What is Monero's Problem?

[afbitcoins]

One of Monero's biggest problems is that they have attracted a load of trolls into their community. This is one of the really offputting things for me

[illodin]

strategically it would make more sense to go after the coin with similar investor profile or after a less technically proficient user base that can be more easily swayed by FUD

How's that working for Monero btw?

I have a hunch that it would make even more sense to work on your own coin and its ecosystem than go after other coins though.

[generalizethis]

What is Monero's Problem?

Some of the monero most prominent members act like bullies in the Bitcointalk forums. And that's a shame.

No, criticizing bad tech is criticizing bad tech and coins built on (you guessed it) bad tech don't like when you point out their bad tech--though I think vcashers are mad because they borrowed code from Satoshi and forgot to thank him/her/them.

You'd think they would be going after dash's market cap as they are in the same quick transaction market, but they also went after Bitcoin, so maybe they have a thing about attacking coins that are doing it the right way, which doesn't make sense, since strategically it would make more sense to go after the coin with similar investor profile or after a less technically proficient user base that can be more easily swayed by FUD--but whatever.... I'm sure they think they know what they're doing 

speaking of bullies, criminals and stalkers.......

Ceti, are you implying that I've done any of those things to you? Or is this just another weak attempt to throw shit at the wall and see what sticks? Do you really think so little of the community that you think they can be swayed with unsubstantiated rhetoric--I know this is all you need in dashland, but here you're gonna have to do better.

[TPTB_need_war]

So now I am shopping around for someone who can take my technical idea and make it a Monero-killer asap. So I can teach your community a lesson that they deserve.

I don't think any coin has a distinct 'community' as such, and there aren't tribes ready to go to war with each other. I like monero, and about 20 other decent alts, and btc off course too, so I'm in all of those 'communities, and when you launch your own JAMBOX I'll probably support that, so I'll be part of your community too.

Don't get me wrong, some or even several of those in the Monero community I consider to be my friends. For example, generalizethis and I have gotten along very well lately, but that perhaps has only been since I was writing in support of Monero and against "shitcoins" lately. Note please see my prior message wherein I explained that my attitude towards "shitcoins" has matured.

Monero has a community that attacks and belittles anyone who claims to have any technical innovation. How does that help us advance the state-of-the-art?

Their cryptographer Shen-noether was very arrogant and condescending to me when I offered to discuss their RingCT design because I had also independently designed ZKT before they did and mine used the CCT instead of CT. They were very offended that anyone else could have possibly designed something before they did.

Just the other day I posted in Monero's thread to let them know I had a new technical discovery and they ridicule me.

So yes I think revenge is appropriate. The appropriate revenge is proving them wrong by releasing a coin with my new technology.

I think most crypto followers are interested in lots of coins, so if your motivation is to teach the monero community a lesson I think you'll just push people away from your project. I love football, but I don't like hooligans who use it as an excuse to fight. I want to see a great match. It's the same here; if your project is cool people will support it, and it can co-exist with monero and lots of other coins. But if you're motivated by 'revenge' you'll ultimately fail IMO

I want to teach those who ridicule me that they only motivate me to compete against them, rather than to join and help them. I tried to be helpful with them several times, and they can only perceive it negatively. I really don't understand their community. Most acrimonious community I've ever come across. They insult each other daily in the Monero Speculation thread talking about useless crap that doesn't matter. They need Smooth to act as a dictator to censor posts just to keep them from not turning the thread into a continuous flame war.

Followers can be interested in lots of coins, but ultimately they choose the one that can earn them the most money and the one with the best technology.

[generalizethis]

So now I am shopping around for someone who can take my technical idea and make it a Monero-killer asap. So I can teach your community a lesson that they deserve.

I don't think any coin has a distinct 'community' as such, and there aren't tribes ready to go to war with each other. I like monero, and about 20 other decent alts, and btc off course too, so I'm in all of those 'communities, and when you launch your own JAMBOX I'll probably support that, so I'll be part of your community too.

Don't get me wrong, some or even several of those in the Monero community I consider to be my friends. For example, generalizethis and I have gotten along very well lately, but that perhaps has only been since I was writing in support of Monero and against shitcoins lately.

I will continue to be supportive in your efforts wherever they lead--though why they're leading to a coin built like an oligarchy is beyond me. There's no way I can support dash's centralized design, but if you fix their privacy issues, good--at least people buying the coin for privacy won't be getting ripped off in that department. Whatever happened between you and Shen is between the two of you, but I respect both of you and hope it isn't a permanent rift as talent is tough to find in this community and both of you have that in spades.

[TPTB_need_war]

What is Monero's Problem?

Some of the monero most prominent members act like bullies in the Bitcointalk forums. And that's a shame.

No, criticizing bad tech is criticizing bad tech and coins built on (you guessed it) bad tech don't like when you point out their bad tech--though I think vcashers are mad because they borrowed code from Satoshi and forgot to thank him/her/them.

I have no problem with threads that want to discuss the technology of various coins, and/or to discuss the fairness of the distribution and speculation ecosystem of a coin.

You know I have enjoined and even lead some of those discussions, believing that I was justified to point that shoddy technology was being hyped as more than it really is, and/or that false market caps are being created by insiders buying from themselves.

But I also realized when to let it go. It is clear to me after watching the ETH bubble burst then reignite and the DAO bubble underway, and Lisk, Iota, etc.. that the speculators here want this.

Who are you and I to dominate the entire forum telling them all to stop gambling? That is their right.

We warned the developers about potential incrimination. What more should we do?

I decided to stop wasting my time trying to tame the Wild West. Much better to find myself a bull to ride and let the SEC do its job when it wants to.

What is ironic after all, is Monero and Zcash may not have the best anonymity technology. I have a surprise coming. I even surprised myself. And I also surprised my secret co-developer. Yes you all didn't know I have a secret co-developer. I prefer to let people underestimate me. All this time you all thought I was working alone. Hahaha.

You'd think they would be going after dash's market cap as they are in the same quick transaction market, but they also went after Bitcoin, so maybe they have a thing about attacking coins that are doing it the right way, which doesn't make sense, since strategically it would make more sense to go after the coin with similar investor profile or after a less technically proficient user base that can be more easily swayed by FUD--but whatever.... I'm sure they think they know what they're doing  

Vcash's Zerotime can't scale to 100,000 txns/sec.

My issue with Vcash is John doesn't publish all the specifics. He doesn't want us to peer review his technology. And thus we can safely assume the technology has weaknesses he doesn't want us to see. Because there is already a pattern of weaknesses. Zerotime can't scale well but he never points that out. And it is also theoretically susceptible to a Sybil attack although that attack won't happen while the network is well controlled by insiders.

But if speculators want to invest in Vcash, then I am not going to tell them what to do. Maybe John will surprise us all. The speculators have their own decision and can speculate and promote what ever they want.

[prettybuds]

Being a botnet exclusive coin and all the retarded xmr shill spam certainly doesn't help.

Is there actually some sort of proof that the coin's network is controlled by botnets?

[TPTB_need_war]

So now I am shopping around for someone who can take my technical idea and make it a Monero-killer asap. So I can teach your community a lesson that they deserve.

I don't think any coin has a distinct 'community' as such, and there aren't tribes ready to go to war with each other. I like monero, and about 20 other decent alts, and btc off course too, so I'm in all of those 'communities, and when you launch your own JAMBOX I'll probably support that, so I'll be part of your community too.

Don't get me wrong, some or even several of those in the Monero community I consider to be my friends. For example, generalizethis and I have gotten along very well lately, but that perhaps has only been since I was writing in support of Monero and against shitcoins lately.

I will continue to be supportive in your efforts wherever they lead--though why they're leading to a coin built like an oligarchy is beyond me. There's no way I can support dash's centralized design, but if you fix their privacy issues, good--at least people buying the coin for privacy won't be getting ripped off in that department. Whatever happened between you and Shen is between the two of you, but I respect both of you and hope it isn't a permanent rift as talent is tough to find in this community and both of you have that in spades.

What happened between Shen and I can never be patched up. Same as the relationship between Gmaxwell and I can never be patched up. I saw already the way they treat others. People don't change. Yeah I will tell someone they are an idiot, but only after giving them many chances to not be. I try my best to give people a fair shake. Whereas, Shen and Gmax disrespect people who are obviously not idiots. I don't even disrespect people who frustrate me with their inability to comprehend. I just get frustrated because I am only one man and I can't write 3000 posts per day to cure everyone's misconceptions. The solution to that was letting go. Just stop trying to communicate to everyone. Just pick my spots to communicate more selectively. As for those who habitually look down on others and not even giving them a fair shake, well they earn my ire and burn the flame inside me white hot. I really hate people who can't appreciate others as human beings. Everyone deserves the benefit-of-the-doubt and a fair hearing.

It is so ironic actually. It may end up that masternodes are a superior solution for scaling anonymity to the masses than Monero's on chain ring sigs or Zcash's zk-snarks. Note I didn't say masternodes for mining nor for governance (nor oligarchy controlled from an instamine). Rather for a specific feature of scaling anonymity.

And then we get very performant DEX (decentralized exchange) out of that new design as well.

It actually surprised me. I was thinking on chain anonymity was the holy grail. But the problem set paradigm shifted.

Here are the potential advantages my co-developer and I quickly enumerated today in chat:

Co-dev: "so ours is less bloat, prunable, more anonymous, quantum-computing resistant, more performant, and IP shielding"
myself: "and our anonymity sets are huge, potentially 1000s per mix"

Note that ours will have the weakness compared to RingCT/Zcash that we won't hide values so the mixing will be limited to transactions that people choose to mix with specific denominations (which is the way the current Monero works). I don't think we plan to mix every single transaction and have a complex wallet like Monero. Monero will simplify that when they implement RingCT. But RingCT can never scale to every (micro) transactions of the masses.

Any way I am talking off the top of my head and too prematurely. I need to go write some of these specs down.

TPTB_need_war have you thought about working at or consulting for some existing project in the crypto sphere rather than creating your own? You seem to be able to criticize anything and everything constructively. That's an amazing asset.

If we proceed to launch a new coin, then I will be joining an existing crypto sphere.  My co-developer is prolific, already has a crypto community, already has an anonymous coin, and you will all recognize his name.

I am not doing this alone.

However there will be a twist. I will explain maybe tomorrow.

[somacoin]

TPTB_need_war have you thought about working at or consulting for some existing project in the crypto sphere rather than creating your own? You seem to be able to criticize anything and everything constructively. That's an amazing asset.

[generalizethis]

What is Monero's Problem?

Some of the monero most prominent members act like bullies in the Bitcointalk forums. And that's a shame.

No, criticizing bad tech is criticizing bad tech and coins built on (you guessed it) bad tech don't like when you point out their bad tech--though I think vcashers are mad because they borrowed code from Satoshi and forgot to thank him/her/them.

You'd think they would be going after dash's market cap as they are in the same quick transaction market, but they also went after Bitcoin, so maybe they have a thing about attacking coins that are doing it the right way, which doesn't make sense, since strategically it would make more sense to go after the coin with similar investor profile or after a less technically proficient user base that can be more easily swayed by FUD--but whatever.... I'm sure they think they know what they're doing  

speaking of bullies, criminals and stalkers.......

Ceti, are you implying that I've done any of those things to you? Or is this just another weak attempt to throw shit at the wall and see what sticks? Do you really think so little of the community that you think they can be swayed with unsubstantiated rhetoric--I know this is all you need in dashland, but here you're gonna have to do better.

All I have done is held up a mirror to your own behavior.

Do you not recognize the person in the reflection?

I get it, you're talking to yourself. 

[NeuroticFish]

While I try to read now and then Dash or Monero related threads, most of them are the same attacks between Dash supporters and Monero supporters.
People can't read anything useful because of that.

The only useful info I've read are from TWO posts (I'll only link to them)

[bigfryguy]

I have only been a Vcash supporter for 8 months or so.  but I can tell you why I am not going after DASH.

It is because there is enough space for all crypto projects to grow and thrive, I have held a good sum of both Dash and Monero in the past.

now as to why I repeat FUD and technical problems of Monero, it is because your communities marketing tactics have always been to shout the loudest about how every other project has broken or useless tech and how yours is flawless and the best, while clearly having problems of its own.

as Ceti said "All I have done is held up a mirror to your own behavior.

Do you not recognize the person in the reflection?".

[generalizethis]

I have only been a Vcash supporter for 8 months or so.  but I can tell you why I am not going after DASH.

It is because there is enough space for all crypto projects to grow and thrive, I have held a good sum of both Dash and Monero in the past.

now as to why I repeat FUD and technical problems of Monero, it is because your communities marketing tactics have always been to shout the loudest about how every other project has broken or useless tech and how yours is flawless and the best, while clearly having problems of its own.

as Ceti said "All I have done is held up a mirror to your own behavior.

Do you not recognize the person in the reflection?".

My point is that you are going after FOSS projects with legitimate development (BTC a few months back and XMR now), so I'm questioning the strategy and what it hopes to achieve. Are you just mad that someone dares question Connor's use of Bitcoin code without attributing to Satoshi?

[bigfryguy]

It wasnt the what that bugged me, It was the how.

having a conversation on forums about the ethics of crypto, or its possibilites is much different than being bullied by a group of XMR supporters who quickly take any conversation in the direction of screaming REKT!!! or SCAM!!

looks like you have built enough enemies now that you will feel the backlash of all the mistrust and anger that your tactics have created. 

[generalizethis]

It wasnt the what that bugged me, It was the how.

having a conversation on forums about the ethics of crypto, or its possibilites is much different than being bullied by a group of XMR supporters who quickly take any conversation in the direction of screaming REKT!!! or SCAM!!

looks like you have built enough enemies now that you will feel the backlash of all the mistrust and anger that your tactics have created. 

Not really. I don't think XMR or Vcash's price has moved all that much and neither for a gain. The threat of market backlash has been used on Monero before, but in the long run, it neither discourages price or people to say what they mean and mean what they say. A gentleman's agreement between cryptocurrencies (especially the worst ones) doesn't exist--it's a prisoner's dilemma and every coin should be pointing out technical flaws--hype and FUD are just delaying the inevitable. Monero and Bitcoin communities criticize each other on technical merits, and for the most part, it never gets out of hand or personal--I think the scammier coins (at least subconsciously) know their shortcomings and get emotional when they're pointed out for everyone to see.

[qwizzie]

It wasnt the what that bugged me, It was the how.

having a conversation on forums about the ethics of crypto, or its possibilites is much different than being bullied by a group of XMR supporters who quickly take any conversation in the direction of screaming REKT!!! or SCAM!!

looks like you have built enough enemies now that you will feel the backlash of all the mistrust and anger that your tactics have created.  

Not really. I don't think XMR or Vcash's price has moved all that much and neither for a gain. The threat of market backlash has been used on Monero before, but in the long run, it neither discourages price

are you really totally absolutely sure about that ? 

[traumschiff]

 I see that the usual Monero supporters are flowing in and try to go off-topic, but the thread is still "What is Monero's Problem?". Please try to throw in your ideas/bulletpoints and don't come with the "Monero is pefect as is", the price action seems to indicate something else.

[generalizethis]

It wasnt the what that bugged me, It was the how.

having a conversation on forums about the ethics of crypto, or its possibilites is much different than being bullied by a group of XMR supporters who quickly take any conversation in the direction of screaming REKT!!! or SCAM!!

looks like you have built enough enemies now that you will feel the backlash of all the mistrust and anger that your tactics have created.  

Not really. I don't think XMR or Vcash's price has moved all that much and neither for a gain. The threat of market backlash has been used on Monero before, but in the long run, it neither discourages price

are you really totally absolutely sure about that ? 

I don't stare at charts all day, but the few times I've looked it has been between -3 to +3% for the day for vcash and 0 to -3% for Monero--hardly an earth shattering (or even relevant) market move.

[Macrochip]

Monero's problem? Look at the chart 3 posts above

[Febo]

I see that the usual Monero supporters are flowing in and try to go off-topic, but the thread is still "What is Monero's Problem?". Please try to throw in your ideas/bulletpoints and don't come with the "Monero is pefect as is", the price action seems to indicate something else.

OK, Moneros problem is that Monero holders dont want to get rich fast.

Or, hmm, maybe that is not a problem at all.


As i stated before. Bitcoin talk Forum problem are such thread like this and the group of people that makes them. Since they want that their coins which have most likely no use, gain value.

And 3/4  people that "flow" in this thread are them.  

"usual Monero supporters" are a minority in such threads as usually.