58:11 PM If you plan on continuing operations with a new exchange, I would highly recommend https://btct.co/ burnside has spent a lot of time on the Litecoin version of his exchange (where I manage an asset), and has now just released the BTC side. Burnside got a lawyer, and registered it in Belize. As a standard feature, you will be emailed all shareholder information on a routine basis--just in case. And, it's not slow! +10 +1 Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on November 27, 2012, 04:58:33 AM Would it hurt to start asking shareholders to submit their claims to you now? Perhaps it would turn out that no p2p trades are claimed. Even if they are claimed, both seller and buyer would need to claim their part, and it would all need to add up in your book. Let's give it a try Shareholders: If you held BAKEWELL shares at the time the glbse went down, please PM me any information you have regarding your holdings. Have you received the claims from everyone? Anyone missing? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on November 29, 2012, 09:46:07 PM Have you received the claims from everyone? Anyone missing? A little less than half the shares in the wild have been claimed. Most people seem honest, some seem like total bullshit... and a good portion know they liked me, think they might have bought me, but do not really know what they held. I have not received anything from the GLBSE yet. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Carnth on November 29, 2012, 10:58:01 PM A few options exist to relist, still not sure what the best option would be, and everywhere has really low volume - I guess investing in bitcoin land is killed now? I would be very happy to see BAKEWELL continue on https://btct.co/ We would need to win some sort of popularity contest or somesuch to get onto btct.co but I'll look into it more, it seems to be the most recommended around the forum and easiest to get involved with. On the upside, should we take a new listing somewhere, it gives us the opportunity to address some of the problems we had on the GLBSE (thinking back to the ceiling problem and lots of shares on the market) I know how btct.co works, because I manage an asset on burnside's Litecoin Global's exchange (https://www.litecoinglobal.com/security/LTC-GOLD) (and btct.co is just a copy-n-paste of that). It's true the when a new asset is listed on btct.co, your asset is approved by umm.. lets call them "asset moderators" (full disclosure: I am one). Here's how it works:
Other benefits of btct.co:
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: burnside on November 29, 2012, 11:38:44 PM That is correct. GLBSE assets will get the 5 BTC refunded to their account once we have verified that they existed on GLBSE before the shutdown.
We also have an import script that will import Nefario's list, create accounts, transfer the shares to the new accounts, and email the users their new account info, Cheers. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: LoweryCBS on November 30, 2012, 12:37:19 AM Anyone have opinions on cryptostocks, therocktrading, havelockinvestments, mpex, or anywhere else they would like to mention? Just want to make sure we take a look at everything and have hear everyone out. I am quite impressed by BTC-TradingCo. Bakewell will thrive there. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on November 30, 2012, 01:18:37 AM Anyone have opinions on cryptostocks, therocktrading, havelockinvestments, mpex, or anywhere else they would like to mention? I've been happy with Havelock Investments for many months now, and that is exactly why I would not like to see BAKEWELL migrate there... I don't want all of my eggs in one basket. Btct.co seems interesting, not least because of the cautious approach to legal questions. It appears that, the way they are set up, they couldn't do much damage other than run away with whatever funds they are holding at the moment.Just want to make sure we take a look at everything and hear everyone out. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Icoin on November 30, 2012, 01:00:13 PM Quote Anyone have opinions on cryptostocks, therocktrading, havelockinvestments, mpex, or anywhere else they would like to mention? Just want to make sure we take a look at everything and hear everyone out. Well my expirience with Cryptostocks is just awesome :) Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: 001sonkit on November 30, 2012, 04:55:11 PM one vote for cryptostocks
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on December 01, 2012, 10:57:43 AM Also, does anyone know the equation I would use to work out how much BTC should have been earned if mining 24/7 with 2400Mhash/s from Oct.3 until now (@ 50btc (https://50btc.com/) so with a 3% fee)? This is not trivial. I don't see much historical data provided by 50btc except the list of blocks solved. There is no total hashrate available, so we can't tell what fraction of those blocks' rewards belongs to us. Alternatively, we could rely on historical Bitcoin total hashrate, which is easily accessible, but this may be problematic because of variability ("pool luck"). My understanding is that, due to 50btc being the largest, error would be low, but someone more versed in statistics should confirm or refute this. If confirmed as ok, I'll pull out nethash data and make a spreadsheet with expected daily earnings. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Carnth on December 01, 2012, 02:03:59 PM Also, does anyone know the equation I would use to work out how much BTC should have been earned if mining 24/7 with 2400Mhash/s from Oct.3 until now (@ 50btc (https://50btc.com/) so with a 3% fee)? this may be problematic because of variability ("pool luck"). I thought 50BTC (ironic name now) is a straight PPS pool. Wouldn't this make calculating daily payouts easier as a there is no variance on PPS pools? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: btharper on December 02, 2012, 03:07:27 PM It looks like we solved our first block last night! (30.11 17:31 000000000000002fd8edc2c445189351c1f2c6133d587a1ccd688718f911c45e BAKEWELL) Hate to spoil the fun, but that's block 210354 (http://blockchain.info/block-index/322728/000000000000002fd8edc2c445189351c1f2c6133d587a1ccd688718f911c45e) and was only worth 25BTC. Still a solved block though!This is one of the mini milestones in my head, solving a block / earning 50BTC :) Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on December 02, 2012, 03:28:45 PM It looks like we solved our first block last night! (30.11 17:31 000000000000002fd8edc2c445189351c1f2c6133d587a1ccd688718f911c45e BAKEWELL) Hate to spoil the fun, but that's block 210354 (http://blockchain.info/block-index/322728/000000000000002fd8edc2c445189351c1f2c6133d587a1ccd688718f911c45e) and was only worth 25BTC. Still a solved block though!This is one of the mini milestones in my head, solving a block / earning 50BTC :) Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: niko on December 02, 2012, 09:59:31 PM Shouldn't have done this. A newbie might come across this image, and get the idea that you can literally mine coins with those rigs.
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: btharper on December 03, 2012, 12:20:50 AM Hate to spoil the fun, but that's block 210354 (http://blockchain.info/block-index/322728/000000000000002fd8edc2c445189351c1f2c6133d587a1ccd688718f911c45e) and was only worth 25BTC. Still a solved block though! Haha yeah, I was really hoping that we would have banked BTC50 and solved a block before the halving, it was one of the goals in the back of my mind. Ah well, came in pretty close :) --- The Litecoin community seems small but is growing, and with the litecoin stock exchange, a possibility of spinning off a BAKEWELL subsidiary (BAKEWELL-LTC?) group exists. Not sure if much demand would exist for a LTC clone of BAKEWELL tho. Just something that crossed my mind while thinking about asic on the horizon and liquidating the rigs. We are sitting on BTC170 (44 earned from mining and should be dividended, but maybe retaining for purchase due to time raising funds lost, is better) ... so we will be able to place an asic order when they hit the market. Then its just what we want to do with the rigs. Sell them or spin them off. (spin off gives us LTC we can convert to BTC as well, its just not a total liquidation, we would leave some equity behind in return for the ownership stake in BAKEWELL-LTC) Thoughts & Opinions? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Carnth on December 03, 2012, 06:11:34 PM The Litecoin community seems small but is growing, and with the litecoin stock exchange, a possibility of spinning off a BAKEWELL subsidiary (BAKEWELL-LTC?) group exists. Not sure if much demand would exist for a LTC clone of BAKEWELL tho. [snip] (spin off gives us LTC we can convert to BTC as well, its just not a total liquidation, we would leave some equity behind in return for the ownership stake in BAKEWELL-LTC) Thoughts & Opinions? Many miners (predicatively) switched to Litecoin when the Bitcoin reward halved. This, in turn, skyrocketed the Litecoin diff to more than double--overnight. As miners found out that Litecoin is not profitable because of the high Diff, they are now leaving. The Litecoin community is a up-and-coming scene (full disclosure, again: I am a Global Mod at LitecoinTalk forums). To be honest though, the few mining assets on the Litecoin Global Exchange are not performing well. BUT this is for the same reason that Bitcoin mining bonds stopped performing well... they are mining bonds. BAKEWELL-LTC would be the first Litecoin mining company in which shareholders own the equipment as well. This would be a boon to investors. The fact that BAKEWELL can mine with free electricity is a huge benefit. It allows for mining possibilities that other setups couldn't possibly consider. I would definitely consider BAKEWELL-LTC. Numbers would have to be run to see potential profits and the ability/feasibility to expand operations. But I have a good feeling overall. If you were to do a BAKEWELL-LTC I would keep everything LTC. Burnside might even have a way to "import" shareholders from BAKEWELL if you plan to spin-off operations. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Carnth on December 11, 2012, 08:32:19 PM Nefario has sent me shareholder information over the last few days. I have compiled the lists sent to me and compared them against the private sales that were made and the shareholders claims that came in. As of today all shares are accounted for on the lists Nefario sent me. This is great news. I will be pursuing a resisting at https://btct.co/ This is even better news! :D I'm glad to see the operation continuing. And I will offer my help with the transition, if you need it (I'm sure you won't). On a personal note, it was "not cool" when you locked the thread. With the history of open communication that you have had here, I was surprised that you would just give up, and quit..... I must inform you that at this time you should probably consider the GLBSE listed asset BAKEWELL a loss. You all have my apologies. ... instead of continue your open dialogue here. Anyway, keep us informed on the progress. And thanks for looking out for all your shareholder's interests. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: LoweryCBS on December 11, 2012, 09:24:55 PM Nefario has sent me shareholder information over the last few days. I have compiled the lists sent to me and compared them against the private sales that were made and the shareholders claims that came in. As of today all shares are accounted for on the lists Nefario sent me. I will be pursuing a resisting at https://btct.co/ Very pleased! ;D I look forward to the reincarnation of Bakewell, especially on BTC.CO Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on December 11, 2012, 10:55:26 PM you should be able to find BAKEWELL here now: https://btct.co/security/BAKEWELL I am just waiting on burnside to get back to me on how to import the list. Then we can start to hammer out a contract revision that makes more sense considering where things stand today, and start moving forward again! :) Details of the import process are here : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127215.0 You need to get moderator approval for the share before he'll do the import - so finish contract up as it is then unlock it for voting. You'd need to have the list imported before you change contract anyway - as distributing the shares is pretty much a prerequisite to hold a vote to apply any contract changes. When you PM burnside don't forget to ask for your 5 BTC registration fee back. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Carnth on December 12, 2012, 03:43:37 PM BAKEWELL is now approved and listed in the marketplace. https://btct.co/security/BAKEWELL I will be forwarding the shareholders list I received from Nefario to burnside this morning so the import can begin. This is great! Things seem to be progressing very smoothly. And I can't believe how fast it was approved. ;) I'll be waiting for my email from btct.co. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Carnth on December 12, 2012, 07:04:06 PM BAKEWELL import complete. If you held BAKEWELL and went through the GLBSE claims process, you should now have an email in your inbox. Please check your spam folder before reporting missing emails. BAKEWELL support thread here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=104489.300 Thank you all for using BTC-TC! This email was caught in my spam folder. Also, I just want to let everyone know that once you log in to the "conversion" account that was automatically created and verify your shares, you can log out and create a new account on btct.co, perhaps with a username that you prefer. After you create a new account, you can transfer any shares from the "conversion" account to your account for free. Then you can forget about the "conversion" account. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Charles Bass on December 12, 2012, 10:00:58 PM Is it planed to pay dividends next few days?
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on December 13, 2012, 07:05:41 AM BAKEWELL import complete. If you held BAKEWELL and went through the GLBSE claims process, you should now have an email in your inbox. Please check your spam folder before reporting missing emails. BAKEWELL support thread here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=104489.300 Thank you all for using BTC-TC! Of the 5916 shares that were in the wild at last count, 5486 were on the GLBSE list. All of the shareholder claims that were made with me were accounted for on the GLBSE list. Please PM me if you are experiencing difficulty with your claim. The remaining 430 shares went unclaimed and have been returned to the BAKEWELL treasury. I will not be placing an ask wall. I may take advantage of selling into appropriate bids should they arise. I have made the BAKEWELL holdings public, you can see them here: https://btct.co/portfolio/f7s3 Some of you may remember the issues we were working on before the fiasco, we need to have a conversation about how to structure the share sales, etc. We got ported over on the old contract, but it definitely needs to be tuned up. Coupleof points on this, to avoid problems down the line: The unclaimed shares should be transferred to a seperate account on btc.co (this procedure is described in the thread about migrating to btc.co). It's not safe at this stage to assume they'll never be claimed - some may be people who were away, or ones where nefario screwed up, or people who couldn't get the GLBSE 2fa working to register a claim etc. They need to go in a seperate account -so their share of any dividends paid gets held for them. Also, do bear in mind that the shares held for management/growth would need to be adjusted if you ever do return shares to treasury. My recommendation would be that you don't treat any shares as totally unclaimed until the point is reached where nefario stops providing further updates on GLBSE. Second point is that you really shouldn't be selling any new shares at all - no matter how high the bid - until you've disbursed the back-logged dividend (or voted to apply it to growth). Those funds are due to the investors who held shares whilst GLBSE was down, not to anyone buying new shares now. This is a pretty trivial point really - but basically you have to get finances up to date before selling new shares. Not sure what you're proposing to do going forward, but my recommendation is that the very first thing you need to do is work out a pretty good valuation of the company's current assets: the hardware presumably now has a lower resale value than you bought it for (exchange-rate change for one thing). Then you need to work out what price shares would sell for NOW if that is what funds were being raised for. That's complicated a bit by the management/growth shares - you'd need to leave those out when calculating value per share (as I assume those wouldn't count for division of assets if there was liquidation). TBH I heartily dislike artifical shares like that - as they pollute valuations and votes plus can be abused if a manager tries to close down and keep a share of company value equal to them, when all they really are is a lazy way of splitting profit and not an equity share. Reason you need to revalue shares is otherwise if you try to sell at original price then you just won't be able to sell much - as new investors will be being asked to help pay for dividends and losses already received/made by existing investors. That's a problem faced by lots of mining companies - where asset value decreases. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: LoweryCBS on December 13, 2012, 12:58:19 PM Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: 001sonkit on December 13, 2012, 02:11:28 PM It may have been in your Spam box, search in there. I got mine ended up there
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Charles Bass on December 13, 2012, 06:29:36 PM I see the Motion but where ist the Vote, or yes or no button?
greets Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Charles Bass on December 13, 2012, 06:46:13 PM I will tell you why i vote for dividends.
If i get dividends i can buy new shares. So my personal value raises und the company value raises. But if we retain the money, the company value raises but not my personal, because when people buy shares in 6 months they profit form my "dividends" i diddnt get payed.. greets Chuck Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: btcash on December 13, 2012, 07:04:17 PM I can't vote and apparently I am not the only one who can't vote:
Quote YES: 0 NO: 0 Are you sure the motion is unlocked? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: LoweryCBS on December 13, 2012, 09:29:49 PM You know, that's a pretty good point.
What's the amount per share that's in question here? I will tell you why i vote for dividends. If i get dividends i can buy new shares. So my personal value raises und the company value raises. But if we retain the money, the company value raises but not my personal, because when people buy shares in 6 months they profit form my "dividends" i diddnt get payed.. greets Chuck Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: LoweryCBS on December 13, 2012, 09:36:28 PM The amount to be paid / retained will be in the area of BTC48 (sorry, too lazy to search) 48 BTC over how many shares? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: LoweryCBS on December 13, 2012, 10:00:15 PM We currently have BTC127.3 banked. If we were to retain the additional 49 from mining to date we would be at 176.3 add to what we can raise from selling a few more shares from the treasury and what maintenance and growth will receive in dividends, and I think having BTC200 ready to go to is within reach and probably a good idea. That gets 2 singles (or equivalent) shipped to us right quick once they come out. My initial leaning was towards paying out, but then I decided to vote my 310 shares YES for retaining the earnings. I believe Ian can put the earnings to work (once ASICs are available) and best increase the value of Bakewell shares that way. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: btcash on December 14, 2012, 12:54:51 AM Quote But if we retain the money, the company value raises but not my personal, because when people buy shares in 6 months they profit form my "dividends" i diddnt get payed. +1Quote once they come out. When do you expect that to happen?Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on December 14, 2012, 03:19:35 AM Just something you ought to know about motions on BTC.CO.
The criteria for a motion to pass is that 50% or more of ALL outstanding shares must vote Yes - there's no putting up a motion for 24 hours, only a handful of shareholders vote then something major gets changed. I think you probably rushed this motion before everyone even realises the share has been relisted - and will struggle to get 50% to vote. There's also a problem with this - as you have non-voting/non-equity shares allocated to collect growth fund. If you don't vote with these it would be hard for a motion to pass, if you DO vote with them then votes get decided largely by shares that shouldn't vote at all. Only way round it right now is that before vote ends, transfer those shares back to treasury - so they don't get counted in vote result - then transfer them back after the vote. Then whenever you sort contract out you need to change the part regarding those shares and just take 30% for growth and then dividend other 50% out (which will allocate correctly to your management shares which I think ARE entitled to vote). Using shares to split income - when the shares aren't bought, don't own equity and can't vote is just terrible: not just for votes, but also for calculation of share value and distribution of equity in event of a closedown. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on December 14, 2012, 04:35:27 AM I am also not entirely convinced those shares should not be able to vote. Of course they can't vote. Otherwise you'd have 50% of votes even if you didn't invest a cent of your own in buyinh shares. Same as if company shut down they wouldn't get a share of what was raised from selling assets - as those shares are owned by the company itself not by you. They're basically treasury shares that are being reserved so as to mess up voting/valuing etc just to save having to multiply income by 0.3 to work out how much to reinvest. Put like that hopefully it's pretty obvious how bad an idea they are. Shares for management is different - those are owned by you, though debatably it's still a bad way to do it as in theory you could have closed down right after selling first load of shares, distributed raised funds amongst shares and kept 20% for doing nothing). Plus it by no means clear what happens if you ever buy shares back - do you have to return some management shares to treasury? Do you not get to take new ones until shares sold surpasses old highest level? etc. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: burnside on December 14, 2012, 08:06:23 AM I wish burnside would implement sub portfolios already ;p +1 It's getting more important by the day. I'm hating having to hop around accounts when it's dividend paying time. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Charles Bass on December 14, 2012, 12:27:06 PM There is many to do, bakewell looks transparency but it istn for me..
Whats the value of the Hardware, whats the value of cash in the company? if we want to be professional we need a Supervisory board, and something like a balance sheet.. Are the 5700 Shares only private ownership or are they including the Company & CEO shares? When is it planed to give out "new shares"? greets Chuck Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Carnth on December 14, 2012, 04:48:20 PM Seriously - just return all the growth shares to treasury, retain 30% of all future dividends (including the outstanding one if motion doesn't pass) for growth, return 360 of your private to treasury (so they're up to date with what's actually sold) then going forward you give yourself 20 shares each time 80 more have been sold. I agree with doing things this way as it does making furute accounting and motion voting much easier (and transparent). But, I would request a motion so that the contract can be changed to reflect this. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on December 14, 2012, 06:59:33 PM You have it backward, I sell and then balance - putting me at the loss while waiting for shares to sell, not putting shareholders out of pocket up front. 2500 were sold 1500 then got sent to G&M 1000 then got sent to me - I paid out 252 as bonus shares on private sales, leaving me 748 that accounts for the first 5000 shares - a public tranche of 2500 and then a balancing the other 700 shares currently outstanding are part of the second 2500 share tranche Neither myself nor G&M have been balanced against those 700 yet. Balancing happens AFTER all share sales in the tranche. Removed my post - as I'd misinterpreted what you meant by 2500 sold (because of your system sold doesn't mean same as outstanding as it usually does). Yeah - assigning them after a block is sold works to advantage of investors (means their dividends don't drop so heavily while a batch is half sold). Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Charles Bass on December 17, 2012, 08:22:53 AM So are the 700 Shares saled or for sale?
If we want that more people buy these shares we have to pay dividend! I bought shares 3 months ago and got only risk and no benefits! Why should people buy shares without any payout? If ASICS boards come out Next Year and we get one, and the people bugying Bakewell shares, where is my profit from taking the risk? Where is my Benefit for buing the first RIGs that Bakewell could start and mining money to buy asics? just my 2 cents Chuck Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on December 17, 2012, 07:38:53 PM Yes: 1806 | No: 1288 | Abstain: 2 .... 356 shares missing outside of what I control. I vote yes with 748 personal shares. I vote yes with 1500 company shares. Yes: 4054 | No: 1288 | Abstain: 2 5700 (4054/5698 = 71.1% Approval) The mining revenue will be retained On what basis do you believ votes allocated purely to retain 30% for growth should vote? By doing this you're basically saying that you get to vote with 50% of all shares every time (20% go to you, 30% to growth) so you only have to buy 1 share and you can pass any motion at any time. So any time you choose you can withhold dividends, vote to close and pay back nothing etc. It basically makes investment in the company worthless - as you get half the votes without having to part with a cent, so can change anything and do anything you want. If the company were to close down, would growth shares get a portion of the proceeds from liquidation? If yes - then where would those funds go? If no, then pretty obviously they don't hold equity and can't vote (they're just a clumsy method to hold back 30% for growth). Seems strange you'd devalue your company like this just to hang onto a few BTC - but issuers doing everything they can not to return funds to investors isn't exactly new. FWIW if I'd held shares I'd probably have voted YES - retain the cash for growth - but fixing a vote to do it isn't the way to get a change. Passing a motion is MEANT to be hard - as contracts should be rarely changed - it's not meant to be something operator just does on a whim without overwhelming support from investors. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: strello on December 17, 2012, 11:31:39 PM Hi there.
As a new investor, may I gently suggest that it appears to me to be time to get a few things in order. The question of voting rights which Deprived addresses above is very important. I completely agree that giving yourself 50% control over any motions by giving votes to the growth shares seems unreasonable, and detrimental to the voice and wishes of shareholders. I believe this is making Bakewell less attractive as an investment. The share price seems to be dropping as I write this, and I see that as a clear sign of dissatisfaction, not only with the result of the recent vote, but the state of the fund in other areas as well. The growth shares should not have a vote. The contract is also a mess and unclear, still referencing GLBSE, and obviously not reflecting the actual situation at the moment. I would suggest this should be updated as soon as possible. And the questions which Charles Bass raised some days ago are very important. I think there should be much clearer information about the current state of equipment, finances, mining revenue, shares and future plans. I fully realise that there has been a period of chaos and uncertainty due to the GLBSE fiasco, and I'm sure you have been very busy, but now it seems to be time for some real transparency. I'm very happy to have had the opportunity to invest in Bakewell on BTC-TC as I have been following your progress since the start, and I have been very impressed so far. I would really like to see Bakewell succeeding and profiting at this exciting new phase with ASICs just around the corner. Good luck! Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: creativex on December 19, 2012, 05:09:14 PM Yes: 1806 | No: 1288 | Abstain: 2 .... 356 shares missing outside of what I control. I vote yes with 748 personal shares. I vote yes with 1500 company shares. Yes: 4054 | No: 1288 | Abstain: 2 5700 (4054/5698 = 71.1% Approval) The mining revenue will be retained I'm disappointed that you've chosen to vote with growth and income shares that should clearly not have had a vote. Unfortunately as investors are now fleeing I can only join the herd and sell at a loss at this point or hold onto shares that have no voice. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on December 19, 2012, 05:31:16 PM Yes: 1806 | No: 1288 | Abstain: 2 .... 356 shares missing outside of what I control. I vote yes with 748 personal shares. I vote yes with 1500 company shares. Yes: 4054 | No: 1288 | Abstain: 2 5700 (4054/5698 = 71.1% Approval) The mining revenue will be retained I'm disappointed that you've chosen to vote with growth and income shares that should clearly not have had a vote. Unfortunately as investors are now fleeing I can only join the herd and sell at a loss at this point or hold onto shares that have no voice. Silly thing about it is that the motion would have passed anyway had he just temporarily transferred the growth shares back to treasury before it closed: but that would have meant acknowledging the growth shares had no vote and losing ability to choose the outcome on future votes which may not otherwise go the way he wants. The problem isn't that the motion passed (looks like it would have legitimately passed) - it's that the way it was done shows a total lack of respect for shareholders and makes it plain they have no say in what happens. There's also another issue - that it seems unclaimed shares HAVE been transferred back to treasury despite that being entirely inappropriate whilst nefario is still sending out updates to lists. I explained earlier in thread how those should be dealt with - and it was also described in the thread detailing how to migrate to BTC.CO. You don't just get to take back shares because nefario hasn't yet included their owner in the list he sent out. He's by no means only asset issuer trying this on - and it just creates a mess down the line when new claims finally show up (aside from being extremely dubious and in bad faith). Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Charles Bass on December 20, 2012, 08:12:29 AM Whats up Ian, do you make holidays?
Beginn to work as CEO and lead the Company, you only burn our money and save the earnings for the company by fake motions by voting with company helded shares.. Look at the Chart, the price is now @0.07, thats the half of the issue price, wake up!... You just only found cheaters company on this board.. the not amused Chuck Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: bitcoinbear on December 20, 2012, 07:04:16 PM I am a bit confused by the recently passed motion. Are you no longer paying out any dividends? Why did the price just drop 50%, if the company is holding onto more funds, wouldn't that make the price go up?
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Carnth on December 20, 2012, 07:17:12 PM I am a bit confused by the recently passed motion. The motion was to either pay out all accrued BTC (during the glbse fiasco) or "bank" it to buy more equipment. Why did the price just drop 50%, if the company is holding onto more funds, wouldn't that make the price go up? The price dropped because Ian used "growth" (company) shares to vote. In my opinion (and others) growth shares should abstain from voting as technically nobody controls those shares. Because Ian's personal shares and company shares will equal 50% of the vote, it makes any future motion worthless and Ian can vote whatever he wants. Some shareholders believe this is not how BAKEWELL should be run and have dumped their shares. Ian, this really needs to be fixed. Growth and Maintenance shares need to abstain from all future motions as those share have no voice. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: MPOE-PR on December 20, 2012, 07:41:17 PM On what basis do you believ votes allocated purely to retain 30% for growth should vote? By doing this you're basically saying that you get to vote with 50% of all shares every time (20% go to you, 30% to growth) so you only have to buy 1 share and you can pass any motion at any time. So any time you choose you can withhold dividends, vote to close and pay back nothing etc. It basically makes investment in the company worthless - as you get half the votes without having to part with a cent, so can change anything and do anything you want. If the company were to close down, would growth shares get a portion of the proceeds from liquidation? If yes - then where would those funds go? If no, then pretty obviously they don't hold equity and can't vote (they're just a clumsy method to hold back 30% for growth). Seems strange you'd devalue your company like this just to hang onto a few BTC - but issuers doing everything they can not to return funds to investors isn't exactly new. FWIW if I'd held shares I'd probably have voted YES - retain the cash for growth - but fixing a vote to do it isn't the way to get a change. Passing a motion is MEANT to be hard - as contracts should be rarely changed - it's not meant to be something operator just does on a whim without overwhelming support from investors. This went over well.... Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: bitcoinbear on December 20, 2012, 09:43:56 PM Earnings up until Noon MST today were: BTC50.5627901 These earnings have been retained and added to the 127.3 we had previously banked. BAKEWELL now has BTC177.8627901 in reserve. The next dividend will be paid out on Monday Dec 24 2012 before 12 noon MST, for earnings accumulated between now and then. The remaining 1800 shares in the current tranche have been put up on ask @ .15 I am giving a 10% bonus on purchases over 100 shares through private transfer - pm me. How much is currently being mined? (how many hash per second?) What will the payment per share be this coming monday? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Carnth on December 20, 2012, 10:01:11 PM Because Ian's personal shares and company shares will equal 50% of the vote, it makes any future motion worthless and Ian can vote whatever he wants. This is false. The bonus shares paid to private sales, alongside the way my private and the G&M shares are balanced in, mean that at no time do I control 50% or more of the currently outstanding shares. I figured it this way: 20% = Personal Stake 30% = Growth and Maintenance That's where I got 50% from. Then you subtract the "10% special offer" on shares. And if people were to take full advantage of your offer, at a maximum that would subtract, 10%. So, at the very, very least you would still control 40%. This is still too much in my opinion. The 30% Growth and Maintenance is what I see as the problem. Those shares should not vote. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Charles Bass on December 21, 2012, 06:06:29 PM Because Ian's personal shares and company shares will equal 50% of the vote, it makes any future motion worthless and Ian can vote whatever he wants. This is false. The bonus shares paid to private sales, alongside the way my private and the G&M shares are balanced in, mean that at no time do I control 50% or more of the currently outstanding shares. yeah, thats the story on the paper! But what if you buy shares from the open market ? What if one of your best friends hold shares for you? Ian make a statemant that you will never again vote with g&m shares! Give us our promised transparancy! If more of my claimd points will be complaid, i am open to raise my bakewell holding. greets Chuck! Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: creativex on December 26, 2012, 04:54:39 PM crash + burn
ian would you please address the controlling interest issue that's been raised? This is clearly a weight dragging down the share price. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Charles Bass on December 26, 2012, 05:30:15 PM I am very dissatisfied with you Ian And with bakewell!
No answers, no announcements , Crash And burn our Money And value... Greets Chuck Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: creativex on December 27, 2012, 01:52:06 AM crash + burn *shrug* Usagi has nothing left to sell. They dumped 430 shares onto the market at a loss to tank my shares and make me look bad. A few hundred after the motion and the last hundred just after they posted a scammer thread about me. Bad news, then tank shares, and you all come into my thread screaming... Now they claim they never had the shares, so it looks like they pocketed some money, left BMF holding the bag, and can now come rant against me. w/e, Usagi can go kick rocks and BAKEWELL is still up and running fine. Enjoy the cheap shares, even with the 10% bonus you can not get them from BAKEWELL for less than .135 The people who picked up the dumps will sell around .125 and make a 100% profit, good for them. The rest of you will need to wait for those to sell in order to see prices stabilize in the proper trading range. No answer then? I don't care if usagi has it in for you, I care that I'm a shareholder with no voting rights. I've been buying cheap shares because I hoped you'd address this problem and make it right and the share price would stablilize at higher levels. IOW I thought the selling was over done, but this issue must be addressed. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: usagi on December 27, 2012, 02:17:04 AM crash + burn *shrug* Usagi has nothing left to sell. They dumped 430 shares onto the market at a loss to tank my shares and make me look bad. A few hundred after the motion and the last hundred just after they posted a scammer thread about me. Bad news, then tank shares, and you all come into my thread screaming... Now they claim they never had the shares, so it looks like they pocketed some money, left BMF holding the bag, and can now come rant against me. w/e, Usagi can go kick rocks and BAKEWELL is still up and running fine. Enjoy the cheap shares, even with the 10% bonus you can not get them from BAKEWELL for less than .135 The people who picked up the dumps will sell around .125 and make a 100% profit, good for them. The rest of you will need to wait for those to sell in order to see prices stabilize in the proper trading range. No answer then? I don't care if usagi has it in for you, I care that I'm a shareholder with no voting rights. I've been buying cheap shares because I hoped you'd address this problem and make it right and the share price would stablilize at higher levels. IOW I thought the selling was over done, but this issue must be addressed. Ian is ripping me off. Here's the scam accusation thread. Please weigh in there: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133362.0 I did not know that Ian was also under fire for other stuff like misrepresenting shareholder votes. But, if he owns shares he bought legally (there's no way he bought 50% of his company though) then he should have the right to vote. Unless he is using stolen/free/issued/unpaid-for shares to act against the best interests of paying shareholders... In that case please post whatever you have to the scam accusation thread above. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: creativex on December 27, 2012, 05:58:17 AM Ian is ripping me off. Here's the scam accusation thread. Please weigh in there: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133362.0 I did not know that Ian was also under fire for other stuff like misrepresenting shareholder votes. But, if he owns shares he bought legally (there's no way he bought 50% of his company though) then he should have the right to vote. Unless he is using stolen/free/issued/unpaid-for shares to act against the best interests of paying shareholders... In that case please post whatever you have to the scam accusation thread above. You and Ian obviously have some history going back to GLBSE, I'm loathe to delve into all that, but I will read your post. Here he's simply voted with maintenance shares that plainly had no vote, and ironically on a motion that would have passed anyway. The problem is the precedent that it's set, since at any time he can create a motion and pass it without shareholders even having a voice. Nobody has an issue with Ian voting his own 20% + whatever he's purchased however he pleases, but the 30% of shares reserved for maintenance do not get to negate a paying shareholder's vote. I'm not prepared to call him a scammer, I still hope he'll do the right thing. I'm just surprised he's beating down his own company's market cap and spooking his shareholders over something so easily rectified. Ian, create a motion that would require maintenance shares be returned to treasury prior to shareholder votes. If it passes write it into the contract and I'll feel better about holding Bakewell shares long term and I'm sure others would as well. Alternatively you could offer to do away with maintenance shares altogether and simply withhold a portion of dividends to pay expenses, the effect would be the same, but the risk of you overriding shareholder votes with a 50% +1 vote would be removed. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on December 27, 2012, 06:34:11 AM Ian is ripping me off. Here's the scam accusation thread. Please weigh in there: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133362.0 I did not know that Ian was also under fire for other stuff like misrepresenting shareholder votes. But, if he owns shares he bought legally (there's no way he bought 50% of his company though) then he should have the right to vote. Unless he is using stolen/free/issued/unpaid-for shares to act against the best interests of paying shareholders... In that case please post whatever you have to the scam accusation thread above. You and Ian obviously have some history going back to GLBSE, I'm loathe to delve into all that, but I will read your post. Here he's simply voted with maintenance shares that plainly had no vote, and ironically on a motion that would have passed anyway. The problem is the precedent that it's set, since at any time he can create a motion and pass it without shareholders even having a voice. Nobody has an issue with Ian voting his own 20% + whatever he's purchased however he pleases, but the 30% of shares reserved for maintenance do not get to negate a paying shareholder's vote. I'm not prepared to call him a scammer, I still hope he'll do the right thing. I'm just surprised he's beating down his own company's market cap and spooking his shareholders over something so easily rectified. Ian, create a motion that would require maintenance shares be returned to treasury prior to shareholder votes. If it passes write it into the contract and I'll feel better about holding Bakewell shares long term and I'm sure others would as well. Alternatively you could offer to do away with maintenance shares altogether and simply withhold a portion of dividends to pay expenses, the effect would be the same, but the risk of you overriding shareholder votes with a 50% +1 vote would be removed. That's a fair summary of what happened. The motion legitimately passed anyway. Don't make a motion to move development shares - make a motion to get rid of them (existing ones retuirned to treasury and no more issed). Just put 30% of revenue into development fund then distribute rest - and in future it would be 20 management shares issued for every 50 normal ones sold - they were unneeded just to work out what 30% was: a calculator can be used to do that. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: creativex on December 27, 2012, 10:06:21 PM You've set a precedent alright and trust once lost can be difficult to regain. The shares in question do not belong to you, they belong to the company, IOW they belong to all shareholders collectively. By treating those shares as though they were your own personal shares to vote you've proven you cannot or will not honor that distinction. You simply cannot negate the vote of a shareholder with a G&M share they own in part as well.
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: LoweryCBS on December 28, 2012, 04:10:51 AM I could even be persuaded to vote towards a contract change where those shares must vote abstain. It is apparent that this is a good idea -- Let's make it happen. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: creativex on December 28, 2012, 04:28:42 AM I could even be persuaded to vote towards a contract change where those shares must vote abstain. It is apparent that this is a good idea -- Let's make it happen. Not good enough. There is no proof that those shares are being voted any particular way. I suggested they be returned to the treasury because then anyone can see that the shares outstanding has been reduced. I'm saddened that you've chosen to go this route Ian. I'll be selling my remaining shares...likely at a loss. I no longer trust you. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Charles Bass on December 28, 2012, 07:11:42 AM I am against this way...
If you going this way Ian, it will be better you close bakewell, sell all the Staff an payout any shareholder... The problem is, Shares doesnt had a mind, so they cant vote for there self! Only the guy who owns the shares can vote becouse he has shares. But who owns M&G Shares? Yes the Company Bakewell owns this share, but no to vote! these shares are only for a better organization. These shares are here that the company get some Bitcoins if dividend were payed! The M&G Share are property of Bakewell to get cash, but not that you can vote what you want! And i own Bakewell Shares, so a part of Bakewell an all the property of Bakewell is also my property! Ian, you work against your shareholders. Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company -> is a Lie It sholud be more like this: "Give a Canadian your money and let him do what he want in a untransparent & money burning company" Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on December 28, 2012, 04:02:02 PM 2012-12-27 12:30 ฿ 1.20253119 5700 0.00021097 1500 * 0.00021097 = BTC0.316455 received on growth and maintenance Sorry, a little late today, was hard to anticipate earnings and schedule the div due to the diff change, and I had some personal things to attend to this morning. ---- A share is a share, they are all equal, period. While I may entertain the idea of figuring out a way to control the G&M interest (board of directors usually steers something like that right) to ease fear of me "51% attacking" the company (which is ridiculous in bitcoin land, why bother holding votes if I am going to be malicious. Much easier to just turn scammer and do whatever the hell I want. Same results either way.) & I could even be persuaded to vote towards a contract change where those shares must vote abstain. (It was actually me who asked burnside to implement the "abstain" button on the vote, and I came damn close to using it.) I wanted to set a precedent. I will not handicap a share. (.... Unless you want to make the 30k G&M class A and the remainder class B non vote. I mean ... if we are going to handicap, why not go that way?) While at the moment we have an excess of ipo shares and the dividends on G&M shares are contracted to the growth fund so they appear to just be a lazy way to split divs, I anticipate those shares becoming extremely important to BAKEWELL down the road. The distribution is as it is and a share is a share. Simple question: Who owns those shares? Is it: a) The company b) Ian Bakewell Here's a clue: B) isn't the right answer. They are NOT the same as other shares. If the company closes down, assets are sold and proceeds distributed do they get part of that? If so, what happens to it? If they did get distribution it would become part of the assets to be distributed and have to be shared out again (and again, and again). Those shares don't own equity - they're just a device to set aside funds. Vague crap about "they'll be important in the future" is just that - vague crap. There won't be a "down the road" unless you start getting your act together and doing the stuff that needs doing like fixing the contract, working out a valuation for current assets (you won't be able to sell new shares if they're priced way above what assets are backing current shares - that may not be case of course), getting rid of the growth shares so new investors aren't put off by you appearing to control a massive chunk of voting power that you never bought etc. Oh - and working out a plan to go forward. ASICMINER's chips arrived from the foundry yesterday. They could well be mining within a few weeks. Strangely this could actually be GOOD news for you so long as you get your act together within a few months (it's bad news for any mining company that has pre-orders on ASICs). Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: strello on December 28, 2012, 04:41:08 PM There won't be a "down the road" unless you start getting your act together and doing the stuff that needs doing like fixing the contract, working out a valuation for current assets (you won't be able to sell new shares if they're priced way above what assets are backing current shares - that may not be case of course), getting rid of the growth shares so new investors aren't put off by you appearing to control a massive chunk of voting power that you never bought etc. Oh - and working out a plan to go forward. Agreed. These are exactly the issues that need addressing NOW. Ian, you are demonstrating extraordinary arrogance and disregard for your investors with your comments such as: *shrug*..... .....Bad news, then tank shares, and you all come into MY thread screaming... A share is a share, they are all equal, period..... ....The distribution is as it is and a share is a share. You have to realise now that your shareholders are important to you and the survival of the company. Please address these issues as soon as possible: Fix the contract- it's a mess and out of date. Publish the current valuation of equipment. Fix the growth shares issue- they should not have a vote, even if you believe they belong to you. And please let us know what the future plan is, as clearly none of the 1800 shares from the second tranche are going to sell any time soon. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: creativex on December 28, 2012, 04:46:19 PM The shares are equitable and owned by me. They are considered considered active for growth and maintenance with the dividends received on them contracted to the expansion of the BAKEWELL company after covering BAKEWELL expenses. So Ian Bakewell's stake in BAKEWELL is actually 50% of outstanding shares + whatever he's purchased on the market? Everytime 5 shares of bakewell were sold an equal portion was given to Ian Bakewell FOR FREE? That is not what BAKEWELL's contract says. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on December 28, 2012, 05:19:51 PM The shares are equitable and owned by me. They are considered considered active for growth and maintenance with the dividends received on them contracted to the expansion of the BAKEWELL company after covering BAKEWELL expenses. wrong answer. Contract includes: "My compensation will be received as dividends on my 20,000 shares " It doesnt' say "My compensation will be received as dividends on 20,000 of my 50,000 shares" - so it clearly defines the number of shares you own as being 20,000. Nor does it say "My combensations will the dividends on the 20,000 founders shares and the equity of all founders shares and growth shares." A case could be made that by defining your compensation as you did, you aren't even entitled to the equity of founder's shares (any benefit you receive without paying for it is compensation). I wouldn't personally argue that harshly. I suggest if you hold to that line that you start liquidating now - as for sure you won't sell any more shares. But i'm guessing you already know that and are trying to grab as much as you can whilst hoping noone will notice you thieving. Can't stop you thieving obviously - but can make sure everyone knows about it if you do (assuming the RL info you've provided is real). Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Charles Bass on December 28, 2012, 05:23:34 PM The shares are equitable and owned by me. They are considered considered active for growth and maintenance with the dividends received on them contracted to the expansion of the BAKEWELL company after covering BAKEWELL expenses. Sorry you are wrong, you own 20%, bakewell 30 And we 50... Otherwise you Lie And brake your contract! Contract: The shares will be released on a 5 : 3 : 2 schedule For every 5 shares sold to the public, 3 will be considered active for growth and maintenance, and 2 will be sent to my personal portfolio. This will keep the percentages proportional to funds raised while we grow Atm i think you want that everyone sell und you Run with the Equipment if nobody is left.. Look like Scam, you changed your mind much After des GLBSE Shutdown.. This was the First try to run... Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: bitcoinbear on December 29, 2012, 05:24:14 AM Why are there shares for growth and maintenance? Profit should just be multiplied by 0.7 and the remaining 30% sent to a publicly announced bitcoin address for safe keeping. Since these shares are owned by the company, they should not vote, or they should at least vote how the rest of the shares vote for them to vote (now that is getting a bit complicated). They should in no way ever be represented as being owned by Ian, they are owned by the company. Which is just silly, why would a company own itself?
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Monster Tent on December 29, 2012, 05:24:39 AM The shares are equitable and owned by me. They are considered considered active for growth and maintenance with the dividends received on them contracted to the expansion of the BAKEWELL company after covering BAKEWELL expenses. Quoted for blatant scamming. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: usagi on December 29, 2012, 01:36:19 PM The shares are equitable and owned by me. They are considered considered active for growth and maintenance with the dividends received on them contracted to the expansion of the BAKEWELL company after covering BAKEWELL expenses. Quoted for blatant scamming. Just open a scam accusation forum thread against him. I have one up here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133362.0), which deals with a separate issue against him. You should pursue your grievances there IMO. I think by now it's pretty obvious he scammed his investors in multiple ways. A good scam accusation thread will clearly lay out the evidence and suggest a remedy by which Ian can perform some action to avoid a scammer tag. I don't think he deserves a scammer tag "no matter what", I think there is still time for him to fix this. But I am not responsible for making that decision.. just weighing in. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Evolvex on December 31, 2012, 03:36:40 PM Dividend has been paid. I am having some issues with the 50btc pool last night and this morning, getting huge amounts of rejects, etc... It cost us some loot :( So I switched over to BTC Guild for the time being, back up and running well :) And to make up for the downtime I threw in a bit from my pocket. Then I figured what the hell... I'll double it up to BTC3.2 - 'tis the season you know 2012-12-24 10:59 ฿ 3.2 5700 0.00056140 1500 * 0.00056140 = BTC0.8421 received on growth and maintenance Ian, just catching up a little - I haven't received any dividend, where was this sent? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on December 31, 2012, 03:40:19 PM Dividend has been paid. I am having some issues with the 50btc pool last night and this morning, getting huge amounts of rejects, etc... It cost us some loot :( So I switched over to BTC Guild for the time being, back up and running well :) And to make up for the downtime I threw in a bit from my pocket. Then I figured what the hell... I'll double it up to BTC3.2 - 'tis the season you know 2012-12-24 10:59 ฿ 3.2 5700 0.00056140 1500 * 0.00056140 = BTC0.8421 received on growth and maintenance Ian, just catching up a little - I haven't received any dividend, where was this sent? On BTC.CO. Most likely the email to you from them ended in your spam folder. There'll be an email detailing an account created for you on BTC.CO - if you log into it you'll find your shares (and dividend payment). You can then either continue using that account or make a new one and transfer the shares/BTC to it. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: usagi on December 31, 2012, 05:39:47 PM Yes, please look in your email / spam folder for an email from btct.co (the addy you used with the glbse) with login info for a throwaway account that was created for you. This account should hold your shares and any received dividends. Please PM me if you are having difficulty and I will sort you out :) Well, you pretty much knew who we were on your asset list, since we were one of your largest shareholders with a well-known number of shares. You're probably going to continue to deny we were on your list and there's no way for me to prove we were. In fact you now must, for if you go back on what you gave burnside it will be an instant case of fraud and there would be no way for you to avoid a scammer tag over it. That's very unfortunate for BMF shareholders. You will be the sole case out of 20, the only one who is denying our claim. Actually not sure about Diablo either, he hasn't responded to me on the status of our claim yet. We'll see what happens when he lists on bitfunder. But you... sheesh Ian, I supported you, and what you did to me in turn was extremely dirty. In fact I think you pushed a little too hard, almost to the point where it becomes a wonder why you turned against me so hard. It was you, remember, who broke the contract and threatened to lie about me if I did not follow your demands... I guess this is my punishment? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on December 31, 2012, 06:49:45 PM Yes, please look in your email / spam folder for an email from btct.co (the addy you used with the glbse) with login info for a throwaway account that was created for you. This account should hold your shares and any received dividends. Please PM me if you are having difficulty and I will sort you out :) Well, you pretty much knew who we were on your asset list, since we were one of your largest shareholders with a well-known number of shares. You're probably going to continue to deny we were on your list and there's no way for me to prove we were. In fact you now must, for if you go back on what you gave burnside it will be an instant case of fraud and there would be no way for you to avoid a scammer tag over it. Have you tried emailing nefario? That would be the obvious place to start. It's a shame nefario is too incompetent to send lists of what they held to investors - as it would clear up a lot of issues for a lot of people (right now, plenty of people still don't have a clue what shares they hold in what) as well as providing some initial evidence if an asset issuer tries to scam. Also - were your shares on sale (and, if so, have you checked the last GLBSE transacations to see if there were total Bakewell sales late in GLBSE's life large enough to have been yours)? Barring a cockup by nefario or the shares having been sold one of the two of you is pretty clearly scamming. No way for me to know which (as there's no public records of what assets BMF had shortly before GLBSE went down and afaik you made no statement about them afterwards) but I'd definitely like to know which - as obviously if Ian then I need to value his shares down from where they presently are (about half IPO price as he's said he intends to steal 30% of assets if the company closes and vote with shares he doesn't own) and make sure anyone he deals with (here, on Second Life etc) knows that not only does he SAY he'll steal, but actually HAS stolen. As it stands, there's no way for anyone other than you two to make a convincing accusation against the other one on this issue - whichever of you is wronged is probably going to need nefario's cooperation (and then one or more exchange operators' cooperation) to make a convincing case. Diablo's list of shareholders for DMC should be imported in next few days - so you'll find out then if he's allocating you shares. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: usagi on December 31, 2012, 08:33:44 PM Well, you pretty much knew who we were on your asset list, since we were one of your largest shareholders with a well-known number of shares. You're probably going to continue to deny we were on your list and there's no way for me to prove we were. In fact you now must, for if you go back on what you gave burnside it will be an instant case of fraud and there would be no way for you to avoid a scammer tag over it. That's very unfortunate for BMF shareholders. You will be the sole case out of 20, the only one who is denying our claim. Actually not sure about Diablo either, he hasn't responded to me on the status of our claim yet. We'll see what happens when he lists on bitfunder. But you... sheesh Ian, I supported you, and what you did to me in turn was extremely dirty. In fact I think you pushed a little too hard, almost to the point where it becomes a wonder why you turned against me so hard. It was you, remember, who broke the contract and threatened to lie about me if I did not follow your demands... I guess this is my punishment? You have made a scam accusation and I have responded here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133362.msg1421301#msg1421301). Please continue this discussion in that thread. You mean like how you stuck to the scam accusation forums all those times you took potshots against me in the securities forum? Not only did you defraud CPA and it's investors by backing out of a contract with a no cancellation clause, and threatening to lie about me in PM if I didn't give you the money (in opposition to the contract, which said give it to your shareholders) I really believe you are now trying to rip off BMF shareholders as well. You knew we were the only person on the list with ~430 shares. It was a well known fact, since we published the number and you mentioned it yourself -- we were the only shareholder who voted against the motion to cancel the CPA contract. So you knew. When you gave burnside the lists, did you forward the message from Nefario or did you just attach a .yml file? Burnside said I was not on the list. The question now is if you fraudulently edited the list or if you gave burnside a proper list. Sure, I will post this on the scam accusation forum but.. how you say... "7: you are a dirtbag piece of shit and I happily tell others my opinion of you Smiley" -Ian Bakewell Nice going, ripping off your shareholders on the CPA contract, ripping off shareholder votes in the recent motions, ripping off CPA lying about your financial position, ripping me off by trying to blackmail me in PM, and now ripping off BMF. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Evolvex on December 31, 2012, 10:00:00 PM Dividend has been paid. I am having some issues with the 50btc pool last night and this morning, getting huge amounts of rejects, etc... It cost us some loot :( So I switched over to BTC Guild for the time being, back up and running well :) And to make up for the downtime I threw in a bit from my pocket. Then I figured what the hell... I'll double it up to BTC3.2 - 'tis the season you know 2012-12-24 10:59 ฿ 3.2 5700 0.00056140 1500 * 0.00056140 = BTC0.8421 received on growth and maintenance Ian, just catching up a little - I haven't received any dividend, where was this sent? On BTC.CO. Most likely the email to you from them ended in your spam folder. There'll be an email detailing an account created for you on BTC.CO - if you log into it you'll find your shares (and dividend payment). You can then either continue using that account or make a new one and transfer the shares/BTC to it. Thanks, I cant find anything, shall PM you Ian. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Evolvex on January 01, 2013, 10:11:10 PM Dividend has been paid. I am having some issues with the 50btc pool last night and this morning, getting huge amounts of rejects, etc... It cost us some loot :( So I switched over to BTC Guild for the time being, back up and running well :) And to make up for the downtime I threw in a bit from my pocket. Then I figured what the hell... I'll double it up to BTC3.2 - 'tis the season you know 2012-12-24 10:59 ฿ 3.2 5700 0.00056140 1500 * 0.00056140 = BTC0.8421 received on growth and maintenance Ian, just catching up a little - I haven't received any dividend, where was this sent? On BTC.CO. Most likely the email to you from them ended in your spam folder. There'll be an email detailing an account created for you on BTC.CO - if you log into it you'll find your shares (and dividend payment). You can then either continue using that account or make a new one and transfer the shares/BTC to it. Thanks, I cant find anything, shall PM you Ian. So people know - this is resolved now, dividends and shares are now allocated on btc-tc. Cheers Ian. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: creativex on January 02, 2013, 09:34:50 PM Umm...I'm a little slow, does this mean that Ian Bakewell just got 500 MORE votes? ...or 700 more votes?
One could make the case that you're intentionally tanking this security to buy cheaper shares. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on January 02, 2013, 10:06:43 PM Umm...I'm a little slow, does this mean that Ian Bakewell just got 500 MORE votes? ...or 700 more votes? One could make the case that you're intentionally tanking this security to buy cheaper shares. 500. What he did was that with some of the money that had been raised by selling shares he bought some back - then the difference between .15 and what he paid for them he added to G&M. It PROBABLY increases the value of the remaining shares - no way to tell without a valuation of the hardware's current value (as G&M/private shares werent taken for the 200 bought back there's been no undue dilution). It represents a change in his policy of when he allocates G&M/personal shares - but that was never in the contract anyway and I don't see it as unreasonable. It didn't buy them himself - so it's only helped him if he intends the company to keep running (if he were trying to collapse it then last thing he'd do is buy any back which raises price and reduces cash on hand). Obviously claiming the G&M shares belong to him rather than the company is still as delusional as ever: but I'm fairly optimstic he'll see sense on that as the buying back would make no sense otherwise. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: bitcoinbear on January 03, 2013, 06:15:16 AM BAKEWELL took advantage of the current market and bought back 200 on the market shares today. 200 * .15 = 30 , however we were able to purchase them back for 22.23 The remaining BTC7.77 was sent to our growth and maintenance fund BAKEWELL then balanced in Ian and Growth & Maintenance against the 500 sold shares in the tranche. 300 additional shares are considered active for Growth & Maintenance (now totalling 1800) and 200 were sent to Ian's personal portfolio. This tranche will be labelled the "transitional tranche" and is now closed. BAKEWELL now has 6000 Shares outstanding. Share sales are suspended until a new system for raising capital and balancing in is determined and put in place. I might be confused here, but if the number of outstanding shares goes down (because the company bought them back), then shouldn't the number of founders' shares also go down, not up ?!?!? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on January 03, 2013, 06:28:08 AM BAKEWELL took advantage of the current market and bought back 200 on the market shares today. 200 * .15 = 30 , however we were able to purchase them back for 22.23 The remaining BTC7.77 was sent to our growth and maintenance fund BAKEWELL then balanced in Ian and Growth & Maintenance against the 500 sold shares in the tranche. 300 additional shares are considered active for Growth & Maintenance (now totalling 1800) and 200 were sent to Ian's personal portfolio. This tranche will be labelled the "transitional tranche" and is now closed. BAKEWELL now has 6000 Shares outstanding. Share sales are suspended until a new system for raising capital and balancing in is determined and put in place. I might be confused here, but if the number of outstanding shares goes down (because the company bought them back), then shouldn't the number of founders' shares also go down, not up ?!?!? No. On that he's correct. He'd only previously allocated shares for the first 2500 sold (1000 founder, 1500 growth). Until now he'd only be doing it after 2500 were sold. What he did here was buy back 200 then allocate based on the remaining 500 (previously 700) sold. The contract never obliged him to allocate shares so far in arrears - so there's nothing wrong with that. And it does make sense given that there'll likely be no new sales for a fair while. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: burnside on January 04, 2013, 01:03:32 AM Trading of BAKEWELL on btct.co has been halted. BAKEWELL is in the process of moving to BitFunder.com (https://bitfunder.com/). Please prepare to claim your shares on that platform. I apologize for any inconvenience. We are thankful for btct.co extending help to us during the glbse fiasco, they have a great team and make a wonderful platform. Best of luck on the new exchange. I'm a little bummed to see you go, but mostly just wish you'd given some warning so anyone that didn't want to move over could sell their shares first. :-\ Cheers. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: usagi on January 04, 2013, 01:13:58 AM Trading of BAKEWELL on btct.co has been halted. BAKEWELL is in the process of moving to BitFunder.com (https://bitfunder.com/). Please prepare to claim your shares on that platform. I apologize for any inconvenience. We are thankful for btct.co extending help to us during the glbse fiasco, they have a great team and make a wonderful platform. Please reconsider what is going on here. This is a new situation -- an experiment. No policy which has been tested is in place on what to do in this situation. 1. I propose that there be a 90 day (THREE MONTH) period where any asset which drops below five votes can still trade and operate before halting. 2. Remedy for scams: if it drops below zero then it should be halted/frozen. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: burnside on January 04, 2013, 01:27:08 AM Please reconsider what is going on here. This is a new situation -- an experiment. No policy which has been tested is in place on what to do in this situation. 1. I propose that there be a 90 day (THREE MONTH) period where any asset which drops below five votes can still trade and operate before halting. 2. Remedy for scams: if it drops below zero then it should be halted/frozen. As Ian mentioned. The asset was locked by Ian, not by the exchange. Negative ratings do not (directly) result in de-listing. Cheers. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Charles Bass on January 04, 2013, 08:37:05 AM Holy shit, you doing everything alone without any announcement!
Thats horrible, and the Fucking WeeX didnt work, so i cant pay in or out.. One of the worst companies on the market with communication :( Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on January 04, 2013, 08:49:09 AM To clarify: BAKEWELL was not kicked off btct.co (although at this time we do have a negative peer approval) Moving to BitFunder (https://bitfunder.com/asset/BAKEWELL) was a decision made by myself and I have been working with Ukyo on it for sometime :) I like btct.co and will use it as a trader. I think they are a great platform, and the relationships they hold in the altcoin community could prove invaluable for some assets. Looking into the future with BAKEWELL however, and considering the exchange integration BitFunder has with weex (and taking a gamble on where I see them positioning themselves in the market long term), it seems like a better fit for us. Glad to hear there's solid reasons for the move - otherwise people may have suspected it was just to avoid having negative remarks showing up on the asset. Could you expand a bit on how integration with weex is a benefit? I trade on both Bitfunder and BTC.CO - and always viewed weex as just being an annoying extra step I had to go through whenever I want to deposit/withdraw funds. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: JordanL on January 04, 2013, 09:10:23 AM Simple transfer of my shares over to bitfunder, and so far I've done two BTC transfers through wex to buy more shares. So far so good.
I like both bitfunder and btc-tc. Both great platforms with huge potential, I hope they succeed and grow. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Charles Bass on January 04, 2013, 09:46:53 AM Simple transfer of my shares over to bitfunder, and so far I've done two BTC transfers through wex to buy more shares. So far so good. I like both bitfunder and btc-tc. Both great platforms with huge potential, I hope they succeed and grow. Always if i try to Login on weex i get the Error: Could not connect to 2nd stage server... Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: btcash on January 04, 2013, 10:48:05 AM Thanks for the warning. I never would have purchased any shares/dumped all my shares if I knew that you would move to BF.
Quote Glad to hear there's solid reasons for the move - otherwise people may have suspected it was just to avoid having negative remarks showing up on the asset. Did I miss something? Weex is not a solid reason at all. He had the worst rated asset on BTCT. That is why he moved.Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on January 04, 2013, 11:25:48 AM Thanks for the warning. I never would have purchased any shares/dumped all my shares if I knew that you would move to BF. Quote Glad to hear there's solid reasons for the move - otherwise people may have suspected it was just to avoid having negative remarks showing up on the asset. Did I miss something? Weex is not a solid reason at all. He had the worst rated asset on BTCT. That is why he moved.Heh, sarcasm never comes across clearly on the internet - sorry. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: btcash on January 04, 2013, 11:39:58 AM Thanks for the warning. I never would have purchased any shares/dumped all my shares if I knew that you would move to BF. Quote Glad to hear there's solid reasons for the move - otherwise people may have suspected it was just to avoid having negative remarks showing up on the asset. Did I miss something? Weex is not a solid reason at all. He had the worst rated asset on BTCT. That is why he moved.Heh, sarcasm never comes across clearly on the internet - sorry. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: strello on January 04, 2013, 11:56:40 AM I too am angry and disappointed about yet another arrogant stunt by Ian Bakewell, and really wish I had never invested.
I don't like Bitfunder, especially for their insistence on all sorts of personal information, and have no wish to do business with them. But I have been forced to without being asked or even notified. As for the title of this thread (from Merriam- Webster): Definition of EQUITABLE 1: having or exhibiting equity : dealing fairly and equally with all concerned Definition of TRANSPARENT d : characterized by visibility or accessibility of information especially concerning business practices There has been none of either of these qualities shown by Bakewell recently, and no signs whatsoever of growth, or even any sort of future planning. In the light of your extreme disregard for your shareholders, and if you really believe there is a future for Bakewell, I think you should immediately offer to buyback shares at somewhere near the IPO price from anyone who is dissatisfied by your kamikaze behaviour. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: bitcoinbear on January 04, 2013, 03:56:02 PM Thanks for the warning. I never would have purchased any shares/dumped all my shares if I knew that you would move to BF. Quote Glad to hear there's solid reasons for the move - otherwise people may have suspected it was just to avoid having negative remarks showing up on the asset. Did I miss something? Weex is not a solid reason at all. He had the worst rated asset on BTCT. That is why he moved.Heh, sarcasm never comes across clearly on the internet - sorry. I totally missed the sarcasm and was totally confused :( I guess this has the benefit of showing how easily assets can be moved between exchanges now? I just hope this does not become a fad, it will be hard to keep track of everything if people start jumping between exchanges all willy-nilly. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Evolvex on January 04, 2013, 07:04:39 PM Cheers for the heads up Ian, I like how seamlessly transfer from btc-tc to bitfunder seemed to go, no probs getting my shares at all.
Hopefully you wont have to move again however. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on January 04, 2013, 07:12:48 PM Thanks for the warning. I never would have purchased any shares/dumped all my shares if I knew that you would move to BF. Quote Glad to hear there's solid reasons for the move - otherwise people may have suspected it was just to avoid having negative remarks showing up on the asset. Did I miss something? Weex is not a solid reason at all. He had the worst rated asset on BTCT. That is why he moved.Heh, sarcasm never comes across clearly on the internet - sorry. I totally missed the sarcasm and was totally confused :( I guess this has the benefit of showing how easily assets can be moved between exchanges now? I just hope this does not become a fad, it will be hard to keep track of everything if people start jumping between exchanges all willy-nilly. Yeah, at the moment BTC.CO has the only built-in system that allows moves quite so swiftly (asset issuer gets email address + number of shares). But I'm sure BitFunder/Crypto would provide equivalent information if requested - purely because to refuse to do so would deter anyone else going there. They both already have a means for identifying investors - just not quite so straight-forward to use. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Ukyo on January 04, 2013, 07:54:57 PM Simple transfer of my shares over to bitfunder, and so far I've done two BTC transfers through wex to buy more shares. So far so good. I like both bitfunder and btc-tc. Both great platforms with huge potential, I hope they succeed and grow. Always if i try to Login on weex i get the Error: Could not connect to 2nd stage server... Ah hah! I take full responsibility for this. There was a space in the username that was uncaught. The handling of it has been corrected. Thanks Charles for helping me find that! :) -Ukyo Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: burnside on January 06, 2013, 07:49:13 AM Ian, why do you keep deleting and re-posting the same thing over and over? Every time you do that it re-emails everyone your posts... it's fairly annoying...
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on January 06, 2013, 08:07:12 AM Ian, why do you keep deleting and re-posting the same thing over and over? Every time you do that it re-emails everyone your posts... it's fairly annoying... He's always done that - same as every time he does anything he makes a new locked thread and keeps bumping it to top of forum. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: btcash on January 06, 2013, 11:18:12 AM Ian, why do you keep deleting and re-posting the same thing over and over? Every time you do that it re-emails everyone your posts... it's fairly annoying... He did the same thing with the last motion. He did it for days to get everyone to vote on his fake motion. It was more than ridiculous.Good luck luring newbies to Bakewell. Only a fool or a newbie would buy shares. "Guys look I am important!" Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Charles Bass on January 09, 2013, 08:43:53 PM 1. The M&G Shares cant vote and nobody can vote with them.
2. a Supervisory Board elected from the shareholder check and allow expenses and investments! greets chuck Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: bitcoinbear on January 09, 2013, 11:08:38 PM 1. The M&G Shares cant vote and nobody can vote with them. 2. a Supervisory Board elected from the shareholder check and allow expenses and investments! greets chuck +1 Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on January 10, 2013, 07:53:54 PM I am not personally against just considering the shares inert, but I want to make sure the decision is well reasoned. Are there any regular wall st examples of how this should be done? There's no such examples - as no regular company puts aside shares just to calculate what 30% of revenue is. I've still to hear any reasoning on why those shares need to exist at all - what is it they allow the company to do that it couldn't do without them? What benefit do they offer to compensate for the mess they make of voting? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: bitcoinbear on January 11, 2013, 05:30:44 AM 1. The M&G Shares cant vote and nobody can vote with them. I agree not voting would make things easier and it seems to be what people want. but, why? Why should these shares abstain and the fund not have an input, especially considering the next suggestion of creating a board. Shouldn't this board use the voting power to help steer the company? I am not personally against just considering the shares inert, but I want to make sure the decision is well reasoned. Are there any regular wall st examples of how this should be done? 2. a Supervisory Board elected from the shareholder check and allow expenses and investments! greets chuck Assuming we decide to go down this route, how do you guys think we could effectively create a board with the tools available to us in bitcoin land here? I agree with Deprived, there is no reason for these shares to exist. Any uses of the growth fund should be passed by a shareholder vote. Instead of having a "board" of the largest shareholders, have a board consisting of all shareholders. Have shareholders join in meetings held in IRC or somewhere. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Charles Bass on January 11, 2013, 08:04:44 AM The Supervisory Board should not be a replacement for Shareholder Votings or Motions.
Its a control committee for finance, bakewell and ian. For exmaple before ian buy hardware or buy shares back he has to commit the Supervisory Board... its time to make Bakewell more attractive and realy transparent! And the M&G Shares are only to organize the payments for m&g, you could also cut of 30% and pay the rest out as divident... greets Chuck Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on January 15, 2013, 05:53:05 PM Why should these shares abstain and the fund not have an input, especially considering the next suggestion of creating a board. Shouldn't this board use the voting power to help steer the company? I didn't properly address this. Shares don't vote (or abstain). Share-holders vote. Those shares have no ownership so no vote (there's noone with the entitlement to vote with them). In the same way treasury shares don't vote. They could be considered as belonging to the fund as a whole - in which case their voting should reflect the desire of the fund as a whole (i.e. all other votes). But in that case them voting only reinforces a decision already made - and adds nothing to the voting process. There wouldn't be anything wrong in principle with a board voting with those shares - but then you get into the messy situation of how the board votes: and making sure that control of the company can't be obtained by a minority of shareholders who get to control board votes. In practice it's too large a chunk of votes to give control to a small board without effectively removing all voting power from normal shareholders. Boards should make recommendations, shareholder approve those recommendations. The person (or group) making a proposal shouldn't also be given the power to enact it. Still not heard ANY explanation of what useful function those shares offer. Some while back there was some vague "they'll be useful in the future" type comment - but with no attempt to define that usefulness (and, more specifically, why it needs shares to exist) at all. You can keep dodging that issue all you want - but the most significant answer to your latest question ("How do we sell more shares?") lies in providing the transparency and equity the topic of the thread claims. So either explain how those shares benefit investors or get rid of them (the shares, not the investors). Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: btharper on January 17, 2013, 04:47:57 AM One other thing that has popped into my mind while preparing to rewrite the description for BAKEWELL is how bakewellfund makes use of BTC it holds. I imagine that any investments made would need to be very secure. While the requirement may not be to make any large sum, it should be expected that it should not depreciate, if that can be assured to some level then I wouldn't imagine an issue. Though unless a general consensus can be made about the level of risk (that is inherent in investing) it may be best to leave each investment up to a (admittedly tedious) motion requiring some given percent of support (possibly above 51%). It may simply be best to let this extra funds sit in a published address; simple to audit and no depreciation.Any rule suggestions on how to go about purchasing new equipment, making investments with idle coin, how to deal with monthly expenses should they begin to incur, etc etc New equipment purchases seem like something that should be done from the G&M portion of proceeds, determining which hardware gets bought may be up for discussion and likely depends on what's available at the time of purchase. Hopefully this will be simplified by the time any additional hardware purchases are needed. It was my impression that a portion of your personal shares were to cover operational expenses. Is this not the case? Etc etc should probably be elaborated on, and now's a good time to do it, though I can't think of anything else to add personally. It may also be a good time to enumerate what can and can't be done with respect to certain issues that have come up previously, at least including voting of G&M shares and transfer to different exchanges (both with and without closure of the existing exchange). Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: tulkos on January 31, 2013, 02:56:57 AM Now that it has been confirmed that an Avalon ASIC has shipped and is working will we be making an ASIC purchase soon?
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Peter Lambert on January 31, 2013, 04:09:57 AM Now that it has been confirmed that an Avalon ASIC has shipped and is working will we be making an ASIC purchase soon? That sounds like a good use for the growth fund. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: strello on February 02, 2013, 10:55:02 AM Has Bakewell stopped paying dividends?
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: wisard on February 02, 2013, 12:54:56 PM Seems like the last dividend was paid on 28 Jan - so its still paying dividends.
Would love to know the plan moving forward however... when and how it'll purchase ASIC mining equipment... Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Charles Bass on February 02, 2013, 01:20:34 PM Has Bakewell stopped paying dividends? No, One of the best Thing is the Dividend payout. Its every Time prompt... Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Peter Lambert on February 02, 2013, 04:59:17 PM How much is currently in the growth fund? Is it enough to buy one of the Avalon asics?
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on February 02, 2013, 07:09:05 PM I do not know if any of you are aware of a user here at bitcointalk, organofcorti (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=14118) , but they are an analyst/math type who's posts have always intrigued me. Anyhow, here is some interesting reading material they just put out regarding expected ASIC returns: http://organofcorti.blogspot.ca/2013/02/98-asic-choices-avalon-update.html Those results are in line with what I'd estimated - that only those getting very early ASICs will really make bank on them. In his graphs by late batch 2 the Avalons will be struggling to pay for themselves. And he doesn't seem to have even counted ASICMINER's haspower in (should be 12 TH/s coming online in next few weeks and the production run of chips for a much of bigger batch has already started). Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Peter Lambert on February 02, 2013, 08:40:31 PM What is up with the bid order 1 satoshi less than the lowest ask order? Did somebody mean to lower the ask but accidently put in a buy instead?
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on February 02, 2013, 09:00:48 PM What is up with the bid order 1 satoshi less than the lowest ask order? Did somebody mean to lower the ask but accidently put in a buy instead? There's someone around do does that a bit on Bitfunder and BTC.CO. I'd guess they're a GLBSE refugee who hasn't realised the fee structures are different. GLBSE had a maker/taker structure - where the person filling the order paid the whole fee. So there it made sense if you wanted to buy in a tight range to bid 1 satoshi under ask and wait for it be filled - rather than actually fille the order (you saved yourself 0.4% in fees). Fees don't work like that on Bitfunder (or BTC.CO) but maybe this guy doesn't know that? That's my guess anyway. Either that or someone trying to force the price up (i.e. someone with an Ask up) without actually buying any (haven't looked - but if it's a very low quantity bid that could be the case). Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: wisard on February 12, 2013, 10:56:28 AM Hi,
I invested in Bakewell a few days back because I like what I've read on this thread. I like the fact that you took a short term loan instead of issuing new equity for that 20btc. However, if the loan terms are too bad, I can help. (I don't know what "shark tank deal" means - does that mean we received a sweet deal, or was the loan giver the shark?) I have 20 bitcoins I can loan out - with 0.1BTC total interest, without a time frame (so its not 0.1BTC interest per month - its total interest whether the loan is repaid in 1 day or 6 months). The only criteria being the loan has to be paid before dividends are restarted (which you seem to be already offering to the current loan giver.) Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: wisard on February 12, 2013, 02:16:57 PM However that brings me to the need of working out a better system for offering new shares to the market. Things I am thinking about are: Private sales worked well, I do not want to put up a huge ask and cap upward movement, how to determine price to offer at, how many to put up on offer at a time, when to go about balancing in, etc... Here is what I would do: 1. I believe that existing shareholders should be given the first right of refusal to maintain their position in the company. I should be given the chance if I want to maintain ownership of x% of the company or not. So take an average of the stock price over the last X days and discount it by 15%. And determine the number of shares Bakewell will need to sell for further growth - based on that price. And then send an email to the existing share holders offering them the first right to buy shares equivalent to their current position at that rate. For eg: if I own 60 shares (1% of the company) - and 3000 more shares are issued - I should be given an option to buy 30 more shares at the determined discounted price. 2. For any shares that haven't been sold yet, you make an "auction". Where people can list the price they will be willing to buy the shares at. And you let existing share holders know about this auction before others. Let the market determine the price. I dislike the idea of creating an Ask wall with new equity. Because this screws the existing share holders who want to sell (as it happened to Satoshi Dice shares this past few days.) Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: wisard on February 12, 2013, 02:33:09 PM One other thing that has popped into my mind while preparing to rewrite the description for BAKEWELL is how bakewellfund makes use of BTC it holds. Any rule suggestions on how to go about purchasing new equipment, making investments with idle coin, how to deal with monthly expenses should they begin to incur, etc etc Investing in other companies on bitfunder or other marketplaces is too volatile. And not as liquid as we would want. So investing idle coin elsewhere is a bad idea. If we have a surplus, then the best investment is buying back stocks. What we should ideally do is have this goal: 30% dividend that G&M earns should pay for 1 new hardware every month (and eventually buy 1 new hardware during every dividend payment). Until we reach that stage, we could make use of loans to meet the goal. And then every 3 months, sell new stock to pay these loans off. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Charles Bass on February 13, 2013, 10:35:11 AM Someone calculated how high the dividend per Share will be if the asics arrive?
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Peter Lambert on February 20, 2013, 05:27:32 PM Ian,
When do you estimate dividends will resume? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: nameface on February 20, 2013, 06:25:03 PM Why do you choose 50btc pool?
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: bitcoinbear on February 20, 2013, 09:18:34 PM We have paid back BTC7.92 so far and continue to pay with 2600mhash x 50btc.com pps rate So you have paid back 7.92 btc in 18 days, or .44 btc/day leaving 12.08 btc which at that rate should be paid back in about 28 days which would put us somewhere around march 20th, correct? This will, of course, be affected by any increase of difficulty caused by all the other ASICs coming onto the network, or if we get the ASICs we ordered, correct? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: nameface on February 23, 2013, 09:18:50 PM We have paid back BTC7.92 so far and continue to pay with 2600mhash x 50btc.com pps rate So you have paid back 7.92 btc in 18 days, or .44 btc/day leaving 12.08 btc which at that rate should be paid back in about 28 days which would put us somewhere around march 20th, correct? This will, of course, be affected by any increase of difficulty caused by all the other ASICs coming onto the network, or if we get the ASICs we ordered, correct? It'll be slower than this. The rig should be earning 0.35 BTC per day at best. 12 BTC to go = ~34 days, maybe a few more days due to difficulty increase. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Peter Lambert on February 23, 2013, 10:16:14 PM What is the plan for the old rig once the new one arrives?
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: wisard on February 28, 2013, 06:40:00 AM Hi Ian,
Was part of promoter's stake sold? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: usagi on February 28, 2013, 07:54:18 AM Ian, When do you estimate dividends will resume? I was wondering the same thing, I once again find myself with a stake in BAKEWELL. When will dividends resume now that the ASICs have been paid for? Edit: Ahh, found this: Dividends are currently suspended. I was preparing to order the Avalon ASIC on the morning of the 31st... The total of the funds raised from the transitional tranche alongside the growth fund brought us up to just over BTC130 ...I could use 75 to order one box, and sit on the rest... or I could take a loan to kick us up to 150 and order two. I found a shark tank deal for a BTC20 loan. To repay this loan BAKEWELL will direct 100% of its hashpower to our creditor @ 50btc pps rates against our debt until the BTC20 is paid back. Once the initial BTC20 is paid back BAKEWELL regains its hashpower and will resume dividends on the regular schedule. Then the BTC received on the growth fund will be forwarded to our creditor for a short time in order to cover their profit for the loan. I guess then that's what you meant by BTC7.92 paid back. Hmm, at ~0.31/day thats gonna be 35-40 more days. So essentially not until the ASICs arrive :/ Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: iCEBREAKER on March 09, 2013, 12:55:14 AM Hi Ian,
Do you ever check to see if y/our 7970s are more profitably used for altchains? 7970s have very fast memory, a feature utilized only by scrypt. I check http://dustcoin.com/ daily to optimize my returns. Sometimes LTC and NVC are much more lucrative than BTC. This will become even more important as ASICs drive up BTC difficutly. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: usagi on March 09, 2013, 04:26:31 AM Ian I know this thread isn't regarding your loan but you locked your loan thread.
You're three days overdue on your BTCjam loan, and now one full day overdue on your promise to pay according to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=146689.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=146689.0). I'll be honest I was suspicious due to the large amount of money and shares you had borrowed from the community. It looked like a cash out. The comments on BTCjam state that you intended to pay on the 8th (yesterday) but that time has come and gone. Due to the large amount of money you've borrowed would you mind providing an update on this the next time you log in? Thanks. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on March 09, 2013, 04:34:31 AM Ian I know this thread isn't regarding your loan but you locked your loan thread. You're three days overdue on your BTCjam loan, and now one full day overdue on your promise to pay according to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=146689.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=146689.0). I'll be honest I was suspicious due to the large amount of money and shares you had borrowed from the community. It looked like a cash out. The comments on BTCjam state that you intended to pay on the 8th (yesterday) but that time has come and gone. Due to the large amount of money you've borrowed would you mind providing an update on this the next time you log in? Thanks. I'm not seeing anywhere in that thread that he intended to make any payments on March 8th. I'm reading that he didn't intend to start paying back until the end of the month. "Payment schedule as follows: March 1- borrow 600 March 8- owe 621 March 15- owe 642.735 March 22- owe 665.230725 March 29- owe 688.5138 / 8 = 86.0647 payment = 602.4491 leftover" No payment until March 29th - where do you see in that thread him saying he'll pay anything on 8th? I was about as suspicious as you about all the loans he's taking (and borrowing things to 'short', some of which it's basically impossible to short - e.g. BTC-BOND) but not seeing how we was expected to make any payment yet. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on March 09, 2013, 04:39:06 AM BTCJAM was never a good platform for setting up dates / repayments.
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: MPOE-PR on March 09, 2013, 01:09:06 PM BTCJAM was never a good platform for setting up dates / repayments. Heh. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: foggyb on March 09, 2013, 06:31:12 PM My contract with Ian stipulates interest payments to begin in April. So its a little early to be panicking just yet.
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on March 10, 2013, 03:30:28 AM My contract with Ian stipulates interest payments to begin in April. So its a little early to be panicking just yet. +1, however doesn't charge a 5% late fee or something if you're late by over 5 days? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: potato5491 on March 15, 2013, 05:51:20 PM Furthering my Bitcoin experimentation, I now own a mighty pair of shares in BAKEWELL. Having never purchased shares before I am quite enjoying the experience.
Good luck Ian. I should add that the BitFunder site is well designed. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: wisard on March 20, 2013, 02:01:44 PM On the bright side, after a hell of an interesting / nail biting morning... I think I was successful in placing an order for two Avalon ASIC (#2 batch) and I think I should be in the first handful of those orders. Do we know how high up are we in the order list? Avalon announced that they will be taking a break in the middle of the batch #2 delivery. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155345.msg1647013#msg1647013 Quote 3, The shipment time of batch #2: Our team needs a vacation after months of day-and-night hard work, and we need time to summarize previous work, deal with issues and prepare the improvement of the future work. Further more, it takes time to produce the large amount of improved parts. So, the shipment of #2 will be delayed. Only a small amount of units will be shipped during late March to early April, but we will ship the batch #2 units in a super fast speed during middle Apirl to the end of Apirl. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: wisard on March 26, 2013, 04:58:49 AM Part of the 1800 shares held in reserve for growth and maintenance seem to have been sold.
There is no account owning 1800 shares of Bakewell anymore... https://bitfunder.com/assetlist Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: nameface on March 26, 2013, 05:48:24 AM Ian may have sold shares to raise capital for growth and maintenance.
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: wisard on March 26, 2013, 05:55:11 AM Ian may have sold shares to raise capital for growth and maintenance. May be. We won't know until he comments. Last time, he had taken a loan when 20BTC was short to purchase the 2nd Avalon - instead of selling growth shares. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on March 26, 2013, 06:12:02 AM Ian may have sold shares to raise capital for growth and maintenance. May be. We won't know until he comments. Last time, he had taken a loan when 20BTC was short to purchase the 2nd Avalon - instead of selling growth shares. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on March 26, 2013, 09:41:59 AM Doesn't look good - was about to post on this myself. Noticed someone had dumped a bunch so immediately checked to see if it was Ian (he'd been selling his own ones before).
Looks very much like he's borrowing (stealing) from the company. Hopefully it's to repay his loans not to do a runner - though it's still theft of course. It can't really be to expand - as even if he sold the lot into what orders are left there wouldn't be enough cash to buy an Avalon. Anyone want some Bakewell shares that just got sold to me cheap? Lol. Silly thing is if the company keeps going the shares are actually very cheap considering they have a Batch 2 Avalon order. So I'm not too fussed about just getting dumped a bunch of them - as the significant risk he was going to scam/steal was always factored in when I placed the bid. Though wasn't expecting him to dump Growth shares - was more expecting him to dump rest of his personal (if he has any left) or some panicky investor to sell cheap. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: potato5491 on March 26, 2013, 12:53:40 PM I am... Outta here! Got cold feet and just sold my puny stake.
Knowing my luck though the next post will be a picture of Ian standing next to a mountain of shiny Avalons... Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Justin00 on March 26, 2013, 01:22:01 PM lol
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: MPOE-PR on March 26, 2013, 03:57:16 PM Doesn't look good - was about to post on this myself. Noticed someone had dumped a bunch so immediately checked to see if it was Ian (he'd been selling his own ones before). Looks very much like he's borrowing (stealing) from the company. Hopefully it's to repay his loans not to do a runner - though it's still theft of course. It can't really be to expand - as even if he sold the lot into what orders are left there wouldn't be enough cash to buy an Avalon. Anyone want some Bakewell shares that just got sold to me cheap? Lol. Silly thing is if the company keeps going the shares are actually very cheap considering they have a Batch 2 Avalon order. So I'm not too fussed about just getting dumped a bunch of them - as the significant risk he was going to scam/steal was always factored in when I placed the bid. Though wasn't expecting him to dump Growth shares - was more expecting him to dump rest of his personal (if he has any left) or some panicky investor to sell cheap. This "growth shares" nonsense has to go. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Deprived on March 26, 2013, 04:34:45 PM Doesn't look good - was about to post on this myself. Noticed someone had dumped a bunch so immediately checked to see if it was Ian (he'd been selling his own ones before). Looks very much like he's borrowing (stealing) from the company. Hopefully it's to repay his loans not to do a runner - though it's still theft of course. It can't really be to expand - as even if he sold the lot into what orders are left there wouldn't be enough cash to buy an Avalon. Anyone want some Bakewell shares that just got sold to me cheap? Lol. Silly thing is if the company keeps going the shares are actually very cheap considering they have a Batch 2 Avalon order. So I'm not too fussed about just getting dumped a bunch of them - as the significant risk he was going to scam/steal was always factored in when I placed the bid. Though wasn't expecting him to dump Growth shares - was more expecting him to dump rest of his personal (if he has any left) or some panicky investor to sell cheap. This "growth shares" nonsense has to go. Yeah - though if they didnt exist assume he would have just sold treasury ones instead. Whatever's going on, he's obvious desperate for cash (when BTC rose sharply last few days thought he'd be in trouble as he'd been borrowing BTC to invest in something fiat). Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Peter Lambert on March 26, 2013, 05:18:30 PM This "growth shares" nonsense has to go. We keep saying that, but I don't think Ian is listening. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Justin00 on March 27, 2013, 09:14:12 PM so how much you all get screwed over for this time ?
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: MPOE-PR on March 27, 2013, 11:19:20 PM so how much you all get screwed over for this time ? I guess about 500 BTC? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: nameface on March 27, 2013, 11:32:19 PM so how much you all get screwed over for this time ? I guess about 500 BTC? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on March 28, 2013, 12:09:58 AM so how much you all get screwed over for this time ? I guess about 500 BTC? He's not technically in default yet, I'm going to try and contact him Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: wisard on March 28, 2013, 06:58:19 AM so how much you all get screwed over for this time ? I guess about 500 BTC? He's not technically in default yet, I'm going to try and contact him With his BTCjam loan and other loans - and interest on those loans, 3000 Bakewell shares (1800 growth shares, 1200 promoter shares - although he hasn't sold all of them yet), and the S.Dice shares he loaned to short, I would estimate it to ~1150 BTC. On top of that, he has 2 Avalons coming to him. But he hasn't defaulted yet. His first tranche for his loan payments is 29 March. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: Justin00 on March 28, 2013, 08:17:05 AM .
Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: strello on March 30, 2013, 08:23:36 PM But he hasn't defaulted yet. His first tranche for his loan payments is 29 March. Any news on this?? Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: fourd00rgtz on March 30, 2013, 09:38:58 PM I know a guy who drives through Edmonton every couple weeks (truck driver) He could easily see if there are any shiny new cars parked out at his address. Then again, Ian knows he put all his info out there, if he is a scammer I'd hope he's smart enough to move (weren't his pics of an apartment?)
Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: Evolvex on April 01, 2013, 11:21:54 PM So has Ian done a runner?
Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: zapeta on April 01, 2013, 11:29:26 PM So has Ian done a runner? Apparently so. He's deleted the content of his first post. I saved his contact stuff a while back, I figured we might need it when he took off with no contact the first time. Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: btcash on April 01, 2013, 11:38:40 PM Luckily I dumped all my shares when he moved to Bitfunder.
I think this is Bitfunders first official scam. Someone already collected all public information about Ian: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150830.msg1606156#msg1606156 Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: LoweryCBS on April 01, 2013, 11:39:41 PM He hasn't replied on Skype, email or answered any calls on his phone. It doesn't matter what we think of him, this indicates that he's a scammer. We'll definitely know on the 29th. But, you don't have to be in the dark for that long, it's our money and we deserve to know what's going on. Here's his information (which he provided or was publicly available) to contact him. Original Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=146689.0 Profile: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=63614 Pictures: http://imgur.com/a/V85SV Ian James Bakewell Suite 408 9903 104 ST NW Edmonton, Alberta (It's downtown.) Google Maps: http://goo.gl/maps/dnqrB Here's his face: https://i.imgur.com/4uPiJnx.jpg He's 27 years old, born Jan-24-1986 and about 6'2" or more tall. Residence: Hillside Estates Edmonton Alberta Website: https://sites.google.com/site/hillsideestatescondominium/ (there's info to contact the on-site manager) Email: ian.bakewell@gmail.com Phone: +1 587 989 8448 Skype: ian.james.bakewell Twitter: https://twitter.com/IanBakewell Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ianbakewell LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ibakewell Google Plus: https://plus.google.com/109173548399743645280/posts Blogger: http://ianbakewell.blogspot.ch/ Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/user/ianbakewell Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/ianbakewell Domain (old, unregistered now): http://www.ianbakewell.com Litecoin Forum Profile: http://forum.litecoin.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=c9v582e1933cup1ftkl3clej11&action=profile;u=7744 Google Buzz: https://profiles.google.com/109173548399743645280/buzz Google Reader: http://www.google.com/reader/shared/Ian.Bakewell Ventrino Forum: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:MMKGhX55uacJ:www.ventrino.com/forums/index.php%3Fshowuser%3D1945+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ch Aff Funnel Forum: http://www.affiliatefunnel.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=10083&sid=b4f5f23cb37b3b6fc7be6ff9d99a0375 Bitcoin Address: 1MT2nwTUkGvNMcrbB3Pi18cowNSd1UDjgU His "Bakewell" mining operation: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=104489.0 https://btct.co/security/BAKEWELL https://bitfunder.com/asset/BAKEWELL Edmonton Police, Downtown Devision Website: http://www.edmontonpolice.ca/ContactEPS/EPSPoliceStations/DowntownDivision.aspx Google Maps (shows closest stations): http://goo.gl/maps/TQADZ People that know him: His girlfriend (unknown) and... Robin Bouwhuis (831061) Landmetersweg 27 Den Helder, 1785 HA, NL Website: http://www.dutchgeek.com/ Bio: http://www.dutchgeek.com/about-me/ Email: robin@dutchgeek.com Whois: http://whois.domaintools.com/dutchgeek.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/Robin_Bouwhuis Second Twitter: https://twitter.com/DutchGeek Face: https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/77823256/robin2_100x100.jpg Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DutchGeek Another website (he & Ian owned): http://whois.domaintools.com/easysurfexchange.com Proof of association: https://twitter.com/Robin_Bouwhuis/status/1204937543 http://archive.aweber.com/tonytezak/11IpN/t/EasySurfExchange_New_Co_owner_.htm His girlfriend's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jenell.sale (https://www.facebook.com/jenell.sale) Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: filharvey on April 02, 2013, 01:27:03 AM He hasn't replied on Skype, email or answered any calls on his phone. It doesn't matter what we think of him, this indicates that he's a scammer. We'll definitely know on the 29th. But, you don't have to be in the dark for that long, it's our money and we deserve to know what's going on. Here's his information (which he provided or was publicly available) to contact him. Original Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=146689.0 Profile: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=63614 Pictures: http://imgur.com/a/V85SV Ian James Bakewell Suite 408 9903 104 ST NW Edmonton, Alberta (It's downtown.) Google Maps: http://goo.gl/maps/dnqrB Here's his face: https://i.imgur.com/4uPiJnx.jpg He's 27 years old, born Jan-24-1986 and about 6'2" or more tall. Residence: Hillside Estates Edmonton Alberta Website: https://sites.google.com/site/hillsideestatescondominium/ (there's info to contact the on-site manager) Email: ian.bakewell@gmail.com Phone: +1 587 989 8448 Skype: ian.james.bakewell Twitter: https://twitter.com/IanBakewell Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ianbakewell LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ibakewell Google Plus: https://plus.google.com/109173548399743645280/posts Blogger: http://ianbakewell.blogspot.ch/ Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/user/ianbakewell Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/ianbakewell Domain (old, unregistered now): http://www.ianbakewell.com Litecoin Forum Profile: http://forum.litecoin.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=c9v582e1933cup1ftkl3clej11&action=profile;u=7744 Google Buzz: https://profiles.google.com/109173548399743645280/buzz Google Reader: http://www.google.com/reader/shared/Ian.Bakewell Ventrino Forum: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:MMKGhX55uacJ:www.ventrino.com/forums/index.php%3Fshowuser%3D1945+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ch Aff Funnel Forum: http://www.affiliatefunnel.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=10083&sid=b4f5f23cb37b3b6fc7be6ff9d99a0375 Bitcoin Address: 1MT2nwTUkGvNMcrbB3Pi18cowNSd1UDjgU His "Bakewell" mining operation: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=104489.0 https://btct.co/security/BAKEWELL https://bitfunder.com/asset/BAKEWELL Edmonton Police, Downtown Devision Website: http://www.edmontonpolice.ca/ContactEPS/EPSPoliceStations/DowntownDivision.aspx Google Maps (shows closest stations): http://goo.gl/maps/TQADZ People that know him: His girlfriend (unknown) and... Robin Bouwhuis (831061) Landmetersweg 27 Den Helder, 1785 HA, NL Website: http://www.dutchgeek.com/ Bio: http://www.dutchgeek.com/about-me/ Email: robin@dutchgeek.com Whois: http://whois.domaintools.com/dutchgeek.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/Robin_Bouwhuis Second Twitter: https://twitter.com/DutchGeek Face: https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/77823256/robin2_100x100.jpg Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DutchGeek Another website (he & Ian owned): http://whois.domaintools.com/easysurfexchange.com Proof of association: https://twitter.com/Robin_Bouwhuis/status/1204937543 http://archive.aweber.com/tonytezak/11IpN/t/EasySurfExchange_New_Co_owner_.htm His girlfriend's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jenell.sale (https://www.facebook.com/jenell.sale) Come on yes go after him but posting his girlfriends link???? I think that is uncalled for. Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: Pharaoh on April 02, 2013, 02:27:40 AM Robin Bouwhuis is a dude, he definitely not Ian's girlfriend.
Come on yes go after him but posting his girlfriends link???? I think that is uncalled for. I don't condone doxing others, but he owes close to $80,000. If someone owed me that kind of money and wouldn't return my calls then I would call up all of their friends and associates to try and get a hold of them. Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on April 02, 2013, 03:12:22 AM He hasn't replied on Skype, email or answered any calls on his phone. It doesn't matter what we think of him, this indicates that he's a scammer. We'll definitely know on the 29th. But, you don't have to be in the dark for that long, it's our money and we deserve to know what's going on. Here's his information (which he provided or was publicly available) to contact him. Original Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=146689.0 Profile: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=63614 Pictures: http://imgur.com/a/V85SV Ian James Bakewell Suite 408 9903 104 ST NW Edmonton, Alberta (It's downtown.) Google Maps: http://goo.gl/maps/dnqrB Here's his face: https://i.imgur.com/4uPiJnx.jpg He's 27 years old, born Jan-24-1986 and about 6'2" or more tall. Residence: Hillside Estates Edmonton Alberta Website: https://sites.google.com/site/hillsideestatescondominium/ (there's info to contact the on-site manager) Email: ian.bakewell@gmail.com Phone: +1 587 989 8448 Skype: ian.james.bakewell Twitter: https://twitter.com/IanBakewell Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ianbakewell LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ibakewell Google Plus: https://plus.google.com/109173548399743645280/posts Blogger: http://ianbakewell.blogspot.ch/ Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/user/ianbakewell Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/ianbakewell Domain (old, unregistered now): http://www.ianbakewell.com Litecoin Forum Profile: http://forum.litecoin.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=c9v582e1933cup1ftkl3clej11&action=profile;u=7744 Google Buzz: https://profiles.google.com/109173548399743645280/buzz Google Reader: http://www.google.com/reader/shared/Ian.Bakewell Ventrino Forum: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:MMKGhX55uacJ:www.ventrino.com/forums/index.php%3Fshowuser%3D1945+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ch Aff Funnel Forum: http://www.affiliatefunnel.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=10083&sid=b4f5f23cb37b3b6fc7be6ff9d99a0375 Bitcoin Address: 1MT2nwTUkGvNMcrbB3Pi18cowNSd1UDjgU His "Bakewell" mining operation: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=104489.0 https://btct.co/security/BAKEWELL https://bitfunder.com/asset/BAKEWELL Edmonton Police, Downtown Devision Website: http://www.edmontonpolice.ca/ContactEPS/EPSPoliceStations/DowntownDivision.aspx Google Maps (shows closest stations): http://goo.gl/maps/TQADZ People that know him: His girlfriend (unknown) and... Robin Bouwhuis (831061) Landmetersweg 27 Den Helder, 1785 HA, NL Website: http://www.dutchgeek.com/ Bio: http://www.dutchgeek.com/about-me/ Email: robin@dutchgeek.com Whois: http://whois.domaintools.com/dutchgeek.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/Robin_Bouwhuis Second Twitter: https://twitter.com/DutchGeek Face: https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/77823256/robin2_100x100.jpg Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DutchGeek Another website (he & Ian owned): http://whois.domaintools.com/easysurfexchange.com Proof of association: https://twitter.com/Robin_Bouwhuis/status/1204937543 http://archive.aweber.com/tonytezak/11IpN/t/EasySurfExchange_New_Co_owner_.htm His girlfriend's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jenell.sale (https://www.facebook.com/jenell.sale) Come on yes go after him but posting his girlfriends link???? I think that is uncalled for. I don't expect anything, but maybe Avalon could change the shipping address of the ASICs in his name. Title: Re: {Bakewell} Get an equitable stake in a transparent & growing mining company Post by: iCEBREAKER on April 02, 2013, 03:37:18 AM Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: Pharaoh on April 02, 2013, 05:02:37 AM He stole $80k. I don't expect anything, but maybe Avalon could change the shipping address of the ASICs in his name. There is no way that Avalon will get involved. They have a contract with Ian, if Avalon fails to deliver on their contract then they could be sued by Ian. Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: fourd00rgtz on April 02, 2013, 05:42:24 AM Ring ring,
Hello thank you for calling DHL .....and it's gone Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on April 02, 2013, 05:48:41 AM He stole $80k. I don't expect anything, but maybe Avalon could change the shipping address of the ASICs in his name. There is no way that Avalon will get involved. They have a contract with Ian, if Avalon fails to deliver on their contract then they could be sued by Ian. Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: Deprived on April 02, 2013, 06:49:08 AM He stole $80k. I don't expect anything, but maybe Avalon could change the shipping address of the ASICs in his name. There is no way that Avalon will get involved. They have a contract with Ian, if Avalon fails to deliver on their contract then they could be sued by Ian. Nah they didn't. Someone TRIED to involve them and they basically said "Not interested - we're sending to the original address entered when the order was made." They can't start deciding to change where they send orders because of disputes they aren't involved in. Much as I'd love to see Bakewell get his come-uppance, it won't be Avalon who do it. Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: iCEBREAKER on April 09, 2013, 07:31:59 PM Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: strello on April 09, 2013, 08:08:18 PM Great pic, iCEBREAKER!
But seriously, wtf is going on??? Ukyo, you must be monitoring this thread. You allowed that Bakewell slimeball onto your exchange after jumping ship from burnside, and now all Bitfunder has to say about the current situation is "Asset is currently frozen." I think you owe all his shareholders a bit more of an explanation than that. Who froze the Asset- him or you? What's the next move? Do you have any contact with him, or has he, as I'm sure most of us now suspect, disappeared off the edge of the bitcoin world? I still hold quite a lot of shares, even though I've managed to dump a lot at a big loss since he moved to Bitfunder, so I'm very interested in any attempts at any recovery. We, the shareholders, own the Bakewell equipment, including the Avalon orders. Surely there is something that can be acheived with Avalon if we contact them as a group?? And then there are all the dividends owed since he decided to stop paying them months back without any vote or even notice. It would be great to get an update here from Wisard and TradeFortress, as they look to be the biggest losers here. I guess he has run away from you too? Come on guys, let's not just sit back and let another creep get away with it! Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: nameface on April 09, 2013, 08:11:52 PM Great pic, iCEBREAKER! But seriously, wtf is going on??? Ukyo, you must be monitoring this thread. You allowed that Bakewell slimeball onto your exchange after jumping ship from burnside, and now all Bitfunder has to say about the current situation is "Asset is currently frozen." I think you owe all his shareholders a bit more of an explanation than that. Who froze the Asset- him or you? What's the next move? Do you have any contact with him, or has he, as I'm sure most of us now suspect, disappeared off the edge of the bitcoin world? I still hold quite a lot of shares, even though I've managed to dump a lot at a big loss since he moved to Bitfunder, so I'm very interested in any attempts at any recovery. We, the shareholders, own the Bakewell equipment, including the Avalon orders. Surely there is something that can be acheived with Avalon if we contact them as a group?? And then there are all the dividends owed since he decided to stop paying them months back without any vote or even notice. It would be great to get an update here from Wisard and TradeFortress, as they look to be the biggest losers here. I guess he has run away from you too? Come on guys, let's not just sit back and let another creep get away with it! +1 I have a lot at stake as well. Bakewell assets should be ours, and Bitfunder owes us an explanation. I'm on board to petition Avalon. They have all the evidence they need to credit us those pre-orders. Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: strello on April 09, 2013, 08:15:10 PM Thanks for the support nameface!
Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: superbit on April 09, 2013, 09:26:59 PM Why is this thread closed?
Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: nameface on April 09, 2013, 09:37:05 PM Why is this thread closed? It's not, it's called closed because the scammer who started the thread renamed it.Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: nameface on April 09, 2013, 09:56:46 PM Thanks for the support nameface! So what's the next move? I think we can get the bitcoin community behind us here.Who should we contact? I know this guy is involved in Avalon http://www.linkedin.com/in/yifuguo (http://www.linkedin.com/in/yifuguo). Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: strello on April 10, 2013, 12:10:48 AM Great place to start!
We need some more names behind any approach. Please, Bakewell shareholders, and any others in the community with an interest in deterring this and future scamming, NOW is the time to make yourselves heard. Express your support for approaching Avalon here and now. Or come up with any other suggestions. Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: usagi on April 10, 2013, 03:32:09 AM Great place to start! We need some more names behind any approach. Please, Bakewell shareholders, and any others in the community with an interest in deterring this and future scamming, NOW is the time to make yourselves heard. Express your support for approaching Avalon here and now. Or come up with any other suggestions. The Usagi plan: 1. Immediately, we need to appoint an interim director of BAKEWELL. Everyone propose someone or someone volunteer. We then run a shareholder motion. 2. With the authorization of the shareholder motion, this person can contact Avalon and have BAKEWELL's orders rerouted. 3. The BAKEWELL problem is solved for the short and medium term. For people who were ripped off via loan/etc: 1. Contact an Edmonton lawyer and state you need representation for small claims court. 2. Mention amounts in dollars only -- although bitcoin is a currency deal with it as the way you transferred the money to Ian, not the central theme of the case. 3. Don't forget that he bought hardware in dollars with the money you sent him. This isn't a fantasy monopoly money case. Tell them he took the hardware and disappeared. 4. Also try contacting an Edmonton-based PI. You can probably get them to find out where Ian is for as little as a bitcoin at today's rates. Just say you want them to confirm his location and you want "a picture". That should run you a bitcoin if you can provide his info (posted here) and you will be able to get a lot more info on him like where he works, friends and associates -- information which will be valuable in any (legal) social campaign to recover the money. Make sure you share the info here and on the scam accusation forum so the information is available to any employment or background check search for Ian or any of his associates. Now, if anyone is serious about going after him, you should work together. Designate a leader for your group who will act on your behalf, and actually put up a little money for this. Say if you get 10 people, each put up a bitcoin or two. You will certainly get somewhere with a well-run organization like that. I've considered forming some kind of group or company like a bounty hunter company to go after people like Ian. HashKing is another one that needs to be chased after legally. But it will never happen unless people start organizing and realizing that it does cost money to hire a lawyer. Don't be afraid to do this. If the case is clear cut, and there are witnesses, you are almost assured a judgement esp. in canadian small claims court. And I strongly suspect that dragging someone into the public eye like this (the story WILL get picked up by the press) will probably be enough to get someone to pay. FWIW Ian only owes me a very small amount of money, probably not enough for me to get involved. I am just saying this and trying to help out because I think he deserves to get hog-tied and repeatedly bitch-slapped. But if no one does anything with the police or an Edmonton lawyer he will probably get away with it. We especially need someone local to Ian to represent and run this. It would be so much easier if a Canadian, especially someone from Alberta or Edmonton, could step up and guide us through this. Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: fourd00rgtz on April 10, 2013, 05:41:23 AM I am only out ~10btc (damnit that's $2k+ today), but I do live in Calgary AB and drive to work through (more like around on the ring road) Edmonton on my way to work south of Ft. Macmurray AB. I drive a company vehicle and carry another employee. Meaning I cannot stop for a few hours on my way through and be the P.I. that might be wanted..... My personal vehicles are also currently down for repairs so I wouldn't be helpful on days off either for a while.
Should I be the only/closest one willing to help, I'll do what I can but whats needed is someone from Edmonton (1m people) because its a 3hr drive each way for me from my place. Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: nameface on April 10, 2013, 05:45:20 AM Let's get this Avalon rerouted. Do we need to contact Bitfunder and go through them?
Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: fourd00rgtz on April 10, 2013, 06:06:14 AM Google cached version of the bitfunder page from Mar 25th.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://bitfunder.com/asset/BAKEWELL Text captured: Details BAKEWELL is an asset that originated on the GLBSE & is seeking a new home at BitFunder https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=104489.msg1498848#msg1498848 Summary 6000 shares outstanding 3000 sold to public @ .15 per (raising 450 BTC) 1800 given to growth and maintenance (bakewellfund) 1200 given to Ian Bakewell - Founders Stake Currently operating two gaming rigs (value $4000 CAD, paid 375 BTC) each being 2x7970 for a total of 2600mhash - These will be sold when our Avalon ASIC arrive. The funds raised from the sale will be used to purchase Avalon expansion modules Currently waiting on our two Avalon ASIC mining machines to arrive (value $3000 USD, paid 151.59914357 BTC) We are in the first handfull of orders in Batch #2 Description BAKEWELL is an asset that originated on the GLBSE & is seeking a new home at BitFunder https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=104489.msg1498848#msg1498848 Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: nameface on April 10, 2013, 06:11:47 AM Ok, the wheels are in motion on my end. I'll keep ya'll posted.
Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: fourd00rgtz on April 10, 2013, 06:26:25 AM ***2 Avalons***
Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: Yogafan00000 on April 10, 2013, 01:55:09 PM Good luck, you guys, Although I have no skin in this, I seriously considered investing 6 months ago.
Don't let this creep get away with it. Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: iCEBREAKER on April 10, 2013, 06:20:02 PM Great work you guys! I knew Officer Pond would get the testosterone/aggression/motivation flowing. :D
So who is going to camp out on Bakewell's doorstep and sign for the Avalons (using the docs he kindly provided of course)? ;D Or might it be easier to "prove" you're Bakewell to Avalon and have them re-routed? :P Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: nameface on April 10, 2013, 06:52:50 PM Or might it be easier to "prove" you're Bakewell to Avalon and have them re-routed? :P We can go this route. We need to talk to someone at Bitfunder now. Who's in charge there? Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: LoweryCBS on April 10, 2013, 07:14:59 PM Of course, in a couple of hours Ian might be in-the-money on his short.
Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: strello on April 10, 2013, 07:56:56 PM Or might it be easier to "prove" you're Bakewell to Avalon and have them re-routed? :P We can go this route. We need to talk to someone at Bitfunder now. Who's in charge there? To answer that one first, Ukyo, apparently. I and others have been posting directly at him in Bitfunder threads asking for his response. So far not a word from him. This is very disappointing behaviour from the face of Bitfunder, and maybe suggests some sort of collusion in the scam. /deliberate provocation! I think that a lot of usagi's suggestions are very useful. Thanks very much to usagi and all other posters for your support here. I think part 1 is essential: 1. Immediately, we need to appoint an interim director of BAKEWELL. Everyone propose someone or someone volunteer. We then run a shareholder motion. I would love to volunteer myself, but I'm currently seriously sick in hospital, just a day out of intensive care, and just don't have the health for it right now. I only have the strength for sporadic rabble rousing, off the wall suggestions and occasional support. I believe that we might have an ideal opportunity here to: 1. Maybe get something recovered. We have to block the Avalon delivery now. There has not been anything like the idea of a shareholder takeover suggested in the Bitcoin world yet as far as I know. Now, as there is clearly massive new interest in Bitcoin, is the time. He has mismanaged this whole business from day one, we've trusted him with our money, and he has continuously treated all his shareholders like dirt. 2. I also think usagi is spot on that we need someone in Canada to contact the local authorities- police, local lawyer, and financial authorities. Any Canadians out there who can get this in motion, and soon. fourd00rgtz- can you do any of this stuff? A slush fund is probably a very good idea. 3. Publicise the scam as widely as possible. Maybe helping the future scam deterrent factor, helping the whole bitcoin community. 4. Publicly humiliate this little creep, and attempt to shut down as much as possible of his online life. As much negative info as possible should be posted to as many places and people which may have any interest in him. Friends, if any, family, acquaintances fom the past and any of his other areas of interest, second life etc. I am surprised about the lack of response so far from ex-Bakewell shareholders. I wonder if the thread title change has confused people. I think we should start a new thread in Securities with Bakewell in the title. Something like "Bakewell scam recovery/ shareholder takeover/ scam deterrence. Call for support from shareholders and the community" Crap title, eh? I've just seen LoweryCBS's comment as I went to post this. Yep, anything's possible, but all the signs so and a huge chasm of silence smells very bad to me. Do we really want to wait for his short gamble to pay off, just to let him fuck us over again? Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: strello on April 11, 2013, 02:55:36 PM The Bakewell Scam story continues over here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=172471.0 And it's starting to get interesting... Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: strello on April 22, 2013, 10:40:34 AM To Ian Bakewell.
Ian, on April 1st, 2013, you froze the Bakewell asset on Bitfunder, telling Ukyo that you would be contacting and dealing with the shareholders to quote from your skype conversation with Ukyo: "I will be dealing with the company through the forum from now on." Not one of the shareholders has heard anything from you since that date. The shareholder group, now demands that you contact us to discuss the future of Bakewell. Please PM nameface, strello, wisard, MikeMark, fourd00rgtz, or scrybe, as they are the most active of the shareholders online. We demand you respond to this message before 12.00 UTC Wednesday April 24th 2013. If you don't respond by that time, we will be taking further steps to recover funds and assets that you have stolen from us. This message has been posted to the original Bakewell thread, and emailed to your known email address, ian.bakewell@gmail.com. Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: Peter Lambert on April 22, 2013, 06:25:08 PM Could a moderator rename this thread? The current title, "Closed", is not very descriptive, it should go back to the previous title.
Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: nameface on April 22, 2013, 06:25:40 PM Could a moderator rename this thread? The current title, "Closed", is not very descriptive, it should go back to the previous title. +1Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: Brushan on April 22, 2013, 06:36:44 PM So you all know where he lives and nobody has paid him a visit? You should set an example to other people thinking about becoming scammers.
Title: Re: CLOSED Post by: John (John K.) on April 22, 2013, 10:59:29 PM Could a moderator rename this thread? The current title, "Closed", is not very descriptive, it should go back to the previous title. +1Title: Re: SCAM IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Finally, a transparent investment that will grow! Post by: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on April 22, 2013, 11:24:51 PM Thanks John! I wonder if the forum saves previous edits.. (probably not)
Title: Re: SCAM IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Finally, a transparent investment that will grow! Post by: strello on April 23, 2013, 04:44:33 AM Thanks John, we really appreciate the name change- nice wording :)
All I have is this. Here is a wayback machine snapshot of page 2 the OP from March 5th 2013: http://web.archive.org/web/20130305010103/https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=104489.20 Title: Re: SCAM IPO [GLBSE] [Bakewell] - Finally, a transparent investment that will grow! Post by: John (John K.) on April 23, 2013, 07:35:49 AM Restored and added some comments. :P
Title: Re: SCAM IPO [Bakewell] - Finally, a 'transparent' investment that will 'grow'! Post by: strello on April 23, 2013, 05:55:53 PM Wow!!
Cool work, thanks :) Title: Re: SCAM IPO [Bakewell] - Finally, a 'transparent' investment that will 'grow'! Post by: johnny5 on April 24, 2013, 05:21:12 PM fwiw, it seems likely that Ian Bakewell canceled his prior cell phone, the one he self-dox'd, around the first week of April 2013.
The number has been resold, however, and the poor chap who own's Ians prior number is getting "a lot of calls" for Ian. The new owner of Ian's old digits, said he got the new phone number about 2 weeks ago (~ April 10th or so). Title: Re: SCAM IPO [Bakewell] - Finally, a 'transparent' investment that will 'grow'! Post by: LoweryCBS on April 24, 2013, 07:15:13 PM His girlfriend's Facebook is gone now, also: https://www.facebook.com/jenell.sale (https://www.facebook.com/jenell.sale)
Title: Re: SCAM IPO [Bakewell] - Finally, a 'transparent' investment that will 'grow'! Post by: burnside on May 06, 2013, 04:20:31 AM Or did you mean to post in this thread? ;) Title: Re: SCAM IPO [Bakewell] - Finally, a 'transparent' investment that will 'grow'! Post by: FenixPR on August 01, 2013, 09:09:04 PM The Bakewell saga continues over here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265521.0 with a success story and a new beginning! :) |
