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Sites like rollin, Primedice that write ''provably fair'' really fair ? if it does equal how they make their millions from minor houese edge ?
Maybe it's not fair at all and they manipulate the system to steal our money ?

What "fair" refers to, is that you when you win you actually win, and they don't tamper with the odds. Not that they have "fair odds". That's why if you bet at 2x, you have a 49.5% chance of winning, not a 50% chance. That's how they make their money.

Provably fair is only there to check that the result of the roll wasn't tampered with in any way, you can use third party verifiers(mentioned below) to check your rolls and to learn more about how the provably fair works. As far as their making money is concerned, it is the universal truth that in the end the house always wins.

Have a look here:
https://dicesites.com/provably-fair

lol i keep seeing that thing what does it even mean ?

Provability means that yes there is a chance that you will win or not. Technically, yes it can work but at some cases it will only be profitable if you know how to play it. By know how to play it, I mean know when to stop when you see that you are already loosing because the house will always win.

well indeed house always win, greediness let us forget that winning is not part of the strategy anymore, when you keep winning you did not want to stop playing when you play house keep getting the house fee and you see that's it will be fair or your bet saying that you are possibly win or lose the amount of your bet. that's the purpose of that but no guarantee that you will win.

Provably Fair means that they can give us a proof that they are fair. That means they maybe unfair but they have a proof that they are fair. But since there is no independent organization that oversees "provably fair" I think provably fair itself is a bulshit.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provably_fair

It doesn't work like that, I am independent and can (and have) looked at PrimeDice's provably fair system for instance. I am quite satisfied it is robust, and I have verified several games that I played there. However, the provably fair only proves the games that I verified were fair, not every single game. There's no feasible way for an independent organization to verify a site, and even if there was -- it would require people to trust the independent organization. Which is worse than what we have now, not having to trust anyone.


Anyway, as someone who runs what is probably the #2nd biggest bitcoin casino by volume, I'll let you in on a secret. Casino's don't need to, and aren't particularly interested in cheating. Even if I could undetectable cheat, and had zero morals, I actually doubt cheating would make me any more money. Why? Because cheating would decrease the variance for players (the number #1 attractant to casinos), decrease the great success stories that bring in players, and most importantly most players are loss bound, it's just a question of how much volume they turn over before they eventually lose it =)

if someone who did not know what provably fair exactly and how to verify it in clear way like us i think yeah provably fair is bullshit label , it is like we forced to admit it is 100% provably fair.

i know there is a way to verify it manually by user by matching the client seed and server seed but what actually that mean? we can always feel the bookies can change it anytime :( so dumb i am .

Well there are 2 things to consider here.



1. Implementation
First of all, most sites use (slightly) different implementations. IMO the "nonce method" is pretty much the best way, generally if the site uses this (like most popular dice sites), you can assume it's okay (especially for a dice site where you can bet both hi/lo.) Obviously ideally you would still check if they are doing everything technically correct, but this takes some knowledge.

Some implementations do different things, and might be not so good. If you don't have the technical knowledge to check this, luckily there are other individuals that do frequently check sites. For example, Rollin actually didn't have a perfect implementation that potentially could allow them cheating and they adjusted/improved it quickly after I posted about it: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=687571.msg12122724#msg12122724 Another example, keepinquiet found out that PocketDice doesn't have a perfect implementation either that potentially could allow them cheating: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1077905.0 Unfortunately they still didn't improved this AFAIK (so IMO best to not play there :X)

So there is no 1 organization checking it, but there are several individuals checking it (mostly dooglus, RHavar, keepinquiet and me I think - but everyone with some technical knowledge can do this.) I personally do plan to test all popular websites and compare all of the implementations in a proper/fair way (so not like those bullshit "review" sites.) But it takes some time to do this hehe.



2. Actually verifying your bets
If we assume the implementation is good. Still you have to verify your bet results to ensure you have not been cheated. It's good to learn the basics of how provably fair works here: https://dicesites.com/provably-fair but even just using 1 of the verifiers on that page should be fine too. Provably fair is definitely not bullshit if you take a few minutes to verify your bet results.

Of course they can't give you 50% for 2x. They will lessen the percentage because that's how they earn money out of there website.

I'm pretty sure the admins/staffs of a gambling website will not look in front of their screen just to manipulate their system and stop people from winning. If they are manipulating it, then how come there are some lucky people going off-desk with a lot of profit. It's all about luck, bro. If you think those dice sites are not fair at all, try BustaBit. Just a change for the type of game and it's provably fair too (according to admins/staffs at least).

Provably fair doesn't mean always winning for players. Its the proof that site doesn't manipulate result according to your betting amount. If game is provable fair than your winning or loss depends upon your luck. This type of statement comes when someone loss huge in this dice sites LOL ;D

I think is real, provably fair means that they dont change anything after its being randomize, if a site dare to prove their provably fair its mean your winning just depends on your luck

They could still change everything to make sure that you will lose. The only way to make sure everything is fair is to write down or copy the randomized seed and verify it after you play the game therefore if the house decided to cheat then you will know it instantly. Without verifying it, provably fair is useless

As NLNico said, if the provably fair scheme holds then obviously you can be assured that the casino is fair by verifying all your rolls at will.  You have to make sure that that's the case though first since a "weak" scheme could be potentially manipulated.

It's real OP but as we know the house always has the advantage so we cannot really win in the long run. It only becomes bullshit if the dice operator will try to scam us but I think there are a lot of programming experts here who can make an audit of its reliability.

yay this come to my mind back when i was new in gambling i always though that probably fair is a tactic use by most dice site to get more users, but realize i was wrong , knowing provably fair describes an algorithm which can be analyzed and verified : )

You  could use a online tool to verify and  calculate the fainess of the roll

hi

all the games/bets a player will verify are provably fair and the ones he does not could be still not provably fair? thats what you are saying? thx

I'm not a big gambler myself, but my understanding of provably fair is as follows:

- provably fair is proving that the outcome of a roll wasn't changed after you placed your bets. The outcome was pre-calculated and it didn't matter if you have bet a little or a lot.

If i'm not mistaking, this has nothing to do with the house edge... A casino might still claim there is a 1% house edge, but in reality have a 2% edge (a 1% edge by low = 49,5 and hi = 50,5 PLUS a 1% edge by "cheating" with the random number that's generated... ).

So, if my understanding of this is correct, provably fair is OK, but not foolproof.

I agree. To have a profit dice sites don't have to be unfair, they just have their house edge and make money from it. You can always varify your bet as were mentioned in comments above and if people see that a site is cheating they go to another site so it's disadvantageous for the site owners to be unfair.

Well, to me they are actually provably fair as you can verify each bet made by you. Yes sometimes when you dont verify bets you feel like cheated, I know how it feels after we loose money in dice.

the provably fair means that the hash and the seed are randomly generated, unless you can manipulate all the input and output of the hash data, if you change any symbol character in that clue, even only one, the result is completely changed.
most of the hash are based on SHA256 and you have almost 0 chance to manipulate, plus the bet ID is smart enough to detect the used hash if they are used to corrupt the output (AFAIK).

it is based on calculation in a nutshell.

it is fair, but not on the expected return, the common fact.

Yes, it is true. Without knowing the facts, people may first play with bigger bankroll thinking that they can win. Since this game need a luck to win and if they lose all there investments then suddenly these kind of new threads will pop up. These games need only luck to win or make profits so gamble very carefully with the money you can afford to lose.

But you will never know if you never try it. You just need some reviews from people and that people need to try too just make sure they are cheating and what I saw from dice game. House edge doesnt really affect much in a short game or may be manually click it. House edge always occur when you are in a longer bet that is why you should set some daily goal in case bad luck coming

I think it is real . Provably fair is a system where you can check what number was meant to be rolled , whether it is the number you have rolled. Although some sites like 999dice have cheated us ( the users ) by telling they are using provably fair , whereas they weren't , I think primedice and rollin really have no problem with that .

Yes you can verify your bets and when you don't change client seed then its your mistake ! Do not gamble what you can not afford to loose please or if you do so, please do not blame others.

He is saying that for you to be sure that you were not cheated, it is necessary that you verify your bets, any site can say that they're provable fair, same thing happened with dicebitco.in, they said they were but when some bets were verified it was found out that they manipulated the rolls.

So all he is telling you is that unless you verify your rolls, provable fair doesn't mean anything.

I agree, when you are in a loosing streak and use margtingale thats when house edge gets you, while your doubling your bet your profit gets lower and lower in my own opinion.

It is clear there is nothing wrong with most popular dice site Primedice and it have 100% provably fair system but first you have to learn something about provably fair system and how it works,

https://dicesites.com/provably-fair

The above site is good to check the roll of dice on your bet was not tampered with but how many people actually check each bet they make?

I guess you could probably have someone write a bot to record all the hashes that are shown on each bet and run them after play, anything like this already available?

So far there isnt anything sort of that yet however the closest things will be moneypot, which has a bet id page that verifys everything. If someone could have made some sort of plugin or some sort of ticker that could automatically does everything and notify when the verifications fails that would be better

That's why the "nonce method" is so great, because you use the same seeds for x bets. For example BetKing offers a "Click to verify" button after you generate a new serverseed. This links to my site with already all the seeds pre-filled.

So after I made 33 bets, I want to verify all of them, I click the "Generate server seed" button and then "Click to verify" which brings me here:

https://dicesites.com/betking/verifier?ln=32&cs=uFrya5K5HyvjBH5&ssh=FEA42BEC5229729C5A88A5D8069685858BD99EA8479DCD73EA54857DA82DCD82E33D99068146E9CC029B671C8C16BB43C5E8ED7D761DFBBA757AE0341685357D&ss=gM5zrDWBoRT7Mb3Gq2%2FUwo6WBpkLDiMTTs0b%2FVAHSY1ovSxMxBgKAuvEwsuJZEYPUT9OxNRPZkPaz2CN48bI0gE%3D

All you have to do is compare that list of bet results with your BetKing bets. So verifying bets on BetKing literally just takes 1 click (or 2 if you include generating a new serverseed.)

Thanks, would be good if someone could right an open source bot to check all bet hashes.

I will have a look at moneypot, I have seen their advertising in some signature here but so far have only played dice on Fortune Jack.

Edit: This look close to what i want, i will check it out, thanks.

There isnt one for all sites because i don't think most that sites give api access to those logs.

Kinda like this if you click toggle you can check all your bets manually.
But you can't validate all of them at once because its not either public with api or json/php format.

https://bitvest.io/results?start=&end=&query=sparked

Would be a cool idea though.

Yeh, some things to consider though:

- In theory site could change your bet history. Like "high" instead of "low" for a bet. Or the bet amount (bigger on losing bets - this is something dicebitco.in was claimed to do too.) Or just put fake bets in between while you are betting, but remove those when you generate a new serverseed. All of this is detectable though, especially because most people just want to check that last ~10 bets on which they lost... so you most likely remember how those bets went. But what I mean: in the end a verifier just makes the list of bet results/numbers, it obviously doesn't know the actual winning/losing amounts etc.

In theory the ideal third-party provably fair verifier runs in the browser and saves all the bets you make on the fly and verifies them right away if "per roll method" or after x bets if "nonce method". I believe seuntjies dicebot (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=307425.0) has something like that already, the only problem is that you will need to run a .exe file or inspect thousands of lines of code. Personally I like seuntjie and his bot has been around for years, but I would still never run a .exe file related to bitcoin gambling :X

very understandable not to run a.exe file related to bitcoin gambling but what would be the alternative and best solution in your opinion? thx

I think the "normal verifiers" are "good enough".

But an alternative for such automated verifying would be a more simple JS file (potentially as browser extension.) It would have the same risk, but since it won't have a bot, it should be way less lines of code and therefor easier to check for anyone who runs it :)





PS, for MoneyPot, I think the apps should make automated verifying in the user's browser. Basically it's MoneyPot who could cheat the players, so the MP apps should help the players by verifying each bet directly after it was made. (And also ensure the client seed is unique for each bet.) I assume some MP apps might do this already, but I never really looked at it.

to be frank we are noobs regarding provably fair implementation but we love the provably fair option because we don't want to cheat and don't want to be cheated

we added for example on 2 of our last apps the option for the user to change seeds because some user asked for it

what do you mean with " MP apps should help the players by verifying each bet directly after it was made."? is the Bet ID not enough where user can check the outcome?

could you give us a sample MP app who implemented it so we could check and tell our coders to add it?

in our opinion a player will not verify his bets as long he is winning but will start to check/verify after some losses. is there a provably fair option for the user to verify all his bets after his session and not to check after each loss? this is interrupting each players game and not preferable in our opinion

thx for the help

AFAIK ideal way for MP apps for each bet:

1) Get serverseedhash for next bet, show it to user, save it in browser (localstorage.) Note: if the browser is refreshed, STILL, use that same serverseedhash.
2) Generate a cryptographically-secure random clientseed, example of Ryan: https://gist.github.com/RHavar/a6511dea4d4c41aeb1eb Note: if the browser is refreshed, STILL, use that same clientseed.
3) Allow the player to change the clientseed, if he desires to do so.
4) Player clicks *bet*, you send those seeds to make the bet and get the result/serverseed back.
5) Check if the previously saved serverseedhash matches the hash of the bet result serverseed (in the user's browser)
6) Check if you calculate the same bet result with that serverseed (in the user's browser)

And repeat for next bet. This seems like a big process but is fairly easy to make and the player shouldn't even really notice.

You can see DustDice does this: https://github.com/dustdice/dustdice/blob/master/public/scripts/game-logic/engine.js#L205 This is just after making a bet. It verifies the game and it generates a new client seed.


* You will notice that in the process, the clientseed for each bet is different. That is the best way, but some players like to pick a "lucky clientseed". You could actually combine a random but still saved clientseed, described by Ryan here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1065847.msg12018096#msg12018096


That is the "nonce method" (using the same seeds for 10, 100 or even 1 million bets, but an incremental nonce to make the result different.) This way, you can verify all the bets, since the verifier just uses the incremental nonce too. But MP doesn't use this method.

MP uses the "per roll method" so the verifying has to be after each bet. This makes sense if you want to automatically verify bets since you don't need to request a new serverseed every time. But it only works if MP apps actually implement the verification process :)

Provably fair just means its not rigged.
Still 1% houseedge is quite high for an online casino.

I don't agree it's high, but its low. Go to online casinos who operates with dollars, and you'll see there's higher house edge.

thank you very much for taking the time for this detailed explanation

I understood form MP head dev that v2 soon out will use the nonce method. lets see if MP can confirm this.

if yes that would be ideal in our opinion

thx again

thats your opinion and thats fair enough but you don'd mind if we don't agree. a good example is roulette

Reputed sites may not do these kind of hidden things because they know the potential of this online gambling business. If they can attract more people with honesty and good service then they can make really big money in normal ways without doing all these hidden things. But new sites may do these short cuts to get more money in faster ways, so chose carefully to gamble.

Rigged or not rigged, the house still wins, they are in the business to generate profit. Please bear always in mind that you cannot last in any online gambling sites especially in dice due to house edge the gambling site sets. In order to win don't play long because the longer you play the more chances you lost in the long run.

Thanks from me too, i will look into this myself.
Could the incremental nonce using one seed be curupted by bad actors/scammers like predicting future rolls?
If any what are the week points using 1 seed for all bets?

Since one of the inputs is a clientseed (that the site doesn't know when you get the serverseedhash), the future rolls are all random and the site cannot influence it. But after the first bet (or when the site has the clientseed), the site can indeed calculate all future rolls. The site just cannot influence or change them. A hacker could also do this and win all the bets, which is why security is so important for the site owner. Although with the "per roll" method, if the hacker can get the seeds, it's equally dangerous since it already has the clientseed so can calculate the bet result as well.



For the player, the weak point is mostly that "automated verifying" is easier with the "per roll method" (while manually checking or using a verifier is easier with the "nonce method".) Overall the "nonce method" is much better for the player, although I can understand the initial reason to have "per roll" for MP.





edit: another potential disadvantage of the "nonce method", is that all future rolls are already predicted. So let's say you have a bad losing streak so you stop betting and you start to verify your rolls (generate a new serverseed)... it's possible to see what your next bet result would have been. If this would have been a win, you could make yourself pretty crazy :D This obviously isn't really a technical thing though.

I am not all that techy and I can't say that I know every detail of Provably Fair system. I know basics and understand how this system works.
However there were cases in the past that users found a way to tinker with Provably Fair system and manipulate outcome of a roll (Hufflepuff incident).
And now my question: can this scenario be reversed somehow? So that House could in the theory manipulate the rolls?

Although the site always win in the end but they will always winner and loser and house is playing with so many player so although they win doesnt mean that all player sure lose. Some of them sure get a good profit too but oeverall it looks like house will always win. Play with a longer time or shorter time this is only some fallacy because winning or losing is depends on your luck not on the time that you spend and you can't be greedy because this will eat up your balance for sure

If it was such then how HufflePuff scammed them.
Primedice would easily know that he is scamming, please get enough proofs because otherwise you just get bad comments.

That's what you called house versus the bettors, and due to the house edge house is always an overall winner. The provably fair is real but I am still skeptical on it due to the fact that I don't know how read it since I am not much of a computer genius but I would still gamble on them only what I can afford to lose.

No, HP could only get the results of his bets beforehand. He would then just make some losing bets to make it seem as he was not cheating, while in the long run he mostly won.
Yes a casino can, however it wouldn't go unnoticed for more than a week. There are several examples of such manipulations, with 999dice being one of them.

Hufflepuff incident wasn't manipulating, he basically had an second account with same server secret, so he first bet there and with knowledge of outcome (or with revealed server secret from second account) placed bigger bets in his first account.

If everything done correctly, manipulation is impossible, operator cannot change predefined result. Without client seed, or with client seed generated by operator (even locally, as operator can send it to the server before generating server seed, very hard to catch), operator can cheat by learning players' behavior. Example: You always bet High 50, so by knowing client seed, operator can generate server seed that give more Low 50 results (but this is too dangerous for operator because you may decide to play Low 50 this time).

Provably fair is a best thing happened to gambling, after bitcoin :)

Dude even if the sites are fair it doesnt mean that you will win. Always keep on your mind that house always win before you gamble. And thats the risk we are taking. If someone lose it doesnt mean that house isnt fair its just because house always win.

Yeah, Dice sites are also business. And owners want to have profit. That's why dice sites would be fair if you are a first time dicer but as the time goes by they will just let you lose any time you play.

Yeah, but still the can still lose if you have the luck that anyone dont have  ;D
many Casino closed because they went bankrupt.

All business sure aim for profit, there is no business that not aim for profit. Not only dice site should be provably fair, all casino must have this provably fair or people wont play at their site. Before start a gambling site provably fair is a must, thats why most site nowadays always promote their provably fair system and house edge because both of these are the core of gambling site

Probably fair - it is a question. In fact I think that if dice site owners do not crash, there is profit for them, otherwise they will close down their dice sites.  ;)

yes in a dice game was very fair in real life  :)

For my opinion, provably fair on dice sites is completely not fair. The system is always make you lose if you play for long run on dice. That's why i never play dice for long run.

Your not getting the point. Yes, the system makes you lose in the long run, because there is a house edge. There has to be, since it is Player vs House. If there was a negative house edge or 0 house edge, it would be very risky for the site owners. The point of provably fair is to prove that roll X is fair, and that they didn't rig the outcome, not that you are expected to get a profit. Provably fair on dice sites is completely fair (except for pocketdice, but it isn't a dice site like PD), and it is the house edge that makes things "unfair" for the player.

I can see why some people will come up with this in their mind,
as mostly you will win if you bet on small amount, but once you stack increased,
you will just lost it.

So people may thing the Provably fair is sth bulshit

At some extent, I do agree on your point that when we bet bigger amount than more chances of losing compared to betting less. Few times I felt it but can't prove it. So I never play dice for making profits but just for fun sometimes only I go for dice.

ive always questioned it because i never understood how it works. id rather stick with betting on outcomes i know are 100% legit.

Good, if you don't understand the rules then better not bet with it, actually Provably fair dice is real but because of the advantage of the house we still lose in the long run. That is easy to understand and we should accept that as we have no future doing dice if we aim for money or profit.

First of we need to understand what does mean of provably fair system.It means all bets what you placed can be verified by this well known system or standard set for online gambling casinos.I have no doubt about the fairness of these sites what OP mentioned as far as it is talk about provably fair implementation.

There is big difference between provably fair and house edge.Actually it is house edge that leads to many people towards loss as it is almost impossible to beat house.Whenever someone loose then first thought appears in mind is site is not fair.You need to be fully aware of the things in which you put hands.This is single advice for you.

Provably fair dice sites means for me I can play on them with full confidence that if somewhere I am not agree can verify my bet.There is a complete system which is recognized by most testers as standard.House edge is the real problem not this standard.You can never win against house if you keep playing continuously.Short term is your time where as long term is house winner.

I also think it is very important to learn how provably fair system work and on other side the house edge how generate profit for owners, now a days so many 3rd party verifier app available to check the bet status if out come is same than no need to be worry about it.

i will said yes,its totally bullshit,people will not get any effect from provably fair,we still can't see dice site not give us chance to won,and some bets are not make sense,this cause people leave dice game,and prefer to sports betting.

From what I understood its fair only if you reset your client seed after every roll. There were some conspiracies where the webmaster can hash a specific seed knowing your client seed is static and generate a loss in your favor, but it was never proven.

This only works on certain kinds of implementations. A nonce based implementation (just dice, primedice, betking etc), where you have 1 server seed and 1 client seed and a incrementing number, you can make millions of bets before setting a new client seed and still verify all of your bets without the server being able to change the outcome of any of those bets.

Implementations that use a server seed and client seed (fortunejack, rollin, moneypot etc) can theoretically "cheat" you if you play in a predictable manner. For example always use the same client seed and always bet high, the server can pick seeds that are biased towards another direction. Picking a random client seed for every bet prevents this.

I understand what you are getting at, but why does "always bet high" make a difference in the outcome? I assumed the bet amount has nothing to do with the seed hash.

If this dice are proven bullshit then you would not seen it operating anymore and attracting more bettors to risk huge amount of money. This is just a simple analysis that we should not overthink, why is primedice making more money if people don't trust dice games.

This is kind of where provably fair gets tricky.

The server cannot produce a hash without having picked a server seed. So here's the situation. If you bet predictably as I defined it above, the server can go:
The last 10 bets has been with client seed: 12345abcd
the last 10 bets has been: low
the last 10 bets has been at chance: 49.5%

it's "safe" to assume the next bet will meet these requirements.

1. Pick server seed.
2. Calculate lucky number for server seed using client seed above.
3. is lucky number>49.5
       yes -> return hash of server seed
       no -> restart from 1.
4. wait for next bet

This anticipates that your next bet will be low at 49.5% chance to win using client seed 12345abcd. If any of these things change, the system fails.
so the hash you see is legitimate, they didn't change anything after you placed to bet to make you lose based on the amount you bet, and you can prove it. BUT they did pick a -probable- result (probable because you're playing predictably) that was biased in a direction.

The same concept can be applied to sites that generate you client seed server side (that kind or ignores the whole concept of a CLIENT seed, doesn't it?) but with one less variable.

the last 10 bets has been: low
the last 10 bets has been at chance: 49.5%

it's "safe" to assume the next bet will meet these requirements.

1. pick server seed.
2. pick client seed (1 and 2 is interchangeable)
3. Calculate lucky number for server seed using client seed above.
4.. is lucky number>49.5
       yes -> return hash of server seed and client seed
       no -> restart from 2.
4. wait for bet


Of course, this isn't guaranteed to make the site win. If you change from high to low on a whim, you'd win instead of lose.


This approach isn't feasible for any site the uses the nonce based RNG for a few reasons.
1. It takes a LOT more resources (time especially). Causes more suspicion from users when randomizing seed.
2.1 The randomness of the numbers are very good.
2.2 The site has no idea how many rolls you're going to make on the seed. These two points mean that the site might make a seed biased towards low for the first 100 bets (making you lose more than you win) BUT because of the randomness is more biased towards high for the next 1 million rolls, making you win more. This all assumes you use the same client seed between server seeds and play predictably, as defined above.


So my personal tips: Nonce based provably fair: do whatever the fuck you want, just verify your bets after you reset the seed and look for nonce skipping.
single use client+server seed: generate your own random client seed for every bet.


It would be interesting to get a data dump from a few sites like rollin and moneypot and see how many users this could affect and how much of an edge the house could gain by doing this, I personally think not very much.


To Be clear, I'm not accusing any of the above mentioned sites of doing this, I'm merely using examples of where it would be possible to demonstrate why I personally prefer the nonce based RNG systems.

Actually, yes those sites are probably fair base on their odds. And if you're talking about primedice then you can check those times when it almost got bankrupt and try to search someone named Hufflepuff.

I really don't know but I bet once 0.01 at 1.01 payout, that is 98% chance. And I lose, but of course I made it back after I bet again. ;D

was wondering if you have ever verified the Rambo Dice game on FaucetHub. If not is there anyway you or maybe somebody you know could look into ive verified the rolls that i get there but when i use SHA-256 to verify the hashed client seed its always different from what FaucetHub said was the hashed client side i mentioned this to one of the mods there and he said i must be mistaken. I appreciate your time just reading this message and if by chance you could send a reply as far as my concern that would be truly wonderful i dont want to keep putting money into something if its not fair at least.

That's not about being fair. What you are talking about is the "house edge" and that's not cheating that's what you agree when you play on a casino. The longer you play it is more certain that you are going to lose. How the hell the casino would stay in business if you were able to win in the long run? Doesn't make sense. If you are going to gamble the best strategy is going all in. All in with the amount you won't need in the future, not with your life savings in case you try to misunderstand me.

You can know what is provably fair by reading on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provably_fair and then you can determine by yourself from the websites. We know that in the gambling game, it is hard to win if we didn't have luck when we played so although the site was stating about provably fair, as long as you don't have any luck, you cannot be the winner. So you need to understand this before you decide to gamble on any gambling websites.

I still do not understand how people think that "because I lose almost all the time, the website must be rigged". That is not how it works, that is not how any of this works. There is house edge on casinos like it is said and you can not really think that because you lose that must mean the website is corrupt.

We can calculate and actually prove that you are wrong on both parts by just checking the seed and provably fair will give you the honest answer and prove that they are not scamming you, plus they have a house edge which means on a long enough run you SHOULD be losing money, that is how the system works, why would anyone give you free money, you are actually giving the casino free money for just existing and allowing you to play. Why is this so hard to understand for some people.

I am also a developer.And i can say there is no meaning in saying "Provablity fair is making me loose".
Provability fair is a system that proves the user site is fair.Before every game site gives you a hashed string(Or other variations of the main hash,it depends on the system)after the bet it gives you another string,it is the unhashed string if you hash that string with the correct algorithm it gives you the first string so it proves site is fair beacuse it actually gives you the bet result but you cant understand it cause it is hashed.

Sooo why i am loosing eventually?
Well it is the simple math lets say you have %50 chance to win the bet if you are wrong you will loose your money.But if you correct you will double it but you if you won't cashout the money your chance will drop to %25 in other bet.So you will eventually loose.the important thing is you should know where to stop,have a nice day.

These people do really exist even us who do completely understand how gambling works. Blaming is one of the common behavior of a human being when there is something wrong that they do encounter.

When we do try to look up reputable sites as of now, you can really convinced yourself that they are showing ways to verify bets. The only thing that we cant beat up is the HE.

dont' be too confident on Provably fair system. even wiki shows page issues for the term "provably fair"
This article needs additional citations for verification.
Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed.ways ways ways ways ways ways

Another post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=283547.0  [EDU] Provably fair and how it can be exploited by casino owners against you.

As already said the house edge is the difference from 100% -your chances to win -your chances to win.

Basically, the more you play the more your winning or more likely losses will be equal to the house edge and that's it will be their profit.

Now multiply this number for thousands of accounts, and you will get thousands of bitcoins.

Provably fair is fair think all about the players in the world who are betting and some are winnings big and some are also loosing, We know gambling is risky so it's obvious that we really need 99% luck and 1% skill.

By project saying really fair and so on that doesn't mean that is a scheme to steal anyone's funds but if you have a clear case with facts about project that has duped people with this scheme you can state it

I wonder if it's possible that some of the websites that claim provable fair arent actually provable fair or are doing something dishonest?  I need to be sure what to look out for when I see provable fair on any kind of gambling website
Some of this sites are well known here and are likely reputable though..

Probably fair means there will be no temper with the original system setting such as the winning and the betting odd and the bonuses and give away, some unfair site can deactivate your account on they platform when you win big amount or even bring unwritten law the moment you have huge winning. But most popular gambling site's are very Fair with their games.

Come to think that gambling sites wont able to reach out that reputation if they arent fair where most people believe and play.We wont able to say
that they are completely or 100% fair yet there are sites which you can verify out fairness which do shows transparency that all bets or outcomes
are fair which do build out confidence as a players.

Pretty simple way of checking if the gambling site is having a provably fair system.
I believe that provably fair system really exists in dice sites where you can verify your seed anytime.
So it is real and not an illusion. Losing money is not an issue here, because it is a gambling game, you are really bound to lose.
And you should know when to stop losing that money.

Thats not what you call a provably fair but its called legitness  . If a gambling site is legit ,you will be able to withdrew what you won without any hassel but if a gambling site is scam,you wont withdrew anything that you won  .  

On the other hand provably fair means that a site is some kind of a hash or string ( like what other users are saying ) you can verify it within the site that you are playing with it to see if it matches  or if its legit  .

Provably fair means you can verify the result, it doesn't mean there is no house edge or your winning chances increasing, the provably faie dice sites does exist, and provably fair system is a must the dice want to become big and all the players wont play if the site doesn't got the provably fair, all the reputable dice site got the provably fair system

These provably fair dice sites are not at all fair, they have long been manipulating the system so that they can gain big profits. It is not that they have been making millions just from house edge.

The house always have its edge or else the site will not last or nonsense. Now, if you want to gamble with a hundred percent profit then dream. Its not that the house steal our money but thats what business means. They need some sure profit so they should have some percentage of the bets.

Exactly, I think most gamblers misunderstood it to be like that, most of betting sites is provably fair but doesn’t mean they have fair odds, besides they create it to make money this will ensure that the odds is always on their side.

It is business and if you keep losing there is no way you will remain in it. I have been following some gambling sites and see that to some extent there are fair to the players and that is what matter. You should know that as a gambler you must lose money and some time make money because that is what keeps the business going.

what do you call Fair Odds? please explain, thanks

For those who will search or create such threads, this is the best answer to your question. Everything is mathematically simple: Casino has better chance of win and that's why you lose, haven't you ever seen 49.5 win rate? Do you think that 0.5% means nothing? Sorry but mathematically that means a lot and when you consider gambling in long run, this especially increases your chance of lose. So play for fun and not for profit.

That's a clear statement on the term provably fair used on each and every dice site in specific.

1. Everything is over mathematical scripts, in those technical aspect what we see is provably fair.
2. House edge is the next thing, very few get to win while the statement is 1% house edge.
3. Whatever might be the fact, greed is the reason for loses unlike the script being provably fair.
4. Sites give different explanation for being provably fair, we need to decide how to spend.

Odds means the probability of winning and fair odds means that what they state is real or what you see is what you get , let say the odds is 49.50 % and you can double your profit if you win  . that means you can get 120 btc if you bet 60 btc and if you set the odds to 49.50 %    . is that clear to you ?   Provably fair is real and its not b.s as long as you are playing on a legit gambling site 

A good friend of mine works for a company which develops software for casinos, also very well known ones. There is nothing "fair", algorithms are always favouring the casino, sometimes obviously (2x brings a chance of 49.5% instead of 50% eg.), sometimes not: Their software contains logic, that jackpots arent triggered as often as they stastically should for example.