Bitcoin Forum

I find it rather dangerous to allow altcoins threads in the newbie subforum.
They're there because they don't know what Bitcoin is. And altcoin scammers use this to make them buy some of their scamcoins.
I don't think we can morally leave this kind of threads there...

Example, fastcoin by cheetahx:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=239401.msg2536449#msg2536449
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=237933.msg2517405#msg2517405
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=237753.msg2515348#msg2515348
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=237703.msg2514699#msg2514699

I absolutely agree to this. If you have just found out about cryptocurrency, the whole concept can be pretty confusing.

The purpose of a Newbie area is not only to lock the noobs away from the general discussion so they can't spam it with the reoccurring same question and to filter out trolls.
But also to provide them with an area where they can ask simple general questions and where they can find orientation.

Trying to make use of this confusion to get them into other "concept" is no different from taking advantage of tourists, to sell them f.E. the Brooklyn Bridge.

They will find the alternate section on their own. When they have found some orientation in this new world.

You're right, we were talking about it in the staff forum a few weeks ago. Some of the names are kind of misleading as well.

The root cause of the problem is the newbie restrictions, because of those we can't move the threads where they go and turn it back into a true newbie section, instead it's the "spam your giveaways from your crap coin" forum.

Obvious and easiest solution would be to lift the newbie restrictions on alt currencies and just move them, along with service discussion and some others so newbies don't feel obligated to post in alt currencies. Theymos wants to wait for some improvement to moderation tools before he does that though.

How about adding a subforum to the Newbie forum for alts.

On the other hand that would encourage posting about alts in the first place, which isn't exactly useful.

I said this in one other thread before.

The locals forum does not have newbie restrictions and yet we barely have problems with 1 post trolls and spambots. (I can only speak for the German section, though), We have a beginners & Help board there too and this works quite well.

So judging from this, I don't think the restriction are that necessary.

Besides, the times of SA troll armies rushing in are long gone.

So why not? Just lift the newbie restrictions for the Alt. Coin Board or even completely

Personally, I think all altcoins need to find their own forums.  This is Bitcointalk, not altcointalk or cryptocurrencytalk etc., it's just Bitcointalk.  Some altcoins do have their own forums but most stick around here and advertise to newbies who have no idea what's up or down in the Bitcoin world, the owners pump and dump and then ditch the coin to whoever's left; after all, the 40th Litecoin clone with slightly altered parameters is probably not being created for the good of man, nor does it even hope to compete with Bitcoin, but merely exists for the creator who prays he'll get rich off it if he advertises enough.  To put it bluntly, they're get-rich-quick schemes, and aren't created to service anyone in any way, and I believe they should be treated for what they are.  If an altcoin has an incredible amount of merit for being so very innovative, becoming the possible Bitcoin killer (so to speak), then it will naturally make news and find its way over here, instead of being shoved down newbie throats and then disappearing after a couple of weeks.

This, a thousand times.

Moreover, they are not even Bitcoin clones per se, but rather Litecoin clones. So they should go on litecointalk or whatever.
Really, at least scrypt-coins should be forbidden

Although I find most alt-coins useless, annoying and uninteresting pump & dump schemes I still believe a mutually advantageous outcome can be had.

Why not just charge them, say, a quarterly fee of 5-10 BTC for a sub-board or subforum? If 100 users of an alt-coin would chip in, that would only be 0.05-0.1 BTC per person. If an alt-coin is big enough they will find a way to raise the funds, if it isn't, then there's no reason why they should have their place on this forum. They could elect a Moderator among themselves and maybe Theymos* would just write in the board description that people entering that board do so at their own risk, Bitcointalk Moderators wouldn't have to bother nannying them.

*if you're reading this, what do you think? The forum would raise some more money :)

I'd rather outlaw altcoins than charge them to be here.  The forum doesn't need anymore money.

Whether scrypt altcoins remain allowed or not, please consider making a different theme (even just the color) for the altcoin subforum. That may make newbies realise it's something different out there.

Also, as everybody seem to agree, can theymos give his thoughts about the topic? (Banning altcoin threads in the noob forum)

I agree, newbies should be about Bitcoin only.

I would also like to see a change on this. The altcoin spam(/scam?) in newbie jail is ridiculous.

I notice a lot of attention is being paid to scrypt-based altcoins, but there are many SHA256 altcoins out there too.  Even though it may seem heavy handed, I think the top brass of this forum need to decide what non-Bitcoin cryptocurrencies (if any) can be discussed and then chroot or flat out ban that don't make the grade.  Personally I'm a fan of Litecoin, if for no other reason I don't think Bitcoin should go into the future alone.  Assuming more companies decide to accept Litecoin as a payment option and legal exchanges are created, it would be a great choice for smaller purchases on the Internet and in real life.

The point is not about which altcoin are the more promising. The rule must be precise, not just 'does it looks promising?'.
For example, allowing all SHA256 coins is acceptable, and allowing not a single altcoin is too. Or maybe all the altcoins on mtgox.
Of course this is only my opinion but when I see all the drama 'posts count -> activity', whereas it was necessary, I can't think an altcoin rule would be easily accepted. So the forum better makes the rule clear to understand.

By the way, as there are currently two threads here, can a mod divide this thread in two: altcoins in newbie sub forum, and altcoins in general. I find both interesting and I wouldn't want one to make us forget the other. Until then I rename this thread.

Sock puppet of the developper of richcoin:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=243224.0
His posts:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=133019;sa=showPosts

Just don't allow any service/altcoin advertisement in the newbie jail.
Whoever is serious about their service or altcoin will also wait the 4 hours

Please do this!

Won't be an issue for too much longer, don't worry, will be solved soonish.

I am looking forward to it!

Will the solution be wider than just the newbie forum?

I hope the solution will be a cleansing fire burning brightly in the night while the screams and cries of purged altcoins echo from mountain to valley.

Newbies won't be restricted to that board in the future, so there will be no need for alt coins/services there.

Hurray!

May I suggest that you rename the Newbie Board to something like "Beginner & Support" so it looses the Newbie Jail stench?

Otherwise we will have the same reoccurring questions multiple times a day in the Bitcoin Discussion Board.

Strongly agreed. If an alt-coin discussion is relevant to Bitcoin, that discussion will find its way in a Bitcoin related subforum (Developments & Technical Discussion, Bitcoin Discussion, etc.)... While the pump&dump schemes should have their place in a dedicated external forum, "altcointalk.org" or "scamcointalk.org" or whatever.

That's a good idea. I do plan to still move particularly ignorant or repetitive threads there. There won't be any need to be as tolerant of spam there than the rest of the forum so should be more relevant.

Is that a good idea?

Here's a (partial) list of new spambots registered in the last 8 hours that just can't do their job because of newbie restrictions:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=133108
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=133093
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=133087
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=133081
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=133076
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=133073
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=133067
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=133060
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=133059
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=133052
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=133032
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=133044
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=133031
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=133030

I think (hope) that there will be some other restrictions like 1 post max per hour

That seems fair. Maybe make the first (or first five) post(s) of Newbies have to be manually approved, then upgrade them to Jr. Member? It might put extra load on mods, but a quick glance at a post should tell whether it is spam or not.

When a spambot is banned, their IP address will be marked as suspicious. Further registrations from that IP will require a small fee (~$0.50). Proxies and heavily-abused ranges of IP addresses will likewise be marked as suspicious.

Interesting, how is this fee enforced?

After registration, the forum will give them an address and they'll have to pay. They won't be able to post until they pay. They will be able to use their watchlist, etc.

This just seemed like the easiest way to establish a significant proof-of-work. I thought about having people solve a bunch of CAPTCHAs, but why should I do that when the free bitcoin sites are doing it already? I'll adjust the amount so it'll take someone with zero bitcoins only a few days to gather the bitcoins from faucet sites, and I'll link to some of these sites.

Maybe I'll also allow posting after mod post approval. That's a more difficult feature to add, though.

Agree with this. I came here with prior knowledge about what cryptocurrency is from another site where it could be traded, but I know a lot of people come here with no idea.

Wouldn't this be a problem for people connecting through Tor? Privacy is freedom.

i agree newbies can't handle the deviousness of new cryptos' boilerplate let's protect the sheeple..thanks

It won't be a problem if they pay the $0.50. Currently, Tor users need to bypass the Tor registration ban in some way if they want to register. This will be an improvement.

Just ban the altcoins altogether! The whole forum is getting bloated.

Warn people who don't put their discussions in Alternative Cryptocurrencies; people can always ignore that board.

Only other coin worth talking about is litecoin, the rest are scams and ones that won't go anywhere.

Yes, now I see it, is in fact an improvement for those using Tor. I like the idea, plus is another place where to spend Bitcoins :)

Ban scrypt altcoins, they belong to litecointalk

   Are you kidding? Namecoin is SHA256, it is the first altcoin, it is the only innovative one and yet you want to ban it?

That seems very fair, especially if it's fully automatic like it seems to be. Just wondering, but what happens to these funds? Are they treated as donations, or advertisement revenue, etc?


Tor can be abused heavily, though. You can't just remove the fee for Tor addresses.

Is there any ETA for the new newbies rules?

Bump
Are they already applied?

Anyway, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=256234.0

Any news on this?

Any update?

Alt-coin threads are being moved out of the newbie section now.  Please report them if you see them.

Finally!

Should we also report advertising of other Kind in the newbie jail? (would seem a bit hypocritically if only alt coins would be moved, but the newest dice game or "investment" is allowed to stay)

Please do report those as well!  The whole goal with this change is to get rid of spam (giveaways) and anything that's trying to take advantage of people new to bitcoin (gambling/investment).

yay! Thank you! :)

Great!

I did report quite some threads yesterday, but it seems like most weren't confirmed from mods, was I going too far?
Imo those all shouldn't be in newbie jail.

Some were good, some I wasn't sure.

That doesn't really tell me what I should report and what not.

I'm pretty sure threads like this one aren't good: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251957.0
Even if nobody falls for it, they leave a bad impression.
In my opinion it would be best to ban every unknown service or trade offer there, whoever wants to advertise his business should have enough initiative to fullfill the requirements to leave newbie jail or request whitelisting.
(mentioning of well known services like bitstamp and co to help newbies should still be okey obviously)

That thread is obviously spam, and should have been dealt with as such long ago. Maybe because it's gotten traction now they've decided to leave it, but it's hard to set the right tone when enforcement is inconsistent.

I run www.altcointalk.co.uk and would happily work with bitcointalk to help keep it clear from altcoins and my forum free from bitcoin :)