Bitcoin Forum

Just happened. True Story

I helpfully pointed out how their customer service sucks with links to the many threads here pointing out the distain and campaign to rid Bitcointalk of their ads and such. *edit* yes I probably could have handled it with a bit more tact, I admit.  But I'm trying to speak for the community and try and get BFL_Josh to answer for his companies' crimes.

 I asked for a change of address through email, 2 weeks in I finally got a reply after starting my thread, a week after I hit them back still no change to my shipping address as Jally's "fly" out the door.

Asked for a refund. No answer.

Now I am apparently now banned with a time limit of "Never"

I guess Ill not be getting my money back, or my order is being sent to the wrong place?

It is now my vendetta to lose them as much business as I can. So good job turning a potential customer into a sworn enemy. I will get my order money back in lost orders for you.


Where is my money you bastards?

I call for a full on mutiny, enough is enough. These people are a pimple on the ass of this industry and needs to be cleansed.

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

I am Jack's raging bile duct  >:( >:(

Yeah I reversed Paypal before it was too late, can't trust a business that treats customers terribly.

I'm looking into my options for a reverse charge, all I can do at this point I suppose.

Anyone else astounded by the fanboyism over there? Must be inner circle or just 100% delusional because they hold order #1-10 or something

Maybe consider filing an FTC complaint as well.

This may be of interest to you: http://business.ftc.gov/documents/alt051-selling-internet-prompt-delivery-rules (http://business.ftc.gov/documents/alt051-selling-internet-prompt-delivery-rules)

Complaint form: https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/ (https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/)

I will happily do so, might stop by the BBB as well.

I just tried filing a resolution with PayPal but it was instantly closed, too long since the initial transaction I guess?

So BFL has my money and apparently won't give it back. I will give it some more time but I might just be screwed here.

For me the maths don't add up, why sell something when in ten days of running you could make more money by keeping. Unless that's the plan wait for the difficulty to reach a certain level then sell them when they no longer make enough profit ??

I am Jack's Smirking Revenge....


In all seriousness, for what us idealist are trying to do with crypto coins, you'd think there would be a fuck ton more Fight Club references floating around here...

Back on subject. Send a certified letter requesting a refund, the means in which would be acceptable for them (BFL) to return said funds. If they refuse, call the pigs or something... just make sure you document everything or you wont have a leg to stand on.

Don't be surprised if what breaks the camel's back in this whole fiasco of BFL is a lawsuit where BFL's accounts are seized.

Just saying...

 I'm genuinely curious if they have heard from the Missouri AG or the FTC yet about my complaints.

If you are going to report what you think is a scam. The scamming BBB site is not the place to do so.

Well, if you want a refund apparently I found a fast method-

Go over to their forums, start a thread entitled "Your customer service sucks" outlining how you went through proper channels at first to resolve your issues (simple shipping address change in my case) and didn't hear anything back for weeks.

Tell the first BFL fanboy to get in your face for questioning their all knowing and infallible overlords to "suck Josh's scammer dick more"

Once banned, head over to their Facebook and ask them politely "where is my money you fucks..."

Then send another email to customer service calmly explaining I would be posting a thread entitled "BFL IS A SCAM" on every forum I could find until I get my money back.


Just got:



http://www.blockburner.net/images/Subzero_mk_fatality.jpg




Sure, I could have been more mature about it, but this is not a mature company either when it comes to their business practices and helping their customers with legitimate problems.  It did become my mission after a point to simply be as disruptive as I needed to be to get my money back from these scamming cheats and liars immediatly. Mission accomplished. Sometimes you have to fight the dirty with dirt.

Ill be giving my funds to the likes of ASICMiner or someone else that actually deserves it instead.

Fuck you Inaba, your company is garbage and I will be making sure the world knows it too.

It isnt about money, its about the principle.

This company has dicked everyone around for over a year, not delivered, called their customers idiots, and is run by convicted scammers.

Nope, I will be dead before I let my funds help keep this shameful display alive.

http://www.blockburner.net/images/bflioulolz.png

Remember all those threads/posts we made months ago where we said customers would start to get pissed and will be the demise of BFL..

BBB is a good start, but they are pretty much a powerless entity if the company chooses to ignore your complaint.  An approach with more bite would be to notify your state's attorney general's office if you are in the USA.  Charge back your credit card immediately.  Do not mess with paypal or useless refund requests.  Your credit card is there to protect you, as much as we all hate the big banks.  That is their job.  If that fails, then, consult with a lawyer on a contingency basis (they don't make a dime unless you win, and then they take a percentage) to sue them for the amount they owe you.  They will consider things you haven't even dreamed of beyond what you are owed, like lost earnings and punitive damages for bad faith.  The letter from the attorney alone should be enough to get your refund, but you may be able to get far more.

Edit:  ah nevermind I see you got refunded.  I will leave this up for anyone else going through the same thing though.

Well, they say I will be refunded, I have to give them the benefit of the doubt that within 5 days my money will return since I have no choice.

Really it is true, BBB and other agencies can't really do squat. Best course is to kill them at the source: spread the word about their epic scam and try to keep any new money from reaching them from gullible customers like myself. Granted, all of the information wasn't there when I ordered like many. If I had known their CEO was a scammer from the jump I never would have sent them anything.

I bet if Butterflylabs only knew what kind of ridiculous shit people would pull because they cant wait for their magical money printing machine to get here fast enough they would have charged twice as much.  Not charging twice as much is most likely their only regret. 

 Therein lies the rub. If I knew Butterfly Labs had such a shady history, I never would have involved myself with them in the first place :( It seemed silly, at the time, to consider thinking about canceling the order when they were supposed to ship back in October... November... December... January... February... March... April...

 I'm all for second chances and redemption, but the company seems rotten to the core from everything we've witnessed over the last year.

Refund From    BF Labs Inc.   Pending Until May 29, 2013

On my PayPal


It appears I shall indeed get my money back soon

a few days ago bfl posted a message on their forums saying they're finally starting to ship 'more' jalapeno units. lol

Yeah they say lots of things. Its not about getting a unit for me, it is about denying them an order for their unacceptible business practices.

I would rather give my money to an ASIC seller that deserves to be funded. BFL does not.

Here's some fun stuff. They even claim that they'll soon have product on the shelf for immediate shipment...

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status-3.html We are expecting several thousand chips next week from our new packaging facility and expect to start shipping all product lines next week. Beyond that, we will be receiving thousands of chips per week at an ever increasing pace between now and until all of the remaining 68 wafers are used up. We have additional wafers on order and they should be ready about the time we've used up all 68 wafers should we need them. Soon after, we hope to have product on the shelf for immediate shipment, depending on how many orders come in between now and when we catch up the backlog.

 How is this going to be any different than the thousands of chips they were supposed to receive last week ? The week prior ? The month prior ? Two months prior ?

 I find this very difficult to believe. Why would they fire their vocal customers when they are so imminently close to shipping (unless it was done for purely spiteful reasons; do you want to do business with a company like that ?)

 Something doesn't add up.

"supposedly' they shipped all jalapeno orders for june 23 to 25th on 3 days ago.  What isn't clear is if this was another 'burp' like a month ago when they shipped out samples to testers and important people or actually for real customers.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/

Who knows, there is no reason to trust anything they say as they have only put out lie after lie about their shipping timetables.

I received my jally 5/23 (ordered 6/24/12) and Im a nobody.

so at least they are shipping to regular folks now.

be interesting to see how well they can keep it up.

DDOS!

Don't worry....

I know where you can get new kit Really really cheap and they won't give a shit about what you say.....

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=18533906357&ali_refid=a3_430009_1006:1104313814:6::fece26294d939db05b863e7a9b9e8adc&ali_trackid=1_fece26294d939db05b863e7a9b9e8adc (http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=18533906357&ali_refid=a3_430009_1006:1104313814:6::fece26294d939db05b863e7a9b9e8adc&ali_trackid=1_fece26294d939db05b863e7a9b9e8adc)


LOL anyone recognize the pictures......

Is there any chance you could be bothered to post a picture of your unit with a timestamp?

Just for those of us wearing tinfoil hats.

wow this is very much suprising, are they rly doing deliveries now?

But still only jalas^^

regards

If I could only read Chinese.

Yo!  Just file a small claims suit.  It's not that hard.

sure. here ya go. sorry for pic qaulity,

cgminer stats

https://i.imgur.com/KEfvhmq.jpg (http://imgur.com/KEfvhmq)

rather blurry overview

https://i.imgur.com/RSzccOX.jpg (http://imgur.com/RSzccOX)

slightly better overview

https://i.imgur.com/d9o3vMG.jpg (http://imgur.com/d9o3vMG)

Vapourminer, your pc days you're getting 5+ Gh/s, what's your mining pool say you're getting?  And how many BTC's per day are you getting?  Thanks!

I didnt check when it was running solo, it normally runs on my desktop along with a 6870 that gives around 300Mh/s. pool says 5.7 GH/s for that worker, so it tracks.

dunno how many btc just the jally gets, I run a bfl fpga (870 MH/s ave), 5830 (330 MH/s), the jally and a 6870 (300MH/s). pool says 0.242 btc in the last 24 hrs, but Ive turned it on and off a few times playing around with it

LOL BTC a day.......
work it out Just over $25 a day maybe about 0.2 BTC, the days of getting a full BTC for <10GH/s are long gone......

Glad someone is actually receiving these things...even if they didn't ask for them?

Though these are just Jally's, I'm curious when we might see their successor the Single SC which is a different design. Their entire BitForce line is nowhere to be seen. 

Vapourminer did this thing ship with an actual UI software to use or is it just what you are showing here?

Atleast someone got a product..

nope. no software, no instructions, no packing slip.

just the jally, a usb cable, and the power brick.

oh yeah and it also came a bfl coffee mug in the box.

Interesting... I thought the Bitcoin community was rabidly antigovernment? ;)

But anyways, it's sounded like they've been giving refunds to anyone who's asked, haven't they? And those rules are for inventory that you have in stock - if you sell out due to great demand and can't arrange for more inventory within 30 days, you'd have to stop taking orders until you were reasonably sure that you could fulfill those orders in a timely (read, 30 day) manner.

BFL likely falls outside this - everyone ordering their products (myself included) were aware that they were pre-ordering a product that was not under production yet. Though their guidance about possible ship dates has pretty much sucked, they weren't misleading in that they were clear that they had no product to speak of at the time orders were placed. Our bad.

Now, if they weren't giving refunds, there'd be a real issue, but most of us are sitting tight to see if they do actually ship. Mainly because they're the ONLY ASIC game in town for people who want to run the machines out of their homes rather than just buying ASIC Miner shares.

My trust was so low I really wasnt sure they would give me a refund because I spoke up on my displeasure. Had I not been as disruptive as I was who knows if they would have given my money back, I quite literally did threaten to slander them up and down with the facts anywhere I could until I got my funds back (though I'll be doing that anyway). I've heard others got refunds but not without some effort.

I will know if they will make good in about 3 days, if so I can call myself free of their web of lies.

Slander != Facts. Stick to facts.

Well, not slander I suppose, just spreading the facts, like their CEO being a convicted criminal fraudster  :o

Can I start a bounty on BFL? Every who has money in BFL invests in lawyers and police. With enough support the customers as a whole can get their bank accounts cleared and a search warrant to the BFL factory. What happened to Simon Hausdorf at btc-24 can happen to them.

I hope they are a scam... lol... I keep directing future investors there... My plan is... if they are a scam, that leaves more future hashing power for me, since everyone spent money there, and not on more GPU cards. However, if they are not, I am as screwed as they are. (Because if they are not a scam, that will turn all those 60GHs units into the equivalent of a single 7970, when everyone has one, and others have 1.5THs units. Funny thing is, they are paying $2000+ for what I only had to pay $380 for. That same 0.000001% of the market.)

Any way you cut it... those who didn't buy THs machines are going to have to mine for years to get the money they paid, except the first few dozen who get the actual units.

Looking at the hashing-power of the network, I see that the machines have about as much up-time as down-time. They will all be spending about 90% of the time sitting idle, with no transaction work to process. Not unless they start allowing smaller transactions again, and they start taking all the "free" transactions to fill a block.

The joke is on those STILL buying... The money they spend now (like a pyramid scam), is going to those who are now asking for refunds. BFL wants you to get a refund. They don't actually want to give you units. They used everyone to build themselves all the THs units. Just like Avalon and the blades... Bitcoin is going to be a corporate coin now. Thanks to many greedy investors who just couldn't say no.

LOL, until the Chinese decide they want to make the 1.5THs units for us, for $200 each... since they don't care about copyrights, and they have all these chips laying around, and us wanting to buy them to drive BFL and others under for robbing us of our value in the market. Mass-production wins every time.

For the record, I DO have an order in for one... just for the novelty of it. It CAN be programmed to crack and hash... so it does have other non-coin related potential. If it can't be used to make coins honestly, it can be used to make other funds in other ways. lol. If they can get them to stay running.

Well, didn't some guy walk into BFL and get kicked out? Reminds me of those magazine salespeople from the 90's. Sell you magazines and you never get them and when you show up to the office they call the police on you. People would show up and try to argue with these kinds of people. Been there done that.

As far as slander I don't see any yet, keep up the fact talk and your good. You know companies like this only stay in business if they have a list of paid supporters, be careful whom might be quick to defend or tell you to get your facts straight because odds are they those people are disinfo and on the payroll.  ;D there around here somewhere.

As a outsider that really got into Bitcoin too late, I notice a lot of crying over BFL. People get real excited because they say they will ship and when they don't arrive they crash and cry and try to justify why nothing came. Then when you ask people why not cancel and move on in life they attack you... almost like they have a abusive love hate relationship with BFL. Honestly its a little sad to read these threads on every Bitcoin board bout BFL crying all emotional. Its sad that any company would do this, yet none of these people give up and cancel their order... its amazing.

How many of you have actually just given your money away when no product was ever there or existed? I mean if this was a car would you hand the dealer thousands to receive it a year later? would you pay for a sandwich only to eat it in a years time? So much trust in something you know nothing about. I just find this odd. They learn on your dime.

Well im staying clear and sorry I'm a straight talker so that's my 2ct.

If only every new person to this forum comes away with that evaluation... nay.... it is good at least one new person does learn from those who made the mistake. Here is hoping the moaning and whining does in fact turn the tide of pre-order mania and people stop giving this company money.

There is some definite stockholm syndrome going on. Over on their forums I was attacked several times for calling out a simple fact that their customer service time was unacceptable (weeks? for a company with millions of dollars how can that be). The acolytes descended harshly to defend their masters, despite another simple fact they have not delivered on the new BitForce line for over a year.

It astounded me people would defend them so with a mountain of evidence that they are a company comprised of actual, convicted scammers and amateurs. And in Josh's case, just assholes.

They never even had a finished product, and people gave them money for what exactly I'm wondering. 

One day i want to buy magic beans to grow a magic beanstalk, so i can climb it, and get the golden eggs...sounds plausible.  I think I saw some magic beans for sale on  ebay via hong kong...fee shipping.....brb..

In Soviet controlled East Germany you can pre-order a Trabby (a small car for communists) and then you get put on a waiting list and you get the car after 20 years. usually when a baby is born someone from the family would order the car, so that when he/she grows up they will have a car then.

AMEN. ALLELUIA.

Just file a consumer complaint with the Kansas AG's office. FTC is not going to get you anywhere. The AG may actually do something about these clowns.

http://ag.ks.gov/

Here's the direct link to the form: https://ag.ks.gov/contact-us/file-a-complaint/consumer-investigation-request

When you fill it out, make sure you document everything as well as you can. The AG is not going to pursue an investigation if your request just says "These guys suck." without any documentation to back it up.

If you want to file a complaint against BFL, the Kansas AG will give you the most bang for your buck as long as you don't fill out the form half-assed.

Alright, well I did receive my full refund today on my order.

So, it is possible to get a refund if you voice your displeasure enough.

I suggest if you are unhappy with your order you do the same to tell them what you think about their business before it is too late.

WOW. BFL is a scam straight up

They called us the "BFL clowns league". Now everyone knows who the real clowns are ...

http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/k9l5-1n-66f0.jpg