Bitcoin Forum

Here is the link for full article :

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/3214-first-single-sc-60gh-s-has-left-building.html


You guys think BFL will  make it in 2-3 months and empty their backlog ?

The first single :-) Probably there will be only this one and that's why it's called single  ;D

Funny because it's slightly true in terms of extreme put-off attitude from BFL.

Hope they get sued back to prison.

Wait, so they're saying they shipped *now* after claiming they already shipped earlier too? Am I confused or does someone need to make up their minds.

we're talking abt singles, not japs  ;)

+1 as that was my first thought as well, tease them with 1 unit and hope to get more paid orders thinking they will get them soon, more like xmas...

The orders will be shipped when they are worthless cause Asicminer presents the next generation of chips in oktober or november this year... - Get your money back from BFL and buy ASICminer Shares

The community is working on it. Their lawyers will probably be powered by BitCoins and Singles no doubt....

they will not sell anything that can't make more profit to them, than to you

I doubt anything bad will happen to BFL, too many people got their money and hopes there.
As from my point of view, i wish that BFL to finish their backlog and get their orders shipped on a day to day basis; i mean, who wouldnt want to order a product now and get it shipped tomorrow ?  ::)
I have NO orders to them, i own ASIC blade, but im just saying ...

I wouldn't object to that either. It would be nice to get it on demand.

They shipped two yesterday, so much for your troll

ASICMINER shares are a total joke, they sell for 2.5BTC and pay a pathetic dividend  which you can read all about here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150047.20

You can make an order of magnitude more BTC running $274 5GH/s ASIC miner from BFL, or simply investing in normal shares and exchanging the dividend for BTC. ASICMINER is the biggest ripoff I have heard of in the ASIC market. ASICMINER prey on noobs.

Looks more like a double now.

Right, so in order to achieve that let´s sue them, get their asses in prison and shut down/impede the production so that no one will ever receive their product, or at least delay the production even more.
Yeah, that’ll work.

Well, fuck that part of the community that is working on that.

Did you get a dev one yet?

I noticed on the screen shots that Lab_rat did there were some HW errors and was wondering what that means in the context of the BFL miners.



https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/3226-my-visit-bfl-hq.html

Another BFL shipped thread...

No I have not gotten one yet, nor have we had remote access to one, though I'm pretty sure we (Kano and I) will get ours soon. We have been left totally out of the development loop with BFL, only getting hardware when it's finished. So we can't finalise the driver till the actual hardware is right beside us. Given it took us less than a day with the 5GH miner, it should be the same when we get our singles. Hardware errors are common with ASIC devices of this nature and the aim is usually to clock them to keep them bound to under 1%.

Well, BFL has a long tail to step on. People have had alot of trouble, ergo...people will do whatever they think is right.

If their past troubles bring down BFL then it is all on BFL. (In my opinion)

If people have an order with BFL they should just see their own interest and not throw a wrench in the works, now that BFL is finally shipping.
If they don't have an order, then they should just mind their own business and quit playing the Unsolicited Captain Frickin Avenger, and let the others receiving their products.
My opinion also.
 

You realize that your just feeding the forums worst troll, I have had him on my ignore list since April.
No need to take my word for it, just look at the list of top 10  posters: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=stats

I know, I know...my bad.

10/10 would harass BFL again

<Shrug> Opinion Noted. I don't think anyone can stop that process at this point anyway.

I just heard yesterday that BFL has already been officially served already by one group at the very least. I haven't heard from the others.

If you knew some of the details on one case at least, I think there is a good reason or chance that many customers would actually worry because there is a non-zero chance it would impact things. So lets hope BFL clears their queue before they are affected enough to impact their delivery schedule.

Just keep an eye out on BFL and see what happens or if anything even changes and then take the cue from there.

Edit: Or Add me to the ignore list so you guys don't get to know any of that. No signs for the blind curves up ahead makes for a happy customer.

Pimped-out Single:
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/dbtgallery.php?do=gallery_image&id=1175&gal=gallery&type=full

That's cool, the red suits it.

292W!

Looks like 252W I think. The 60GH/s draws more than the 50GH/s, they will be around 225W

Is likely one of the initial one made with unbinned chips, yes, 290W @ 60GH.
The newer ones should go around 225W.

I'm guessing still more efficient than a GPU

Yeah like 100 times more efficient.

looks cool

Yes, 290W @ 60GH for these unbinned chips, but I am a bit more worried about the temps (around 70C).
At the same time the unit is not enclosed, so the two big push-pull fans are not quite efficient in the image.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/dbtgallery.php?do=gallery_image&id=1174&gal=gallery&type=full

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/dbtgallery.php?do=gallery_image&id=1171&gal=gallery&type=full

Temps are fine 67C for the 60 GH/s.

http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a574/Lab__Rat/IMG_1157_zpsc5d4a791.jpghttp://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a574/Lab__Rat/IMG_1157_zpsc5d4a791.jpg

You're maybe right, but I am a bit obsessed you know, I keep my cards under 60C :)

Then buy a 50GH/s Single not a 60GH/s unit.


I have never had a GPU fail at 70C, it's always the other components that fail not the GPU chip.

Ha! :)
I would definitely choose a 60GH unit whatever the temps, besides, I think the temps will lower a bit while the unit is enclosed.

You are certainly no far behind....(BFL PR Depearment)

Funny u have a nearly full time job on the forums erk mac jerk

Interesting part here is of course what speed they can keep on backlog. If they manage to bring all product lines up to par with current Jalapeño shipping speed (clearing a month of backlog in 4 days as of latest update) it may actually be a viable proposition to buy a SC or Sac Single even straight off the website. $1200 for 25 gh/s with delivery in say late August seems like it could actually be a ROI positive proposition.

Hey Swede -

Are you factoring the additional network hash power that would be added if BFL was able to clear out their current backlog to be capable of delivering news orders in August?  Some have speculated that with the Minirigs and Singles in the pipeline it is close to 200+ TH/s (and some estimates are 500+).

I consider profitable anywhere from 7 to 9 bitcoins per day. Not 1.

If you don't keep upping your hashrate, you just keep earning less and less each day.

Right now, you need a good 400GH/s to earn 7 to 9 bitcoins per day. Imagine by August. Current ASICS are way overpriced. There is either going to be a huge drop in prices soon or a major disatisfaction from miners earning less than 1 btc per day. (Of course, for previous GPU owners that is an amazing amount of cash for them)

I like how you have to rely on some blurry image someone took my accident when filming a video for you specs on what your buying.

A real business makes their information public, the good and the bad. For example Diamond Air makes their test flights (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQeBHSsL56o) public with all the data they can gather listed right there, because they have nothing to hide.

In my opinion, BFL is decent option compared to their competition at the present moment. I know they've had issues in the past, but they fact that they are cranking out Jalapeno's is very encouraging.

Lets compare them to their competition:

1.) ASICMiner - The price of their blades and usb miners is a complete ripoff that will likely never earn back what the cost in BTC (cost over $400/GHs).

2.) KNCMiner - This company looks encouraging, but they still have a long way to go before they can ship a working product. I'd give them a 50/50 shot of shipping anything in 2013 (Cost of ~22$/GHs).

3.) Avalon - All you can do at the moment is buy the chips and hope you'll be able to turn them into a working miner in a timely fashion (assembled cost and delivery unknown, but Terrahash is selling for ~50$/GHs).

4.) BitFury - I haven't been following this company that closely because I don't feel comfortable ordering anything priced in BTC from Russia.

5.) BTC - Shipping Jalapeno's, huge backlog being worked off at about the rate of 1 month per week, cost of ~$50/GHs.

6.) Buying used ASICs secondhand is also a complete ripoff with prices of Avalons going for ~$500/GHs.

You can either buy 2 USB miners from ASICMiner (600 MHs) or a 7 GHs miner from BFL for 4 BTC. If the BFL Jalapeno ships in the next 2 to 4 months, which I think will happen due to their recent performance, there is a clear winner.

I understand that some folks with early pre-orders are pissed at BFL, but if one does the math and tries to take a truly unbiased view of the current ASICs landscape, BFL is not a bad option...

You can't compare their price to BFL's list price. BFL's price is not a real price, you have to multiply that price by the deliveries/orders ratio to get the true price of a BFL.

If I make a website selling at $1/GH/s and never deliver a single one, that doesn't make mine the best price.

There is one problem with your calculations. If BFL delivers their entire backlog, that could add 200-300 TH/s to the hash rate. Tripling the hash rate (even before the Avalon/Klondike wave hits in Aug/Sept/Oct). That would cut returns for BFL single & mini-rig owners by one third. If BFL does not clear their backlog, you cannot get a device ordered today from them until they do. It inserts an large element of uncertainty.

ASICminer is just gouging because they can. Currently, they are the only ASIC company that will deliver an order you place today within a week.

BFL devices would still be fairly profitable to operate at 3x current difficulty. I believe you need to get all the way to 10x current difficulty in order for profitability to look iffy.

They can only be profitable after they reach break-even point, which is going to be several months (or maybe even never) after the device starts mining.

I agree, but BFL offers some of the lowest cost/GH devices. If their devices aren't profitable to operate in a couple months, neither will most of the other available ASICs devices.

It does seem like there is a big bubble building in ASIC mining hardware. If the price of BTC doesn't go up, or if the cost of ASIC mining hardware doesn't go down, the future doesn't look that bright for miners.

I agree with k9, the only real choice is between ASICminer at $400/GH/s and BFL at $50/GH/s. The gamble everyone has to make is whether the difficulty will go up by a factor of 8 by the time you receive your product. According to the futures market (FWIW, but it's the only place you can put your money where you mouth is https://icbit.se/WebTrade/Account/Futures.aspx), it looks like that will occur after September.

If you think you can get a BFL delivery before September, then order BFL. Otherwise, ASICminer's USB thingys seem to be more profitable.

Which is why I am saying....

If you don't have 400GH/s today, tomorrow you will be feeling the pain in a very sharp way.

I assumed the block solving would speed up with the extra ASIC's ...and they have, so the profit for me is up. But...that will only last a short time and then the profits are going to belly flop on concrete.

------------------------

The people who get BFL hardware today are going to have to invest everything they make into a new order. (or accept a meager bitcoin income)

Essentially (unless their order was large) they are going to be working for BFL. Funneling their own profits back into the company in one way or another. (Same is true if they went for Avalon or ASICMiner.)

The only way out of this is to get you hands on 10k right now and dump it on a company that can turn that into a 350Gh/s miner (or two).

If you are late to the rate race eventually it will dawn on people they are going to have a hard time staying in the race. It will be self evident in the near future. ASIC prices must come down or BitCoins must revalue at a very high rate. This remains a possibility.

So has anyone gotten an email to send their FPGA in for trade in yet?

As with most successful business ventures. if you dont reinvest into it(expand), then you will get crushed by competition. Same goes with BTC mining.

Difficulty adjustments were 10 to 14 days, now they are shrinking to 4 to 7 days.

So 3x means you'll get to it in about 12 to 21 days.

At 10x you'll get to it in about 40 to 70 days.

This is all assuming the rate doesn't accelerate...which is exactly what is going to happen with the huge number of ASICs.
Expect less than half that time frame when Singles ship.
-------------

Though, there are alternate scenarios where an ASIC is still profitable if you think about the problem in an ingenius way.

Which is why the rat race is about to occur. Those with money can acquire the large number of Gh/s they need to stay profitable. Those who started late, must use almost all their profits to reinvest into more hardware.

I don't know yet, but it might be a zero sum game.

If it turns out that way, the resell value of ASICs is going to drop way below what the retail price is currently at. So it might all work itself out. I will soon offer a ridiculously low offer for Singles. People will scoff at first, then when they can't make enough, they will take it. LOL.

Low cost, but very long wait time, which obscures their true cost. Their true cost is extremely high because of the rising difficulty. BFL ASICs where supposed to ship when the difficulty was 2 million. Now it's over 15 million and rising, and most BFL customers haven't received their units yet.

“I don't know yet, but it might be a zero sum game.”
I think to make money from mining bitcoins you need “luck” IE buy the right miner –
On paper BFL seem the best bet in June last year – but Avalon and asicminer came out first and made those miners lots of $  (BFL Fu*ked up by being late and 5 time the power ) .  Today it is my belief that  all miner hardware are over priced and if you brought a miner to day with a delivery in September/October – you will not get your money back  because by October the network hash rate will be around 1200 TH about 157,413,798  in difficulty . I also believe that v2 asic will be announced in the next few months for new miners next year - and next year TH will become the new GH – so yes unless you are “lucky” and buy the right miner it could be a zero sum game or even lose money.
IMO
The window of opportunity will be closed in about 3 months for this generation of asic because of high power consumption and high $ per hash .

Terahash is already the new Gigahash.  ;)

*grifters?

A more sure bet is to trade bitcoins. On my first day I made 8 BTC.

I WAS going to make 25btc but then I pulled the trigger a little too early. Damn...

It sure beats mining right? (I am already at the 0.43% tier after only 3 days)

what comes after Tera?

Petahash, someone already registered that domain.

Propaganda

If it gets to the point BFL devices aren't profitable vs the cost of electricity, I'm not sure there's any possible option left to mine for profit.

Would anyone be happy to buy shares on my ASIC?

I'd guarantee 10cents for every share. LOL.

this is exaggerated, earning 1 a day, is respectable, we are talking about $3000 in one months at current price
the problem is the initial investment
if you can mantain  this ratio: 3btc/5ghs/10M difficulty then it is possible to buy the next asic , stay in the racing game and make profit

Thats total bullshit !!!!!!!!!!!

They have done 6 weeks in 3 weeks do the math fuck stick !@

Peta = 1000 x Tera

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix)

Again, if you are a GPU miner going to an ASIC that is going to be acceptable.

I went directly to an ASIC so my views of what is respectable profit is obviously different. I earned 9btc just two days ago from trading alone. From the ASIC about 3 or 4 BTC in that same day. If I were sticking to only one pool it would have been closer to 2 BTC.

I suspect GPU Miners moving into ASICs are going to settle for far less and perceive 1 BTC per day to be a "good" profit. Heck, Jally owners seem to be pretty happy to even get a quarter of a BTC every other day.

everything is relative of course, but still for the majority 1 btc per day is pretty good

yup, i agree