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Title: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: morpheus on July 08, 2011, 01:07:34 PM I'm starting a development topic for Dark Exchange here. The original post was in the Marketplace section, but a large number of issues have popped up and I don't think it's appropriate to discuss them there.
Here is the original thread: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=26063.0 Quote TL;DR: https://github.com/macourtney/Dark-Exchange You read that right! Dark Exchange is a 100% decentralized p2p exchange. No more worrying about exchange websites going down or locking your account. You now have complete control of your bitcoin exchanges and accounts. Because Dark Exchange is decentralized, it can't work like Mt Gox or Trade Hill. Instead, it works more like bitcoin-otc and Bitcoin Market. You post offers and others accept them, or you can search all of the offers on the network and select the one you want. Dark Exchange will walk you through the process of completing a trade. Advantages: 1. Dark Exchange can never be shutdown by anyone (including me) for any reason. As long as there are at least two nodes on the network, the exchange is up and running. (Actually this is more of a goal than a feature at this point. Though I tried to program it this way, I'm not sure if it will really stand up to real world use yet. But, that's why it's called Beta.) 2. No bitcoins or other money is held on a central server. You have complete control over your money the entire time. 3. Virtually all currencies and payment methods are supported. Any currencies or payment methods not already included can be added quickly. 4. No commissions. Free to use. 5. Open source. All source code for Dark Exchange can be found at: https://github.com/macourtney/Dark-Exchange 6. Runs on the I2P network. All connections are end to end encrypted, and privacy is under your control. Dark Exchange is in Beta right now. Though I've run as many tests as I can think of on it, I'm sure it won't work exactly as advertised right now. I'm looking for intrepid people interested in helping me test Dark Exchange by using it. All information on how to to download, install and use Dark Exchange can be found on the Dark Exchange wiki: https://github.com/macourtney/Dark-Exchange/wiki If you have any troubles installing or using the exchange, let me know so I can start entering in issues to make Dark Exchange better. And since it's the 4th.. Let's all declare independence from centralization with Dark Exchange! Edit: I've released another version of Dark Exchange: https://github.com/macourtney/Dark-Exchange/downloads The latest version is a full 1.0.0 release (out of beta). I still have a lot of work to do on it, but I wanted to stop incrementing the beta number and start using the preferred snapshot and multilevel version numbers. I'll add more info on the new release in a reply later in this thread. Edit 2011-7-16 I've released another version (v1.1.1) of Dark Exchange. Edit 2011-8-7 I've released another version (v1.2.0) of Dark Exchange. Title: Re: [BETA] Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: wumpus on July 08, 2011, 01:26:19 PM Very interesting development, will be following this :)
Title: Re: [BETA] Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: bitfreak! on July 08, 2011, 01:28:15 PM I really like the idea of a decentralized exchange, it compliments the Bitcoin project nicely. There is way too much centralization going on imo, with exchanges like Mt. Gox and mining pools like DeepBit, both of which have crashed at least once now. I assume it's based on a web of trust or something similar to the #bitcoin-otc?
Title: Re: [BETA] Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: genjix on July 08, 2011, 01:40:07 PM Is this a web of trust (exchange part) running over i2p (decentralised)?
Bad news: web of trust systems don't scale. Title: Re: [BETA] Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: Ryland R. Taylor-Almanza on July 08, 2011, 02:08:17 PM Watching this.
Title: Re: [BETA] Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: morpheus on July 08, 2011, 06:32:01 PM Is this a web of trust (exchange part) running over i2p (decentralised)? Bad news: web of trust systems don't scale. Dark Exchange is not a web of trust system. However, we planning on implementing a web of trust like system in it. I say "like" since as you've mentioned, web of trust systems don't scale. Thus, it will be something less than a full web of trust, but something you can use to get an idea of who you may be able to trust. Dark Exchange is a "java" application (written in Clojure) which uses the I2P network to connect peer to peer. We're currently having major issues with the nodes not finding each other. I just finished making the node notification system even more aggressive today. I hope it will finally solve the remaining issues. However, the implementation won't scale and will have to be adjusted in the future. I haven't released the new code yet as I haven't done enough testing. I'll hopefully have some time tonight to get it out. Title: Re: [BETA] Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: genjix on July 08, 2011, 11:12:58 PM How do you exchange coins to other people? Interested how the algorithm works.
Do you have to trust the person you're exchanging with? How does it ensure that Barry doesn't steal Linda's funds after she sends first? Title: Re: [BETA] Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: morpheus on July 09, 2011, 12:06:52 AM How do you exchange coins to other people? Interested how the algorithm works. Do you have to trust the person you're exchanging with? How does it ensure that Barry doesn't steal Linda's funds after she sends first? There isn't a way to to ensure Barry doesn't steal Linda's funds after she sends first. However, When both Linda and Barry created their accounts, they also created a public and private key pair. All data sent between nodes is signed, so Linda knows Barry is really the one who made the offer in the first place. And Barry knows Linda is really the one who accepted the offer. After that, Linda and Barry must trust each other to complete the trade and not run off with each others funds. The public keys are visible in the application, so it's possible to recognize someone by their name and public key. In the future, I plan to implement a trust system which will allow Linda and Barry to rate how much they trust each other. They can then use that system determine how much they are willing to risk in a trade. With the trust system, Linda may also be able to tell how much she is willing to trust Steve based on Barry's trust rating for Steve. The specific algorithm for making a trade is: 1. Barry creates an offer. (An offer is created in Dark Exchange) 2. Linda does a search and finds Barry's offer. She then accepts the offer. (A trade is created in Dark Exchange) 3. Barry verifies Linda is someone he wants to trade with, and confirms the trade. 4. Linda sends the payment, then lets Barry know she sent the payment by opening the trade and pressing the Payment Sent button. (updates the trade as payment sent.) 5. Barry verifies Linda sent the payment and updates the trade as payment received. 6. Barry sends his payment to linda, and updates the trade as payment sent. 7. Linda verifies she has received the payment from Barry and updates the trade as payment received. 8. The trade is complete, and it closed. This is currently a very manual process, but I hope to integrate Dark Exchange better with Bitcoin and services like Dwolla to hopefully make some of the updates automatic. Title: Re: [BETA] Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: amincd on July 09, 2011, 03:29:36 AM This is very very cool.
I don't know if this is the right place to be proposing this, but how bout using ownership of bitcoins as a proxy for trustworthiness. So the Dark Exchange node signs its Dark Exchange public key, a long with bitcoin addresses that it claims to have under its control, with the bitcoin private keys that are in the local bitcoin wallet file, and then other nodes check to verify if the ownership claim is valid and assess how many bitcoins the owner of the Dark Exchange node has. The greater the quantity of coins, and the longer those coins have been at the addresses controlled by the Dark Exchange node owner, the higher the assurance that other nodes have of the person not being a scammer, since the scammer would have to sacrifice permanently spoiling a hard to acquire source of credibility (long term ownership over bitcoins) to do a scam. It would also prevent spamming of the network with a bunch of sock-puppet nodes that could under-mine any web of trust, because it would be expensive for a scammer to produce credible sock puppets (as it would require each having ownership for a significant amount of time over a significant number of bitcoins). Title: Re: [BETA] Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: morpheus on July 10, 2011, 03:13:15 PM I've uploaded Beta 3 with more aggressive attempts to download all other destinations in the network. My testing suggests everyone should quickly get all of the destinations in the system.
You can download Beta 3 from: https://github.com/macourtney/Dark-Exchange/downloads Title: Re: [BETA] Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: Atom on July 12, 2011, 03:49:09 AM This is very very cool. This is a great idea, although it means you basically need to have bitcoins for anyone to want to trade you bitcoins which will need to be thought about and overcome. Maybe it utilizes a moving average to determine a trustworthy level of bitcoin ownership, averaging wallet contents and throwing out the outliers then using a simple under/over and call everything above the bottom 30% trustworthy. That would scale to any size community and be self-adjusting once you got the ratios down.I don't know if this is the right place to be proposing this, but how bout using ownership of bitcoins as a proxy for trustworthiness. So the Dark Exchange node signs its Dark Exchange public key, a long with bitcoin addresses that it claims to have under its control, with the bitcoin private keys that are in the local bitcoin wallet file, and then other nodes check to verify if the ownership claim is valid and assess how many bitcoins the owner of the Dark Exchange node has. The greater the quantity of coins, and the longer those coins have been at the addresses controlled by the Dark Exchange node owner, the higher the assurance that other nodes have of the person not being a scammer, since the scammer would have to sacrifice permanently spoiling a hard to acquire source of credibility (long term ownership over bitcoins) to do a scam. It would also prevent spamming of the network with a bunch of sock-puppet nodes that could under-mine any web of trust, because it would be expensive for a scammer to produce credible sock puppets (as it would require each having ownership for a significant amount of time over a significant number of bitcoins). @Morpheus - Kudos on the project, and let us know if we can help! Any interest in joining us on BitTalk to talk more about the project? We're recording the next episode tomorrow, so drop me a PM if interested. Title: Re: [BETA] Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: rizzn on July 16, 2011, 08:25:12 AM As this project gains more adoption, I'd love to see it integrated into a wallet as part of an all in one solution.
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: morpheus on July 16, 2011, 10:16:38 PM I just released a new version of Dark Exchange: https://github.com/macourtney/Dark-Exchange/downloads
I also added a page to wiki describing how to upgrade to newer versions: https://github.com/macourtney/Dark-Exchange/wiki/Upgrading-Dark-Exchange New for this release: Notifications are more aggressive which means more nodes should connect to the network faster. Unfortunately this method won't scale, but it seems to be necessary to get the network up and running. I'll have to rework the algorithm as the network grows. Most of the buttons in Dark Exchange will now run their actions (when appropriate) outside the event thread. This means the program should seem much more responsive. Searches can be cancelled and the search button now switches to a cancel button while in the middle of a search. This should also make it easier to see when Dark Exchange is in the middle of a search. Before, there was no way to tell. I've added two new columns to the search table and offers table. They display the wants amount divided by the has amount, and the has amount divided by the wants amount. This should allow you to see the price you're asking for or someone is offering. For example, if you enter that you have 2 bitcoin and you want $27.50, the wants / has column would read 13.75, your asking price for the bitcoin. 'Root' peer issue: I noticed the 'root' peer had shut down. The root node is the only destination listed in the peers.txt file in your resources directory. It is the first and currently, only destination new installs query to connect to the network. I restarted it and anybody new should be able to connect to the network now. If you could not connect before, try it now. Also, if you plan to run Dark Exchange pretty much constantly, let me know and I'll add your destination to the peers.txt file. Your help will give new nodes more options when connecting to the network. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: sunyag on July 16, 2011, 11:57:54 PM ...just really excellent, Morpheus. This is a game changer for money changing, and it's one of the most important projects underway.
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: rizzn on July 17, 2011, 12:04:45 AM The directory structure seems to be completely different, and the run.bat file doesn't execute without errors. Am I doing something really wrong? Previous version opened up fine.
Running Java on Windows Vista. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: morpheus on July 17, 2011, 12:31:29 AM The directory structure seems to be completely different, and the run.bat file doesn't execute without errors. Am I doing something really wrong? Previous version opened up fine. Running Java on Windows Vista. Did you download the tar under Download Packages or under Download Tags? Download Packages is the official release. The others are bundles of the git repository at specific tags. They won't work if you try to install them. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: hashcoin on July 17, 2011, 01:06:34 AM FYI you eliminate the trust needed when both things being traded are crypto-items (eg bitcoin for namecoin)
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?action=printpage;topic=22581.0 Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: Atom on July 17, 2011, 01:10:21 AM Morpheus,
Thanks for being on episode 3 of BitTalk! You're interview is the first out the gate, and the bitcoin.org forum episode thread is here (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=29540.0) Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: philipk on July 17, 2011, 06:30:33 PM Hey I like this but think it has more potential for selling items.
You could see what classifieds are online in your country & then have user ratings to create a trust system. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: blap on July 21, 2011, 02:48:48 AM The directory structure seems to be completely different, and the run.bat file doesn't execute without errors. Am I doing something really wrong? Previous version opened up fine. Running Java on Windows Vista. Did you download the tar under Download Packages or under Download Tags? Download Packages is the official release. The others are bundles of the git repository at specific tags. They won't work if you try to install them. Did not run in Windows 7 ultimate or home, PT-BR, 64bit. The run.bat do not recognize java or something like this in the directory structure or whatever... I tested the last java (32 bits, Version 6 Update 26), I2P (I2P 0.8.7) and D.E. in Download Packages (Uploaded July 16, 2011). Code: C:\Users\x\Desktop\de>run.bat Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: morpheus on July 21, 2011, 02:55:48 AM ... Did not run in Windows 7 ultimate or home, PT-BR, 64bit. The run.bat do not recognize java or something like this in the directory structure or whatever... I tested the last java (32 bits, Version 6 Update 26), I2P (I2P 0.8.7) and D.E. in Download Packages (Uploaded July 16, 2011). Code: C:\Users\x\Desktop\de>run.bat Try typing just "java -version" at your command prompt. It looks like java is not installed, or is not on the path. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: blap on July 21, 2011, 12:26:18 PM Try typing just "java -version" at your command prompt. It looks like java is not installed, or is not on the path. Ok, I found the error... I need to use java 64bit for my system, not the 32... thanks! =) Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: morpheus on July 24, 2011, 03:26:25 PM I've released another version of Dark Exchange. The latest version is 1.1.1 and can be downloaded from: https://github.com/macourtney/Dark-Exchange/downloads
This release included some major changes to identities with the goal of connecting people to start trading. --- New in this release: Added a column to the identities table to show which identities are currently online. However, due to the nature of the p2p network, "is online" is only a best guess right now. If you're not sure, viewing the identity will force Dark Exchange to update the "is online" status. You can now view identities. This allows you to see more details of the identity including all of their open offers. I'm hoping this will help people find trading partners much faster. To view an identity, go to the identity tab, select an identity and click the view button (or double click on the identity). You can only see offers from identities which are online. I've added another destination to the peers.txt file and the peers tab shows "yes" when a peer has been notified or blank if not. You can now just press enter after entering your password in the login screen (before you had to tab over to the login button and press the space bar). --- Both the identities DarkExchange and Morpheus should be online at all times. If DarkExchange is ever down, let me know ASAP. It's having problems sometimes and I'm not sure what's going on. DarkExchange is the identity on the initial p2p node which everyone connects to. If it goes down, new nodes may not be able to connect to the network. Morpheus will likely be up and down sometimes since it is my laptop and I have to take it down when I move around. I may have trouble keeping up with my weekly release schedule next weekend as I will be out of town. I only plan to make cosmetic changes with no major new features for the next release. Hopefully, I'll be able to get them in and make a release before I leave. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: wegotpickles on July 24, 2011, 11:53:18 PM I've released another version of Dark Exchange. Great release ;DQuote Both the identities DarkExchange and Morpheus should be online at all times. If DarkExchange is ever down, let me know ASAP. It's having problems sometimes and I'm not sure what's going on. DarkExchange is the identity on the initial p2p node which everyone connects to. If it goes down, new nodes may not be able to connect to the network. Is it important that THAT node be the first, or will entering the destination of any online node work (so long as said node has been online long enough to collect the destinations of other nodes before the initial node went down)?Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: morpheus on July 25, 2011, 12:38:38 AM Is it important that THAT node be the first, or will entering the destination of any online node work (so long as said node has been online long enough to collect the destinations of other nodes before the initial node went down)? As long as you can find any node on the network which has all of the other destinations, it will work. You can add other destinations on the Peer tab. BTW, I see you! On the dark exchange. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: bluefirecorp on July 25, 2011, 01:19:45 AM Try typing just "java -version" at your command prompt. It looks like java is not installed, or is not on the path. Ok, I found the error... I need to use java 64bit for my system, not the 32... thanks! =) Actually, you just have to set your environmental values. Type 'environment' in your start menu, click on 'Edit System environmental' (or something) Make sure the "Advanced" tab is selected, click on Environmental Variables. In the system variables, scroll down to PATH. Click on PATH and hit the 'edit' button. Locate your java.exe in your java folder (mine is: C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jre6\bin). Add a ";" and copy and paste the location (C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jre6\bin) into the box. Open a new CMD and type "java -version" to check that it worked. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jackjack on July 25, 2011, 02:01:04 AM Could you explain how to compile the git project?
Because Java is not exactly the kind of stuff i'm used to compile ;D Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: morpheus on July 25, 2011, 02:42:41 PM Could you explain how to compile the git project? Because Java is not exactly the kind of stuff i'm used to compile ;D First, Dark Exchange is not written in Java, but in Clojure (http://clojure.org/). Because it's written in Clojure, there is a different method of "compiling" Dark Exchange than the usual java program. You will need to download and install the JDK (not just the JRE). Then download and install Leiningen (https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen). There isn't an installer for Leiningen. You'll have to copy the Leiningen script into some directory on your path then run "lein install". Everything you need to know about installation is on the Leiningen github project page. Once you have everything installed, you can then run "lein deps, install" from your clone of the Dark-Exchange project. That will download all of the dependencies, create a jar file, and install the jar in the Leiningen repository. To create a tar, simply use the command "lein tar". If you want to make changes to Dark-Exchange and run it in development mode, you can run "lein run :development" or simply "lein run :dev". Since Clojure is a scripting language, you can run it in development mode without the need to recompile it each time. If you extracted the tar and want to run that instance of Dark Exchange in development mode, you can use "run.bat -mode development" or "run.sh -mode development". Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jackjack on July 25, 2011, 03:25:30 PM Thanks!
How many people are using Dark Exchange? Edit: Morpheus, you should modify your post for the next people willing to install lein, it's 'lein self-install' to install it, not 'lein install' Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: MrWizard on July 25, 2011, 04:10:19 PM Thanks! Apparently no one but me is using Dark Exchange. ;)How many people are using Dark Exchange? Edit: Morpheus, you should modify your post for the next people willing to install lein, it's 'lein self-install' to install it, not 'lein install' Well if they are I don't see anyone in the Identity or Peer tabs. I2P is running. Network: OK. Peers Active: 20/48. Dark Exchange 1.1.1 installed. No results in Search tab either. Any ideas?? Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jackjack on July 25, 2011, 04:15:08 PM I see 14 peers, DarkExchange as the only identity, but nothing in Search tab neither
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: morpheus on July 25, 2011, 05:23:04 PM I see 14 peers, DarkExchange as the only identity, but nothing in Search tab neither I have 15 peers, but only 7 have been notified. In identities, I have 9. With only DarkExchange and wegotpickles shown as online. If you're online, then you should also see me, morpheus. The first time you start Dark Exchange it will use the peers.txt file to try to download all peers in the network. You need to leave Dark Exchange running for at least 10 minutes to be sure it has connected to the network. If you don't see 15 peers after 10 minutes, you may have to restart Dark Exchange or add peers manually. After all of the peers are downloaded, each peer is queried for identities. Any identity it finds is added to the identity tab. If the identity is online, it is marked as online. If not then it is not. Every time you restart Dark Exchange it runs through all of the peers looking for new identities and marking identities as online. If someone drops offline while you're still online, then the "is online" column will not be updated until you try to view their identity or restart Dark Exchange. It still sounds like people are having trouble connecting. I'll have to do more research on better ways to connect everyone. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: MrWizard on July 25, 2011, 06:07:29 PM I have run Dark Exchange for 1 hour +. I have also restarted it a few times. At no time did it load peers from peers.txt into the Peer tab.
I manually added the two peers in peers.txt and i can now see Morpheus in the Identity tab. It has been 15+ minutes and no new peers have been added to the Peer tab. Morpheus, if you can see me "BitcoinBillionaire" I guess we have partial success. :) P.S. Could you timestamp the log entries in production.log? It would help a bit to know when events occurred. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: morpheus on July 25, 2011, 06:10:45 PM I have run Dark Exchange for 1 hour +. I have also restarted it a few times. At no time did it load peers from peers.txt into the Peer tab. I manually added the two peers in peers.txt and i can now see Morpheus in the Identity tab. It has been 15+ minutes and no new peers have been added to the Peer tab. Morpheus, if you can see me "BitcoinBillionaire" I guess we have partial success. :) P.S. Could you timestamp the log entries in production.log? It would help a bit to know when events occurred. Yes, I see BitcoinBillionare and now jackjack also. I don't know why it wasn't loading peers.txt. Was there an exception in the log? I've added an issue to add timestamps to the log. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jackjack on July 25, 2011, 06:11:45 PM I just restarted it and it's a bit better: I see you, DarkExchange and wegotpickles in Identities (all online), and 16 peers with only 4 notified (the '1' seems to be meaning 'Newly notified', right?)
Got a new question: where are the accounts? I'd really like to import my account into my dev repo instead of creating a new one I even 'find | xargs grep''d, but nothing... Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: morpheus on July 25, 2011, 06:13:24 PM I just restarted it and it's a bit better: I see you, DE and wegotpickles in Identities (all online), and 16 peers with only 4 notified (the '1' seems to be meaning 'Newly notified', right?) Yes, the '1' means notified. It should say 'yes', but it's a display bug which will be fixed in the next release. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jackjack on July 25, 2011, 06:22:19 PM Little bump, obviously I edited after you answered
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: morpheus on July 25, 2011, 06:24:51 PM Got a new question: where are the accounts? I'd really like to import my account into my dev repo instead of creating a new one I even 'find | xargs grep''d, but nothing... Your account is held in a database in the data directory where your Dark Exchange is installed. If you want move it over to your dev repo, simply copy the entire data directory. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: MrWizard on July 25, 2011, 06:34:39 PM Did a restart hoping for some luck. No luck though - no new peers.
Here is what was added to my production.log on start-up: INFO [config.db-config]: Environment: :production DEBUG [darkexchange.database.h2]: Executing query: ["SELECT * FROM schema_info LIMIT 1"] INFO [darkexchange.database.migrate]: schema_info exists DEBUG [darkexchange.database.h2]: Executing query: ["SELECT * FROM schema_info LIMIT 1"] INFO [drift.runner]: Current database version: 9 INFO [drift.runner]: Updating to version: 9 INFO [drift.runner]: No changes were made to the database. INFO [darkexchange.model.server]: Initializing server. INFO [darkexchange.model.listeners.listener-init]: Adding listeners. INFO [darkexchange.model.actions.action-init]: Adding actions. INFO [darkexchange.model.peer]: Downloading peers in background. INFO [darkexchange.model.peer]: loading peers After 15 minutes no new entries were added. Hope this helps. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: Equanimous on July 25, 2011, 06:38:25 PM I was think if you could use ideas from ripple-pay to overcome the trust issue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySzqM5dpF7s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyiyUjPMs-g Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jackjack on July 25, 2011, 06:39:27 PM Got a new question: where are the accounts? I'd really like to import my account into my dev repo instead of creating a new one I even 'find | xargs grep''d, but nothing... Your account is held in a database in the data directory where your Dark Exchange is installed. If you want move it over to your dev repo, simply copy the entire data directory. Well, no after all, without the dev flag I got that error: See below Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: morpheus on July 25, 2011, 06:41:49 PM Got a new question: where are the accounts? I'd really like to import my account into my dev repo instead of creating a new one I even 'find | xargs grep''d, but nothing... Your account is held in a database in the data directory where your Dark Exchange is installed. If you want move it over to your dev repo, simply copy the entire data directory. That means you're running on the real network instead of the development network. It should be fine, but you could cause exceptions or have issues when you start changing things. It should have worked with the dev flag also. Strange. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jackjack on July 25, 2011, 06:51:20 PM I edited again, sorry for that (I won't edit anymore ;) )
Actually there are 2 different errors (when no dev flag), when I hit the Login button If the password is correct: Code: ERROR [darkexchange.uncaught-exception-handler]: Uncaught Exception: If not: Code: ERROR [darkexchange.uncaught-exception-handler]: Uncaught Exception: Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jackjack on July 25, 2011, 06:57:44 PM It should have worked with the dev flag also. Strange. In the data dir there are dark_exchange_development.(h2|trace).db and dark_exchange_production.(h2|trace).db, si finally it's not that strange I believeTitle: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: morpheus on July 25, 2011, 07:06:18 PM It should have worked with the dev flag also. Strange. In the data dir there are dark_exchange_development.(h2|trace).db and dark_exchange_production.(h2|trace).db, si finally it's not that strange I believeDuh, the development and production databases are separate. :) For some reason, I thought it would use the same database. That still doesn't explain the exceptions you're getting. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jackjack on July 26, 2011, 03:07:12 AM I think I'll create a new account, it's not that important
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: riceberry on July 26, 2011, 05:27:04 AM interesting will watch this development
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jtimon on July 26, 2011, 06:31:31 AM Hi, guys, I had an idea for a decentralized exchange (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=31643.0).
It only works for chain crypto-currencies, but you don't need to trust anybody to make a exchange. Title: Re: [BETA] Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: Shevek on July 26, 2011, 11:46:48 AM Perhaps it's a dummy question, but I don't really see the question.
4. Linda sends the payment, (...) 6. Barry sends his payment to linda, And... how Linda and Barry send fiat money through the Dark Exchange (at least, one of both sends fiat money)!!?? Do they need a central authority bank, a paypal account...? If exchange of fiat money through p2p-network is solved... why do we need bitcoin? Title: Re: [BETA] Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jtimon on July 26, 2011, 11:51:37 AM Perhaps it's a dummy question, but I don't really see the question. 4. Linda sends the payment, (...) 6. Barry sends his payment to linda, And... how Linda and Barry send fiat money through the Dark Exchange (at least, one of both sends fiat money)!!?? Do they need a central authority bank, a paypal account...? If exchange of fiat money through p2p-network is solved... why do we need bitcoin? Yes you need a central authority to send national currencies (I would say bitcoin is also fiat) through the internet. I think in this case the central authority (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_money#Centralised_systems) is this: http://www.libertyreserve.com/ Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jackjack on July 26, 2011, 12:05:12 PM Exchange of fiat money is not solved through p2p-network, here p2p really stands for peer to peer
Ie you send your bitcoins (or even a fiat currency) and the other person sends you what you buy/sell, nothing else involved like in traditional currency exchanges Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jtimon on July 26, 2011, 12:20:54 PM Exchange of fiat money is not solved through p2p-network, here p2p really stands for peer to peer Ie you send your bitcoins (or even a fiat currency) and the other person sends you what you buy/sell, nothing else involved like in traditional currency exchanges I see, since the exchange doesn't warranty that the trade is atomic, it may not be even through the internet. The two users will decide. Have you seen my proposal for an anonymous almost-atomic exchange between bitcoin-like currencies? If one of them adapts its code (bitcoin or namecoin), it could be done atomically. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: Shevek on July 26, 2011, 01:47:36 PM Thanks jtimon % jackjack
Exchange of fiat money is not solved through p2p-network, here p2p really stands for peer to peer So the p2p-network handles only the bids and serves the personal contacts; pays are done out of the box. Do I understand? The key of my confusion is that I didn't know a word of services like "libertyreserve"... Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: morpheus on July 26, 2011, 02:57:31 PM So the p2p-network handles only the bids and serves the personal contacts; pays are done out of the box. Do I understand? Yes, this is correct. Though, it also walks you through the trade process. The key of my confusion is that I didn't know a word of services like "libertyreserve"... Actually, Dark Exchange does not currently support Liberty Reserve (though I can easily add it if there is interest). You can use Dwolla to transfer USD. You can learn more about Dwolla at: https://www.dwolla.com/default.aspx Otherwise, you have the option of sending fiat money through the mail. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jackjack on July 26, 2011, 03:04:37 PM First of all, all I say is what I understood about this project, don't take it as 100% true until Morpheus confirms it ;)
Exchange of fiat money is not solved through p2p-network, here p2p really stands for peer to peer Ie you send your bitcoins (or even a fiat currency) and the other person sends you what you buy/sell, nothing else involved like in traditional currency exchanges I see, since the exchange doesn't warranty that the trade is atomic, it may not be even through the internet. The two users will decide. Have you seen my proposal for an anonymous almost-atomic exchange between bitcoin-like currencies? If one of them adapts its code (bitcoin or namecoin), it could be done atomically. Thanks jtimon % jackjack ExactlyExchange of fiat money is not solved through p2p-network, here p2p really stands for peer to peer So the p2p-network handles only the bids and serves the personal contacts; pays are done out of the box. Do I understand? The key of my confusion is that I didn't know a word of services like "libertyreserve"... I don't know libertyreserve either, for now the choices in Dark Exchange are 'Cash by mail' and 'Check or money order by mail', but Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: joulesbeef on July 26, 2011, 03:16:17 PM Do I need ports forwarded.. or something?
Runs fine... or seems to, but i never get any peers or anything.. been running for a couple of hours now. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jtimon on July 26, 2011, 07:08:28 PM Atomic means that the two sub-transactions (BTC to one place, USD to another) happen at the same time.
It doesn't have to be literally at the same time, but they happen both or none of them. Normally you need a third party to escrow the payments but I have a proposal to avoid that in some cases (https://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=31643.0). I guessed it use LR because some web exchanges like mtgox, BTCex or bitcoin central (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=2585.0) use it. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: morpheus on July 26, 2011, 07:13:11 PM Do I need ports forwarded.. or something? Runs fine... or seems to, but i never get any peers or anything.. been running for a couple of hours now. Did you make sure I2P is running properly? You can do that through your browser using the link: http://127.0.0.1:7657/index.jsp If that seems to be up and running properly, you can try restarting Dark Exchange. Otherwise, I'm not sure what to do. I have an idea to make Dark Exchange even more aggressive with connecting to peers, but it will have to wait a couple weeks before I can get to it. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: morpheus on July 26, 2011, 07:15:45 PM Atomic means that the two sub-transactions (BTC to one place, USD to another) happen at the same time. It doesn't have to be literally at the same time, but they happen both or none of them. Normally you need a third party to escrow the payments but I have a proposal to avoid that in some cases (https://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=31643.0). I guessed it use LR because some web exchanges like mtgox, BTCex or bitcoin central (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=2585.0) use it. It may be possible to do atomic transactions with purely digital currencies. I don't think it would be possible with fiat. Either way, you can still use Dark Exchange with these methods. It's just not integrated in any meaningful way. Also, Dark Exchange does not currently use Liberty Reserve. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jackjack on July 26, 2011, 07:39:31 PM It would be nice to have checkboxes instead of the current one-choice form for the transfer manner
And the error I posted above is also thrown when I try to create a new account Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jtimon on July 27, 2011, 06:30:38 AM It may be possible to do atomic transactions with purely digital currencies. I don't think it would be possible with fiat. Either way, you can still use Dark Exchange with these methods. It's just not integrated in any meaningful way. No, my proposal it's only for bitcoin-like currencies, not even LR or dwolla. It probably could be integrated with dark exchange in the same client. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: morpheus on July 27, 2011, 04:54:06 PM It would be nice to have checkboxes instead of the current one-choice form for the transfer manner I've added a couple issues for this: https://github.com/macourtney/Dark-Exchange/issues/36 and https://github.com/macourtney/Dark-Exchange/issues/37 These were common suggestions from other people as well. I'll make them higher priority. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: joulesbeef on July 27, 2011, 05:49:47 PM Quote Did you make sure I2P is running properly? You can do that through your browser using the link: http://127.0.0.1:7657/index.jsp somehow I missed that dependency.. i now see 3 peers so I guess I am good.. looks like a cool project. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: joulesbeef on August 06, 2011, 04:57:34 AM wow i was the last post here? is this a dead project? still only 3 peers and no bids or asks
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: markm on August 06, 2011, 05:26:36 AM I got i2p running, then got sidetracked, then lately started to realise i2p hasn't been running since several reboots ago and I'm not even sure anymore where I was when I ran it. Then happily came across your post, reminding me that i2p wasn't an end in itself but a dependency of dark exchange...
Likely to be some days before I actually end up having it running though I think. Thanks for the reminder. -MarkM- Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: joulesbeef on August 06, 2011, 05:39:15 AM lol sounds sorta familiar....i had just noticed i2p runing.. then it reminded me of darkexchange but took me forever to remember the name and find it on my system again.
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: morpheus on August 06, 2011, 01:50:05 PM wow i was the last post here? is this a dead project? still only 3 peers and no bids or asks No, the project is not dead. I plan to release another version this weekend. Since there are so few nodes on the network right now, the best way to find bids is to view identities on the identity tab. I have around 10 open offers, and I try to run Dark Exchange 24/7. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: joulesbeef on August 06, 2011, 03:51:34 PM cool i had just restarted it.. so perhaps it hadnt downloaded everything.. i was mainly bumping your thread trying to get some response.. good to see it is still in development.
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: morpheus on August 08, 2011, 01:58:05 AM I've released version 1.2.0 of Dark Exchange. You can download it from here:
https://github.com/macourtney/Dark-Exchange/downloads There are a bunch of changes in this release, but it's been a long day and I don't have the energy to list all of the changes right now. I'll do it tomorrow. If you must know now, you can check out the git commit logs. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: morpheus on August 09, 2011, 03:32:11 PM New features in the 1.2.0 release of Dark Exchange:
Issue #4: Trades are now highlighted when they have an unread message. Issue #5: Trades are now highlighted when an action is required. Issue #31: Removed all id columns from the tables to free some space. Issue #32: Added a show only online identities check box to the identities tab. Issue #33: The password field starts with focus when the login window is first displayed. Issue #34: Timestamps added to all logs. Issues #38, #39, #40, #41, #42: Added support for Paypal, Liberty Reserve, Paxum, Pecunix and Namecoin. Fixes: Added exception handling to keep bad data from dropping your client off the network (big issue fixed). Fixed a display issue on the peer tab which caused the "is notified" column to display a 1 instead of yes. Dark Exchange is more aggressive at finding other nodes on the network. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: markm on August 12, 2011, 10:07:23 AM The run.sh does not work whether I am in its directroy with it or up in the main project directory when I run it, it claims it cannot find the class.
lein run from the main directroy does run it, but once I put my username and password and repeat of password to create a user it says Code: 2011-08-12 07:02:34,000 ERROR [darkexchange.uncaught-exception-handler]: Uncaught Exception: Which looks like it crashed, but, it doesn't return to the commandline prompt so maybe that is not a fatal error and I now am to wait however long it might take for the i2p network to establish connections and tell everyone about this new user I created or something? Or is it simply in some kind of loop or just waiting for that thread to finish which actually is never going to finish having in fact crashed? Should I leave it overnight and see if it has finished making the new user in a few hours? Or just kill it as broken? -MarkM- Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: TiagoTiago on August 12, 2011, 10:36:55 AM Wouldn't Freenet (http://freenetproject.org/) be more suitable for hosting a decentralized thing that must be pretty much unshutdownable?
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jtimon on August 21, 2011, 06:59:28 PM Ey, morpheus. It seems that atomic trades between chains are possible (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=31643.msg472047#msg472047).
Unlike LRusd/btc, btc/nmc trades could be atomic, so there would be no risk at all to trade using dark exchange for these trades. I think this feature would be awesome. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: morpheus on August 23, 2011, 06:45:09 PM Ey, morpheus. It seems that atomic trades between chains are possible (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=31643.msg472047#msg472047). Unlike LRusd/btc, btc/nmc trades could be atomic, so there would be no risk at all to trade using dark exchange for these trades. I think this feature would be awesome. The way Dark Exchange is built right now, it is not possible to really integrate an exchange like that. Really, all you can do with Dark Exchange is find other people with offers. How you go about trading it between you and your partner. If the above type of trades become popular, I will certainly look into integrating it. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: nighteyes on August 23, 2011, 07:41:42 PM How does one go about resetting or recovering a password if one forgot it? :-[
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jtimon on August 23, 2011, 07:52:52 PM Ey, morpheus. It seems that atomic trades between chains are possible (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=31643.msg472047#msg472047). Unlike LRusd/btc, btc/nmc trades could be atomic, so there would be no risk at all to trade using dark exchange for these trades. I think this feature would be awesome. The way Dark Exchange is built right now, it is not possible to really integrate an exchange like that. Really, all you can do with Dark Exchange is find other people with offers. How you go about trading it between you and your partner. If the above type of trades become popular, I will certainly look into integrating it. One step at a time I guess. I'm not even sure that those trades are possible right now, but it seems that the protocol wouldn't have to chain, only a client or an extension will be needed. I'll wait to see what Mike puts in the wiki though. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: morpheus on August 23, 2011, 07:55:50 PM How does one go about resetting or recovering a password if one forgot it? :-[ Unfortunately, it's lost. :( The password is saved locally to your machine (encrypted of course). That way, there is no single point of failure which would allow a hacker to take over the exchange. The disadvantage is, no one can help you recover your password if you forget it. You can just create a new user. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jtimon on September 07, 2011, 08:50:12 AM One step at a time I guess. I'm not even sure that those trades are possible right now, but it seems that the protocol wouldn't have to chain, only a client or an extension will be needed. I'll wait to see what Mike puts in the wiki though. Look, morpheus. Here's the article in the wiki in case you're interested: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts#Example_5:_Trading_across_chains https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=22581 Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: ShadowOfHarbringer on October 20, 2011, 08:16:14 AM Watching this.
Also, awesome idea. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: Sultan on October 20, 2011, 11:36:58 AM This seems like such an interesting idea and I am looking forward to seeing it develop. I don't quite understand how it works, though. Could somebody please explain to me the mwchanisms of the exchange and how a decentralised architecture makes it work?
Thanks. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: finway on October 20, 2011, 11:50:12 AM How do you decnetralize US Dollars ?
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jtimon on October 20, 2011, 05:16:45 PM How do you decnetralize US Dollars ? The trades are not atomic nor automatic. Both parties are responsible for not being scammed in the trade. But the trades could be atomic (when the bitcoin protocol allows replacements) for other currency pairs (say a btc/nmc trade (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts#Example_5:_Trading_across_chains)) and could be automated within dark exchange. To decentralize dollars, you could make a coin backed by USDs: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=9493 But of course, then you would need to trust the usdCoin issuer instead of an exchange manager. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: morpheus on October 22, 2011, 12:05:51 AM Unfortunately, I haven't had time recently to put much work into Dark Exchange. I was in the middle of implementing a trust score when things got crazy at work.
Since there still seems to be interest in the concept, I'll have to put more time into it. Of course, I'm always open to help. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: Technomage on October 22, 2011, 01:09:02 AM There is definitely interest, keep up the good work! I made a donation to support this project.
This is actually quite significant. If we can use a dark exchange system that has good web of trust attributions, it will massively reduce the risk of centralized exchanges, such as Mt. Gox. We wouldn't need to worry *that* much about the exchanges even though them going down would make it much more difficult for Bitcoin to go any more mainstream. But for power users a dark exchange is an excellent backup and for some of us it might even be preferable. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: cbeast on October 22, 2011, 02:30:10 AM This must be a very important idea, but I don't have a clue how it's supposed to work. :/
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: Sultan on October 22, 2011, 10:42:46 AM This must be a very important idea, but I don't have a clue how it's supposed to work. :/ I'm a bit confused too :-( I am guessing the decentralised nature of the exchange is with regards to the bids and asks alone, but as for the actual trade, that would probably be out of scope and dependant on the trust between the individuals on a trade. Nevertheless, a decentralised database for, essentially storing the price of Bitcoin is crucial. All what I said above is merely assumptions, I don't think I understand it. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jtimon on October 22, 2011, 11:28:52 AM I am guessing the decentralised nature of the exchange is with regards to the bids and asks alone, but as for the actual trade, that would probably be out of scope and dependant on the trust between the individuals on a trade. I haven't installed or read the software, but it's how it works as far as I can tell. Nevertheless, a decentralised database for, essentially storing the price of Bitcoin is crucial. I didn't thought about this in this way. Thank you. This sentence has really helped me. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: cbeast on October 22, 2011, 11:39:54 AM I am guessing the decentralised nature of the exchange is with regards to the bids and asks alone, but as for the actual trade, that would probably be out of scope and dependant on the trust between the individuals on a trade. I haven't installed or read the software, but it's how it works as far as I can tell. Nevertheless, a decentralised database for, essentially storing the price of Bitcoin is crucial. I didn't thought about this in this way. Thank you. This sentence has really helped me. I wrote this in another thread earlier today. It's not like we need a full exchange that reports the volume of transactions. All we need is a general idea of the price bitcoin is being traded at.
This would be organic and require trust of not a central reporting authority, but of all bitcoin users to volunteer honest reporting. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: Sultan on October 22, 2011, 12:27:30 PM I am guessing the decentralised nature of the exchange is with regards to the bids and asks alone, but as for the actual trade, that would probably be out of scope and dependant on the trust between the individuals on a trade. I haven't installed or read the software, but it's how it works as far as I can tell. Nevertheless, a decentralised database for, essentially storing the price of Bitcoin is crucial. I didn't thought about this in this way. Thank you. This sentence has really helped me. I wrote this in another thread earlier today. It's not like we need a full exchange that reports the volume of transactions. All we need is a general idea of the price bitcoin is being traded at.
This would be organic and require trust of not a central reporting authority, but of all bitcoin users to volunteer honest reporting. By the looks of it, Dark Exchange could be used to keep tabs on recent trading activity including volume, market depth etc, as all that would only require processing on the raw data. As long as the data is shared and verified by all members in the nodes, then the clients themselves can use this for whatever purpose. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: EhVedadoOAnonimato on October 23, 2011, 04:21:29 PM To decentralize dollars, you could make a coin backed by USDs: What an interesting idea! It's true that you would still have some almost-central "point of failures", which are the issuers, that could be shut down. But, if at least a few countries in the world have governments which are not that authoritarian, these issuers could establish in those places. Sort of what Pecunix tries to do in order to avoid the same fate of e-gold. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: cbeast on October 23, 2011, 11:43:20 PM To decentralize dollars, you could make a coin backed by USDs: What an interesting idea! It's true that you would still have some almost-central "point of failures", which are the issuers, that could be shut down. But, if at least a few countries in the world have governments which are not that authoritarian, these issuers could establish in those places. Sort of what Pecunix tries to do in order to avoid the same fate of e-gold. Absolute genius! It's so simple why didn't anyone think of it. It would be as simple as writing a bill and have Congress vote on pinning a crypto-currency to USD. If you consider the rate of 21 Mil BTC created and if the US Treasury allowed the equivalent of $1 trillion to be created per year, then each bitcoin today would be worth over $400 each. It would be like a $2000 lottery every 10 minutes. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jtimon on October 24, 2011, 07:34:23 AM To decentralize dollars, you could make a coin backed by USDs: What an interesting idea! It's true that you would still have some almost-central "point of failures", which are the issuers, that could be shut down. But, if at least a few countries in the world have governments which are not that authoritarian, these issuers could establish in those places. Sort of what Pecunix tries to do in order to avoid the same fate of e-gold. Absolute genius! It's so simple why didn't anyone think of it. It would be as simple as writing a bill and have Congress vote on pinning a crypto-currency to USD. If you consider the rate of 21 Mil BTC created and if the US Treasury allowed the equivalent of $1 trillion to be created per year, then each bitcoin today would be worth over $400 each. It would be like a $2000 lottery every 10 minutes. I think you have misunderstood the idea. 50 usdCoins won't be created each block. Only the issuing trust can create them. usdCoin miners would live on tx fees, but they could be merge mining. You should read the beertoken proposal. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: EhVedadoOAnonimato on October 24, 2011, 07:57:13 AM usdCoin miners? A different chain? Why? Just "taint" satoshis, no need to create another chain, that's much more complicated.
EDIT: For those who don't know, one satoshi = 0,01µBTC, the minimal bitcoin unit. And "tainting" a coin is just marking it and following where it goes. The issuer could credit a bunch of addresses with 0,01µBTC each, and publicly state that each of those satoshis could be redeemable by, say, $1. They could be transferred and all just like any other bitcoin, the issuer himself cannot control where they go once they transfer it to someone else. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: cbeast on October 24, 2011, 11:13:20 AM usdCoin miners? A different chain? Why? Just "taint" satoshis, no need to create another chain, that's much more complicated. EDIT: For those who don't know, one satoshi = 0,01µBTC, the minimal bitcoin unit. And "tainting" a coin is just marking it and following where it goes. The issuer could credit a bunch of addresses with 0,01µBTC each, and publicly state that each of those satoshis could be redeemable by, say, $1. They could be transferred and all just like any other bitcoin, the issuer himself cannot control where they go once they transfer it to someone else. As long as they offer me a good fair price for my satoshis, I would turn them in for "tainting." Otherwise I'll stop mining and so will most others. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: Sultan on October 24, 2011, 12:30:03 PM Rather than create a new coin, I think payments should either be direct or in the architecture of Ripple. Certain nodes can act as bridges regarding cross-currency transactions.
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: becoin on October 24, 2011, 12:53:14 PM I think payments should either be direct or in the architecture of Ripple. This is the only path to follow if bitcoin exchanges continue to get their bank accounts canceled one after another.Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jtimon on October 24, 2011, 04:44:45 PM usdCoin miners? A different chain? Why? Just "taint" satoshis, no need to create another chain, that's much more complicated. What's the problem with a new chain? Another currency, another chain. I don't think it's more complicated, the issuers can just use the beertoken code and change the name and backing of the currency. It would be great to be able to trade ripple credits for bitcoins. But to make the trades atomic and decentralized you need: 1) Decentralized ripple (in progress). 2) commit scripts (https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rippleusers/B9750nEoR9o/discussion). Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: EhVedadoOAnonimato on October 24, 2011, 06:37:41 PM What's the problem with a new chain? There's a lot of infrastructure in bitcoin already, why reinvent the wheel? By tainting coins you can profit from everything that already exists, including miners. A different chain, even if this merged mining works, would have to offer incentives to miners... what does the issuer gain with that? Using bitcoin only, you don't even need scripts or different rule sets concerning transactions, you can use simple, standard bitcoin transactions to make an atomic trade. Well, I find it better to use what's already there, we have nothing to loose, only to gain. But it's true that both implementations could eventually work, so it's up to the issuers to choose their methods anyway. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jtimon on October 24, 2011, 07:28:23 PM What's the problem with a new chain? There's a lot of infrastructure in bitcoin already, why reinvent the wheel? I really think an alternative chain is the simpler solution. Maybe I don't understand your proposal. What in the block chain says that the tainted satoshis are USD? Do you need a centralized server from the issuers to tell you what satoshis are "tainted dollars"? By tainting coins you can profit from everything that already exists, including miners. A different chain, even if this merged mining works, would have to offer incentives to miners... Yes, fees. The same incentive that miners will ask for moving tainted coins. Merged mining already exists, is working for namecoin. what does the issuer gain with that? He doesn't need to take care of transactions and moves his currency within a system that can be trusted. He no longer needs to know the identity of his customers. The same that would be achieved with your proposal. Using bitcoin only, you don't even need scripts or different rule sets concerning transactions, you can use simple, standard bitcoin transactions to make an atomic trade. Well, I find it better to use what's already there, we have nothing to loose, only to gain. But it's true that both implementations could eventually work, so it's up to the issuers to choose their methods anyway. Yes, is up to the issuers. But I think they will chose whatever is more convenient for the decentralized exchange, the bitcoin network and their currency itself. Your solution would not need replacements so it could be implemented earlier. I hope someone implements one of the two. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: EhVedadoOAnonimato on October 24, 2011, 07:50:25 PM Maybe I don't understand your proposal. What in the block chain says that the tainted satoshis are USD? Do you need a centralized server from the issuers to tell you what satoshis are "tainted dollars"? Yes, in a certain moment the server would announce new backed coins. After that, anyone can keep track of their movements. A common protocol could be defined so that different issuers can use the same software, just by adding different announcing servers. Of course such announcement could be done in a P2P network, but there's no point in it, since the issuer is already a known central entity in which you have to trust anyway. By tainting coins you can profit from everything that already exists, including miners. A different chain, even if this merged mining works, would have to offer incentives to miners... Yes, fees. The same incentive that miners will ask for moving tainted coins. Merged mining already exists, is working for namecoin. Do you know why people chose to create a new, independent chain for namecoin, with coins of its own? Why not a chain dependent on bitcoin's chain, using bitcoin themselves for the transactions? Back to the topic, the fee structure is already there for bitcoin transactions. By creating another chain, you'd need to pay fees for both wouldn't you? Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jtimon on October 25, 2011, 12:01:49 PM Maybe I don't understand your proposal. What in the block chain says that the tainted satoshis are USD? Do you need a centralized server from the issuers to tell you what satoshis are "tainted dollars"? Yes, in a certain moment the server would announce new backed coins. After that, anyone can keep track of their movements. A common protocol could be defined so that different issuers can use the same software, just by adding different announcing servers. Of course such announcement could be done in a P2P network, but there's no point in it, since the issuer is already a known central entity in which you have to trust anyway. By tainting coins you can profit from everything that already exists, including miners. A different chain, even if this merged mining works, would have to offer incentives to miners... Yes, fees. The same incentive that miners will ask for moving tainted coins. Merged mining already exists, is working for namecoin. Do you know why people chose to create a new, independent chain for namecoin, with coins of its own? Why not a chain dependent on bitcoin's chain, using bitcoin themselves for the transactions? There was a proposal for having a decentralized DNS within the bitcoin chain, bitDNS I think. But people didn't like the idea of including more data than what's purely necessary for bitcoin transactions in the chain. For example, a merchant verifying transactions for his own purposes will need to download more transactions if the usdCoins are moving inside the bitcoin blockchain. I think it is cleaner this way too. But note that creating a new currency wasn't necessary (although probably more convenient), the namecoin chain could have lived on bitcoin fees from the beginning. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Alternative_Chains Back to the topic, the fee structure is already there for bitcoin transactions. By creating another chain, you'd need to pay fees for both wouldn't you? Yes. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: EhVedadoOAnonimato on October 25, 2011, 01:00:58 PM There was a proposal for having a decentralized DNS within the bitcoin chain, bitDNS I think. But people didn't like the idea of including more data than what's purely necessary for bitcoin transactions in the chain. For example, a merchant verifying transactions for his own purposes will need to download more transactions if the usdCoins are moving inside the bitcoin blockchain. I think it is cleaner this way too. I agree that putting DNS data into bitcoin's block chain is not a good idea. But a new proof-of-work chain was not necessary either. A namecoin block could be considered valid if signed with the secret key of the generation address of the latest generated bitcoin block. You create a bitcoin block, and without having to do another proof-of-work, you create a namecoin block. The namecoin protocol could know about the existence of bitcoin's and, for example, require payments to be made in bitcoin for a name transaction to be considered valid. Do you know if this option of creating a dependent-chain was considered? Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: ShadowOfHarbringer on October 25, 2011, 04:11:19 PM usdCoin miners? A different chain? Why? Just "taint" satoshis, no need to create another chain, that's much more complicated. What's the problem with a new chain? Another currency, another chain. I don't think it's more complicated, the issuers can just use the beertoken code and change the name and backing of the currency. It would be great to be able to trade ripple credits for bitcoins. But to make the trades atomic and decentralized you need: 1) Decentralized ripple (in progress). 2) commit scripts (https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rippleusers/B9750nEoR9o/discussion). But how do you make sure that every coin is worth exactly 1 USD ? To control the price, there would have to be an entity who controll the supply of the currency and the currency would essentially become centralized. There is no other way. Who could be such issuer ? Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jtimon on October 26, 2011, 09:50:27 AM usdCoin miners? A different chain? Why? Just "taint" satoshis, no need to create another chain, that's much more complicated. What's the problem with a new chain? Another currency, another chain. I don't think it's more complicated, the issuers can just use the beertoken code and change the name and backing of the currency. It would be great to be able to trade ripple credits for bitcoins. But to make the trades atomic and decentralized you need: 1) Decentralized ripple (in progress). 2) commit scripts (https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rippleusers/B9750nEoR9o/discussion). But how do you make sure that every coin is worth exactly 1 USD ? To control the price, there would have to be an entity who controll the supply of the currency and the currency would essentially become centralized. There is no other way. Who could be such issuer ? A trust like the one sacarlson describes for beertokens. An exchange (say mtgox) that wants to provide decentralized exchanges while still providing the service of "storing your dollars". An association of businesses that doesn't want to rely on centralized exchanges. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: cbeast on October 26, 2011, 10:01:32 AM To control the price, there would have to be an entity who controll the supply of the currency and the currency would essentially become centralized. There is no other way. Who could be such issuer ? A trust like the one sacarlson describes for beertokens. An exchange (say mtgox) that wants to provide decentralized exchanges while still providing the service of "storing your dollars". An association of businesses that doesn't want to rely on centralized exchanges. What's to stop the association of business from competing with one another by offering a higher exchange rate? Are you asking business to not compete? Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jtimon on October 26, 2011, 10:21:09 AM What's to stop the association of business from competing with one another by offering a higher exchange rate? Are you asking business to not compete? There can be sacarlsonUsdCoins, mtgoxUsdCoins, etc. But they will be considered different markets because the different usdCoins aren't fungible between them. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: ShadowOfHarbringer on October 26, 2011, 11:54:14 AM What's to stop the association of business from competing with one another by offering a higher exchange rate? Are you asking business to not compete? There can be sacarlsonUsdCoins, mtgoxUsdCoins, etc. But they will be considered different markets because the different usdCoins aren't fungible between them. So there could be multiple centralized systems with a different blockchain for each other.... Hmmm. I think I like the idea. Multiple centralized coins =~ decentralization. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: EhVedadoOAnonimato on October 26, 2011, 12:25:00 PM Backed coins are an interesting concept, but they don't solve the problem of getting money in and out. Instead of having to deposit or withdraw in an exchange, you'd have to deposit or withdraw in an issuer. Same problems would arise.
But at least trades can be made decentralized, thus more anonymous. Even if they keep records of who deposits or withdraw money on the issuer, they can't know who used this money in between. I have a feeling this is probably illegal in most places, though. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jtimon on October 26, 2011, 01:59:56 PM Maybe would be just a legal loophole, since most lawyer and lawmakers won't understand it anyway.
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: HostFat on October 26, 2011, 02:29:17 PM It's freaking awesome! ;D
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jago25_98 on October 31, 2011, 12:46:34 AM Code: path is /home/j/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games ? This is on a VPS without X11... need to find the docs Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: EhVedadoOAnonimato on October 31, 2011, 08:37:45 AM That error is expected. If you run a Java app in an environment with no graphs, you need to add the headless system parameter.
It's something like -Djava.awt.headless=true you add to the command line. But if this app needs a graphical environment, well, it just won't work without it... Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: Elwar on October 31, 2011, 12:23:37 PM This does not address the hard part of the exchange, which is exchanging currency for Bitcoin and vice versa.
Setting the price in a decentralized manner is easy. If we had several exchangers that each wanted to run their p2p exchange, they just put in the current ratio for Bitcoins to dollars. You want to start an exchange, you put in the current ratio, $3 for every 1 BTC into your available trade amount. Say you have $30 and 10 BTC in your exchange. Someone wants to trade 1 BTC for $3. You send them the $3 and they send you 1 BTC. You now have $27 and 11 BTC. Your P2P system goes out to other exchanges and finds the best price to even out your ratio. You find the best one out there accepts $2.9 for 1 BTC. You trade 1 BTC with them and you now have $29.90 and 10 BTC. Then that other exchange goes out and tries to find the best deal to even its ratio and on and on. Each exchange could set up whatever transaction fee they want. When trying to locate the best ratio you also try to find the best transaction fee. But the hardest part is the actual exchange of currency for BTC. Dealing with Dwolla or Liberty dollar or banks or anything is more than an individual wants to deal with or is capable of. But that is the key to Bitcoin's success. An easy transfer from currency to BTC. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: finway on October 31, 2011, 01:55:18 PM Who's on DarkExchange? Why can't i find nobody?
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jago25_98 on November 29, 2011, 02:46:43 PM In Argentina in the last few days currency controls are heavily now in place. It is illegal to swap a peso for a dollar (it is possible to do it but the tax reporting rules make it almost completely unworkable)
This is needed NOW and there's massive demand. Freenet: Nobody has the knowledge to set it up in Argentina. Hard to build a dynamic site for buy & sell offers. i2p: Again, hard to setup. Need to run a server 24/7. No proxy gateway for average users (well there are generic ones but because that allow access to all i2p sites that are too slow) Orisis and Iris: Iris docs are in Italian. The darn thing is close source and dynamically compiled to an X11 so can't run on a server! Dark Exchange: Great idea but again not ready. What we need is a way to mirror the content of the market to a website. When this website gets blocked it should be easy to bring up again. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: Sultan on November 29, 2011, 03:02:28 PM Quote Dark Exchange: Great idea but again not ready. What we need is a way to mirror the content of the market to a website. When this website gets blocked it should be easy to bring up again. This is an EXCELLENT idea! If Dark Exchange had a way to store the current offers without those nodesbeing online, there could be a "server node" who stays up to date with their peers and translates them onto a website!! I think it shouldn't be nessecary for ppl who want to use Dark Exchange to use i2p. Bitcoin isn't run over an i2p layer, and that won't get shut down. I agree people need to have the choice of being able to connect via TOR or i2p or Freenet, but its decentralised nature is its strong point, not the fact that it resides in the DarkNet. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: HostFat on November 29, 2011, 03:13:58 PM Orisis and Iris: Iris docs are in Italian. The darn thing is close source and dynamically compiled to an X11 so can't run on a server! I think that it's quiet easy to install Isis, I'll write somewhere how to do it.You can run an Osiris client on a cheap VPS, but even 2/3 peers are enough to maintain it online ( see the anarchy bitcoin forum ... ) About sources, they said that it will be open ... I like to say that I know them ( not face 2 face ), but I can guarantee that if they said it will be open source ... then it will be. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jtimon on November 29, 2011, 04:20:07 PM In Argentina in the last few days currency controls are heavily now in place. It is illegal to swap a peso for a dollar (it is possible to do it but the tax reporting rules make it almost completely unworkable) This is needed NOW and there's massive demand. Isn't open transactions useful for your needs? Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: ctoon6 on December 09, 2011, 01:49:22 AM im just testing this and i get no peers in the peer tab. i had it running for over 10 minutes and tried restarting. i am not using i2p, is it required?
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: caston on December 09, 2011, 02:16:53 PM I haven't tried the software but at the moment there is a lot of trading on mtgox and other exchanges where the exchange takes a slice in the form of a "trade commission". Ideally these should be replaced with transaction fees in the p2p exchange model and these fees are paid out to miners. This will make mining for transactions fees very profitable indeed. Are there any plans to integrate a p2p exchange into the existing system in such a way that miners get the transaction fees for these trades?
I would also like to see it as a kind of p2p ebay where anything can be traded e.g. food, clothing, commodities and so on. It could also be like a p2p stock exchange where you could buy shares in companies. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: Sultan on December 09, 2011, 02:24:11 PM I haven't tried the software but at the moment there is a lot of trading on mtgox and other exchanges where the exchange takes a slice in the form of a "trade commission". Ideally these should be replaced with transaction fees in the p2p exchange model and these fees are paid out to miners. This will make mining for transactions fees very profitable indeed. Are there any plans to integrate a p2p exchange into the existing system in such a way that miners get the transaction fees for these trades? I would also like to see it as a kind of p2p ebay where anything can be traded e.g. food, clothing, commodities and so on. Intersango already does no commission. But I see your point, and it's a good idea to say the least. I think if Dark Exchange gets to where we are all dreaming it should be then DarkBay could follow? Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: caston on December 09, 2011, 02:31:00 PM I also noticed this thread about a peer 2 peer share exchange.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54033 I think if Dark Exchange gets to where we are all dreaming it should be then DarkBay could follow? Perhaps... also it could be for p2p classifieds which are of course different to auctions. Classifieds open up to many possibilities such as freelancing and help wanted e.g. people willing to work for coins. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: markm on December 09, 2011, 02:59:40 PM whats the status of this project? Last time I tried to get it to run it showed errors, which I posted, but I never heard back. So as far as I know it does not work.-MarkM- Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jago25_98 on December 10, 2011, 01:47:07 AM Orisis and Iris: Iris docs are in Italian. The darn thing is close source and dynamically compiled to an X11 so can't run on a server! I think that it's quiet easy to install Isis, I'll write somewhere how to do it.You can run an Osiris client on a cheap VPS, but even 2/3 peers are enough to maintain it online ( see the anarchy bitcoin forum ... ) About sources, they said that it will be open ... I like to say that I know them ( not face 2 face ), but I can guarantee that if they said it will be open source ... then it will be. Would love to see some English instructions and how to run Osiris without X11 installed, pretty please? Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: ctoon6 on December 10, 2011, 03:20:31 AM come on dev's here is your chance to make the biggest name for yourself since Satoshi. this project is the key to ensuring bitcoins success no matter what kind of government or bank crackdown. start coding!! its open source, go on ahead and start a pull request ;) Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: cbeast on December 10, 2011, 03:24:32 AM come on dev's here is your chance to make the biggest name for yourself since Satoshi. this project is the key to ensuring bitcoins success no matter what kind of government or bank crackdown. start coding!! its open source, go on ahead and start a pull request ;) Maybe he is Satoshi ;) Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: EhVedadoOAnonimato on December 11, 2011, 01:37:24 PM come on dev's here is your chance to make the biggest name for yourself since Satoshi. this project is the key to ensuring bitcoins success no matter what kind of government or bank crackdown. start coding!! I think you're giving too much emphasis on it. It's not that of a big deal since it's not escrowed. In the end this is just a desktop client to do what OTC or bitmarket.eu are already doing. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jago25_98 on January 03, 2012, 01:46:46 AM I think you're giving too much emphasis on it. It's not that of a big deal since it's not escrowed. In the end this is just a desktop client to do what OTC or bitmarket.eu are already doing. [/quote] Both of those are centralised. Escrow facility is important too though Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: Sultan on January 03, 2012, 11:27:14 AM I think you're giving too much emphasis on it. It's not that of a big deal since it's not escrowed. In the end this is just a desktop client to do what OTC or bitmarket.eu are already doing. Both of those are centralised. Escrow facility is important too though [/quote] Maybe try to have something more like RipplePay model instead of escrow? Automated and trusted peers? Of course, you'd need a critical mass before it becomes viable. Or rather, is it possible to piggyback off of RipplePay anyway? Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jtimon on January 03, 2012, 11:39:58 AM Quote I think you're giving too much emphasis on it. It's not that of a big deal since it's not escrowed. In the end this is just a desktop client to do what OTC or bitmarket.eu are already doing. Both of those are centralised. Escrow facility is important too though Maybe try to have something more like RipplePay model instead of escrow? Automated and trusted peers? Remember there's no functional implementation of the distributed ripple protocol yet and ripplepay relies on a centralized server. Or rather, is it possible to piggyback off of RipplePay anyway? I don't understand. Can you explain the question more? Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: Sultan on January 03, 2012, 11:51:45 AM Quote I think you're giving too much emphasis on it. It's not that of a big deal since it's not escrowed. In the end this is just a desktop client to do what OTC or bitmarket.eu are already doing. Both of those are centralised. Escrow facility is important too though Maybe try to have something more like RipplePay model instead of escrow? Automated and trusted peers? Remember there's no functional implementation of the distributed ripple protocol yet and ripplepay relies on a centralized server. Or rather, is it possible to piggyback off of RipplePay anyway? I don't understand. Can you explain the question more? True, no implementation of it yet, I think this is what needs to be tackled ad I agree, a centralised server means central point of failure. The only way I can think of doing it is everybody on the daisy-chain of a transaction verifying the transaction. Sorry, what I meant by 'piggybacking' was just sign up to tge site. A crude solution with a central point of failure but a start? Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jtimon on January 03, 2012, 01:06:10 PM True, no implementation of it yet, I think this is what needs to be tackled ad I agree, a centralised server means central point of failure. The only way I can think of doing it is everybody on the daisy-chain of a transaction verifying the transaction. Sorry, what I meant by 'piggybacking' was just sign up to tge site. A crude solution with a central point of failure but a start? You can just sing up on ripplepay (or villages.cc) and transfer there existing debts if that's what you're asking. OT will implement ripple at some point. Will be still centralized but you won't have to trust the server (a great improvement). Decentralized ripple could be implemented with a chain but not all the transactions would be instant. The current protocol draft doesn't relies on a blockchain: http://ripple-project.org/Protocol/Protocol?from=Protocol.Index Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: EhVedadoOAnonimato on January 03, 2012, 02:43:13 PM Quote from: me I think you're giving too much emphasis on it. It's not that of a big deal since it's not escrowed. In the end this is just a desktop client to do what OTC or bitmarket.eu are already doing. Both of those are centralised. The trades don't pass through a central link, they are person-to-person. So what that the system is centralized? It's just a database of orders after all. If bitmarket.eu or bitcoin-otc get shut down, all they need to do is to open their source and you'll see others popping up. Like when a torrent tracker is shut down. I really don't see the single fact of distributing this order database as a big deal. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: Crack222 on January 15, 2012, 02:04:31 AM Hey after a lot of research i just found a TOR version of Dark Exchange !
The problem is I can make it work perfectly on windows xp but on my windows 7 it just close itself! Can someone help me? I'm not sure if i'm allowed to post it here since i'm new but anyway i've done a virus scan before you can check it =>HERE<= (http://vscan.novirusthanks.org/analysis/23368d76a94b262babf4cd861a336c52/ZGFyay1leGNoYW5nZS1leGU=/), the download link for TOR darkexchange is http://www.mediafire.com/?r3dnzwv4adld0jn (http://www.mediafire.com/?r3dnzwv4adld0jn) Pls tell me how to make it work on win7, even with compatibility mode I can't manage to get it work. Whats weird is on my vmware win xp it works perfectly ! PS : of course it only shows auctions from the TOR network not I2P so for the moment theres not much out there Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: bitcool on January 15, 2012, 04:55:26 AM Darkbay or TorrentMarket, p2p market is a dream come true.
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: BinaryMage on January 21, 2012, 05:49:02 AM Following. Any updates on the operational status?
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: Sultan on January 23, 2012, 03:48:38 PM Just wanted a chance to think out loud here... Instead of using an application, wouldn't creating a distributed website (on something like freenet) be much better?
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: Crack222 on February 03, 2012, 12:20:06 AM Its kind of operationnal.. At least on the TOR network there is about 5 6 orders operationnal in average when you connect, the main problem being your orders not showing if you're offline.
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: muyuu on February 07, 2012, 04:17:41 PM Following.
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: Elwar on February 10, 2012, 06:22:51 AM Interesting thread about USDcoins earlier. Basically a crypto coin pegged to the dollar right?
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jtimon on February 10, 2012, 07:38:54 AM Interesting thread about USDcoins earlier. Basically a crypto coin pegged to the dollar right? Yes. Someone (say mtgox) backs them. The concept is basically the same as BeerTokens (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=9493). I talked about a chain where issuance of different crypto-currencies (or crypto IOUs if you prefer) by users is allowed (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=37505.0). It's probably outdated. And I have concerns about scalability and DoS attacks (spaming and such). In this other thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60591), a chain is not needed, but still usd IOUs can be issued by users and traded for bitcoins atomically. I'm thinking lately about combining both things so I should review both threads properly. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: phelix on March 07, 2012, 08:01:37 AM usdCoin miners? A different chain? Why? Just "taint" satoshis, no need to create another chain, that's much more complicated. What's the problem with a new chain? Another currency, another chain. I don't think it's more complicated, the issuers can just use the beertoken code and change the name and backing of the currency. It would be great to be able to trade ripple credits for bitcoins. But to make the trades atomic and decentralized you need: 1) Decentralized ripple (in progress). 2) commit scripts (https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rippleusers/B9750nEoR9o/discussion). But how do you make sure that every coin is worth exactly 1 USD ? To control the price, there would have to be an entity who controll the supply of the currency and the currency would essentially become centralized. There is no other way. Who could be such issuer ? A trust like the one sacarlson describes for beertokens. An exchange (say mtgox) that wants to provide decentralized exchanges while still providing the service of "storing your dollars". An association of businesses that doesn't want to rely on centralized exchanges. I'm a little late to the party but a bump can't hurt with this interesting thread anyway. Maybe there is an alternative to a new chain as starting it is a little risky (51%), at least it would have to be merge mined. Following "marked" satoshis should be possible with some rules. Also with namecoin it would be possible to create all kinds of bonds: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=66868 With fiat bonds / fiat coins the issuer could simply take (part of) the interest he get's from the fiat money. Also there are proprietary redeemable codes (gox). Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: matthewh3 on October 29, 2012, 10:30:03 PM Is this project still being developed? I downloaded it and got it running and connected to two peers. Is that the whole user base?
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jago25_98 on October 29, 2012, 11:18:49 PM I never got this working...
Just a WoT running on Tor, I2P, freenet, or just some p2p network would be something... Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: markm on October 29, 2012, 11:47:53 PM I never got this working... Just a WoT running on Tor, I2P, freenet, or just some p2p network would be something... http://wxi2mgugw4732xs7.onion:8081 Its a start at least; it needs users in order to learn what it does not have that would be nice to look into adding to it... ...It is massively configurable so just setting up all the transaction types or whatever that the users find they need is going to take some time and some users. It is GPL'd free open source so the time users put into working out how best it should be configured and so on won't be wasted as anyone else can run the same code if one or more sites using it vanish. So please do come help figure out whether it is useful and how best to put it to use... -MarkM- Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: Bitcoin Oz on October 30, 2012, 12:08:31 AM Interesting thread about USDcoins earlier. Basically a crypto coin pegged to the dollar right? You could probably back it by redeeming for 1USD per coin with the usd in a bank vault somewhere. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: markm on October 30, 2012, 05:48:07 AM "Exchanges" seem to have a somewhat biased view of trading, maybe, as looking at things like this thesis:
fiximulator.org/FIXimulator_Thesis.pdf and looking at the whole "marketcetera" platform, and at the FIX protocol for equjities trading, and such sources, it reads a lot more like a vast world wide distributed network of traders, with to some extent a "buy side" where fund managers and such see things from their side, and a "sell side" where middlepeople such as stock exchanges try to find buy side folk looking to buy different things and match them up, partly presumably by means of the stuff some buyers are using as wealth to buy stuff with happens to be stuff that other folk are actually looking to buy. Or something. Certainly it is not "centralised", heck not only do some nations have more than one stock exchange but there are more and more nations that have at least one stock exchange. Some of this stuff makes it seem like the so called stock exchanges are just gaggles / mobs of sell-side folk ganging up the better to out-do the smaller sell-side folk.. fiximulator.org/FIXimulator_Thesis.pdf http://www.marketcetera.org/ http://www.fixprotocol.org/ -MarkM- Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: matthewh3 on December 21, 2012, 08:11:56 PM Is this project still being developed? I downloaded it and got it running and connected to two peers. Is that the whole user base? I can connect to three peers now ;D It's a shame the app won't connect to Tor and I2p at the same time. As a lot more people use Tor. Is it still being developed this project ??? Does it make sense to still donate to the donation wallet address in the GitHub Wiki ??? Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: jtimon on December 22, 2012, 05:57:24 PM Atomic trades could be possible using this software now with colored coins.
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: K1773R on December 22, 2012, 06:37:39 PM Is this project still being developed? I downloaded it and got it running and connected to two peers. Is that the whole user base? I can connect to three peers now ;D It's a shame the app won't connect to Tor and I2p at the same time. As a lot more people use Tor. Is it still being developed this project ??? Does it make sense to still donate to the donation wallet address in the GitHub Wiki ??? Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: ArsenShnurkov on January 18, 2013, 02:37:26 AM I think the following factors lead to the failure of this p2p-exchange:
1) absence of raw internet version 2) weird development technology (should be c++/qt) 3) absence of internet site 4) no articles, video tutorials on yourtube 5) no promotion on blogs, news feeds, etc 6) absence of partner program (for established exchangers, who can accept wire transfers) just compare it's marketing strategy with mtgox's one Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: phelix on March 19, 2013, 10:02:44 PM I think the following factors lead to the failure of this p2p-exchange: Was this for real? I thought it was just an idea. LOL. A pitty, though.1) absence of raw internet version 2) weird development technology (should be c++/qt) 3) absence of internet site 4) no articles, video tutorials on yourtube 5) no promotion on blogs, news feeds, etc 6) absence of partner program (for established exchangers, who can accept wire transfers) just compare it's marketing strategy with mtgox's one Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: xeverse on March 28, 2013, 11:49:06 PM How realtime market datafeeds are managed?
Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: carborundum on April 10, 2013, 08:09:19 PM How realtime market datafeeds are managed? I like this idea. Centralised exchanges are a weakness in Bitcoin. I'll get reading and maybe get involved Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: papaminer on April 10, 2013, 08:43:32 PM This is very good....
ALL MINERS SHOULD ALL USE THIS... LEAVE EXCHANGES!!!!!!! Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: alberthendriks on April 10, 2013, 09:56:56 PM Hi all,
Don't get too enthusiastic yet. I've done some research today on p2p exchanges. Indeed, the dark exchange is brilliant. I've read all pages today. They do run into some trouble though: how can you make sure the dollars for the btc are transfered. And how do you do that decentralized? My conclusion, which I'm discussing with user "ConceptPending", is that there are p2p bitcoin exchange projects that solve this. Yes, there are other projects that have the same goal as this topic. One of them is p2px. It doesn't have any code yet but the concept is right. The other one is bitcoinx. It has code, a website, and an hour ago I decided to join them (I'm going to spend 2 months of fulltime coding). So don't forget to explore your options before joining anything! Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: matthewh3 on April 10, 2013, 10:08:10 PM Hi all, Don't get too enthusiastic yet. I've done some research today on p2p exchanges. Indeed, the dark exchange is brilliant. I've read all pages today. They do run into some trouble though: how can you make sure the dollars for the btc are transfered. And how do you do that decentralized? My conclusion, which I'm discussing with user "ConceptPending", is that there are p2p bitcoin exchange projects that solve this. Yes, there are other projects that have the same goal as this topic. One of them is p2px. It doesn't have any code yet but the concept is right. The other one is bitcoinx. It has code, a website, and an hour ago I decided to join them (I'm going to spend 2 months of fulltime coding). So don't forget to explore your options before joining anything! Users will loose nothing in setting this up other than five minutes of there time. As all actual BTC and fiat trading is done off the app. This app just matches orders and could do with some development. Although as shown by the (new) Ripple project unless the development can be monetised it's a lot less likely to happen. Thanks for the heads-up I will check out p2px and bitcoinx but a dark/deepnet p2p exchange is the best option IMO especially as more alt-coins gain momentum. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: rpgreseller on May 07, 2013, 04:16:57 AM Any interest in developing a decentralized marketplace, not an exchange. I.e. I can sell a fountain pen or keyboard on a P2P eBay system?
I developed for PlayerAuctions.com, and I want to create a decentralized marketplace. I.e. I'm a developer seeking link minders. Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: leathan on February 07, 2015, 08:54:33 AM Not sure how this is going and have put 0 work into it but im curious? how is this going?
I thought superNET was the decentralized exchange? Title: Re: Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange Post by: cbeast on February 07, 2015, 09:10:38 AM Any interest in developing a decentralized marketplace, not an exchange. I.e. I can sell a fountain pen or keyboard on a P2P eBay system? I developed for PlayerAuctions.com, and I want to create a decentralized marketplace. I.e. I'm a developer seeking link minders. http://cdn.head-fi.org/3/38/387e003f_HolyNecroPost_759032.jpeg |
