Provably fair dice - real or bulshit ?

[Betwrong]

What "fair" refers to, is that you when you win you actually win, and they don't tamper with the odds. Not that they have "fair odds". That's why if you bet at 2x, you have a 49.5% chance of winning, not a 50% chance. That's how they make their money.

I agree. To have a profit dice sites don't have to be unfair, they just have their house edge and make money from it. You can always varify your bet as were mentioned in comments above and if people see that a site is cheating they go to another site so it's disadvantageous for the site owners to be unfair.

[ricardobs]

Sites like rollin, Primedice that write ''provably fair'' really fair ? if it does equal how they make their millions from minor houese edge ?
Maybe it's not fair at all and they manipulate the system to steal our money ?

Well, to me they are actually provably fair as you can verify each bet made by you. Yes sometimes when you dont verify bets you feel like cheated, I know how it feels after we loose money in dice.

[lottery248]

the provably fair means that the hash and the seed are randomly generated, unless you can manipulate all the input and output of the hash data, if you change any symbol character in that clue, even only one, the result is completely changed.
most of the hash are based on SHA256 and you have almost 0 chance to manipulate, plus the bet ID is smart enough to detect the used hash if they are used to corrupt the output (AFAIK).

it is based on calculation in a nutshell.

it is fair, but not on the expected return, the common fact.

[fullypak]

Provably fair doesn't mean always winning for players. Its the proof that site doesn't manipulate result according to your betting amount. If game is provable fair than your winning or loss depends upon your luck. This type of statement comes when someone loss huge in this dice sites LOL

Yes, it is true. Without knowing the facts, people may first play with bigger bankroll thinking that they can win. Since this game need a luck to win and if they lose all there investments then suddenly these kind of new threads will pop up. These games need only luck to win or make profits so gamble very carefully with the money you can afford to lose.

[SparkedDev]

That's true but that still doesn't make any of the sites 100% fair since we don't know what their random number algorithm is, I guess you can make a code that produces fair random numbers but it's still rigged in a sense that algorithm is unfavorable for those that play martingale for example. Like it constantly produces long streaks of over/under 50 numbers when playing 2X multiplier.

That isnt 100% true most sites like bitvest explain in detail how it is calculated an the algo.
Tho martingale works just fine for many users just when is that edge going to sneak up on you.
Biggest mistake people make is chasing loses.

Also pof is a method of allowing you to verify a game was legit.
It go's so far as allowing you to make your own side of the script if you don't trust what it auto gives.




https://bitvest.io/results

I'f you click on toggle you can verify every game you choose.




The dev for bitvest is really open to how things work an tries his best to explain it so everyone understands.

[gizane]

What "fair" refers to, is that you when you win you actually win, and they don't tamper with the odds. Not that they have "fair odds". That's why if you bet at 2x, you have a 49.5% chance of winning, not a 50% chance. That's how they make their money.

I agree. To have a profit dice sites don't have to be unfair, they just have their house edge and make money from it. You can always varify your bet as were mentioned in comments above and if people see that a site is cheating they go to another site so it's disadvantageous for the site owners to be unfair.

But you will never know if you never try it. You just need some reviews from people and that people need to try too just make sure they are cheating and what I saw from dice game. House edge doesnt really affect much in a short game or may be manually click it. House edge always occur when you are in a longer bet that is why you should set some daily goal in case bad luck coming

[absy]

I think it is real . Provably fair is a system where you can check what number was meant to be rolled , whether it is the number you have rolled. Although some sites like 999dice have cheated us ( the users ) by telling they are using provably fair , whereas they weren't , I think primedice and rollin really have no problem with that .

[redsun114]

Yes you can verify your bets and when you don't change client seed then its your mistake ! Do not gamble what you can not afford to loose please or if you do so, please do not blame others.

[bitbaby]

Provably Fair means that they can give us a proof that they are fair. That means they maybe unfair but they have a proof that they are fair. But since there is no independent organization that oversees "provably fair" I think provably fair itself is a bulshit.

It doesn't work like that, I am independent and can (and have) looked at PrimeDice's provably fair system for instance. I am quite satisfied it is robust, and I have verified several games that I played there. However, the provably fair only proves the games that I verified were fair, not every single game. .....................

hi
all the games/bets a player will verify are provably fair and the ones he does not could be still not provably fair? thats what you are saying? thx

He is saying that for you to be sure that you were not cheated, it is necessary that you verify your bets, any site can say that they're provable fair, same thing happened with dicebitco.in, they said they were but when some bets were verified it was found out that they manipulated the rolls.

So all he is telling you is that unless you verify your rolls, provable fair doesn't mean anything.

[Sled]

What "fair" refers to, is that you when you win you actually win, and they don't tamper with the odds. Not that they have "fair odds". That's why if you bet at 2x, you have a 49.5% chance of winning, not a 50% chance. That's how they make their money.

I agree. To have a profit dice sites don't have to be unfair, they just have their house edge and make money from it. You can always varify your bet as were mentioned in comments above and if people see that a site is cheating they go to another site so it's disadvantageous for the site owners to be unfair.

But you will never know if you never try it. You just need some reviews from people and that people need to try too just make sure they are cheating and what I saw from dice game. House edge doesnt really affect much in a short game or may be manually click it. House edge always occur when you are in a longer bet that is why you should set some daily goal in case bad luck coming

I agree, when you are in a loosing streak and use margtingale thats when house edge gets you, while your doubling your bet your profit gets lower and lower in my own opinion.

[crytoboost]

It is clear there is nothing wrong with most popular dice site Primedice and it have 100% provably fair system but first you have to learn something about provably fair system and how it works,

https://dicesites.com/provably-fair

[bitkilo]

Provably fair is only there to check that the result of the roll wasn't tampered with in any way, you can use third party verifiers(mentioned below) to check your rolls and to learn more about how the provably fair works. As far as their making money is concerned, it is the universal truth that in the end the house always wins.

Have a look here:
https://dicesites.com/provably-fair

The above site is good to check the roll of dice on your bet was not tampered with but how many people actually check each bet they make?

I guess you could probably have someone write a bot to record all the hashes that are shown on each bet and run them after play, anything like this already available?

[shulio]

I guess you could probably have someone write a bot to record all the hashes that are shown on each bet and run them after play, anything like this already available?

So far there isnt anything sort of that yet however the closest things will be moneypot, which has a bet id page that verifys everything. If someone could have made some sort of plugin or some sort of ticker that could automatically does everything and notify when the verifications fails that would be better

[NLNico]

Provably fair is only there to check that the result of the roll wasn't tampered with in any way, you can use third party verifiers(mentioned below) to check your rolls and to learn more about how the provably fair works. As far as their making money is concerned, it is the universal truth that in the end the house always wins.

Have a look here:
https://dicesites.com/provably-fair

The above site is good to check the roll of dice on your bet was not tampered with but how many people actually check each bet they make?

I guess you could probably have someone write a bot to record all the hashes that are shown on each bet and run them after play, anything like this already available?

That's why the "nonce method" is so great, because you use the same seeds for x bets. For example BetKing offers a "Click to verify" button after you generate a new serverseed. This links to my site with already all the seeds pre-filled.

So after I made 33 bets, I want to verify all of them, I click the "Generate server seed" button and then "Click to verify" which brings me here:

https://dicesites.com/betking/verifier?ln=32&cs=uFrya5K5HyvjBH5&ssh=FEA42BEC5229729C5A88A5D8069685858BD99EA8479DCD73EA54857DA82DCD82E33D99068146E9CC029B671C8C16BB43C5E8ED7D761DFBBA757AE0341685357D&ss=gM5zrDWBoRT7Mb3Gq2%2FUwo6WBpkLDiMTTs0b%2FVAHSY1ovSxMxBgKAuvEwsuJZEYPUT9OxNRPZkPaz2CN48bI0gE%3D

All you have to do is compare that list of bet results with your BetKing bets. So verifying bets on BetKing literally just takes 1 click (or 2 if you include generating a new serverseed.)

[bitkilo]

I guess you could probably have someone write a bot to record all the hashes that are shown on each bet and run them after play, anything like this already available?

So far there isnt anything sort of that yet however the closest things will be moneypot, which has a bet id page that verifys everything. If someone could have made some sort of plugin or some sort of ticker that could automatically does everything and notify when the verifications fails that would be better

Thanks, would be good if someone could right an open source bot to check all bet hashes.

I will have a look at moneypot, I have seen their advertising in some signature here but so far have only played dice on Fortune Jack.

Edit: This look close to what i want, i will check it out, thanks.

Provably fair is only there to check that the result of the roll wasn't tampered with in any way, you can use third party verifiers(mentioned below) to check your rolls and to learn more about how the provably fair works. As far as their making money is concerned, it is the universal truth that in the end the house always wins.

Have a look here:
https://dicesites.com/provably-fair

The above site is good to check the roll of dice on your bet was not tampered with but how many people actually check each bet they make?

I guess you could probably have someone write a bot to record all the hashes that are shown on each bet and run them after play, anything like this already available?

That's why the "nonce method" is so great, because you use the same seeds for x bets. For example BetKing offers a "Click to verify" button after you generate a new serverseed. This links to my site with already all the seeds pre-filled.

So after I made 33 bets, I want to verify all of them, I click the "Generate server seed" button and then "Click to verify" which brings me here:

https://dicesites.com/betking/verifier?ln=32&cs=uFrya5K5HyvjBH5&ssh=FEA42BEC5229729C5A88A5D8069685858BD99EA8479DCD73EA54857DA82DCD82E33D99068146E9CC029B671C8C16BB43C5E8ED7D761DFBBA757AE0341685357D&ss=gM5zrDWBoRT7Mb3Gq2%2FUwo6WBpkLDiMTTs0b%2FVAHSY1ovSxMxBgKAuvEwsuJZEYPUT9OxNRPZkPaz2CN48bI0gE%3D

All you have to do is compare that list of bet results with your BetKing bets. So verifying bets on BetKing literally just takes 1 click (or 2 if you include generating a new serverseed.)

[SparkedDev]

There isnt one for all sites because i don't think most that sites give api access to those logs.

Kinda like this if you click toggle you can check all your bets manually.
But you can't validate all of them at once because its not either public with api or json/php format.

https://bitvest.io/results?start=&end=&query=sparked

Would be a cool idea though.

[NLNico]

Edit: This look close to what i want, i will check it out, thanks.

Yeh, some things to consider though:

- In theory site could change your bet history. Like "high" instead of "low" for a bet. Or the bet amount (bigger on losing bets - this is something dicebitco.in was claimed to do too.) Or just put fake bets in between while you are betting, but remove those when you generate a new serverseed. All of this is detectable though, especially because most people just want to check that last ~10 bets on which they lost... so you most likely remember how those bets went. But what I mean: in the end a verifier just makes the list of bet results/numbers, it obviously doesn't know the actual winning/losing amounts etc.

In theory the ideal third-party provably fair verifier runs in the browser and saves all the bets you make on the fly and verifies them right away if "per roll method" or after x bets if "nonce method". I believe seuntjies dicebot has something like that already, the only problem is that you will need to run a .exe file or inspect thousands of lines of code. Personally I like seuntjie and his bot has been around for years, but I would still never run a .exe file related to bitcoin gambling :X

[JackpotRacer]

Personally I like seuntjie and his bot has been around for years, but I would still never run a .exe file related to bitcoin gambling :X

very understandable not to run a.exe file related to bitcoin gambling but what would be the alternative and best solution in your opinion? thx

[NLNico]

I think the "normal verifiers" are "good enough".

But an alternative for such automated verifying would be a more simple JS file (potentially as browser extension.) It would have the same risk, but since it won't have a bot, it should be way less lines of code and therefor easier to check for anyone who runs it





PS, for MoneyPot, I think the apps should make automated verifying in the user's browser. Basically it's MoneyPot who could cheat the players, so the MP apps should help the players by verifying each bet directly after it was made. (And also ensure the client seed is unique for each bet.) I assume some MP apps might do this already, but I never really looked at it.

[JackpotRacer]

I think the "normal verifiers" are "good enough".

But an alternative for such automated verifying would be a more simple JS file (potentially as browser extension.) It would have the same risk, but since it won't have a bot, it should be way less lines of code and therefor easier to check for anyone who runs it





PS, for MoneyPot, I think the apps should make automated verifying in the user's browser. Basically it's MoneyPot who could cheat the players, so the MP apps should help the players by verifying each bet directly after it was made. (And also ensure the client seed is unique for each bet.) I assume some MP apps might do this already, but I never really looked at it.

to be frank we are noobs regarding provably fair implementation but we love the provably fair option because we don't want to cheat and don't want to be cheated

we added for example on 2 of our last apps the option for the user to change seeds because some user asked for it

what do you mean with " MP apps should help the players by verifying each bet directly after it was made."? is the Bet ID not enough where user can check the outcome?

could you give us a sample MP app who implemented it so we could check and tell our coders to add it?

in our opinion a player will not verify his bets as long he is winning but will start to check/verify after some losses. is there a provably fair option for the user to verify all his bets after his session and not to check after each loss? this is interrupting each players game and not preferable in our opinion

thx for the help