Bitcoin Forum

I do not mean to be hateful in any way, but this system just stinks. I am totally on board with the idea that government-issued currency has got to go, and I hope Bitcoin does well.

I downloaded and installed the Bitcoin program. I then looked for a way to acquire Bitcoins.

I have spent over an hour just trying find a way to acquire Bitcoins and I have given up. I get it that the Bitcoin "first-tryers" are a knowledgeable and tech-savvy demographic, but you have made this thing too hard to figure out how to use!

I live in the United States. I have a bank account consisting of US Dollars. I want to get Bitcoins with my US Dollars. I am trying to exchange the world's most popular currency for a currency that's less than five years old, and I have yet to find any website out there that wants to make it easy for me.

I am a person of higher-than-average intelligence and I am an IT professional. I know how computers and the internet work. And, I sympathize with the goal of abolishing government money. If I cannot figure out how this system is supposed to work, then I have to wonder how many other people out there are not willing (or able) to get into the world of Bitcoins. If you're going to try to get people to accept something new (like the Bitcoin) you have to make it easy to use! I appreciate all of the hard work that has gone into setting Bitcoin up, but you have to make it digestible to the common person.

If I wanna go buy something on newegg.com, for example, I just go to the checkout, enter my debit card number and that's it! I don't have to do research in order to find out how to buy a flipping USB cable.

If anyone can address my concerns now that would be great, but otherwise, I'll come back in about 6 or 7 years, when someone has figured out a way to make getting Bitcoins easy.

No one will accept your reversible credit card or PayPal money for non-reversible bitcoins unless you prove your trustworthiness in some way. The difficulty of trading isn't a problem with Bitcoin (mostly): all non-reversible payment methods such as wire/ACH transfers are just difficult to use, and you need to use them to get bitcoins.

Pecunix is 9 years old, but it still has this problem because it is also non-reversible. In fact, Pecunix is probably even more difficult to get. Same for Liberty Reserve, though it is younger than Pecunix.

I didn't find using a wire transfer to send funds to mt. gox difficult at all. Just log on to my bank online, send the money, wait for it to appear in my mt. gox account. It's not instant, that's about the only thing that could be better.

Of course, I don't know how difficult US banks are with transfers.

The Bitcoin "system" doesn't have you getting coins as one of it's goals. If you can convince anyone with coins to send you some the system will do that in a snap. Your problem is finding something valuable to exchange. It turns out that you can cancel payment on Bitcoin purchases really easily and you need to find a way to overcome people's worry that you will do that. One way is sending a wire, another is handing cash to someone, another is building a reputation/meeting people/making friends/proving your trustworthy identity and then using PP or similar, another is selling or doing something valuable.

It's your problem and it's not that hard to solve if you want to.

edit: My tone might be too harsh. There are people trying to find better ways. CoinPal was great, but PP shut them down. Dwolla can be used to get money to MtGox. Either way it has nothing to do with tech savy. My parents fed-ex'd a bag of cash.

People are selling some bitcoins on ebay now. I don't know if ebay is going to allow this to continue long term, but if it does, that could become an easy place to buy and sell bitcoins.

If you are from the US then check this tutorial:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLvnUfHKczg

Check out my website. It's in my signature.

I bet everyone thinks that of themselves.  ::)

Depends on the view of intelligence, and in my book, intelligence is definitely not about being above, better than others in any way- quite the opposite, and even less about saying it loud.

You can try linking your bank account to dwolla and deposit to mt gox from there. https://www.dwolla.com/default.aspx
 (https://www.dwolla.com/default.aspx)
Mt Gox also has a chase bank account and if you try Keefe on #bitcoin-otc he will also help you.

Hey, it's open source ... sounds to me like you have just found a huge market niche for yourself ... get out there and set-up the best damn way in the world to trade bucks for BitCoins! ... you'll probably get stinking rich and since


it'll be easy as pie for ya, I'm shure.

Maybe the Bitcoin client should include a prominent "Get Bitcoins" button that links to a page on a Wiki for newcomers who haven't learned the ropes yet ?

The Wiki page is only editable by trusted users and should include something like "These are just *some* ways to get started in Bitcoins"

Then Country-specific sections for "I want to buy them with Direct Deposit, Paypal, Credit Card etc" - with an explanation of what issues might be faced by a newbie wanting to use PP or other charge-back able payment.

or an "I want to work for them" section with links to current bounties, job offers etc.

Perhaps also a "Spend Bitcoins" link from that page to a similair "Services offered" page ?

Many people I have spoken with seem to have trouble with the concept of having to go to a decentralised market/exchange/network of sellers and barter for their coins.   

Making it easier for those who just decided to try Bitcoin out, installed and then go "Now what ?" could be well worthwhile.

It is called the Dunning-Kruger effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect) and it appears to happen around here with quite some frequency. Pointing it out to someone is usually a good way to get into pointless arguments though.

Personally I am far too intelligent for that to happen  ;)

me too, but it is easier to play the dumb-ass, ask all kinds of noob questions, be the devil's advocates and catch the smart-asses out when the opportunity presents itself.  ;)

But putting up a title like "BitCoin is a PoS" for a topic thread in your first post is asking for permanent banishment surely .... not matter how syrupy the blather surrounding it ...?

Bank ---> Dwolla ---> MtGox ---> Bitcoins

Bitcoins aren't acquired, they are earned.

How do you earn them?
1. Mine. (Boring.)
2. Sell something useful to someone for bitcoin.
3. Exchange. (mtgox.com et al.)

Just because the internet is all about instant gratification, doen't mean bitcoin is. Unfortunately for we humans we need to earn money by participating in an economy, just is in real life.

(Dont know about you, but when I was born, some stranger didn't just walk up and hand me a fiver, it took a while.)

I am an unemployed person of lower than average intelligence.
I managed to buy bitcoins after 20ms research.

Me too. I wonder what would happen if these above average intelligence people would let us run the countries  ;D

You beat me to it!  :)

Setting up a Dwolla account, and sending a payment to another Dwolla user is the same process as Paypal, except your bank account is your only backup funding method, and not a credit card. Using paypal online is easy because you've already went through the setup process. Using a credit card online is easy but only because you've already signed up with your credit card and went through plenty more verifications and procedures than bitcoin needs.

Yes, bitcoin can be a bit difficult to get sometimes, but blame the money in your pocket for that, not bitcoin. You can't easily send cash to someone instantly unless you use a third party and those third parties need your information and time to collect funds, time to send funds, finish the transaction and so on. CCs are easy but only because you already have an account registered.

IF the world ran on bitcoin, exchanges would be faster than ever before. No waiting for funds to be deposited into your bank account, then to your online account, then to pay someone else. No overdrafts, no fees. If I was paid with bitcoins I could send money overseas to family in need within minutes of receiving my paycheck, without having to wait for a bank transfer or an outrageous Western Union fee. You know the advantages...

Furthermore if bitcoin does come to reach further popularity, and some of your family/friends/neighbors had bitcoins, well you could just trade with them. Once we reach that level, exchange won't be a problem. If I could simply step into Walmart and hand them some cash for bitcoins, things would be easy. It's still a long path to get there, though, and the ones who are willing to go through the murky grounds now will reap the benefits later.

How do you deposit using this account?

I assume you send him an email.

Paxum is another easy way to get money into mt gox.

Maybe people would find it easier if they could simply mail-order a bitcoin CD or DVD with cash in the mail and it comes with bitcoin already in its wallet?

No complicated downloading and so on, just boot your machine from the CD or if you are up for complicated stuff like installing a program, install from the CD.

-MarkM-

And yet you didn't think to Google for your answer.

MtGox, not Keefe (unless they are the same person).

Seriously, I felt much like the guy who started this thread did initially. You need to treat his feedback respectfully as it will help you tailor your products better for the end user. IT guys are often rude because they can get away with it- demand for their services is greater than supply. Businessmen (you know, your bosses) don't have that luxury. The customer is always right.  The consumer is king in the free market.

I appreciate cvramen's question.  I was thinking the same thing myself.  That's why I came to the forum and looked for this discussion.  btw, I googled the hell out of this in specific and found all the same info on what to do with your bitcoin, but no straight line to use my current financial toolbox.  I think my problem getting into this is that my preferred methods of payment are not allowed to play this game.  I found lots of great answers to cvramen's question, which was also mine.    Thanks for all the great answers.

5 minutes to go with that auction.  $70.20.

watching and waiting for eBay to cancel it...

hmmm... somebody sniped it with 4 seconds to go:  $84.66.

i wonder if eBay will continue to let these go through, now that they're selling PayPal?

Can you give me a link?I want to get my hands on some bitcoins,and since I already have an account on ebay it might be easier than mt.gox and the rest..
I cannot however find anything...Searching for "bitcoin" only gave me one result and that was to buy a discount code for 0.15BTC when purchasing at a site,searching for "BTC" will result in all sort of unrelated results like jewelery and empty DVD's,and "bit coin" will only yield results about physical coins...
Maybe ebay stopped the selling of bitcoins?It wouldn't seem far-fetched after Paypal...

the auction ended 23 minutes before your post...

Lool..Still could you give me the link to the auction?It should still work,and I just want to see the details of the transaction(How much the auction ended,how many bitcoin were on sale,how was the ebay seller making the buyer feel safe from scamming etc.)

ebay auction (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=120730682105&si=jxEAt5BqKVIfT5U93tqwDielf8s%253D&viewitem=#ht_557wt_881)

Interesting...Not sure if I would bid...The price seems to be roughly the same as MtGox but the seller doesn't fill me with confidence..

1)His feedback is only 7,which is understandable if he just created an account to sell bitcoins but
2)He offers no form of protection against scamming..I don't really know what that might be,but I suppose it wouldn't be hard to think of something to put the buyer at ease.
3)He requires some form of protection for himself in the sense that he asks me to hand out personal information if I have less that 10 feedback
4)He only ships to people in the US.I guess it's so he can actually call the person that won the bid,but he could call anyone anywhere in the world if he wanted using a VOIP service...Most have free destinations so he wouldn't even be charged,but even if he was,it would only be a short conversation...
5)By only shipping a digital good at a certain geographical area,he has limited his buyers for no reason...I'm pretty sure that someone who lives in the US can get bitcoins easier than me,and wouldn't be looking at ebay for them...

I'll keep an eye out on ebay for more of his bids,but I'm a bit skeptical about it..


EDIT:wouldn't it make more sense to have a fixed price per BTC and have the buyer select the amount he wants?

Darnit, I got excited for a moment. I thought someone created a Point of Sale terminal for Bitcoin.

Persistence usually wins out over intelligence anyway.

Well so far for me I've figured out how to start mining.

The security piece is another matter. It appears my account was hacked because of a mistake I made.

I know it was this morning and can see the payout transaction in my account and the wallet address it's going to however I'm confused about something.

Under the "Ledger" section it states....... "Every time a transaction is sent, some bitcoins are usually sent back to yourself at a new address"...

What does this mean? When I logged into my account (with slush) someone had changed my wallet address and the payment threshold. They also unchecked the box to have an email notification sent to me when a payout is made.

I notice in the ledger that the payment hasn't been made yet. I can see the block and the wallet address that someone put in my account.

Is there anything I can do about this?

Thx

This is how coins are divided up. They are saved in chunks, and when you send some coins, the chunk has to be divided, and the remainder is returned to you.

As far as your account information on slush's website being compromised, I would suggest you change your password, fix your account, and PM slush with the details immediately.

I didn't see where you could change your password.... I have messages out to slush with the details. I can see precisely which block it is and the wallet address.

Thx

the first thing you do is change your password.  then you put your own wallet address back into slush's information.

then change the payment threshold back to the way you'd like it, and re-check the e-mail notification box.

then go here:  www.dictionary.com

and look up the difference between "hacked", and stolen.

throwing words like 'hacked' around is not useful.  people like slush depend on all of us trusting their security - and they do a pretty damn fine job of it.  i'm almost sure that what you meant was you screwed up, and either gave your password to somebody you should not have trusted, or you wrote it down in the clear and somebody lifted it.  yes?

"...because of a mistake I made."

so really, your account wasn't hacked, was it?

I got some from the faucet, (but it paid
0.5 btc at the time.  Then used coinpal, built some trust.  Found othet sites, and posted some regferal links.

Correct. I put it out in the clear not knowing it was visible so it was all my fault.

I see you take it quite personally when it comes to semantics. I will certainly be more careful with my verbage.

I don't see where you can change your password but it looks like you can change your username. I've since just created a new account with new user name and new password and used different usernames and passwords for my registered workers.

Thanks and didn't mean to offend.  :-\

3 steps for US:

- Get mybitcoin.com bitcoin address to send your bitcoins to and store it online or on your mobile phone
- Get dwolla.com account to fund
- Get mtgox.com account and fund with dwolla.com account and exchange for bitcoins, voilla!

I got in on the last 15 min of ebay auction, then had to go. I thought I would get a great deal, but it went for market value.  Oh well, I'll try again.

So, wait a minute.  I thought Paypal was blocking Bitcoin purchases?  It looks like there are Linden Dollars regularly for sale on E-Bay as well.  Why aren't more people selling Bitcoins on E-Bay?

I think the main reason is the price...If you put up an auction,you don't know what the final price will be,and it might end up being less than the exchange rate...
If you put up a buy it now option,at the current exchange rate,the rate might go up and you'll end up selling your coin for less..If the price goes down,no one will want to buy from you..
Furthermore,those bitcoins have to come from somewhere..unless the seller is mining to get his bitcoins he will need to get them from MtGox or similar.And to do that he needs to pay fees which he will then have to pass on to the buyer on ebay...Thus making them cost more...And finally he might only have a certain amount of bitcoins that he might want to sell over a large period of time,to keep an eye on the rate...
That been said,I would love to see more bitcoins on ebay...

They blocked a site that bought and sold coins for PP and a guy who did a lot of transfers publicly. I don't think their policy is to hunt down individuals who trade bitcoins. And if you aren't advertising then it's hard to figure that out anyway. Well, except maybe statistically when the community is small.

Well, when you make an ebay auction, you are feeding the paypal/ebay monster. It's not very seller friendly. The buyer probably won't pay more than the current exchange rate, and you will receive much less than the current exchange rate because of paypal/ebay fees. I suppose it's marginally useful if you know how to protect yourself as a seller on ebay, but if you can do that, you are better off selling elsewhere.

The auctions are great for the buyer though, you can bid as much as you want, the seller eats the fees, and you get ebay bucks for your next purchase.

When was the last time you showed up looking to buy a financial asset and said to those using it


"How do I buy this piece of shit?"

The technology is great. it's the implementation that concerns us. You need to seriously grow up and quit getting your wittle feewings hurt.  Guys like this are our future.  They can make us wealthy if we learn to cooperate. 

No, you're not. Trust me, if you have to say it, you're not.

+1

Guys like this doofus are definitely not "our future". He thinks he intelligent and IT savvy and got his "wittle feelings" handed to him on a plate, it sounds like ... has he posted again? he was probably just a troll anyway.

The implementation is at exactly the level you would expect for a beta open source project, your concern is touching. Put up or shut on that front is all I can say. File a bug report;

"The implementation concerns us"

we'll get back to you.

2 words
mtgox
dwolla

I think it is probably better if we direct him towards nanaimo-gold for the full bitcoin customer experience.

If you want some Bitcoins, go buy a MoneyPak, I will sell you some.

I love people who say they are "IT Professionals". Like plugging in an ethernet cable is as hard as programming.

That's what he did, numbnuts- just not in the form you wanted. Bug reports come in all colors, shapes and sizes.

nice one!

no offense taken.  i have concern for the image of the major players in this project.  they're important to all of us.

Ahem...
This "over an hour" also includes searches on google :P
-------------------

LOL

Yeah, well there's this thing called an IQ test....

I knew before I posted, that some people were gonna come up with some unsympathetic posts or otherwise say some not constructive things. I think the point of saying "person of higher than average intelligence" was to emphasize the problem here. I did not come to show off or anything like that (why do *I* care what a bunch of people I don't know on some internet forum think about me?). The point I was trying to make was...

1. I know how to download a program and install it on my computer
2. I have sufficient wealth in order to be willing to take the risk of investing some of it in a new currency.
3. I sympathize with the goal of abolishing government-issued currency.

There are so many people out there that have do not even fall into *one* of the above categories. In order to get this bitcoin thing off the ground they gotta get people to want to participate. Eventually, they have to make this thing useable for a wide variety of people. I LIKE Bitcoin. I WANT Bitcoin to work.

Sorry if my original post did not make sense, but I don't know what to do other than to go to the Bitcoin forum and bring up the fact there is (or at least, there appears to be) a problem. Just remember, we want Bitcoin to succeed, and therefore, we are all on the same side. ;D
--------

Well same is true for me. I'm 24 and I've been employed for the past 7 years. I've been working at jobs where I've earned money (in the form of US Dollars)  I'm just trying to exchange some of them. And yes, I know that currency exchange is a service, and that whatever the exchange fees are, I'm willing to pay. The exchanger is doing something for somebody and deserves to be compensated. I certainly *do* want to engage in exchanges that benefit both sides and the people who do business with me should earn something for whatever they're doing for me.

As a matter of fact, I just bought some Shire Silver (http://shiresilver.com/) a few days ago. I gave the company some US Dollars, and they gave me gold and silver that fits in my wallet. The amount of US Dollars I gave them was more than the actual US Dollar value of gold and silver, because I'm paying not only for the gold/silver, but the service of cutting and packaging the gold/silver into a specific form, shipping it to me, and any other costs associated with that business.
-----------

Good to know you're having a better first experience than me.

That is reassuring. :) I wanna make that world happen. ;D

Ya know, after I created this thread, I was afraid someone would think I was posting something like that :D
---------

For those of you who made some constructive posts, thank you. And thank you to those who posted advice on what to do. I *did* go to the "official" FAQ page and looked at Mt Gox prior to posting this thread. I guess I'll try it again. And I'll take a look at some of the other websites people recommended.

www.ubitex.org is a startup service that seeks to match local buyers and sellers of bitcoin with eachother so that they can exchange in person. As a shareholder, I think it would be great if you used and advocated this service to others such as yourself in your area!

PoS = Point of Sale? Always appears as this on my CC statements!  ;D

I....just can't let this go. It's funny. Good job.
(I am a Systems Engineer, so a IT Pro, not a coder. And my job is comparable in difficulty  as coding. And harder to outsource)

Good for a laugh.

Whoa, that necro!

More for a cry. One year later and not much has changed :(

I, too, am stupid.

Ubitex doesn't seem to work.

This is a good point that the OP can't see because it's so huge before him: Bitcoin is hard to do because the dominant money system does not WANT such things happening.  We have all been corralled in economic (and political and medical and legal and...well, you get it) fences.

But the OP should be given credit for attempting to take bold action.  Yes, he stopped to whine a bit, but now--chastened--he must return to the revolution.

Damnit, I read through half the first page thinking this was a new thread.

I'm probably piling on, but this is an extremely important point. Bitcoins aren't difficult to "buy." Fiat is difficult to spend (or at least to spend in certain ways). The difficulties in exchanging fiat for bitcoins are entirely on the fiat side. (And they're hardly insurmountable.) And if you are "buying" bitcoins by selling goods and services, accepting those coins is pretty darn easy. So what initially sounds like a criticism of Bitcoin is actually a great demonstration of its power. I remember that first international wire transfer to Mt. Gox. It was expensive, a moderate pain in the ass, and it took days to go through. I also remember that first transfer of my newly-purchased coins to my personal wallet. The difference in terms of the time, effort, and expense(!) between those two experiences was instructive.

I see this worked well.  :D

that makes you twice as intelligent as me :/

Coinbase invalidates this necro thread.

But coinbase pretty much sucks... I have only bad experience with them...

usd2btc.com ?  never used them, but the interface looks super simple to use.

You guys should look at my exam results and yet I somehow managed to understand the concept of money printing and can read stocks.... No really, I have no idea how the fuck I'm able to do that O_O

Yes, it is currently pining for the fjords, as is my investment.

Aww, has it ceased to be?

Strange. Everyone in the Free State Bitcoin Consortium seems to like Coinbase. I've never used it, as I think 1% is too steep a fee, but I haven't heard of anyone who has been stiffed by it, and the user interface seems pretty polished.

1% retail currency conversion is too high?

Hey OP,
Point of Sale?
If you mean piece of sh&^.  Well, that is the same as saying YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO USE BTC.
I agree with that, your ARE stupid

Maybe he meant "positively overwhelming success".

lol at title.

Here PoS usually means Proof of Stake (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_Stake).
And here I was expecting some clever analysis that explains why the Bitcoin Proof of Work system is somewhat equivalent to PoS :)

Although, in all due fairness (I now see that this is a zombie thread), when it was started there was no Proof of Stake.