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According to Technews, Bitmain is about to release the Ethereum ASIC miner F3 in Q2 or Q3 2018.

“Bitmain is about to release F3, the ethereum ASIC miner. It’s reported that every miner is mounted with 3 mainboards. On each mainboard there are 6 ASIC processors, each of which has 32 1GB DDR3 memory. Therefore, one unit of F3 miner contains 72 Gigabyte DRAM memory.”

I have doubts on the math of the report because the numbers doesn’t add up.But 72G DRAM seems reasonable and already outperforms most of the GPU-based mining rigs in the market now.
The bottleneck of Bitmain’s mass production is supply of Dram memory, which explains why Bitmain is frequent visiting storage supplier in Taiwan. The demand of Bitmain is around 3,000 pieces of 12 inch wafers per month. Ethereum ASIC chips will enter mass production stage in February 2018 by TSMC’s 28nm process. The F3 miner is expected to hit the market in Q2 or Q3 2018.
The ethhash power algorithm of Ethereum is designed to be ASIC proof. But just like Charlie Lee put it:

“I think ASICs are inevitable when the coin is valuable. But that’s not a bad thing.”

20180212132759

Bitmain has developed ASIC miner for Litecoin and Siacoin.


http://news.8btc.com/bitmain-to-release-ethereum-asic-miner-f3-with-72gb-ddr3-dram-in-q2

R.I.P my rigs...... :'(

If news is confirm it is the end of GPU mining for AMD.

All people mining ETH will go to Cryptonight and diff gonna explose...

rip eth  :P (edit : miner)

I though that developing Ethereum ASIC would be unprofitable because of their plans to switch to PoS, but it seems like Bitmain has calculated otherwise. Maybe it will be usable to mine other coins with the same algorithm. But since it won't be able to mine all GPU algorithms, GPU mining will still be around for a long time, so if this ASIC will take over ETH mining, current ETH miners will just switch to other coins.

Planning a ETH Asic with POS plans?

The ETH PoW is designed to be ASIC resistant. So if there is an ASIC, it will change the algorithm.

here is a copy of the article

China Bit mainland will launch the new ether ether mining machine, TSMC and memory plant will benefit
Author Atkinson | Posted on February 12, 2018 15:59 | Category Fintech , GPU , Processors

leed_case1-3-624x416
Science and Technology Daily News] [Technews encryption because although recent currency Bitcoin price breakouts, become the subject of investor sell-off, but it made money for the encryption of new business opportunities, related investment so far still in the ascendant. A few days ago, foreign media reported that Terry Gou, president of Hon Hai Group, will invest in the world's first commercial bank of cryptocurrencies. Recently, a new type of cryptocurrency mining machine will be launched soon. This type of mining machine will appear larger memory, lower energy consumption in the market, which will also bring more business opportunities for foundry leading TSMC and related memory manufacturers.




Bitmain in China is among the market leaders in the mining machine market. Not only in the global mining machine market share as high as 80% to 90%, the monthly net profit also reached 30 million US dollars, but also by virtue of its huge demand for mining machine market, to design bitcoin, Litecoin ASIC and other mining ASIC chip, making the bit mainland China has leapt to China's top five IC design firms, but also contribute to the TSMC nearly 10% of total revenue.

Antminer-S9-e1515121136127

Bitmain S9 designed by Bit Continent is currently the main type of machine that is specially designed for the mining of Pittcoin. However, since the hash calculation adopted by bitcoin is mainly based on the SHA-256 algorithm, it not only consumes computing power but also consumes energy. In addition, as the number of bitcoins in the future becomes more and more scarce, The harder it is, the bitter continent begins to develop its own ether for the future.

It is understood that the ethernet ETHASH algorithm used, originally designed for the memory bandwidth (band width), which is the demand for graphics chips. So it is suitable for PC mining, mining machine is not good at this. However, because Ether is likely to adopt a PoS proof of stack model by mid-2019, which will make the current mining machine more difficult to enforce, the continent will start designing a new type of mining machine, To meet after the market demand.

According to "Science and Technology News," the exclusive grasp of the news, bit mainland China is about to launch mining for the Eupean F3 models, the design is to increase the DRAM bus bandwidth, but also to increase the size of the memory. In the future, each miner has three mainboards, each with six dedicated ASIC processors for mining, and each dedicated ASIC processor for mining features 32 1Gb DDR3 memory. In total, there will be 72 GigaByte of DRAM memory on a F3 miner, which is significantly different in memory size compared to the current S9 miner with bitcoin only 512 MB of DDR3 memory.

Market estimates, because the F3 of small energy consumption, great benefits, the future will be the formal introduction of the future, will impact the original graphics chip PC mining market. Also optimistic about such a market, the recent frequent bit mainland China to Taiwan to meet the memory plant, to discuss whether it can provide the relevant memory capacity. It is understood that the demand for this part of the bit continent is about the amount of 3 thousand 12-inch wafers per month. In this part, the current domestic memory factories are still trying to squeeze out the production capacity supply. As for the TSMC chipmaker that will be handed over to TSMC's foundry 28nm process, it will be mass-produced and shipped in February, while the bitcoin-based mining machine in the mainland of the continent is expected to ask Q2 and Q3 of 2018 .

I think the release of ethereum asic miners going into Q2 illustrates that a PoS Ethereum network is still extremely distant. Otherwise I don't see why Bitmain would invest money and time into these miners.

Yes ASIC *resistant* not ASIC *proof*. What do you mean change the algorithm?

The math does work out:

(3 boards) * (6 ASICs) * (32 RAMs) * (1 gigabit) = 576 gigabits = 72 gigabytes

DDR3 is pretty slow for ETH mining, look at the GDDR5X it's slower than GDDR5 and DDR3 is way slower for mining, but it would be probably cost effective with those DDR3, seems like DDR4 are too expensive that's plus.

true about gddr3 however 5x can work good ;)
1070 with custom bios and 4GB (512MB per chip) Micron GDDR5X giving over 40MH/s with same 256bit bus

Sooooo, how does one edit nvidia bios?

Even if this is true , Why you guys think it will kill GPU mining on ethereum ? . There is no information on how much hashrate those things will give and how much they will cost . I bet that the ratio between those ASIC and the current rigs we have will not be much . And even if that is not  the case , There is always another coin that will take ETH place as number 1 option for GPU mining .

Also making ASIC for sia and before it dash was already big fail . Look at the current profit . ( I know a lot might disagree with me on this ) But that what I think .

Are you referring to the P104s?

why so much ram ?

DMM Japan most likely have it already ...
and they are test running it in their farms.

F3 specs..
650MH/s  @  750Watts

 ;)

I reckon Ethereum's switch to POS is still years away, or to some critics, it might never happen. But if it does make the switch, there's always Ethereum Classic waiting, which has a capped supply and it is deflationary in nature.

Also with Asic miners around, ETH's price might crash because of its unlimited supply and the developers' unwillingness to start the Ice age, or did it already start? Sorry, I don't follow Ethereum anymore hehehe.

does that mean we can use these asic for gaming somehow? O.o

no

everyone beliving this clown but dint belive me back then???

rofl i told you. and no one listened.

what clown do you mean, Bitmain?

Didn't Vitalik say that ETH  POS  will be not soon?   “timeline is likely 3 to 5 years”

https://cointelegraph.com/news/vitalik-lays-out-ethereum-20-roadmap-in-taiwan/amp

What would be the hashrate of this machine?

You can't read?  ::)

So when is eth moving to cryptonight ?

You know IF this is true, it might be the end of Ethereum. The only thing keeping Ethereum going at the moment, is miners

that are mining Ethereum with GPU's. {These guys cannot mine BTC, so they settled for Ethereum.} The fact that there are

so many GPU miners, mining Ethereum, indirectly created a network of Ethereum users. Bye Bye Ethereum, Hallo

centralization.

That's a bad news . They found a way how to utilize all unsold DDR3 supply ! With this upcoming difficulty pump the profit will drop down dramatically , but also I expect that after it we will see a significant increasing of eth price in a few months .
Also , seems like Ethereum have a some kind of ASIC "resistance" . -  A quote from ethereum whitepaper https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/White-Paper
I'm not sure will it work or not , but there is still some hope

650MH/s  @  750Watts   :o :o :o

I wonder how much will it cost?

Really? You just quoted a random statement from a brand new account with 1(ONE) post in the forum?

I say 12 MH/s @ 6000 Watts and that's provided there are such "ASICs" and this is not just FUD to drop the price of GPUs.

You trolls should denote things properly, is not DDR3, it's GDDR3, my god, how uninformed are you trolls? GDDR3 is so different than DDR3. There are hundreds of topics about DDR3 and GDDR3, I advise you clueless trolls to start reading.

Here is one, https://superuser.com/questions/704168/what-is-the-difference-between-gddr3-and-ddr3

And by the way, its all about performance x cost, so stop crying and do something about your idiotic actions, stop buying rx 580 for $1000 then they will never build an asic for ethash.

Wonder what Ethereum developers will do if it turns out to be true? If you develop something specifically to be ASIC resistant, obviously IMHO you don’t want ASICS mining your coin. If someone makes an ASIC anyways, knowing you don’t want them mining your creation, then fork your coin and make their ASICs bricks. They will think twice about doing it again.

You must be a troll correct? Their asics can act like a video card concerning algorithms, even if eth devs change the algorithm, their asics can still mine the algorithm. I advise you trolls get to reality and stop paying $1000 for a rx 580, What got you trolls on this situation are yourselves.

I doubt they would have created an asic for ethash if rx 580 was selling for $180, like it used to be before the bullshit.

it says on bitmains post DDR3... not gddr3......

I strongly believe that Ethereum devs will find the way to brick those invalid ASIC monsters. By fork or something else. They declare it few times in the past. Also, it is easy to change the software miner (algo) on computer, but to change the algorithm on ASIC, not so easy.
Look the owners of D3 miner, X11 is still the only algo on it. Few groups try to implement X13, X15... but no results yet.

they are partnered with eth devs, they have insider casper knoledge.

Show us where did you read that  :)

Do you have any reference or proofs? unless you say it as "IMHO" or rather " I Guess", a purely hearsay with no basis.

PoS is pulling the trigger on a gun to your coin's head, but ETH dev's have used the threat of it to dissuade ASIC makers, now that Bitmain are calling their bluff they're going to have to come up with another solution. Whatever they do I think it's a brave man who buys an ETH ASIC.

I think we all need to calm down and wait for the asik!While too early to judge!The developers have promised that the Ethereum resistant to acicam,but if not,then just all pokinut this coin because of the lies and it will become not profitable for extraction!We will mine other coins!

He didn't read it anywhere, just trolling, move along.

If ethereum forks, that wouldn't affect the other Ethash coins.  Still several to chose from.

we all seen what happen when a coin forks cause of asics....

vtc is prime example of "no asic" coin that forked what 3 times now???

and look how far it has fallen... forking diff algo is no simple or easy task. there are concequences.

12MH/s @ 6000 watts  .... really?  old account with lots of post ... hmmm interesting...
a GTX1060 can do more than that at 70watts  LOL  :D

new account 1 post, old account lots of post ..    ???


Anyways..

https://news.bitcoin.com/japans-dmm-launches-large-scale-domestic-cryptocurrency-mining-farm-and-showroom/

DMM’s “ASIC machines purchased [were] made in China,” the TV station noted. “The ASIC machines are 650 MH/s (mega hash/sec), and the GPU machines are about 300 MH/s or less.”

The news outlet further noted that “the power consumption is 750W for ASIC and 1900 to 2000W for GPU,” adding that the GPU mining rigs have twelve GPU cards connected to two power supplies.

Well I don't know if ETH will fork if this is true they became one of the most centralized coins but as far as the smaller coin UBIQ, MUSIC, and especially PIRL all say they are ASIC resistant so I believe these coins with community support will fork that leaves ETH and ETC what will they do

Bitmain is preparing  the ground for...... Ethereum Cash ! of course ! 


13 GPU RX580 x 31 Mhs each reach  403 MHs .... cost more than  3500$  and @  1500/1600 W

If Bitmain reach to 650 Mhs,  with lower cost & Wattage.... could be an interested option....

LOL... Troll... No.... Opinionated... Yes.... I've worked in I.T. for quite a while, so please elaborate when you say the ASIC can act like a video card??? Never heard of an ASIC capable of doing ANY algorithm because they don't exist. A true ASIC is purpose built to do one specific thing in a very fast and efficient manner... If it can adapt to multiple algos it sounds more like an FPGA to me.

This is pretty interesting and I'd like to see how the Ethereum team responds if the rumour ends up being true. Really curious to see what kind of hashing power they will have...

I'm convinced that half the people posting in here are account farmers;  The amount of low quality posts is astounding.  Some Chinese website posted some speculation and now idiots are already talking about forks and the death of Ethereum. 


Anyone who thinks Bitmain is going to (publicly) release an Eth Miner needs a reality check.  Read the 3rd paragraph in the Mining Centralization section of the Ethereum whitepaper:  https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/White-Paper#mining-centralization  Specifically  the part about poisoning the well.

Are you really this stupid? Really? They are NOT talking about an ethhash miner of 650Mhash @ 750W. They are talking about EXSISTING ASICS. Litcoin asics probably.

Keep your calm please..

I saw above a question from one person:  What would be the hashrate of this machine?  and somebody replied:  You can't read?

I decided to read all posts but did not see an answer besides that brand new account , and thought that was that :)

Why do you think it is 12 MH/s @ 6000 Watts ?   This is really low, comparing with Panda B3 for example:  230 MH/s @ 1250 Watts.

I think he was just sarcastic with that post of 12 MH/S @ 6000 W :D

I'd guess the 12MH/s @ 6000 Watts comment is either taking the piss or doesn't know what they're talking about, leaning towards the former.

You are correct, a L3+ with modified bios has these hashrate and power consumption (504MH/s @ 800W if not modified)

Don't bother, he's a troll :D

i think this is all not more than just hot air i dont thin ki eth asics are true its not doable with the slow ddr3 rams even gddr3 ram ist to slow eth calculation is done by bandwith from rams and ddr3 or gddr3 are to slow i bet there will never be a miner that can do 600 mhs with just 750 watts of power the next 5 years

I'm not a pro regarding memory technology, but ethash algo seems to favor
fast random access to relatively small amounts of memory, and thats where
 system ram excels compared to GDDR
that is more suitable at transferring large chunks of memory

Using rx 560 chip should be enough to cover 10mh or so. Multiply by 18 i was thinking about 180mh with range 1500-3000 usd and power 18 x 75 watt = 1350 watt. Match up with its PSU Apw3++

IF they bought from amd for $25 per 560 chip, its only $450 for chips.

They can also goes to 580 chip to, 18 x 30 it means 540 mhs. All with 18 x 191 watt = 3438 watt (vga card). With good waver it might push to under 3000 watt so it can match with they old psu Awp5 up to 3200 watt.

580 chip only should around $50-75 so it up to $1350 and $3000 is a good price for this.

Does this explain why AMD cards/rigs are coming out on ebay?

The expensive part is memory

this whole thread is hillarious, 72 gb  ddr3 ?! rofl

Agree, a 8gb of VGEN DDR3 almost $80. So let say $10 including memory board, I guess they can have half the price for $5 per 1gb. 72gb should around $360, chip only.

Anyway I bought their products since 2014 and every single product always get me profit 2 times or more from their price (i dont buy v9 lol), so it should be something big  ;D

its not the price of DDR3 that we're laughing about... the article was a joke. You can't mine ETH with DDR3 lol

Can people really use ASICs to mine Ethereums?

Of course you can

So is ETH POS scheduled for right after all these Asics get dumped?

I wonder how long the burn in period was. Lol


Any computation can be made into a Asic.

its an asic...

So it leaked with name and everything? Months before launch? If I take the A3 as an example, I'd say bitmain knows how to keep things confidential to the last minute.

really?, 650 Mhz, 750w (mine ETH/ETC) .... wow

Thank you for the link.

It's already been discussed....contracts are not handled by miners.  That was a conceptual design idea to make it poisonable, but contracts are not handled by miners.  So, there is no way to "poison the well" with a contract.

it is fake... At least it wont be rls in 3 monts.

Some says Bitmain already figured that out since December 2016 other says in 1st quarter 2017 who knows!

anyway what i wanna say is that the difficulty chart will show if this is true or not

Whats a joke about that? Anyone commenting on the pure engineering/tech of using DDR3 for eth mining has no engineering background and no idea what your talking about if your laughing about it.

Give me 10 mill to develop an eth ASIC core with a 4 channel DDR3 mem controller and it will blow any GDDR5 based GPU out of the water in terms of perf/$ and perf/watt

Hello, do you know fpga programming? Can you pm me thank you

yup this is pure speculation until an announcement is made. Previously they have kept new ASICs under the radar until release (see the a3, v9, etc.).

While i see the value in them producing an ASIC to mine ETH, its more likely we will see a Decred ASIC followed by better SHA256 ASICs from bitmain this year.

All articles I've found state around 200-220MH/s for $2500-3000.  So even if they're correct (despite having zero sources), this doesn't sound like some 'GPU-killer'.   You could easily build a 200-220MH/s rig for that price if GPUs were at their original retail cost, and the rig you build will be able to do much more than Ethash and have more resell value.  So if the articles are correct, I welcome this new ASIC.  Maybe it will help ease the GPU crisis.

Thing is though, eth difficulty rise has been held back because of the low availability of GPU's. These things would provide an alternative source of hardware and the difficulty would climb way faster.

I think it will still probably be easier to get the parts to build a 220MH/s GPU rig than it would be to get a Bitmain ASIC.  As with all Bitmain products, the ASICs will probably be scooped up by resellers who sell at triple the price, whereas GPUs can still be gotten for maybe a 25% markup if you have nowinstock alerts.  Unless the cost vs hashrate ratio for the ASICs is a massive improvement over GPU rigs, I think Bitmain's usual low availability will be enough to stop the difficulty from spiking too much.

Only time will tell I suppose.

Just another 5 cents...
If say, todays 6 gpu rigs push out 250-350MHs, then with VEGA's this limit is higher and already climbs to 400MHs if not more, then comes March of 2018 and NVIDIA rolls out their 20xx GPU with capability of pushing 100MHs from one PGU, having 6 GPU rig pushing 600MHs is dam close to rumorish 650MHs, the only difference would be power this rig consumes vs the power this ASIC will consume...  IT WILL ALL COME TO _ROI_ at the end.

P.S. usage of DDR3 or GDD3 still leaves me wonder...

 If true this will be huge, for a while at least.  I pointed my rigs away from Eth a couple months back.  Hopefully there won't be enough of these to force GPU's into other coins.

That won't work.

25MH/s require 200GB/s. 100MH/s requires 800GB/s.

You need 4 HBM2 memory dies running at 800MHz to do this. The only cards capable of being in the ballpark are the Volta based Tesla GV100 and the Titan V costing $3000. HBM2 memory has been cited as the reason for the pricing being so high. You won't get mainstream cards getting that much anytime soon.

350MH/s from a 6 GPU rig requires close to 60MH/s. Vega 64 gets ~40MH/s. RX 470/480/570/580 cards get ~30MHz, if you crank them to the max. Again you need Titan V costing $3000, or GV100 at $10K+.

Huh?  6 vegas = $6000 rig and only 264 MH.

No consumer card is going to push out 100MH in the next 3 years.  The 1060 is how much faster than the previous gen?  If the 20xx does 50MH, I will be shocked.

nvidia is unveiling new tech called turing, along side volta and amper (ampel). turing is specially designed for mining. no graphics capability at all... not like gimped p106 or p104.
this will be the first true asic from a gpu manufactuer, and not some already gaming chip with bios mod and stripped down video connectors. mind you its still a gpu, but all of its power is focused on cuda/opencl

Anyone doubting this new eth asic just need to look at the past, noone thought bitmain would build an x11 asic miner and now a siacoin miner. If it makes them money why wouldnt they do it. If it happens it wont be cheap but, They will prob price it around the cost of a similar hashrate in gpus. The benefit of buying this asic will be in the efficiency. I wouldnt be building a rig now if this turns out to be true. If i had too it definitely wouldnt be an amd. The new smaller process on gpu s are just around the corner too which doesnt help. ROI is long  too compared to the recent past  , no thanks to current gpu prices.

hbm is dead lol, outclassed and outpriced by gddr6 now. samsung started production.

Making and selling ethhash algo ASIC make sense, ethereum is stable currency and the price will go up like all we know. Also with such an ASIC one can mine not only eth but a bunch of other cryptos which alone make huge sense of such ASIC. The good news for GPU miners is that Bitmain doesnt have huge manufacturing capabilities so it cant satisfy the demand if they start sell such ASIC machine and will take time to take over the GPUs.

Also, why ETH will have to battle ASIC?  - just for the sake of gpu mining? i dont think so, from at least one point of a view, if etherium network has contracts/dapps running on it, more total hash it gets the better it gets...extra hash power wont hurt it AFAIS

still no one answer why so much ram?

I am guessing it's because it will be mostly a parallel application of some sort.

Multiple asics so needs lots of ram

This.  If bitmain pulls this off you know they will flood the market and everyone will be buying because well they buy everything bitmain spits out.  Will be an interesting year to watch this and the new gpus come out.  Still mining away in the meantime

I think he means they would fork ysing a new algo for pow.  That is not what asic resistant is though.  I have no knowledge of what the eth team would and wouldnt do but dont know if theyd fork into another algo

My $0.05

Surely this will just push the ETH devs to actually get around to rolling out POS?

Then the hash-rate currently pointed at the ETH network will migrate to all the other many dagger/hashimoto coins - like eth classic, Pirl, Ubiq, expanse, etc, etc.

Which means the prices of all those other coins will drop due to miners who just dump/trade to BTC every day and the ETH price will start on a steady climb....

if they get the whole POS thing right of course.

I'll be interested to see if they can actually deliver.

i did some quick maths

ethash for example

1th ethash= 1000000mh = 33333 gpus 470/480/570/580 = 30mhs/gpu
33333gpus *0,9khs cryptonight = 30000khs = 30mhs cryptonight
214th(current eth nethash) * 30mhs(cryptonight) = 6420mhs cryptonight

that could be the impact if they all switch to cryptonight, monero has now ~750mhs and other cryptonight coin 0-50mhs

but there are alot of other coins/algos/new coins in future...so if the hashrate split a little bit here and there...some coins grows in value...it should be not bad at all

They wont push anything just because of asics it needs to be done right, and just because something uses pos doesnt mean it just makes the price climb.  There is not one or 2 reasons pruce goes up or down there is an entire market force behind that as well. 

POS  = piece of shit

simply wont work  basically  it is  interest on a bond or in a bank account.

So If I get 3% on a USA bond now

https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/interest-rates/Pages/TextView.aspx?data=yieldYear&year=2013



Date   1 Mo   3 Mo   6 Mo   1 Yr   2 Yr   3 Yr   5 Yr   7 Yr   10 Yr   20 Yr   30 Yr
01/02/13   0.07   0.08   0.12   0.15   0.27   0.37   0.76   1.25   1.86   2.63   3.04
01/03/13   0.06   0.08   0.12   0.15   0.27   0.40   0.81   1.31   1.92   2.70   3.12
01/04/13   0.06   0.07   0.11   0.15   0.27   0.41   0.82   1.32   1.93   2.70   3.10
01/07/13   0.05   0.07   0.11   0.15   0.27   0.41   0.82   1.31   1.92   2.70   3.10
01/08/13   0.06   0.07   0.11   0.14   0.25   0.38   0.79   1.28   1.89   2.66   3.06
01/09/13   0.04   0.06   0.09   0.13   0.24   0.37   0.77   1.27   1.88   2.65   3.06
01/10/13   0.05   0.06   0.10   0.14   0.26   0.37   0.80   1.30   1.91   2.68   3.08
01/11/13   0.04   0.07   0.10   0.14   0.26   0.37   0.78   1.28   1.89   2.65   3.05
01/14/13   0.05   0.08   0.11   0.14   0.26   0.37   0.78   1.27   1.89   2.65   3.05
01/15/13   0.09   0.09   0.11   0.14   0.26   0.36   0.75   1.24   1.86   2.62   3.02
01/16/13   0.07   0.08   0.11   0.14   0.26   0.36   0.75   1.23   1.84   2.61   3.01
01/17/13   0.05   0.07   0.11   0.14   0.28   0.39   0.79   1.29   1.89   2.66   3.06
01/18/13   0.04   0.08   0.10   0.14   0.26   0.38   0.77   1.26   1.87   2.63   3.03
01/22/13   0.04   0.08   0.10   0.14   0.26   0.38   0.76   1.25   1.86   2.62   3.02
01/23/13   0.06   0.08   0.10   0.15   0.26   0.37   0.76   1.24   1.86   2.62   3.02
01/24/13   0.06   0.08   0.10   0.15   0.23   0.37   0.78   1.26   1.88   2.64   3.04
01/25/13   0.06   0.08   0.11   0.15   0.28   0.42   0.87   1.36   1.98   2.75   3.14
01/28/13   0.03   0.07   0.11   0.16   0.29   0.45   0.89   1.38   2.00   2.76   3.15
01/29/13   0.03   0.07   0.11   0.15   0.30   0.43   0.90   1.40   2.03   2.79   3.18
01/30/13   0.04   0.07   0.11   0.15   0.27   0.42   0.88   1.39   2.03   2.80   3.19
01/31/13   0.04   0.07   0.12   0.15   0.27   0.42   0.88   1.38   2.02   2.79   3.17
02/01/13   0.02   0.06   0.11   0.15   0.27   0.40   0.88   1.40   2.04   2.83   3.21
02/04/13   0.03   0.07   0.11   0.15   0.25   0.38   0.85   1.36   2.00   2.79   3.17
02/05/13   0.06   0.07   0.11   0.15   0.27   0.41   0.88   1.39   2.04   2.83   3.21
02/06/13   0.06   0.07   0.12   0.15   0.27   0.39   0.84   1.35   2.00   2.79   3.18
02/07/13   0.03   0.07   0.11   0.15   0.25   0.39   0.83   1.34   1.99   2.78   3.17
02/08/13   0.03   0.07   0.11   0.14   0.25   0.39   0.84   1.34   1.99   2.79   3.17
02/11/13   0.05   0.09   0.12   0.15   0.27   0.40   0.85   1.35   1.99   2.78   3.16
02/12/13   0.08   0.09   0.12   0.14   0.29   0.41   0.88   1.38   2.02   2.81   3.19
02/13/13   0.09   0.10   0.12   0.15   0.29   0.44   0.92   1.43   2.05   2.86   3.23
02/14/13   0.10   0.11   0.13   0.16   0.27   0.42   0.86   1.37   2.00   2.79   3.17
02/15/13   0.09   0.10   0.13   0.17   0.29   0.42   0.87   1.38   2.01   2.80   3.18
02/19/13   0.09   0.12   0.13   0.17   0.29   0.44   0.89   1.41   2.03   2.83   3.21
02/20/13   0.12   0.12   0.13   0.17   0.27   0.42   0.88   1.38   2.02   2.82   3.20
02/21/13   0.12   0.13   0.13   0.16   0.26   0.40   0.86   1.36   1.99   2.79   3.17
02/22/13   0.11   0.13   0.14   0.16   0.27   0.40   0.84   1.34   1.97   2.77   3.15
02/25/13   0.09   0.12   0.14   0.16   0.25   0.37   0.78   1.25   1.88   2.69   3.08
02/26/13   0.11   0.14   0.14   0.17   0.25   0.37   0.78   1.25   1.88   2.69   3.08
02/27/13   0.11   0.11   0.13   0.17   0.27   0.36   0.78   1.28   1.91   2.72   3.11
02/28/13   0.07   0.11   0.13   0.17   0.25   0.36   0.77   1.26   1.89   2.71   3.10
03/01/13   0.07   0.11   0.12   0.16   0.25   0.35   0.75   1.23   1.86   2.68   3.06
03/04/13   0.07   0.11   0.12   0.16   0.24   0.35   0.76   1.25   1.88   2.70   3.08
03/05/13   0.09   0.08   0.12   0.15   0.25   0.36   0.77   1.27   1.90   2.72   3.10
03/06/13   0.09   0.10   0.12   0.15   0.25   0.38   0.81   1.31   1.95   2.77   3.15
03/07/13   0.10   0.10   0.11   0.15   0.25   0.40   0.85   1.36   2.00   2.82   3.20
03/08/13   0.09   0.10   0.11   0.15   0.27   0.42   0.90   1.43   2.06   2.89   3.25
03/11/13   0.09   0.10   0.12   0.15   0.27   0.43   0.90   1.43   2.07   2.89   3.26
03/12/13   0.10   0.10   0.12   0.15   0.27   0.41   0.88   1.40   2.03   2.85   3.22
03/13/13   0.09   0.09   0.12   0.15   0.27   0.42   0.89   1.41   2.04   2.85   3.22
03/14/13   0.08   0.10   0.12   0.15   0.27   0.42   0.88   1.40   2.04   2.87   3.25
03/15/13   0.07   0.09   0.11   0.14   0.25   0.40   0.84   1.35   2.01   2.85   3.22
03/18/13   0.07   0.07   0.11   0.15   0.26   0.38   0.81   1.31   1.96   2.79   3.18
03/19/13   0.08   0.07   0.11   0.15   0.24   0.37   0.79   1.28   1.92   2.75   3.13
03/20/13   0.08   0.07   0.11   0.15   0.26   0.38   0.81   1.32   1.96   2.80   3.19
03/21/13   0.08   0.07   0.11   0.14   0.27   0.38   0.81   1.30   1.95   2.77   3.15
03/22/13   0.07   0.07   0.11   0.14   0.26   0.39   0.80   1.29   1.93   2.75   3.13
03/25/13   0.06   0.08   0.11   0.14   0.24   0.38   0.80   1.28   1.93   2.76   3.14
03/26/13   0.08   0.07   0.11   0.14   0.25   0.38   0.79   1.27   1.92   2.75   3.13
03/27/13   0.06   0.09   0.12   0.14   0.25   0.36   0.76   1.22   1.87   2.71   3.09
03/28/13   0.04   0.07   0.11   0.14   0.25   0.36   0.77   1.24   1.87   2.71   3.10
04/01/13   0.06   0.08   0.11   0.14   0.23   0.36   0.76   1.23   1.86   2.70   3.08
04/02/13   0.06   0.07   0.11   0.14   0.25   0.36   0.78   1.26   1.88   2.72   3.10
04/03/13   0.06   0.06   0.10   0.13   0.24   0.34   0.73   1.20   1.83   2.66   3.05
04/04/13   0.07   0.07   0.10   0.13   0.22   0.33   0.69   1.15   1.78   2.60   2.99
04/05/13   0.05   0.07   0.10   0.13   0.24   0.33   0.68   1.12   1.72   2.50   2.87
04/08/13   0.05   0.07   0.10   0.13   0.24   0.34   0.71   1.15   1.76   2.54   2.91
04/09/13   0.06   0.06   0.10   0.13   0.24   0.34   0.70   1.16   1.78   2.57   2.94
04/10/13   0.07   0.07   0.10   0.12   0.24   0.36   0.74   1.21   1.84   2.63   3.01
04/11/13   0.06   0.07   0.10   0.12   0.24   0.35   0.74   1.20   1.82   2.62   3.01
04/12/13   0.05   0.06   0.09   0.11   0.22   0.33   0.70   1.14   1.75   2.54   2.92
04/15/13   0.04   0.06   0.09   0.12   0.22   0.32   0.69   1.12   1.72   2.50   2.88
04/16/13   0.06   0.06   0.09   0.13   0.24   0.33   0.71   1.15   1.75   2.53   2.91
04/17/13   0.05   0.06   0.09   0.13   0.24   0.35   0.71   1.13   1.73   2.51   2.89
04/18/13   0.03   0.05   0.09   0.12   0.24   0.35   0.71   1.13   1.72   2.49   2.87
04/19/13   0.04   0.05   0.09   0.12   0.24   0.35   0.72   1.14   1.73   2.50   2.88
04/22/13   0.04   0.05   0.09   0.12   0.24   0.35   0.70   1.13   1.72   2.50   2.88
04/23/13   0.04   0.05   0.09   0.12   0.23   0.35   0.71   1.14   1.74   2.52   2.90
04/24/13   0.05   0.06   0.09   0.13   0.23   0.34   0.70   1.13   1.73   2.50   2.89
04/25/13   0.04   0.05   0.08   0.12   0.23   0.35   0.71   1.15   1.74   2.52   2.91
04/26/13   0.04   0.05   0.09   0.12   0.22   0.32   0.68   1.10   1.70   2.47   2.87
04/29/13   0.03   0.05   0.08   0.12   0.20   0.32   0.68   1.10   1.70   2.49   2.88
04/30/13   0.03   0.05   0.09   0.11   0.22   0.32   0.68   1.11   1.70   2.49   2.88
05/01/13   0.03   0.06   0.08   0.11   0.20   0.30   0.65   1.07   1.66   2.44   2.83
05/02/13   0.02   0.05   0.08   0.11   0.20   0.30   0.65   1.07   1.66   2.44   2.82
05/03/13   0.02   0.05   0.08   0.11   0.22   0.34   0.73   1.17   1.78   2.58   2.96
05/06/13   0.01   0.04   0.08   0.11   0.22   0.34   0.74   1.19   1.80   2.60   2.98
05/07/13   0.01   0.04   0.08   0.10   0.22   0.35   0.75   1.21   1.82   2.62   3.00
05/08/13   0.01   0.04   0.08   0.11   0.22   0.35   0.75   1.20   1.81   2.61   2.99
05/09/13   0.02   0.04   0.08   0.11   0.22   0.35   0.75   1.20   1.81   2.60   3.01
05/10/13   0.02   0.04   0.08   0.11   0.26   0.38   0.82   1.28   1.90   2.70   3.10
05/13/13   0.02   0.05   0.08   0.13   0.24   0.40   0.83   1.30   1.92   2.73   3.13
05/14/13   0.01   0.05   0.09   0.12   0.26   0.41   0.85   1.33   1.96   2.77   3.17
05/15/13   0.01   0.04   0.09   0.12   0.26   0.40   0.84   1.32   1.94   2.76   3.16
05/16/13   0.00   0.03   0.08   0.12   0.23   0.37   0.79   1.25   1.87   2.69   3.09
05/17/13   0.01   0.04   0.08   0.12   0.26   0.40   0.84   1.32   1.95   2.77   3.17
05/20/13   0.01   0.05   0.09   0.12   0.26   0.40   0.85   1.33   1.97   2.79   3.18
05/21/13   0.04   0.04   0.09   0.12   0.26   0.39   0.84   1.31   1.94   2.75   3.14
05/22/13   0.04   0.04   0.08   0.11   0.26   0.41   0.91   1.40   2.03   2.83   3.21
05/23/13   0.03   0.05   0.08   0.12   0.26   0.42   0.91   1.40   2.02   2.82   3.20
05/24/13   0.03   0.04   0.07   0.12   0.26   0.41   0.90   1.39   2.01   2.80   3.18
05/28/13   0.02   0.05   0.09   0.13   0.29   0.49   1.02   1.53   2.15   2.95   3.31
05/29/13   0.04   0.05   0.08   0.14   0.30   0.49   1.02   1.51   2.13   2.91   3.27
05/30/13   0.02   0.04   0.07   0.13   0.31   0.49   1.01   1.51   2.13   2.92   3.28
05/31/13   0.03   0.04   0.07   0.14   0.30   0.52   1.05   1.55   2.16   2.95   3.30
06/03/13   0.03   0.05   0.08   0.14   0.30   0.50   1.03   1.53   2.13   2.92   3.27
06/04/13   0.05   0.04   0.08   0.14   0.32   0.48   1.05   1.55   2.14   2.95   3.30
06/05/13   0.04   0.05   0.08   0.14   0.30   0.48   1.02   1.52   2.10   2.90   3.25
06/06/13   0.04   0.05   0.08   0.14   0.30   0.48   1.01   1.49   2.08   2.89   3.23
06/07/13   0.04   0.04   0.07   0.14   0.32   0.52   1.10   1.59   2.17   2.98   3.33
06/10/13   0.04   0.05   0.08   0.14   0.32   0.55   1.13   1.62   2.22   3.03   3.36
06/11/13   0.05   0.05   0.08   0.14   0.34   0.57   1.12   1.61   2.20   3.00   3.33
06/12/13   0.04   0.05   0.08   0.14   0.34   0.57   1.15   1.64   2.25   3.04   3.37
06/13/13   0.04   0.05   0.08   0.14   0.32   0.55   1.11   1.60   2.19   2.99   3.33
06/14/13   0.04   0.05   0.08   0.13   0.29   0.49   1.04   1.53   2.14   2.95   3.28
06/17/13   0.05   0.05   0.08   0.13   0.27   0.49   1.06   1.57   2.19   3.01   3.35
06/18/13   0.04   0.05   0.08   0.13   0.27   0.48   1.07   1.58   2.20   3.00   3.34
06/19/13   0.04   0.05   0.08   0.13   0.31   0.58   1.24   1.76   2.33   3.09   3.41
06/20/13   0.03   0.05   0.09   0.14   0.33   0.62   1.31   1.84   2.41   3.18   3.49
06/21/13   0.02   0.05   0.09   0.13   0.38   0.70   1.42   1.95   2.52   3.26   3.56
06/24/13   0.01   0.06   0.11   0.16   0.42   0.73   1.48   2.02   2.57   3.27   3.56
06/25/13   0.03   0.06   0.11   0.17   0.43   0.74   1.49   2.03   2.60   3.31   3.60
06/26/13   0.02   0.06   0.11   0.16   0.39   0.69   1.45   1.98   2.55   3.27   3.58
06/27/13   0.02   0.06   0.11   0.15   0.36   0.66   1.38   1.91   2.49   3.22   3.54
06/28/13   0.02   0.04   0.10   0.15   0.36   0.66   1.41   1.96   2.52   3.22   3.52
07/01/13   0.01   0.04   0.09   0.15   0.34   0.65   1.39   1.93   2.50   3.19   3.48
07/02/13   0.02   0.03   0.08   0.14   0.34   0.64   1.38   1.92   2.48   3.18   3.47
07/03/13   0.03   0.05   0.08   0.14   0.36   0.67   1.42   1.97   2.52   3.22   3.49
07/05/13   0.03   0.04   0.08   0.15   0.40   0.77   1.60   2.19   2.73   3.41   3.68
07/08/13   0.02   0.05   0.07   0.14   0.37   0.71   1.51   2.11   2.65   3.35   3.63
07/09/13   0.04   0.04   0.08   0.14   0.37   0.71   1.50   2.08   2.65   3.36   3.64
07/10/13   0.03   0.04   0.08   0.13   0.38   0.73   1.54   2.12   2.70   3.40   3.68
07/11/13   0.02   0.04   0.07   0.13   0.34   0.65   1.40   1.99   2.60   3.33   3.64
07/12/13   0.02   0.04   0.07   0.12   0.37   0.66   1.43   2.00   2.61   3.34   3.64
07/15/13   0.02   0.04   0.07   0.11   0.34   0.66   1.40   1.97   2.57   3.30   3.61
07/16/13   0.02   0.03   0.07   0.10   0.34   0.64   1.38   1.95   2.55   3.28   3.58
07/17/13   0.02   0.03   0.08   0.11   0.32   0.60   1.33   1.91   2.52   3.27   3.57
07/18/13   0.01   0.03   0.07   0.11   0.32   0.61   1.35   1.95   2.56   3.32   3.63
07/19/13   0.01   0.03   0.07   0.11   0.32   0.59   1.31   1.90   2.50   3.25   3.56
07/22/13   0.01   0.04   0.07   0.10   0.32   0.59   1.32   1.90   2.50   3.25   3.55
07/23/13   0.02   0.02   0.07   0.12   0.33   0.60   1.33   1.92   2.53   3.27   3.58
07/24/13   0.02   0.03   0.07   0.12   0.34   0.64   1.40   2.00   2.61   3.34   3.65
07/25/13   0.02   0.02   0.06   0.12   0.32   0.62   1.38   2.00   2.61   3.34   3.65
07/26/13   0.02   0.03   0.07   0.11   0.31   0.59   1.36   1.98   2.58   3.31   3.61
07/29/13   0.01   0.03   0.07   0.11   0.33   0.61   1.37   2.00   2.61   3.35   3.66
07/30/13   0.03   0.04   0.07   0.11   0.33   0.62   1.39   2.02   2.63   3.36   3.67
07/31/13   0.03   0.04   0.08   0.11   0.31   0.61   1.38   2.00   2.60   3.34   3.64
08/01/13   0.02   0.04   0.08   0.13   0.35   0.65   1.49   2.15   2.74   3.48   3.77
08/02/13   0.02   0.04   0.07   0.11   0.30   0.59   1.36   2.01   2.63   3.39   3.69
08/05/13   0.03   0.05   0.08   0.12   0.32   0.61   1.39   2.04   2.67   3.42   3.73
08/06/13   0.05   0.04   0.08   0.12   0.32   0.62   1.39   2.04   2.67   3.42   3.73
08/07/13   0.05   0.05   0.08   0.12   0.32   0.61   1.38   2.00   2.61   3.37   3.68
08/08/13   0.05   0.05   0.07   0.12   0.30   0.61   1.36   1.98   2.58   3.37   3.65
08/09/13   0.05   0.05   0.07   0.11   0.32   0.61   1.36   1.98   2.57   3.36   3.63
08/12/13   0.05   0.06   0.08   0.12   0.32   0.62   1.39   2.01   2.61   3.39   3.67
08/13/13   0.06   0.06   0.08   0.12   0.34   0.68   1.49   2.13   2.71   3.48   3.75
08/14/13   0.06   0.05   0.07   0.12   0.34   0.67   1.48   2.12   2.71   3.48   3.75
08/15/13   0.05   0.05   0.08   0.13   0.36   0.70   1.54   2.18   2.77   3.54   3.81
08/16/13   0.05   0.05   0.08   0.13   0.36   0.73   1.60   2.25   2.84   3.61   3.86
08/19/13   0.03   0.06   0.08   0.13   0.36   0.76   1.63   2.29   2.88   3.64   3.89
08/20/13   0.03   0.04   0.07   0.13   0.36   0.73   1.57   2.22   2.82   3.59   3.86
08/21/13   0.02   0.04   0.07   0.14   0.38   0.76   1.64   2.30   2.87   3.64   3.90
08/22/13   0.01   0.03   0.06   0.14   0.42   0.82   1.71   2.34   2.90   3.63   3.88
08/23/13   0.02   0.03   0.06   0.14   0.40   0.80   1.66   2.27   2.82   3.55   3.80
08/26/13   0.03   0.04   0.07   0.13   0.41   0.79   1.61   2.23   2.79   3.52   3.77
08/27/13   0.04   0.05   0.07   0.12   0.38   0.77   1.56   2.15   2.72   3.45   3.70
08/28/13   0.04   0.03   0.07   0.14   0.40   0.79   1.62   2.22   2.78   3.50   3.75
08/29/13   0.03   0.02   0.06   0.14   0.39   0.79   1.60   2.20   2.75   3.45   3.70
08/30/13   0.02   0.03   0.05   0.13   0.39   0.79   1.62   2.24   2.78   3.46   3.70
09/03/13   0.03   0.02   0.05   0.14   0.43   0.83   1.68   2.31   2.86   3.54   3.79
09/04/13   0.02   0.02   0.05   0.14   0.46   0.89   1.74   2.36   2.90   3.56   3.80
09/05/13   0.03   0.02   0.06   0.16   0.52   0.97   1.85   2.45   2.98   3.64   3.88
09/06/13   0.02   0.02   0.05   0.14   0.46   0.91   1.77   2.38   2.94   3.62   3.87
09/09/13   0.02   0.02   0.04   0.12   0.45   0.87   1.71   2.34   2.90   3.60   3.84
09/10/13   0.01   0.02   0.04   0.13   0.50   0.92   1.78   2.40   2.96   3.65   3.88
09/11/13   0.01   0.02   0.05   0.12   0.47   0.88   1.72   2.34   2.93   3.61   3.85
09/12/13   0.01   0.01   0.02   0.13   0.45   0.87   1.72   2.34   2.92   3.60   3.85
09/13/13   0.01   0.01   0.02   0.13   0.45   0.87   1.71   2.32   2.90   3.59   3.84
09/16/13   0.01   0.02   0.04   0.13   0.41   0.80   1.65   2.27   2.88   3.61   3.87
09/17/13   0.01   0.01   0.04   0.12   0.39   0.78   1.62   2.26   2.86   3.57   3.84
09/18/13   0.01   0.01   0.04   0.11   0.34   0.67   1.43   2.05   2.69   3.46   3.75
09/19/13   0.00   0.01   0.03   0.10   0.34   0.69   1.49   2.13   2.76   3.52   3.80
09/20/13   0.01   0.01   0.05   0.11   0.34   0.69   1.50   2.13   2.75   3.50   3.77
09/23/13   0.01   0.02   0.05   0.10   0.35   0.68   1.48   2.10   2.72   3.46   3.73
09/24/13   0.02   0.02   0.05   0.10   0.35   0.67   1.44   2.05   2.67   3.40   3.67
09/25/13   0.02   0.02   0.05   0.10   0.36   0.66   1.41   2.01   2.63   3.37   3.65
09/26/13   0.04   0.00   0.03   0.09   0.34   0.67   1.43   2.05   2.66   3.41   3.69
09/27/13   0.03   0.02   0.03   0.10   0.34   0.64   1.40   2.02   2.64   3.40   3.68
09/30/13   0.03   0.02   0.04   0.10   0.33   0.63   1.39   2.02   2.64   3.41   3.69
10/01/13   0.10   0.02   0.04   0.10   0.33   0.66   1.42   2.04   2.66   3.43   3.72
10/02/13   0.08   0.02   0.05   0.11   0.31   0.62   1.38   2.01   2.63   3.41   3.70
10/03/13   0.12   0.03   0.05   0.11   0.33   0.61   1.36   1.99   2.62   3.40   3.71
10/04/13   0.11   0.03   0.04   0.11   0.33   0.66   1.41   2.05   2.66   3.43   3.73
10/07/13   0.13   0.03   0.06   0.12   0.37   0.66   1.41   2.03   2.65   3.41   3.70
10/08/13   0.27   0.05   0.09   0.15   0.40   0.70   1.43   2.05   2.66   3.41   3.70
10/09/13   0.26   0.05   0.08   0.15   0.37   0.68   1.43   2.06   2.68   3.43   3.73
10/10/13   0.25   0.05   0.07   0.14   0.35   0.68   1.44   2.09   2.71   3.46   3.75
10/11/13   0.25   0.08   0.07   0.14   0.35   0.66   1.42   2.07   2.70   3.45   3.74
10/15/13   0.32   0.14   0.16   0.16   0.37   0.68   1.45   2.11   2.75   3.50   3.78
10/16/13   0.14   0.10   0.11   0.15   0.34   0.64   1.41   2.06   2.69   3.43   3.72
10/17/13   0.01   0.05   0.08   0.13   0.33   0.61   1.35   1.98   2.61   3.36   3.66
10/18/13   0.01   0.04   0.08   0.12   0.33   0.62   1.35   1.98   2.60   3.36   3.65
10/21/13   0.02   0.04   0.07   0.11   0.33   0.63   1.38   2.01   2.63   3.39   3.68
10/22/13   0.04   0.04   0.07   0.10   0.31   0.59   1.30   1.92   2.54   3.31   3.61
10/23/13   0.02   0.04   0.07   0.11   0.31   0.60   1.30   1.90   2.51   3.29   3.59
10/24/13   0.02   0.03   0.07   0.12   0.33   0.59   1.32   1.92   2.53   3.30   3.61
10/25/13   0.02   0.04   0.08   0.11   0.32   0.59   1.30   1.90   2.53   3.30   3.60
10/28/13   0.02   0.04   0.08   0.11   0.32   0.59   1.31   1.91   2.54   3.31   3.61
10/29/13   0.06   0.04   0.08   0.11   0.31   0.59   1.29   1.90   2.53   3.31   3.62
10/30/13   0.05   0.04   0.09   0.11   0.33   0.58   1.30   1.93   2.55   3.33   3.63
10/31/13   0.03   0.04   0.08   0.10   0.31   0.57   1.31   1.95   2.57   3.33   3.63
11/01/13   0.03   0.04   0.08   0.10   0.33   0.61   1.37   2.03   2.65   3.40   3.69
11/04/13   0.02   0.05   0.09   0.09   0.32   0.60   1.36   2.01   2.63   3.40   3.70
11/05/13   0.06   0.05   0.08   0.10   0.32   0.60   1.39   2.06   2.69   3.46   3.76
11/06/13   0.05   0.05   0.09   0.11   0.30   0.58   1.34   2.02   2.67   3.46   3.77
11/07/13   0.04   0.05   0.09   0.11   0.29   0.55   1.31   1.98   2.63   3.41   3.71
11/08/13   0.04   0.06   0.09   0.12   0.32   0.62   1.42   2.12   2.77   3.55   3.84
11/12/13   0.05   0.08   0.10   0.13   0.34   0.65   1.47   2.16   2.80   3.57   3.86
11/13/13   0.06   0.08   0.10   0.13   0.32   0.61   1.41   2.10   2.75   3.54   3.83
11/14/13   0.06   0.08   0.10   0.13   0.29   0.56   1.34   2.04   2.69   3.49   3.79
11/15/13   0.06   0.08   0.10   0.13   0.31   0.58   1.36   2.06   2.71   3.50   3.80
11/18/13   0.05   0.09   0.10   0.13   0.31   0.56   1.33   2.02   2.67   3.46   3.76
11/19/13   0.05   0.08   0.10   0.14   0.29   0.58   1.37   2.06   2.71   3.50   3.80
11/20/13   0.06   0.08   0.11   0.12   0.28   0.57   1.39   2.13   2.80   3.61   3.90
11/21/13   0.02   0.07   0.10   0.12   0.29   0.55   1.38   2.12   2.79   3.59   3.89
11/22/13   0.02   0.07   0.10   0.12   0.31   0.57   1.37   2.10   2.75   3.54   3.84
11/25/13   0.04   0.08   0.11   0.14   0.30   0.57   1.37   2.08   2.74   3.53   3.83
11/26/13   0.07   0.07   0.11   0.13   0.29   0.55   1.34   2.05   2.71   3.50   3.80
11/27/13   0.06   0.07   0.11   0.13   0.28   0.55   1.36   2.08   2.74   3.52   3.81
11/29/13   0.05   0.06   0.11   0.13   0.28   0.56   1.37   2.10   2.75   3.54   3.82
12/02/13   0.02   0.05   0.10   0.13   0.30   0.59   1.43   2.16   2.81   3.58   3.86
12/03/13   0.04   0.06   0.10   0.13   0.28   0.58   1.40   2.13   2.79   3.56   3.84
12/04/13   0.04   0.06   0.10   0.14   0.30   0.60   1.45   2.19   2.84   3.63   3.90
12/05/13   0.02   0.06   0.10   0.13   0.30   0.61   1.49   2.23   2.88   3.65   3.92
12/06/13   0.03   0.06   0.10   0.13   0.30   0.64   1.51   2.23   2.88   3.63   3.90
12/09/13   0.04   0.07   0.10   0.13   0.30   0.64   1.50   2.23   2.86   3.61   3.88
12/10/13   0.03   0.07   0.10   0.14   0.30   0.62   1.46   2.17   2.81   3.56   3.83
12/11/13   0.02   0.07   0.10   0.13   0.31   0.63   1.50   2.21   2.86   3.61   3.87
12/12/13   0.01   0.07   0.09   0.14   0.34   0.67   1.55   2.26   2.89   3.63   3.91
12/13/13   0.02   0.07   0.09   0.14   0.34   0.68   1.55   2.25   2.88   3.61   3.88
12/16/13   0.02   0.07   0.09   0.13   0.34   0.68   1.55   2.26   2.89   3.63   3.90
12/17/13   0.02   0.07   0.09   0.14   0.34   0.65   1.52   2.22   2.85   3.60   3.88
12/18/13   0.01   0.07   0.10   0.13   0.32   0.64   1.55   2.26   2.89   3.63   3.90
12/19/13   0.01   0.06   0.09   0.13   0.35   0.70   1.63   2.35   2.94   3.64   3.91
12/20/13   0.02   0.07   0.09   0.13   0.37   0.74   1.66   2.33   2.89   3.57   3.82
12/23/13   0.01   0.07   0.09   0.14   0.38   0.77   1.68   2.37   2.94   3.60   3.85
12/24/13   0.01   0.07   0.09   0.14   0.38   0.80   1.73   2.43   2.99   3.66   3.90
12/26/13   0.00   0.07   0.09   0.13   0.42   0.81   1.74   2.43   3.00   3.68   3.92
12/27/13   0.01   0.07   0.09   0.12   0.40   0.79   1.74   2.44   3.02   3.70   3.94
12/30/13   0.01   0.07   0.10   0.13   0.39   0.77   1.71   2.40   2.99   3.66   3.90
12/31/13   0.01   0.07   0.10   0.13   0.38   0.78   1.75   2.45   3.04   3.72   3.96



what  would a 100% pos need to pay  well since it is backed by nothing  I would not want one unless it paid 10X  the fed 30 year rate

but Phil  the government bond has  no backing no gold no silver.

Yeah  it has backing  of the US military  lots of guns missiles tanks soldiers etc.

Most  Fiat  is backed now by the countries weapons.  Since they went off gold and silver standards.

It is fucked up but true.  Most people  don't want to get killed  by their governments  so they agree to accept the money standards.

So Eth at pos = disaster.
My worry  is not ETH  and bitmain  making something more efficient to mine it.

My worry is they use this with every coin there is.  That = disaster.

Here is why  in the mining game  if you have  every factor controlled  other then coin diff and  coin price  you will make money.  Maybe not as much as you want  but money none the less.

I can control every  factor of mining using gpus
I can not control every factor of mining using asics.

Ie an evga  1080ti  with a 3 year warranty 
mining  zec will earn 2-6 usd a day  for up to 3 years  that is 1095 days

at 2 dollars = 2 x 1095 = 2190
at 6 dollars = 6 x 1095 = 6570

every factor  is controlled  the waterblock card costs  850 

my  power cost factor is always 50% 

  so 2190/2 = 1095 - 850 = 245 profit

and 6570/2 = 3285- 850 = 2435 profit

I simply cant do this with asics.
I am not the only person  that can control  all factors except diff+price
I use the solar array deal I have with buysolar
I use long warranty gpus
I do sell them  used when a good time comes around to sell them

If bitmain makes all asic all the time for all coins  it will kill me off simply because I can not  guarantee 3 year run time for the gear.

I repeat  I am not the only person  doing this.

If you mine to a bigger solar array like I do 160 kwatt/ 5 = 32 kwatt 24/7/365

you have free power up to 32 kwatt a day please note you need to be grid tied with a good government to do this New Jersey is good as are some other states and countries.

I can not lose  with my deal unless the gear breaks down  so to me asics suck  gpus are good.

It will be very interesting to see how this shakes out.

18 processors get 1G?  55M/processor with 4G ddr3(72/18=4)?i don't think so......

650mh/s with 72 DDR3 memory? Its Simply Nonsense, and I tell u why:
So what we know is the RX 580 has 192Gb/s bandwidth and able to perform ~30mh/s
Well if we choose the best DDR3 memory with 1866Mhz (1866000000 Hz) then we can calculate 1 ddr3 memo chips's bandwidth. It's has a 64bit lane so 1866000000*64*8/1024/1024/1024=14.9 GB/s this is 1 DDr3 memo chip's bandwidth.
14.9*72=1074 Gb/s this is the total memory bandwidth with 72 ddr3 chip. So 1074/192*30=~168 Mh/s this could be the maximum eth mining performance with 72 ddr3 chips. Everything else is bullshit.  ;)

Thank you for sharing this important message. I hope the influential folks can talk more. Tell us the plan and reaction.

These numbers are correct.

The only interesting factor remaining is power consumption. If it's around 500w AND priced well it could be worth buying but nothing to get overly excited about :)

168Mh/s @ 500W? There is no point in buying that asic, every 6x 1060 3gb with samsung will give you 140Mh/s @ 460W. Better resale value, not mentioning the warranty...

You are talking about GPU for gaming and not full system design to mine ETH. Think about optimisation in code and so one...

It's not going to be an asic per say.  It will more than likely be a chip or 8 with a shitton of ram.  It will be about 200 has like the 8 card rigs out there already.  Of course no one really knows anything about anything as its all hearsay.  If they could keep such a tight lip on A3 I find it hard to believe they would leak this...

why would anyone buy Ethereum miner when eth plan to shift POS?

dont listen to this metroid trolls all he does is scream around the forum to make baseless, ignorant trolls to confuse newcomers.

this will correct the GPU demand by eth miners hoarding and retailers hoarding old GPU and selling at a huge markup..

everyone needs to completely flood the networkhash rate mining with 2-3 of these asics...


then GPUs can finally be at their real price point for gamers

sounds good ... how long until release..-like 3 weeks ?  ;D ;D

It will take many steps/years for ETH to be fully POS.

Someone said this in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018...2020

Yes, this is what I was thinking as well.  A few people in this thread have said it would be impossible for memory at that speed to hash at a rate higher than what the video cards can currently do, but my thought was that if you had a dedicated ASIC chip designed to do nothing but that math well, connected directly to memory, all highly optimized for nothing but that math, then it just might be possible.   But, this is all speculation so far.  It would not surprise me if Bitmain does release this.   I remember seeing that Samsung was getting into supplying chips, could they be supplying the memory chips for this new Bitmain asic perhaps?  It's all very interesting :-)

Also remember they are using leftover DDR3. Overall price may be cheaper than you anticipate. If they hit 5x 580 performance at 1000 dollars and 1/2 power they'll sell out like hotcakes.

why do they call it a ASIC miner when it's using DDR3 memory .... the way it reads after i looked at the press release .....when it is clearly not a ASIC miner unless I'm missing something .


"I think ASICs are inevitable when the coin is valuable. But that’s not a bad thing."

why are ASIC miners not a bad thing when we saw how bitmain destroyed mining any thing with GPU aka ltc and btc ......an sia .... which you can't mine with gpu's any more ...because of there greed . an it is greed ...

On the other hand if they would keep there prices down and make ASIC miners for homes like they used to, i would agree but they don't any more .....

Looking at the specs it seems each core has a total of 4 GB of memory. That's going to be an issue in the long run since once Ethereum reaches Epoch 384 the DAG file size will be too large to fit in 4 GB. At the current rate that's going to happen in the beginning of 2021. However, should Ethereum devs decice to speed up Epoch switches then that deadline could be hit much sooner. It seems like an easy way to render the ASIC out of date without resorting to hard forking the algorithm or switching to PoS.

They would NEVER do that because at the same time youd screw over everyone with a 3 or 4 GB GPU.... That means all 1060 3GB's, all 1050ti 4GB's and any RX 470/480/570/580 with 4GB (which is the major one here).

Epochs will never be "sped up".

Good joke. You guys realize that Bitmain sells GPU rigs? They wouldn't have started selling GPU rigs if they had an ETH asic in the pipeline and release it 6 months later, not to speak of the numbers not adding up.

By the way there was a rumor last autumn :    Bitmain Debuts High-Speed Ethereum GPU Miners After Dash Rollout

"Currently visible only on the Chinese version of its site, the G1 and G2 provide Ethereum GPU mining at up to 220Mh/s."

Article of 5 months old :

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitmain-debuts-high-speed-ethereum-gpu-miners-after-dash-rollout

"hash will be 200-220 MH / s.   Price -    $ 2500- $ 3000."
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16 February 2018
The world’s largest producer of mining equipment Bitmain is working on the creation of Antminer F3 - ASIC-miner for the second largest capitalization of crypto currency Ethereum. This is reported by IBTimes referring to local technology publications. This is reported by Ib Times.

As the source notes, Antminer F3 will be equipped with three motherboards in each of which will be installed on six devices for the Ethereum mining. Each board will have 32 DDR3 RAM modules with a capacity of 1 GB. According to a number of sources, the hash of the device will be 200-220 MH / s, but with the specified specifications, this figure can be expected to be higher

It is assumed that the production of new equipment for the production of ETH will begin at the end of this month. In the world market the novelty will appear approximately in II-III quarter of this year. The price of Antminer F3 will be set at $ 2500- $ 3000.

Not saying they would or should do it but why would Eth devs care about 3/4GB GPU miners? There's still plenty of 6/8GB GPU miners to keep the network safe and decentralized.

I suggest mods close this thread right away and label as "B.S. from china topic doesn't belong here".

Lets get over this already, seriously... Anyone who knows anything about ETHASH knows this F3 is B.S.

Well, actually that's numbers can be valids, because if you do the math with 32 1Gbit ddr3 1866 module*3 (4GB per board) then 32*3*14.9/192*30=~223.5Mh/s (=~7x RX 580).

How many watt?

Then, this carries no real threat to the estblished GPU mining market.   It is quite similar to Panda B3 miner with 230 MH/s, 1250W  (8 x RX470)

Power consumption is not mentioned on the article which i cited.    I doubt it is 500W as previously mentioned, as similar miners (Panda) has more than 1kW

I don't even know why u ppl panic, cuz you just switch ur rigs to another algo and that's it... that the power of GPU ... multi algo :) Asic is signle algo ... you are not in a D3 wonderland :)

That is like a full 10-12 GPU RIG. anyone know what is gonna be the F3 price?

I though that developing Ethereum ASIC would be unprofitable because of their plans to switch to PoS, but it seems like Bitmain has calculated otherwise. Maybe it will be usable to mine other coins with the same algorithm. But since it won't be able to mine all GPU algorithms, GPU mining will still be around for a long time, so if this ASIC will take over ETH mining, current ETH miners will just switch to other coins.


I thought so too :O

As stated above, when taking the 3x32GB boards as true (total 96GB) it would give a theoretical maximum of around 230MH/s.
It's main advantage could be lower cost than equivalent GPU hashing power at around 60% of the power usage.

Fwiw what I’ve been told is that they will be releasing new boxed style gpu rig withs stripped down cards aka 8 generic rx580 etc (think pandaminer style but better)

If they are able to produce ASIC miners for Dagger, they will be able to produce for other algos and it will cause trouble for gpu miners in the future.

They are able to make ASICs for every algo, the question is only when it becomes economically viable to do so.
When you have a coin that is only profitable to mine with up to 10.000 gpu's for example it will not be viable to make an ASIC for only that.

an asic miner for eth hash algo that will shift the whole mining world upside down i know there is alot of other algorithm that can be mined with a gpu but that means that any algo that clams to be an asic proof in the future will be an asic specific for it

If it is indeed 650Mh/s @ <1000W then I will be making a business trip to Asia this spring.

Scary/Exciting times.

If that is true, I think there will be a change of the mining algorithm.

I came up with ~250Mh if they have optimal straps on ddr3-1866.  When it comes to power consumption I expect it to be well under 1000W.  I have no intention of buying one, and I'm not at all concerned it will render my GPUs worthless.  I might even be able to buy a nice new Rx580 for < $200 then.

It will be less than half that.  The math is straightforward: ethash requires 8 gigabytes/s of memory bandwidth per megahash.  Add up the number of DDR-3 chips in the miner (18 x 32 = 576), and even if they are overclocking 16-bit wide DDR3-1866, the total speed will be less than 300Mh.

Maybe difference between GDDR5 and DDR3 affects your formula, too? Ethash algorithm maybe actually favor DDR3?

Well, you've got the right idea but the wrong numbers.  Rx 580 @2Ghz has 256GB/s of bandwidth not 192 (R9 380 @1.5Ghz has 192).  ddr3 is available in x8 and x16, and since x16 has twice the bandwidth, that's likely what Bitmain will use.  Going with those numbers I come up with 250-300Mh/s.

I dont think people quite understand the amount of gpus are mining eth.  If, and that is a big if this comes out you cant take that amount of gpus and just switch mining to another coin.  Yes in theory you can but that will crush diff in a massive amount of those coins.

This works both ways. Massive number of GPUs mining Eth means that adding a few thousands ASICs wont affect the difficulty at all. Even adding a hundred thousands ASICs wont render GPU mining non-profitable. I wonder how many ASICS Bitmain can produce. There's a shortage of DDR3/4 chips so they will be limited by the number of chips they can source.

(1) Bitmain has already done similar things in the past. They released the S7 in Oct 2015, and barely 8 months later (Jun 2016) they released the S9 with next-gen chips & better efficiency.

(2) Bitmain's GPU rigs, even if obsoleted by an Ethereum ASIC, will still be viable for any of the numerous other GPU mineable coins.

Indeed, you are right with the bandwidth of RX 580, I found that 192gb/s from a shitty site, but your formula is wrong too. I made 2 mistakes, the first is the bad bandwidth, the second is that I used 64bit bitrate for 1 chip but 1 chip  has just maximum 16 bit/clock , this is refers to the x16 (or x8 or x4), 64bit is the bitrate of the full DDR3 stick with many memo chips. So we have 3x32 1Gbit chips. Let me recalculate this: 1.866*16*32*3/8/256*30=~39.3 Mh/s

Each core has 32x 1Gbit chips so you should multiply that number by 6 since there are six cores per board.

I predict it's going to be exactly 0 MH/s Vapourware.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

How can any one of you even think it's not profitable for Bitmain to produce this mines, they will get instantly paid 20-30m $ .. and you are the one that might end up being f.... over if they move ethereum to POS ..

They don't care if this happens, they will bank on it instantly :)

Please STOP with the Ethereum POS crap.  It will be ONE PERCENT POS...if and when it finally starts...until they figure out if they want to go more.

That gives you forever and day.

Nail on the head with that.  Whether or not this thing is ever profitable for them to do is meaningless as they will sell out immediately when (if) they come out with them.  Insta profit, remember shovel salesman always win in the mining game

Mining profitability is constantly dropping. I had already sold all my rigs in December.

ETH asic would put nail on the coffin, I will not return anytime soon.

I really don't understand one thing.Everyone saying that If/when ASIC Miner F3 will be released, all gpu's miners will be useless and it will be END of gpu mining eth.

So you want to say that all people, all corporation who having hundreds and thousands of gpu rigs, who making hundreds of thousands $ mining eth, who have big farms of mining rig will be forced to stop and all gpus useless for mining eth? its really hard to believe...

need information about speed and power consum

They will not stop, just switch to different coins if difficulty will grow too much. Also even if Antminer F3 get's out and makes 200-300 Mh/s it won't stop people from mining with GPU, only new ones will switch to asic miner instead of buying GPU, because it will be cheaper. The miners who already mine will continue as their ROI was already achieved and those Antminers won't be a huge competition at first. Also if people will switch to antminers the GPU price will drop and building your rig will cost again around 2k, so it will help to lower the GPU prices.

Only if Antminer F3 will make 500+ Mh/s for the same price of 3k and only than GPU rigs will be useless...

Guys.. the first Eth ASIC miner is already here. ~200Mh/s, 700-750W, $2k

where?

you can find it easily on google, but they are bought up instantly here in asia and the pre-orders are in the magnitude of hundreds (if not thousands).

so much for all the theories and math about eth asic being not feasible  ::)

I hope you don't mean this one...
https://asicminermarket.com/product/am200-ethereum-miner-batch2-200mhs-can-for-all-gpu-coin/

That's not an ASIC, this is a MXM RX 470 GPU strapped on a custom PCB.

Guess this is what he's talking about. LOL


https://www.eastshore.xyz/shop/ethereum-miner-geass-198mh-asic-miner-for-ether-mining/

http://www.eastshore.xyz/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/ethereum-miner-198MH.jpg

^ yes that

I guess you could argue that's also a bunch of cheap AMD cards strapped together, but if the hashrate and power draw are true, then this beats any traditional eth mining rigs

7 heavily undervolted RX 570 consume about 750W from the wall while solo mining. There's nothing special in this.

hmm ok, carry on then. But still, those numbers beat what antmain is claiming about their asic, which is 200-220mhs @ $2500

when I inquire the company about availability, they said the demand is too big for them to handle atm and the wait will be "very long"

So Bitmain has actually confirmed that it’s true? I wouldn’t mind it... asics are in general less space consuming and have easy setups..

Bitmain hasen't claimed anything. It's a rumor posted on a Chinese website and the article didn't mention anything about hash rate.

ok i'll shut up now

BEWARE !!
Avira antivirus blocks this site on my PC as "phishing website" !!!

Hopefully this will reduce GPU prices back to normal and we can build a GPU rig for 2k again... This is a welcome for us, because with those hash rates Asic miners is not too competitive and GPU has more value when reselling and warranty lasts 2-3 years, while Asic miners have only 6 months usually...

I would personally never buy anything from a website that ends in ".xyz". Just my 2 cents.

do not hope about price falling if gpu still profitable. And releasing new ampere dont change the situation

At first as I saw the title of ETH Asic miner, I think RIP my rigs, but as I saw the price, it's hurt not much the current GPU's rig, actually its price is a bit cheaper than 6 x RX580 rig.

Cant you mine any ethhash coin with this asic?

How will the movement towards Casper effect this miner?

Potentially!

198mh/s @760w?

That is better than most gpu hash/w rates.

Im assuming BITMAIN is gonna trounce all over this.

usually GB ist Gigabyte
and Gbit is Gigabit

So finally your calculation should be wrong

Eastshore has been and is a reputable reseller of miners and I've ordered gear from them and received it I timely fashion. Plenty of other forum members have also bought from them, and besides their products being sold higher than direct (they have to make a profit too) there's absolutely nothing wrong with them.

so what's the conclusion? what bct collective wisdom produced?
is there an actual dagger-hashimoto asic coming?

If you ask me this is good for the ETH miners, because the price is not competitive at the moment, but I hope that some of the miners will switch from GPU rigs to asic and with that we could get a price reduction on GPU's, because the prices now are too expensive...

From the info I've seen so far I draw three conclusions:
1) it's just a rumour and is more likely bs
2) any "asic" would hardly be any better than an efficient gpu setup
3) impact would be minimal

Nothing to see here, move along.

ETH will be great again, a coin for long term holding.

Yeah the ASICs will drive the price crazy high. Just HOLD ethereum

Let's hope they don't Sell too many.. And make it non profitable.

Non profitable to mine = people will prefer to buy ethereums = higher ethereum price

We will see only the future will show :)

Yip, only time will tell.

That just hasn't happened for other coins though, LTC, DASH, SIA...
Unless Bitmain makes an official statement, the F3 remains nothing more than a rumor, one that makes little sense with Casper crawling closer.

is it a ASIC?

https://ethermine.org/miners/66beb8Db052512b162d9F5d77C13451a8262e08E

Nice find dude.
One worker 725g/h sure looks like one to me...  no more new gpus for me. :'(

it is definitely not one. You can have all your rigs use the same worker name and it will all be aggregated into 1.

The only reason to split them up is to debug which one has problems. If you dont mind or has other ways to monitor then you can simply have them all register using 1 worker name.

you people really haven't bothered to look at how mining works, or history...

These guys have probably been running them for months and will only release when ROI is over 6 months.

http://www.baikalminer.com/index.php#page-top

bitmain is just effectively packing 18*4GB Gpus onto 3 compute boards and optimizing the bus so they work more effective(less power usage). with the p104 hasing @40Mhs, 18 of them would be 720Mhs but using over 2kW.

I wouldnt really call this an ASIC.

Indeed. You hit the nail right on the head.

Regardless of power consumption, I think people are more worried about its easy purchasing and thus upping the universal hash rate and difficulty.
Its the first ETH ASIC so it's not going to be amazing. But it is the start of ASIC attack that is a worry.

Hoping for PoS soon.

Color me confused...but won't ethereum just FORK

I know the Baikal N unit is gonna try to slam a mess of GPU coins with that ASIC and there

is a groundswell to fork and make the units doorstops before they even ship

(fun times)

or does Bitmain have enough of a solution with other coins this does not matter

anyway, curious on their options ...on such...

I think ETH can increase the GPU memory usage to 7-10GB or higher, then the ASIC might be useless.

holy crap.. this explains why there has been a sudden surge of 20-30 TH/s on ethermine pool in the last month alone. It is insane. RIP eth mining.

Very much possible

Keeping an eye on this for sure.

Hi All.

If we do the math, this would be like the power of 30.000 gpu's with a hashrate of 33Mhs which costs 500-600$, I think an asic could produce more hashrate than a gpu but I think is not going to increase the hashrate of a 3.000$ hardware which cost 5X more than a gpu to a 30.000 times which a gpu produces.

So, as you can name different workers with the same name and you can seen it in Ethermine as just 1 worker, is hard to know the hardware of this worker, and in addition if I would have this equipment,and it would be an asic, why any company would sell it, would be more profitable to keep it and continue mining than sell this technology.

 

What about this article ?

https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20180313PD204.html

More likely someone using Nicehash, or a GPU farm that didn't bother with individual names for it's workers.

The pattern of work looks more like a large Nicehash buyer though.

It's not much better than a standard 6 card GTX 1070 rig
One of my current *5* card GTX 1070 rigs (the only one on an Intel MB at this point) pulls 155-156 Mhash at a little over 600 watts - WITH the G4600 CPU mining Monero.

I think I've seen info about this one elsewhere that it's an 8 card 1060 based machine using those "passive cooled" type cards intended for notebook usage.

Not sure about how it is possible to crack Dagger-Hashimoto algorithm  but I'm more than confident it wont be a profitable business for Bitmain or any other party who attempts to do so.

First of all, this is a crack, ASIC is a crack by definition and bitcoin's SHA2 is a cracked algorithm. It is never a good news for an algorithm and its users that it has been broken by a specialized devil chip.

Bitcoin has tolerated this crack because it has no other choice, this community is too divergent to reach a consensus about such a big issue, changing PoW algorithm, but just take a look at Monero, they will change their algo in a matter of weeks and nobody will care about a Monero-Classic (whatever) dominated by Bitmain ASICs and abandoned by the lead developers.

It is why I don't believe Bitmain to do such a crazy risk. developing an ASIC is a hell of an investment and Vitalik Buterin is not the one who you should mess with. They have not devised an ASIC resistant algorithm in Ethereum.org to be simply broken by a crazy investor. They won't say: Well, let Bitmain take control we will switch to PoS eventually.

Ethereum is not bitcoin, you can not, you should not touch it without double checking everything with the community and the dot ORG and believe me they don't like ASICs  ;)

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/26/analyst-slashes-amd-nvidia-price-targets-on-new-cryptocurrency-mining-chip-from-china.html


Why wait three years to develop ETH ASIC? And then release it just before the rumored POS switch?

There is really no need to even be involved in crypto currencies or bitcoin once asic takes over every single coin. You just choosing between a centralized government or a centralized private mining entity. If that's the case I would rather choose the government.

Because they mined with these and then sell to idiots

Money.  ~$10M/day is made mining ETH now.  A year ago it was ~$1M/day, and 15 months ago it was <$500K/day.
Bitmain's ethash miner is not going to have a significant impact, because unlike bitcoin and sia mining, it requires large amounts of RAM.  The costs of the RAM significantly exceeds the costs of the ASICs.
At US$450, ETH is now 1/3 of it's peak in Jan, and that is what is having the biggest impact on mining and GPU demand.  Summer is coming in the Norther Hemisphere, which means miners with expensive electricity costs will be shutting down rigs.  Unless the price of ETH climbs back over $1000, I predict the GPU shortage will be over by mid-summer, and GPU cards will be readily available at their MSRP.

I'm happy to report I was able to get some gtx 1060 6GB Founders Edition on nvidia's website for msrp 299 USD.. I subscribed to their notification and was alerted that they were in stock a day before, then I snagged up a couple.

a couple?? you mean 2... u cant buy more then 2...

Check Ebay, you can pickup 1060s right now for $260 shipped.

I just dont understand how they could make it happen since memory price is a way expensive, while their asic miner was claimed with 72 Gb RAM, so how's it possible with just around 2k usd for 200 mhs. Now I think Bitmain already has many asic miner for ETH and XMR, they just release the miners out to market as XMR is going to change algorithm, or ETH moves to PoS. So, let see how it's going.

On this article 650mh/s 750w is NOT F3 photo shows it is innosilicon A4+ which is 620mh/s with 750w.
So this asic is A4+ see the green light it is innosilicon's.

Besides that they run 12GPU ETH RIGS.
Why they run RIG while thy have F3S?

Yes, "a couple" means 2. Perhaps it is best not to correct others on English if you don't really know English...

He didn't try to correct you, he rather asked does "a couple" mean 2 ;)


Hm, maybe ACIS manufacturers are the main reason for high RAM prices?

I think that after the ASIC for the ETH comes out, the developers will come up with some new protection, so it will be a constant struggle between ASIC and GPU.

I agree. If devs said in the white-paper that their algo is ASIC resistant, they mean it and they will change the algo if necessary just to make sure no ASICs are in the game.

Oh man, do you really believe that Bitmain will listen to society here? Just see why is their account tagged by DT members.
Also it's another thing what you have to do and it's another what you actually do. Bitmain really don't cared about others, their only aim is to get control on things and get huge profit too.
So I bet they will release asic for ether.

From what I've heard the hashrate will be combined with the price, it barely competes with an optimized rig, I mean it's nothing like other ASICs, which I guess makes sense since Ethereum relies on memory speed, and using that massive amount of DDR3 doesn't seem very cost effective (I mean, why didn't they use DDR4)
Also the only confirmed Eth ASIC I've seen is really lackluster
https://www.eastshore.xyz/shop/ethereum-miner-geass-198mh-asic-miner-for-ether-mining/

Ethereum probably won't bother changing their algorithm, since they're getting fairly close to POS at which point ALL mining goes "poof".

Any Bitmain ASIC for ethash algorithm better be bloody LOW in price for anyone to have a prayer of making their money back on them, especially if the estimated "still a couple months off" release date I've seen mentioned a couple places proves to be correct or on the LOW side.

I would be inclined to call this "mistake #2 Bitmain has made this year", following in the footsteps of their Cryptonight miner.

Too bad they're still making money hand-over-fist on their SHA256 and Scrypt miners and can AFFORD to make a few multi-million dollar mistakes like this.

Have any of you ever looked into the company from Wallstreet (that is actually located in Pennsylvania)? They are super shady. Google them.

ETH devs have always said that the PoS change won't be instant but gradual, starting with 1% of blocks being mined by stakers and going to 100% over the course of a year or longer.

The only question is - did bitmain pay off the dev team well enough for them to allow ASIC's on the network? Because ETH devs have the power to do what monero did and just fork to a modified algorithm, there is no reason to stick with the current algorithm if they get nothing out of it.

Wall Street firm Susquehanna told clients in a note that Bitmain will be shipping an ASIC for mining ETH starting in the second quarter of 2018, adding that although “Bitmain is likely to be the largest ASIC vendor (currently 70-80% of Bitcoin mining ASICs) and the first to market with this product, we have learned of at least three other companies working on Ethereum ASICs, all at various stages of development."

 ;)

Antminer F3 is already there in the wild?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L-1iG6mdJ8&feature=youtu.be

If this is really true I'll sell every coin I have and leave ETH, and probably cryptos, decentralization is my  &¨%%¨$#

hahahahhahahaha look how fast it is now.

all of you now you see.

That's a first april prank! The real time hash rate doesn't match :D I've looked at every antminer version that I own and they all match in real time :)

This will be interesting to see it finally make it. One thing is for sure, it's going to kill GPU mining when all those rigs start switching to other coins

it already has killed gpu mining...
its been out since last year. bitmain did this exact strategy with monero asic... how do you not see it ?

That is NOT an ASIC rig, that is a GPU rig using "laptop" type GPUs.

DDR3 has one advantage over newer memory architecture....it handles small chunks much better then DDR4/5

DDR3 memory is faster than GDDR5 memory when you only want to fetch a tiny chunk. GDDR is designed to access huge chunks with high throughput. DDR4 vs GDDR5 for a 128 bit fetch is no-contest DDR4 winner. In addition to that, FPGAs now support OpenCL, with a properly designed FPGA setup, a miner with an OpenCL shouldnt even notice its running on a FPGA

https://www.vijaypradeep.com/blog/2017-04-28-ethereums-memory-hardness-explained/

Also this is interesting....

https://www.ccn.com/ethereum-developer-opens-eip-to-discuss-bricking-ethash-asic-miners/

They have had that GPU rig you talk about out on the Chinese site for more than 6 months, I think it was...this is really an ASIC from what I've heard....

I've also heard that the ram needed for this puppy to work, even as an ASIC is huge..thus around a 12k price tag..

with the price and possibility of a quick ETH fork looks beyond dangerous to dive in on

and if it is a GPU rig like the Chinese ones they have been pushing....it is cheaper now and better to make a NVIDIA rig..again from what I'm told

I don't GPU mine


anyway, my 2 bits worth

An Ethereum developer has opened an Ethereum Improvement Proposal (EIP) to discuss whether the community should modify its Ethash mining algorithm to maintain ASIC resistance.  The EIP is a direct response to reports that Bitmain — by far the largest manufacturer of mining rigs that use Application Specific Integrated Circuit (ASIC) chips — has developed an Ethash ASIC miner and will begin shipping them within the next several months.

- by the way the same proposal to change algorithm was for the SIA coin, after Bitmain launched it's miner.    But finally SIA decided not to do so.

I predicted this would happen, I told many times what would happen before it happened,  sia devs got shot in the head. It served them well. Their greediness taught them a lesson.

Don't really understand why SIA community did not agree to change in algorithm?  This might punish Bitmain at least.

I know why and they will never officially tell anybody this, Bitmain bought them up, all of them to leave things as it is. Well in the end sia devs got their money and will earn a fraction of money as per asics sold by bitmain. It is all crooked business as usual.

Wow how unfair to developers of  Obelisc miners, and to those who has bought these miners , with delivery end of this summer...

I told the people buying the obelisks this would happen, they never listened, they never listen anyway. They got what they deserved as well.

The question is if eth devs will be bought up too by bitmain, 3 billion dollar company hehe, we will be back in this topic soon. I mean, Bitmain has been mining eth for 4 months and eth devs ignored that. I wonder why hehe

Sia wanted ASICS for their network. Their machines the obelisks paid for. With btc already from last year.
If Bitmain rigs can replace. No loss for Sia Tech.

If you read VB's twitter comments today about ASICs; he is open to them.
And is proposing a hard cap of 120 million ETH instead. While it will counter the evangelistic approach of ETH so far it will make it harder to mine eventually but the coin will retain its value somewhat i.e this is an anti deflationary measure. EIP 960.  

-On the other hand we have EIP 958 open also. so please sign up/vote if you want to fork ETH. https://github.com/ethereum/EIPs/issues/958 (https://github.com/ethereum/EIPs/issues/958)

Turns out the Bitmain E3 (NOT the F3 as reported) is not exactly a big GPU mining killer.

180 Mhash
800 watts

About the the SAME performance as a well-tuned 6 card RX 580/480 based rig, and slightly INFERIOR to a well-tuned 6-card GTX 1070 based rig.

On the other hand, at $800 they WILL sell these things probably as fast as they can make them, for a while.

First batch isn't shipping 'till mid-July though - achieving 100% ROI is going to be a bit iffy even if POS gets pushed back a couple more times.

http://shop.bitmain.com/product/detail?pid=00020180403174908564M8dMJKtz06B7

Note that Bitmain would have to sell well over ONE MILLION of these units to double the current ETH Network Hashrate (at current numbers right around 1.75 million, then add in a few hundred thousand more to cover ETC and the other forked ethash coins).
It took them almost 2 YEARS to achieve close to One Million sales on the S9, and the S9 is higher performance and efficiency than ANYTHING ELSE currently shipping.


Don't bother forking the algorithm on ETH for THESE miners, it's not worth the time and trouble.

Turns out bitmain is hiding the gpu killer --> F3.

Or the F3 isn't an ethash miner - perhaps it's for some other algorithm?

Equihash (zcash) has more room for optimization in an ASIC than ethash.  The first round in equihash is dominated by blake hash speed, which is much faster in an ASIC than a GPU (and Bitmain already has blake miners).  The subsequent rounds can be significantly faster with a modest-sized multi-banked SRAM.  Something with 256 banks of 1KB should be at least 2x faster than a Rx 480, even if the ASIC is clocked below 1Ghz.

The numbers in that F3 video are NOT consistent with it being an Equihash miner - it was showing over 2 THOUSAND times more hashrate than a GTX 1080 ti.

I was thinking more likely Lyra2RE2 or perhaps Nist5.

damn, I've been out of the loop. when was it first available for sale? I see it sold out

ETH vs BITMAIN = soon 1-0

you mean 0-1
their not forking.

I've somewhat changed my mind, after a couple facts collided in my mind last night.

I'm now thinking that the video claiming to be a "F3" model was more likely a prototype of a 14/16nm node next generation Bitmain SCRYPT miner (the hashrate is right where I would expect such a unit to end up).

The sale Bitmain started on the L3+ a couple days ago is looking like their usual "fire sale the old model, sell out our Hashnet units, as we replace them with the initial output of our first production run of the more efficient unit".

My tuned RX 580 Special Edition GPU mine at 31 MH\s while consuming below 90 Watts
They have 2 years warranty not 6 months
They come from very well established "ÄMD" provider not from a shady one
You can buy the GPUs from a local shop and return it to the same local shop to swap it for a new GPU in case something goes wrong
You can buy it TODAY, you dont have to wait for 4 to 6 months

I dont see personalty ANY advantage for those called ASICs
They are just a punch of cheap memory chips, they are not really ASICs

One last thing,
You can also play games on a GPU :) ...

keep dreaming

bitmain has 70% of eth hashrate with these asics alone. They selling it for $800 but how much you think it costs them to run and deploy for themselves? prob around half that price... Wake up.

Go by "at the wall" measurements, as nothing on the AMD side reports the power usage of the entire card because AMD's HARDWARE on the card only measures power usage of the GPU itself.

Software like Afterburner and Wattman ALWAYS get the power usage wrong, and UNDERreport it a lot on AMD cards as a result.

It's correct for what it is reporting.  As you pointed out, often people are just looking at the power consumption of the GPU, from the output side of the VRM.  Power to the input side of the VRM will be ~10% higher, and there is a separate VRM for the RAM.  There's usually one or two more power rails as well, but their power consumption is minor compared to the GPU & RAM.

Not saying it's incorrect on what it's reporting - just pointing out that it doesn't measure WHOLE CARD consumption unlike Nvidia cards, so the numbers are not comparable and tends to make AMD cards look better on a comparison against Nvidia cards or ASIC miners.

I agree with that. But if ETH want to stick with ASIC, find another good coin.

How did you figure the 70% of eth hashrate number?

NOTE: 31MH/s of Ethash on 14nm Polaris consumes around 120W with the core running at around 850mv

NOTE2: Also re ASICs: GPU is also an ASIC and apparently it's good for more than just graphics processing... It's all a matter of R&D and production investment vs the returns.

They apparently believe the unsupported claims by Marvel2 about the majority of existing ETH hashrate being ASIC, despite all the evidence against those claims and ZERO supporting evidence.

how is this unsupported, we saw the same pattern with monero, huge exeplained jumps in difficulty when gpus were in short supply. Monero forks snd poof 60 % of the hashrate disspears lol.

Eth is older and the jumps happpen far earlier, Ive been mining since 2013 and I saw all these jumps first hand , the biggest one around june or oct of last year (id have to look at the chart) gpus had been out of stock since febuary and all of a sudden we go from around 90th to 120 then 150 then 180th, basically jumps of 30 th a month in a time of gpu
not being available. 

Gimme a break if you all cant read the pattern or have your heads in the sand or what i font know.

and now Shitmain magically lists a new E3 miner forcsale in massive amounts , this from a company we already know
mines with thier gear for at least a year before selling these old model chips to you idiot peons?

Maybe I shouls start a detective agency or something becuase it seems I’m one of the few who cam put a simple two and two together ... thats four right? lol

Monero(Cryptonight) can't be compared to ethash, as the algorithms are very different.  If you are actually interested in understanding ethash (& equihash) look at my posting history as I've analyzed both in-depth as well as done a lot of kernel coding.  Ethash also doesn't have botnets like Monero, which is likely where much of the hashrate drop came from after the fork.

You're basically doing a better job proving yourself wrong.  GPUs have been back-ordered due to high demand from mining; AMD can't ramp up production fast enough to keep up with demand.
"Revenue was $1.65 billion, up 40 percent year-over-year and 23 percent quarter-over-quarter, driven primarily by higher revenue in the Computing and Graphics segment."
http://ir.amd.com/news-releases/news-release-details/amd-reports-first-quarter-2018-financial-results

https://eurominers.net

STAY AWAY....

How about some details?

made an order and never received...

worth read

The State of Cryptocurrency Mining

https://blog.sia.tech/the-state-of-cryptocurrency-mining-538004a37f9b?gi=c19ab72bd445

This is actually a well-written article by someone who is competent in the mining industry. I can't find any reason to deny his findings on ASICs and further, I can't help but admire the thorough analysis that this person has done.

If a person this smart is part of the Siacoin team, it makes me want to invest more in Siacoin.