Bitcoin Forum

Preorder is now closed. Currently (11th June) we have some stock available for immediate sale.


With a background that we sold more or less every CM1 in stock we are looking at building a reasonable amount more of these with a short lead time - 2-6 weeks delivery. We already have stock of long lead time items like heatsinks which allow us up to build 375 boards. The only thing we are short of for these numbers are the actual FPGAs. We do have some FPGAs already in stock and some more on order already but would have to acquire more for larger quantities of orders. We are talking to our suppliers to see what we can acquire of these to suit these timelines and that may be the limit of what we can build.

So if you are interested in getting CM1 boards within the next 6 weeks you need to sign to our preorder. Customers that we are already talking with will get a place at the head of the queue if they tell us want to do this under the financial terms below.

As the market is very changeable we are going to do this differently to the last pre-order. The first major difference is that we will ask for a deposit of 1/3 of the single unit price (before tax) - GBP £200 / USD $320 / 240€. This will be non-refundable unless we fail to meet your promised delivery and is to cover costs we will have in starting you order. The promise date will be given before you give us the deposit and we will start to sort these out next week after the public holidays we have here today and Monday.

We will accept Bitcoins for part or all of a purchase. The actual sale will be actually in one of our supported currencies GBP, USD or Euros and in any refund situation the refund will be in one of these currencies at the nominal value shown on your invoice. The acceptance of Bitcoins is a service that we will offer our customers on this understanding that the actual sale is in those supported currencies. We will immediately covert Bitcoins received into a flat currency of our choice and this is because all of our costs are in one of supported flat currencies.

The Bitcoin rate offered will be at our sole discretion and will be only for the day that a coin transfer takes place. So if you get a number one day you can't use that on another day. You must ask again on the day you give us coins. Our coin rate will be based low to average price at MTgox but we will add approximately 15% to cover short term shift risk and conversion costs.

We won't offer credit or debit card payments due to problems with very small numbers of customers doing chargebacks having received goods. Sorry but we don't weant the admin and losses of chargebacks.

We will offer PayPal but only to customers with fully eligible seller cover. So if you have not done all the security things they want do them now if you want to use this payment mechanism. We will also surcharge PayPal payments by 4% which is our PayPal cost to process money. This is not a profit centre for us merely covering actuial costs and to put bank transfers on a level playing field financially.

For our Euro customers our bank account works with 80-90% of SEPA transfers. There are obviously some banks looking looking for an excuse not to offer SEPA.

Pricing will be as the table on http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/cairnsmore/cairnsmore1.html. Euro pricing is 1.2X GBP. EU countries there will be VAT at 20% on top of these prices unless you are a VAT registered company and we can verify your registration.

Ok so if you want to go ahead on a pre-order send us an email on preorder2 AT enterpoint.co.uk. Response should come next week once we know more on FPGA delivery.





 

hello.
Interested in 20 boards.
I'm from Estonia. How much will the final price and delivery for me.
when I can really obtain them, if paid within one week.
I need an accurate answer + - a week.
To order I need full prepayment or part?
Thanks in advance.

what is the estimate speed of hashing of one cairnsmore1?

what s happened to cairnsmore2?

I was excited about this until I saw that pricing hasn't changed..  :(

Can you direct this to preorder email account so that the team see it. We will need a full address to calculate carriage.

We are asking for a deposit on this batch of GBP £200 / USD 320€ / 240€ per unit ordered.

Cost base has not changed for this and if anything it is more expensive for us to make as we are looking at a batch that is a tiny fraction of the size of the first built.

Grade-a which what we are talking about is 760-880 MH/s. There may also be grade-b boards after we have built the batch and we would expect 10% of boards to come out as grade-b based on previous experience. We will adjust the build numbers to account for that so that we get enough grade-a.

For Cairnsmore2 see other thread but generally we are using that as a testbed. It may or not appear as a product and we have not decided that yet. Given the huge build schedules we already have for other products in April and May it is unlikely to be available before July even if we do decide to launch it as a product.

sent you pm .

That 10% number is really funny.  It reminds me of when I told you that 10% of my boards were sub-par and you insisted that nobody else was having problems and I must be doing something wrong.

Anyway, rising bitcoin prices heal all wounds.  I love you John.  You are a shining light of professionalism in contrast to certain other hardware vendors in the Bitcoin world.

By the way I have an auction for half a dozen of those 'b' grade boards.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=159052.0
Winning bids are in the 3 BTC range today.

And I will sell domestically up to a dozen boards for 7 BTC plus shipping and escrow.

Can I remind everone that if you want pre-orders email on preorder2 AT enterpoint.co.uk. We are getting emails on other addresses and also PMs are likely to get missed if we are not careful here.

Just to say to everyone asking that we won't have any answers on delivery until at least tomorrow and maybe later in the week if we are unlucky. Like many places it is a public holiday today. Many people also take the entire week as holiday so getting answers may be slower as a result of that.

Could you briefly explain what is needed to use these? Do the "kits" come complete as a Quad kit? Do pillars and power jumpers need to be ordered as well? I am not familiar with the way these interface once they are up and running. Is it just a USB cable to any capable computer that can mine?
I assume from the photos the only other thing that would be needed is a power supply?
Thanks

yohan,

a suggestion:

why not try to focuse on cairnsmore2 as the cairnsmore1 are little be outdated because of the asic?

it would be better for everyone to get asic s hashing power,and have to deal with a company wich have a track record of seriousness

there is many people out there who are ready to help you if there is anything wich is not permitting you to deliver cairnsmore2 quickly

in my opinion,people who will buy cairnsmore1 will regret their purchases sooner than later.

just some thoughts

Yes it quad FPGA fitted. We have dropped single and dual version options some time ago as basically we had no demand. USB lead comes with unit and bitstreams are loaded so you should just need to plug in and configure your choice of mining software.

Pillars and power jumpers and other accessories are only needed generally if you are using multiple boards.

Different resources is the answer and CM2 is still only a development project at the moment. CM1 we can build quickly and all the infrastructure to support a build is available now. Also CM3 at the moment is our next preferred potential customer release at the moment and CM2 may stay as it is merely a development platform. There is a lot of work to be done before we could ship anything and the design team are already already extremely loaded with more important things in April, May and maybe June. So promising CM2/3 deliveries in the short term isn't going to happen. If we happen to find some time and resources well yes it might come quicker but unlike others we won't promise it until we are sure.

I will also say that he ASIC competitors already launched, with public pricing, look like they may have initially set pricing too low on ASIC products and will probably increase prices to stay in business assuming they last that long of course. There are obviously some technical issues as well to be resolved. Based on that and a few other things our prediction is the network will probably stay in the 100-500 TH/s range this year and in that range we believe for most customers CM1 will remain profitable for some time to come. This board also has the capability to do Litecoin and some customers are looking at that. With the very high Bitcoin value currently it is very likely that Litecoin will be needed to fill in the gaps at lower value transactions. We need the Bitcoin equivalent of the silver coins and pennies and Bitcoin doesn't look at it will have the capability on it's own. 

Bullshit.

Or, I could be more polite and state it as "I believe you are mistaken".

Please support your statement.

Indeed.  For someone who failed to ship a bitcoin bitstream you are awfully confident it will work for Litecoin.

So much for professionalism from Enterpoint.

Maybe someone can educate me: at $960 for 760-880 MH/s, wouldn't one be better off by buying 7970s?

Is this worth it because of lower power consumption?

It could be.  At full power these boards only draw 45 watts.  And you can drive them with a very low watt controller.  A 7970 is going to require at least 300 watts with a system.

So these board will be cost effective a 6-7 times higher difficulty than the graphics card.  Depending on the shape of the difficulty curve between those 2 points, and the exchange rate, you could do very well.  Or painfully badly.  It's a tough call.

It was a lot harder decision at $7 bitcoin and BFL promising ASICS in 2 months.

That said, I had a buyer for 20 boards drop out on me, so I still have a few for sale for BTC only

Based on current difficulty, 1 month breakeven price for a Cairnsmore board is 175 USD -  not considering any further difficulty increase within this 1 month. If anyone is paying more than that, good luck recovering money in any reasonable time period.

Only good for a hobby at this price, unfortunately.

It is very high risk with ASIC shipment. People can take risk with top of the line equipment, this is no longer so.

People actually said this 9 months ago and many people didn't buy a CM1 for that reason. Anyone that did has made a nice profit. Obviously the game has changed a lot with exchange rates going up a lot and you can speculate if that rise will contine or even collapse. At the moment we are just responding to demand. If people want CM1 we will try and make them.

How certain are you these will work with Litecoin?

Doesn't Litecoin mining require a signifcant amount of ram as well?
Correct me if i'm wrong.

Unless you know of a bitstream you can flash to one of these devices *now* for Litecoin you shouldn't make a purchase decision based on assuming it *might* be able to in the future.

Just my two cents worth. (About 0.0002 BTC.)

If you think BTC is the only option for an FPGA you might be missing the alt-coin boat.

http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/9817/dustcoin.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/607/dustcoin.png/)

Data brought to you by DUSTCOIN.COM (http://=http://dustcoin.com/mining)

What is being questioned is not the value of "the alt-coin boat".

Although that might be questionable. :)

But the statements about mining 'alt-coins' with CM1 hardware.

Made right alongside statements about Bitcoins being 'incapable' of 'small' valuation usage.

-- edit

I've actually been, mostly, satisfied with my purchase of a couple of CM1's which were delivered last Fall.

But I highly disapprove of dubious / unsupported statements. (And, frankly, I expect better of "yohan".)

So, yeah, I "disapprove" of a *lot* that I read on bitcointalk.org.   :D

First to say I don't think we ever promised a timeline on doing a Litecoin implementation to run on CM1 so no one should base decisions on that. We think it is possible but that is a long way from a stating an actual performance level. At the worst case memory could be accessed vis USB or up/down connections but these may not be good enough for decent Litecoin mining performance and work needs to be done on that to understand the engineering requirement. We probably won't look at Litecoin oursleves for 2-3 months based on our existing design commitments.

Anyway the purpose of this tread is inform interested parties on our progress of make CM1 available to all that want it for whatever reason not to deviate into sidelines. There are other threads for that. We are making progress on working out what we can do in the 2-6 week target timeframe and response to the large number of emails we have to deal with will come. Please be patient on this front as more effort is going into getting the answers than answering emails.

FRC, PPC and TRC all likely as profitable or more profitable using an FPGA... things to ponder. Litecoin aside there are alternatives to BTC. Mind you there will still be months of use in BTC if prices keep going up even if you mine at a loss and keep the coin in a few years you'd make back the cost of the unit easily.

Ok time for an update.

We are collating the pre-orders and will start to allocate boards tomorrow. We have already got some FPGAs in but the process of ensuring that we have enough FPGAs for the potential orders is still ongoing. However we can now start to contact some of you to confirm the pre-order, delivery, and take your deposits and that will start tomorrow. It is going to take us at least a few days to get through the entire list of people wanting boards and that is partially dependent on our FPGA deliveries being confirmed as well. So do have some patience whilst we work through all of this.

We are going to temporarily close the preorder tomorrow as we are getting close to maximum numbers we can handle short term. Depending on deposit collection it may re-open in a few days. Anyone on the pre-order should get an indication of possible delivery in the next few days as we work through and confirm orders so do check you spam boxes just in case that email ends up in there.

Can you elaborate on that, AFAIK ltc requires some amount of ram to be mined. Cairnsmore1 does not have built in memory or any ddr3 capable slot.

There are a few possibilities and none will be as good as some of our other products with better memory interfaces. There is also a question of how much memory is actually required. I have seen a wide range of numbers from people in this forum so that is something to established.

Possibility1

CM1 contains logic only and works with a host processor that has software and memory. Bandwidth of USB will be a major limit.

Possibility2

1,2, or 3 FPGAs on CM1 are used as memory. We get about 700KB per FPGA when used as memory.

Possibility3

The up/down interface is used to support a custom memory board. There are 18 wires available to make this connection which are never going to compete with a direct DDR3 interface but the add-on board could be a very large memory size. 100GB would be possible but maybe not cheap.

Outside of these possibilites there are further hybrids of these ideas e.g. use one FPGA as a cache with larger memory as add on board.

Bear in mind the original Litecoin point was made in a different tread in the context of people thinking ASIC would kill CM1 Bitcoin mining profitability and this was something else to do with these boards it is never going to be the best solution possible. Almost any FPGA board will have Litecoin capability but not necessarily huge performance.

If you want Litecoin miner we probably already have better boards already in the product range for this purpose although prices may scare you as they never priced/designed for this market. They just happen to be possible better fits to the requirement. So far all of this conjecture. Most people have looked at what software does to do this processing and there may be entirely better ways in a FPGA than just converting a software function into FPGA hardware functions. Such radical thinking actually needs to be done by someone who knows FPGAs very well and probably software pretty well too so it is not going to be a simple or quick task to do this sort of analysis/design quickly. I am not going to promise any timelines but it is one task we are hoping to get some time on. However our design team are very loaded in the 2-3 month span and probably no way that will happen here in the short term.

I think that the real memory requirement would be in range of 500Mb-1Gb based on what gpus use.

With LTC diff increase 1G will not be enough very soon :)

Does anyone know what size the DC plug is for the CM1? Is it 2.5 or 2.1mm?

2.5mm.

Per there documentation, there are the following power connectors:

Thanks tbd.

Please let me know when stocks are available.

Hello, can you specify: "If you want Litecoin miner we probably already have better boards already in the product range for this purpose" ? I´m interested in price of this product and possible hashrate if you know it (even i know that your product is not "litecoinminer" like CM is for BTC, I´m just curious about it :-) )
thanks

Short update. We have sent out emails with timing and asking for deposits to those who were on tne list before we put it on hold. Once we have the response to that sorted out we will at opening the preorder again. There was the odd bounce back from full mails boxes so do check them.

We are over-busy this week launching a new product into manufacture and before you ask it isn't for bitcoin. Consequently there is a large stack of emails to catch up on and that will take a few days to catch up on these. So we are not ignoring you it just a question of hours in the day. Having just done 24hr working day I won't be doing too much more today.   

Merely FYI, here's the active thread current CM1 owners are using:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78239.2440 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78239.2440)

We will be trying to catch on the emails this weekend going maybe into Monday/Tuesday so do bear with us. Unseen by all outside of Enterpoint things are happening on the preorder build and we know more every day of how it will pan out on the time lines.

Everyone should have had a response now to their preorder enquiry and if you think you have been missing do check your spam box and if nothing is there send us another email.

Preorder is open again for further orders.

Everyone that has contacted us should now have been offered a shipping promise. The assembly line is now running and the first orders should start getting dispatched in 1-2 weeks time. To make life more simple for us in May we will probably close the preorder at the end of April and anything ordered after then may have longer lead time.

Yohan,

Given my preorder paperwork says 2/6weeks how is it going, just curious.

Also wondering which existing product you think litecoin would be suited to.

dod

on the same boat, hope it will be soon.)

I am interested in the pre-order how to get on the lists? thanks

Dan

Currently we believe we are on schedule for everyone on the list. First units of this batch have now reached our burn-in test and those will start to ship out shortly. Please check your spam boxes regularly until you get the request for final payment.

What's the turnaround if I order today? Andy

If you are very quick then we can sneek you onto the preorder. We have not finished on component ordering so whilst that isn't complete we can handle a few more orders. Currently shipping promise is dropping to 5 weeks and may go down a little more but that has limitations in terms that once we reach a certain level of orders our stock of certain componenrts run out and we then have component lead times will force out our promise dates.

Yep, sent pm, give me info for where to send the money :)

Andy

most likely want to email the preorder address at enterpoint, its up the thread.

I have empty usb ports hungry for fpga goodness....2/6 weeks is sooo long when your waiting lol

Done this ;)

For those of you outside the UK it is a public holiday here on Monday. Office will be closed and limited email responses as a result.

General update. Some early preorders shipped last week and that will step up a little this week. We expect our larger order of FPGAs to arrive with us late next week and that will kick off the main part of this preorder build. That should translate in larger numbers of boards shipping about the last week of May going into the first week of June so do watch out for final payment requests about then.

im interested!! it looks better than the lancelot :(

Interested, any updates in the last two weeks?

Update -We are about 1/3 of the way through the preorders now. There won't be massive numbers shipped this week but we should pick up the pace about the middle of next week with most remaining orders shipping in the first half of June.

It is a public holiday next Monday so no shipping and limited email coverage that day.

Boards are all up and running, thanks yohan for getting them out.

 ICA  0:                | 388.7M/366.8Mh/s | A: 6 R:0 HW:0 U:  2.82/m
 ICA  1:                | 389.1M/370.6Mh/s | A: 6 R:0 HW:0 U:  2.82/m
 ICA  2:                | 396.8M/381.6Mh/s | A: 9 R:0 HW:0 U:  4.23/m
 ICA  3:                | 392.5M/357.4Mh/s | A: 9 R:0 HW:0 U:  4.23/m
 ICA  4:                | 390.3M/366.0Mh/s | A:11 R:0 HW:0 U:  5.17/m
 ICA  5:                | 383.0M/366.5Mh/s | A: 5 R:0 HW:0 U:  2.35/m
 ICA  6:                | 388.9M/385.3Mh/s | A: 4 R:0 HW:0 U:  1.88/m
 ICA  7:                | 390.5M/369.3Mh/s | A: 2 R:0 HW:0 U:  0.94/m
 ICA  8:                | 392.0M/360.2Mh/s | A: 8 R:0 HW:0 U:  3.76/m
 ICA  9:                | 392.0M/366.4Mh/s | A: 4 R:0 HW:0 U:  1.88/m

How can I get the Mh to 400+ 220bitstream or will that fry them ?

They pull 15 amps from a variable psu set to 12.08v, is it preferable to run at 12v or 12.5v etc?

Now if only their bitcoin-support department would answer... Yohan?

Ok on Makomk you are ok to use 210. The Makomk 220 we don't cover under warranty although many people do run that. If you do try the 220 do watch the invalid count as that is the way you know it is going wrong and likely to burn out the chips. Hashvoodoo is ok to run to 220 as it can be throttled by the mining software to protect the chips.

If you are looking at power efficiency the faster Makomk bitstreams generally have a lower power efficiency for the hashing rate returned. It is something of a thermal runaway situation which is why you have to be very careful if you go beyond the 210 version.

On input it does not make a big difference between 12V, 12.08V or 12.5V. If you are using the phenoix or jack power input there will be a small saving at 12.5V on loss in the protection diode and a very small saving in wiring loss/drop. The switching supplies will usually run from voltages as low 7V to about 16V. I wouldn't ever go any higher than 16V as some components are rated not much above that and something around the nominal 12V is the recomended value to use.

Thanks for the fast reply, can you point me to the 210 stream?
what sort of increase should i expect on 210 from 200

Generally we are very loaded currently with the combination of a major non-bitcoin product launch (Mulldonoch3) and the on-going CM1 preorder. It's a finite resource and very stretched at the moment and will be that way for a couple more weeks until all of the preorders are all shipped. Even after that we can expect a further period of 6-8 weeks of being busy on Mulldonoch3 as we have a big program of things to do on that product before we hit the summer holiday season.

The result going fron 200 to 210 can vary a lot from board to board assuming even that no external factors like mining pool have an effect. Some boards will give the full 5% other boards will give you almost nothing with the number of invalids rising. In some occasional cases a 210 bitstream will return less than a 200 bitstream because of the number of invalids.

ok, I will stick with 200 as the addition of a timing command to cgminer has helped

 ICA  0:                | 399.6M/397.0Mh/s | A:71 R:0 HW:0 U: 3.47/m
 ICA  1:                | 399.3M/397.5Mh/s | A:57 R:0 HW:0 U: 2.79/m
 ICA  2:                | 399.1M/399.5Mh/s | A:70 R:0 HW:0 U: 3.42/m
 ICA  3:                | 399.4M/397.2Mh/s | A:48 R:0 HW:0 U: 2.35/m
 ICA  4:                | 398.8M/398.9Mh/s | A:50 R:0 HW:0 U: 2.44/m
 ICA  5:                | 398.9M/398.8Mh/s | A:68 R:0 HW:0 U: 3.32/m
 ICA  6:                | 399.0M/398.7Mh/s | A:35 R:0 HW:0 U: 1.71/m
 ICA  7:                | 399.3M/398.6Mh/s | A:54 R:0 HW:0 U: 2.64/m
 ICA  8:                | 399.6M/399.1Mh/s | A:48 R:0 HW:0 U: 2.35/m
 ICA  9:                | 399.2M/397.5Mh/s | A:64 R:0 HW:0 U: 3.13/m



thanks

I have two CN1. But it can not run on the mac. I want to sell them and buy another mining rig.

it can run on mac, but pm me your price in uk sterling

I haven't been contacted to finish paying... any update on when I need to do that and when my units might ship?

We should be contacting a few people tomorrow but the main drive on this will be next week. The majority of remain preorders should be asked for final payment by the end of next week maybe with a few trailing into the beginning of the week after.

Shipping wise most should go by the middle of June assuming final payments requests are paid promptly.

I'm still waiting for your mail...:)

Cheers...

Several hundred CM1s came off the SMT assembly line today and we have started final assembly and test of those now. These are enough to cover the remaining preorders. The first of this tranch will ship this week and I expect pretty much all of the remaining preorders should be ready to ship by sometime next week. We are aiming to request final payments between now and maybe Sunday so please watch out for our email asking what accessories you want if any. Prompt response will all us to get invoices out quickly and minimise delays in get CM1s shipped to you.

We are a little behind on the requests for final payment so don't worry if you have not seen yours yet. We were having a good run on final assembly and testing so we kept going and didn't do as much payment admin as planned.

Despite raising the efffective grade-a test level the yield has been excellent on this batch and we have had something better than 99.9% grade-a yield. For those of you either asking for extra boards, or if you asked after the preorder closed, we should have spare boards available.

Everyone that paid a preorder deposit should have now had an email at least asking what accessories they want and we are generating final invoices as fast as our admin system will allow. If you have not had that please check your spam box and contact us if you think you have been missed.

Later today we should start asking people that are on our waiting list (asked after we closed the formal preorder for new entry) if they want to go ahead on orders and subject to the stock, and payment received, those people should get their boards shipped this week or scheduled if that has been requested.

Anyone else that is interested in a Cairnsmore1 should contact us asap. The spare stock we have is limited and whilst we can build more that will probably be back into a 4-8 week lead time.

We expect to ship the last of the preorder today. If you think you have been missed now is the time to tell us. We do have some stock left that we built as contingency for grade-a yield. Most of it is grade-a and a small amount of grade-b. That stock is now open for general sales. contact us on our boardsales email if are interested.