Bitcoin Forum

THIS IS VERSION 1. FOR LATER VERSIONS SEE BELOW.

In order to avoid the confusion caused by fluctuations in BTC values, I thought it might be useful to compile a list of numismatic dollar premium estimates for known Casasciuss issues. In other words, the premium excluding the BTC value.  I have taken issue details from the  very helpful Spotcoin list (http://www.spotcoins.com/bitcoin/casascius). Comments/suggested valuations are all based on the coin still being funded. All comments/suggestions welcome.

Some general remarks. In numismatics, critical factors are: (1) condition (2) face value (as a broad rule, higher demoninations tend to command a higher premium) (3) scarcity (4) other features affecting desirability such as historical importance, errors, material (silver and gold more desirable). I have tried to apply these considerations in my guestimates below. One thing which I have not taken into account is funding date. First funded coins in any series may command a further premium.

Please feel free to rip into me and tell me that my suggested valuations are ridiculously low or high. That is the whole point of this thread: to try and get some sense via community input of where the premiums ought to be.



0.1 BTC Silver
2013
Funded 800
Redeemed 8
Active 792

Fairly scarce. At a guess I would say these should command something like a US$ 200 premium over the BTC content.

0.5 BTC Brass
2013
Funded 3055
Redeemed 139
Active 2916

Relatively common. US$ 150


0.5 BTC Silver, Series-2
2013
Funded 45
Redeemed 0
Active 45

Extremely rare. Must be be close to US$ 1,000 and perhaps more I would have thought.

0.5 BTC Silver, Series-3
2013
Funded 885
Redeemed 1
Active 884

Scarce. US$ 500.

1.0 BTC Brass, Series-1
2011
Funded 5993
Redeemed 892
Active 5101

Common but highly desirable because of the error. US$ 500 to US$ 1,000. This coins ought to be the easiest one to put a dollar premium on.

1.0 BTC Brass, Series-2 (2011)
2011
Funded 516
Redeemed 82
Active 434

Scarce but less desirable than the error issue. US$ 400-500 ?

1.0 BTC Brass, Series-2 (2012)
2012
Funded 6740
Redeemed 821
Active 5919

Common. US$ 300.

1.0 BTC Brass, Series-2 (2013)
2013
Funded 5407
Redeemed 297
Active 5110

Common. US$ 300.

1.0 BTC All-Silver
2013
Funded 1300
Redeemed 8
Active 1292

Scarce. US$750

1.0 BTC Silver with Gold Trim
2013
Funded 483
Redeemed 1
Active 482

Very scarce and desirable. US$ 1,000-US$ 1,500.

5 BTC, Series-1
2012
Funded 670
Redeemd 80
Active 590

Scarce. US$ 1,500.

5 BTC, Series-2
2012
Funded 572
Redeemed 123
Active 449

Scarce. US$ 1,500.


10 BTC, All-Silver
2012
Funded 250
Redeemed 35
Active 215

Rare. US$ 2,000

10 BTC, Silver with Gold Trim
2012
Funded 242
Redeemed 16
Active 226

Rare. US$ 2,000

25 BTC, Series-1
2011
Funded 338
Redeemed 132
Active 206

Rare. Hard to value the premium as the face value is already so high. Say US$ 5,000?

25 BTC, Series-2
2011
Funded 472
Redeemed 117
Active 355

Ditto. Rare. Hard to value the premium as the face value is already so high. Say US$ 5,000?


1000 BTC 1oz Gold
2012
Funded 5
Redeemed 2
Active 3

Impossible to value in the absence of any reported sales and in light of the very high face value.

There is no set premium. These premiums depend on numerous factors that include but are not limited to: supply/demand, if the coin is graded, coin grade, coin condition, PGP key availability, price of BTC and etc.
The point is that there is no fixed premium per coin and trying to document it won't really yield accurate results.

+1

...if anything it could end up with misleading information as there are lots of factors to consider.

I would buy half the coins in the list if i get them at that price over face value!

The market isn't dependent and they do not have any fix value on it!

+1

especially the 0.5 BTC Silver, Series-2  :-*

beatiful thread ... thanks for this information  ;)

wonder where are all the redeemed 10btc coins at i only seen one for sale

I know this information isn't going to be completely accurate since the market price of things can move fast, but it is still very helpful for a rough estimate. Thank you.

Not sure how best the thread should be edited, but please do insert some alternative suggested figures. I did wonder whether some of my estimates were on the low side !

Of course I agree. But the same is true for all numismatic coins. Even very rough ranges might be helpful to both buyers and sellers.

All corrections very welcome :-)

Corrections below:

I thought Goat sold his 1000BTC bar for 1M?

Furthermore, the premium for the 25 BTC, 10 BTC and 5 BTC should be higher I think.


Dont forget, date it what funded. A 2011 coin could be funded in 2013 making it just slightly less desirable opposed to a 2011 one.

VERSION 2

[/quote]

For example those 2011 error Coins. The mintage might be on the higher range but because bitcoin value was so low at that time those coins were not treated very well although they have the most historic value. So it is might be easy to find one of those coins but finding one in nearly mint conditions is difficult.

This explains the high premium for an Error Coin in good conditions. So stating a general premium for those coins ist pointless imho.

1M for 1000 BTC would be a negative premium!

Re. the 25BTC, I'm not sure that you could justify more than a US$ 5,000 premium. They are scarce but not extremely rare.  That said, if you can point to an auction .....

Not sure about the 10 and 5s so I'll leave it for the moment.

I agree that funding dates make some difference but as I said in the original post, I am disregarding that. It just gets too complicated!

 

I agree that condition will make a difference (like any coins). I did state a range to try to allow for that, but of course to do the job properly you would need to give estimates for each issue for all grades. But I'll edit the post to make it clear that the premiums assume good but not perfect condition and that pristine coins will command a higher premium. 

 

if i recall, that sale was in early 2014 when price was around $750/BTC

That's what I call a nice premium!  8) ;D

I was under the impression that the 25 BTC coin cost around 26-28 btc

I think that is too low. There was a recent (12-2016) sale of a redeemed 25 btc that was listed for 1.25BTC in his sales topic. So a non-redeemed should fetch a solid premium. But I think most of the sales of the 25 had to be done in a rush and people had no time to wait for a good offer, hence the 26-28BTC that some people have in mind.

Interesting but the numbers are quite a bit off, all you have to do is check the prices of what recently sold coins went for.

Yep definitely off the mark. I also don't agree in placing fiat values against physical cryptos. That suggests prices are more affected by the btc rates than they are

ALL PRICES INCLUDE FUNDED VALUE

These prices are total prices that I am providing based on very rough estimates on the current & past market. ALL COINS should be priced in BTC (excluding the 1000BTC gold)
All prices also vary based on condition & grade if provided which may change prices drastically depending on ANACS population reports and clarity.

0.1 BTC Silver
2013
Fairly scarce. At a guess I would say these should command something like a US$ 200 premium over the BTC content.
~0.4-0.6

0.5 BTC Brass
2013
Relatively common. US$ 150
~0.7-0.85

0.5 BTC Silver, Series-2
2013
Extremely rare. Must be be close to US$ 1,000 and perhaps more I would have thought.
Nubbins is the only one that I know that has these. His price is 20-25BTC

Correction: A public auction was made for 11.0BTC while the record sales are held by nubbins for 14 & 15
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1288178.msg13251279#msg13251279 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1288178.msg13251279#msg13251279)

0.5 BTC Silver, Series-3
2013
Scarce. US$ 500.
~0.9-1.1

1.0 BTC Brass, Series-1
2011
Common but highly desirable because of the error. US$ 500 to US$ 1,000. This coins ought to be the easiest one to put a dollar premium on.
~1.2-2.0

1.0 BTC Brass, Series-2 (2011)
2011
Scarce but less desirable than the error issue. US$ 400-500 ?

1.0 BTC Brass, Series-2 (2012)
2012
Common. US$ 300.

1.0 BTC Brass, Series-2 (2013)
2013
Common. US$ 300.
~0.2-0.35

1.0 BTC All-Silver
2013
Scarce. US$750
~2.25-2.75

1.0 BTC Silver with Gold Trim
2013
Very scarce and desirable. US$ 1,000-US$ 1,500.
~2.5-3.0

5 BTC, Series-1
2012
Scarce. US$ 1,500.
~6.0-8.0

5 BTC, Series-2
2012
Scarce. US$ 1,500.
~6.0-8.0

10 BTC, All-Silver
2012
Rare. US$ 2,000
~16.0-19.0

10 BTC, Silver with Gold Trim
2012
Rare. US$ 2,000
~16.0-19.0

25 BTC, Series-1
2011
Rare. Hard to value the premium as the face value is already so high. Say US$ 5,000?
~25.5-27.0

25 BTC, Series-2
2011
Ditto. Rare. Hard to value the premium as the face value is already so high. Say US$ 5,000?
~25.5-27.0

1000 BTC 1oz Gold
2012
Impossible to value in the absence of any reported sales and in light of the very high face value.
Only Known/rumored sale by Goat for $1M


All the numbers I provide are rough estimates on the market. It is highly recommended that someone proofread these numbers as I am unsure on bitnickels and 2011 brass.

Edit: Just minor edits to edits within edits.

I'll sell a set of both bitnickels together (in MS67) for a mere US$6000 premium!  8)


OR for 5BTC premium, buyer's choice!   ;D

And this is why I stay away from Casascius coins..

So dazed I'll get a cut, right? :D

Also added that those quotes include the total value of a funded coin *cough cough*

I would offer a finder's fee to anyone able to link me with a buyer...

Happy to see that we are starting to recognize that USD premium is a prudent thing to track

And for the rest of the global population not living in the US ?

Why not track in Euros, or Gold ?

WTF is this shit...  its supply and demand more than anything, the premium will change based on sellers V buyers. not £/$ or BTC...

Casascius premiums should always be measured against BTC, since most of us buy and sell cas coins in BTC. To measure it against anything else means you're measuring casascius coins vs BTC vs that anything else. The premium of a cas coin in anything else other than BTC is a bad indicator of growth.

This is a terrible list where are you getting the numbers from? I think Casascius coins premiums have gone down because lack of new buyers. If we have some more people interested in the future the premiums will start to go up again. Please only measure prices in BTC if you want to measure in fiat go on ebay.

Thanks for changing it back to BTC premium estimates.

No estimates should be made in fiat. We operate in Bitcoin here. None of the sales conducted on this site are facilitated with fiat. Also, by estimating premium in fiat you suggest that the premium should go down in terms of BTC as the price per BTC rises.

Full adoption won't occur until we stop thinking of Bitcoin in the terms of its fiat conversion.

I'm glad to see the .1 silver gets it's Numismatic respect

Didnt read the entire thread but $2k usd premium on the 10btc cas.  If you have some be sure to pm me i will take what you have off you hands  ;D

I don't think I have ever seen a cas dime sell for 0.37BTC...

There have been a few auctions for ungraded Cas tenths on the forum lately and the prices seem to have gone for between 0.37-0.5 BTC a piece.
Again, those lower prices are due to the rise in BTC value.

I tend to agree, if BTC falls a bit in price premiums are going to grow.

Anybody want to have a go at revising the numbers in light of, ahem, recent price rises?

Happy to use BTC premiums if people prefer. Also need to make clear if numbers are just the premium or total price?

Ideally, we would use recent sales .....

0.5 BTC Silver, Series-2

I believe highest recorded sale price for one of these was 15 BTC