Bitcoin Forum

Satoshi brought us Digital Gold. He intentionally gave it a public ledger. Knowing the big banking cartels and wall st goons would pick it up. It was designed for the future. A future that keeps the super rich/wealthy honest. - maybe in the future you will prefer to store your family savings in BTC vs XMR. However, day to day currency may end up being something else. - would you want your employer knowing where the BTC they send you goes? - XMR solves those small issues and other larger ones. Actually, the cryptonote whitepaper is a great read and I do recommend anyone interested in good cryptography to give this a read. This is exactly what we needed. Also, I think the word "Monero" fits great. Esperanto could very well be a key language to know in the future. Like crypto, Esperanto is not only a "structured thing" created by us, it also creates a level playing field for everyone. Imagine going to a different country and not having to worry about learning a new language? Esperanto could be the default language of the universe. Think about the advantages there and I suggest you google and research what the benefits of Esperanto could create for the world. I am not saying forget your culture and your language, I am simply saying this could be a great extra language to help create better relationships and business ties across the globe.


CRYPTONOTE WHITEPAPER:  https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf

CryptoNote is based on many early works and protocols and takes into consideration several issues raised among the Bitcoin community. Below is the list of most important papers and events that have influenced CryptoNote:

1983 – Blind signatures described by David Chaum
1997 – HashCash (an instance of a proof-of-work system) invented by Adam Back
2001 – Ron Rivest, Adi Shamir, and Yael Tauman proposed ring signatures to the cryptographic community
2004 – Patrick P. Tsang and Victor K. proposed using the ring signature system for voting and electronic cash
2008 – Bitcoin whitepaper published by Satoshi Nakamoto
2011 – An Analysis of Anonymity in the Bitcoin System, Fergal Reid and Martin Harrigan
2012 – Destination Address Anonymity in Bitcoin (one-time addresses in CryptoNote).

2014 - Monero is born

ROGER VER ON XMR:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/4n5tlo/le36_roger_ver_and_erik_voorhees_scaling_debate/d435o3d

PETER TODD ON XMR:
http://bitcoin-development.narkive.com/mH0GrHuE/libconsensus-and-bitcoin-development-process#post7

Quote from Theymos the great:


BLAST FROM THE PAST: Is the future finally here?

1. http://www.wired.com/1994/12/emoney/

2. http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.805/articles/money/nsamint/nsamint.htm

3. http://www.nytimes.com/1994/12/31/us/computer-jokes-and-threats-ignite-debate-on-anonymity.html?pagewanted=all

4. http://osaka.law.miami.edu/~froomkin/articles/cfp97.htm

5. http://www.cs.utah.edu/~kmay/look/digital/Laundry.htm

6. http://www.forbes.com/forbes/1997/0908/6005172a.html  -"There is another dimension to the spread of crypto. The same mathematical tricks used to encode a message can be run in reverse, to generate a so-called digital signature. This is a computer stamp of authenticity. It can be used to prove that an electronic document originated with a particular sender, such as a bank depositor or a bank officer. Assemble a few digital signatures in a clever fashion and you have created a mechanism for digital cash;a system of electronic payments akin to Visa or MasterCard but with the added feature that it can be made anonymous." - FORBES 1997


POSTS ON BITCOIN + ANONYMITY BY SATOSHI:

1. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=8
2. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=13.msg15997365#msg15997365
3. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7.new#new

That post was made 2 months ago.

Perhaps he is accumulating quietly much like the winklevoss twins are probably doing (and did with BTC).

Maybe he accumulate when the price was 0.003, now he has tripled the btc worth of holding.  :o :o

This might be the next big thing. How could we not have seen it before? It was using Bitcoin's formula to success. A slow but secure development process, darknet market penetration as a preferred currency and whales secretly accumulating all along. Theymos must be holding some in cold storage seeing that he made that statement.

Now I am kicking myself again because I missed BTC and now this one. :(

I cant stand that post as serious because you didn't mentioned creation of Ethereum as it is very important step in blockchain evolution.

It looks like just a fanboy post for Monero. Nothing wrong with Monero itself, i think it is interesting project, but your attitude is not noble here.

Ethereum is indeed very important, mainly as an illustration of what one shouldn't do, and the forking experiment of ethereum is of extremely important value to be studied.  Many implicitly assumed mechanisms of block chain behaviour are proven wrong and that's a good thing (to find that out).

if we watch on market about monero in two days ago, we see that the rate of monero is up to high until it reach about 0.0093 if am not wrong and then slowly its turn down until 0.0083 and many of my friends get stuck with the rate of 0.0085-0.0086. i hope its would be back normal in 0.0088 again or even its up again in 0.009  ;D

Its already at 85. Just be patient and HODL.

Maybe it was even earlier.  ;)

You can thank Bitcoin Core for crippling Bitcoin's ability to scale for motivating me to take a look at alt coins.

Being early adopter of Bitcoin or Monero is way different.  I bought my first moneros in beginning of June 2014 when price was around 0.0025BTC so about $1.5 ( month before and month after price was even higher)( BTC price at that time was about same as now).  That was a month and half after release. Price at that time was way higher then was in beginning of this year.  So bigest Monero profiteers are not the ones that bought Monero in April or May of 2014 but  the ones that bought Monero in 2015. when price reach even under $0.25 in February 2015 and not much higher in December 2015 (big influence on price of course had cheap BTC at that time)

Nonne ever got Moneros super cheap, but everyone paid them fairly. That is why no one will treat them as trash and dump them at any price. That is why Monero behaves so different on exchanges as other coins.

i make a good profit last night when it was 0.009 and now i am waiting for next pump  ;D

why is monero so important ? whats differency than btc ?

I can agree - Monero is really good crypto coin. It is sad, that Monero do not have such popularity like ETH - Monero have some nice advantage in the crypto market - transactions are not public. Plus also currently it is possible to make trade with Monero too - price is around 0.007 BTC, two days ago - it was 0.004 BTC.  :) 

chill, you didnt missed (at least not all of it). the price still very good and the DN still in "beta" phase.

monero is fungible, bitcoin is not...

Wow Roger Ver is here. I am going to keep buying/holding XMR not sure about you guys.

Thank you for all your hard work around Bitcoin Roger! I hope XMR is the answer to our problems!

Theymos says it right. The idea is great, we all should have fungible coins and privacy, but the problem is the scaling of Monero is a mess, and Bitcoin can eventually become as private as money, rendering Monero pretty irrelevant at that point. We'll see how it goes, I wish I didn't sell my XMR last month, the price was stagnant and I lost hope.

If you think bitcoin will ever move enough technologically to enable meaningful privacy, you must be smoking crack.  They can't even deal with changing a constant.

...I am selling LISK for XMR. Roger Ver is final confirm on this project for me thank you! - scale issue has been fix and much better than BTC!!!


i BELIEVE in crypto - maybe this will be my fuel to fund this crypto ecosystem further in future? - why invest in another coin when we have private digital money so cheap? - can buy into other ALT later


ANON ALT > ALL OTHER ALTS

maybe one to keep an eye on but I don't think this is any more attractive than any of the other weird little coins we got floating around. we seem to get a new bitcoin killer every few weeks off the basis of one pump. then they're not bitcoin killers any more.

when people say bitcoin's vulnerable to being replaced, all of the alts are truly vulnerable. someone's gonna come up with something that addresses all of the obvious flaws soon.

The problem with your assertion is that Bitcoin and its developers/people/team cannot even find a resolution to a single line of code (changing the block size) and yet your assertion is that they will add the complex features of monero to allow privacy at the protocol level?

Not going to happen. Very unlikely, which makes your point irrelevant.

From Bitcoin Jesus to Bitcoin HATER


 :D

Since the OP mention Esperanto and "Monero" is the Esperanto word for Coin.... I thought I would dig and found these interesting articles for all of you:

1. http://time.com/4417809/esperanto-history-invention/

2. http://www.coindesk.com/can-bitcoin-learn-failure-global-language-esperanto/

3. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=266429.0

I like Monero very much. Very much! It has been a challenging coin to trade in the past but that changed last week. Right now I see Monero in a trading range with two recommendations. First would be to try to buy at a discount by placing a low ball bid on the exchange you like to use. Something below .0074. Second would be to wait for price to break out above .01 and buy on a pullback. If your thing is to keep a chart open all day you will know when to increase your position. Of course many would say any time is a good time to buy Monero:)

I bought in with the current hype at 0.0087 which is pretty typical, Bought almost 500 of them but im starting to panic a bit now.  Hopefully once it gets above that a bit i will just dump these and try and take a small amount of profit. Maybe it will go up in the future but its too risky atm with no sign of a gui or anything.

how the hell is anyone supposed to do any drug business with this type of price madness? they should've made the announcement and then waited a month before actually accepting it. then the pump would be over and they can get down to the serious business of getting people high.

Monero price is evolving inside a symmetrical triangle continuation pattern:

https://bitcoinnewsmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/xmrbtc82416.png

If you want to keep your position open just set your sell stop (you did place a sell stop right?) just below the low price defined by the triangle. Right now that would be sell stop at .0074. At some point in time price will break out of the triangle. If to the upside you win and your sell stop protects you if price breaks down.

xmr will return soon to it's proper place @ 0.0012

Ive not set a stop order yet, Im hoping it wont drop that low or else thats about .5btc down the drain if it does go as low as 0.0074. I bought initially while it was (or appeared)  to be still rising so didnt bother with any stop orders. I will probably be happy getting back my initial amount now =p . you win some you lose some i suppose.

I hope it does drop below 0.0074 hehe, so I can buy in


0.5 BTC is nothing

Is any XMR holder speak ESPERANTO? - we shall all learn together ?..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyV0OfU3-FU


https://www.deepdotweb.com/2016/08/23/alphabay-oasis-markets-begin-accepting-monero-payments/

Need to make a correction: I would set a sell stop at .0073 if you are on the cautious side; if you are willing to take more risk use .0071. Within the next couple of weeks I think we will either see a new all time high or a sharp correction. If you see a sharp correction on heavy volume you should consider buying if you can handle the risk. On an hourly chart of XMR/BTC at Poloniex that would be volume of at least 50000. You want to be buying when others are selling hard so if we have a down day just follow the hourly chart and when volume hits 50000 consider buying. Hard to predict what the price would be at that time. Since the party started Fibonacci levels on an hourly chart give some suggested buy zones:

https://bitcoinnewsmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/xmrbtcdaily2.png

Remember you could always lose any money you invest in any crypto so buy at your own risk. I put up charts to help people understand how to use risk management when trading. If you trade always use a sell stop and have a profit objective. Don't use an exchange to park your bitcoin. If you are not trading get your bitcoin off the exchange and into your local wallet.

How does this coin solve BTC scaling issue?  (blocksize>?)

Maybe this can help.  Lots of questions is answered on Monero Stack Exchange.
http://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/405/how-many-transactions-per-second-can-the-monero-network-handle/431#431




Or more simple:


Article from March 2016 why Monero is perfect hedge for BTC and is also mention how Monero dont have Bitcoins scaling issue.

http://weuse.cash/2016/03/05/

Thank you. This video has helped me as well

LTB E202 - Understanding Monero: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E6ftNOe0Io

Made a typo should be 500k XMR in one hour sorry.

https://www.scribd.com/document/322004737/Bitfury-Shared-Send-Untangling-in-Bitcoin-20160821

Ain't this just a pump still just like how any coins can do? The graph on bittrex seem to have come down now. I does seem like users are already dumping it. Dark market don't matter to you if you are not in the shady business so this coin must really be for them only. 

bitcoin was around $100 when its primary use was in Silkroad

pretty much. the dark market thing is a way better reason for a pump than the average alt though. it does make it almost unusable as an actual currency but I guess it'll settle down.

 Fibonacci has never and probably will never work on XMR market, use it and lose. You have been warned.

Have to agree here...

they must be smoking Bit-crack....smoking 1's and 0's

Thank you for the warning sir. Until the past few weeks I would tend to agree with you. I think the dynamic is changing; we will see. rpietila has also recently posted (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=753252.msg16028646#msg16028646) about using Fibonacci levels with Monero.

This is not true. You can currently compile the GUI code.

this quote will be likely mocked from here on out for a long time to come ^

I think those of us who watched the bull/bear p!ssing matches, the FUD storms, the hacks, ddos attacks, and scams that were the bitcoin scene in 2013 have a pretty good idea what to expect... If you are from the post-gox era, please try simulating 2013 using the wall observer thread.  That is basically the worst-case scenario coming up for the Monero community.  You have been warned. 

Huh? All I've been hearing is good news... what is this worst case scenario?

don't sweat it, dude. we're golden. it's a new paradigm and this time it's different.

I'm only golden if bitcoin is golden.... $10K/btc or bust

"And before you know it, BOOM....... and it doesn't come back."

I think he is talking less price-wise but more community-wise. E.g. more toxic behaviour from different people, Epic FUD, Misleading en masse etc.

It depends on the further development of the Monero and the support of the community.
The Monero has established itself. I have bought some.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170725.0

Brings back memories... how similar what's going on whit monero now was bitcoin at that time. Don't miss this train  ;)

Development Goals

https://static.getmonero.org/images/goals/development.jpg

Research Goals

https://static.getmonero.org/images/goals/research.jpg

I think price soon gonna be corrected as it is already pumped hard now a downtrend is likely. But i don't think price will go below 0.005btc again.

Please use the speculation thread. 

I used Fibonacci and Bollinger Bands. It seems helping much in XMR trading. In any trading with high volume and liquidity, Fibonacci combination to other technical indicatiors are very useful

I think price stabilize here for some time...as new people see XMR is stable coin more price will rise! - (many new face in crypto dont know XMR is a strong coin) (very stable overall) - this is new account for me but if anyone here since 2014 you know that XMR is real and GOOD - one of the Original great coins here in my opinion.

I always thought Boolberry was far superior to Monero but paid trolls and whale backers run these markets, not tech unfortunately.

You realize that guy in your avatar got hacked to death with machetes and axes?

He should have bought stealthy Monero.

Fibonacci levels used properly can work for Monero. Price declined to 50% level and tried to advance past 38.2% ran into a brick wall, heading back down to 50%. I think .0063 or 50% Fibonacci retracement has been shown to be important to Monero traders.

https://bitcoinnewsmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/xmrfibs.png

This is how I honor his memory  :)

I think your  starting point is too low.  We already bounced off the 50% fib

.0063 is also confirmed as a significant support using PnF charts. I consider that the Monero bull run started when traders became aware that the SIGAINT email service had started a public Monero node on Tor. You can also tell from inspecting the charts that accumulation began about two months before the public announcement. That could be a fluke or possibly those in the know were stocking up on cheap Monero. rpietila considers (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=753252.msg16028646#msg16028646) the retracement bottom to be between .0042 and .0052.

Yeah, have fun with that.



LOL, can you link it for me.


do you really think the whales that are fully capable;le and do manipulate this little pond of a market don't react to people using the tools your touting? DUH it plays into their hand. Why not just post right before your gonna buy, oh wait you are by following incorrect tools.

whatever you guys have been warned remember that when your ass is burned.

Alpha Bay wrote this on reddit

"We expect this to cause a spike in the price, so if you are an investor, now is the time to purchase Monero."


This is an obvious clue this thing is going to be manipulated either way, no doubt the two dark markets colluded together and bought up a bunch of Monero beforehand.

Hell for all we know they make their fortune off longing and shorting XMR and out of nowhere shutter both markets, why keep running the risk of running a huge underground narcotic operation when you can make a fortune off the crypto markets and retire easily?

I got my popcorn ready  :D

Definitely.  Why do you think it was ramping since May?  The rule is to buy the rumor, and sell the news.  But eventually the fundamentals will dominate.  If XMR denominates 10% of the AlphaBay transactions in December, the price should be at least $25 by New Year's Day.

How did you come to that conclusion that 10% implies $25?

Flufflyponies he say in video "Bitcoin is not fungible"  :o - Roger Ver is thinking good. Money must be fungible

Would like to know this as well

I consider it unfunny, but here you go:  http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-36804209

Correction:  "stones and a sharp weapon"

Thx, never heard of the guy and I have Avy's disabled. even if I enabled them though I would not have found that article. Weird man, wearing all gold in a third world country. Big surprise what happened. He'd be in alot of danger in most 1st world cities.

Frankly, it's a SWAG.  Give it no weight because I haven't done the math yet.  In fact, I haven't even built a proper parametric model to calibrate with data yet.  Not that it's hard.  It's not.  Go for it.  I am sure you can provide a more principled number, more worthy of contemplation. Of course it will be subject to endless debate regarding parameters, at least.  These forums are excellent sources of criticism and refinement, if you can disregard the noise, because people here care about the subject.

My hand-wavy reasoning is that AB does at least as much traffic as SR.  Incremental QToM value derives from that traffic.  SR supported roughly $100 BTC.  (BTC and XMR float are close enough to disregard at this level of granularity.) Thus, 10% of AB should support about $12 in incremental value.  The baseline to which that adds is the value before AB traffic (31 Aug), which I estimate at $8, for a total of $20.  The additional $5 comes from a seat-of-the-pants adjustment for increased speculative interest in the 2016 environment, as compared to the 2013 environment.  I think it is a very conservative estimate of the correct multiplier.

XMR China News: http://tech.qianlong.com/2016/0825/868402.shtml
http://www.insightcrime.org/news-analysis/us-shell-companies-aid-crime-groups-in-latin-america-and-beyond
http://www.insightcrime.org/news-briefs/report-highlights-importance-of-trade-based-money-laundering-2
http://www.insightcrime.org/news-briefs/sinaloa-cartel-laundered-money-in-colombia-using-textiles-report

mainstream media - cnn,cnbc have not mention Monero yet. If this happen, then what to price?

Felons moving to Monero Mountain?

Well, there goes the neighborhood.   >:(

It was nice while it lasted.

So what is next for Monero? Will more 3rd party developers take an interest in it? It needs more 3rd party apps and programs to make it easier for interested users. It needs a better light wallet than the one it has now and also a better web wallet. I know that the ones available or ok but if it intends to be like bitcoin it needs better software available to use.

Is it possible to make a Multibit wallet for XMR? How much would it cost for someone to commission the creation of it?

I think it will just follow the steps of the bitcoin. More infrastructre build will happen for the monero in the next few years for it to be widely used.

Since KeepKey bought Multibit the person to talk to is Darin Stanchfield on /r/keepkey

In the u.s. everyone is a felon.  Read "Three Felonies a Day".  It's a huge part of the urgent need for privacy.

Maybe I will get me some Monero to hold and see where this goes.

I am already planning on getting some monero to hold for long term. I think it has a good potential of appreciating in price.

Hurry up, it's getting harder to buy every day! ;D

oh man what a crazy day!

What price do you guys think will stabilize?

I think a market cap of 500 millions $ is the goal for the moment

the pump seems to have slowed down compared to this morning and the peek of 0.014BTC but I think it is just a beginning and it can go much higher and even go as high as 0.03BTC.

p.s. interesting thing about market cap that I always say is a shitty factor for comparison.
monero which is an old coin with a high price and big daily volume (which is even bigger than ETH is not yet #2 in marketcap) so you see this factor is never a good comparison but yet everybody even coinmarketcap.com uses it to rank the coins.

Lets go first with 100 millions $, then $10 a coin. After that we can go higher.

Bitcoin went from $1 to $31 in the first few months of Silkroad.
Feb2011.

Then it fell to $2 so...

ROGER VER PREDICTS 1 BILLION DOLLAR MARKET CAP FOR XMR IN 2016: https://forum.bitcoin.com/monero/monero-price-speculation-thread-t10274.html#p29049



FLUFFYPONY NEW INTERVIEW:
https://youtu.be/YVlQE-ObEXk   

Must watch brothers! Very important data here!

wish i had bought some more monero when the price was 0.002 btc. anyway still made profit.  :P

yep. there's no rhyme or reason to any of this. price is gonna do what it wants to do, or rather what certain groups of people want it to do. everything is speculation. if it was fundamentals only then bitcoin would be $20 or less still but speculation allows fundamentals to tag along. 

Monero is way over valued as of right now a dump will happen very soon

I disagree on valuation, but then I have maybe followed and used the coin longer and more than yourself.

As for a dump, sure... But, then it will go back up again.  8)

At the time we lacked a precedent.  Bitcoin established a precedent that crypto can appreciate to a 10bn usd mcap.  Thus, investors are not so naive any more, as they were then.

Please tell me should I purchase 3000 USD of XMR? - Is this good to store savings in?

I have only 3000 to buy some bitcoin....man on local bitcoin says he will give 5 bitcoin for 3000 USD. I have no coinbase. So when I get bitcoin - transfer into poloniex? - then buy xmr. I love xmr since i read about it....but have finally decided to move into crypto now. Long time bitcointalk reader here and no account!

(stealth reader) ;P

LOL

Well I hope so because I did

you ain't exactly gonna get objective answers from anyone here. store savings? hell no. make a bet? only you can decide.

What are you saying? That this is nothing but an empty pump? I disagree. The news of the darknet market accepting XMR is very big. Surely this is not just because of that news. XMR has the properties to be a good alternative to BTC and even a complement because it can be used as a second layer to make BTC more fungible and somehow anonymous too.

Both of those things already happened earlier today.
What's next?

Stable 20-30 by year end possible

Litcoin marketcap.

XMR went from $25M to close to roughly $130M market cap on a DNM announcement.
FCT has Department of Homeland Security and a Wall Street firm amongst their clients.

There's a mismatch with the demographic of crypto here and many investors put their idealism before money. The US government and Wall Street are easily in the top 5 of what most crypto people despise and for this reason it'll take some time to reach price discovery. The kind of revenue US government and Wall street can generate stomps any shady DNM.

I saw FCT value rose 5 times in last 2 months. So there is something on what you said.
Monero was just way undervalued. Reason was that there was lots other coins that tried to make it look bad and FUDed it. And there were Monero holders who did not want to pump or shill with sole reason to as long as possible buy cheap coins.

This on top of slower development compared to BTC clones and high emission in first 2 years. You got super cheap price in December 2015. Price just needed to settle on more normal ranges. No matter what would be the news.

We're closing in on that LTC market cap boys.
Let's see how much time it'll take for ETH post-1st Sept.

Not long at all, once FOMO sets in the stampede to the LTC exits begins.

There will be a slingshot effect as XMR passes LTC.

It already happened once, as XMR hurled past Dash's market cap and is now 50% above it.

Just several days left. market cap is really huge.

Shouldn't this be the Rise and FALL of Monero?


There is no continued rise, the dump will happen. At this moment we are all playing roulette on when it will all come down. The thing that is keeping the price up is the hype around DNM adoption.

Come Sept 1, when DNM Oasis and AlphaBay both starting using XMR... if for some reason we low volume or lower than expected usage I can see the price come tumbling down. But from now to Sept 1st everyone is riding the hype train and it is much harder to manipulate the price down. 

Of course long term I'm bullish, and I think 0.02 will happen... but I'm a little worried about the first week of Sept. Too much hype always leads to some form of disappointment




0.02 sounds like a no brainer to me, especially relative to the market caps of LTC and ETH. Then $500M market cap


M i rite guys?

XMR is already in USE on the darknet...the second phase of implementation begins on the 1st of SEPT.

XMR SEPTEMBER SCHEDULE:

1. HARDFORK UPDATE!
2. CODE FREEZE + RINGCT UPDATE
3. MORE DARKNET MARKETS ADDING XMR!
4. MORE EXCHANGES ADDING XMR!
5. MULTI SIG COMING TO XMR *OCTOBER ISH

Development Goals

https://static.getmonero.org/images/goals/development.jpg

Research Goals

https://static.getmonero.org/images/goals/research.jpg

Next thing to happen is actual use in dark markets - that starts Sept 1. https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/4z0zih/official_alphabay_dnm_to_accept_xmr_from/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/4z0zih/official_alphabay_dnm_to_accept_xmr_from/)

After that, Ring CT gets introduced in the next version of Monero so maybe 6 months?

After that, an easy to use GUI.

Price will continue to increase as knowledge becomes more widespread.

Honestly at this point, it really kind of depends if you truly believe in Monero... because I mean as of right now, it's around the $8-9 range.  I wouldn't dare to play with putting a large portion of money in if you were planning on day trading, because whales are in abundance in this market now.  Price swings in either direction will make you emotional (either exuberant or pissed) and you will get out real quick if you are thinking in those terms.  It's either going to go one way or another, it will be platinum to Bitcoins Gold or it will be a bust. Just remember to invest with what you can afford to lose, and if it were me, I would just keep it in cold storage for 3-5 years and see what happens then.

Monero is about to start crashing very hard people. Lots and lots of people will loose fortunes and for a lucky few some will make them.
I'm out for now but watching from the sidelines.

Think about this fictional scenario. Someone bought with all his money at $10 because he really believes in a cryptocoin. Then the price goes down to $1 but still is holding because he is a true believer. It stays there for 5 years and there is no sign that it will go up and now he is in debt. Would you believe that he is still a true believer? I speculate that that person is now trolling bitcointalk for a living. :D

I addressed this same comment in another thread.  In a competitive environment, FCT will race to the bottom of near zero profit margins.  In contrast, Monero has a natural monopoly as the reference currency of a growing economy.  I don't think the U.S. government is so easily corrupted as to prefer the interests of factom holders to those of the tax-payers.  Certainly fintech startups will reach for anything in their desperation.  It's not like "Wall street" is referring to a bank consortium or something.  In fact the FX majors have their own settlement chain in development.  Players small enough to resort to factom are too small to have a significant value-add, unless they come up with some proprietary innovation.  I am not seeing it.

Monero derives its utility from fungibility and scarcity.  Factom derives its utility from uniqueness.  The two are radically different, and serve radically different markets.  Comparing them on mcap is a category error.

Personally I think support for Monero in bitwa.la is huge news, and will have a substantial long-term impact of the growth of the above-ground economy, as well as on the utility of the currency to all users.

dump XMR, buy SLING

Many bought Monero in mid 2014 at $3. Then Monero went even to $0.25. And they were 2 years in reds.  I am sure some sold. But some hold and stay in since they knew what they are holding. It does not matter how much Monero is worth. You hold 1 Monero.

Forget about SLING you should buy XMR instead.

Axxo? As in the Axxo from back in the good ol torrent days? - you are a legend my friend. - Respect.

Good time to buy I think.

Looking for Litecoin market cap.  Can we do it?  Yes, we can.

At the top of the pump..... good time to buy... LMAO!!  :D

Yea dont buy sling. XMR is way better then sling anyday of the week.

No its time to sell but if your selling to buy sling your crazy.

Exactly. This is just a normal pump and dump that people have rode the bandwagon too late

I dont think right now is the best time to invest in monero I'm gunna let it dip down a bit before I buy in.  No transactions are actually being done with this currency just yet.  Maybe within a couple of weeks i can see the price spiking again depending of the vendors on these Darknet sites actaully start using the coin

I would agree, since I invested in this coin over 2 years ago. This price could simply vanish overnight right now. It has made many people very rich in just a week - I can say that for a fact, but it has a long haul ahead already as well.

It's September 1st now and it's going sideways between 0.015 - 0.014
This was such a huge pump that people can easily make money even if price goes down to 0.013, buying volume spiked around this price on the way up.
Unless one is truly convinced about long term value this is not the time to buy.

So... Any news on this? Are volumes holding up, are people actually using this thing?

Out of all listings on Alphabay, which add up to 46878 at the time of this post, 2561 accept Monero already. This is roughly 5.5%.
Vendors are conducting 'experiments' by accepting Monero only on few of their listings, to see if there is any interest. We should see rapid adoption when (and if) people start using XMR to buy stuff.

Monero's anonymity is not 100% proven nor time-tested yet and Monero is harder to liquidate for cash.  

I suspect most DNM vendors will continue to use Bitcoin, because Bitcoin has the network effect and illegal Bitcoins can be laundered over-the-counter cash through sites like localbitcoins.

http://www.coindesk.com/localbitcoins-users-criminal-charges-florida/

Cases like the above are probably the exception in terms of launderers being caught.  Whereas someone trying to unload Monero on the exchanges will probably get caught due to all the trails and investigations of coins on those exchanges.  No one in the world has heard of Monero, so you can't do cash launder deals like Bitcoin.  All these criminal vendors on the darknet have overhead and other expenses and thus non-liquid Monero does not help them to run their businesses.

As for someone like Roger Ver shilling for Monero - it's NOT the first alternate he has shilled for, he used to shill a lot for Ripple and also Applebytes, I think, and other alternates.

Are you a buyer or a seller?

I think ETC reach 1 BN before XMR.

Its a little much now. Time for monereo to be worth a few dollars again so I can load up. :)

Good news from Livecoin (https://www.livecoin.net)

Buy now or cry later.

Nice pump , even got some ETH hashrate on monero

So cheers , thx!

It is funny because I am thinking which Monero holders will now buy drugs on Alphabay. :D The best move for the Monero team right now is to set up more infrastructure to buy XMR easier for those people who are interested. It would be better for more shapeshift type of service where the buyer can be anonymous. So maybe a service like localbitcoins for the darknet is a good idea.

As a longtime XMR holder, I can tell you this was never about drugs or DNM's, it was about true digital cash/fungibility without repercussions.

Thanks.

BTW. I am trying,see my sig!?  

I noticed that the localmonero.com domain was available until less than 2 weeks ago, so maybe something will come of it?

I agree, most that have been here years were for loftier goals.

In the meantime, can't video game tokens/assets be sold on ebay?  The rules allow for this, don't they?

Looks like this is a clear buy for the rest of this year. Holy shit. What happens today I smoked too much last night and slept all day.  THIS RISE IS CRAZY!~ IT KEEPS RISING. Mind is exploded when I woke up guys. This could be great! ...maybe $20 USD is possible this year? - too bad here russia we have no good access to large BTC it seems. My banks are no good

Did you wake up 2 days later... The price was way highee yesterday lol

I was just thinking this, time warp maybe? ???

The Monero price has dropped some what in the last two days. That could be a time for the consolidation of price.

Thank you for jesus give Russia more chance to make XMR cheap! - we also create donation for all here!

Are you still living two days ago? What is the XMR price right now where you live? lol.

He is anticipating the future price.

XMR will see 0.035 in 2016 at the least.

5,000,000 - 10,000,000 SATOSHI  2016

This is my official prediction for the year.

I bet is Russian vodka. Easily happen to miss a day.

I like it, so in that way it will end up more valuable than ETH in terms of price by the end of the year? I think I need to just ride with, in fact monero has been silent for a long time and I think it will continue to pump until it reaches to the moon. I even wanna see bigger than your speculation, even 0.05 is possible.

What is the sense on here for what happens to Monero price when Z-cash launches? How much of this boom is a pump to get into Z-cash, and how much is real and fundamentally driven?

If Z-cash is used, then it has a fundamental value. Z-cash has some identity issues to deal with via the corporate seal of approval (is it the ripple of anonymous coins?) but like ripple, it probably will have some initial success, and if it can prove that it offers legitimate improvements for privacy it will get real-use--the issue of coin supply will always overhang it (I imagine), but it doesn't need to be a value store for most users.

It is almost logically impossible to prove the destruction of the secret seed.  And if it is destroyed, then it is infeasible to verify its entropy.  It's a magic number, and as such can be chosen to create vulnerability.

For me I am glad to see Roger Ver here (MemoryDealers). He is example of someone who had to learn a new language when he moved to Japan and worked hard to teach people about something new (Bitcoin). It would be good to get insight on what he thinks Esperanto could do for business ties and relationships in general. -good posting OP!  We in Russia have good Esperanto community ! All here are welcome to stay with us.


-XMRlove

Is there any chance that xmr can take the number one spot.

The way they propose to do it, I fully agree with you.  However, I think the issue is not entirely hopeless.  There are a few conditions, and I don't know if they can be satisfied, but if:

1) the pool of key generators should be large - say at least a 1000 members, in such a way *that everybody who wants, can participate*.

2) the entropy of the total key will be at least the entropy of each individual contributing key

3) each participant can see many other participants (maybe not all, but many of them), and each participant can check that his contribution is part of the final result

then I think the trusted setup can work.

For instance, suppose that one uses a known communication channel - say bitcointalk.org - where people can sign up and POST their contribution (the public key contribution, not their to be destroyed private key of course).  YOU CAN TOO.

When, after sufficient time, the number of needed participants is reached (can this be variable or is this fixed from the start ?), the final keys are publicly calculated from the posted ones.  You can do that too, including your own key of course.  We should all agree upon the resulting keys, and we can all verify that all key shards have been included, including our own.

Now in as much as we know of ourselves that we destroyed (or at least kept secret :-) ) our secret key, we know that nobody has the golden key.  And in as much as we DO collude with all the others to make a golden key, then we also know that at least a thousand people, including ourselves, are aware of this and we can make this public at any moment (and prove it: by publishing the golden key, we definitely kill the trusted setup ; we would be crazy not to obtain the golden key in return for our own shard of secret key).

It will be difficult to keep such a secret with 1000 people, and at least EACH of these 1000 people know, and know that the 999 others know.

The point is: *if* anybody has the OPPORTUNITY to be part of the trusted setup, and if the number of people involved is huge, then I think one can trust the trusted setup.  But 18 "celebrities", no thank you.

Yes.  But if it does, it will probably take 5-8 years to do so, and might take a lot longer.

Monero have many features but as per consideration Monero is untraceable cryptocurrency.

Currently price of monero is increasing just bcz of higher demand.

Safe, secure and anonymous transactions are important factors of monero which gives them higher value in market.

@Digitalbitcoin. Also do point out that it is going up also because of the people speculating on XMR. I do not believe there is a high enough "demand" at this point because it is still newly accepted in the darknet. Maybe in the future it will be but not today.

But if you base the volume of Monero in one of the trading site which Poloniex, it is the biggest under the altcoins and it has an abrupt increase, I think this year will be the year for Monero and it has overtaken the Etherium already in terms of price. Me, I will just ride with it and continue doing some day trading with monero.

Of course because that is where a large % of the trading volume is coming from. If you have a source of the data of the volume of XMR's buying and selling by the vendors and users from the darknet market then we can compare them with the current volume in the exchanges. How many of those XMR buyers now are buying to use it in the darknet market for illegal drugs and other illegal items? $1 million, $2 million worth or more? That should be enough to ping the FBI to let them start to investigate.

Also what is the safer way to buy XMR to use in the darknet? Shapeshift? What is the current volume of XMR trades there?

I can see and feel that monero is slowly climbing up, i just realized that there are so many people that is investing in monero, and they said monero is a potential alt coin, even though they dont dare to compare it with bitcoin yet, but they said its a good investment, from what i see monero has develop quite well

Bitcoin value will increase as it exits the Dark Net Marketplaces.  (Remember what happened after the Silk Road bust?  New ATH)
Monero value will increase as it enters the DNMs.

Right place and right time for both.

Agreed.

With being on the cusp of financial calamity alternative assets/currencies will likely revalue to the upside in the impending global economic contraction (i.e. recession and possibly beginning of a depression).

I suspect in the next 2-4 months the financial world will have some huge rumblings.

This is to me in Russia verygood buying opportunity under 2 MILL SATOSHi...for me I am lucky I thought would never get to this price again. Bank service here is very slow each day to get my money! into XMR!

Never thought Roger Ver would comment on something I wrote. Thanks!

I got a ban the day I made this thread...no idea why. They had a problem with me "Necro Bumping" Satoshis old posts. That is a direct quote and I will not name mods names..I feel like some people are really upset about this rise. I have been attacked in my PM box. Oh well...I am officially a XMR holder for life. With the fundamentals surrounding this coin and the great minds now looking at it (Ver, and others) shows me that it does have a chance like I believed. If you believe in something dont let anyone else tell you otherwise folks. Think about the true power of having private money. This has never before been possible in human history. I am more than thankful to be apart of this journey with yall.

We have not yet had any "Big press" regarding XMR and its innovations. I believe in a short time we may see more media outlets paying attention to this coin. Time will tell. Until then, I am investing more and holding this coin as a untouchable private store of wealth.

XMR is a good coin with great devs, thats all you need to know, as long as it doesnt get fucked with like ETH did it shoudl steadily climb i think

Are you sure? Only in 2-4 months? That is very close to happening and on time for christmas too. For you, what will be the catalyst of the new economic or financial collapse?

If there really is one that is going to happen I speculate that the governments around the world will again print $trillions worth of fiat to stimulate the falling economy. They will not allow a real collapse to happen just like in 2008.

Yes 2-4 months it will begin.

The catalyst is poor-broken-monetary-policy since 8 year ago and longer.

The bolded portion they will do for sure. Will it work? It might do a little but that is just like trying to stimulate a junkie crack addict, eventually the person is dead (person = the economy). Monetary heorine = cheap money printing.

The whole system is flawed. One giant broken experiment that will live on in the history books as one of the worst ever (assuming there are history books in the future).

LOL, don't fool yourself. Great minds have had more than enough time to scope out Monero.

Even the New Zealand Inland Revenue know about it  ???

http://imgur.com/a/amgkr

Happy to hear that Genesis Mining is rolling out XMR mining contracts. I just got an email from them.  It just proved the acceptance that Monero is getting. Obviously the price hike is due to the demand and we can't rule out a correction coming in. MAybe, it may keep gaining. But XMR seems like  a good candidate to diversify your crypto portfolio into.

Is there a major difference between DASH and MONERO?

It is not because they ask the question that they can know the answer.  Of course you are supposed to declare everything a state can potentially steal, that's why they exist.  There's no way for them to know that you have a private key.  You don't even have to keep it on a computer.  You just have the seed of the wallet somewhere.  Knowing some words is hard to find out.

What is funny, though, is that if they have to give two examples of crypto currencies, bitcoin and monero come to their mind !
That's quite bullish for monero !

The anonymity created by the Monero is in the protocol, it does not require the mast nodes like the Dash does.

There is 1 big resemblance between the way DASH and the way MONERO provide anonymity.  The anonymity in both cases comes from the fact that a genuine transaction to an output A could potentially come from different inputs B, C or D.  This {B, C or D} is what is called the anonymity set (I take 3 elements as an example, it is not 3).  This is different in bitcoin, where an output A comes from an input B.  If you know A, then you know that B paid A.  In monero or in DASH, if you know A, you know that ONE of B, C OR D paid A but you don't know which one.

There are 3 main differences:

1) the anonymity in MONERO is mandatory and automatic, while the anonymity in DASH is an active option you have to take.

2) the anonymity set in DASH are *really spend transactions*, while the anonymity set in Monero consists of *potential* transactions (of which only one is truly happening).

3) the anonymity set in monero is generated by the transmitters' wallet on his own, while th anonymity set in DASH is generated by a trusted party (a masternode) who knows the participants.

I hear Barclays took a look at XMR a while back... is this true? - sources?

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/monero-opens-were-about-private-you-can-get-1580481

Says somewhere in this article...

I've never shilled for Monero or Ripple, and never even heard of Applebytes until your post.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowball_effect

"The common analogy is with the rolling of a small ball of snow down a snow-covered hillside. As it rolls the ball will pick up more snow, gaining more mass and surface area, and picking up even more snow and momentum as it rolls along."

I don't see any problems with XMR taking the same trip ETH did. Posting a prediction that in less than two months from today the market cap of Monero will be more than 1BN.

http://bfy.tw/7cZH


You are either missing the point or have taken his post out of context.


Fluffy stated they contacted him.


Welcome to the thread. :) I guess the ALT section isn't the dirty red headed step child anymore. :D

Hi. I'm new with Monero and would to setup my first wallet for it. Kindly provide me the link where to create my first wallet for Monero. Thanks in advance.

There are a few different ways depending on your skill level. I'd start here, go to the bottom of the page and follow the instructions.

https://getmonero.org/home

PS - Welcome! :)

For privacy you are best off running your own Monero node see https://getmonero.org/getting-started/running

Until Monero comes out with their own GUI if you do not like using the command line LightWallet2 is your best option: https://github.com/jwinterm/LightWallet2

Note you will have to change settings on LightWallet2 to use your local bitmonerod instance set it as http://localhost:18081

All the files for running your Monero node and Lightwallet2 should be located in one folder on your desktop. Start bitmonerod by clicking on it and after the blockchain is updated click on Lightwallet to start the GUI. This should get you up and running.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/the-fbi-wants-zero-privacy-security-bitcoin-community-should-protect-its-freedoms

Peter Todd saying good things...

This is most def classic accumulation phase....price is showing great strength at these levels. excellent.

Coinbase transactions coming with HARDFORK ON 21ST of this month = added layer of privacy coming to XMR

RING CT is in testnet right now... = coming in march 2017(maybe earlier)(testing has started now) = even more privacy for XMR

= Bullish signs

That sounds like sound advice to me.

On the other hand, DOGE had a LOT of true believers too, and today you can buy a DOGE for 37 satoshi.

~LOL~

This.

But remember all these projects are open source and therefore there is very little barrier to entry for competitors.

Look at the XMR all time chart on Polo. Its insane. You'd expect to see a serious dump after this kind of runup. We haven't. The price is behaving very well considering. This an auspicious sign.

Get it while it is cheap and hodl. ~LOL~

disclaimer: I don't give investment or financial advice. My comments are just conjecture mixed with a little hopium and more than a little experience.

It's not "suspicious" at all. Darknetmarkets are using the currency. There will be a dump, but nothin epic before yet another pump - Plus, the hardfork is approaching so we will all need new binaries soon, and rumor has it there may be gui beta binaries in there! ;D

To me it looks like someone try to get cheap coin. They get REKT.   - price will be over 2 MILL satoshi soon and they will must buy in higher!

I remember monero at around $1 or some times $2 near 6 months ago but wasn't it the same monero then?
What has happened since to change the price this much as we see it today?

Basicly nothing changed. Just steady progress. All what is in Monero today was predicted a year ago.

Problem is there are so many coins that people just cant see which real flowers are.

Cyber Security Experts Expect a Rise in Monero Ransomware


Cyber criminals and hackers will soon ditch Bitcoin for Monero. Cyber security experts have anticipated the shift to happen in the near future. They believe that the ransomware creators and distributors will start demanding ransom in Monero instead of Bitcoin in the coming days. The shift will be influenced by the additional privacy and security offered by Monero. Bitcoin transactions are known to be pseudonymous at best. In spite of taking extra precautions, like using coin tumbling...


http://www.newsbtc.com/2016/09/10/experts-expect-rise-in-monero-ransomware/

That's right, I have been hearing monero long before but it does not catch my attention, only now that the price are soaring which gives me interest to research on the coins and hope to keep more for the future, and by the way i like the price today so I think I will start buying now.

I am on the same time frame as you, I was early about 2 years :/

Good to see moneros getting some deserved attention, the devs are good people, intergrity, bitcoin is just not the same like the days satoshi was around...

Yes. What I like more about Monero is that it is becoming a political statement in these times of government spying and snooping on its citizens. I am encouraging the use of Monero among my cryptocoin friends and encourage them to hold the coin also.

I have a question about the darknet markets. Is there any legal items for sale there? Are there merchants that accept XMR but sell harmless but embarrassing items to buy like dildos or sex dolls?

1.2 MILL - 1.5 MILL SATOSHI seems reasonable. I expect us to correct and hover around that area for some time. Wont go any lower than that. We are still up over 1 MILL SAT from earlier ...remember this. When RING CT is fully implemented in the next 6 months the price should reflect that and power through previous ATH. This is way more than any of us could have asked for. BE THANKFUL and dont panic. XMR is showing great signs. However the next great milestone will be RING CT implementation. Depending on how TESTNET goes I will be investing more in January-February 2017. I expect the price to jump again closer to that time frame. For now XMR will show the world how strong it is. Even if we do go to 1.2 - 1.5 MILL that is still price strength IMO. Look at how far we have come since I made this thread.

You are already a winner if you are here now. Patience is key. Price will come in time. Opportunity is everywhere in the crypto space, you just have to learn how to find it.

for me I will continue to buy. This is stable coin price

For now... It was slightly cheaper yesterday, though if you are still accumulating you may want to wait and see where it goes next.

There is limited funds in the altcoin section. If other altcoin price rises, the Monero price could drop further.

Such tech. Havent been able to produce a graphical interface though. Rofl.

This bubble is deflating rapidly and the big dump is around the corner.

What, why aren't you coding one up then? I noticed from your post history you seem to have a lot of negativity and anger at [insert coin name here] in general. Good luck with your future. ::)

This is the sort of people deeply involved in XMR

No, not at all, it's just one user... Get a f*ckin clue LOL.. and sorry you are butthurt enough to post about it I guess?

He started the thread we are now talking in so he is more then just one user he is a highly influential XMR supporter on a smear campaign against a coin that actually has a GUI and he expects us to worry about them building a market rofl

You shadowcash kids jealous?
Come and play with the real king ANON coin.

I am long on XMR for life.

you must be joking?

What i don´t get... why you are starting to hype SDC in the same moment XMR has it meteoric rise... bandwagoning much? I did not hear a bleep like forever and suddenly all the sdc supporters are back like the years before.

https://i.imgur.com/E3Vho9b.png

^ Thats why

Shadow seems to have plenty of advantage but it lacks proper marketing strategy and become successful like monero.

You really know that XMR has been successful when you see trolls like this peddling 100% shitcoins... ;D  

you know your coin is more successful when it's biggest FUDDER is secretly buying.

 ::) yeah whatever man hahah

0.01554495   2480.81757534   38.56418517   43.42815387  

XMR beast awaking ;)

https://poloniex.com/exchange#btc_xmr

Take a look at Syscoin...a decentralized market already exists kid...theirs is not even used ...yours for sure wont be. - SDC "decentralized market" that wont be used. Broken PoS coin. - dont even get me started on why PoS is shit.

Now if youd excuse me while I light my Spliff, https://youtu.be/OdhEAl_sI1A

- Cheers XMR holders 

Great to see! so happy for XMR intact it really excites me! 3 centralised markets that could exit scam or be taken down by authorities at any minute start accepting XMR as payment and it explodes.
It gives me real confidence that the Umbra platforms decentralised market will be a real success in the future, our market will after all be decentralised so nobody will be taking it down ever! and if you look at the design of our GUI here>https://decentralize.today/privacy-within-the-umbra-83ecdba2f51#.53nxno8jt you will have to agree The Umbra Platform Shadowcash is used on will be the Ebay of Decentralised markets.
Very exciting times we live in.

https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1200/1*KttFKS_tel6YuhGReMv9kw.png

https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1200/1*6YpBLI1ba0Xjz2qZ6F-1pg.png

^ for those who do not trust my link

Unfortunately Reddit be banned at my country, do you can give me others site? For read the informations, it will help me and another users who can't access Reddit. Thank you very much.

The price seems to be in consolidation mode. I expect the price to be much higher by years end. Thats just my guess though.

It looks like we have hit my target bottom. This seems to be a good floor and the price has been going sideways for some time....Based on the past few days I would be surprised if it fell to 1.2 MILL. I think it should stay in this zone for the next while. The longer we stay here the higher chance we have of going up. In my opinion this is a consolidation zone. I am expecting the price to start rising as we get closer to a full GUI as well as Ring CT implementation.

If you look at the charts you will see we hit an ATH of around 2.6 MILL SATOSHI. I think we could easily see 3.5 MILL SAT by the time Ring CT is implemented if not higher...not to mention once the GUI is released I expect a rise in price.


There is a great price discussion going on here for anyone else looking for more information: https://forum.bitcoin.com/monero/monero-price-speculation-thread-t10274-30.html

After doing a lot of research i've come to the conclusion that its not possible. Anon coins cant go major mainstream because the fiat gateways wont let that happen.

Better to just play the waves and profit then hold forever with hopes.
 

If anon coins depend on fiat gateways, then by definition they are not mainstream, because then fiat is mainstream.  That said, anon coins don't have to go "mainstream", but just big enough to be useful as a currency.

However, if anything, probably a right approach would be: fiat -> bitcoin.  Once you are in the crypto sphere, even with a transparent ledger, many more things are possible, such as distributed exchanges.  True distributed anonymous exchanges for fiat are not possible, because or you have to have physical contact with cash, or you have to have some bank account.  In both cases, it cannot be "distributed - anonymous".  But one could think of distributed smart contracts on networks like Tor where there is no anonymity rupture exchanging coins of different nature.  One could even do it on top of ethereum although ethereum is much too transparent as such ; I'm more thinking of something like Hawk. (the "monero" version, or better, the zcash version of ethereum).  So after fiat -> bitcoin, we can have bitcoin --(hawk)--> monero.

But it won't be bitcoin, nor monero of course.  It will be something newer, invented the next century.

So once, if ever, bitcoin-like transparent coins are "mainstream", one can easily go the anon side.

Waves is starting to look good now, maybe people are beginning to focus their attention on one of the best funded currency online. I hope to see it boom this year because it has been so long I have been holding my coins. On the other hand, I do not think XMR is going to go back on its original profit, I think the dark market have trusted it already and will continue to seek for the demand.

Wolfram Warptangent UPDATE FOR XMR: https://github.com/monero-project/monero/releases/tag/v0.10.0


Rest in peace Warptangent. Thank you for this hard work.

This is the next major release of Monero. It adds an initial release of RingCT, which is already live on testnet. The RingCT whitepaper can be found at the link above. Note that the v4 hard fork has been moved to the beginning of January, 2017, although the v5 hard fork remains set at September, 2017. This is to enable early availability of RingCT transactions on the Monero network, although they will not be enforced as the only possible transaction type until the v5 hard fork.

One of the largest pieces of work were the BlockchainDB performance improvements. This was largely done by warptangent, an early Monero contributor who passed away in March, 2016. His work was completed by Howard "hyc" Chu, and we have named this release after him. We are deeply grateful for all the effort he put in to making Monero what it is today.

Some highlights of this release are:

major performance improvements, especially on spinning disks
major space saving gains for the blockchain, despite the performance improvements
renamed binaries to follow a more logical, consistent convention
RingCT...obviously:)
added libunwind support for better crash reporting
added a key image export and import function for full watch-only wallet functionality
added support for ARMv8 processors
added a do_not_relay flag for transactions sent to the daemon
added a sweep_all command and RPC call for the wallet
significant fixes and improvements to threading
add a get_transfers RPC call
added transfer tracking to the wallet (lost forever if the wallet cache is deleted)
added a filter_by_height option to get_transfers
added a --max-concurrency flag for the wallet
major improvements to ARM performance, especially on newer 64-bit chips
huge overhaul of cmake and the readme
added a wallet API for the GUI
added a fee multiplier and reduced fees
made monero-wallet-cli more robust when handling corrupt caches
prompt twice for a wallet password to avoid password issues
improved daemon 'status' details, including time to the next fork
more bug fixes than you can shake a stick at
temporary patch (via a predefined user-agent) for the CSRF attack against monero-wallet-cli's RPC API, as disclosed by Henry Hoggard

Monero just keeps ascending higher and higher above the shitcoins like SDC and DASH.

Did XMR have a bug? I thought only shadow had a bug  :-\
https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FXk2n7J3.png&t=568&c=Wmb0q8KiSZOvJg

I can't even keep my shitcoins straight.

Dash has its distinctive instamine and masternode HYIP (aka Ponzi), but I keep conflating Vtrash and ShadowTrash.   :-\

IIRC, Vtrash stole code from Bitcoin but denied it, while ShadowTrash had their amateur crypto pwned by Shen but denied it until he published code which deanonymized their entire blockchain.

Seems to me we are still in consolidation mode..I would set buys at 1.5 - 1.2 MILL SAT at the worst...

holding strong through these dumps here. I am long term xmr holder.

XMR IS HACK https://labs.mwrinfosecurity.com/advisories/csrf-vulnerability-allows-for-remote-compromise-of-monero-wallets/

Fortunately, no one has reported any loss of funds, and it would require some special effort for most people to actually expose themselves to such exploitation.

https://getmonero.org/2016/09/21/a-statement-on-the-mwr-labs-disclosure.html

sigh, the shit that gets thrown around here these days...

This is actually also what crossed my mind when I read about the vulnerability: this can only happen when you have opened your wallet on the same computer you're at the same moment looking at, say, some porn.  That said, the activation of the RPC function should not be default while I think it is atm.

Is the current price of Xmr @ around .017 btc still viable to buy? Im trading on Poloniex and looking for some altcoins to invest

Simply not true - please check your facts:

"More importantly, since monero-wallet-cli does not enable RPC mode by default, there is nothing that is vulnerable in it unless the user actively enables a setting that allows for someone to remotely control the wallet."

Quoted from A STATEMENT ON THE MWR LABS DISCLOSURE: https://getmonero.org/2016/09/21/a-statement-on-the-mwr-labs-disclosure.html

trading <--> investing

you'll first have to decide what exactly you want to do... or do you wanne do both...

I'd say for investing (long term), XMR is one of the best (if not the best) alts out there... The fundamentals are just outstanding... but don't take my word for this, go out and research for yourself!!!!

For trading, which means short term profit, I just don't know so I can't give you any advice... I think trading crypto's is very hard, I tried it with bitcoin in 2013 and only lost money until I decided to just hold... Never traded crypto's since, but I'm sure there are some old timers here who can give you some solid advice for trading (probably aminorex, Truecryptonaire, ... )

best regards

Now I am kicking myself again because I missed BTC and now this one

You montards are funny

That's what everyone said when BTC went to 32.

Ok here is a question to the Monero development team. I am not a coder nor a technical person. What is the RPC mode there for and what can I use it for as an ordinary user?

I ask because a possibility of someone controlling your wallet remotely should not be taken lightly.

I'm not (at all!) in the monero development team.  And apparently (and happily) I was wrong on the RPC function to be enabled by default, which makes this vulnerability much, much less severe.

RPC is actually allowing instructions over the network, a bit like if you were "in the application interface".  Now, the "network" can be limited to the "local machine".  This is strange at first sight, but it means that certain applications on the local machine can do "network calls" to the other application that has RPC.  The local network has IP address 127.0.0.0.  It is not accessible from outside.  So you would think that RPC calls ON THE LOCAL MACHINE to itself, are no problem.

The vulnerability is that a browser executing code in a web page, IS on the local machine, and CAN do local network calls.  So the web page can contain network call instructions to the local machine and hence, push instructions to every RPC application that listens to them.

Usually, you can protect network access with a password, but sometimes people don't do this on the local machine, as they - erroneously - consider that the local machine is safe.  The point with web browsers is that they execute code from a foreign web page on the local machine, and that's the loophole that is exploited here.

So you are in danger if:
1) you have activated the RPC function in your wallet without password
2) you have opened your wallet
3) you use a web browser on the same machine while having opened your wallet visiting a page that contains these instructions

seriously ~LOL~

The Monero is less than 50% of the peak value. Is there any possibiity that it will reach all time high soon?

Probably not, but you should ask this in the speculation thread for better answers.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=753252.msg16627743#msg16627743

The all time Monero chart has ZERO support zones. It will slowly decline back to 1-1.50 USD over the next months. What's worse is now in order to create a double top on the long term it has to hit its ATH which we all know was a pump and dump dark net scam. Monero market is game over because slow and steady is only way to make sustainable price. 8)

Looks like the Subject of this Topic needs an Update   ;)

THE RISE AND FALL OF MONERO

http://www.outforjustice.com/personal_injury_lawyer_fort_lauderdale/images/slip_and_fall_accidents_fort_lauderdale/man_trip_and_fall_accident_on_residential_home_stairs_photo.jpg

 8)

First off... how dare you even talk... you could have made lots of money with one of your 0-Day vulnerabilities if you shorted at the top, you still did not proof that so gtfo liar. Secondly there is no slow and steady in anything that has a market made of 90% speculators, not ONE SINGLE Cryptocurrency.

sssst, don't make johnnyboy angry, he's gonna use one of his 12 found 0-day-vulnerabilities any moment now... Really, any moment now!

djeezes, these people get more pathetic by the day, really John, you gonna start with amateur-hour-TA now? The horde of trolls and whining fudsters xmr is attracting nowadays...

It's up a bit less than 1000% since january... If you wanna call that 'a fall', be my guest...

Sorry, had to laugh at the picture  ;D

Must be john-connor, that´s how he refactored BTC Code and claimed he wrote it from scratch

ROTFL RITE!!! He must be Satoshi. :)

Monero is the best anonymous crypto currency in the market right now and the dev team is expecting more bust in the future by people doing illegal purchase with bitcoin and it will boost monero even further  ;)

That is so funny but I do not buy it, Monero might be down right now but it will not last forever, and upon seeing on the price it is just back to its normal price months ago, so since we have reach to 0.02 level for sure we will be back here in a short period of time.

Monero price tend to rise, it didn't take much longer to reach the highest price as of september ago. Only in 24 hours has gone up more than 12%, it's time to go on purchase this coin and I sure the price will continue go up again.

ROFL. All cryptos with decentralised local nodes (90% out there), including Monero, can utilise RPC for control. It isn't enabled by default  - you need to configure conf file with RPC settings. If it is set up properly, RPC is no less secure than operating via a gui or console cli. It's down to basic network security.

All these Monero threads are like Groundhog day!

I would actually wait a day or two before buying, personally.
Being listed on Bittrex is no reason for Monero to go up 10% in my opinion.
Price has a good chance of dropping at least a few percent by the weekend.

However, I'm almost 100% sure Monero is a good long-term investment.
If any coin can be Bitcoin 2.0, its probably Monero.

Monero cant be Bitcoin 2.0, that are other coins that fight for that title.

Monero is just more Bitcoin 1.0 as Bitcoin itself.

Monero is not replacing bitcoin, sorry

I did not said that. I just said, that i understand as Bitcoin 2.0 different coins as it is Monero.   Secret of Monero success is that Monero is more Bitcoin 1.0 then Bitcoin itself.   No word of replacing anything.

Monero is Bitcoin 2.0 as much as pepper is salt 2.0.

IOW, Monero is complementary to Bitcoin, not descended from it.

But the problem about Monero is that it is a botnet coin, there will be constant selling from the botnet operators.

botnets secure network as any other miners. There is daily supply of coins. It is not bigger or smaller with different people mining Monero. But is same. So there is no problem in this.  As it is planed most hashpower should be made by people using monero wallets with so called smart mining. But that will not be available that soon.

You need tot take a course in critical thinking, your premise is stupid on many levels.

Bitcoin is doing fine, despite having been mined by everything from rouge Steam updates to Smart Toasters.

The nice thing about the Work in Proof-of-Work is that it's fungible.

So it doesn't matter whether the Work is performed by Evil Botnets or Wiley Chinee or Aunt Millie's GPU rig.

Even with the BTC rise there's still accumulation going on with XMR so that should be a big sign to everyone.

The Monero price has risen quite a lot recently.

Yup, I've been trying to lead  a horse to water for years now, but you can't drown him in it. ;D Hope you have followed this advice. :)

I don't even mention XMR in all the "best investment threads", they are there to jump on get quick schemes and always get burned. trying to talk sense into them is a waste of time and effort which I have never been thanked for let alone rewarded for. But those threads are great to find shill accounts that are pushing shitcoins and adding those accounts to you ignore list will help protect you from future scams they are involved in, you'll be surprised how many scammers you can peg this way. :)

...and continued rise. Up about 33% for the week!

I predict.... Due to ongoing development and hardfork upcoming soon, .....

The next mental barrier we will break will be 15 USD per XMR.... (Just my guess, thanks)! :D

that has been reached.

Ha, forgot about that. I'm calling $20 next. On news of next release/beta. :D

Monero has been increasing spectacularly, despite this it's value has to be held in order to qualify it as a secondary currency.

Even though LiteCoin is silver, there is still room for more because of the integration alternative coins have in boom cycles which they rely on to enable increases in circulation to spiral prices and connect economies.

BTC is by far the most expensive and since it introduced itself starting off in the way it did, there's nothing to match its growth... Bitcoin may top gold and so will many alt-coins every day that goes by.

Sorry, but I differ. There's no room for LTC when it has nothing besides some early momentum over XMR. Once there's a strong #2, why do we need a #3 which is inferior in every technical comparison? I don't hate LTC, I just don't see it as innovative enough to survive with any sort of relevance. It'll be the next Feathercoin.

LTC has a perfect niche for moving funds between exchanges.

I have always say i won't use any other crypto than Bitcoin but i changed my mind  recently ;D I am taking interest in Monero this days wich seems to me a good altcoin finally

LTC was a perfect niche for moving funds between exchanges. Why do you expect that to continue once XMR has both better features and better volume?

Because people are stupid and don't change. And xmr is not on many exchanges. :)

Yes i agree with this one, monero will not replace bitcoin at least for right now, because there are some that must be looked are like volume transaction of monero less than bitcoin,
i saw on http://coinmarketcap.com/ bitcoin is still number one and monero is around 5 up to 3 for the last rise price of monero, it will be hard for monero can replace bitcoin.

A month ago it wasn't on Bitfinex or Kraken. Give it 12 months and I'd be surprised if it weren't on Coinbase + Bitstamp + BTC-e + Chinese exchanges.

monero very fantastic and amazing
yerterday bitcoin price is very high price
another altcoin down price, but monero still strong incraese price

What?! Zcash?  :D

Looks like it could be the end of FOMO for Monero.  Monero going down everyday while projects like Maidsafe are going up.

Sure, interest in Monero has died off, if you've got the attention span of a gnat. It's been about two weeks since it was at $18...omg it's the end. LOL.

And maidsafe? Here you're calling it a project that is going up and only a couple of hours ago you called it a vaporware scam. Did you skip your meds today?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1753089.msg17511707#msg17511707

Monero price looks promising, Instead of buying, is there any faucets for monero??

We need monero on more exchanges that is true but slowly it seems more exchanges are adding it and I don't see why it will not be on more exchanges by the end of the year.

I don't even think we want the bloat from speculators playing arbitrage. Let LTC have it's niche, it works just fine for that, doge does as well.

Exchanges ? Which ones ? govt compliant ones ?
I love how you all skipped over that key point.

On the hoody they printed secure, untraceable etc.
Uhmmm compliant exchanges follow AML laws so.. uhh ?

You all catching on yet ?

And what exactly are you all clinging to with your future with Monero ?
What exactly is it that is going to get it from where it is now to a world wide USED currency ?
Dark Market adoption ?
Are you all REALLY actually looking ahead or just short term at your wallets ?

Maybe a safer bet would be to hitch a ride on the HaleBop Comet next time it passes ?
I hear they are passing out robes and Nike shoes and stirring the Kool-Aid as we speak..
"Heavens Gate" Anon Coin ..to the moon !

The price is too high at this moment i believe.

AFAIK, DCR isn't actually being used for any real life apps/platforms.  It's hard to say that something is undervalued when it has no practical use yet.

Crypto currencies only make sense in the frame of dark markets.  Or else they become a very wasteful, clumsy form of fiat.
The idea is that most of the world economy becomes a dark market.  Otherwise, all this doesn't make sense.

Jeez i can't count how many times i have been over this with you.

Your preaching to the choir.. i have been a P2P supporter since around 2000.
And a pirate going back to the 80's playing "stolen" Choplifter etc on jumbo floppies.

You are trapped in your own personal idealism that the world does not share.
I am all for bending rules or being a rebel but you are being unrealistic and your age is showing.
I have heard far faaaar too much silly crypto rabble over the years chanting all kinds of silly ass stupid rhetoric.
I heard it all and LOTS !

- They can't stop us.
- We don't need FIAT or connections to it.
- They can't regulate our coins or put laws on them.

WRONG ..they already did, wake up !

I will admit best i can tell ANON coins have offered the only crypto currency innovation yet.
All the other shit is gimmick tokens for profit bullshit that has no real need or future.
But the problem is if your aim and big goal for a bright future is being added to Dark Markets
..then your fucked !
Trust me that won't end well.

And who the hell said crypto currencies were fully intended to "Stick it the man" ?
I think that is an exaggeration and silly childish little angle you are pushing for your own agendas.
You need a battle to fight so you created one.. it's what kids do best on the internet.
Who the hell says crypto has to be about fighting the police and govt's around the world ?
So what if FIAT has problems ? What the fuck does that have to do with it ?

Show me the quotes from Satoshi and other first day guys where they outlined their manifesto for world domination to fight the govt and topple fiat and abolish all law and create a greedy corrupt money grubbing scam scene for profits.

Because that is where your cute little idealism is born from.. profits.
Don't bullshit me with chanting Free Market like you are all philosophers and are being altruistic with your speeches.
You are shit talkers making pitiful excuses so you can keep making money off of THOUSANDS OF shitcoins

..in a lawless scam ridden scene.

Monero cheerleaders are often kids.. that know fuck all about life.
Dreamers..
Grow up kids.
Get realistic and look around.. your anti-law agenda already failed.

So what now ?

THE RISE AND RISE OF MONERO ? To what ? ...from where ?
(if you all mean price wise then this bullshit should be moved to Speculation)

I don't contradict this.  You're missing the logic.  I said: "crypto ONLY MAKES SENSE if it is anarchistic and hence necessarily anonymous, in the frame of dark markets and if a serious part of the world economy becomes a dark market".  

You are saying that it is an utopia that a serious part of the world economy becomes a dark market.  This is very well possible, and that doesn't contradict my statement.  It only indicates that crypto, all of crypto, simply doesn't make sense, that's all.

My statement is akin to "building boats only makes sense if the idea is that we will transport people and goods over the oceans and seas".  Your statement is like "it is an utopia to think that we will transport a lot of goods and people over the oceans".  Both statements are not in contradiction.  They simply imply that making boats doesn't make much sense, that's all.

Now, the question is: should we make boats with holes, or boats that float ?  My point is that, given that boats only make sense when they transport people and goods over the oceans, they should float.  If your argument now is that they can just as well contain holes, because they will not go on the ocean, then my point is that that is silly, because the *only sensible use case is when they float*.  If your argument is that this use case is utopia, and will not happen, then we can just as well stop right away, but in any case a boat with holes in it doesn't make sense.  Maybe a boat that floats doesn't make sense either, but at least, it is the only one that can POTENTIALLY make sense.  The one with holes, never.

I hope you see the analogy:
boats are crypto currencies,
transporting goods and services is a good part of the world's economy goes dark,
crypto with holes is crypto that complies to the law,
crypto that floats is crypto that is suited for dark markets (anonymous etc...).


But then crypto is simply a useless concept, that's all.  Use fiat.


Simply because if crypto complies to "police and govs", then it is fiat, and if fiat has problems, that is simply because "police and govs" want it to have problems.  If crypto complies, it should then have exactly the same problems as fiat, because fiat's problems are *organized* and are the *purpose* of "govs and police".  


Satoshi didn't know everything, right.  He's not the author of the Bible or something.  He did something great, but didn't realise exactly what he was doing.  We are allowed to think independently of Satoshi.

You should read two books:
"Debt: the first 5000 years" by David Graeber and
"what has the government done to our money"
https://mises.org/library/what-has-government-done-our-money


On the contrary, I think crypto is exactly over because of this.  It didn't work out.  It is now institutionalized, part of the government and establishment games, and it will simply be integrated as yet another financial toy to rip off people.

Bitcoin is now a Chinese government fiat (or will soon be).  It wouldn't surprise me that the Chinese gov will possess more than 50% of all coins 10 years from now.
If "crypto works out", bitcoin will be China's dollar with which it will dominate the world economy, like the dollar was the US fiat, with which it dominated the world economy for almost a century.  Bitcoin is worse because no freedom is allowed, everything is traceable.

Crypto is just a wasteful way of doing fiat, containing a lot of hassle that isn't necessary when it complies to govs.  There's no need in cryptographic proofs if in the end, the gov decides, no ?

..financial toy to rip off people ?

uhmmm ? LOL

Dino there is no reason we can't work WITH the big bad evil authorities.
The notion Fiat is corrupt and this retarded bullshit is not is silly.

And i think the idea of a digital currency is not that crazy either.

You are good at spewing off a massive diversion though.
Monero ? Heard of it ? Care to comment on the topic title ?

I see what is.. the reality if you look around.
Poloniex taking picture ID so traders can potentially get ratted out to the Fed's.
Like this forum or any other service within arms reach of the US govt.
theymos and his opinion do not trump law.
If they show up at his doors and say either you play ball or you are going to Guantanamo Bay what do think he will say about handing over a users info here ?
Coinbase ? Cryptsy ?
They all do it if they are complaint.. even Polo's old XMR based market exchange.
Which was rather odd to say the least they added dedicated markets for Monero years ago.

blah blah blah.. see ya in jail idiots.
Chant "Free Market" to the judge or when you are in the FBI hot seat.
Did Gavin say no when they requested he show up and answer questions ?
Nope.. he was more than willing to do what he was told.
Ever heard of him ? He used to be a guy on the foundation who got a yearly 1 million dollar salary.

So what is the big rise of Monero about ?
Where to now guys ? What is your big plans ?

EDIT:

I would prefer we had no law on the web at all but it's a dream that is not realistic.
We can't ACT like that is how it is NOW !

I would rather have all laws thrown out and have the web as the wild west.
But once i see the need to interact with FIAT as a necessity i see big problems.
There is a link to FIAT and that is the source of problems.
..that *IS* reality guys.

You don't get to pretend your not connected or lie and say we don't need connections.

People you have a problem brewing here i have warned you all about loudly since 2013.
You are not listening and playing games for ROI's for as long as you can get away with it.
Rather than dealing with things like you SHOULD be.

I told you all reg's are coming and you all said oh they can't do anything laughing.
Wrong.. i was right look around !

Of course, if you can take advantage of other people through evil authorities, that's what you should do.  I do that too.  Big bad evil authorities are exactly that: a tool to help you rip off others.  It is a good tool if you can get more out of it than you are ripped off by it.  This is why the best thing to do, when there are big bad evil authorities, to live off public money, producing nothing, or almost nothing, and be partisan of more taxes for the productive.  Which is exactly what big bad evil authorities do.  

The problem with that is that you should be crazy to get productive, because you will get ripped off.  The only interesting way there is when there are big bad evil authorities around, is to be fed by taxpayer's money, and try to produce as little as possible.  That's what I do.  But I would prefer to be productive.  Only, if ever I would be, big bad evil authorities will come and take, what, 70% of it.  So no.  I am unproductive, and get paid a lot of taxpayer's money.

I would prefer to live an honest life, where I can spend what I earn by doing stuff for other people who pay me freely for it.  But this is impossible when there are big bad evil authorities around.  They want 70% of my production.   If I produce A value for others, I can only obtain A/3 from others.  The 2/3 A are taken away by big bad evil authorities.  If I would like to swap 10 apples from my apple tree against 10 oranges from you, I can't.  Big bad authorities will take away 7 of my apples, and only let me have 3 oranges for my 10 apples.

Yes, I do get something in return: bad schooling I cannot chose, a lot of unfriendly foreigners without a job but with a lot of uneducated kids and a lot of money from the state, and a few other public services.

So living an honest life is not possible when there are big bad evil authorities around, and you have to choose between being their slave, or joining them.


Fiat is not corrupt.  Fiat is only a tool in big bad evil authorities' hands to pump value from the productive into the hands of the unproductive.  Like all the rest of big bad evil authorities, as it is the reason why they exist in the first place.


But most fiat money is already digital.  And doesn't need miners, PoW, PoS, or any other crypto constructions, needed to be "trustless".


Poloniex is not what crypto is for.  Crypto was to be a currency: an intermediate good, that you obtain when you provide goods and services, and that you can trade against other goods and services, in a peer-to-peer way.  It needed to be anonymous, because big bad evil authorities cannot have it that you exchange goods and services with someone else, without taking 70% of it or so.  Crypto didn't need fiat exchanges.  But it failed at being an intermediate peer-to-peer good.  It became a financial toy in the hands of mostly, establishment.


This is not only the problem, this makes the endeavour useless.  I'm not saying that crypto will die.  On the contrary, it will live.  It will be taken over by big bad evil authorities, even shoved down our throats, and Satoshi has given them the tool they couldn't even dream of having: total transparency of all financial interactions of all citizens the big bad evil authorities are using as their productive slaves.
Next time you give you neighbour's kid some money because he comes and mows your lawn, big bad evil authorities will see it, and want 70% off it.


I told you already a million times, that I don't speculate, I don't trade and I almost don't hold any crypto.  Most of what I have is to use or to experiment.  I think that ripping off others in this zero sum game is shameful even if lucrative.
I am fond of crypto if it is to escape big bad evil authorities, that's all.  It's turning into a nightmare, where big bad evil authorities are going to use this invention to rip us off even more.


But if regulation is coming, then you should avoid crypto totally, or try to use it underground.  There' s strictly no point in using a regulated crypto.  Or you believe in it, and you go outside of the law, or you think you should comply, and you use fiat.  But using regulated crypto is crazy.

Dino you missed the point.. FIAT is no more or no less corrupt and evil as this crypto shit.
And it is also rapidly gaining the same level of laws & regulation anyway.

You are not really addressing the topic here or Monero directly.
All i am hearing is long winded diversions about how FIAT is bad and that is because of govt control etc.
There for the only solution is to create a crypto coin that side steps govt authority etc.
Who says you can or should ? YOU ?

So far you are failing badly at your rebel angst.
I have provided a huge list of examples of where law etc is encroaching hard on crypto.
You ran out of time to chant "Free Market' ..it's no longer a valid retort.

Further more the underlying point i think you are trying to make (to defend Monero) is broken.

FIAT is taxed and that pays for the roads you drive on etc.
Crypto coins should not be ?
You are the SAME people who have been chanting for years crypto should REPLACE FIAT.
And it should be lawless and no one should have to pay tax on their coins etc.

Hope you are ready for garbage to pile up in the streets and all public services funded to be cut off.

Your type needs to grow up.
The USA and Canada already have have had tax laws for crypto coins since 2013.
Canada got it first and i said i told you so ..the day Coindesk aired the news.
To the very same crypto rebel kids who chanted they can't do anything etc.
Wrong.
They can and they have and they will !

The guy who was running KickAssTorrents.com is in jail isn't he ?
Thanks Coinbase  >:(

If and when the IRS or REV-CAN finds out you have been cheating them on your tax return buckle up !
They will throw your cocky idealistic crypoto-teen-rebel ass's in jail hard !
After all they couldn't touch Al Capone but when he fucked with the IRS they took him out at the knees hard.

Keep puttering around spewing crypto-rabble.
You have little time so get it in here while you can.. count your ROI'z bullshitters.
Just get ready to deal with an IRS audit with the Monero Anon block chain.
A coin designed to hide money from the Fed's because you don't feel like you should have to pay taxes.
A coin designed to perpetuate criminal activity from terrorists, pedophiles and drug dealers.
Only problem is the arrests are already mounting guys..

So get ready to feed the police your little Bitcointalk i don't have to pay taxes speech ok shitcoin aficionado's.
I am sure they will simply take the cuff's off and say "oh, well then.. why didn't you show us your Bitcointalk post sooner.. you are free to go"  :D

PS:
Monero is rising ? from where to where ?
Where can it go ? What is the long term agenda here ?

If that's so, then fiat is better.  That's my point.  Fiat is much better than crypto, because it doesn't need miners, it doesn't need peer to peer networks, there is not a block chain limit, there is no crypto hassle.  It works fast, it can be reversed without problems, the government can control it legally as it wants it to with a simple law (or phone call to the banks...).  fiat is much, much less hassle, much much more efficient, much, much less wasteful on computing and network resources.  There's no point to have crypto then.


Well, one should if one thinks, like I do, that government is evil.  But you are fully right that fighting evil can be dangerous, especially powerful evil like the government.
However, IF one decides to fight it, one should use tools that allow one to hope to fight it, and not tools with holes in it.  Weapons that don't work won't do.  IF YOU DECIDE TO FIGHT, you should use weapons that work.  And if you don't decide to fight, you don't need weapons.  But weapons that do not work, are useless inventions.
Crypto that is transparent, is like a gun that cannot shoot: useless.  But if you do not want to fight the government, you don't need guns AT ALL.  You can use their fiat.  And if you want to fight it, better take guns that can shoot.


Not really.  Of course the state will rule out guns that shoot.  You will be allowed to use guns that don't shoot.  But what's the point ?


Nothing should be taxed.  If you want a road, you pay for the road.  If you don't want one, you shouldn't have to pay for it (as a function of what you produce !).  You don't pay taxes for roads.  They give you roads to have an excuse to take taxes.  In the beginning, the state taxes.  On the sixth day, they decided to make a road, to keep you taxed.  But you're confusing goal and means.  The goal is taxing.  The means is giving you a road.


Indeed.  But apparently, this is not catching on.  In that case, crypto is useless.  This is why I think that crypto failed.  Dark markets are not gaining much in importance, most people are still following the law (or pretending so).  In that case, there's no point for crypto.


Public services are much more expensive than paid-for services.  The people that collect garbage, do it for a wage. This means that with all the collected taxes, this can be done.  But taxes serve especially to make an elite very rich, and to waste a lot of money on lobby programs (nuclear arms that are never used, a lot of silly but expensive military actions that only serve to make arms dealers rich and to keep dictators in place in foreign countries, ...).  So the taxes we pay are LARGELY more than what is to be spend on private services that replace public services, be it roads, garbage collections, or telephone networks (oops, that's private now, isn't it).  


If crypto is taxed, and you follow the law, then there's no point in having crypto.  Fiat is way way better in that case.  Like there's no point in having guns that cannot fire.

This is why I asked you several times, what makes you interested in crypto (apart from a greater-fool game).  I'm interested in it because it held the promise of being a tool to bring down evil government, but it doesn't work out.  Without that, I fail to see a use case.  I cannot think of a single reason why crypto should exist if it is not to bring down evil government by "tax asphyxiation".  I simply fail to see what it is good at, otherwise.

Crypto IS taxed.

http://www.coindesk.com/irs-bitcoin-tax-guidelines-mean/
http://www.coindesk.com/canada-revenue-agency-tax-rules-apply-bitcoin/

Crypto isn't taxed.  The government wants you to pay taxes on it, that's different.  But the idea is that you try to hide it.  You could just as well say that during WW II, it was forbidden to be a rebel fighter by the German authorities in occupied countries.  The rebels didn't obey, right ?  
I consider paying taxes an evil deed, because you make the evil government stronger.  But I admit paying taxes too.  I'm not very proud of this deed, but I'm, indeed, afraid of their violence.  I hope I compensate by consuming more tax payer money than I pay, and by being as unproductive as I can, so that I'm a net waste for the state, hence making it weaker than if I were being productive and paying taxes on it.

But with crypto, if you do not try to hide it, and declare your crypto and pay your taxes, why on earth are you using crypto ?  Why not do everything you did with crypto, with fiat then ?

why are you reporting old news, what you linked is from 2014 and 2013, we all know that bitcoin is seen as a property in the usa but not in all country this is true and you have that coinbase operate on all country, and also your article only talk about bitcoin not crypto, crytpo can't be taxed because stuff liek monero are anonymous, can't be traced no matter what the government do

  A very good coin maybe i would buy some

The problem with any way of hiding value for a mighty state that wants to take it away is of course that stuff is valuable mainly in interaction with others.   The only value you can truly hide is knowledge, as long as you keep it for yourself.  As most value is created in economic interactions, the weak point of failure is exactly that you have to interact with others, who can betray you.  Most hackers know that "social engineering" is way way more effective and valuable than pouring over thousands of lines of code to find a hole.  

So as long as mighty states want your value, you run a risk if you have to interact with others on that value.  This is a problem that monero cannot solve of course.  If you've sold a service (say, homework help) to someone else who paid you in monero, then that person can always betray you to the state and that state can come after you to take away 2/3 of the value you provided (called "taxes"), with a punishment on top of it because you didn't give it to them right away.

Of course, all bets are off if you use centralized services.  That's a gold mine for states.  

It is only in this (admittedly risky) endeavour to try to hide economic activity from the sticky fingers of the state, that I see any reason for crypto to exist.  I fail to see any other use case that isn't covered better with fiat-like systems.  But, as I said, it remains a risky business, only open for those people who love liberty more than comfort, and willing to take huge risks of others betraying them.  And as we can see, there aren't many around.  So most probably, this project (crypto currencies) failed and is on the verge of becoming a weapon in the hands of big bad evil states instead of a tool to fight them, especially transparent crypto.

Try harder you government shill!

XMR brothers I encourage you to take a look at DCR: https://medium.com/eeter/decred-developing-identity-and-design-system-for-a-digital-currency-17df76ab67c8

dcr wallet pic: https://twitter.com/decredproject/status/825779685485322240


It is also a great crypto project as XMR is. Bringing us new innovation to the space.

The law that says Murder in the USA is old so it's not relevant anymore ?
You understand how legal law works right ?

I posted it because the guy earlier was denying it and he STILL is right after i last posted.

Reporting old news ? The laws do not "expire"  ::)
If you do NOT pay your taxes you are in fact at risk of being thrown in jail for tax-fraud.
Then we can get into AML laws which are also in effect across crypto.

If you have an audit they say bring in your receipts.
So uhhh what are you going to do when your transactions were deliberately obfuscated using an ANON coin ?
Have all the exchange staff collect up your trade history etc and then hand it off to the Fed's ?
(Like they have admitted to doing already)

I want the kids playing this cute little game for as a well known cloner put it.. "For fun & profits" realize they are playing a deadly serious game.

You guys ARE in fact breaking laws on purpose and are now criminals and are guilty and may in time get caught.
How do you know Poloniex etc is not constantly handing over your data to the IRS ?
If it is requested they WILL comply i guarantee it !

Monero idiots chant well, i don't want to pay my taxes.
Neither do i but i do because i don't want my ass arrested.
Grow the fuck up kidiot Investard brats.  ::)

And if you don't like paying your taxes then get the fuck off my paved roads assholes !
If you don't pay then don't use the service.

By the way..
I brought up that because i believe it is the single biggest barrier to the "Rise and Rise of Monero"
You know the topic here none of these guys want to address.
Once i ask about the future of Monero all these guys go silent and pour on the attacks & diversions.

So true and unfortunate at that! All the Blue laws need to die! We live under our own form of sharia law only difference is it's based on the bible and not the koran. All laws should have a timeframe that they will get reviewed at, that would keep the lawmakers busy and instead of making new ones everyday they would be fixing the old ones or repealing them. This is so obvious I don't know why no-one ever uses this as a platform. The problem is that Politicians don't think they are doing their job unless they are passing laws, that is their metric.

The review concept is not a bad idea.

http://www.dumblaws.com/

What i think also needs to be reviewed is the shill's perpetuating Monero's grand rise and rise.

What has it accomplished and where exactly is it going ?
Step outside Bitcointalk walk outside and breath real air and tell me all those people you see will be abandoning fiat for lawless dark market Monero anon coin tokens by a millionaire and his paid lackies.

Notice how the entire crypto scene buries it's head in the sand when it comes down to reality ?

I believe XMR is the best tech Virtual currency for the world, we need financial security and the fact criminals use it is actually a proof of it's safety. Criminals also use every other form of legitimate currency so trying to label XMR with that is just foolish. If the3re was a better tech that existed right now I would be supporting that, I care not about those in the community that have pissed you off and blinded to you the fact that the tech is all that matters.

Auction plug - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1791823.0

;D

You obey corrupt laws, you should go to this site www.dumbass.com

Do you guys think you won something here ?
I made Monero look like swiss-cheese.
And the best you can do is dance around a little ?

Wanna know what is dumb ? Thinking your little opinions matter.
It don't.

The fact you have 0 legit retorts proves my point here.. Monero has no fucking future.

A currency for the world ?
What in the fucking hell have i been talking about each and every single god damn post for YEARS ?
You naive shill's skip over any and all rational explanation to how "the world" is going to end up using Monero.. one day.

You Monero idiots are the dumbest fucking shill's in all of crypto.

Your opinions mean squat.
Laws DO exist and they WILL be enforced whether you like it or not dumb fucks.
Sorry but you have no choice in the matter.
"Secure" he says earlier ?
Seen the earlier post i made where idiotpony posted his disclaimer ?
I could cite others from the past too.. all you guys do is shill bullshit for bucks.. BADLY !

If it's good enough for 3% of dark market criminals then it's secure enough for "the world" ?
Uhmmm did you just say that ? ROFL
Where do i even begin to start pounding that gay little shitty retort into the dirt ?
Lets start off by pointing Monero was just added to DM's and has not been used long enough to claim "secure"
At best you can say so far.. best you can tell.
Heard of Silk Road ? used it lately ?

And according to you dumb ass's the 3% of DM users translate into global world adoption and abandoning any and all financial law and dropping FIAT in favor of buying the millionaire's bags ?
You guys must so high your trippin' balls !

I can't even believe how fucking dumb you all are.
You think the entire world (the majority) WANTS to abandon all financial laws ?
Are you god damn high ?
Who the fuck paid those bail-outs way back in the USA ?
You drop FIAT for a secure anon coin at Bitcointalk ?
Is theymos going to hand out bail-out money if Monero tanks to shit if an exploit is found ?
Who is to say one hasn't been found already ?
One exploit and the whole entire chain has unraveled exposing every single user that ever used Monero.

THEN...

You foolish Investards think you can actually win :D

You naive kidiots here actually think you stand a chance in hell at going anywhere and doing anything let alone bring down govt and evading taxes and killing FIAT etc ?
You are high as fuck if you little morons think that !

The USA alone will take you out before you can even blink you snot nose cocky little crypto brats.
It's common sense that if the entire US govt's financial system is under serious threat.
You will all be dealt with and swiftly with ease.

Let's see how fast that little 3% niche market lasts when all the Monero big mouth shill's start vanishing one after another and their gambling sites etc are taken down.

You think Crypto in general has unbreakable faith in the success of Monero ?
FUCK NO !
They are loitering around trying to squeeze a buck off it and will run at the first sign of trouble.
When faced with the men-in-black at their door FEBO & Friends will tuck their little tails between their legs.

You know why the USA has not put severe pressure down on Monero ?
Because its not a threat.

The outside world and the people here give's 0 fucks about it.
There is nothing but 5 blow hard rejects here spouting off about it's "Rise & Rise"
Which amounts to a mini little profits & ROI's circle jerk in the crypto bubble.

FIAT vs Morono Coin ? guess who will win ?

Remember my Monero French Police Fraud topic ?
Remember how Latapie Risto's employee vanished for ages then came back apologizing with a story about a police investigation ?

ooooooooooooh i am soooooooooooooooooooooooooo sure he mouthed them off and told them "I don't have to pay taxes" or "I don't have to follow FIAT law" etc etc..

Nope he was on his knee's sucking police cock guaranteed !
Probably already ratting out most of you long ago idiots.

Funny thing is i am warning you stupid fucks.
I am doing you a favor and you don't even see it.
Grow the fuck up before you end up in jail snot nose brats.

Planet earth does not give 2 shits about your opinion on "Law".. you will cuffed the same regardless of Dino's anti-law free market rebel teen speeches.

Just seen a guy recently arrested on DM's for selling Fentanyl.
Guess what ? Canada just gave a guy 14 years for selling it and they announced lots of new police measures and international cooperation.
They are on a blood thirsty man hunt for anyone involved and tops on the list is you guessed it.. Dark Market dealers ..that Monero morons are pandering to and bragging about.

I can't stress how unbelievably god damn stupid the Monero idiots here are.
I swear either you are all brain damaged and blind by the fear that you can't give up or your "investment" will evaporate.... or
You are actually setting up Monero shit as a covert project to nail DM's assholes.

Either way i can not comprehend how anyone would want anything to do with this bullshit in the slightest never mind chanting FIAT is dead long live Monero (the FIAT and Financial Law killer)

With out a fight ?

There is no such place as "Planet" Earth.
And why are you so concerned about Monero, why don't you just move along and stay faithful your beloved "authority"

I am not scared of your brainless thugs

When are they coming for me, Soon™ or in Two weeks™?

“The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.” Ayn Rand

I'm sure this applies to penguins too.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUH0RU7WsAANxWA.jpg

Who is going to stop you ? Take your pick..
When Gavin Anderson was requested to come and meet with the FBI ...he went !

Jesse Ventura said the same after being elected.
They brought him into a dark room full of FBI agents and grilled his ass hard.

Next up we seen the FBI agent mentioning looking into Monero recently.
Soo....
You really have 0 reason to think you are all in the clear with this anti-law fiat killer system you have invented.. for DM usage and ROI's on govt compliant Poloniex.

When ? i don't care.. that is not the point.
HOW is.

Explain to me how Monero is on the RISE and RISE..
From where to where ?

And don't feed me this one day crap skipping the part in the middle again.
All i have heard is oh 3% of DM market adoption and then ohhh my god BAM! the world dropped FIAT and all financial law in favor of Monero coins on Polo.

Care to explain how the fucking hell that is going to happen ?

---

EDIT:

Get this people i went and looked just now and Dash is just under $20 a coin and Monero is at about $13  :D

I'd say that is an indication of what the Altcoin scene thinks..

My point is: if you think that state and law will prevail in the end, then fiat vs. any crypto, guess who will win ?

Thus, my question: if you think that state and law will prevail in the end, why the hell do you care about crypto in general ?  Crypto is doomed if law and state will prevail, it has no purpose.  Fiat is better if law and state prevail.  Simple as that.

Note that I didn't contradict the opinion that law and state might very well prevail.  My only point is that if that's the case, crypto is meaningless, and even dangerous, because it will then be used by  state and law against you.  So if law and state will prevail, you better get far away from the silliness that's called crypto.

Fiat vs bitcoin ?  Guess who will win ?  It might very well be that bitcoin BECOMES a kind of fiat.  And then it is or useless, or extremely dangerous.

FIAT works (with AML laws) now doesn't it ?

I don't think this is a debate about Crypto vs Laws.

I am talking about the Rise and Rise of Monero.
That topic title has what meaning ?
Where is it rising to ? What is the long term vision here ?
THAT is where i am pointing out law as an issue.. for the future.

I just seen this..

http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-story-188949-5-.htm#188949


Then check out this..

https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=Fentanyl+dealer+arrested+selling+alphabay

I am not even going to link the sites posting the news story here !
I refuse to click on any of those DM web sites.

Ohhh but not you guys !
You actually had the god damn nerve to proudly brag about Monero's new exciting news !
CONGRATULATIONS MONERO IS NOW ACCEPTED ON ALPHA BAY !!!!1111ONE

Hooray !! we can all applaud right ?

That quote earlier noted that the DA considers Carfentanyl a terrorist threat.. caught being mailed via Dark markets in regular mail.

You all realize these packages are floating around the US mail system and if one of them broke open you could die from just a couple grains of Carfentanyl right ?

Are you all thinking about what you are doing here or simply pushing your agenda for ROI'z ?
i don't see fluffypony over here talking about this do i ?
Nope he was more worried about his cash cow illegal gambling site that was hacked.
And using my exact words as an excuse saying "EVERYTHING can and will eventually be hacked"
..except Monero of course which is "Secure, Private and Untraceable"

Sorry guys but you are not in any position to chant free market anymore.
Get your shit together, grow up and and FAST !

Lucky for you the big "rise" of Monero has been nothing at all so it has not attracted much attention yet.
(aside from the FBI guy saying they will look at it publicly)

Like to "Invest" do you guys ?
Well look around the dev's and shills and large whales behind Monero are oddly silent now aren't they ?
Probably because they know i am right and a shit-storm is coming.. eventually.

That's simple, no ?  If ever crypto is to have a meaningful future, it will be with monero-like anonymity features that allow/help/... to escape the law, because there's no future for law-abiding crypto.  It just can't win from fiat, which is much less of a hassle when it comes to being law-abiding, and has nothing else to offer.  There's nothing that crypto can offer, within the framework of legality, that fiat can't do better.  So forget about "law-abiding crypto".  It is an oxymoron.  It is like non-hurting weapons.

But I'm not saying that crypto IS going to have a meaningful future.  Only, IF EVER it is to have one, it will be with monero-like properties of anonymity.

Dark markets are not about selling dangerous stuff (it is only part of it).  It is about taking back economic freedom.

@Dino
That is fine and for the most part i agree with you. (some of it LOL)
The real question here is "The rise of Monero"

Either it can beat the law or.. it's fucked.

Place your bets  :D

I said long ago here it going to end up pigeon holed as a DM niche thing.
So where is it rising to ?

Sure, but IF any crypto is to make sense, monero is much better placed than the other stuff.  Until better anon tech comes along.

Which doesn't mean that bitcoin isn't going to the moon at a certain point, but it will simply be Chinese fiat, and the "moon" will be for the Chinese government.

If ever crypto "goes mainstream", and is not severely anon protected (and maybe monero doesn't cut it, who knows), it is extremely simple for any conglomeration of states (like "the united nations" or whatever global gov. type of state cartel) to pass an international convention that it is considered illegal to possess secret keys of crypto coin addresses WHICH HAVEN'T BEEN SHARED with a "crypto central bank authority" or something.  Meaning, you're not allowed to have any, say, bitcoin address of which you have the secret key that you didn't give to the crypto central bank.  Each year, on your tax declaration, you declare all crypto coin addresses you possess ; the "authorities" can then verify that you gave the corresponding secret key to the "central bank".

To make this "secure" so that no employee of that central bank can steal your money, it would be easy:  5 (say) different entities ("central banks") have each their master secret key, of which they render their public key, eh, public, say, P1, P2, P3, P4 and P5.  
You encrypt, successively, your wallet keys with P1, P2, P3, P4 and P5, and you sign its hash with your secret wallet keys.  This 5-fold encrypted file, you send to the 5 entities and to your local government ("tax agency").  Nobody can reach your keys unless these 5 entities "conspire": to get to your wallet keys, they have to successively decrypt, using S5, S4, S3, S2, and S1.  It is sufficient that one entity doesn't want to cooperate, and your keys are safe.  

Big gov. services scrutinize the block chain to try to find out if ever you've been using an address you didn't declare: they can check all addresses you declared using the signatures of your declarations.  If ever you're discovered using an address that you didn't declare, you're imprisoned, your children are poisoned, and after being tortured for 10 years, you're thrown to the sharks.

Every so many years, you're invited to "empty" your wallet to a new address, and then the 5 agencies decrypt all the received keys.  They issue of course new public keys for the next round.  They verify that you've sent them the right encrypted wallets.  If ever you didn't, you're also imprisoned, tortured and thrown to the sharks, and your children are poisoned.    So you cannot send them rubbish, because a few years later, they will find out.  The decryption with the old S1, ... S5 keys is not a problem, as these addresses are now empty: they can't steal you, but they can verify that you did declare the right keys and punish you if you didn't.

Whenever there's a financial crisis, there will be an agreement to put the 5 keys together so that the world government can confiscate all crypto money.  But they won't tell you.  As you've given the keys at any moment, and as you're not allowed to have addresses of which you didn't give the keys, they can, at any moment, confiscate whatever they want from anyone.  Crypto is then a dream for stealing governments.  Much easier and automated than with standard banking.  They all have it on a single server.  Crypto is the dictator's dream.

See, it is easy, when there's the law, to make crypto into fiat and confiscate everything, or put you to jail if you don't cooperate.  Like with fiat.

And the "trustless, distributed, unstoppable" silliness of crypto is over, and with it, its entire reason to exist.  Except that states will now impose it upon you.  Worse than fiat.

And the excuse will be "fiscal fraud, and financing terrorism" of course.  

2016 was quite a successful year for Monero on many aspects.  this thread was made in middle of year so for this Blaze guy early half of year as success. Mostly because of Hydrogen Helix binaries that come out on first January 2016.

Ah ! Delusional comments always make me nostalgic for the great Blackcoin thread of 2014......




....Specially when they acknowledge that they're promoting a tech stock, not a store of value - like I've been saying all along  :D

The only law I follow is the law of physics. It never changes and it applies to everyone!

That is cute..

I seen in the news yesterday that our Police force was mounting a massive army at the US border..
Armored vehicles machines guns and all that.
Know what happened ?
Turns out a native indian was caught with 2 guns wired to the underside of his vehicle while crossing the border.
Know what he said ? He claimed he did not recognize our law.
And.. he was arrested promptly on his Indian reserve.

There is no getting through to you cocky big mouth little bitches here.
And i highly doubt even 1% of you have the fucking balls to back up your mouth to cops face to face.
I sure as hell do LOL
Last time i got stopped by a cop in town riding my mountain bike i threw it at him hahahha
I picked up over my head and threw it beside him then chewed him out swearing.
I don't take any fucking god damn shit from anyone ever under any circumstance.
I don't give a flyin' fuck who you are.
Point being is you little shits here will buckle like a wall made of oatmeal in a heart beat when the pigs boot your door in.

@FEBO
That was incredibly vague and weak.

And you Monero defenders are bobbing & weaving hard.
I have pretty much re-asked the same question over and over and STILL no one has the slightest answer.

What do you constitute this so called "Rise" ?
And Rise again ? From where to where ?

What has Monero accomplished and where is it going longer term ?

As an investard you SHOULD be asking that or you are a fucking retard /.

It might be under-rated as a "pump & dump" coin actually. There seems to be something more sophisticated going on.

XMR traders are tracing out Florence Cathedral in a spontaneous expression of artistic liberation...

https://i.imgur.com/jwjyek8.png

Good question.

Monero took a new technology (cryptonote), outlined why it can't achieve its stated purpose as implemented (bytecoin), mapped out a plan to fix those flaws and achieve its stated purpose (https://lab.getmonero.org/) and wrote 740,000 lines of code to get the job done, so not exactly FUDding and self-glossing yourself non-stop or arguing with most everyone that your pet economic theory is correct and the whole cryptoworld has got it backwards--despite having no discernable knowledge about cryptosystems or economics--but it's something.

Sorry fulfilling the goal of a digital cash system hasn't impressed such bellwethers of accomplishment and luminaries of the crypto-universe, but since everyone else is offering soda machines and Hype, technology and science will have to do to differentiate monero from the rest of the coinz. Maybe XMR can add memes or slavenodes or inverse-time transactional schemes to (such) wow and amaze the two brain cells you have when you two dashtards rub your collective asses together.

Morons.

LMAO.  Very good rant.  9/10.

Toknormal is an especially luminous source of false light.

His accomplishment in the field of posting HUGE graphics containing NOTHING more than a picture of a ladder with a giant red arrow pointing to a picture of a shoe is a bellwether for the emerging world of postmodern surrealist crypto-art.

@toknormal
MIND = BLOWN  :D

@generalizethis (Mr. Fungibility)
I think that was weak and vague.
Less insults and more FACTS would be good ;)

I don't like Spoetnik should not be your Monero selling point when you are presented with the opportunity.

I doubt i have much more to add here.. at this point i am repeating myself.
I also am getting a non stop stream of evasive replies.

You Cult shill's had your big chance to sell Morono to the crowd here and you failed.

There's no problem with a coin dying to be replaced by a technologically better one.  After all, the use of a coin is during its life time, when it is used as an intermediate good to promote economic exchange.  Of course, for that, at a certain point in time, it needs to store value, and it didn't store value at the outset, so the nasty effect of that is that some people will win some value for nothing (seigniorage) which is paid for by those that hold the coins when the coin dies (hyperinflation).  In other words, any monetary asset also goes with a nasty side-effect: the transmission of value from "losers" (at the end, when hyper inflation sets in) to the "winners" (the early adopters).  But this effect should be small compared to the total value displaced in commercial relations during the coin's maturity, in other words, the number of times a coin goes around when its value is stabilized, should ideally be a big number.

But you're wrong in considering that the coin is a "tech stock", unless it is not used as a currency (in which case, this is nothing else but a greater-fool game, that is only interested in the nasty value-tranfer effect from losers to winners I referred to).  I was referring to technology in the sense of weaponry.  If it turns out that better, more efficient weapons against the state's sticky fingers are invented, and if for some reason, the currently used weapon has serious limitations or higher risks in using, then it is normal to switch to the better tech, no ?
I would think that technologically, you have dash which is better tech than bitcoin, and monero which is better tech than dash ; the jury is still out on zcash: zcash contains *in principle* better tech, but for the moment, the way it is put to work is much, much worse than monero (optional anon, which is a no-go ; trusted setup badly put in place ....).  I'm not talking about any economical fraud such as premining or the like.  I'm talking purely about the tech.

Well, there are a few points to be made.  If you want to fight a powerful enemy, you run of course the risk to get hurt (in this case, being put in a cage).  That goes with it.  But the fact that you can get hurt is not always a sufficient reason not to go to war.

So that Indian was right.  He didn't recognize those laws.  Of course, he got hurt, and he lost his battle, but that's no reason not to fight it.  If you're afraid to lose the battle, you shouldn't go to war, and become a slave.  You can also refuse to be a slave and fight.  Of course, chances are you will lose, but there's nothing wrong with that.  That's the name of the game.  The fact that your enemy wins, doesn't mean that you should comply.  But of course in doing so, you take a risk.

My second point, though, is, if you thing you should surrender before even fighting, why on earth are you considering crypto currencies, and why don't you fully comply with fiat ?

You never repeated why you are interested in crypto in the first place, and why on earth you would think it has something to offer over fiat, if the idea is to fully comply to the laws.

Because if crypto is fully complying to the laws, I don't see what advantages it can bring over fiat.  In fact, I can only see problems.  Fiat is much better than crypto if you're fully complying, no ?

This topic is not about why Spoetnik is "interested" in Crypto.. which i have explained around here endlessly then been bitched at for explaining it.
I see why you are digging and it's not going to bear fruit (you are wasting your time)

I came here because of an interest in crypto currencies in general.
Then i seen money could be made which is fine.. it comes with the territory as you just explained Dino ;)
Point being is that i was 100% anti-laws & regulations with crypto like everyone else.
I had not given it enough thought or had the chance to have experience shape that opinion yet.
In time i figured it's inevitable there needs to be a compromise for it to function (it being any widely adopted and used digital currency)

What i find offensive is shill's here painting a deceitful picture to the public.

Do you all have any bloody god damn clue how frustratingly insulting it is to tell ALL of the Monero idiots what fluffypony said when his dice site got hacked while they sit there and attack you personally and deny it like a horse refusing to drink water ?
..only for them to copy my words when it suits them. ::)

Or have them neg me over the Moenro French Police Fraud (he's not an employee) mysterious apology topic ?

I have already posted many times before how they say one thing then the compete opposite later then seem to forget or pretend to forget.
I have already said it's because they spew so much bullshit here they can't even remember what they have said in the past.
A huge massive red-flag of a liar !

This topic means what ?
All of you know damn well it's not about the failed Jaxx wallet or dice site hack.. or... it's about coin price.
Which means it does not even belong here.. so why is it here ? And which puppet-account posted it ?

They super bumped that other 900 page topic here 24/7 called "Monero Speculation" and i asked mod's for a year or two why it was allowed to be here when they were clearly keyword spamming with the title making sure it stays on page one (almost always at the top of the page) year after year.
Eventually i was stunned they finally moved it.. especially when they often did not even use it as "speculation" but simply as MSN chat for Monero shill's.

This topic ?
It's not about laws yes or no now is it ?
Is it about Spoetnik? nope.. wrong again LOL

It's about shill's painting a picture and bending the god damn rules here every fucking step of the way while playing dumb and attacking people personally.
Classy shit huh guys.

Look at Mr Fungibility who claims he has me on ignore (when it suits him)
Yesterday he changed the name of his topic to "_" with out the quotes LOL
Then moved it to off-topic.
Why ? because the last comments i made on it buried his ass again.. on the topic HE MADE !
ON ME hahahahaha  :D
"The three types of Spoetnik posts"
Why did he create that and why did the same cult guys neg me ruining my rating with lying ?
Heard of Monero ?

I think you can all tell these Monero guys have no integrity, class or credibility.
I literally could write a book (the size of a phone book) Note: Millennial kids it's what old people use to have to get phone numbers.
..on all their years worth of bullshit shenanigans.

Proof ? It's on the forum ..use the search button LOL

Rise ?
Well let me say i don't think the price of the coin has any significant meaning at all.
It's meaningless fake metric of success.

So what did they say a couple comments ago ?
They wrote lines of code ? uhhh what ? hahahhaha
That is "the rise" ?

Bobbing & weaving.. Monero has accomplished nothing what so ever and i don't even get how it's sitting at $13 a coin.
I would understand it if it seemed like it had a real potential to get some major adoption world wide.
And when the recent news had a headline saying the FBI is looking into Monero.. uhhh ?

All they do is sell innovashunz to investards... with one day.
Guess what ? ..the world at large does not LIKE Dark Market bullshit.
That has historically been a massive barrier to Bitcoin adoption.
Know how i figured that out ? People on the street told me to my face !
THEN.. i fucking Googled it and seen the web saying the same.

So bragging about DM adoption here a little while back ?
Yeah and then the subsequent FBI News message.. which is your last warning idiots. LOL

The shill's know better.
They know there is no chance in hell at getting major adoption because of the fact it is an ANON coin.

But they will keep cawing like crows about it's rise & rise of course.
Skipping over the part where they actually accomplished anything at all in the last 3 years and how they plan to conquer the world "one day"

It's the equivalent of a campaign quote i seen in a magazine by Trump while waiting in a doctors office..
When asked how he plans to get his campaign PROMISES completed the POLITICIAN said and i quote..
Do i need to point out how that is insane ?
Does that REALLY NEED to be said ?

His deporting illegals campaign agenda was addressed by Hillary publicly..
She said she looked at the matter and realized the logistics of it would be staggering.. nearly impossible.
She went into DETAILS about all the various problems it would pose and how difficult it would be to do technically.
And she knows because slept in the fucking white house LOL
What does Drumpf know ? How to run his mouth on his Reality TV show ? (which i am a fan of by the way)

Trumps cool & all, but i just don't feel it was appropriate hiring him for the job with no experience or a realistic detailed plan.

SO...

What is Monero's plan ?

And that Dino is WHAT i have been asking here over and over.  8)

PS:
"Real House Wives of the White House" airs on FOX on March 24th 2017.
Congratulations on your excellent win American the world is proud of you.

Monero is only useful if you're buying something illegal but I'm doubt if it can ever get more attention. Anonymous coins has very small niche for adoption Monero has no marketing plan and it is only associated with criminals. It also doesn't help to spread a word about XMR. Having this said, how can you expect ordinary Joe to use this currency, for example, buying a cup of coffe? Why he needs it? In my opinion, Monero should continue to do what it is doing but I do not expect the rise of adoption or price. 

What is the goal ? DM usage ? Typical consumer adoption ? Bank usage ? What ?
Realistically i can not see much past DM usage.. and can we consider that a success ?

Success will drag profit along with it.
You get one then then other.
i don't care about coin prices.
What i care about is success.

What has Monero risen from ? Best i can tell ..market price.
Based on what ? 3% Dark market usage ?

I have said before if you all believe in the project then by all means go nuts.. invest away.
I just don't see how Monero is going anywhere or any other combative anon styled coin.
If Monero is going to be a problem they know who all the Monero guys are and will be at their doors instantly.

Think of this people..
Trump is blocking Muslims on the idea that they are a *potential* terrorism threat.
Anon coins are not a "potential" threat.. they ARE a threat !

So the way i see it is you are investing in a future fight.
Who says Monero is going to win ?
They can only survive by staying low key flying under the radar as a niche coin.
Think about it people.. don't be blinded by rhetoric and idealism and false hope.

Well, point me then to one of your explanations, because I never saw one.  I only saw that each time I asked you, you told me that you weren't going to answer "because you already did so in the past".

My point is that a fully law-abiding crypto has no use over fiat.  So I think that someone who is at the same time claiming that crypto should be fully law-abiding, should not be into crypto, or is making some logical mistake, or is simply in it for the greater-fool game, at which point I think that wanting to attract people into a Ponzi scheme is a dishonest (but potentially lucrative) thing to do.

Why should ordinary Joe use anything else but fiat to buy a cup of coffee ?  It is faster, easier, more legally "protected", there's no crypto hassle, no peer-to-peer hassle, no miners, just your trusted bank which is trusted because it is part of the government/establishment.

There's nothing that can compete with fiat if it is to be totally law abiding, is there ?

No there is not.
And even if there was such a thing, goverments wouldn't allow it and just remove people that brought it in from exsistence  :P

That's exactly my point.  People aiming for "law abiding crypto" are deluded.  In as much as crypto will be law abiding, it will be entirely centralized by government (by compulsory key escrow or whatever so that it is theirs whenever they want to, like on Cyprus) and just a wasteful, clumsy form of fiat.  And all the rest will end up being outlawed in any case.

It depends what aspect you are interested in. I hope you can check price how it moved from January till August or when this tread started. I think OP thought just general awareness or maybe just price.  That is my suspicion, you could PM him and ask what about Monero surprised him that much to use this Tittle.


Monero is just on beginning of its path so had not accomplished almost nothing. It is just there for everyone to test and use it. I have no really vision what will be with Monero long term.  It is an experiment.  I do believe a successful.

What other usage is there for crypto ?  DM taken in the broader sense of "economic liberty" of course, because that's what DM are: free exchange without govs stealing (taxes), without govs imposing their buddy's certifications, without govs imposing their forms of protectionism, without govs imposing who may trade what with whom against what tariffs, ....

If the economic act you want to do with crypto is fully legal, why not do it with fiat ?

I used the title because I believe in the project. I have been buying XMR since it was trading at a stable .50 - 1.00 area. Great project and tech.

PS. My account Blazin8888 was hacked a few months back around the same time when the bitcointalk forum passwords went up for sale on the dark web. I cant get my account back, have contacted Theymos.

The below picture.. was not about "buddy certifications".

http://i65.tinypic.com/35d2536.jpg

It was about warning people about fraud, unfair practices etc.
Remember when Martha Stewart and Bernie Madoff was arrested ?
I guess that was bad right ? They should have let them go ?

AML ?


Stealing ? (taxes)

Then i suggest you don't ever call 911 for services and don't put your garbage out for pickup or drive on public roads etc......

This whole anti-govt thing you got going on is getting a bit silly.
If you need to fight them then can i suggest you create your own internet ?
Who do you think manages the web for all of the USA ? it's the US DOD running the backbone / relays etc.

I love how your type love to reap the rewards every step of the way when it comes to the services provided by taxation.. except you just feel like it's not your obligation to contribute to paying your proper share.

You remind me of our Canadian Native Indians who get a massive tax break on things like Tobacco and get their own land etc and are not forced to pay the same tax as every other Canadian except they are entitled to ALL of the same services we are and much much MORE !

Wrong. Ever tried sending say $50 to an individual across the world where that individual does not have a bank account, credit card PayPal etc.? If one takes the position that the only valid legal  payments are from the 1% to the 0.0001% where electronic fiat payments actually work then I would agree with the premise that there is no legal use for crypto, but when one actually tries to make a payment to not just a member of the poor but even to a member of the middle class electronic fiat payments fail miserably especially across international borders.

By the way buying drugs on the dark markets involves payments to the 0.0001% so that is not the primary application of crypto.

Well for one they won't be able to create funds out of thin air as they do now and for another it will cut down on the amount of bankers. Well thats off the top of my head.



What a retarded statement, do you know it's a seizeable offense to drive around with a "sizable" amount of funds without proof of where you got it and where you are going to spend it? BTW where is it defined what a "sizable" amount is??? I for one carry thousands all the time and that is for legitimate purposes. Thousands of people have been looted by Highway Bandits (dressed as cops) that work for TPTB, try using google it works you know.

This right here mirrors what i have been saying all along yet when i say it i am a Troll FUD'ing with lies.  ::)

People read what their own dev's / supporters and whale sugar daddy's are saying.
You will notice they are taking turns repeating ole evil Spoetnik word for word.
Should i neg them for lying too ?

So ? Should i decimate this comment he made and shred it to pieces or should i just let stand as blatantly fucking stupid ?
I mean shit, say the word and i will tear him a new one over that  ;D  8)

PS:
I would start with the fact this was a price speculation topic by the looks of it  ;)
Considering i just quoted a dev who submitted code to Monero claiming Monero has done fuck all ROFL

Well, first of all, to answer your question, no, I never did so, and I wouldn't see any reason to do so.  Because the only reason to do so for me would be to buy something from that person, and strictly legally, I'm not allowed to buy anything from anyone if that person is not a registered business.  There is some *tolerance* for small amounts like on sunday-type second-hand markets, but strictly speaking it is not legal.  You are only supposed to buy stuff from registered businesses, and pay VAT on it (unless there's a legal exception).   You're not supposed to do a donation that is not registered either.  Yes, there is some *tolerance* for small amounts.  But normally you should report it, because the receiver should put it in its income tax declaration.   If you are a registered business, you are legally OBLIGED to possess a bank account attached to your professional activities.  So for strictly legal stuff, there's in fact no possibility to "send 50 dollars to someone that has no bank account" if it is to buy something.   And no, I donate nothing to anybody abroad, why would I ?

Strictly legally, I'm not supposed to buy anything abroad from a country that has no bilateral trade agreement with the country I live in, and most of the time, in that case, similar rules apply: the foreign business must be a registered business, and the payment must be through a bank transfer of some kind.

So most of the time "sending money to someone abroad who doesn't have a bank account" is illegal (but tolerated for small amounts).

The second point is: hell, it is much easier to set up a state bank with just a bank account for these people than doing crypto, isn't it ?  How do these people without an account pay their income tax ? 


In very much most of these cases, these payments are illegal, even if tolerated for small amounts.

But next: what on earth would someone not even having a bank account, do with crypto ?  Don't you think that the infrastructure to give these people fiat bank accounts is way way easier to set up than to have them have a generalized use of crypto ?  There's a huge banking opportunity in these places.  If banks are not interested, then that's mostly because it is probably legally too much of a hassle, but IF it is legally too much of a hassle, that means that most things that people would do with crypto, would probably be illegal.  Otherwise, setting up a bank for these people would be easy too, and then, why is no bank doing so ?


To me, dark markets are not necessarily about drugs, but about any economic relationship that wants to escape taxing or regulation.  Like the 50 dollars mentioned above.  I would rather call them "free markets".

This isn't true, actually.  You're thinking of sound money theory, but that is in fact a flawed idea, because it makes a premise that isn't true with crypto: that the "sound money" has at the same time, the monopoly status of money.  If a type of money is just having one market share of the "money market", then the sound money doctrine is broken, because then "shrinking market share" is identical to "money printing".

If the crypto market has continuous creation of new crypto, and if those new coins eat away from the market share of the established crypto, then this IS a from of "new money printing".  Another form of money printing is hard forking (which is in fact nothing else but a specific case of new coin creation).

So no, the "sound money doctrine" has no meaning in a free money market with new coin creation, hard forking and so on.

But the second point is of course even more important.  If the state considers that it needs to print more money, then it will make a legal system in which this is of course possible.  In as much as a crypto is law-abiding, the state will of course find a way to do the same thing with crypto.  There are different ways.  One way can be a systematic confiscation of a percentage of all crypto.  They will want to own all secret keys of all "legal" crypto wallets in the end, so they can easily take a part of every wallet.  As such, they don't break the amount of coin, but just "take them back".
They can impose THEIR crypto: the only allowed crypto could be "state minted crypto" where "mining/minting" by any other entity but a state-approved entity is considered counterfeiting (or is made cryptographically impossible as they have a golden key).
Look at gold: the state couldn't "print gold" either, but they found ways around it, rendered monetary gold possession illegal and so on.  Legal crypto can only go the same way.

And concerning 'bankers', I wouldn't be surprised if in the end, the only legal crypto would be some bank-owned crypto.  In that case, crypto has become fully legal fiat, with the bankers being the state-allowed officers keeping the secret keys and so on, and the customer just doing what he's doing now: contacting his bank.

Anything is possible, nite. :)

1 guy admits there is a problem and 99.99% go silent.
Since there is a serious problem with coin adoption uhhhhh why is no one talking about it ?
Is it because of the Monero retards chanting "lies" ?
It wasn't a lie when the FBI guy said they would be or have been looking into Monero.
There is nothing to deny or play dumb about.

The battle has already begun and all of you are losing with your head in the sand.

Don't like the ole govt and paying taxes ?
What are you gonna do when North Korea wants to jam it's flag up your ass ?
Who has them military jets and how were they paid for ?

I'm just gonna kick back and watch it unfold  8)

Go buy more Monero anon coins at Polo with your picture ID Investards.. that'll teach them !
When your done that head over to fluffpony's *mostly* secure Gambling site for "no laws" gambling.
Don't forget to hide your revenue from the IRS / REV-CAN etc when tax time comes..
Which is right now in Canada ;)

Don't worry you don't have to pay anything.. just print out and tack onto your tax return Dino's speech about how he doesn't like laws or paying taxes and how Infowars says the govt is corrupt & shit.

If all else fails just chant FUD and buy moar cheap coinz nom nom nom

Because you know.. Monero's "rise & rise"  ;D

Who built them ?   Private companies, right ?  What would stop people *that want to* to pay for them on a voluntary basis ?  If you are afraid that Kim comes to shove his flag up to your ass, you're free to join such an association.  And if not, you shouldn't contribute.  If, by doing so, you also protect my ass for free, that's a choice you'll have to make.  Pay voluntarily for it, and give me also a free lunch, or don't pay for it, and run the risk.

There's absolutely no need for any compulsory contribution to anything.  If you want it, organize it and pay for it.  If you don't want it, don't bother, but don't complain.  If you pay for it, and others profit from it, that's their good right.  Up to you.

People read what they are interested in. And then since they know they also start to write about it and teach others. It is that simple. I dont talk about coins or algorithms or whatever that i have no ideas of.  I have ideas of few coins and of few projects and i write about them here. I would love to know all coins that are discuses on this forum, but would need days with 1000 hours for that.




Everyone need to pay taxes. Maybe in USA they might cancel that since got country president that claims he dont pay them.

with crypto there will still be taxes. They will just need to be restructured. It is hard to believe you spend so much time here on this forum and had not come to some thread teaching you this.

Country needs taxes to work. There cant be a country without taxes. Taxes will always exist. But will not be as now. Now work is heavily taxed. I doubt this will be in future. About asset, most taxes will be on asset that cant be moved. that is easiest to do. Also on spending. I am not specialist in this matter, but I am not worried that  governments will not find perfect solutions for this.

Crypto will bring so much new GDP that they will be more that happy to redistribute. This redistribution will be sort of sweet for them.

People read what they are interested in and what Monero idiots did not delete .
Monero is the king here of walled garden bullying censorship period.

Dino you need to work on staying on topic as i have alluded to countless times.
I grow tired of debating on whether or not you have to follow law..
Care to say something about Monero or launch into more diversions ?
After all this topic is about Monero and not the "corrupt govt" isn't it ?

Want people to think you are smart here ?
Stay on topic.. rule #1

We're getting off-topic, but the idea that a group of people cannot get organized and live together if there no compulsory robbery system like taxes, is nothing else but millennia-long indoctrination.  Taxes are not needed to make the state function, the state is there to make the taxes function.

There's in fact a whole other "public finance" system that is possible: pay for those "public services" that you need and want (including police protection).  And another principle could hold.  Every economy is ultimately resource-limited, and the ultimate resource is natural resources and land.  These resources shouldn't be "property".  They shouldn't be allowed to be part of "ownership".   Nature and land belongs to all of us.  Of course, one needs land and natural resources to do production (and to live somewhere), but instead of granting property rights, one could just grant leasing rights in a public offering.  All land and natural resources are leased to the most-offering, and the payment of this rent replaces taxes.  You cannot be a land owner.  You can only lease land.  You cannot own natural resources.  You can only lease them.  And the rent you pay is what finances public spending.  Ideally, this spending shouldn't go to any government, but directly to the people, as a form of base income.  There is no clogging up of resources or land, and the real estate market would converge to its utility price and not become a collectible and monetary resource which it is now, because of course, real estate gets lost from its owner when the land on which it stands, goes back into the public bin for a next leasing cycle. 

So, compulsory taxes are not a necessity. 

Indeed I cannot agree more because a decentralized currency is what makes crypto stand out and if it starts being controlled by govt.and hence centralized then actually the main feature of crypto will die. I think its cool to grow but within the limits. :)

Yeah ?
And how does that apply to Monero (The Topic)
Have i not been over this already ?
More diversions ?

You guys are bending over backwards creating a diversion here and also by creating more topics on Dash to bump and i know the public will see straight though this shallow silly little game.

When Monero idiots are confronted with tough questions that is what they do here.. as always.

Monero is one of the more successful crypto coins implementing anonymity as a core feature.  If you are going to be outside of the law, you better have some anon tech.  And if you are going to be "inside the law" and law abiding, you don't need crypto: fiat is better.  What is outright dangerous, is to be outside the law with a transparent crypto.  What is outright meaningless, is to be a law-abiding crypto.  So the only MEANINGFUL crypto is anon crypto.  Maybe "crypto outside the law" is a failure, but then ALL OF CRYPTO is a failure, because crypto has no meaning "inside the law".  It is a ridiculous concept, that is just as ridiculous as "fire arms that cannot shoot".  Maybe owning fire arms is a failure, and then fire arms as a whole are a failure.  But in any case, owning non-shooting fire arms is ridiculous.  IF you consider fire arms, they should be able to shoot.  IF you consider crypto, it should be anonymous.

That's the relationship with the subject.

I would like to add something.  When I say that crypto has no meaning inside the law, I do not mean that crypto's goal or sense is exclusively in "criminal affairs".   I say this because the law is a power tool of the (deep) state, and the state's nature is extortion.  As such, the law is a tool for extortion.  Now, the basis of state extortion is to extort on every economic interaction.   They haven't succeeded in extorting individual pleasure yet, but every economic interaction is subject to extortion, which is the basis principle of the (deep) state, who lives off what it takes away from its people.  The "blood" that makes economic interaction on any significant scale possible, is money.  A state who doesn't control the money flows, loses a significant part of its ability to extort.  As such, this is something that a (deep) state cannot allow, and will have to use its laws to control it.  The only money that can be legal, is money of which the (deep) state controls the flows.  So in as much as crypto can be law abiding, it must be controlled by the (deep) state.  At any moment, the state must be able to cut its flows, to confiscate it, to re-direct its flows.  But then it is meaningless as a crypto.

See? You and all the other shill's just did it again.

You say it's successful because you say it's successful.

You know for people who THINK you are awfully smart you sure post a LOT of dumb shit here all year round.
Why not say i HOPE it will be successful or i THINK it will be successful one day ?
Because News Flash.. it's not.

And if you guys dare say the price to me one more time i am going to lose my shit  >:(
Dino you just finished telling us all about the Greater Fools game.. exactly !
Hence price means fuck all and you KNOW IT !

And once again.. this is what pisses me off.
There is no Rise and i highly doubt there will another rise (as per topic title)
All of you have sweet fuck all here.
Even the people who support ANON coins know there will be more trouble ahead and the odds are sketchy at best.

Dino you keep trouncing around this concept that a crypto coin SHOULD be anon right ?
Well..
Think of it this way.. the entire system is contingent on ANON being a success.

security ? and adoption ?

I have addressed the security lots ..i have an old topic here called [FACT] Anon coins will never work ! (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=853767.0)
And take a wild guess what i said on it ?


Hmm who's that ? And why did that guys team of shill's argue with me on my topic then ?
Oh and across the forum for two years running ?
Seems they do in fact agree with me contrary to their incessant arguing and calling me a troll etc.

But i digress..
We're talking about success ?
Ok then let's carry on ;)

Adoption has to be the key right ? Or it's not a currency.
I HAVE already touched on my next point previously on this topic but let me see if i can REALLY hammer it home for you all.

ANON tech is mandatory ?
Ok let me play along then.. let's say it is..
Well then, is it adopted and USED yet ?
NO !
The Monero shill's here down played their DM coin involvement after it was pointed out it was looking bad.
They went on to claim it was *ONLY* used at 3% of the Dark Markets.
SO ? Get it ?
You can not claim it's a success for that reason then either because it's not used on DM's :D

So what is left ?

0

I also previously alluded to the fact that it seems to me that the Monero shill's are putting all their eggs in one basket claiming ANON tech is the big meal ticket.
If that is the case then i said you face a barrier.. the law !
Then i mentioned public perception and the current existing financial structure as a barrier let alone law makers and enforcers themselves.

The existing Financial machine around the world is not going to link up with and support Monero.
It's just not happening and why is because of LAW.. never mind DM reputation etc.
And never mind implementing sketchy forum code made by kids onto world wide financial systems that need to be battle hardened tested and secure ..see my above fluffypony comment ;)

Further more they would have to essentially be the lapdog for Risto and his giant cheap bags he got.
They would have to buy his bags at some point to use the coin etc.
And then would have to follow what ever the Monero idiots say and do or TAKE IT OVER.

You think a big bank wants to have a major partnership with Risto's estimated half million doll bags he's holding ?
Think of it this way why did the Jaxx wallet dev quit Monero support ?
Because the Monero dev's randomly decided to break the system on him forcing him to rewrite all his code.
And he didn't want to do that.
In other words the coin Monero is in fact centrally controlled by Risto and his minions here.
And a bank partnership would be linked to that as the bank leaders around the globe playing second fiddle to King Risto and his paid employee fluffypony & friends and what ever whims he has at the moment (which has proven to be problematic see the Monero MEW topic)

You REALLY want to get into this guys ?
You REALLY want to parade around chanting Monero success ?
Fine.. then eat up the FUD hard.  ;D
You deserve it because you are playing dumb (or are) and selling a scheme presented in a decetful way here.

Security is presented as bullet proof contrary to fluffypony''s earlier comment.
Even though the simple fact is if it was exploited the entire system would fall apart at once.
Once one transaction is exposed every transaction ever made would be..
Every DM user all at once would be vulnerable in 1 hack incident.
But..
They present this coin as bullet proof and make sure to shill on hard 24/7 crying FUD to any criticism.
A post like this by toknormal for example will of course get trolled by them rather than addressing the concerns or admitting problems etc..
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg17896089#msg17896089

..almost done  ;)

Monero shills are trying to paint a deceitful picture.
They are doing so because it's in their financial interest.
Which is why King Risto bragged on Poloniex about making another forum game that needed donated user funds which was never accounted for and how he laughed at me because he claimed he made thousands on the previous one.
It's why they have a gambling site.. to turn a business profit.
It's why the shill's deem Monero a success not stop harping that Monero's price is good.
Their true motivations are not altruistic and honest ..they are greedy and deceitful.
Honest people behave honestly.. it's really that simple.

Like analogies ?
A firearm is used as such as the inventor intended.. Monero is not.

One last point..
In order for a currency to be validated by the worlds major 1st world govt's it has to be bail-out-able.
Yeah i just made up that word ;)
Would the govt of the USA bail out a Monero system in a recession like that have and will again in the future with FIAT ?
No fucking chance.. so it would mean they won't let it slide into the existing financial structure.
Even if they WANTED to support Monero they can not.. because it was made by design to evade AML law.
Which would mean they have to allow terrorism financing and money laundering etc just to bend the rules for Monero.. not happening.

You are visibly logically impaired.  I don't say that it is successful.  I say that if ever a crypto is to be successful, it has to be outside the law, and in order to be successful outside the law, certain aspects like anonymity are needed.   Logically, this doesn't mean that crypto is successful or that monero is successful.  It only implies that if crypto doesn't include anon tech, it cannot be successful.

(it can rise in price, but it cannot be successful as a crypto: it has to become a form of fiat in that case).


Of course not.  The price doesn't mean anything. The price of all crypto is at least 2 orders of magnitude too high.  If not more.


Yes.


Then crypto will not work, that's all I'm saying.  Crypto without anon is like guns that cannot shoot.


Of course not.  Adoption is not needed.  In principle, a crypto can work if two people use it.  Of course, adoption is nice, because it opens up the economic possibilities.  The more an economy is large, the more possibilities for economic interaction there are.  But wide adoption is optional.  If adoption implies denying the fundamentals, then adoption is not only not needed, it is even a bad idea.


The problem is that DM are only a niche, namely mostly unhealthy stuff like drugs and so.  But they are a nice test bed for the robustness of their anon systems.  The idea is to become a coin of all underground economy.  But of course not for the law abiding economy.  That would be silly.  In the law-abiding economy, you should use fiat, and nothing else.


All economic interaction that wants to be free of state interference.  


But if the law is the barrier, only fiat can work.  Only fiat can be in agreement with the law.  There's no reason for crypto within the law.  It is a silly idea.


The existing financial machine around the world will only work with fiat.  Crypto will only part of that in as much as crypto has become fiat.  There will be a period where it will seem that crypto can thrive with big finance, but sooner or later, all crypto that does so will become fiat.  Exchanges will become institutionalised, wallets will be state-owned, mining will be state-owned and protocols will be state-dictated.  Give it 10 or 20 years.


Crypto's goal is to do without that world wide financial system.  If you want to be part of it, you should use fiat.

There's no room for non-fiatized crypto.  They will do as they did with gold.  First, they let greater-fool gamblers pump their value in it, and when it is big enough, they will simply confiscate it and fiatise it.  With the Law.


And that's good, because that's not what crypto is for.  If you want to have a practical way of handling legally complying payments, use fiat.  It is much better at it.



Monero being an open source project, anybody can fork it and do with it what he/she wants.  Like with bitcoin.  Everybody can fork bitcoin.  If nobody does, that is that nobody really wants to.  In fact, what happens to monero doesn't matter, does it.  You only use it to sell goods, obtain it, and then to buy other goods with it.   The day that you don't like monero any more, you can use an alternative to do so, no ?  The day you don't like Openoffice, you can use Libreoffice, no ?


How is that ?  If tomorrow, I post my secret key of a monero address, all monero transactions would be deanonymised ???


How's that ?  First of all, most fire arms are probably not used as the inventor intended.  If I buy a gun to kill my mother in law, that's probably not the intention of the guy who designed the gun maybe 50 years ago.  Second, I would think that monero is used as intended, as a tool to transact tokens in a non-transparent way.


This is exactly why no crypto can ever be integrated with the law, unless the government mines it, changes its protocol at will, can confiscate any possession, can reverse any transaction and will prohibit non-governmental mining (called counterfeiting).   And hence, why legal crypto is ridiculous.


That is exactly the (sole) aim of a cryptocurrency.  Not being able to be integrated in the existing financial structure.  All the rest is called fiat.


If you cannot finance terrorism with it, it cannot be a crypto.  Because if a crypto stands for unstoppable payments, it must be possible to finance terrorism with it.  If for some reason, you can't, it means that that crypto is not living up to its sole goal of economical freedom.