BFL shipped their first single

[infested999]

Yes, 290W @ 60GH for these unbinned chips, but I am a bit more worried about the temps (around 70C).
At the same time the unit is not enclosed, so the two big push-pull fans are not quite efficient in the image.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/dbtgallery.php?do=gallery_image&id=1174&gal=gallery&type=full

Temps are fine 67C for the 60 GH/s.

http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a574/Lab__Rat/IMG_1157_zpsc5d4a791.jpg

I like how you have to rely on some blurry image someone took my accident when filming a video for you specs on what your buying.

A real business makes their information public, the good and the bad. For example Diamond Air makes their test flights public with all the data they can gather listed right there, because they have nothing to hide.

[1714503578]

1714503578

[1714503578]

1714503578

[kendog77]

In my opinion, BFL is decent option compared to their competition at the present moment. I know they've had issues in the past, but they fact that they are cranking out Jalapeno's is very encouraging.

Lets compare them to their competition:

1.) ASICMiner - The price of their blades and usb miners is a complete ripoff that will likely never earn back what the cost in BTC (cost over $400/GHs).

2.) KNCMiner - This company looks encouraging, but they still have a long way to go before they can ship a working product. I'd give them a 50/50 shot of shipping anything in 2013 (Cost of ~22$/GHs).

3.) Avalon - All you can do at the moment is buy the chips and hope you'll be able to turn them into a working miner in a timely fashion (assembled cost and delivery unknown, but Terrahash is selling for ~50$/GHs).

4.) BitFury - I haven't been following this company that closely because I don't feel comfortable ordering anything priced in BTC from Russia.

5.) BTC - Shipping Jalapeno's, huge backlog being worked off at about the rate of 1 month per week, cost of ~$50/GHs.

6.) Buying used ASICs secondhand is also a complete ripoff with prices of Avalons going for ~$500/GHs.

You can either buy 2 USB miners from ASICMiner (600 MHs) or a 7 GHs miner from BFL for 4 BTC. If the BFL Jalapeno ships in the next 2 to 4 months, which I think will happen due to their recent performance, there is a clear winner.

I understand that some folks with early pre-orders are pissed at BFL, but if one does the math and tries to take a truly unbiased view of the current ASICs landscape, BFL is not a bad option...

[infested999]

ASICMiner - The price of their blades and usb miners is a complete ripoff that will likely never earn back what the cost in BTC (cost over $400/GHs).

You can't compare their price to BFL's list price. BFL's price is not a real price, you have to multiply that price by the deliveries/orders ratio to get the true price of a BFL.

If I make a website selling at $1/GH/s and never deliver a single one, that doesn't make mine the best price.

[k9quaint]

In my opinion, BFL is decent option compared to their competition at the present moment. I know they've had issues in the past, but they fact that they are cranking out Jalapeno's is very encouraging.

Lets compare them to their competition:

1.) ASICMiner - The price of their blades and usb miners is a complete ripoff that will likely never earn back what the cost in BTC (cost over $400/GHs).

2.) KNCMiner - This company looks encouraging, but they still have a long way to go before they can ship a working product. I'd give them a 50/50 shot of shipping anything in 2013 (Cost of ~22$/GHs).

3.) Avalon - All you can do at the moment is buy the chips and hope you'll be able to turn them into a working miner in a timely fashion (assembled cost and delivery unknown, but Terrahash is selling for ~50$/GHs).

4.) BitFury - I haven't been following this company that closely because I don't feel comfortable ordering anything priced in BTC from Russia.

5.) BTC - Shipping Jalapeno's, huge backlog being worked off at about the rate of 1 month per week, cost of ~$50/GHs.

6.) Buying used ASICs secondhand is also a complete ripoff with prices of Avalons going for ~$500/GHs.

You can either buy 2 USB miners from ASICMiner (600 MHs) or a 7 GHs miner from BFL for 4 BTC. If the BFL Jalapeno ships in the next 2 to 4 months, which I think will happen due to their recent performance, there is a clear winner.

I understand that some folks with early pre-orders are pissed at BFL, but if one does the math and tries to take a truly unbiased view of the current ASICs landscape, BFL is not a bad option...

There is one problem with your calculations. If BFL delivers their entire backlog, that could add 200-300 TH/s to the hash rate. Tripling the hash rate (even before the Avalon/Klondike wave hits in Aug/Sept/Oct). That would cut returns for BFL single & mini-rig owners by one third. If BFL does not clear their backlog, you cannot get a device ordered today from them until they do. It inserts an large element of uncertainty.

ASICminer is just gouging because they can. Currently, they are the only ASIC company that will deliver an order you place today within a week.

[kendog77]

In my opinion, BFL is decent option compared to their competition at the present moment. I know they've had issues in the past, but they fact that they are cranking out Jalapeno's is very encouraging.

Lets compare them to their competition:

1.) ASICMiner - The price of their blades and usb miners is a complete ripoff that will likely never earn back what the cost in BTC (cost over $400/GHs).

2.) KNCMiner - This company looks encouraging, but they still have a long way to go before they can ship a working product. I'd give them a 50/50 shot of shipping anything in 2013 (Cost of ~22$/GHs).

3.) Avalon - All you can do at the moment is buy the chips and hope you'll be able to turn them into a working miner in a timely fashion (assembled cost and delivery unknown, but Terrahash is selling for ~50$/GHs).

4.) BitFury - I haven't been following this company that closely because I don't feel comfortable ordering anything priced in BTC from Russia.

5.) BTC - Shipping Jalapeno's, huge backlog being worked off at about the rate of 1 month per week, cost of ~$50/GHs.

6.) Buying used ASICs secondhand is also a complete ripoff with prices of Avalons going for ~$500/GHs.

You can either buy 2 USB miners from ASICMiner (600 MHs) or a 7 GHs miner from BFL for 4 BTC. If the BFL Jalapeno ships in the next 2 to 4 months, which I think will happen due to their recent performance, there is a clear winner.

I understand that some folks with early pre-orders are pissed at BFL, but if one does the math and tries to take a truly unbiased view of the current ASICs landscape, BFL is not a bad option...

There is one problem with your calculations. If BFL delivers their entire backlog, that could add 200-300 TH/s to the hash rate. Tripling the hash rate (even before the Avalon/Klondike wave hits in Aug/Sept/Oct). That would cut returns for BFL single & mini-rig owners by one third. If BFL does not clear their backlog, you cannot get a device ordered today from them until they do. It inserts an large element of uncertainty.

ASICminer is just gouging because they can. Currently, they are the only ASIC company that will deliver an order you place today within a week.

BFL devices would still be fairly profitable to operate at 3x current difficulty. I believe you need to get all the way to 10x current difficulty in order for profitability to look iffy.

[Syke]

BFL devices would still be fairly profitable to operate at 3x current difficulty. I believe you need to get all the way to 10x current difficulty in order for profitability to look iffy.

They can only be profitable after they reach break-even point, which is going to be several months (or maybe even never) after the device starts mining.

[kendog77]

BFL devices would still be fairly profitable to operate at 3x current difficulty. I believe you need to get all the way to 10x current difficulty in order for profitability to look iffy.

They can only be profitable after they reach break-even point, which is going to be several months (or maybe even never) after the device starts mining.

I agree, but BFL offers some of the lowest cost/GH devices. If their devices aren't profitable to operate in a couple months, neither will most of the other available ASICs devices.

It does seem like there is a big bubble building in ASIC mining hardware. If the price of BTC doesn't go up, or if the cost of ASIC mining hardware doesn't go down, the future doesn't look that bright for miners.

[maqifrnswa]

In my opinion, BFL is decent option compared to their competition at the present moment. I know they've had issues in the past, but they fact that they are cranking out Jalapeno's is very encouraging.

Lets compare them to their competition:

1.) ASICMiner - The price of their blades and usb miners is a complete ripoff that will likely never earn back what the cost in BTC (cost over $400/GHs).

2.) KNCMiner - This company looks encouraging, but they still have a long way to go before they can ship a working product. I'd give them a 50/50 shot of shipping anything in 2013 (Cost of ~22$/GHs).

3.) Avalon - All you can do at the moment is buy the chips and hope you'll be able to turn them into a working miner in a timely fashion (assembled cost and delivery unknown, but Terrahash is selling for ~50$/GHs).

4.) BitFury - I haven't been following this company that closely because I don't feel comfortable ordering anything priced in BTC from Russia.

5.) BTC - Shipping Jalapeno's, huge backlog being worked off at about the rate of 1 month per week, cost of ~$50/GHs.

6.) Buying used ASICs secondhand is also a complete ripoff with prices of Avalons going for ~$500/GHs.

You can either buy 2 USB miners from ASICMiner (600 MHs) or a 7 GHs miner from BFL for 4 BTC. If the BFL Jalapeno ships in the next 2 to 4 months, which I think will happen due to their recent performance, there is a clear winner.

I understand that some folks with early pre-orders are pissed at BFL, but if one does the math and tries to take a truly unbiased view of the current ASICs landscape, BFL is not a bad option...

There is one problem with your calculations. If BFL delivers their entire backlog, that could add 200-300 TH/s to the hash rate. Tripling the hash rate (even before the Avalon/Klondike wave hits in Aug/Sept/Oct). That would cut returns for BFL single & mini-rig owners by one third. If BFL does not clear their backlog, you cannot get a device ordered today from them until they do. It inserts an large element of uncertainty.

ASICminer is just gouging because they can. Currently, they are the only ASIC company that will deliver an order you place today within a week.

I agree with k9, the only real choice is between ASICminer at $400/GH/s and BFL at $50/GH/s. The gamble everyone has to make is whether the difficulty will go up by a factor of 8 by the time you receive your product. According to the futures market (FWIW, but it's the only place you can put your money where you mouth is https://icbit.se/WebTrade/Account/Futures.aspx), it looks like that will occur after September.

If you think you can get a BFL delivery before September, then order BFL. Otherwise, ASICminer's USB thingys seem to be more profitable.

[PuertoLibre]

In my opinion, BFL is decent option compared to their competition at the present moment. I know they've had issues in the past, but they fact that they are cranking out Jalapeno's is very encouraging.

Lets compare them to their competition:

1.) ASICMiner - The price of their blades and usb miners is a complete ripoff that will likely never earn back what the cost in BTC (cost over $400/GHs).

2.) KNCMiner - This company looks encouraging, but they still have a long way to go before they can ship a working product. I'd give them a 50/50 shot of shipping anything in 2013 (Cost of ~22$/GHs).

3.) Avalon - All you can do at the moment is buy the chips and hope you'll be able to turn them into a working miner in a timely fashion (assembled cost and delivery unknown, but Terrahash is selling for ~50$/GHs).

4.) BitFury - I haven't been following this company that closely because I don't feel comfortable ordering anything priced in BTC from Russia.

5.) BTC - Shipping Jalapeno's, huge backlog being worked off at about the rate of 1 month per week, cost of ~$50/GHs.

6.) Buying used ASICs secondhand is also a complete ripoff with prices of Avalons going for ~$500/GHs.

You can either buy 2 USB miners from ASICMiner (600 MHs) or a 7 GHs miner from BFL for 4 BTC. If the BFL Jalapeno ships in the next 2 to 4 months, which I think will happen due to their recent performance, there is a clear winner.

I understand that some folks with early pre-orders are pissed at BFL, but if one does the math and tries to take a truly unbiased view of the current ASICs landscape, BFL is not a bad option...

There is one problem with your calculations. If BFL delivers their entire backlog, that could add 200-300 TH/s to the hash rate. Tripling the hash rate (even before the Avalon/Klondike wave hits in Aug/Sept/Oct). That would cut returns for BFL single & mini-rig owners by one third. If BFL does not clear their backlog, you cannot get a device ordered today from them until they do. It inserts an large element of uncertainty.

ASICminer is just gouging because they can. Currently, they are the only ASIC company that will deliver an order you place today within a week.

Which is why I am saying....

If you don't have 400GH/s today, tomorrow you will be feeling the pain in a very sharp way.

I assumed the block solving would speed up with the extra ASIC's ...and they have, so the profit for me is up. But...that will only last a short time and then the profits are going to belly flop on concrete.

------------------------

The people who get BFL hardware today are going to have to invest everything they make into a new order. (or accept a meager bitcoin income)

Essentially (unless their order was large) they are going to be working for BFL. Funneling their own profits back into the company in one way or another. (Same is true if they went for Avalon or ASICMiner.)

The only way out of this is to get you hands on 10k right now and dump it on a company that can turn that into a 350Gh/s miner (or two).

If you are late to the rate race eventually it will dawn on people they are going to have a hard time staying in the race. It will be self evident in the near future. ASIC prices must come down or BitCoins must revalue at a very high rate. This remains a possibility.

[Tamerz]

So has anyone gotten an email to send their FPGA in for trade in yet?

[minternj]

As with most successful business ventures. if you dont reinvest into it(expand), then you will get crushed by competition. Same goes with BTC mining.

[PuertoLibre]

In my opinion, BFL is decent option compared to their competition at the present moment. I know they've had issues in the past, but they fact that they are cranking out Jalapeno's is very encouraging.

Lets compare them to their competition:

1.) ASICMiner - The price of their blades and usb miners is a complete ripoff that will likely never earn back what the cost in BTC (cost over $400/GHs).

2.) KNCMiner - This company looks encouraging, but they still have a long way to go before they can ship a working product. I'd give them a 50/50 shot of shipping anything in 2013 (Cost of ~22$/GHs).

3.) Avalon - All you can do at the moment is buy the chips and hope you'll be able to turn them into a working miner in a timely fashion (assembled cost and delivery unknown, but Terrahash is selling for ~50$/GHs).

4.) BitFury - I haven't been following this company that closely because I don't feel comfortable ordering anything priced in BTC from Russia.

5.) BTC - Shipping Jalapeno's, huge backlog being worked off at about the rate of 1 month per week, cost of ~$50/GHs.

6.) Buying used ASICs secondhand is also a complete ripoff with prices of Avalons going for ~$500/GHs.

You can either buy 2 USB miners from ASICMiner (600 MHs) or a 7 GHs miner from BFL for 4 BTC. If the BFL Jalapeno ships in the next 2 to 4 months, which I think will happen due to their recent performance, there is a clear winner.

I understand that some folks with early pre-orders are pissed at BFL, but if one does the math and tries to take a truly unbiased view of the current ASICs landscape, BFL is not a bad option...

There is one problem with your calculations. If BFL delivers their entire backlog, that could add 200-300 TH/s to the hash rate. Tripling the hash rate (even before the Avalon/Klondike wave hits in Aug/Sept/Oct). That would cut returns for BFL single & mini-rig owners by one third. If BFL does not clear their backlog, you cannot get a device ordered today from them until they do. It inserts an large element of uncertainty.

ASICminer is just gouging because they can. Currently, they are the only ASIC company that will deliver an order you place today within a week.

BFL devices would still be fairly profitable to operate at 3x current difficulty. I believe you need to get all the way to 10x current difficulty in order for profitability to look iffy.

Difficulty adjustments were 10 to 14 days, now they are shrinking to 4 to 7 days.

So 3x means you'll get to it in about 12 to 21 days.

At 10x you'll get to it in about 40 to 70 days.

This is all assuming the rate doesn't accelerate...which is exactly what is going to happen with the huge number of ASICs.
Expect less than half that time frame when Singles ship.
-------------

Though, there are alternate scenarios where an ASIC is still profitable if you think about the problem in an ingenius way.

[PuertoLibre]

BFL devices would still be fairly profitable to operate at 3x current difficulty. I believe you need to get all the way to 10x current difficulty in order for profitability to look iffy.

They can only be profitable after they reach break-even point, which is going to be several months (or maybe even never) after the device starts mining.

I agree, but BFL offers some of the lowest cost/GH devices. If their devices aren't profitable to operate in a couple months, neither will most of the other available ASICs devices.

It does seem like there is a big bubble building in ASIC mining hardware. If the price of BTC doesn't go up, or if the cost of ASIC mining hardware doesn't go down, the future doesn't look that bright for miners.

Which is why the rat race is about to occur. Those with money can acquire the large number of Gh/s they need to stay profitable. Those who started late, must use almost all their profits to reinvest into more hardware.

I don't know yet, but it might be a zero sum game.

If it turns out that way, the resell value of ASICs is going to drop way below what the retail price is currently at. So it might all work itself out. I will soon offer a ridiculously low offer for Singles. People will scoff at first, then when they can't make enough, they will take it. LOL.

[Syke]

I agree, but BFL offers some of the lowest cost/GH devices. If their devices aren't profitable to operate in a couple months, neither will most of the other available ASICs devices.

Low cost, but very long wait time, which obscures their true cost. Their true cost is extremely high because of the rising difficulty. BFL ASICs where supposed to ship when the difficulty was 2 million. Now it's over 15 million and rising, and most BFL customers haven't received their units yet.

[hardpick]

“I don't know yet, but it might be a zero sum game.”
I think to make money from mining bitcoins you need “luck” IE buy the right miner –
On paper BFL seem the best bet in June last year – but Avalon and asicminer came out first and made those miners lots of $  (BFL Fu*ked up by being late and 5 time the power ) .  Today it is my belief that  all miner hardware are over priced and if you brought a miner to day with a delivery in September/October – you will not get your money back  because by October the network hash rate will be around 1200 TH about 157,413,798  in difficulty . I also believe that v2 asic will be announced in the next few months for new miners next year - and next year TH will become the new GH – so yes unless you are “lucky” and buy the right miner it could be a zero sum game or even lose money.
IMO
The window of opportunity will be closed in about 3 months for this generation of asic because of high power consumption and high $ per hash .

[k9quaint]

Terahash is already the new Gigahash. 

[cdog]

Mining is a game for grinders and gamblers. Always has been, always will be.

[Bitcoinorama]

Mining is a game for grinders and gamblers. Always has been, always will be.

*grifters?

[PuertoLibre]

A more sure bet is to trade bitcoins. On my first day I made 8 BTC.

I WAS going to make 25btc but then I pulled the trigger a little too early. Damn...

It sure beats mining right? (I am already at the 0.43% tier after only 3 days)

[Trongersoll]

Terahash is already the new Gigahash. 

what comes after Tera?