Bitcoin Forum

[XPM] Investment Analysis: Why Primecoin is Useless, Doomed to Fail? (http://ecoinomist.com/xpm-investment-primecoin-useless-doomed-fail)

1) Primecoin is not a Commodity

Unlike Bitcoin, there is no cap to how many Primecoins will be made. What determines XPM production rate is the demand. XPM is not scarce – this is what drives BTC prices up constantly.

Due to difficulty algorithm of Prime, here is what happens:

Demand Increase -> Supply Decrease

Demand Decrease -> Supply Increase

 (higher demand -> higher difficulty -> less reward per block, but the rate of block generation per day is dynamically adjusted by the client to be stable at approximately 1400 blocks per day. => that means higher demands leads to less Primecoins production rate per day).


==========
That means when demand plummets, Primecoin price can bottom out to zero, but when demand rises fast, its price can sky rocket above BTC's level very easily.

This characteristic, while appealing to day traders, because of huge price swings as we have observed (http://ecoinomist.com/xpm-primecoin-price-bottomed), is a bad element for long term investors - unlike bitcoin, there is no guarantee or a logical prediction that each XPM you hold will gain value in the future .

Put it this way: when demand decreases, the difficulty will drop, that means there will be more Primecoins mined everyday, but since no one wants them anymore, it will be unprofitable for miner to keep mining, so they give up, leading to more difficulty drop, which means even more Primecoins will be generated, and so on... until everyone have a huge stash of Prime worth exactly nothing (by which time your investment has evaporated). This is why it's a very bad idea to invest in Primecoin.

2) Primecoin is not a Currency

Prime is less secure than bitcoin, more prone to 51% attack (attack can happen with even less than 50% priming power) as stated in white paper.

Prime still takes minutes to confirm, not 3-4 seconds like Visa => no average Joe will ever use it, even if Sunny has plans to promote it, speaking of which...

There is no plan for any further development. This start to look like PPC - pump and dump scheme, just waiting for the next Primecoin alt to be released with a few parameters changed, like different difficulty algo, for example.

Besides that, Primecoin is pretty much a Bitcoin clone with different hashing algorithm.

3) Conclusion

If you release a new PrimeClone that is exactly the same as Primecoin but with limited, lets say, 20M coins cap, it will quickly get more interest than Primecoin, because your PrimeClone will be scarce and will attract long term investors.

Demand is simply perception,

Perception is based on believes,

When people stop believing all the crap talk about Primecoin, such as usefulness for scientific research (because some smart mathematicians have spoken out in this forum confirming no validity of such arguments, but pure speculations) the demand will fall. Shortly followed by price drop and VPS mining farms down.

By the time only botnet scammers remain operating, Primecoin is over, paving way for PrimeClone or something else, or perhaps Sunny can make a new coin based on new innovative hashing algorithm!

Even his supporters got pissed when he announced Primecoin last month!
This is hilarious, check it out. (http://www.ppcointalk.org/index.php?topic=288.msg1554#msg1554)

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Rumor/Truth? (you decide!)

Same problem with fiat, no cap on how much is in circulation, very inflationary.

I don't agree with you with many points and I don't think your claims are logically argumented/supported.  But I do welcome negativity coming from your post, as I would like to rebuy some of xpm at cheap prices, just like last time :))

This guy has been mining primecoin since day 1.  He's just trying to drive the price down so he can buy more. i wouldn't put any stock in this drivel.

+1

I mine XPM since day 1, still mining. I don't agree with the OP, but still... apart from the innovative algorithm, primecoin is just... a coin. Like the others. I don't see why primecoin should be the chosen coin to survive while others will die.

What reasons are there for primecoin to survive? (please no "primes help science" , these chains we are finding are virtually useless for science)

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2013/08/14/xpm-why-primecoin-is-useless-doomed-to-fail/

When did anyone say primecoin confirms in seconds?
- Link?

I am not expecting you to link me to your blog.

It isn't only a different hashing algorithm...  Primecoin has so far
proven more energy efficient, and increased likelihood for most computer users to mine XPM.

Sure, it won't get you to mine a lot of primecoins daily,
but at least it is possible for those with no hope.

At least with Primecoin, I can go to bed knowing, we made progress for future benefits.
I rather ask the next generation of tech boomers, 10 years from now,
how and why these are useful to them with their current technology.
Maybe, you won't see a benefit now or maybe you will. Let's see.

Which group are you going to be apart of... 
The people walking and taking action in the search for primes? and better our technology?

This article says exactly the same thing as you just posted here.  This is such sensationalist writing, just to try to get clicks to your blog.  You are adding nothing to the community but FUD.

I seriously doubt these prime numbers we find have any purpose at all, now or in the future :)

There not prime numbers, they are Cunningham chains.

http://primes.utm.edu/notes/faq/why.html

Some say they are looking for the mathematical fingerprint of God, like Carl Sagan wrote about Pi in his book Contact.

Or http://rense.com/RodinAerodynamics.htm

Perhaps they are just nutters.

Integration of FPU

Yep. If it were something deemed academically important, a lot more than a few hundred/thousand CPUs in a small community would be working on it. I'm not suggesting that this vein (prime chains) has no purpose or will have no purpose, but the amount of work being done on primecoin will not be significant. If it is found that these chains are of extreme importance for some reason, the work of primecoin could be overshadowed in a very short period of time.

I don't dislike primecoin, but it doesn't do an appreciable amount of work over a normal hashed coin. It might be a step along the road towards improving the value of hashing, but more than likely it is just making the botnets richer.

I would be more than happy to eat crow, but it shall remain to be seen.

Agreed. Imo, there will be bagholders. They can then be happy that they served science  8)

Thats big problem, and attack can happen any time as happened with some other alts.

OP is on record as heavily backing Emunie - a closed source, heavily pre-mined crypto currency. The supply of which also varies with demand.

Primecoin is not a currency because it takes 1 minute to confirm? Unlike Bitcoin which takes 5 times longer? lol what a dumbass. Bitcoin was ruled as real money by a US district court this week. Literally nothing in the OP makes any logical sense, can't decide if OP is genuinely mentally challenged or is just trolling with FUD. Probably a combination since he thinks his Internet Explorer logo ripoff was a solid contribution towards the Emunie project.

I think I should address a major issue in your first point.

You say that the supply of primecoins is bound to increase until primecoins are worthless,
but you make the mistake of assuming that demand for primecoins, and computing power bent on mining primecoins are the same.

Given primecoins design where reward falls inversely to difficulty,

The upcoming primecoin gpu miners should make it so that the difficulty rises to the point where even slight interest shall be able to keep the supply of new primecoins negligible, especially given how most miners have gpu based rigs, which should become unprofitable in the next few months.

Hence the supply of primecoins should be very dear, even if for some reason demand for primecoins falls.

OP forgot to mention that the block rate and moneysupply are rather stable due to the block reward varying with difficulty.
http://cryptometer.org/primecoin_90_day_charts.html
If anything, then higher (mining) demand increases supply and lower (mining) demand decreases it due to the diff algo not retargeting instantly.

Fud more please. XPM is useless now, its too expensive, because VPS' folks are cashin in now instead of us, hard working traders :)

useless dump dump dump

cya at 0.0051?


// i'm just trolling



OP does not understand the implications of new technology.......... :) Whatever.


The more people don't understand the economy, the easier it is to make $$$.

yep, but its a moot point. the only reason bitcoin is perceived as inefficient(even though it has  a technical efficiency rating of 98.7%) is probably due to the price ber bitcoin in relation to the price of electricity. should bitcoins dramatically increase in price, this becomes a moot argument, and primecoin will be bereft of its biggest selling point over bitcoin.

bull fucking shit, if you aint got 30 fucking servers or a botnet you aint getting shit with primecoin. stop lying.

hmm, now you contradict your claim that primecoin "increases likelihood for most computer users to mine XPM." just stick to the facts next time. you and the OP both get a FUD rating in my opinion cuz neither one of you stick to facts.


I can see  how someone would easily be goaded into believing that prime chains just mean so much to science, and they are so much more energy efficient, but the reality is, they are of speculative value to science at best, meaning they theoretically have value, but at present time there is no need for them? Bitcoin was created to be secure and thats what it is, the most secure banking system ever invented. i could give 3 fucks less if its "inneficient".  the only reason we perceive it that was the low value due to small userbase. this point in bitcoin history reminds me of the great depression. this too shall pass.

Wow, a completely new insight for me.

I already addressed this economical movement of GPU miners from Bitcoin to Litecoin and eventually Primecoin (http://ecoinomist.com/xpm-primecoin-price-bottomed) if no new Prime alt is born.

And again, I have to repeat what Smoothie (a guy who probably has more LTC then all you guys posting here have combined):
.

And I doubt demand for Primecoin can last when something new more exciting comes out, or maybe just PrimeClone with one simple difference: cap maximum number of coins at 20M after 10 years, for example.

So having a bag of LTC makes you wise?

I have nothing to do with @maco's post, in fact, I even posted some truth on his "HostForBit" xpm cloud mining post that he did not like very much.

So @r3wt, why don't you zip it and stop spreading FUD yourself?

No, having lots of LTC means he can dictate whether you'll get your XPM at a pennie or a dollar, and he has seen more things happening to this Cryptocurrency theme (including price history, ups and downs, economic movements, etc.) than most people in this forum.

r3wt. You clearly showed some evidence to why people should listen to you.
'Hey, look... I can point fingers and call names! on the internet' -r3wt
Is this not you?

I am pointing out how it is more possible to mine XPM than LTC/BTC... and how it has been more energy efficient - Fact from my end... Not going into much details here.
Have you ran the tests, I doubt you have...  Got your LTC mining utility bill vs BTC vs XPM? doubting it.

Regardless of having 30 servers or 456 or 1 - My point is, OP simply lied about his fact. I supported it with my opinions, and some facts from my own research.
You look like you are just passing through, so if you could careless, why bother posting here?

:)

@eCoinomist
I do not dislike you or like you or judge based on your personal attacks...

What I do not like is, you claim primecoin has claimed seconds of confirmations.  I need source of this, or we are all wasting our time posting here.

I wasn't even talking to you fucktard. why don't you zip it

lol, you still stretched the truth just as much as the op. neither one of you is right, both exaggerate. the truth is somewhere in between each of your stances. and yes, i've mined primecoin. i pulled in  afew blocks on day one before the botnets took control. sold out for a tidy profit arount .015/coin

and yeah, your 20 vps instances are definitely more energy efficient. do they even make a dollar a day? i make a dollar a day off of two cheap little block eruptors. talk about bang for your buck. i'll be living in the real world. send me a postcard from fairytale makebelieveland, would ya?

What can we do about botnets? Present a solution and I shall listen. They exist everywhere, so what can you do about it? Just move along or take action?
Everything has challenges. You think the real world is a perfect place... that is how it sounds... based on the fairytale you are living in, it is a perfect world.

Can we stop feeding OP's thread... OP has yet to prove his statements.

1) Lmao, where did I attack you personally?
I was posting facts and numbers.

2)

Can you please be kind enough to point out to my ignorance where exactly did I say primecoin confirms in seconds? I think I may be blind because I try to search though this post, as well as my own site, though all XPM articles (http://ecoinomist.com/xpm-primecoin) and I've yet to fine that line of text... ???

'Prime still takes minutes to confirm, not 3-4 seconds like Visa'

You were speaking in terms as if this was said somewhere... it was never compared to VISA or said to be 3-4 seconds or even close.
I don't understand your sentence relationship between VISA and Primecoin.  That is why I am asking you to prove how you got this relationship in the first place?

    I will concede you on one point there is nothing we can do about the botnets. what i will not concede is the premise that primecoin is anything more than pseudo science, making its intrinsic value only theoretical, ie. speculative at best.

    this was discussed ad nauseum during the early days of the Primecoin thread. Most of us who know are in agreement on the points i've just laid out(intrisic value is speculative, primechain use is debatable irl).

    Does this mean i think Primecoin is a scam? no.

    In summation, I think that Primecoin is a big step in the right direction, and is a novel concept of adding real world value to a virtual cryptocurrency, and in its present form, is nothing less than that and nothing more.

I think the biggest question is, where do we go from here? It makes me wonder what Sunny's up to now. I think alot of people will feel better about Primecoin when the GPU miner becomes available. Atleast i will.

Primecoin did confirm in 6 seconds, back on July 13th, if you want to be specific, there was at one point 6 blocks in 6 seconds.

That was during the initial difficulty adjustment period.
Target time is 1 minute, which is a bit more interesting than the 10 minute BTC target unless you view payments as complete only after 60 confirmations... But it's nowhere near a few seconds.

Anyway, the question of usefulness is open just as for most alt coins. Experiments are useful, and I still see bitcoin and the various alt coins as an experiment. Primecoin undeniably adds a new twist that's worth exploring.
Whether a coin is suitable as a payment vehicle or a store of value depends on much more than its technical attributes only. At the moment, no alt coin can beat bitcoin in market acceptance, but even bitcoin is a niche currency when you see it from a global perspective.

Onkel Paul

i agree with this.

x67

Will Bitcoin survive 1000000000000 more years? Probably no. Will Primecoin exist that long? Probably no. Will Bitcoin exist tomorrow and will Primercoin? Yes, yes. Everything is doomed, life-span iss unkown. Question is: How much money can you get from trading it, before it dies? Personally I think Primecoin will make new highs before it dies - hence you might double your money if you buy now. I do and I buy a lot.

Demand is simply perception,

Perception is based on believes,

So when one stops believing all the crap talk about Primecoin, such as usefulness for scientific research (because some smart mathematicians have spoken out in this forum confirming no validity of such arguments, but pure speculations) the demand will fall. Shortly followed by price drop and VPS mining farms down.

By the time only botnet scammers remain operating, Primecoin is over, paving way for PrimeClone or something else, or perhaps Sunny can make a new coin based on new innovative hashing algorithm!

Even his supporters got pissed when he announced Primecoin last month!
This is hilarious, check it out. (http://www.ppcointalk.org/index.php?topic=288.msg1554#msg1554)

Move along kids nothing smart to read here, only some whores holding crap coinz being pissed on new coinz with more worth!

isnt xpm almost worth $1 now? i thought i saw it at .89c per xpm yesterday.

Yeah it was even ~1.4$ or so, you see why some retards try to talk crap.... the war of alt coinz just started, its gona be even worst in future, for crap coin to profit you must bash talk all the others

https://i.imgur.com/IuJrm.gif

Srsly. The butthurt is strong with this one.

Compared to BTC and LTC the price is shooting up really quick when looking at how old XPM is. Even if they say the cunningham chains have no use to the science community "at the moment" at least its a unique proof of work. And from what ive heard, so take it with a grain of salt. But attempting to divide prime numbers is harder than breaking SHA and Scrypt when the digits are high enough.

Can you elaborate who's butthurt?

Last time I posted that the price has bottomed out and it did.

Did I say anything about how the price will change from now? No I didn't.

Do I know where it will go? Probably.

Back to question #1 - oh wait - I see who is butthurt now ;)

eCoinomist: Thank you for your thread and i accept any feedback, being constructive or otherwise. But it seems almost every point you brought up could be said about any coin. Why do you think Primecoin is more useless than others?

It requires special miners, the bread an butter of mining is things like cgminer which doesn't work for xpm.

Thats because it crunches prime numbers, not SHA or Scrypt like cgminer is designed to do. Thats like designing a wallet that holds all types of coins regardless of currency structure.

Also to those who thing finding 9+ digit primenumber is scientically important, havent heard from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Internet_Mersenne_Prime_Search
they have 150+ Tflops/s in it and have found primes which has 12.5+ Million digits.

Errr it's not 9+ digits, it's a 9-chain (or 8- or 10-) or whatever

Primecoin does have purpose other than solving for primes. It's meant as an attack for mining market share. The plan is that this will help gain acceptance of PPCoin in the long term. Whether this actually happens we'll have to wait and see.

Sunny King says it best here:

http://www.ppcointalk.org/index.php?topic=288.msg1715#msg1715 (http://www.ppcointalk.org/index.php?topic=288.msg1715#msg1715)

So why isn't there a fork of cgminer to crunch primes? Oh wait, I forgot, it's come from the same line as PPC that doesn't even have p2pool yet does it? But other PPC/PoS forks do:

http://www.ppcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265.0

Seems Sunny King has to call the shots, it's not a community effort. So you end up with a quirky coin that's hard to software support. Still waiting for XPM to appear on coinchoose.





That post says little other then FUD about LTC and PoW, it claims PoS is better then doesn't say why! There is a mining industry with millions of dollars invested around PoW coins. They are not going to go away in a hurry. Sunny seems to miss the point about the energy cost of mining. Human labor is required to provide the energy, thus creating intrinsic value for the coin. PoS want to remove that intrinsic value under the guise of energy efficiency, I see this as counter productive.

Who cares what the PPC supporters said a month ago?  What are they saying today?  

Personally I laugh over you "smart mathematicians" comment.  Some of the most intelligent math people I know are downright stupid when it comes to dealing with people and real world things.  I once commented in a math thread how 2^9(512) was twice as large as 2^8(256) and a PhD jumped all over me saying it was only 1.125 times as large.  Technically we were both right, 256*2=512 and 9/8=1.125, but it depends on your point of view, and i caused one heck of an unintentional flame war over a simple statement.

Primecoin does have value other than electricity waste, just as the concept behind Curecoin has value other than electricity waste.  The work done on primecoin may one day be usable on things like curecoin, your statements lack insight.  Bitcoin will just continue to be a waste of electricity.

Your point on the 'no limit' VS limit, while intriging, is also kind of shoprtsighted.  Look at playstation for example.  When the PS3 came out, the people who got one of the first ones eagerly sold them to people who had to be 1st and made a bundle.  I bought my PS3 over a year after the release and I paid the same as the people who got the 1st ones.  Millions of PS3's have been produced since I bought mine, but I can still buy a new one for roughly what I bought mine at.

Now look at Magic the Gathering.  Bitcoin = Beta, Litecoin = Unlimited, ?coin = Revised and all the other altcoins = the various expansions.  MTG is both limited and unlimited in a way, kinda like the various crytpocoins.  I remember Ice Age coming out and getting a Jester's Cap, worth $50 at the time!  Since some of the early cards were over $2,000 I held on to it.  Today it's worth $5 and some of those $2,000 cards are under $400 and some has gone up insanely (mainly due to CGC grading).  No one cared THAT much about grading when they were $2000, but boy they sure do now.  Bitcoins don't have that luxury though, they aren't all that rare (I've mined over 5 BTC total between mining it and ALT coins) and their value depends on demand.  April's jump to $250 after it 'went public' and people wanted one lasted microseconds.  The recent plummet to $60 showed a lot of people bailing on it.  The current price seems close to the 'stable point', but that depends on the next hype or bailout.

If you want to use real-world terms, Bitcoin is technically *not* a currency, it is a commodity, like Gold, Silver, Tin, Iron, etc.  People call the halving of block rewards similar to Gold mining... the longer you mine the less is left available to find.  Bitcoin will end up like Gold today... mined by a stubborn few indivduals for the minute flecks and chunks they find and mass-mined by corporations as long as the cost does not exceed the income.  The more BTC climbs in price, the more you will see huge hubs mining it just like the gold mining companies useing acid-leeching to get the last minute dregs of gold from a huge pile of dirt.

Where does that leave Primecoin?  I see Primecoin as iron to BTC's gold.  There's a heck of a lot of it available to be mined, but it's at a fixed rate due to demand.

ASICs are the gold corporations of the BTC world.  Problem is that they are flooding into the marketplace and soon only the strong will 'survive' as difficulty climbs through the roof.  I think most people's estimates are way off... I forsee bitcoin reaching 1PH by Sept 1 with a likelyhood of 6PH+ by Oct 1.  Maybe now is the time to invest in BTC... the price increase caused by difficulty increases will do more damage to ALL altcoins than all your 'predictions'.

Use it to keep track of relevant URLs and put some weight behind your word with primecoins and profit when others like it.

FUN FACT: The site is run from a server which mined a bunch of coins in the early days...

No, Bitcoing has a cap of about 21million coins, and so do many alt, that makes them commodity with some element of scarcity as I already pointed out in OP.

Most Scrypt miners will need at least 51% of network to do attack, but Primecoin can be taken for less.

I did not compare Primecoin against any other altcoins, but for reference, DigitalCoin has better confirmation speed.

Primecoin's days are numbered, as soon as PrimeClone comes out with some coin cap and better difficulty algorithm.

PS.
There many ppl posting in this thread attacking me personally, but if you analyse their replies, you'll find nothing but FUD.
They are trying to defend Primecoin because most likely they were greedy and just bought in after seeing Primecoin price increase lately.

Non of the disagreeing replies posted here so far has been backed by facts and proofs or logical deduction.

A OP like mine, which is the result of logical analysis and real world experience of mining Primecoin myself, is obviously a threat to these people.

You are just full of shit..... and you have your agenda to talk crap and fud all for you greed and profit with some scam shit you hold

first of all, the primecoin have no cap will not bother anyone, why?
because as network power grow and GPU miners hit there will be deflation and not inflation as you say!

Also you CAN NOT 51% attack if primecoin is mined on ~300 000 CPU`s so you bullshit less then 51% attack is insane!

Also slow diff retarget will not make miners leave coin for few days like FTC crap and your crap coin which you hold!

Also your are insane if you say solo mining is not profitable????, mine one i5 CPU now mine a block in ~3-4 days, so far i have mined 400+ coins in a month that`s like almost 400$!

even with 6-7 blocks a month thats 50$ at least! so just pls STFU

All I hear is the sound of upset troll in here.

1) When GPU hits, there will be huge inflation initially, not deflation, you noob

2) cannot 51% attack 300,000 CPU? Lmao, if GPUs are 50 times faster when it comes out, it won't take more than a handful of Large GPU miners collabrating together to take Primecoin down.

3) I only hold BTC, LTC and XPM atm, so if your say they are crap, then may I know what it is that you are holding which is not crap?

4) I never said solomining is not profitable, so STFU yourself

5) Yeah, right, congratulations for mining a whopping 400 XPM! If I remember correctly, I think I dumped that much in one day. (http://ecoinomist.com/xpm-primecoin-mining-guide-on-linux#sieve). Uhm... I must have been really dumb. :-\

Happy making your $50/month, I really admire your sound business advice :)

51% attack doesn't take the coin down. It just make attacker able to double/triple/whatever-spend.

bitcoin has cap limit 21 million somewhere in future, but you claimed "Unlike Bitcoin, there is no cap to how many Primecoins will be made per year.", which is factually incorrect. Also there is no guarantee bitcoin's reward algorithm will always stay that way, also there is no guarantee that bitcoin's reward algorithm is optimal.



Due to reward algorithm, these claims can be invalidated given the right variable values, variables being hashing speed of technology being used. It is hard to expect supply increase given there will be hashing speed jump in near future.

2) Primecoin is not a Currency


It is just as much currecny as any other crypto-currency. Now if you name it differently, thats semantics.


If you release a new PrimeClone that is exactly the same as Primecoin but with limited, lets say, 20M coins cap,

I have not done calculation, but there is a chance we would have to wait many years to reach 20 million coins. At the rate 15000 day, we would have to wait 3.5 years+ to reach 20 million. I am pretty sure that reward will go down so the time required to reach 20 million coins will be much higher. 3.5 years in crypto world is a lot. Most coins either die or flourish by then.


Basically every other coin has similar weaknesses as you claim for xpm.

Actually, the opposite. Any computer can mine XPM, however, you need dedicated mining rigs to mine all the other non-CPU friendly coins.

What are you going on about? You can't CPU mine XPM with cgminer, as I said, it requires a special miner. You seem to be confusing a miner with a mining rig.

Primecoin is innovative and offers real benefits and efficiency over Bitcoin.

It offers a real diversification point with a completely new security model.

Your economic argument, though valid, is highly theoretical and unrealistic.  I don't think anyone needs to worry about such doomsday scenarios, which could equally apply to other forms of money.

Thus, it would be prudent to mine as many XPM as possible, as its value will be increasing relative to BTC over time.

Why is the OP useless, doomed to fail?

I'm pretty sure XPM has advantages that should make it somewhat suceed (try 51% anyone)?

Yes, it will take Primecoin down because no one will trust it anymore, just like how PowerCoin got killed. (So taken down in this sense is not by brute forcing, but by destroying support for it)


Ok, I have to admit on this one, there was overlooked mistake, removed the "per year" part and now it is factually correct.  Thanks for pointing out :)



Agree, supply will not increase when GPU miners jump in, which will create massive hashing speed jump, but soon after that, it's back to ground 0, because the hashing speed is dictated by demand. So my argument remains valid, until Asics for Primes come out, but then again, soon after their arrival, my argument becomes valid again.


I don't think of any existing cryptos as currency, they are pure commodity. To date, only Bitcoin has been declared money by law in Florida.


That's not the point of my conclusion though. The mere fact it has no cap, and has no utility purpose, means Primecoin is lost between a Commodity and Currency, and since it belongs to neither category, it's very safe to assume it will die within a year when an alt like I proposed comes out.


Then why so many people care to reply to this post?

ignored :'(

So the OP just admitted he is dump/pump whore and all he sad and think is to make him profit!
Good job dumping, ppl will just buy your dump and then you are out of the game :P

From my standpoint all of the current cryptos will fail long term.

Newer cryptos will evolve. That is the nature of business and currencies.

So what?

I will still profit from them.

Primecoin is not going away anytime soon.  So I will forgive the OP's ignorance and agenda and laugh all the way to the offline wallet. ;)

Vague statement with little proof.  Look at TRC and FTC, both have been 51% multiple times yet they are still out there.  You need a better arguement.

Disagree.  As shown on http://cryptometer.org/primecoin_90_day_charts.html on day 9, 'supply' (better referred to as minting speed) will increase when GPUs are added just as it did when the massive bot-nets jumped in on day 8-9 and minting speed hit almost 900%.  It took several days for the difficulty to adjust.  Once difficulty stabilizes, minting speed will be much lower than before their implementation, just like the current 10.5 coins per block as compared to Day 3's 19.89/ block avg, day 9's 14.8, and day 20's 11.6.

Your premise is also flawed in that you don't take into account difficulty will inevitably decrease even if 'network hash' remains the same.  Why? non-reuseability.  Since the program is searching between 255 and 2000 bit length primes, you have a finite number of them, which means even if you have 1,000,000 computers crunching away and say difficulty reaches 20 or higher, you're going to run out fo 20 length chains eventually.  Look at any distributed network site and you'll see this.  So the developer would either have to alter the search parameters or eventually difficulty decreases.

You are contradicting yourself.  http://ecoinomist.com/xpm-investment-primecoin-useless-doomed-fail, right there under 1) Primecoin is not a Commodity which you follow up with 2) Primecoin is not a Currency.  You cannot have it both ways. 

A currency (from Middle English curraunt, meaning in circulation) in the most specific use of the word refers to money in any form when in actual use   or circulation, as a medium of exchange, especially circulating paper money.

A commodity is a marketable item produced to satisfy wants or needs.

While most people consider commodities to be tangible, physical goods, in the context here, it works for all crypto currencies.

I can 'purchase' Bitcoins (which is considered money by FL) with primecoins.  With this argument, primecoin IS a currency.  Conversely, I can 'sell' primecoins for bitcoins.  Using this argument, primecoin IS a commodity.  As noted by the prior poster, your inference is semantics.
By your conclusion, Bitcoin should have died when Namecoin came out.  In addition, Litecoin should have died when BBqcoin came out.  The fact that there is/isn't a cap doesn't make a difference here, you are making an errorneous assumption.

Is Corn a commodity?  Does Corn have a cap?  If all farmers produce less Corn, does price increase?  If all farmers produce more corn does price decrease?

With the advent of GPUs, Primecoin will become scarcer to get.  If they ever create a primecoin ASIC they will become even scarcer.  Why would people then STOP mining?  By your logic, if we stop, then the coin becomes less scarce and therefore less valuable.  Logic would also dictate only a fool would stop mining under these circumstances.



All of that aside, maybe primecoin does have flaws, but it also has a lot going for it.  Maybe Sunny should have done an 'inverse difficulty' and started off looking for 20 length chains at 20 or more coins per block.  If minting speed is too slow, drop to length 19 and 19 coins and continue.  It's a given that difficulty will inevitably go down, but with this if you have only 100 computers searching they may be stuck at 4 or 5 difficulty and getting 4 or 5 coins per block, but you toss in the bot nets and you start getting 7-10 coins per block.  Add in the GPUs and maybe you get 13-15 coins per block.  IT'S NOT INFINITE THOUGH!  Eventually you will run out of primes unless you change the search parameters.

1.) There is FTC and TRC to invalidate your point 1. FTC being the best example.

2.) "Back to ground 0" claim is unsupported. You provided 0 facts to support "back to ground 0 claim". Nowhere "back" to go, no "0" to go to. It should stay profitable to mine just like most other coins are profitable to mine to some extent. There is nothing magically broken with xpm that works on other coins to make it go "down to 0". Even MNC, that has extremely low block reward compared to current supply - is profitable to mine on occasions.

3.) As I said, it is about semantics. For someone it is a currency, for someone else it is a commodity, and for a third guy it could be just e-tokens or whatever. I am not really interested what word do you use to describe xpm.

That's not the point of my conclusion though. The mere fact it has no cap, and has no utility purpose, means Primecoin is lost between a Commodity and Currency, and since it belongs to neither category, it's very safe to assume it will die within a year when an alt like I proposed comes out.

Yes, your point is that the coin does not have a hard cap. That is true. But a coin not having hard cap doesn't not support this claim ==> The mere fact it has no cap, and has no utility purpose, means Primecoin is lost between a Commodity and Currency, and since it belongs to neither category, it's very safe to assume it will die within a year when an alt like I proposed comes out.

1. ) It has no cap, but it is limited in supply.
2. ) It doesn't matter whether you call it commodity or currency. It still does the same thing no matter what you call it and no matter what properties do you apply to term "commodity" or term "currency". And just because you can't put them into category you would wanted to, we can't conclude the coin will die for that reason. Basically you are saying "the coin will die because I said so" and that was obvious at original post. So anyone saying that you are full of shit is pretty accurate.


Then why so many people care to reply to this post?


Because they are involved with xpm, duh?

Ignore op, best solution  :-\

I don't understand why people think that a currency should have a cap on it's total supply, are economies a fixed size?

I think the desire for a supply cap stems from early investors wanting to ensure that their hordes are ever increasing in value, ie. completely greed driven.

The population of the planet is growing, and so is the size of the economy, so the currency needs to also grow with the economy.

Lets look at this: if btc is used by 1/10th of the population.. there isn't enough coins so that everyone would own just 1 of it, even if all of them were mined..
so XPM might actually be better off without a cap?

Exactly, any coin without a set cap will do better in the long run than a capped coin.

What GPU miner?

There are more factors involved too, but if we're looking in the future 10-50 years and more, yes.

I'm sorry but how does any of that relate to Primecoin not being a currency?

There's a reason why it's called cryptocurrency; Primecoin can be used as a medium of exchange and therefore can be defined as a currency.

I have no idea why you fluffed up that part of your argument with so much bullshit. Having a longer confirm time than a credit card does not mean that Primecoin cannot be considered as a currency.

So Bitcoin is not a currency either?

Not a good currency I think is what he meant.

Yes, Corn has a limited cap to how many you can produce (currently that is resources on Earth to grow corn). Corn does not need to have a cap to be a commodity, because it has utility purpose to either feed humans/animals or used in industrial applications.

What use does Primecoin have besides speculation?

This is not how the dynamics works. Ultimately it's demand that dictates difficulty. Ppl only mine it even if they have asics when it's profitable, and this has been proven again and again with all the alts, like PPC, NMC, WDC, FTC, etc.

You certainly have a point there, agreed.

Your article [XPM] Why Primecoin is Useless, Doomed to Fail? - a good example anti-Primecoin propaganda  ;D

WTS 1 Ham and Cheese Sandwich for 10 XPM.


Now theres a market for Primecoin with a real physical Product being delivered at the end of it (albeit fairly stale), Does that now mean that your arguement is invalid?

Stop hating and go buy some XPM then sell them in 1 years time and be a happy bunny like everyone else ;-)

either that or just concede the arguement, more people have posted better explanations destroying your arguement so your currently fighting a losing battle, If XPM does fall over (which is possible for every single currency on the planet just check out some fiats from recent months.) then feel free to come back and post an "I told you so" post but for now it looks like all your doing is cementing your position without any room to move further down the line.

All the best

Primecoin is not useless. It allows people to find longer Cunningham chains. It's an interesting pastime -- more interesting , say, than collecting bottle caps. Even if cryptocurrencies cease to exist, hobbists can run primecoin-qt to find prime chains and be happy if one of them claims to be the human who first finds a record length Cunningham chain, and with a cool block address, time-stamped in the blockchain no less, to prove it.

Primecoin is already a success in breaking CC length records. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=253409.0
It is useful already. Whether you care about it or not is irrelevant.  

The real question is... what can we do with those long CCs. What use and value do they have? From what ive been told is you can use those CCs to build stronger algorithms.

We can prove or disprove existing conjectures on the nature and distribution of prime numbers.

But what function would that have in real world applications?

That's debateable. I'm sure there are world records for climbing the highest tree or eating the biggest cake in like 30 min. That doesn't make those records or actions useful.

Really, Cunningham chain's aren't that useful and I'm sure 95% of the miners don't care about the CC.

Like it or not, Primecoin gives a chance to make HUGE profits to people with access to a few CPU's/Servers, and it's thanks to those CC/Primecoin believers that they can sell their mined coins at that high a price. I am one of them.

Your argument is based on the assumption that Primecooin will be used by everyone as a currency, which is unlikely to happen 99^99^(99)% of the time.

Please tell of a single word I wrote that indicates I "hate" primecoin?
In regards to buying Primecoin, I think I already have enough of it for now (in 4 digits, btw).

My OP was simply my logical conclusion about primecoin and where I see it heading, speaking from perspective of someone who has:

1) mined it since day 1
2) mined more than 90% percentile of all XPM miners
3) has seen the up and down of its price from the lowest to the highest
4) have correctly predicted previous price movement (http://ecoinomist.com/xpm-primecoin-price-bottomed).

Take it or leave it, and keep believing in Primecoin's scientific value if you wish, but framing me for hating won't save Primecoin.

Money has three functions: unit of account, medium of exchange and store of value. A good currency must do all three well, not just one.

A fixed cap scarcity model is not the ideal scarcity model in my opinion. It's not similar to gold, it's actually stronger than gold's scarcity, gold does not have a cap in its supply, unless you are talking about mass of the earth.

Both Primecoin and PPCoin employ a scarcity model more closely resembling gold. No fixed cap in supply, but scarce nonetheless.

In my opinion, a fixed cap scarcity model is too strong that necessarily sacrifices other functions of the system in the long run, for example, premature weakening of security, or uncompetitive transaction cost.

Things are unveiling fast. Three years from now with another halving bitcoin would no longer be the most secure cryptocurrency against 51% attacks. This is because security is measured by network mining income for pure proof-of-work currencies, and by which measure bitcoin network is losing its share at a fast pace.

http://coinchoose.com/charts.php

Take your pick then, prospects of less security and shrinking market share with a 'comforting' cap hoping for a better value gain, or a more realistic scarcity model with better long term security?

OP defeated; by the King himself.

The  usefulness of a hoby is if people can have fund doing it. People look for record as a hobby long before Primecoin existed. Finding a CC with a new length record is like finding a new piece of jigsaw of our universe. Once you have discovered it it's your record forever. As a pastime primecion's usefulness is not debatable.


Here we go again. I think 98% people of the world don't think or know cryptocurrencies are useful. By your logic  cryptocurrencies are useless? 

The only reason I'm still running a primecoin node is BECAUSE I believe in the proof of work it uses.

My pick is always the more realistic scarcity model, like that of Decrits or eMunie for example, where supply adjusts to demand proportionately, not inversely proportionate like that of Primecoin.

Your argument of Primecoin being scarce is only true based on the assumption that demand for Primecoin is on a constant linear increase. And as we have seen so far, this is not the case, because I have been observing demand for it closely since the begining.

But when that demands weakens, the opposite is true, Primecoin's security not only quickly weakens, it's value is also quickly lost, due to the new unnecessary rising inflation from difficulty drop, resulting in faster XPM production rate.

Three years from now Bitcoin will still be most secure cryptocoin, because it is most usefull coin and thus most valued. If some coin has 1/10 value of Bitcoin it is reasonable to assume the coin is 1/10 as secure

Pretty much yeah. You don't think the masses are getting into BTC are you?

"Hey there's this digital currency, right now it's mined by ASICS (what), but you can buy a BTC for 100$!"

I don't believe in global acceptance of (alt)coins no, is that wrong

If Avalon didn't sell its mining rigs and chips to the public but instead got private venture capital and mined coins for Avalon itself, it would have easily  been able to take over Bitcoin and all sha256 based cryptocurrecnies by sheer dominant hashing power.

Avalon didn't do it because, by pure luck, its founder happens to have the decentralization ideal. Avalon's 110nm technology is nothing cutting edge. I don't see why can't anyone fund a way cooler, hence more powerful, 40nm ASIC miner in a period of 6-12 months. BTC is a legal currency now. It's a viable business. If the new miners are 3 times more powerful than all Avalons, it can take over ~70% of the hashing power.  The dominant role of BTC sure makes it a lightning rod to attract attackers.

If that happens or looks like going to happen, considering the difficulty to exchange BTC to a fiat currency, I see a huge drop of BTC price (hence more miners abundoning mining BTC) and a hugh number of BTC owners piling into alt cryptos.

A simple no is enough for this.

My eyes burn just looking at the stupidity in this thread.

As someone new to Primecoin, it seems that it was created to be only beneficial to early miners in the first month, with little profit or incentive for future miners.

In the first two weeks of Primecoin's life, over 100,000 coins were generated a day while difficulty was around 7. This means that it was both relatively easy to find blocks and blocks were highly valuable.

http://cryptometer.org/primecoin_90_day_charts.html

In just one month the number of coins generated per day has fallen to ~10K and at the same time it is much more difficult to find a block due to increased difficulty. Which means that the amount of coins received per work falls exponentially since it is both harder to find a block and blocks yield fewer coins.

With GPU mining about to come out soon, the difficulty will rapidly rise and we can expect only ~1K or less coins to be generated per day. This is an insignificant amount compared to the first two weeks.

What this means is that those that got in early (first 1-2 weeks) will have generated most of the coins for themselves, leaving little incentive or room for profit for those not involved in the launch.

I was pretty interested in participating in Primecoin when I first saw it recently, but after exploring more it seems to be designed to overly reward those that launched it with little benefit for anyone else. To me those are not traits for a successful alt coin.

Nice arguments you got there  ;D

If that were the case, you should be denouncing bitcoin and gold rather than making claims that how primecoin's scarcity is inferior to bitcoin.


There is no such assumption, the scarcity is based on Moore's Law, the fact that difficulty and mint rate change with demand is just incidental and temporary effect, which has no bearing on the long term scarcity model.

Your math is wrong. Primecoin mint rate reduction is quite slow you won't see daily production drop below 10K any time soon (diff 12 = 10K daily production, a couple thousand times more difficult than the current difficulty 9.75).

Primecoin is designed to sustain a prosperous mining market long term, yet still have stronger scarcity in the short term (first 4 years) than bitcoin's design. These are conscious design choices. The release was pre-announced 10 days in advance, to ensure no advantage to anyone and a fair initial participation.

That 1 sentance beats almosts everything in this thread  :D

+1

ecoin OBVIOUSLY wants a lot more XPM for himself!   Greedy sum bitch!   The only point of this thread is to try and drive price down.  OP is wrong! 

I think you are deluding yourself, my math above may not be exact, but it is representative. The coin was designed so that those that mined in the early few weeks would capture the vast majority of coins mined, leaving both little opportunity or incentive for others to join later and participate.

Your argument is everyone was free to participate in those first few weeks does not matter, those that did not (who are most people) now have little incentive to join and care about primecoin.

Then it's time to say "goodbye troll".

Shut up and leave us to our mining. 

I started mining less than a week back, and I am making a profit here (however small).  

The problem you seem to have here is that unlike SHA256 and Scrypt based cryptos, there are no specialized GPU miner (yet) and ASICs made for bitcoins do not work in this and that you cannot mine 100s of coins from your laptop. By your argument, the coin is bad just because it is hard to mine does not hold. Similar arguments can be made about bitcoins and Litecoins. Things get harder to mine as time passes by, it's how things work. you just need to make smart choices.

You can buy XPM mining contracts, wait for GPU versions to be rolled out or find a way to rent dedicated servers. I know a few people who are making 1000+ XPMs/day by mining with the right equipment.  It is no different than investing in Bitcoin ASIC rigs.

Although Primecoin follows inflationary concept, it produces not so much coins per year. 1 minute block target results in 525600 blocks per year. If the 1st year average difficulty is 11, the coin supply is 4.4 million only. By the way, it has been 40 days after the release and 1.6 million coins been mined already. Nothing wrong there.

Primecoin cannot be 51% attacked easily. It employs advanced checkpointing just like PPCoin, though it's disabled by default currently. May become mandatory at any moment with a simple client update if necessary.



KnC ASICs are at 28nm already. Current Avalons and Erupters are becoming obsolete.

KnC hasn't proved the viability of 28nm. 40nm ASICS chips have been made already by small groups. Most of the members here never heard of them. All that needed to take over 50+% hash power is someone's investment to organize a private operation.

This is very true, indeed.

PS. Even I, who got involved since launch and probably have mined more than 90% percentile of XPM miners, have no incentive to continue supporting it long term - anyone with real business sense can see clearly the truth behind my OP.

As I explained in OP, you don't really have a "scarcity" model to begin with.

Here is what both Bitcoin and Gold have in common, which is legitimately regarded as "scarce (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/scarce)" by dictionary definition ("not abundant):
- no matter what the demand for Bitcoin or Gold is, the amount of BTC/Gold is caped and production rate only slows down over time in a long term trend (where no major technology break-though happens.)

Primecoin, however, relies on "projected" increasing demand to keep it "scarce", but when demands drops, there is proportionate "abundance" => this does not justify the definition of "scarce" - "not abundant".


"the scarcity is based on Moore's Law"?
Common, you make me Laugh MAO :D  ;D  ::)

I'm sure someone like you knows better than most trolls in this thread that no (alt)coin scarcity can be based on technical Moore's Law, that's not how it works.

History has proven again and again that human "demand" for insufficient supply (or perception there of) is what creates scarcity, not technical limitation of some mathematical or computer algorithms.

Ok, I see that you finally admitted that you did not think through when designing Primecoin's demand/supply system.
Whether that is truly "incidental" or "intentional" - I'll leave to people to judge, based on your PPCoin release history (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=260374.0).

Just because you couldn't understand how Moore's Law regulates inflation in the long term does not mean it doesn't work.

PPC has already demonstrated that it works very well, via an accelerated schedule due to the introduction of ASIC mining. PPC currently has the lowest inflation rate among all top altcoins. How about a collapse in demand? Let's say PPC price drops to 0.0001, 6% of its current price, how about difficulty then, still gonna be at 60K, inflation rate is only going to double at most, still way less inflation than quite a few altcoins such as FTC. That is exactly as designed, Moore's Law would dominate the scarcity model in the long term, demand only plays secondary role in short term.

The scarcity model is by design and of course intentional. It strengthens scarcity in the first four years than bitcoin's design, meanwhile also gives early adopters/investors reasonable advantage. I am pro free market and do not have a jealousy problem toward them, rather I recognize their important roles to help with the growth of the currency.

What you link is propaganda from CMC people. They copied PPC without giving credit yet spread this propaganda about how PPC and XPM (among several other top altcoins) are unfair. Yet they conveniently forget to mention in their malicious propaganda that both PPC and XPM had about 10 days of pre-release notice so the mining public had fair opportunities to participate. Also, both PPC and XPM have no cap, meaning in the long term the seemingly high initial mint quantity would be constantly diluted unlike other coins with cap scarcity model.

Sunny, if price falls and if miners stops mining because price falls and the supply of coins increases because of falling difficulty (yes a lot of if's and perhaps it will not unfold like this but IF it does happen this way [please humor me]): then do you think that it is possible that new miners will step in to mine these easy/cheap coins - hoping that difficulty and then price will go up later on therefor considering it a bargain thus pressing up the difficulty yet again creating aa self-fullfillinng prophecy?

I'm sorry for breaking into discussion. If mining reward becomes small and if there will be a way to short sell, new miners will step in to destroy the currency, not to mine it.

There may very well be speculations on miners' side I don't know, but the point is over long term the effect of Moore's Law plus algorithmic/hardware improvements would overwhelm any demand changes anyways. Demand typically fluctuates within 2 orders of magnitude, while Moore's Law + algorithmic/hardware advancement would reach over 5 orders of magnitude or more over long term. For example in bitcoin network, it went through about 4 orders of magnitude within the first five years.

Again, I must say that your whole theory relies on steady demand for Bitcoin, PPC and XPM alike.

You have not taken into account disruptive technologies, such as Decrits (which is for pure example only - unlikely to ever realize) or eMunie (still in beta, but close to initial launch) that will take over the whole Bitcoin niche (which to date only has about 200K users, max).

In two years from now, Bitcoin has a very high chance of becoming "history" when it comes to functioning as a currency, and may only be used as a store of value by then (a commodity), because new things like eMunie will be able to process transactions in seconds, not minutes - so while not designed to be a "commodity" - it's function is very clear - to be used as a currency and it suppose to do that better than what Visa has already accomplished.

I'm sure Satoshi was very clear about where he wanted to see Bitcoin going over the long term - to function as a commodity and a stepping stone towards decentralized currency revolution - and that is what eMunie is NOT designed to replace (but who knows, maybe someone else will create something better than Bitcoin in the future to be used as Digital Gold!).


That's why I see no future for Primecoin, nor PPCoin, because you don't seem to have planned out a clear direction of where you want to see your coin heading in the long term.

Okay, you stated you do not like it... we understand you do not... can you move along? We get it, you do not care...
if you do not care, stop wasting your time with it. Stop playing business, and do business. Do what you want, and so shall we.

Fair?

Primecoin is useful as more than just a currency though, as said before, hobbyists will still use it even after the pump and dumpers have left.

+1

eCoinomist, I agree with you XPM is pretty useless and that there is no point in keeping them. In fact, you are rather delusional if you hold on to it.

I suggest you transfer all your useless coins (which is about 90% more than most primecoin miners have mined) to this address: ATQLWspVWZBixhzhHqXnP8JWbMbjgHQ9z5

I didn't want to talk on this, but at this point there is no other choice. You don't understand economics, you don't understand computer science that's pretty clear now.

First what is a currency ?
You seem to like VISA business model, but VISA is not a currency, it's a DEBT ISSUER company, just like a bank but without fiat money issuing power (not regulated by fed, ecb, boe, boj...). So if eMunie is a Visa-like scheme it's doomed to fail. Visa/Mastercarcd&co process transactions in few seconds so you're not doing something new, and unlike eMunie, people trust them, they're in business since a while and you know what ? economics and particularly money is about trust.
A currency is a mean of exchange, primecoin can be exchanged
A currency is unit of account, you can basically value anything you want in primecoin, even if his "market cap" (it's better to talk about money supply) isn't large enough to let you buy anything you want
A currency is store of value, that's definitely the most important when it comes to cryptocurrencies, bitcoin included and that's also why regulators want to step in. am I gonna lose my money if I invest in bitcoin/primecoin/whatevercoin. So As long as primecoin keep/increase/manage his value, it's a valid store of value.

You talk about commodities. A commodity is simply anything that can be freely traded so even USD/EUR/JPY are commodities traded on Forex markets. The only difference compared to nature-based commodities is simply Ben Bernanke & co playing roles of "mother nature" for the sake of all of us. You seem to mingle scarcity and commodities.

Now i'll tell you why Primecoin is the best alternative/complement to bitcoin :
-It's fast enough for online transaction. One minute is an acceptable tradeoff for e-commerce. But bitcoin is fine too if you add a layer that can indicate that buyer BTC address has enough funds; nevertheless a fast coin increase Velocity of money and therefore is definitely a plus.
-It can never be merge mined with Bitcoin. So they are two different currencies just as Gold and Silver were.
-It's not a capped coin. Therefore it's still share some characteristics of current fiat money. Continuous supply should stabilize value of XPM and discourage hoarding as value doesn't increase with time. Basically it's like a pure neutral money. World GDP has increased over time (think about before J.C and now), so it's safe to assume a little inflated money to expand innovation and growth.
-Bitcoin won't be the only crypto in town. Friedman in Money Mischief stated that bi or tri-currencies scheme is always better than "monocurrency". I share this view, Gold lost to fiat, because of silver demonetization, so for me bitcoin need altcoins.

Why I picked primecoin among alt-coins satisfying previous statements ?
 - because of his PoW. Gold had intrinsically almost no value other than aesthetic and durability. But there were many durable commodities, so it's probable that people picked Gold and Silver because they were aesthetics. Translated in virtual scheme, Primecoin use of prime numbers is equivalent. For many people (mathematicians) primes are like numbers of God, they seem to follow a pattern and could be seen as very aesthetics.    

You don't like XPM, it's okay. It's a free business. Wait for eMunie and stop wasting your time telling us we're wrong while you don't have a clue about how monetary stuff works.

Bien dit! :)

Same old retaliation posts...

I never said Visa is a currency, stop being ignorant and read the thread before you post.

As far as I know, I use Visa/MasterCard everyday (90% of the time), but they don't print money, it's the central banks that print/create money physically or digitally.

FYI:
http://youtu.be/01IusDeSPE4

This thread is not about eMunie, so please refrain from going off topic and pigging back on other currencies (and it's nothing like Visa, btw).

This line is a pretty clear description of yourself:

Your post is really priceless.

1) You didn't explicitly say VISA is currency/money. You implied this by comparing VISA to Primecoin. If i'm wrong why do you compare apples with oranges ? And be sure that even "average Joe" will see differences.

2) This thread isn't about eMunie? okay then don't refer to this scamcoin

3) You talk about central banks, but your video link is on commercial banks. Central banks create money out of nothing (that's why it's called Fiat, like in Fiat lux!), Commercial banks create money by issuing asymmetric debt (with $10 in assets central banks authorize them to lend 200$). It's certainly not the same business. Again you seem to mingle economics concepts, economics agents and relation between them. You want to learn a bit ? Go an buy G. Mankiw book Principles of Economics (even if it's a keynesian book, it's well written)

My point ? I'm really far far from being a noob in economics, and all your arguments against primecoin are /dev/null . They just show how much you're ignorant. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Ok, I get it, someone may have been butthurt because:

A) They just bought in Primecoin when the prices rose back to 0.009, thinking Primecoin is back to the glorious 0.019 days again
B) Were not in there from day one and just only figured how to mind this thing on VPS, only to find a factual report like mine to show up
C) Still hold lots of XPM, hoping to GRQ one day.

PS. Should I read a book to understand how economics work, because "academic" is my type and I can't think for myself? As a web marketer in an ever changing internet world one thing I noticed is that I tend to trust my own logical analysis, research and experience to find facts. Should I change that way of thinking and listen to the flock, like a sheep?

Thank you very much for your kind book recommendation, which has 3.5 out of 5 star ratings and a large number of reviews (18 so far since 2011 on amazon) - I hope it helps me understand how economics work just like it did to you :)

There is an I missing...


"my own ilogical analysis"

You brought up Emunie first, but now are saying don't go off topic.....

How does one figure out the current supplyof xpm?

XPM supply should be 20-30mln coins (depends how fast GPU and ASIC miner will launch into market)
http://xpm.muuttuja.org/charts/

if nobody could make GPU/ASIC miner for Prime - i heard that the first CPU on graphene would have over 100GHz / 1core

Yes, USD is a failure cause of it's inflation rate, there's no cap on how many $s will be made.

As a result, people now use fossil fuels as a currency, cause it's value always increases.

I got no idea what you buy for investment. Primes? Or coin which has an inflation model like the $, Euro, Yen, Pound sterling, INR etc...

That's why some alt coins and Bitcoin has been so successful because they do have a market cap and don't keep on getting generated.

Yes, coins having an inflation model are a fail --

1) Infinitecoin
2) Quark
3) Zetacoin

And Bitcoins will continue to have inflation more than $s till 2021.

But no, that's not inflation at all. Cause if it would've been inflation, it whould've been fail, but it has NOT failed.

And you can always see the national currency, it's always a fail. People use fossil fuels as currency nowadays.

lol yeah the cap is going to be reached in 2050 or 2090 or whatever...lol "and don't keep on getting generated".

The primecoin chart just showed a double hump down pattern last week, a technical indicator pointing to further weakness ahead. It keeps looking like the predictions of one coin to survive them all is coming true. I'm trying to stay optimistic but it's really hard to.