[XPM] Why Primecoin is Useless, Doomed to Fail?

[xibeijan]

Primecoin is innovative and offers real benefits and efficiency over Bitcoin.

It offers a real diversification point with a completely new security model.

Your economic argument, though valid, is highly theoretical and unrealistic.  I don't think anyone needs to worry about such doomsday scenarios, which could equally apply to other forms of money.

Thus, it would be prudent to mine as many XPM as possible, as its value will be increasing relative to BTC over time.

[1715004159]

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[Lauda]

Why is the OP useless, doomed to fail?

I'm pretty sure XPM has advantages that should make it somewhat suceed (try 51% anyone)?

[eCoinomist]

51% attack doesn't take the coin down. It just make attacker able to double/triple/whatever-spend.

Yes, it will take Primecoin down because no one will trust it anymore, just like how PowerCoin got killed. (So taken down in this sense is not by brute forcing, but by destroying support for it)

bitcoin has cap limit 21 million somewhere in future, but you claimed "Unlike Bitcoin, there is no cap to how many Primecoins will be made per year.", which is factually incorrect.

Ok, I have to admit on this one, there was overlooked mistake, removed the "per year" part and now it is factually correct.  Thanks for pointing out

Due to reward algorithm, these claims can be invalidated given the right variable values, variables being hashing speed of technology being used. It is hard to expect supply increase given there will be hashing speed jump in near future.

Agree, supply will not increase when GPU miners jump in, which will create massive hashing speed jump, but soon after that, it's back to ground 0, because the hashing speed is dictated by demand. So my argument remains valid, until Asics for Primes come out, but then again, soon after their arrival, my argument becomes valid again.

It is just as much currecny as any other crypto-currency. Now if you name it differently, thats semantics.

I don't think of any existing cryptos as currency, they are pure commodity. To date, only Bitcoin has been declared money by law in Florida.

I have not done calculation, but there is a chance we would have to wait many years to reach 20 million coins. At the rate 15000 day, we would have to wait 3.5 years+ to reach 20 million. I am pretty sure that reward will go down so the time required to reach 20 million coins will be much higher. 3.5 years in crypto world is a lot. Most coins either die or flourish by then.

That's not the point of my conclusion though. The mere fact it has no cap, and has no utility purpose, means Primecoin is lost between a Commodity and Currency, and since it belongs to neither category, it's very safe to assume it will die within a year when an alt like I proposed comes out.

Basically every other coin has similar weaknesses as you claim for xpm.

Then why so many people care to reply to this post?

[snaidervp]

ignored

[reb0rn21]

So the OP just admitted he is dump/pump whore and all he sad and think is to make him profit!
Good job dumping, ppl will just buy your dump and then you are out of the game

[ericwt]

From my standpoint all of the current cryptos will fail long term.

Newer cryptos will evolve. That is the nature of business and currencies.

So what?

I will still profit from them.

Primecoin is not going away anytime soon.  So I will forgive the OP's ignorance and agenda and laugh all the way to the offline wallet.

[bcp19]

51% attack doesn't take the coin down. It just make attacker able to double/triple/whatever-spend.

Yes, it will take Primecoin down because no one will trust it anymore, just like how PowerCoin got killed. (So taken down in this sense is not by brute forcing, but by destroying support for it)

Vague statement with little proof.  Look at TRC and FTC, both have been 51% multiple times yet they are still out there.  You need a better arguement.

Due to reward algorithm, these claims can be invalidated given the right variable values, variables being hashing speed of technology being used. It is hard to expect supply increase given there will be hashing speed jump in near future.

Agree, supply will not increase when GPU miners jump in, which will create massive hashing speed jump, but soon after that, it's back to ground 0, because the hashing speed is dictated by demand. So my argument remains valid, until Asics for Primes come out, but then again, soon after their arrival, my argument becomes valid again.

Disagree.  As shown on http://cryptometer.org/primecoin_90_day_charts.html on day 9, 'supply' (better referred to as minting speed) will increase when GPUs are added just as it did when the massive bot-nets jumped in on day 8-9 and minting speed hit almost 900%.  It took several days for the difficulty to adjust.  Once difficulty stabilizes, minting speed will be much lower than before their implementation, just like the current 10.5 coins per block as compared to Day 3's 19.89/ block avg, day 9's 14.8, and day 20's 11.6.

Your premise is also flawed in that you don't take into account difficulty will inevitably decrease even if 'network hash' remains the same.  Why? non-reuseability.  Since the program is searching between 255 and 2000 bit length primes, you have a finite number of them, which means even if you have 1,000,000 computers crunching away and say difficulty reaches 20 or higher, you're going to run out fo 20 length chains eventually.  Look at any distributed network site and you'll see this.  So the developer would either have to alter the search parameters or eventually difficulty decreases.

It is just as much currecny as any other crypto-currency. Now if you name it differently, thats semantics.

I don't think of any existing cryptos as currency, they are pure commodity. To date, only Bitcoin has been declared money by law in Florida.

You are contradicting yourself.  http://ecoinomist.com/xpm-investment-primecoin-useless-doomed-fail, right there under 1) Primecoin is not a Commodity which you follow up with 2) Primecoin is not a Currency.  You cannot have it both ways. 

A currency (from Middle English curraunt, meaning in circulation) in the most specific use of the word refers to money in any form when in actual use   or circulation, as a medium of exchange, especially circulating paper money.

A commodity is a marketable item produced to satisfy wants or needs.

While most people consider commodities to be tangible, physical goods, in the context here, it works for all crypto currencies.

I can 'purchase' Bitcoins (which is considered money by FL) with primecoins.  With this argument, primecoin IS a currency.  Conversely, I can 'sell' primecoins for bitcoins.  Using this argument, primecoin IS a commodity.  As noted by the prior poster, your inference is semantics.

I have not done calculation, but there is a chance we would have to wait many years to reach 20 million coins. At the rate 15000 day, we would have to wait 3.5 years+ to reach 20 million. I am pretty sure that reward will go down so the time required to reach 20 million coins will be much higher. 3.5 years in crypto world is a lot. Most coins either die or flourish by then.

That's not the point of my conclusion though. The mere fact it has no cap, and has no utility purpose, means Primecoin is lost between a Commodity and Currency, and since it belongs to neither category, it's very safe to assume it will die within a year when an alt like I proposed comes out.

By your conclusion, Bitcoin should have died when Namecoin came out.  In addition, Litecoin should have died when BBqcoin came out.  The fact that there is/isn't a cap doesn't make a difference here, you are making an errorneous assumption.

Is Corn a commodity?  Does Corn have a cap?  If all farmers produce less Corn, does price increase?  If all farmers produce more corn does price decrease?

With the advent of GPUs, Primecoin will become scarcer to get.  If they ever create a primecoin ASIC they will become even scarcer.  Why would people then STOP mining?  By your logic, if we stop, then the coin becomes less scarce and therefore less valuable.  Logic would also dictate only a fool would stop mining under these circumstances.



All of that aside, maybe primecoin does have flaws, but it also has a lot going for it.  Maybe Sunny should have done an 'inverse difficulty' and started off looking for 20 length chains at 20 or more coins per block.  If minting speed is too slow, drop to length 19 and 19 coins and continue.  It's a given that difficulty will inevitably go down, but with this if you have only 100 computers searching they may be stuck at 4 or 5 difficulty and getting 4 or 5 coins per block, but you toss in the bot nets and you start getting 7-10 coins per block.  Add in the GPUs and maybe you get 13-15 coins per block.  IT'S NOT INFINITE THOUGH!  Eventually you will run out of primes unless you change the search parameters.

[usahero]

1.) There is FTC and TRC to invalidate your point 1. FTC being the best example.

2.) "Back to ground 0" claim is unsupported. You provided 0 facts to support "back to ground 0 claim". Nowhere "back" to go, no "0" to go to. It should stay profitable to mine just like most other coins are profitable to mine to some extent. There is nothing magically broken with xpm that works on other coins to make it go "down to 0". Even MNC, that has extremely low block reward compared to current supply - is profitable to mine on occasions.

3.) As I said, it is about semantics. For someone it is a currency, for someone else it is a commodity, and for a third guy it could be just e-tokens or whatever. I am not really interested what word do you use to describe xpm.

That's not the point of my conclusion though. The mere fact it has no cap, and has no utility purpose, means Primecoin is lost between a Commodity and Currency, and since it belongs to neither category, it's very safe to assume it will die within a year when an alt like I proposed comes out.

Yes, your point is that the coin does not have a hard cap. That is true. But a coin not having hard cap doesn't not support this claim ==> The mere fact it has no cap, and has no utility purpose, means Primecoin is lost between a Commodity and Currency, and since it belongs to neither category, it's very safe to assume it will die within a year when an alt like I proposed comes out.

1. ) It has no cap, but it is limited in supply.
2. ) It doesn't matter whether you call it commodity or currency. It still does the same thing no matter what you call it and no matter what properties do you apply to term "commodity" or term "currency". And just because you can't put them into category you would wanted to, we can't conclude the coin will die for that reason. Basically you are saying "the coin will die because I said so" and that was obvious at original post. So anyone saying that you are full of shit is pretty accurate.


Then why so many people care to reply to this post?


Because they are involved with xpm, duh?

[Lauda]

ignored

Ignore op, best solution 

[mustyoshi]

I don't understand why people think that a currency should have a cap on it's total supply, are economies a fixed size?

I think the desire for a supply cap stems from early investors wanting to ensure that their hordes are ever increasing in value, ie. completely greed driven.

The population of the planet is growing, and so is the size of the economy, so the currency needs to also grow with the economy.

[Lauda]

I don't understand why people think that a currency should have a cap on it's total supply, are economies a fixed size?

I think the desire for a supply cap stems from early investors wanting to ensure that their hordes are ever increasing in value, ie. completely greed driven.

The population of the planet is growing, and so is the size of the economy, so the currency needs to also grow with the economy.

Lets look at this: if btc is used by 1/10th of the population.. there isn't enough coins so that everyone would own just 1 of it, even if all of them were mined..
so XPM might actually be better off without a cap?

[mustyoshi]

I don't understand why people think that a currency should have a cap on it's total supply, are economies a fixed size?

I think the desire for a supply cap stems from early investors wanting to ensure that their hordes are ever increasing in value, ie. completely greed driven.

The population of the planet is growing, and so is the size of the economy, so the currency needs to also grow with the economy.

Lets look at this: if btc is used by 1/10th of the population.. there isn't enough coins so that everyone would own just 1 of it, even if all of them were mined..
so XPM might actually be better off without a cap?

Exactly, any coin without a set cap will do better in the long run than a capped coin.

[Stinky_Pete]

What GPU miner?

[Lauda]

I don't understand why people think that a currency should have a cap on it's total supply, are economies a fixed size?

I think the desire for a supply cap stems from early investors wanting to ensure that their hordes are ever increasing in value, ie. completely greed driven.

The population of the planet is growing, and so is the size of the economy, so the currency needs to also grow with the economy.

Lets look at this: if btc is used by 1/10th of the population.. there isn't enough coins so that everyone would own just 1 of it, even if all of them were mined..
so XPM might actually be better off without a cap?

Exactly, any coin without a set cap will do better in the long run than a capped coin.

There are more factors involved too, but if we're looking in the future 10-50 years and more, yes.

[FiiNALiZE]

[XPM] Investment Analysis: Why Primecoin is Useless, Doomed to Fail?

2) Primecoin is not a Currency

Prime is less secure than bitcoin, more prone to 51% attack (attack can happen with even less than 50% priming power) as stated in white paper.

Prime still takes minutes to confirm, not 3-4 seconds like Visa => no average Joe will ever use it, even if Sunny has plans to promote it, speaking of which...

There is no plan for any further development. This start to look like PPC - pump and dump scheme, just waiting for the next Primecoin alt to be released with a few parameters changed, like different difficulty algo, for example.

Besides that, Primecoin is pretty much a Bitcoin clone with different hashing algorithm.

I'm sorry but how does any of that relate to Primecoin not being a currency?

There's a reason why it's called cryptocurrency; Primecoin can be used as a medium of exchange and therefore can be defined as a currency.

I have no idea why you fluffed up that part of your argument with so much bullshit. Having a longer confirm time than a credit card does not mean that Primecoin cannot be considered as a currency.

[Stinky_Pete]

2) Primecoin is not a Currency

Prime is less secure than bitcoin, more prone to 51% attack (attack can happen with even less than 50% priming power) as stated in white paper.

Prime still takes minutes to confirm, not 3-4 seconds like Visa => no average Joe will ever use it, even if Sunny has plans to promote it, speaking of which...

There is no plan for any further development. This start to look like PPC - pump and dump scheme, just waiting for the next Primecoin alt to be released with a few parameters changed, like different difficulty algo, for example.

Besides that, Primecoin is pretty much a Bitcoin clone with different hashing algorithm.

So Bitcoin is not a currency either?

[erk]

2) Primecoin is not a Currency

Prime is less secure than bitcoin, more prone to 51% attack (attack can happen with even less than 50% priming power) as stated in white paper.

Prime still takes minutes to confirm, not 3-4 seconds like Visa => no average Joe will ever use it, even if Sunny has plans to promote it, speaking of which...

There is no plan for any further development. This start to look like PPC - pump and dump scheme, just waiting for the next Primecoin alt to be released with a few parameters changed, like different difficulty algo, for example.

Besides that, Primecoin is pretty much a Bitcoin clone with different hashing algorithm.

So Bitcoin is not a currency either?

Not a good currency I think is what he meant.

[eCoinomist]

Is Corn a commodity?  Does Corn have a cap?  If all farmers produce less Corn, does price increase?  If all farmers produce more corn does price decrease?

Yes, Corn has a limited cap to how many you can produce (currently that is resources on Earth to grow corn). Corn does not need to have a cap to be a commodity, because it has utility purpose to either feed humans/animals or used in industrial applications.

What use does Primecoin have besides speculation?

[eCoinomist]

With the advent of GPUs, Primecoin will become scarcer to get.  If they ever create a primecoin ASIC they will become even scarcer.  Why would people then STOP mining?  By your logic, if we stop, then the coin becomes less scarce and therefore less valuable.  Logic would also dictate only a fool would stop mining under these circumstances.

This is not how the dynamics works. Ultimately it's demand that dictates difficulty. Ppl only mine it even if they have asics when it's profitable, and this has been proven again and again with all the alts, like PPC, NMC, WDC, FTC, etc.

[Lauda]

With the advent of GPUs, Primecoin will become scarcer to get.  If they ever create a primecoin ASIC they will become even scarcer.  Why would people then STOP mining?  By your logic, if we stop, then the coin becomes less scarce and therefore less valuable.  Logic would also dictate only a fool would stop mining under these circumstances.

This is not how the dynamics works. Ultimately it's demand that dictates difficulty. Ppl only mine it even if they have asics when it's profitable, and this has been proven again and again with all the alts, like PPC, NMC, WDC, FTC, etc.

You certainly have a point there, agreed.