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Title: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: gnu123 on December 26, 2015, 03:33:14 PM Have been hobby-mining on Slush, Bitminter and BTC-guild in periods since 2012.
Guild is closed since long, Bitminter seems to have become very small, slush where i have been mining last weeks with a total hash of 29 Th/s does not feel right anymore. Looking att the pool luck stats today on slush gives : Day : 46% Week : 86% Month : 81% Iīm no expert, but bad luck for a month ? Thinking about changing pool but to where ? Have checked https://blockchain.info/pools and as a long time miner it doesnt feel right with all that miningpower centralized into a few big pools in china, but iīm no expert here. What i want when i mine is a little better luck than slush pool and a steady payout. ok... i know how stupid that sounds asking for luck, but atleast not so much bad luck would be nice :-) As i remember it when i was mining last time in the late 2013, the payouts from BTC-guild was very steady, is there any pools today that can give a somewhat steady payout or is a smaller pool always depending a lot on luck ? How is Eligius and CKpool ? Have been checking out their webpages but im not sure in which threshold of BTC a payout is made or if it is possible to change setting. Slush have a very good interface for monitoring miners, both Eligius and CKpool seems to have a much more simple ( any ? ) GUI for monitoring ? Iīm open for any proposals, maybe even start mining at any of the big Chinese dragons would be the best for me ? Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? Post by: jonnybravo0311 on December 26, 2015, 04:16:27 PM Ultimately, the choice is yours. You certainly seem to have done some research. I would stay away from the big pools - not only because they're big, but because the top couple use SPV mining.
Mining on any pool with any payout other than PPS will mean you suffer from variance. The pool gets lucky, you get lucky. The pool is unlucky, so are you. Obviously, the smaller the pool, the more profound that effect will be. I'd love to see your hash at my own pool, but since the variance at a pool with 3PH scares you, well... you're certainly welcome to come on over. I suggest diversifying your hash. Point it to multiple pools. If you like bitminter, kano and Eligius, then go for it. You've got nearly 30TH/s... so point 10 at each of them :). Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? Post by: philipma1957 on December 26, 2015, 06:32:37 PM you could try mmpool.org
Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? Post by: gnu123 on December 26, 2015, 09:23:35 PM Thnx for the input !
Without changin from the topiuc to much, this is the stats from slush right now : 37% Day 81% Week 80% Month Whats going on ? Is it even possible that many blocks the last days take 12h or more to finnish ? Can it be some kind of attack on the stratum protocol ? The pool is doing something it should not ? I remember some years ago when slush pool had some really bad connection problems, i think it was pingflood or synflood attack or something like that. After one day or so i got an e-mail from slush pool saying i was one of the biggest miners so i got a new address and port for connecting my miners, the smaller miners i guess they got nothing. After that im not so sure of what to think, the pool owner did what got him the most cash out of the situation and left the smaller miners out in the cold, for me it was good but i really didnt like the feeling. Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? Post by: -ck on December 27, 2015, 02:45:07 AM How is CKpool ? Have been checking out their webpages but im not sure in which threshold of BTC a payout is made or if it is possible to change setting. With kano ckpool you get paid out with every block solved once the block matures so there is no threshold setting.Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? Post by: kano on December 27, 2015, 05:40:04 AM ... The block statistics, that anyone can see, are the best available - specifically the stats at the top of the page.Slush have a very good interface for monitoring miners, both ... CKpool seems to have a much more simple ( any ? ) GUI for monitoring ? ... You need an account and to login to see the worker stats, pool stats, graphs, etc (as you also need on slush to do the same ...) There's apps for monitoring kano.is that others have written quite a while ago, one is listed in the first post just before the old competitions: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=789369.0 Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? Post by: gnu123 on December 27, 2015, 11:29:09 AM I have now registered on the CKPool, been lurking arround a bit and is planning to move the miners to the CKPool this week.
But how do i add workers ? Under Workers i find /Shifts/Shifts graph/Workers/management but no "Add Worker" button ? I have 9 miners right now and would like to be able to monitor them all sepparately on the pool. Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? Post by: -ck on December 27, 2015, 11:35:53 AM I have now registered on the CKPool, been lurking arround a bit and is planning to move the miners to the CKPool this week. Just choose a workername with your mining software, ckpool auto-adds any workers it sees.But how do i add workers ? Under Workers i find /Shifts/Shifts graph/Workers/management but no "Add Worker" button ? I have 9 miners right now and would like to be able to monitor them all sepparately on the pool. Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? Post by: gnu123 on December 27, 2015, 11:40:54 AM I have now registered on the CKPool, been lurking arround a bit and is planning to move the miners to the CKPool this week. Just choose a workername with your mining software, ckpool auto-adds any workers it sees.But how do i add workers ? Under Workers i find /Shifts/Shifts graph/Workers/management but no "Add Worker" button ? I have 9 miners right now and would like to be able to monitor them all sepparately on the pool. Thnx ! I just read it "Your worker name can be whatever you choose and will be created when your miner connects to the pool. Registered username or Bitcoin address, followed by a dot '.' or an underscore '_', followed by a worker name." :) Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? Post by: Mitak on December 27, 2015, 09:28:49 PM I would leave my gear pointed at slush
Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? Post by: gnu123 on December 28, 2015, 12:45:26 AM Mmmm ok, just of interest why ?
Slush pool have been very good over the years, as bitminter and BTC-guild that was my favourite. But now it feeels like the right time to try something new. Cant say i like poolhopping, but 3 pools over 5 years is all i have been using. Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? Post by: Meuh6879 on December 28, 2015, 01:00:41 PM With 29 TH/s, you have 4.682 BTC per month now ( https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty top-right ).
Luck can accelerate payment ... BUT NOT CHANGE this amount of reward. Sorry. Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? Post by: jonnybravo0311 on December 28, 2015, 02:59:11 PM Luck most certainly can and will change that amount. Just like good luck means you'll make more than expectations, bad luck means the opposite.
Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? Post by: gnu123 on December 28, 2015, 04:35:20 PM Today i moved the first S7 miner to Kanoīs pool, will try out for 2 weeks and if it turn out fine i will move the other minrs to to Kanoīs pool.
If the luck is 90% - 110% itīs ok for me,, but 82% for over a month seems strange. Dont think i will get so much more with a new pool, but getting 90% or more over a longer period seems reasonable to me. Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? Post by: Meuh6879 on December 28, 2015, 06:00:30 PM Luck most certainly can and will change that amount. Just like good luck means you'll make more than expectations, bad luck means the opposite. ;D pool are not so stupid ... they have restriction for a member when it switch. like P2Pool, too. Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? Post by: kano on December 28, 2015, 11:04:14 PM Today i moved the first S7 miner to Kanoīs pool, will try out for 2 weeks and if it turn out fine i will move the other minrs to to Kanoīs pool. Well actually there's another issue to consider there also.If the luck is 90% - 110% itīs ok for me,, but 82% for over a month seems strange. Dont think i will get so much more with a new pool, but getting 90% or more over a longer period seems reasonable to me. Luck is based on blocks found, not time. So a pool with 80% bad luck for a month that found 200 blocks, is the same bad luck as a smaller pool 1/10 the size with 80% bad luck for 10 months that took 10 months to find 200 blocks. Yeah it's actually all about the CDF[Erl] that I show on my site. That number is how you compare pools since every pool is a different size ... and big pools having bad luck for a long period of time is (as I said) the same chance as a small pool having that bad luck for WAY longer. Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? Post by: gnu123 on December 29, 2015, 12:13:32 AM Today i moved the first S7 miner to Kanoīs pool, will try out for 2 weeks and if it turn out fine i will move the other minrs to to Kanoīs pool. Well actually there's another issue to consider there also.If the luck is 90% - 110% itīs ok for me,, but 82% for over a month seems strange. Dont think i will get so much more with a new pool, but getting 90% or more over a longer period seems reasonable to me. Luck is based on blocks found, not time. So a pool with 80% bad luck for a month that found 200 blocks, is the same bad luck as a smaller pool 1/10 the size with 80% bad luck for 10 months that took 10 months to find 200 blocks. Yeah it's actually all about the CDF[Erl] that I show on my site. That number is how you compare pools since every pool is a different size ... and big pools having bad luck for a long period of time is (as I said) the same chance as a small pool having that bad luck for WAY longer. I understand, and having bad luck for 10 months would be really strange :-) I appreciate that You take the time to be active here on the forum and answer questions ! And now iīm gonna log in to the pool and see if something has happened over the day. Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? Post by: Meuh6879 on December 29, 2015, 12:17:24 AM 3 months is a good space to judge about the luck.
Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? Post by: PatrickMacH on December 29, 2015, 03:05:46 AM Have been hobby-mining on Slush, Bitminter and BTC-guild in periods since 2012. [...] Iīm no expert, but bad luck for a month ? Thinking about changing pool but to where ? Tryout p2pool.611.to (http://p2pool.611.to) offering a mining efficiency of more than 100% (http://p2pool.co/ (http://p2pool.co/)): Pool URL: stratum+tcp://p2pool.611.to:9332 Username: YourBitCoinAddress/6000+1024 Password: xxx (or whatever you like) Payouts of P2Pool are directly into your Bitcoin wallet. To optimize the revenue you may tryout to modify the difficulty factor after YourBitCoinAddress username which fits best to your miners, like i.e. YourBitCoinAddress/8000+2048. As a rule of thumb use lower difficulty factors for slow miners and higher difficulty factors for heavy miners. If you set the difficulty factor too high for slow miners, your miners will probably produce too many orphans (like I just tried it out ::) ) Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? Post by: kano on December 29, 2015, 05:01:43 AM That doesn't affect the orphan shares or even what you are paid.
The shares you see at that difficulty aren't shares at all, simply information to see how your miner is performing. Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? Post by: gnu123 on December 29, 2015, 04:36:24 PM I did like this : created 1 new account on slush with a new payoutaddress. created 1 new account on kano with a new payoutaddress. Started 1 S7 Antminer on each account 2015-12-28 13:30. Now i will see what happends when the day goes by. Payouts so far : Slush : 0.0 BTC Kano : 0.00048526 BTC Both miners are hashing about 4,8 TH/s so this will be an intresting competition to follow up. Both miners live in the same serverroom and they eat swedish high quality electricity. But as you know, greed is a powerful thing..... So today i created another account on kano and put another S7 in work there becouse i have a feeling that kano will produce better. Maybe im wrong, time will tell. I will not be the first person in history making bad decissions couse of greed. ;-) But the payout is not the most important, what disturbs me most is that i dont understand, and can not change the strange luck on slush with about 82% luck over a very long time. It just doesnt feel right. Then we will se how this competition goes on, I guess that slush will win the first week, but after 2 weeks kano will lead the race. If im wrong, atleast i have tried and maybe learned a bit about the PPLNS payout system, i have read a little bit about it, but i dont understand so much, yet. My English is not the best... Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: gnu123 on December 29, 2015, 11:17:03 PM This is how it looks tonight running since 2015-12-28 13.30
First kano https://i.imgur.com/eFLNZr4.gif Then slush https://i.imgur.com/JGfVMY6.jpg Right now the payout : slush : 0.01161327 BTC kano : 0.00048526 BTC One S7 Antminer on each account. If i add more miners i will do it on other accounts with other payoutaddresses just to keep this statistic. Some Minerporn : Bellow we se one quad KNC saturn built from junk out of a scrapbox, hashes about 500 Gh/s and is very quiet. https://i.imgur.com/dBdYpZY.jpg?1 Itīs name is "The Beast" Bellow one Antminer S7, not a very good copy, hashes about 4,8 Th/s clocked at 700Mhz, do not like to be overclocked. NOT very quiet. Itīs name is "Nummer Ett" , Number One. https://i.imgur.com/ABc8XRO.jpg?1 How do i post pictures on this forum directly so there is no need to click them for viewing ? Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: gnu123 on December 30, 2015, 05:02:29 PM Day 3 of hashing. The payouts : kano : 0.0150691 BTC slush : 0.02318437 BTC Slush has gained more coins, for now. i Hope, and think that kano will catch up and tke the lead , but in how many days ? The "luck" at slush is still very bad, with better luck it would have gained even more coins. Both miners are doing well, besides a little break of about 1,2 hours yesterday when kano was down due to a ddos attack. Do people really have such a boring life that they are doing ddos attacks on mining pools ? WTF ! And i thought my life was shitty. Any input appreciated, the PPLNS system is not fully understood by me. And i dont know what to expect. Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: jonnybravo0311 on December 30, 2015, 05:05:55 PM Here's how I explained PPLNS on my own pool's thread...
Sorry about the confusion Rozo. Let's see if I can explain this without even using Bitcoin. Assume you have an empty glass in front of you. Now, you start pouring water into the glass. Every now and then I'm going to come by and take a look at that glass and measure how much water you've got in it. The first time I come by, you've got the glass only 1/5th of the way full. I mark that down and pay you for 1/5th of a glass of water. I come by a while later and you've got the glass 2/5 full. OK, I mark it down and pay you for 2/5 of a glass of water. This continues until the glass is full of water. Once your glass is full I pay you for a full glass of water, but I also now open a valve at the bottom of the glass so that water drains out as fast as you're pouring it in. In this fashion, your glass will always be full of water and every time I stop by, I see you've got a full glass and pay you for it. Eventually, you stop pouring water into the glass. However, that valve is still open, so the water is draining at the same rate you were pouring. When I stop by the next time, I see you've only got 4/5 of a glass, so I pay you for that much. The time after that, the glass is only 3/5 full, so I pay you for that. This continues until the glass is empty. In my story above, every time I stopped by is equivalent to the finding of a block. I see how much water you have in the glass and pay you for however much is there. My story assumed I stopped by at even intervals of time, so you'd always know when to expect me. So, how does luck play into it? Well, every time I stopped by, I made sure to calibrate that valve on the bottom of the glass. If I stopped by more often than expected, I'd mark you down and pay you. If I stopped by less than expected, the valve would clog up and the water you were pouring in would slosh over the edge of the glass and be wasted. When I finally did stop by, I would notice you had a full glass, and pay you for it, then fix the valve so that the pour rate equaled the drain rate. OK... maybe I shouldn't try explaining things after I've been drinking :P Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: swilla on December 30, 2015, 05:23:42 PM Once you hit your 5N, at current pool hash rate you will be getting ~.02 per block with kano. So it will take ~10 blocks on slush to reach the same amount. On days like yesterday, when we hit 3 that takes ~30 blocks with slush. Stick with kano and you won't be sorry. Since march of this year my little 5T setup has gotten me over 10 bitcoins with kano. Not bad at all IMO.
Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: gnu123 on December 30, 2015, 05:25:08 PM Thnx jonnybravo !
That was a very good way of explaining the PPLNS system ! Thnx swilla for info, I intend to stick with kano. Right now i have moved all S7 miners to kano without the one that must stay on slush so i can be able to compare. Totaly 24 Th/s for now. Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: kano on December 30, 2015, 11:57:39 PM Yeah it's the usual comment about what the 5N actually means :)
I put this on the help page a while ago: https://kano.is/index.php?k=payout Quote PPLNS acts like the reward 'ramps up' when you first start mining. What actually happens? The 5Nd means it takes that long to reward your shares. The ramp isn't missing rewards, it's delaying them to reduce variance. Each share is rewarded in all the blocks found in the 5Nd after the share. That's simply how it reduces variance. Each share's reward is averaged out over the 5Nd after it. The pool hash rate for the last day is roughly 5.42PHs which means the 5Nd 'ramp' is roughly 4days 7hrs. So your total reward for each share will currently depend on blocks found after each share for "roughly 4days 7hrs" But that's just dependent upon the pool hash rate, it's the 5Nd that decides the rewards. So, e.g. if you stopped mining and the pool was 10.8PHs, it would take "half as long in time" to payout your remaining shares. If you stopped mining and the pool was 2.7PHs, it would take "twice as long in time" to payout your remaining shares. The amount of the payouts as you start and finish are not affected by the the 5Nd. The 5Nd just says how long it takes. The thing that affects the indivdual/daily/whatever you choose payouts is the pool luck. The pool had very good luck just after you started, so your current total is of course actually higher than expected for such amount of mining vs the 5Nd Looking at the payouts based on a short period is actually not all that different to saying: "I rolled a 6 on this dice on the first roll, so I will always roll a 6" The best example of that is 'red october' where for the full month the block luck was 50% Anyone who only mined during october and no other time got paid shit. Oh well, that's how luck works. Conversely, anyone who was mining from 19.5wks go (16-Aug) until now should be above the 100% mark ... and that includes mining in october. -- Now for the two things that it would appear that a lot of miners have no idea about :) 1) You can't predict random block luck, the future random block luck is unaffected by previous random luck. There is no statistical expected difference at all chasing luck vs not moving around. 2) Pools all include factors in their luck that are not luck. They like to hide this fact coz it makes them look bad. Them's the breaks. Those controllable factors are lowest at ckpool.org and kano.is vs every other non-SPV pool. Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: gnu123 on December 31, 2015, 12:27:38 AM Thnx, i think i understand.
I also read : http://www.etcwiki.org/wiki/Bitcoin:_PPLNS_vs_PPS Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: gnu123 on December 31, 2015, 10:05:20 PM Day 4 of hashing
The payouts : kano : 0.0150691 BTC slush : 0.04655816 BTC Happy new year to You ! Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: gnu123 on January 02, 2016, 02:01:08 AM Day 5 of hashing
The payouts : kano : 0.05815938 BTC slush : 0.05831845 BTC Almost the same ! If nothing strange happends, slush will take the lead and keep lead for 2-3 weeks, then kano will pass. That is only what i think becouse of that the first payouts from kano was very low due to the PPMLN system, and that will take a week or two to catch up for kano. Right now the "luck" on slush is : day 106% week 80% month 79% Strange for a 39 Ph/s pool with that bad monthly luck for a long time, maybe the statistics is wrong and slush will outperform kano in a month ? Dont know. Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: kano on January 02, 2016, 03:12:04 AM Well yeah with kano.is after you stop mining, you expect, on average, i.e. if luck was always 100%, to get a total of 2 more full payouts, matching previous blocks, at the rate you were mining for the 5Nd before you stopped:
4/5 + 3/5 + 2/5 + 1/5 = 2 As usual, that depends on luck during the 5Nd after you quit, but those are the average expected rewards :) Edit: Also note, in PPLNS, this 'ramp' does exist, no matter what anyone else says, when you start and stop, no matter how the pool does their N. It must always exist since, when you start mining at a pool, you can never guarantee that you started at or before the start of the oldest shift used in the payout of the next block. Even if their N is as tiny as only 1 hour, if you happen to start at half way through the N, and a block is found while your first shift is still included, you won't have a full shift of shares for the N so your first reward will of course be lower than having a full shift of shares. That is of course expected since you are being paid for less shares, but the side effect is that each reward appears to 'ramp' up when you start (and 'ramp' down when you exit) That 'ramp' can in fact sometimes be zero, but that would depend on the N size in PPLNS, the pool size and the pool luck at the time. No one knows when the next block is, so yeah if some pool you are mining at thinks they do know in advance when they will get blocks, expect problems mining there :) Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: gnu123 on January 02, 2016, 04:18:06 AM Well yeah with kano.is after you stop mining, you expect, on average, i.e. if luck was always 100%, to get a total of 2 more full payouts, matching previous blocks, at the rate you were mining for the 5Nd before you stopped: 4/5 + 3/5 + 2/5 + 1/5 = 2 As usual, that depends on luck during the 5Nd after you quit, but those are the average expected rewards :) That i fully understand. What i want to prove with this little competition beween the two pools is mostly that something seems to be strange with a big pool doing about 80% for a long time. Maybe im wrong..... maybe im just a foilhat seeing a conspiracy or scam everywhere, time will tell. ;-) If both pools where doing an average of around 100% over a three month period and one pool take 2% fee and the other 0,9% fee the payout difference would be small. I know people saying that there can be no problem with slush becouse its so big, have existed for so many years and so many people are mining there so any problem would be discovered and handled with fast. Maybe.... Maybe the luck will turn and stay at 120% for six month..... Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: kano on January 02, 2016, 06:21:14 AM Yeah, I was just pointing out for anyone looking at the comparison and didn't realise, that when it ends there will be a period after that of more BTC from kano.is :)
Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: gnu123 on January 02, 2016, 09:54:53 AM ;)
Day 6 of hashing The Payouts kano : 0.05815938 BTC slush : 0.07002296 BTC Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: dodziu on January 02, 2016, 12:08:42 PM ;) Day 6 of hashing The Payouts kano : 0.05815938 BTC slush : 0.07002296 BTC is it daily payout or total? kano : 0.05815938 BTC slush : 0.07002296 BTC if daily, please tell me how did you do it :) Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: xleejohnx on January 02, 2016, 01:09:48 PM ;) Day 6 of hashing The Payouts kano : 0.05815938 BTC slush : 0.07002296 BTC is it daily payout or total? kano : 0.05815938 BTC slush : 0.07002296 BTC if daily, please tell me how did you do it :) Haha this is going to be total for the 6 days Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: d57heinz on January 02, 2016, 04:29:29 PM This is how it looks tonight running since 2015-12-28 13.30 First kano https://i.imgur.com/eFLNZr4.gif Then slush https://i.imgur.com/JGfVMY6.jpg Right now the payout : slush : 0.01161327 BTC kano : 0.00048526 BTC One S7 Antminer on each account. If i add more miners i will do it on other accounts with other payoutaddresses just to keep this statistic. Some Minerporn : Bellow we se one quad KNC saturn built from junk out of a scrapbox, hashes about 500 Gh/s and is very quiet. https://i.imgur.com/dBdYpZY.jpg?1 Itīs name is "The Beast" Bellow one Antminer S7, not a very good copy, hashes about 4,8 Th/s clocked at 700Mhz, do not like to be overclocked. NOT very quiet. Itīs name is "Nummer Ett" , Number One. https://i.imgur.com/ABc8XRO.jpg?1 How do i post pictures on this forum directly so there is no need to click them for viewing ? Right away i see an issue with the way you started this test. By looking at you image of slush i can clearly see you was on that pool prior to being on kano. It takes a couple hours to ramp up on slush. could you please show the entire reward history for that account.. Then i can see how much earlier you started on slush then kano.. But as it is. there is no way you could have gotten full reward on that first block at 13:00 on slush had you not been mining minimum of two hours prior. what i think you should do is make two new accounts on both sites and move the miners to those sites at the exact same time. or as close as possible.. Within couple minutes.. you need to show us the shifts when you started kano mining and when you started slush mining. then you will have an accurate test.. wait a month or two then take both machines off both pools and see where you stand after both pools show 0 ths. best Regards d57heinz Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: gnu123 on January 02, 2016, 11:50:00 PM Itīs the total rewards, its only one S7 on each pool. If it was daily out of a S7 we would all be rich :-)
d57heinz : As you say, something seems to be not right with the time. I dont know how/why becouse both miners were started within 20 minutes of eachother. I have absolutely no intention of giving any of the pools an advantage but 20 minutes more or less doesnt matter after two weeks. Maybe different timezones or wrong time on pool i dont know but the hashing has been running on both pools started amost the same. What matters more is that no S7 hashes exactly the same as one other. I got 6 copys of S7 , I choose the two who hashes almost the same, but still after some days it will not be 100% accurate. What iīm fishing after in this test is the rather big difference in luck between these two pools. Smaller differences is not possible to measure with this type of simple test. Also kano was down due to dDos for 1,2 hours before yesterday..... This is no exact science, but if the 20% difference in luck realy exists it will show up. I can not restart the test just to get thoose 20 minutes right becouse the owner of the serverroom, who also is paying the electricity which i get for free, he dont like slush anymore so he wants me to move the last S7 from slush quite soon, and as long as he pay the electricity heīs word goes. So some more weeks il run the test, then all miners must work at Kanoīs labor camp or they will get no more food. BBT with more pics and payoutdata, and now i will write that it is total :) Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: usukan on January 03, 2016, 08:49:02 AM Thanks for running this test gnu123
Very interested - been at Slush for a long time but jumped to Kano-ck a couple of weeks ago - and glad I did! I sat with Slush thinking luck would turn - but it just does not even till now. Some days it looks OK - then back to 12hrs plus to wait for blocks - its really quite unbelievable that it goes on for months. It all went to shit at Slush when the hash went up from 15 PH/s Slush seems to have an effective hash of 15-20 Ph/s - not what is reported at 37-40? I just cannot understand why the faithful stay when its clearly just not working anymore. Early days at a couple of weeks for me but no comparison with Slush vs Kano so far. Look fwd to your ongoing updates - great work! It might be worth benchmarking the results against a PPS pool like Antpool PPS or F2Pool. For instance at current difficulty F2Pool payout (with fee of 4%) is 0.00464763 BTC / Thash/s https://www.f2pool.com/help - but you need an account to check payout updates Cheers - usukan Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: vortexz on January 03, 2016, 08:56:08 AM Something fishy happens on slush, I belive they may show more hash rate than there actually is ...
Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: usukan on January 03, 2016, 10:28:13 AM Something fishy happens on slush, I belive they may show more hash rate than there actually is ... SatoshiLabs = SlushPool SatoshiLabs = Trezor think about that? Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: vortexz on January 03, 2016, 12:09:15 PM who is satoshi labs and trezor ?
Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: trendax on January 03, 2016, 12:34:34 PM @vortexz TREZOR is a physical hardware Bitcoin wallet managed and sold by the team at SatoshiLabs who are Bitcoin enthusiasts from Prague. I've not used a TREZOR before but had experiences with the competing product from Ledger Wallet. I found this product very useful to store cold coins. @gnu123 Thanks for posting the results for your efforts on Slush and Kano. If your still looking to try something new please test with our cloud mining pool: Cloudminer.com :: https://cloudminer.com (https://cloudminer.com) When your not clustering with other miners under a rental order your workers collectively mine with the P2Pool network but your accepted shares are saved in to our private share log until automatically paid out by the payout method Capped PPS with Recent Backpay (CPPSRB) We utilize secured multisig wallets from Bitgo.com and we support Bitcoin Core and focus on growing transaction fee full and not SPV based blocks. You can learn more from reading our FAQ (https://cloudminer.com/faq) Enjoy. Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: d57heinz on January 03, 2016, 04:12:34 PM Thanks for clearing that up.. even if you started slush early with whats goin on there i think im gonna have a good idea how the results are going to turn out.. keep it up.. Thanks for taking the time to show the community. may want to limit your losses tho and keep it to a month on slush ;)
Best Regards d57heinz Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: gnu123 on January 03, 2016, 06:18:57 PM Day 7 of hashing.
The total payouts this far: slush : 0.08190548 BTC kano : 0.09427786 BTC Both miners running since 2015-12-28 about lunchtime.. Still to early to say anything about the endresult but i thought slush would be stronger and deliver more the first week. Kano have 94% luck the last week and is pointing down with the block right now at 140% and counting, slush gives a luck of day : 72% week : 77% month : 79%. For a pooljumper being sure of the honesty of slush, this would be a very good time to start mining on slush ! The luck have been so bad over the last months that statisticly it will start to produce lots of fast blocks soon, it is impossible doing hundreds of blocks with a luck of around 80%, it can not continue if nothing else is wrong and in that case the luck will skyrocket soon. It must. EDIT : Looks like slush will take the lead for now, looked at the rewards page and it have som rewards up it sleeve for sure. https://i.imgur.com/1GCQPdQ.jpg Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: kano on January 03, 2016, 08:58:50 PM Someone just found a block :D
Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: gnu123 on January 04, 2016, 12:42:44 AM Will i get a free lunch now ? :D
My % = 0,06 Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: gnu123 on January 04, 2016, 02:48:01 PM Day 8 of hashing.
The total payouts this far: slush : 0.12230832 BTC kano : 0.1100553 BTC As expected slush will take the lead for some days to come. Unfortunately owner of the serverroom decided today not to mine on slush any more, so both testminers was today moved to another acccount on kano. Best would have been to run the test for 2-3 weeks.... I will continue to publish payout amount for some days, if the statistics about luck on kano and slush is accurate then kano will take the lead after some days, kano had better luck and almost 20% better luck for 1 week would be clearly noticeable. Besides that i think itīs possible that slush will be more lucky now when the hashrate have gone down from 40 PH/s to almost 33 PH/s. Sometimes i get the feeling that the higher hasrate, the worser luck for slush.... Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: clgrissom3 on January 05, 2016, 10:14:39 PM Post the totals as you get the ramp-down payments...
Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: gnu123 on January 05, 2016, 10:40:00 PM Day 9 of now shutted down hashing but still with payout.
The total payouts this far : slush : 0.14350147 BTC kano : 0.13847332 BTC Slush is the leader but from slush it is not coming any more rewards. Se picture, out of rewards here. https://i.imgur.com/84vPZRy.jpg Kano will continue to hand out some more rewards due to its payoutsystem PPLNS which when you first start to mine store about two blocks worth of rewards for before it start to do full payouts. https://i.imgur.com/cUIsptw.jpg The luck on kano is about 100% last days and week, no more no less. Itīs safe to mine on kano right now, safe without surprises. Block Statistics on kano : Description Time MeanTx% Diff% Mean% CDF[Erl] Luck% Last 5 Blocks 3.0days 101.1% 98.68% 98.68% 0.5479 101.33% Last 10 Blocks 7.1days 101.0% 102.40% 102.30% 0.5704 97.76% Last 25 Blocks 18.0days 101.0% 93.73% 93.37% 0.3929 107.10% Last 50 Blocks 6.3wks 100.9% 94.80% 94.78% 0.3712 105.51% Last 100 Blocks 18.0wks 100.9% 98.84% 99.29% 0.4848 100.72% All - Last 416 Blocks 67.7wks 100.6% 98.24% 97.89% 0.3384 102.15% As i guessed in previous post, slush luck has started to rise...... Today : 156% week : 98% month : 83% Hashing power is now 35 Ph/s. Maybe the luck will go down if the hasing goes up again ? Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: gnu123 on January 06, 2016, 06:17:43 PM Day 10 of now shutted down hashing but still with payout.
The total payouts this far : slush : 0.14350147 BTC kano : 0.16364113 BTC About 8 days of hashing gave a total payout from slush on 0.143 BTC , and from kano 0.163 and still counting. There is still one or maybe two rather small payouts from kano to expect. Right now kano has delivered a 14% higher payot than slush ! And thats at only 8 days of hashing ! This tells us that the statistics on kano saying it delivers about 100% in the long run is true and that the statistics on slush saying that it delivers about 80% in the long run is true. Luck on slush right now : Day : 57% week : 98% month : 83% , those numbers seem to actually be true. Its not an error in the statistics from the pool, its just the most unlucky pool in the world. If you are following this thread, I think you are just as curious as I to know more about the most unlucky pool in the world. Even if it skyrockets now, it doesn't matter, doing a 80% for several months is just not right. Itīs wayyyyy to much money in this shit knowing who to trust. Princeton University has a small and free online course about bitcoins, very informative and also up to date. https://www.coursera.org/course/bitcointech I can recommend you to read page 25-30 about 5.5 Mining incentives and strategies in the .pdf "Chapter five : Bitcoing Mining" , just click and read the .pdf, no banners, no registration, no shit - just the plain .pdf. My recommendation right now is to NOT mine on any pool that behaves strangely for a longer period of time, lets say a month or two, when people start to ask on a forum and also start to loose hashrate itīs time to step up and explain what's going on, or, its just a part of the strategy maxing out the profits ? Depending on the next block from kano it may be a difference as big as 20% after 8 days of mining. Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: gnu123 on January 07, 2016, 03:19:04 PM Day 11 of now shutted down hashing but still with payout.
The total payouts this far : slush : 0.14350147 BTC kano : 0.16364113 BTC No payouts from kano today, the last block from kano was at diff 259,418,864,36 249.729% and took so long time that the last reward from kano will be wery small. So the difference in payout between slush and kano for this test-period of 8 days of hashing is 15% higher from kano. Not bad but the difference had been even higher if this last block from kano not had been so extremely time-consuming to crack, the absolute best thing would have been to run the test for some more weeks but the difference is still so obvious that i will stop mining at slush. Today the pool luck at kano is about 100% from today and backwards some months, no surprises here, just as it should be. Slush has, as i guessed, started to increase heavily in luck : Today : 168% Week : 111% Month : 86% Why is that happening right now ? chance ? Ofcourse not, that would be to naive to think. Maybe, just maybe, the poolowner dont like the trend of sinking hashrate as people leave the pool, down to 33Ph/s righ now, and now doing something for the luck to change. I realy dont know, but climbing luck just as the hashrate start to sink, after 3 month of a luck at around 80% is a strange coincidence. Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: kano on January 07, 2016, 07:38:35 PM Yep, your Workers->Shift Graph shows the past mining is now all outside the last 5Nd reward range, so no more rewards.
Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: gnu123 on January 07, 2016, 10:32:45 PM Ok kano !
I think some really small amount from block 392129 will come in tomorrow, then i will summarise. And right now, slush is skyrocketing ! Day:181 Week:116 Month:88 Heard someone say "Right now itīs more hashingpower working the blockchain than we can see, thatīs why the luck is high and can stay high for a while" I have not enough knowledge to say if thatīs bullshit or if its true or partly true, but i know that if slush hits a higher value than 100% for monthly luck, the pool can not continue to outperform for a long time, for a while maybe to get back the fleeing miner, but not for a long time if the pool pays out real BTC to real miners. Maybe itīs just some strange software error.... I know there are people who got good theories. If slush goes up to a 100% in luck, and stays there, that would be good for many miners. But where did the lost 20% from 3 months hasing go ? Up in space ? Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: gnu123 on January 08, 2016, 02:07:54 AM Day 12 of now shutted down hashing with the last payout.
The total payouts this far : slush : 0.14350147 BTC kano : 0.16448362 BTC With this last payout we see that kano did a total payout that is 14,6 % higher than the total from slush. Getting that every week when running a miningoperation is a shitload of cash... Itīs sad because slush have good uptime, very good GUI, nice design and good statistic functions. But i donīt want or dare mining at a pool with a 80% luck for three months, and it feels even more strange if the luck miraculously will skyrocket right now. Whatīs the odds for a streak like that ? And if itīs a long lasting rise in luck that stays, where does that "extra" hashrate come from ? Any one care ? ......hmmm.. where did I put my tinfoil hat now.... so I donīt get radiated from the miners if they mine blocks that contains prime numbers.... oh I had it just on, good. Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? Post by: iCEBREAKER on January 08, 2016, 02:32:25 AM Whats going on ? Is it even possible that many blocks the last days take 12h or more to finnish ? Can it be some kind of attack on the stratum protocol ? The pool is doing something it should not ? You got it right with the last question. Slush is cursed. That pool slit its own throat, while jumping the shark, when it attempted to aid and abet the XT/101 attack on Bitcoin. Satoshi's lightning shall from upon high strike down the faithless. 8) Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: d57heinz on January 08, 2016, 01:38:46 PM http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uAuNEhWEnWA/Voo5TdWnQuI/AAAAAAAAE3s/9alWNZF4YhI/s1600/0_table_1_weeks.04012016.png
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UDGa4s_TdfQ/Voo5T-jkPII/AAAAAAAAE30/LZTHErOJRKw/s1600/0_table_4_weeks.04012016.png http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-O54Jsg7MY0c/Voo5TpDWoWI/AAAAAAAAE3w/jWeZ3Lfab64/s1600/0_table_26_weeks.04012016.png http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TA4XPWwr30Q/Voo5VCEqJyI/AAAAAAAAE38/3sM706kl06k/s1600/0_table_52_weeks.04012016.png ill leave this here for those that want to know how slush is performing past 1 month.. Like i said its no wonder he hides these stats Best Regards d57heinz Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: d57heinz on January 08, 2016, 02:11:17 PM what i find most alarming about those stats.. If i put my farm across all those pools best i could do is 95 % for over a year.. So much for trying to reduce variance ::). not to mention the fact that most those pools take a fee.. Problem i see if those pools dont get with the program and start finding some blocks they will never catch up once the block reward halves.. Not looking good.. Also looks like the private farms have a one up edge over the public facing pools.. Not so sure i like that and then to top it off you have pool operators that dont have a clue which leads to more losses.. Satoshi got it right when he went with each cpu.. like ive said before asics ruined the original plan for bitcoin. Now its just a game for those with millions of dollars :-\
Best Regards d57heinz Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: wlefever on January 08, 2016, 02:50:13 PM If mmpool had more hash it's payout method DGM/PPS/Merge mine would be great, and I think people would really see good results in the long term.
The problem is it's hashrate is consistantly under 100 TH which makes it veryu hard to knock down blocks consistantly. Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: d57heinz on January 08, 2016, 07:16:46 PM If mmpool had more hash it's payout method DGM/PPS/Merge mine would be great, and I think people would really see good results in the long term. The problem is it's hashrate is consistantly under 100 TH which makes it veryu hard to knock down blocks consistantly. Yes i agree. i think you need to have enough hash to be able to find at least one block per difficulty adjustment(worse case) or its a losing game no matter how you look at it.. If i start a pool now and price stays steady. If i cant find a block but once every few months or so.. you get hammered by difficulty/halving esp now with the crazy rise in hash luckily this time the price rose about the same percentage.i guess we just get to watch it run away from us.. centralization seems inevitable .. and looks like china is the winner to me.. cheap parts cheap labor cheap electricity.. :-\ Best Regards d57heinz Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: gnu123 on January 08, 2016, 11:50:41 PM what i find most alarming about those stats.. If i put my farm across all those pools best i could do is 95 % for over a year.. So much for trying to reduce variance ::). not to mention the fact that most those pools take a fee.. Problem i see if those pools dont get with the program and start finding some blocks they will never catch up once the block reward halves.. Not looking good.. Also looks like the private farms have a one up edge over the public facing pools.. Not so sure i like that and then to top it off you have pool operators that dont have a clue which leads to more losses.. Satoshi got it right when he went with each cpu.. like ive said before asics ruined the original plan for bitcoin. Now its just a game for those with millions of dollars :-\ Best Regards d57heinz Thanx for thoose lists with cheaters ! It really scares me, i thought i was on to something big with slush, but all are the same. cheaters. To sad. How can so many miners be so naive ? how could I ? The real heroes are kano and Bitminter ! , The other oneīs can go fuck of. Shitpeople who took the fun out of mining. Whit this shitbunch of fakepools, Antpool seems quite legit with its 99%. But we miners are the most stupid fucks, all of us should start mining at kano and bitminter instead of getting ripped of month after month. Title: Re: Moving from slush to where with 29 Th/s ? NOW: competition pool vs. pool. Post by: d57heinz on January 09, 2016, 01:39:34 PM youll find in the bitcoin realm the tendency to prey on the noobs is astounding to say the least.. Ive had to wade my way thru the endless piles of shit on my journey.(Ive been scammed over 40 k). It is sad that the only way one can make a buck in this world is by cheating out the next guy.. We have our previous generations to thank for the shithole of a planet we live in today.. A world controlled by corrupt politicians and corporations.. I guess this is their dream.. but what about the rest of the planets dreams.. Last i checked this planet was for us all not just a few pcs of elite trash! ;D
Best Regards d57heinz |
