Bitcoin Forum

What is the problem?
Why are they so insanely arrogant and rude but don't deliver anything at all?
I really don't get it.
Who wants to live like this? Bashing everyone else yet being the worst of all oneself?!

Being a botnet exclusive coin and all the retarded xmr shill spam certainly doesn't help.

Just ignore it/them

Monero haters might like this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=753252.msg14860890#msg14860890

http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q744/EmilioMann/Captura%20de%20Tela%202016-05-15%20as%2016.15.56_zpskqxcemgq.png (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/EmilioMann/media/Captura%20de%20Tela%202016-05-15%20as%2016.15.56_zpskqxcemgq.png.html)

I think the core of Monero is actually pretty solid tech but they don't have competent developers.
I don't know what they're doing but definitely not working on the coin.
(I'm a bagholder).

If you are really a "bagholder" you're a pretty dumb one.

1. There are multiple GUI wallets, and have been since a few months after launch. At least 5-6. If people really cared about that, they would catch on more, but they don't, because casual users are usually happy with a web wallet (why blockchain.info and coinbase are the most popular BTC wallets) and most of the more serious users are happy with CLI. Currently only one GUI is still maintained (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=903579.0), I think, mostly due to lack of interest, but some of the others may still work.

2. You don't "need a shitload of RAM" since the database version, released January 1, 2016 (with three updates since), so almost six months now. It runs fine on Raspberry Pi 1A+ and other tiny computers (I don't think anyone has tried the Pi Zero). I've also seen screen shots showing it run in like 50 MB or less on a Mac.

What's Monero's problem? None at all really, there are just a lot of shitcoin scammers and their sock puppets (most of the posts on this thread probably, and the other one run by one of those scammers where my replies are selectively deleted) who hate us, and that's a sign we're doing something right.

Thank you, I just decided not wanting to be a bagholder anymore. I'll sell of my Moneros.

You are pretty 'dumb' with your shitty attacking-everyone-advertisement. Get lost!

No smooth there is another problem.

Monero has this attitude that they are the shit and every one else is shit. And your community disrespects those who have supported Monero.

I took so much abuse from Shen-noether, iCEBREAKER, and various other members of your community.

Now it is time for payback. Do you really think I would post that I have a technical solution to eliminate the simultaneity in CoinJoin if I don't. Sheesh. You need to teach your community that I am legit. I am really disappointed with your shit community.

So now I am shopping around for someone who can take my technical idea and make it a Monero-killer asap. So I can teach your community a lesson that they deserve.

---

being a coin for elite people, when it was first launched i see only big player there, it's like they were all in agrrement for that coin lol, also the name is bad, it's just bitcoin in espagnl or something stupid

I don't think any coin has a distinct 'community' as such, and there aren't tribes ready to go to war with each other. I like monero, and about 20 other decent alts, and btc off course too, so I'm in all of those 'communities, and when you launch your own JAMBOX I'll probably support that, so I'll be part of your community too.

I think most crypto followers are interested in lots of coins, so if your motivation is to teach the monero community a lesson I think you'll just push people away from your project. I love football, but I don't like hooligans who use it as an excuse to fight. I want to see a great match. It's the same here; if your project is cool people will support it, and it can co-exist with monero and lots of other coins. But if you're motivated by 'revenge' you'll ultimately fail IMO

Monero is worthless as a currency, slow confirmations, a codebase full with bugs, no thin client support and high inflation.

Only thing going for it is anonymity, which isn't the creation of their developers, but something they forked. Good luck with future adoption there.

You could be right, time will tell.


Most rational cryptocurrency experts would not consider 2 minutes particularly slow, if anything it is on the fast side.


I see no evidence it has proportionality more bugs than any other codebase. You're talking out of your ass unless you have specific metrics.


This is wrong, people are using remote nodes using lightwallet (gui) or simplewallet (cli) regularly. There was just an improvement committed to this that speeds up first-sync by orders of magnitude.


Maybe. Somewhat subjective but in any case the inflation is certainly declining rapidly.


Certainly misleading. There have been major improvements over two years since the fork. I wouldn't consider the original to have a viable solution, only the outline of one. It is certainly no longer at all competitive with Monero in terms of delivered privacy (and that's not even including the upcoming RingCT improvements).

It's also not "the only thing it has going for it". There are other valuable features such as the proven elastic block size, simplified and space-efficient transaction format, use of well-vetted and highly-efficient djb crypto codes, etc.

2 minutes is fast compared to Bitcoin yes, but let's not call 20 minute confirmations the norm. Anything above few seconds has no use as a daily currency, see cash payments. Rational experts according to you.


Monero developers spent the last year fixing bugs mostly. Github is proof.


Still slow and the tech is way behind some competitors.


Seems high to me considering any rise attempt gets dumped back since the existence of Monero. Either the inflation is high or botnets dump monero constantly (and they have low to no costs of mining) or people simply don't believe Monero should be higher. Seems currently Monero is on it's way to 0.0014 again thus even losing the battle of "store of value" compared to DASH and it already lost the currency title (see previously).


Improving shouldn't equal to creating something. I would rather see a new currency released by the bytecoin/cryptonote team, with fair distribution. They seem way more knowledged in the field.

Sure, no one disagrees with that. If and when Monero has any chance in hell of being used for retail payments (which no crypto is today to any significant degree, including Bitcoin) it will have some layered solution. At this point such a thing would be useless, and the technology to do it right (not some candy-for-speculators "instant transactions" that only works because no one is seriously trying to break it, or because it has latent centralization) doesn't quite exist yet.


'Mostly' is not true when you consider major efforts on things like LMDB support, performance, cryptography for RingCT, etc. Bug fixes are usually small so there are many individual commits. I don't see any difference compared to other coins with active development and that actually discloses individual code changes on github (some projects do bulk commits to hide their work -- we don't). In a similar conversation recently with a Dash supporter, I pointed out that nearly all of the last 20 commits on Dash are also bug fixes. That's how software development works.

Either way, you haven't shown that there are more bugs in the code now than other coins.


I've not seen anyone complain about the speed, other than first-sync. When I tried it (once -- I usually use my own full node though), it was pretty fast. Certainly fast enough for current uses as a leading edge experiment and speculation given that significant point of sale usage for any crypto doesn't exist and won't exist any time soon (see above). And for that matter, 99.9% of what little point-of-sale stuff does exist today is usually unsafe Bitcoin zeroconf which you can do with Monero as well.


The market decides the value, I don't, and I don't really care either. The work on the technology continues, that's what most of our community is interested in (with some exceptions who are pure speculators and want to trade swings sure). Nice how you admit that you have no idea what the inflation rate is, or how it compares to other coins. You simply comment on the price, which is a pretty silly criticism considering the price is higher than all but 9 or 10 of the other cryptos in existence (and the market cap is higher than at any time in the coin's history except the very recent peak).


No, it is often worth far more. Are you are aware that most important products today are built from pre-existing software, usually open source but sometimes not (iOS -- XNU/BSD/KHTML, etc., Android -- Linux/Java/KHTML/etc., countless others), which are then combined, repackaged, and improved to make them more useful. Monero has done much the same, combining Cryptonote with LMDB, libunbound, probably a few other libraries I'm not remembering, and stuff we've developed on our own (OpenAlias, MRL improvements, RingCT, etc.) That's how software is done.

I'd apply this to Vcash too, by the way, if your scumbag developer didn't lie about using Bitcoin's code. There is nothing wrong with using Bitcoin's code and building on it (like say Dash), if the end result is good, just don't misrepresent it.


They did release some. Most of the other Cryptonote clone coins were run by them. They all lacked the development and community support of Monero and died. The whole game for them was trying to scam us with a hidden 82% premine. When that failed, the torch passed to Monero.

He is not "my" developer, I have no official connections to Vcash. This discussion was not about Vcash, no need to put your butthurt irrelevant opinions into the discussion. I am invested in several crypto-currencies.

I won't adress the rest of the points as my contribution in this topic was not made to argue with you. Anyone can decide for themselves if my points are accurate or not. You are obviously over invested into Monero, also you are a "core member", even tho I am not sure what that means at this point, since you are obviously not developing as much as you are using this forum (by orders of magnitude).

Also the name of the thread is "What is Monero's Problem?", you don't seem to contribute to that in any form and if you think Monero has no problems, why is it not even in the top 5 of cryptocurrencies and why is the price falling?

Some of the monero most prominent members act like bullies in the Bitcointalk forums. And that's a shame.

No, criticizing bad tech is criticizing bad tech and coins built on (you guessed it) bad tech don't like when you point out their bad tech--though I think vcashers are mad because they borrowed code from Satoshi and forgot to thank him/her/them.

You'd think they would be going after dash's market cap as they are in the same quick transaction market, but they also went after Bitcoin, so maybe they have a thing about attacking coins that are doing it the right way, which doesn't make sense, since strategically it would make more sense to go after the coin with similar investor profile or after a less technically proficient user base that can be more easily swayed by FUD--but whatever.... I'm sure they think they know what they're doing  ::)

Monero have waste member base.

Dont you think that keep opening such threads and was opened or nekroed liek 10 last week are bullying Monero?  

Coins that put tons into marketing. Sponsor most viewed altcoin podcast open threads here and claim how much Monero spends for marketing. And everyone can see it dont, and was almost nothing done in that direction.

For me when you state truth is far from bulling someone. You help those that are not informed and you even help that coin to maybe change something.


Lying is bullying. And i am disappointed on how altcoin part of forum is managed, since moderators dont help weed constant lies out.

In last 2 years there was numerous weeks when there was 5 Threads made here full of lies of Monero and then another 5 of same people why there's so much spam of Monero. That is also their marketing. And that is called bully marketing if you ask me. And trust me at end such marketing will return as a boomerang.

One of Monero's biggest problems is that they have attracted a load of trolls into their community. This is one of the really offputting things for me

How's that working for Monero btw?

I have a hunch that it would make even more sense to work on your own coin and its ecosystem than go after other coins though.

Ceti, are you implying that I've done any of those things to you? Or is this just another weak attempt to throw shit at the wall and see what sticks? Do you really think so little of the community that you think they can be swayed with unsubstantiated rhetoric--I know this is all you need in dashland, but here you're gonna have to do better.

Don't get me wrong, some or even several of those in the Monero community I consider to be my friends. For example, generalizethis and I have gotten along very well lately, but that perhaps has only been since I was writing in support of Monero and against "shitcoins" lately. Note please see my prior message (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219023.msg14863099#msg14863099) wherein I explained that my attitude towards "shitcoins" has matured.

Monero has a community that attacks and belittles anyone who claims to have any technical innovation. How does that help us advance the state-of-the-art?

Their cryptographer Shen-noether was very arrogant and condescending to me when I offered to discuss their RingCT design because I had also independently designed ZKT before they did and mine used the CCT instead of CT. They were very offended that anyone else could have possibly designed something before they did.

Just the other day I posted in Monero's thread to let them know I had a new technical discovery and they ridicule me.

So yes I think revenge is appropriate. The appropriate revenge is proving them wrong by releasing a coin with my new technology.


I want to teach those who ridicule me that they only motivate me to compete against them, rather than to join and help them. I tried to be helpful with them several times, and they can only perceive it negatively. I really don't understand their community. Most acrimonious community I've ever come across. They insult each other daily in the Monero Speculation thread talking about useless crap that doesn't matter. They need Smooth to act as a dictator to censor posts just to keep them from not turning the thread into a continuous flame war.

Followers can be interested in lots of coins, but ultimately they choose the one that can earn them the most money and the one with the best technology.

I will continue to be supportive in your efforts wherever they lead--though why they're leading to a coin built like an oligarchy is beyond me. There's no way I can support dash's centralized design, but if you fix their privacy issues, good--at least people buying the coin for privacy won't be getting ripped off in that department. Whatever happened between you and Shen is between the two of you, but I respect both of you and hope it isn't a permanent rift as talent is tough to find in this community and both of you have that in spades.

I have no problem with threads that want to discuss the technology of various coins, and/or to discuss the fairness of the distribution and speculation ecosystem of a coin.

You know I have enjoined and even lead some of those discussions, believing that I was justified to point that shoddy technology was being hyped as more than it really is, and/or that false market caps are being created by insiders buying from themselves.

But I also realized when to let it go. It is clear to me after watching the ETH bubble burst then reignite and the DAO bubble underway, and Lisk, Iota, etc.. that the speculators here want this.

Who are you and I to dominate the entire forum telling them all to stop gambling? That is their right.

We warned the developers about potential incrimination. What more should we do?

I decided to stop wasting my time trying to tame the Wild West. Much better to find myself a bull to ride and let the SEC do its job when it wants to.

What is ironic after all, is Monero and Zcash may not have the best anonymity technology. I have a surprise coming. I even surprised myself. And I also surprised my secret co-developer. Yes you all didn't know I have a secret co-developer. I prefer to let people underestimate me. All this time you all thought I was working alone. Hahaha.


Vcash's Zerotime can't scale to 100,000 txns/sec.

My issue with Vcash is John doesn't publish all the specifics. He doesn't want us to peer review his technology. And thus we can safely assume the technology has weaknesses he doesn't want us to see. Because there is already a pattern of weaknesses. Zerotime can't scale well but he never points that out. And it is also theoretically susceptible to a Sybil attack although that attack won't happen while the network is well controlled by insiders.

But if speculators want to invest in Vcash, then I am not going to tell them what to do. Maybe John will surprise us all. The speculators have their own decision and can speculate and promote what ever they want.

Is there actually some sort of proof that the coin's network is controlled by botnets?

What happened between Shen and I can never be patched up. Same as the relationship between Gmaxwell and I can never be patched up. I saw already the way they treat others. People don't change. Yeah I will tell someone they are an idiot, but only after giving them many chances to not be. I try my best to give people a fair shake. Whereas, Shen and Gmax disrespect people who are obviously not idiots. I don't even disrespect people who frustrate me with their inability to comprehend. I just get frustrated because I am only one man and I can't write 3000 posts per day to cure everyone's misconceptions. The solution to that was letting go. Just stop trying to communicate to everyone. Just pick my spots to communicate more selectively. As for those who habitually look down on others and not even giving them a fair shake, well they earn my ire and burn the flame inside me white hot. I really hate people who can't appreciate others as human beings. Everyone deserves the benefit-of-the-doubt and a fair hearing.

It is so ironic actually. It may end up that masternodes are a superior solution for scaling anonymity to the masses than Monero's on chain ring sigs or Zcash's zk-snarks. Note I didn't say masternodes for mining nor for governance (nor oligarchy controlled from an instamine). Rather for a specific feature of scaling anonymity.

And then we get very performant DEX (decentralized exchange) out of that new design as well.

It actually surprised me. I was thinking on chain anonymity was the holy grail. But the problem set paradigm shifted.

Here are the potential advantages my co-developer and I quickly enumerated today in chat:

Co-dev: "so ours is less bloat, prunable, more anonymous, quantum-computing resistant, more performant, and IP shielding"
myself: "and our anonymity sets are huge, potentially 1000s per mix"

Note that ours will have the weakness compared to RingCT/Zcash that we won't hide values so the mixing will be limited to transactions that people choose to mix with specific denominations (which is the way the current Monero works). I don't think we plan to mix every single transaction and have a complex wallet like Monero. Monero will simplify that when they implement RingCT. But RingCT can never scale to every (micro) transactions of the masses.

Any way I am talking off the top of my head and too prematurely. I need to go write some of these specs down.


If we proceed to launch a new coin, then I will be joining an existing crypto sphere.  My co-developer is prolific, already has a crypto community, already has an anonymous coin, and you will all recognize his name.

I am not doing this alone.

However there will be a twist. I will explain maybe tomorrow.

TPTB_need_war have you thought about working at or consulting for some existing project in the crypto sphere rather than creating your own? You seem to be able to criticize anything and everything constructively. That's an amazing asset.

I get it, you're talking to yourself. 

While I try to read now and then Dash or Monero related threads, most of them are the same attacks between Dash supporters and Monero supporters.
People can't read anything useful because of that.

The only useful info I've read are from TWO posts (I'll only link to them)

I have only been a Vcash supporter for 8 months or so.  but I can tell you why I am not going after DASH.

It is because there is enough space for all crypto projects to grow and thrive, I have held a good sum of both Dash and Monero in the past.

now as to why I repeat FUD and technical problems of Monero, it is because your communities marketing tactics have always been to shout the loudest about how every other project has broken or useless tech and how yours is flawless and the best, while clearly having problems of its own.

as Ceti said "All I have done is held up a mirror to your own behavior.

Do you not recognize the person in the reflection?".

My point is that you are going after FOSS projects with legitimate development (BTC a few months back and XMR now), so I'm questioning the strategy and what it hopes to achieve. Are you just mad that someone dares question Connor's use of Bitcoin code without attributing to Satoshi?

It wasnt the what that bugged me, It was the how.

having a conversation on forums about the ethics of crypto, or its possibilites is much different than being bullied by a group of XMR supporters who quickly take any conversation in the direction of screaming REKT!!! or SCAM!!

looks like you have built enough enemies now that you will feel the backlash of all the mistrust and anger that your tactics have created. 

Not really. I don't think XMR or Vcash's price has moved all that much and neither for a gain. The threat of market backlash has been used on Monero before, but in the long run, it neither discourages price or people to say what they mean and mean what they say. A gentleman's agreement between cryptocurrencies (especially the worst ones) doesn't exist--it's a prisoner's dilemma and every coin should be pointing out technical flaws--hype and FUD are just delaying the inevitable. Monero and Bitcoin communities criticize each other on technical merits, and for the most part, it never gets out of hand or personal--I think the scammier coins (at least subconsciously) know their shortcomings and get emotional when they're pointed out for everyone to see.

are you really totally absolutely sure about that ?  :-\

https://i.imgur.com/tFJEhIA.jpg

 I see that the usual Monero supporters are flowing in and try to go off-topic, but the thread is still "What is Monero's Problem?". Please try to throw in your ideas/bulletpoints and don't come with the "Monero is pefect as is", the price action seems to indicate something else.

I don't stare at charts all day, but the few times I've looked it has been between -3 to +3% for the day for vcash and 0 to -3% for Monero--hardly an earth shattering (or even relevant) market move.

Monero's problem? Look at the chart 3 posts above :D

OK, Moneros problem is that Monero holders dont want to get rich fast.

Or, hmm, maybe that is not a problem at all.


As i stated before. Bitcoin talk Forum problem are such thread like this and the group of people that makes them. Since they want that their coins which have most likely no use, gain value.

And 3/4  people that "flow" in this thread are them.  

"usual Monero supporters" are a minority in such threads as usually.
 

So your opinion is that Monero is perfect as it is right now, both as a currency and as a store of value?

Please stay on topic. I didn't really see anyone advertise anything here, Smooth was the first to mention 2 competitor coins.

Isn't the premise of being a Monero community member that you absolutely by all means have to unconditionally love the coin and praise its perfection? It is perfect! Cause it is Monero. Ask Riesto if he's not currently in therapy and he'll confirm. Thank you.

oh another sockpuppet in the making? Register Date April 2016 but pointing on the old risto therapy story? Nice to out yourself

@traumschiff

None currency is perfect. Just browse this forum and you will see that Monero can advance in myna fields.

Thread was started to FUD Monero by soem other coin shill. With only reason so in this thread or another will be said that Monero shills spam forum. That is marketing  it seems many or just soem coins use. You can call it "advertising" if you like.

@prettybuds

Monero is just a anon coin you dont need to love it lol.
But again, is time that same group of people stop spreading lies as they do last 2 years. If I reply on your thread and your friends threads and ask to stop making new threads like this, that is not "unconditionally love", but is a common sense.

I know it will not help since that is your coin marketing. lol

I've been reading Bitcointalk since 2012. ;)

I didn't know you yet however, nice to meet you!


Besides! I personally don't really care about any anon coin, I dunno why you people always think anyone posting is a supporter of any anon coin.

You are doomed! The only coin of the future is Monero, it runs hella smooth. Understand that already.

/s

Out of curiosity, what fields exactly? Also what are your thoughts on Monero as a technologically viable currency or a store of value?

And what would be Monero's potential problems?

Doesn't matter what the OPs motivation for the thread is, he asked a question. Nothing wrong with the question.

On my opinion OP motivations matters a lot. Normally any question you started can be asked in ANN thread, no need to open such threads daily. I suggest you to read ANN thread a bit and you will find many "thoughts on Monero as a technologically viable currency or a store of value?" and also many problems Monero surpassed and also many "Monero's potential problems?"  My personal opinion of this 2 matters have little weight. If at any time i will fell to statue any i will do it there.

Good call. As a "monero supporter", but in general a cryptocurrency supporter looking for a viable solution for a trustless, decentralized value storage and transfer system, I think the problems with Monero are as follows:

1) Difficult and purposefully obfuscated inherited codebase.

Because Monero was forked from bytecoin, and in an attempt to secure their code from forks and/or hide the scamminess (de-optimized miner, for example) the bytecoin developers removed all comments from the code, Monero is notoriously difficult to develop. I have witnessed numbers of developers pop into the IRC channel and have an interest in working on the code, only to be met with "Yeah, thats not documented that well and the dude that knows that section isn't here right now, but if you stick around they'll probably pop back in."

This problem is slowly getting better through the natural process of monero developers commenting code as they improve the software, and the direct funding of developers to painstakingly go through the codebase and document it. See here: https://forum.getmonero.org/22/completed-tasks/2373/documentation-and-cleanup-of-source-code

2) "The Monero Problem" that I outlined here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1139756.msg14588629#msg14588629

This might actually be a cool cryptography problem that is borne of the fact that for a ring signature, you need to select outputs, and the distribution of output selection might lead to information leak of some kind. I was hoping this would intrigue TPTB_need_war, but it didn't. Oh well. I think i came across a good search term "cryptography subset selection" might have led me to one article in the literature, but there wasn't much else.

The solution to this problem is being actively researched (or at least thought about) by some people.

3) Auto fee adjustment

I hold the opinion that the best cryptocurrency network is the network that does not need human intervention to adapt to existing conditions. Currently, most (all?) cryptocurrency networks use a minimum transaction fee mechanisms as a means to prevent network flooding. This minimum fee requires manual adjusting as the "fiat" price of the currency changes. How to automatically adjust this fee is a matter of ongoing research.

In my opinion, these are the 3 primary technical hurdles.

The rest of Monero's "problems" relate to the unique result of fusing free open source software directly to money.

Edited to add:
I'll add a final problem. I can't code. This tech fascinates me so much if I could turn my thoughts into bits there'd probably be another 100 commits, at least. Instead I just write bash scripts to make it easier for others to use.

exactly

Except that it really doesn't. Who is to say what the "right" price should be? If Monero had lost 99.9% of its value and were trading at $10K market cap from the usual range these days of $9 or $10 million, then you would have a point. But it hasn't and you don't.

Of course Monero isn't perfect, that's silly. But if your measure of success and merit is "price action", then we all just stick with Bitcoin (priced at anywhere from ten times to a million times higher than anything else) and forget all the rest, which many cryptocurrency advocates literally believe to be fair.

So the problem is that cryptocurrencies are volatile? What did Dash just do in the past 24 hours, or what Ethereum does on a regular basis, or Bitcoin occasionally (though it seems to have lost a bit of a its volatility recently) or any of the others that people actually pay attention to. The only ones with really, really low volatility are the flatline ones.

WTF, seriously?!

Just an addendum:
Exploit 13 was found and reported by John Connor to monero devs months ago.
Even after the devs and trolls from monero community try to destroy Vcash with fud and lies, John Connor informed the exploit because he thought that would be able to make the worms stop with their slanders.
Well, he saved monero once the problem was solved, but after this the trolls and fudders unscrupulous and without ethics back to attack him again
Now, after a new thread was created by smooth to slander JC and Vcash, he found other 12 zeroday exploits.
Do you really think he will help monero community again?

http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q744/EmilioMann/Captura%20de%20Tela%202016-05-16%20as%2017.54.11_zpsubxupc40.png (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/EmilioMann/media/Captura%20de%20Tela%202016-05-16%20as%2017.54.11_zpsubxupc40.png.html)

It was not.

We received no reports from him about anything. He's provided no proof of anything beyond commenting on a vulnerability after it was already public.

Even after Craig Wright, people still fall for this shit?

I think monero supporters have a fair launched PoW coin to spruke, which compared to many scam coins, is far superior, so they're in the right in arguments, so can come across 'strong'