Bitcoin Forum

Seems like it's been a very long time coming but I noticed that the eMunie team is demonstrating a working version of their platform finally and that it's been renamed to RadixDLT.  Apparently they will be at CoinFestUK today, unfortunately there's no way I can make it across the pond to go see what the deal is but I think it'd be good to have a discussion thread here, the eMunie forums seem to be fairly empty these days but if they finally have a working platform I'm rather curious to see how it all works now.

Anybody in the Manchester area going to check out Coinfest and able to report back about this?  Fuserleer seems to be doing a talk there today.

As Fuserleer said, it went very well. A video was taken and will be shared after editing is completed.

okie

This was posted on Twitter by Fuserleer...

https://twitter.com/radixdlt/status/850648071855845376

Radix could be a bitcoin killer, although name sounds like SOAP POWDER

It's better than eMunie  :)  Does Dan plan to hold an official Radix ICO? Man this shit has been a long time in the making.

+1 HOW CAN I GET MY FILTHY HANDS ON THIS?

Yes, there will be an official Radix ICO, at the appropriate time.

Sorry for asking again, but i am waiting a very long time for an Emunie/Radix ICO, and i have panic to miss it....
Where can i be informed about?

Bitcointalk forum? Facebook?

What's going to happen to those that contributed BTC, LTC & FIAT in 2013 ICO  ???

There was an ICO in 2013 already?  ???
Do you know how the ICO will run exactly?

I'd heard there was some previous donations. I never heard there was an ICO before.

I'm waitig for some years now... i firmly believe in eMunie/Radix  8)

Been waiting to see what happens with RadixDLT as it's "new design" could be interesting.  I had read a discussion between Fuserleer and someone else about a potential design flaw (attack vector) but they never resolved their discussion. I hope they've actually addressed it so I'm looking forward to reading the white paper and seeing some solid peer reviews done on it.

I think there is an ICO coming but they seem to be talking a lot about how you can just buy it on the main net anyways since their supply and demand system will sell you tokens at a reasonable price if there's demand.  Which is nice I guess except it will limit the possibilities for appreciation if they're really aggressive about it.  I remember years ago they were going to limit how much the algorithm could adjust supply but not sure how it's going to be now.

Yeah the dev guy seems like a nice guy.. not sure on his project details though.
The old name made me think of eMule and this new one makes me think of some kind of cutting edge tech with a Radish.

..just wanted to point that out.  ;D

http://s.quickmeme.com/img/e5/e5b1e0e5db24c27eeb38780af6767c376e879daa2f1017e3916020986993489a.jpg

PS:

Don't be ICO'ing around Fussy !!  >:(

Spoetnik you social delinquent, fuck off from anything emunie/radix related.

Yes June 2017 is the target month for the ICO, an [ANN] post will be made by Fuserleer.

The appreciation will be limited by the elastic demand/supply, thus the price stability is a main feature.  No pumps/dumps of the Radix token within the client nodes will occur, as one of the features of the Radix network is price stability.  Fuserleer ran his economic model against the entire bitcoin blockchain transactions up to Jan. 15, 2015, with a price pegged at $0.10 and as I remember, the highest fluctuation was about ~+/- 6%.  This was posted by Fuserleer in one of the eMunie threads here of this forum. 

Bottom line is it is possible to have a stable cryptocurrency using the Radix model, and with the direct Debit card, point of sale functionality these imho are the two features that will drive Mass market adoption by the general public.

okie

Keep cool, i have a very big trust in fuserleer and his skills... I would be worried much more at the many other ICO's..  :-X

I don't know how this price stability feature works, but my first thoughts are the exact opposite of yours. I think this is a fatal design error. Having a price stability feature, i suppose, makes the radixtokens stable against a fiat currency like the euro.

So in this way radixtokens mimick the price volatility of a fiat currency. Which is in my opinion contrary to the spirit of cryptocurrencies.

Radixtokens will not be used as a unit of account. So it is missing one of the main features a 'money'  needs.

So instead a cup of coffee stays 2 radixtokens a cup of coffee will become 3 radixtokens, because the inflation in the fiat currency is mimicked.

So importing the decreasing purchasing power of fiat currencies into radixtokens is in my opinion a huge mistake.

I am curious what others think.

Cheers.

That's not how it works.

Without getting into a long post a 2AM, the tokens are not stable against fiat, or pegged or anything like that.  Radix tokens are stable relative to themselves, NOT foreign currency value.

In your example where a coffee costs 2 tokens, lets also assume that $1 USD = 1 RAD.  Now if the value of the USD crashed (printed too much), then you'd get more USD for your tokens, but the price of coffee in tokens would still be 2.

The price of the coffee is always 2 in Radix tokens, regardless of what USD, GBD, EUR or any other fake currency is doing.

Interestingly pump and dumps work in the opposite direction.  If you want to "pump" the price of Radix tokens against USD, you have to crash the USD.  If you want to "dump" the price of Radix tokens against the USD, you have to pump the USD.

The Radix price in GBP though would stay the same of course, unless you pumped/dumped GBP too.

I am not sure i understand.
if more US Dollars are printed 1 RAD becomes more worth in US dollar terms. So if the initial exchange is 1 USD = 1 RAD it could become 1,25 USD = 1 RAD.

But if someone pumps RAD it does not become more worth in US dollars. So 1 USD stays 1 RAD.

So how does the system recognize if it is a pump of RAD or a crash of the USD? This sounds really revolutionary!!

Cheers!

Surely if a coin is stable then as demand increases then more must be minted, made whatever. Seems against the whole point of crypto of hard capped limited supply like real money is susposedly to be.

Looking forward to the tech, but once again this team settles on a terrible name!  Yeah it sounds like dish soap.  Fuserleer, you should hire a marketer to help you with branding, because where I am sitting it appears to be your greatest weakness.

The brand can carry you a long way, don't shoot yourself in the foot before you even start the race.

Right, the name is really terrible... Emunie was the better one (a little)
But i believe in fuserleer and his skills, RDX would be a big player in crpyto

all the names are freaking terrible. he should spend a little on a marketing opinion. even a twitter poll would  be better.

how long has this been in the works for now? it must be at least 3 years.

Well, bitcoin took 5 years to develop BEFORE it went live so 3 years is really quite astounding for something truly "new and ground-breaking".

I guess since we live in a time of over 600 copy/pasta coins that essentially bring nothing 'new' to the table the patience among the naked-greed crowd is sorely lacking.

you mean pyramid-scheme style crypto

Soap powder, moth balls, rat poison

While the name is important, you'll never be able to please everyone all the time so in the end as long as the product works as advertised then the consumer will adapt and adopt.

e.g.
Amazon - 1994: The original name was supposed to be Cadabra, but Bezos thought it sounded like Cadaver.
customers: What does a rainforest have to do with books? Other than maybe killing the forest for the books?

Apple computers - Customers: Fruit company making computers?  WTF?

...etc

The Radix token supply increases when there is unmet demand for them indicated from the integrated Radix exchange (DEX). The new supply is distributed 50% to those nodes that are supporting the Radix network in various ways via the services they run in their individual node.  The other 50% is distributed to the wallet balance holders in the form a interest payments.  By the way the wallets do not have to be online to have the interest allocated to the wallet address.  The interest just resides in the network as an unclaimed transaction until the wallet is online to receive the interest payments.

What I don't get is why Dan didn't just launch Emunie 4 years ago and then continue development and upgrades, like most crypto projects. People are weary because he's continually delayed launch of the project for new features and tech. Just launch the network already. People are always going to act in their best interest, it's money after all, greed rules.

It gets rather frustrating constantly hearing "Why didn't Dan do this?!?"

Allow me to explain in simple terms why I didn't start with a block chain clone then upgrade it over the years.

Upgrading a block chain with the Radix tech we now have is equivalent to having a horse and attempting to install a Formula 1 engine...it would be a horrible, bloody, mess!

Yes, but honestly, Emunie could have been successful and you could have just transitioned everyone over to Radix when it was ready. I know you're tired of hearing it, but it's hurt your reputation to produce. I was on the Emunie forums years ago but left because there was nothing to be excited about.

It was never my intention to create another "has been" crypto, that is public record.

Therefore if my reputation has been tarnished by trying to do something different, solve real problems, and it being necessary to take 4 years to do so, then so be it.

I'd rather that than be associated with a pump and dumped shit coin that fills a few greedy pockets.

But you're not filling a few greedy pockets, you are bringing a coin to market that would benefit yourself and people who were staunch supporters/community members and devs, many of who have left because 4 years is a long time in crypto.

I've been reading this forum for five years now and this post is the only one that's made me create an account.

I really don't understand how you could have left the Emunie/Radix forums in the last 4 years because what Dan has been creating is nothing short of genius. There's always something to be excited about.

And I understand that 4 years is a long time (I was deciding whether to invest in Emunie or Ethereum before it was released). But I'm glad he's taken the time to make sure its not another half assed shit coin. He didn't sell out and get as much money as he could because he isn't in it for the money. All of the real pioneers of tech have been the same, they don't care about money, they do it to change the world (but I'm sure the bonus of getting very rich doesn't hurt). And I know as investors we're all in this to make money, but by Dan taking his time and creating the best product on the market it guarantees that we make money whilst also having a front row seat to something that's going to change everything.

Every single coin on the market right now either doesn't fix any real world problems, or doesn't have the ability to scale. Radix is different, it solves real world problems and it will scale to levels other cryptos can't even dream of. And I know people won't believe anything until they've read a white paper and seen it with their own eyes, but that time is soon....

I was lucky enough to participate in the last beta a few weeks ago and it's really gonna blow everything else out of the water. I can't wait until you guys get to see it!

maybe that's the whole problem of the entire crypto scene? it's filled with impatient brats who don't hang around for anything worth hanging around for.

anyone who decides to launch only when it's done to their satisfaction is a rare beast and deserves some respect.

for instance ethereum should still be on a testnet considering how many unknowns there still are but greed won out. 

When a coin isn't live, it's not exciting, it needs to be traded publicly and find it's place in the market. It doesn't really matter what Radix can do, if it's not widely accepted, no one will care. Network Effect is a real thing. Again, Dan hasn't launched anything yet, so it's all talk at this point. I'm hoping for the best, I know Dan is a good developer and honest, but I'm in favor of just releasing what you've developed and upgrade as you go.

I agree with most of your statements, but crypto is still a very young technology and things have been moving very quickly, so I think it creates short attention spans for immediate gratification.

Then that disconnect between sensible development and wanting it right now will bite those flighty ass holes hard in the end.

With not even 3 pages of discussion, I think Radix has a long way to go for community support.

8 years of bitcoin and still less than 1% of the planet knows or cares about it (other than to think it's for use by terrorists and drug dealers). 

Great job on community support.

And yet it's ATH, good luck with Radix guys.  ::)

Once the white paper gets released and an Ann I'm sure it will get the support

It will be interesting to see how much will be invested in the Radix ICO ... consider the following:
In 30 seconds BAT raised $30 million, and all they had prior to the ICO was a whitepaper and some high level concept meta coding nothing else.

Radix on the other hand will have a full working Decentralized Web Client Nodes that anyone can run, and yes I even ran on the testnet with a Windows tablet.  In fact a tablet is what Fuserleer uses to demo the working Direct Debit to standard Point of Sale (PoS) terminal.  There are videos of this on the @radixdlt twitter account and the radix forum.

The Open Beta will allow you to play with the Radix Client node software and the client has a built in browser and turing complete javascript compatible programming language. It allows various levels of encryption, so that merchants can use Radix tokens in their business and accounting functions, and still be able to report their taxes on business sales and profits correctly with full disclosure to the government as necessary.

So, still just wondering about how big a truly new and vastly improved, VISA level scalable end product that is almost ready for launch will raise... and we will soon see.

okie

I'm not sure the expanding supply nature will be easy to deal with from an accounting/taxation perspective.  At least under current IRS rules, any expansion that results in you getting coins would be taxable as income at full income tax rates which would make this a gigantic headache for Americans.

Well, I've been waiting for years for Radix to come out and I trust Fuserleer to launch something special in the end.

Seems like the ICO will be uncapped, similar to the Tezos ICO.

I think the fact that this is uncapped and the possibility for rapid expansion of the coin supply and the very poor tax treatment of this situation makes this much less attractive for Americans (who get taxed as income on these).

Is there an approx date of when the ICO will go ahead?

Don't wanna miss it. Still no date or even website link?

Tax treatment will be the same as miners that receive block rewards.  Tax treatment on Bitcoin (and all other fixed supply / variable price coins) are the cap gains rates, which for MOST users is also at their income level since very few hold it for long term periods (minimum 1-year).

The major difference is that pretty much ANYONE can get these rewards of new supply vs. only those with highly specialized equipment as it is with existing solutions. 

With the FABRIC active consensus model only the work that needs to be done is performed.  That work can be performed by any node that is available. 

Feel free to join the club and ask any and all questions.

https://forum.radix.global/ (https://forum.radix.global/)

As for the token sale date that is tentatively still planned for this month. 

The only hold on that event is that we are waiting for the patents to be finalized/published (the Joys of waiting for Lawyers). 

So ROI comes in the form of coins being deposited into your wallet and not in coin appreciation?

Correct.

1 of something worth $2 is the same as 2 of something worth $1.

With all fixed supply models (bitcoin et al) the price is the variable.

With Radix the supply is the variable.  Granted, the attempt isn't to "fix" the price, but to substantially smooth out the high volatility through autonomously generated supply based on the demand. 

Our test scenario where we ran several years of bitcoin txns (over 500M) through the model from day 1 through (I believe) 2015 produced a variance of around 3% +/- from the initial bitcoin value.   

With that decreased level of volatility you don't have to sit around and hope/pray the price doesn't crash, but can go about your day and just login whenever to get the latest dump of back paid interest on your existing holdings.  And if you are running any of the services that provide features for the network like marketplace, chat, mail, distributed exchange, apps...etc then you'll get rewards of new supply as the economy inflates.

so emunie never launched and now its radix ico?

One of the reasons for the name change (amusingly enough) was because of the way people said the name during several of the meetings Dan was having with interested parties.  Many were mispronouncing emunie as e-MYOO-knee (like the muni in municipal). 

This, as well as a desire to have something more catchy, were some of the reasons for the tech re-branding.

Worth noting: Radix is merely the "technology" brand (of which the patents are a part of). 
The "consumer" brand (which will use Radix Tech) is still to be decided.

Peachy will you be announcing the ico date on this thread?

After 4 years you still not finished emunie /radix?
Why is that?

No worries.  There will be plenty of announcements once we gear up the token sale.   ;)

Bitcoin, if you read the full history of it, took 5 years to develop.

Dan developed 2.0 tech years before anyone else (and that only a few coins so far have even began to test using) and decided it wasn't going to meet the complete need set (e.g. scalable, fast and efficient) so he trashed that model and moved on the 3.0 (which currently no project is using) and is about 2 years ahead of anything available.

That 3.0 solution was also just not quite what we wanted, but is solid enough for some real world applications that don't need near-infinite scalability, speed and efficiency.  

The brainstorm came about 6 months ago when he landed on the 4.0 concept of the FABRIC active consensus method.  This method is truly next-next-generation in functionality.  You'll understand why after reading the patent and whitepaper.

Long story short:  A world-changing system requires more time than to just copy/pasta work already done by others.

How was development funded up to this point? Who else other than paying users is going to receive coins if there's going to be an ICO?

Dan self-funded most of it personally as he was quite well-off from his previous successful business ventures prior to becoming interested in the crypto space.

However, there are a solid core group of dedicated members, myself included, that have personally funded the project over the past several years.

Note:  there is not, and never will be (and is technically impossible) a premine.  With a variable supply system a pre-mine is meaningless and not relevant.

lmao emunie still around

Admirable and interesting. The concept of eMunie sounded interesting to me from the beginning. With all the new developments it seems as though I have some reading to do though. Good luck and hoping for a great launch.

Such high level of dedication can't end with a failure. Definitely watching...

Radix/Emunie is a sleeping giant. It could have been released multiple times, but it was never good enough to replace them all. Until now. The current beta is a revolution.

Yowza. All the NXT/IOTA Mafia is come for us. What have you guys done with bahamapascal  :D

Whats the distribution this time? It was pretty bad with the original emunie. why i passed.. (not in a greedy sense, just in a too much inflation sense)

bahamapascal showed up in the Radix shoutbox a few weeks ago, and we chatted for a bit. I think he might of even participated in the last internal beta test when we did the initial testing of the FABRIC tech.

The real question is, why would anyone use such a thing over gold and silver?  It's blatantly obvious no cryptocurrency is an actual store of value.  How could such a thing be that doesn't even exist in the first place?  That's why it has the word "currency" in the name cryptocurrency and not "money".  All currencies are inherently worthless and go to zero on a long enough timeline, while only gold and silver remains.  Since money is a zero sum game, allowing anyone to pretend to be god and act as a central banker issuing currency for profit is a master and slave dynamic.  Hence anyone not using gold and silver is a slave.

Bitcoin kind of tricked people into thinking it replicated those dynamics of gold and silver, but in reality it's designed to centralize into a rent seeking usury system controlled by mining cartels, and those are the new central bankers.  So the fact still remains, anyone not using gold and silver is a slave.

I disagree on most users holding currencies for under a year, you can possibly also convert only between different cyptocurrencies and still get favorable tax treatment by claiming a 1031 exchange in the US-which means you're not stuck just holding one cryptocurrency forever either.  Whereas if you're mining or getting block rewards it's always going to be taxed at the income tax rate.

My total marginal income tax rate is over 40% between the state/city/federal taxes, whereas I would pay half of that with capital gains which is a very large difference in taxation.

I do see that a more stable currency rate may be better for actual payments, though given how rapidly most newer cryptocurrencies have increased in value this just seems like a way to rack up a gigantic tax bill.

Where can I buy Radix?

Not yet - will be announced when ready.

lol, 5 Radix if you want to see Pascal again! But seriously, when Nxt was released, Emunie was on everyone's radar, so there were a lot of people in both communities at the time. Crazy how fast time has passed.

With regards as to when the ICO occurs, here is an indicator, the Open Beta will occur before the ICO is announced.

This will give everyone who is looking for more information on what this is all about, a chance to actually run the client node and services to see how it functions.   ;)  Firstly, Radix is a Decentralized Ledger Technology, (Thus @RadixDLT twitter account), it does not have a block-chain, but is a pure transactional database.  So, because if has no block-chain this is completely new technology, written from scratch.  There are a couple of features that I know for sure are not in any other cryptocurrency, elastic Demand/Supply and the native Direct Debit cards.  These cards can be used with any point of sale terminal, without any need for a 3rd party clearing method such as VISA or Master-card.  And if you are the paranoid type, you can even purchase the equipment for under $100 and create your own debit cards from blank cards that meet certain specifications, that can be purchased off the Internet.  8)

This sounds amazing, finally a coin that has a day-to-day usage, a true currency. You won't even need a bank to have a debit card, and create one by yourself? sweet!
Really looking forward to it.

This project is big-time but not in terms of you will get ridiculous gains overnight, you will get steady profit in here for investors not ridiculous but it is safe. What you will get is the ability to take part in a world changing technology. This technology will also take a lot of coins out of the market, has been worked on for years. Not like today where dev comes out asks for 100m to get started on the project lol. I hate 99% of ICOs but I give my full support to this one I also humbly bow down to the dev.

Your holding account will get more coins if the value "goes up", but what if it "goes down", will coins be deducted from your account?

Sounds like a nightmare from tax accounting/bookkeeping perspective.

Regarding the 50% interest payments every time the mkt cap doubles;
Will it be 50% of the initial holding, or 50% of the holding at time of mkt cap doubling?
Say I purchase 1,000 RDX during ICO and 6 months later the mkt cap doubles, by then I spent 900, and own just 100 RDX.
Will I get 500 RDX or 50 RDX, or is it a different formula altogether?

Thanks, means a lot to hear that!

It was never my intention to cash grab, I wanted to fix broken things! Hopefully all the time and hard work myself and others have put into this project will be worth it.


Without getting into too much detail and jeopardizing our IP, there are a number of ways to reduce the supply without hair cutting wallets (which would be a TERRIBLE solution!!).

Most obvious is to burn fees instead of passing them on as earnings to network nodes.  Transactional and general usage fees are the first port of call, followed by DEX trading fees.  These mechanisms are sufficient for small adjustments but don't offer a huge amount of supply reduction capability in the event of a "crash".

The main mechanism is provided by the fact that to stabilize the base currency independent of oracles and pegging, is that the system itself mediates a lot of the trades.  Therefore if a lot of people are cashing out to USD for example, the Radix tokens can be burnt (publicly thus auditable) by the system in order to reduce the available supply and return confidence to the price.


Interest payments are calculated based on whatever balance is on account at the time of that payment.  So if you spent them, you'd only get interest on the remainder.  Therefore as a speculator HODL to take advantage of growth and spend interest only if you have to.

After thinking about this for a long time, I came to the conclusion that any burning of coins is unnecessary. It punishes people who are actively using the currency (and possibly those protecting it if tx fees are not increased to compensate) in favor of those who are most likely just speculating. In any currency where the price has the ability to remain relatively stable, it should be much less likely that the price is scaring/encouraging people into selling, so the mechanic is likely trying to fix something that isn't broken.

Just my two cents.

My point is that attempting to absorb the crash is unnecessary. If value has left the currency, it shouldn't be solely up to active users to pay the price. It disincentivizes being active which is counterproductive to recovery.

Freezing a percentage of the supply from moving has already been discussed in public on this forum so I take it that isn't one of the ways you're referring to?

To my knowledge there will be NO freezing of supply, however if there is no demand then correspondingly there will be NO new supply distributed.  But then again think about this, the only way to create different token assets is to burn the Radix tokens to create the new asset within the system network.  If there is a drop in the available supply do to asset creation then the system detects this and creates new supply to distribute to the HODL accounts.   ::)

It sounds very similar to the "rolling peg" idea that David Zimbeck of BitBay has been floating for the past year

Well, whatever the fine details are, it seems rather hard to categorize it as anything but Keynesian in nature even if it was done in an automated way.

Digital money that keeps a steady price however mich demand and suppply changes....I think we call that fiat...no thanks. Deflation is the whole point of bitcoin so we the holders of money gain in purchasing power not lose. Awful idea that im sure makes a few insiders very rich.

sounds legit, gonna def read into this more and prob throw decent btc at it.

But you do get deflation, just in a different form. Every time mkt cap doubles you get 50% bonus on your holdings.

Supply and demand determines the value, DCR does this with their POS system stake, the POS ticketing price changes but locks up the funds for months.  cutting the supply, when the demand drop for the purchasing of the tickets the price drops and more dcr are purchased of the market until the tickets are sold, then the price of the tickets adjusts.

Ethereum system is locking up funds in it seems in a endless supply of ICO's which only really the ICO holders will ever use..

spells of genesis used trading card digital asset to create demand at the same time the sales would burn their token .

Any news on an ico date so I can get funds ready?

This is the worst idea I've heard for a long time.

Crypto market is hot though, so there should be some hype and if it trades quick enough, Radix can probably turn a profit till people see it action and realise they've just brought a version of the flawed central banking concept to the blockchain but with a currency nobody is mandated by law to pay taxes in or use.

Does it actually buy supply back when there's little demand at least? If not it's the equivalent of a no/low inflation POS currency but with the invention/addition of a virtual whale that dumps on the price whenever it starts to actually gain value...

Emunie is radix right? Wow I am surprised this project still has not released after four years.

Worth reminding...
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1859022.msg19445357#msg19445357

Tell me about it...I had thought emunie would ICO soon at that time and had followed it very closely.  Missed the NXT ICO back then since it closed so soon.  Doh.

I've heard somewhere that 18th of July was a milestone for Radix (something concerning patents), so what about it?
Are there any news? :)

31 july 2017 - Nothing change.

Seems from Twitter they are doing some conf. and stuff but not a word either here nor on their forum.
Though the team may be very busy, considering that the whole community was waiting for at least some news in June or at last in July, having yet provided no info at all is quite harsh.

quote from radix forum:


patience is a virtue.  ;)

Please keep this thread on-topic guys. This isn't a thread for personal attacks or scam accusations. There's plenty of other threads for those things if that's what you want to do, lol.

Please also keep the language PG-13, there's kids into crypto ;D

So this is eMunie now?

Any information why it has taken this long?

I have just heard of radix/emunie for the first time, and I'd like to read up on it. Can someone point me to something that explains the general idea? So far I haven't been able to find anything really. Is there something like a whitepaper, that summarizes the idea?

Thanks

Status update:
First "live" product released utilizing the Radix protocol.
Not a beta, not a POC, not a trial version:  But a real working solution with a real company
https://twitter.com/radixdlt/status/900357606220251136 (https://twitter.com/radixdlt/status/900357606220251136)

I'll give you a hint:
It's with one of these companies
https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/22/yc-demo-day-s17-day-2/ (https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/22/yc-demo-day-s17-day-2/)

More details to be released very soon.

So, like next year?

Hello Peachy.

Thats  very good news.
Is there a public test version of the software already?
Will there be a public ICO in near future or what kind of distribution type is planed?

Also can you tell what are the technical requirements to run a node.

Thanks.

Any news about when this launches?

So this really isn't an investment or speculative vehicle of any kind, right?

It sounds like it would work well as a currency.

Can someone clarify?

@ dbt1033
RadixDLT (formerly eMunie)  has been in development since 2013, don't waste your time on this shit.

I remember eMunie haha...

It just sounds like they are close to release (maybe)....  always interested in things that are different.  

Just want the dev's opinion / want to know if there is a way to invest or if this is even designed for investment.

From the Forum it seems that the lead dev is currently figuring out an alternative way of doing the initial distribution that would neither be an airdrop, nor an ICO, yet he doesn't say what exactly it is yet.
Like eMunie this will has elastic supply. Moreover nodes will be another way to generate profit AFAIK - and bandwidth will be the most important for a node to have, interestingly
They claim to outperform IOTA on transactions per second etc. but IOTA reacted very angrily to that on Twitter (fun exchange)
They filed patents so apparently, they will publish whitepaper next to prove their claims...
This must be the slowest project in existence! But interesting things need time to develop.

That honor belongs to Maidsafe.. the SAFE Network is in development since 2006!
well, the longer you wait the better it gets, hopefully  ;)

Any news about launch, beta, ICO?

Status Update: Whitepaper released today

https://www.radix.global/ (https://www.radix.global/)

Impressive White Paper!
The Sharding/Logical Clocks concept is fascinating though I can't say I fully understand the tech yet.
Congratulations to the Radix team for this important milestone.

I've read whitepaper 2 times yet can't understand nothing. My blame I'm not a technical guy but reading about how BTC or other crypto (ETH, NEM, Waves etc.) works I was able to understand underlying technology.

I was following this project for about a year and I think it is very interesting to see how it works in reality. Because testing in "lab" environment is not the same as "network effect".

I have just one concern regarding scalability (on par with VISA levels) and rewards to Radix token holders. If you have the best solution for scalability you must incentivise people to spend their tokens as much as they can. But if model of Radix is based on rewarding token holders, theoretically, you can't expect people to spend their tokens. Hodling is encouraged even more because of low volatility index. Having this in mind we just don't need VISA scalability levels in hodling incentivised model. In your situation Radix should motivate its users to spend because of network capacity to scale but I see the opposite - users are incentivised to hodl and receive rewards. As I can understand low volatility (~3%) will prevent from large trading manipulation and holding tokens is much more profitable than day trading?  So, how are you going to solve this problem (if it is a problem for you at all) and encourage people to spend their tokens even if they are aware that they lose their interest? Probably you should reward both sides - holders and spenders. For example, NEM is encouraging users to spend their tokens by increasing user significance on the network. It is logical because you can reach network growth only by rising transaction number. Probably you should rethink your model and incentivise people to spend Radix tokens by rewarding them in some way?

p.s. think about glossary in your whitepaper. It could help not technical people to understand the main concepts.

We can wait for Dan to provide more details, but I can hopefully fill in some of the gaps in the interim as he is supremely busy at the moment writing code and performing optimizations.

This initial whitepaper is merely an overview of the method for how consensus happens (vs. blockchains).  It is not meant to be a total picture for how the Radix "publicly" released product will operate with regards to ensuring supply vs. demand against volatility as well as the reward structures.  Those details will be outlined in the future "Economics" whitepaper that will be released as well.

As for the "lab testing" comment, you should know we are well beyond the testing phase and have already signed up and released the product to our first customer using a "private" version of the technology as part of our partnership with Surematics.   https://surematics.com/ (https://surematics.com/)

Other academic papers are usually so verbose that in the middle of one I always recall the joke about penis and car/paper sizes correlation...

one dynamic to consider that helps with "spending" (vs "holding") that goes with a crypto that doesn't reward spending directly is:  to the same extent that holding is rewarded, so too is the motivation by merchants to give discounts to those buying with that crypto.  So in theory, spending will be encouraged indirectly because merchants will want to hold that crypto compared to other currencies... and so on throughout the digital economy.  Merchants will have many other reasons besides "interest payments" to give discounts to buyers, too.  So spending Radix probably will happen naturally, IMO.   :)

CfB was here !!! good news for emunie Radix !

I think it is impossible to encourage spending just by merchant rewards. First, you need merchants to accept technology (it won't happen soon). Secondly, it is impossible that merchants will hold any kind of crypto just for speculative reasons. If you pay with BTC, actually, they are converting it in fiat instantly! Crypto is not in competition with fiat IMO. For everyday use fiat is the best and it will stay.

Well, with our native debit card (which you can also make for yourself for less than $25) that only our system can do without piggybacking onto the Visa/MC network the merchants will be MORE than willing accept it and thus get off the Visa/MC crazy train of fees since our solution is a substantially lower cost (and easier to understand).  Plus, they'll be able to use the existing point of sale terminals as they do for Visa/MC with no need to do anything themselves.


For reference: 
https://www.cardfellow.com/credit-card-processing-fees/#visa (https://www.cardfellow.com/credit-card-processing-fees/#visa)
What a labyrinth of fees that the merchant must understand to derive the impact to their margins.

I like this idea about native debit card you can use at any point of sale with existing infrastructure. So, it means I can have Radix tokens with low volatility index and spend my balance anywhere with card that costs me only $25? No maintenance fees? As I understand Radix converts my tokens to EUR or USD or other fiat currency instantly?

Hi id really like to throw a bunch of btc on radix when can I expect to do so?? Thankyou . love what u guys are doing

I'll delay posting the detailed mechanics for how the Economics system would work until there is more information (e.g. Economics Whitepaper), but effectively the card would be nothing more than a hard copy wallet of your funds (could also be used for simple cold storage).  It wouldn't convert the funds to EUR or USD as the existing MC/Visa systems do today as that's where the fees are incurred due to using their network.  

Let's be honest. The reason most merchants accept crypto are usually 2 fold:  1: its new and cool and they want to look new and cool. 2: there is a lot of "money" wanting to be spent and they want to get their hands on some of it.  However, that's about the limit of their interaction in the space for most merchants. They fully understand the existing price volatility and thus their rational self-interests compel them not to hold it for longer than necessary and thus immediately convert it to their native fiat after the sale completes.

If, however, that price volatility were to be substantially negated as well as incentivizing them to receive balance increases (interest earnings) on their existing holdings without having to do any Po"X" type of work then they would probably be more than willing to hold Radix tokens.  Not to mention that if their computers are online most of the day verifying network txns that need verifying (with a minimal amount of impact to their computers since the consensus protocol is supremely efficient)  they would also receive earnings payments for their portion of work from the new supply generated.

You can join the Mailing List here to be informed of any upcoming events.

https://www.radix.global/ (https://www.radix.global/)

Ico finished?

are you a troll ?  :D

The native Debit-Card is truly what separates Radix from all other known crypto currency tokens...  8)

Interesting project, happy to have stumbled upon it.

What about a signature campaign for RADIX? Can we expect bounty campaigns like this?

And is there absolutely no way/chance for a RADIX token sale or maybe an invite only pre ICO  which will be operated by crypto influencers?

What is the maximum supply tokens?

Hi,

Its a very interesting project. I joined their mailing list. Do they have a bitcointalk.org announcement?

-bitblaster

And this will be different from simple banking services? Especially for this, you need a really good infrastructure so that you can use your cards anywhere in the world. But this can be a great difficulty.

Hi Fuserleer
I finally found time to read up on your project. Good to see it's moving forward. As I have been working on BitBay's peg for the last three years, this is an area of particular interest to me. One of my conclusions has been that a peg that relies on incentives instead of being enforcable, is vulnarable (ref. NUBITS). Do you disagree? I'm aware you avoid using the term pegging, but what you are describing is in reality an attempted hard peg upwards. But you seem to have chosen a very weak peg downwards. Is that correct, or am I missing something. If it is correct, I find it very interesting. That would mean you have made the opposite choice we did. Our peg is very strong and enforcable downwards, but weaker upwards. Why did you make that choice? I would love to hear you elaborate a little on this. (I perfectly understand if you don't want to reveal all details yet. We are also holding back a lot of detail for now.)

http://cdn.slowrobot.com/62920142008105.jpg


Sorry, will never work. (BTW: I was one of the first alpha testers.)

What do you mean?
The patenting won't work or the technology won't work?

Trying to patent (and thus, totally centralize) a cryptocurrency. Nobody would use that crap. You could simply use Paypal or Visa.

Patents stop people copying the tech before Radix is ready to open source the lot, if third parties develop tech & apps for Radix ecosystem I'm sure they wont be hit by patent infringement notices, but if bad actors try nefarious things they would.

When Radix has been developed by basically one guy, it's obviously centralised (i.e. if he goes under a bus before completion things would be grim), but that's exactly the same situation as bitcoin circa 2007/8, everything was centralised around Satoshi until he finished and released a viable version.

The difference between bitcoin/satoshi and radix/fuserleer is in Satoshi's time people were not thinking of ICO's, but today the chances of someone launching a cynical clone of Radix with scam ICO is near 100%, and that would damage Radix a lot.

My view is those who don't like patents should hold off investing until they're comfortable.

here
https://forum.radix.global/ (https://forum.radix.global/)

1) Don't compare an altcoin developer with Satoshi. The problem Satoshi solved is much larger than any contribution an altcoin can make.
2) Patenting, closed-source licenses and similar techniques do mainly one thing: they centralize development on one team/company. The downsides are not so obvious, but they exist:

- What happens if the company goes bankrupt and nobody wants to "save" it, and they refuse to "liberate" the technology? The value of the coin would drop instantly to ZERO, because nobody could develop it anymore.
- The innovation rate would be lower than in other competing, open technologies, because no developers from outside the team are incentived to participate (why should someone join a team where almost the whole profit has been made by others?). So even if the coin has some interesting feature, it will most likely be one of the "old, outdated" projects in short time.
- There would be compatibility problems with open projects. The project would not benefit from the open technology stack, and it could only use a subset of potentially interesting and useful technologies.
- Software patents are only valid in certain countries. A cloner would only have to move to a country where software patents are not accepted. So the whole effort of patenting some parts of the technology becomes futile.

Thus, I would never recommend anyone to invest in a patented cryptocurrency.

I do not fully agree with your worries. If the company goes bankrupt the company will be forced to sell all its assets, including the patented technology, to pay its debts. So the development would continue in a (probably centralised) way. If nobody wants to buy it. The patent technology would be sold very cheaply. I could buy it to make it open source.

I read at their website that the patented technology would be made open source after the platform reaches a certain adaption rate.

And i am not certain that you can invest in radix. You can buy the native stable coin, but why would you buy something that is not going to appreciate in value (1 token is approximately 1 usd)?

Radix when launched will have its own integrated Decentralized EXchange (DEX). So you will be able to purchase as many Radix Tokens at $1 each as you want, using any of several top CMC coins or a select few of the fiat currencies. Granted the Radix native token is designed to be relatively stable, but you can earn additional tokens in 3 ways.  The new supply is split 50/50 between account hodlers and nodes providing various services to the main Radix network. The 3rd way is you also earn fees for doing work with your nodes.  So as you can see there are incentives to both hodl and run service nodes.

What d5000 is not seeing is that most known and valuable Microsoft or Apple products are closed source, but it looks like everyone doesn't have any problems with that... But why is Radix closed source? They've patented the technology so:
1. others can't just steal their idea and a working product they've put so much time and work into for the past 5 years and this is an absolutely healthy move in my opinion;
2. banks can't copycat a superior tech to use it for their purposes (for free) but instead they will have to pay, which is very important, thus increasing the power of the Radix team and the ability to contribute further to the existing tech and mass adoption of it.

But unlike these Microsoft or Apple products Radix is going to become opensource once it reaches some level of adoption and then everyone can verify its code is legit.

As to the point that if the company goes bankrupt and the value of the coin will drop to zero: Radix will be a fully working product, so, from what I've learned, once a mainnet (aka the Universe) is launched you cannot modify (fork) or develop it any further, unless we're talking about modules like Marketplace, ChatRooms, WebBrowser, etc. which can just plug into an existing software.


The real incentive to buy RDX tokens when the platform goes live is not to wait for the price increase but instead for the distribution of the newly generated by the system RDX tokens to the existing holders when demand increases (read the FAQ on their website).
It won't be x100 ROI due to marketcap increase by the factor of x100, because:
1. RDX holders receive 50% of the new tokens (this number is not final yet though);
2. the system will everytime recalculate how much of the total number of tokens you have, decreasing the % of new tokens you receive.
You can find a formula in a telegram chat if you wish to. Each boat rises equally.

Just keep in mind that Radix is a complex solution for scalability-volatility-centralization-ease-of-use-adoption problems, everyone's been waiting for soooo long!

Peace! :)

I think the fear of this is a tad overblown. Ripple has 1 clone, NXT I think has 1 clone, ETH I believe has no clones and 1 fork. I'm out of the loop so I could be way wrong. On top of that, since Radix intends on not having a pyramid distribution, the incentive for cloning is much less. If there isn't a step by step manual of how to clone and make $$$billions$$$, not many will put up the effort when they can just market some "industry breaking tech" on a bitcoin clone or ETH token with a 2 or 3 page whitepaper describing how random industry XYZ needs the blockchain, and needs it baaaad and this token is named after that industry so $$$.


They presumably would only have to pay for whatever service your implying while the code is closed source. Centralization was hinted at before in some chat log leak about "users not caring about centralization" or some such in another emunie thread. This is hinting at it again. It's fine if Radix wants to go some centralized-ish route, though I don't personally see how it's a sustainable model if the code will be open sourced later.

There's a 3rd reason for that patent that everyone misses...it's called a pinch, and is probably the most important of the 3.

Assume that our patent ISN'T granted.

Later some bank, or corporation, files a patent that infringes on our tech, and it DOES get granted.  It happens, maybe they worded something slightly differently, had better lawyers due to more money, etc

Then they decide "Hey, lets go sue those Radix guys and destroy the business they have built, cus, y'know, we own their tech now!"

So they come along with a law suit and they have us dead to rights...

But they don't, we can show our patent submission and it's refusal.  So if we really are infringing on their patent, then our patent should have been granted as it has an earlier date and theirs should have been refused.

Law suit dismissed!

With so many banks and corps filling patents and getting them granted, with tech that is arguably public domain in some cases, it made total sense as a defense.

I don't know why so many people have an issue with the patent, it's clearly defensive and allows us to monetise the tech to continue development long term from private licenses, regardless of the open source status for public, non-profit deployments.

I've been watching the progress on this a little so I don't know all the details. Is it going to be open source, i.e. following the spirit of what crypto is supposed to be about? If yes, than you can then hit anyone that takes the code to start their own coin with a lawsuit and/or blackmail them to pay you a fee. Basically, it all just looks like greed like any other bank/corporation out there and not in the spirit of crypto.

Having an open source code base released prior to their patent is a pretty dead-to-rights prior art defense. ;)

Why are you giving this example? Although you say 'assume it isnt granted' i am confused. The radix technology is patented not?

Filed, but not yet granted. 

Patents can take years to grant (yet another broken/slow process looking for potential disruption).

No official BCT ANN Thread?

It's in alpha on a testnet. Why and what would they announce? BTW you can find plenty of announcement/beta announcement topics for eMunie here on BTT, so just pick one :).

Probably this is the oldest: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=220530.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=220530.0)

everything you need to know is posted on telegram channel. thats enough for now :)

Exactly right, this is a very smart rear guard action it will make it soooo much easier to being "shut" down by legal threats.

See Banks even if they have little grounds can bury you with the costs of a law suits and perhaps stop you in the intermi with injunctions.

So this is a very *very* smart move by Dan inmho.