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Limited availability on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Redhash-105-Gh-s-ASIC-Bitcoin-Miner-Avalon-clone-/321233038462?#shpCntId (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Redhash-105-Gh-s-ASIC-Bitcoin-Miner-Avalon-clone-/321233038462?#shpCntId)

Auction: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303379.0;all (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303379.0;all)


Five months ago, I and two partners founded TAV (thinairventures.com) (http://thinairventures.com), a company designing and selling ASIC miners. We have been operating in stealth mode, and today is our launch day! We are proudly announcing our first product: Redhash, a 105 Ghash/sec miner, available right now. We are selling a limited number of units in an online auction starting at 15 BTC per Redhash unit. The auction is denominated in bitcoins, but we accept various forms of payment.

15 BTC with units shipping now is clearly profitable: http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/44fc645248 (55% month-over-month difficulty increase), and even a pessimistic 100% (http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/75a2d29326) month-over-month increase is profitable. Also, 15 BTC for 105 Ghash/sec beats the price per Ghash/sec of any competitor shipping now or in October!

Redhash Specs

Redhash is an improved Avalon clone Bitcoin miner:
- 105 Ghash/sec (320 chips at 328 MHz)
- Standard 4U/19" rack-mountable chassis: the feature most requested by Avalon owners
- Highly modular: 32 individually-replaceable hash units
- 100% compatible with 80-chip Avalon "modules" which fit the Redhash backplanes
- Easy to service: remove the top cover (5 screws), and no other screws or cables need to be removed or detached to replace individual hash units
- Best chassis and mechanical design for upcoming 2nd-generation Avalon ASICs
- Power consumption: 940W at the wall (120-240V), outputting 780-790W at DC (12V), making our provided PSU (Corsair TX850M) run at 92-93% of its maximum load
- Oversized chassis accepts all "long" PSUs such as Corsair AX1200
- Ships from the USA: no customs for US buyers
- Fans ignore PWM control - always run at 100% speed for maximum cooling (very noisy! You may replace them with standard PWM-controllable fans for quieter operation, but this necessitates downclocking below 328 MHz!)
- Warranty: Guaranteed working on delivery

https://i.imgur.com/WgS2GkJ.jpg
(For more picture, see bottom of this post.)

Who we are

I am Marc Bevand (aka mrb), a longtime trusted active member of the Bitcoin community since December 2010. My first adventure with Bitcoin was to develop what was at the time the fastest GPU miner for AMD Radeon cards, hdminer (https://bitcointalk.org/?topic=2949). My business partners are Bertrand Darnault and Jonny Gerold. I have known Bertrand for 9 years, we both graduated from the same computer science school (Epita) from the class of 2003.  And I have known Jonny for a little over a year, since we met as coworkers. All three of us are just as highly fascinated about Bitcoin as each other.

Why you can trust us

We understand that trust in a vendor is primordial in the Bitcoin mining world. We have done numerous things the "right" way in order to establish trust:

• From the beginning, TAV's vision was to avoid offering risky preorders as they inflict stress and incertitude on customers. So, unlike the vast majority of ASIC vendors, TAV does not require preorders. Our miners are in stock, available today, already developed and working, ready to ship.
• We can prove we ordered 10,000 Avalon chips, which were used to build our Redhash miners. We sent 782.1 BTC from our address 1AAoyFmZuUbVpNUJFCCSJbZQSvSRm8vPad to Bitsyncom’s temporary address 1H9whoZUz1iNyBagMUrudw3AnoRqLHKpH5 (https://blockchain.info/address/1H9whoZUz1iNyBagMUrudw3AnoRqLHKpH5) on April 21, 2013. As seen in the blockchain, this amount was almost instantly re-transferred to Bitsyncom’s well-known address used for receiving Avalon chip payments: 1FGAftzSTztFSB8LMwsrdCKTyqGY6zr3sU. The message "TAV ordered 10,000 Avalon chips on April 21, 2013" has been signed with our sending address. The signature is G5bJki+cSGKJcVA27qI7vspAQnWc19n2VXvzxlsBR7/wO6fiavyoMIp/vPcUVlchtfMjnBeWXQn+ZYq96rFfVSc= and can be verified by anyone:
  
  

• On June 14, 2013, we were the first to demonstrate a working Avalon clone by posting a "teaser" post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=234173.0
• We have been testing all our Redhash miners (a bit less than 10,000 chips = approximately 3 terrahash/sec) on the pool Eligius for the last 2-3 days to publicly demonstrate that our hardware is working: http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1NkkkghQHFNs8H1hAmKDM9fJo4mBkoHeej Notice the nickname of this address has been set to our company name "Thin Air Ventures" (TAV) on the pool's website.
• We provide multiple pictures of our chips, products, and facilities in this post as well as on our website.
• The company Thin Air Ventures, LLC was formed in the US state of Delaware. (However, do not confuse us with an LLC bearing the same name as us that was created and dissolved in respectively 2001 and 2005.)
• The WHOIS information for our domain thinairventures.com (http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/results.jsp?domain=thinairventures.com) is de-anonymized and contains the contact information of one of our founders, Marc Bevand, as well as our actual office address in Lake Forest, CA, USA. (Note: no valuable hardware is stored on site - everything is in a data center).
  
• Anybody is welcome to pay us a visit at our office at 20331 Lake Forest #C7, Lake Forest, CA 92630. Please make an appointment ahead of time by mailing sales@thinairventures.com, to guarantee someone will be there to receive you at the time of your visit.

Ordering

The market has highly varying opinions on the value of ASIC miners. Therefore we decided to let the market determine the right price by launching an online auction to the highest bidder with a minimum bid starting at 15 BTC per Redhash unit (105 Ghash/sec), with minimum increments of 1 BTC. We have a limited number of units available in this auction: only 27 units. The auction starts now and runs for a few days. Auction winners will have 4 calendar days to make payment, which can be made in bitcoins, credit card, cash, cashier's check, or wire transfer. If paying in USD, we will convert your bid's BTC amount to USD according to the current coinbase.com exchange rate +/-1% that we will announce publicly the moment the auction ends. The Coinbase exchange rate is usually very close to the CoinDesk Bitcoin Price Index: http://www.coindesk.com/price

The auction takes place in the Auctions subforum, where the auction rules and payment details are explained in depth, see Auction thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303379.0).

Shipping

We ship worldwide, from southern California, USA. We will accommodate whatever shipping carrier you request at the time of payment: UPS, Fedex, US Postal Service, etc. Shipping is free (included in your bid) when using standard shipping (UPS/Fedex for destinations in the USA, and US Postal Service for worldwide destinations). If you request some sort of expedited shipping, you will be asked to pay for shipping in addition to paying your auction bid.

Alternatively, we offer local pickup (at our office in Lake Forest, CA, or at our data center in Irvine, CA). We will take 0.5 BTC off the price if you choose this option over shipping.

For international shipping, we highly recommend to ship the Redhash unit without the Power Supply Unit as its presence may cause issues at Customs during import. You should instead purchase a standard PSU on your local market (850 Watt minimum). Of course the decision is up to you, but if you choose to have the Redhash unit shipped without PSU, we will take 0.5 BTC off the price you bid.

Future plans

We want to make TAV the most trusted and well-respected ASIC miner vendor. We are working on future projects, but will not divulge any details. Do expect future announces, like this hard launch, that surprise the community :-)

https://i.imgur.com/DWlnRlT.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/CYDhFsc.png
https://i.imgur.com/PrSn3pF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/FFEMo9V.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/VJN6VqY.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/XNSSEoZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1yrlfX5.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/CBbP37x.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/mdsIcRS.jpg

Reserved.

WOW!  :o

Do you guys do hosting as alternative?

Could you provide more info regarding warranty and claims?

Those look like some incredibly nice units good work!

Very slick looking product.  Congrats!

WOW, this is epic.

Nice looking!  I've bid on a couple.

Those are some nice looking units :o

Nice!

Those modules holds only on goldpins? That's horrible idea, this units will not survive transportation.

Obviously we know. Each of the 32 hash units will be unplugged and individually wrapped in antistatic bubble wrap. This will be a very safe packaging. Even safer than the way Avalon units are shipped with heavy heatsinks screwed on thin aluminum sheets.

Interested, waiting for when it is for sale.

Oh, ok then. So it's semi DIY unit ;)

It is on sale. Now. See the auction at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303379.0

n1 work guys! But unfortunatly in regards off power usage this is still horrible

for siberia guys is ok :)

No hosting, sorry.

Warranty: what do you want to know? If, when receiving your unit you notice it is defective, we will gladly either refund you and take it back , or offer to repair it (in both situations you are responsible for shipping to us though - the reshipping to you is free).

what's its noise like? what ambient temps are safe to run them? also can you guys arrange lower declaration value?

It looks like you have done an ASIC business right!  I've bid on your current product and I'm looking forward to future product announcements!

Congratulations on a project well done. Too bad Avalon's delays have screwed you over just as badly as everyone else :(

Def congrats, and under the radar. Good luck! ;)

Nice product, I wish you luck.  Can't wait to see what your next product is.

This is the way to sell a product.. make it first.. bring it to the market

Nice, good luck with sales. Wish I had some cash to buy one but all my money was wasted on Friedcat products.

Cool. Nice job and great professional announcement. Unfortunately too expensive, IMHO.

When would these be shipping by?

Going to agree with this.

This is old Avalon tech? Is the stuff about it being way too late for old Avalon chips to ROI just FUD?

In the K16 threads everyone seems to have decided some time ago those old chips are useless/worthless now. Are they wrong?

-MarkM-

Very nicely done! I've known mrb for quite a while, and I expected no less from him.

This is how you launch an asic.

Nice work, but too bad they will never ROI at a cost more than 8BTC (yet selling for 15BTC)

+1

If you have to pay for power, these units will never make ROI in BTC. If you have free power, will just barely make a ROI on the 15 btc you pay for them. The biggest hit is the loss in when they ship and how long. That week is going to be 1/6-1/4 of the units lifetime earning probably.

Now if BTC/$ goes way up you'll be ok $$ wise but not in BTC.

assuming you got these in your hand Oct 6 the next diff jump guess.

+1

But they are beautiful.  Too bad they are 4 months late.

950W for 105GH?  Oh, well.

Well done! And congratulations on a great looking miner delivered at a fair price.

Well I have to recognize that 27 Redhash x320 chips=8640 chips paid for 675.73BTC.

mrb is selling 27@15 Redhash for a total start price of 405BTC so a 270BTC loss!

It is therefore a good price, if you want to support a company who does not take preorders, which I think is the best way to go when doing business selling asics!

In the like of burnin:


Congratulations TAV! It's all about decentralization!

LainZ.

320 chips @ 0.078 / each = 24.96 BTC.  I think condolences are in order.

Why run it in an auction format and not just fix a price for sale?   I would think you want these units sold asap.  


Question:  Are you mining with units that will be auctioned currently?

How much shipping for europe ?? Is it free?

Shipping

We ship worldwide, from southern California, USA. We will accommodate whatever shipping carrier you request at the time of payment: UPS, Fedex, US Postal Service, etc. Shipping is free (included in your bid) when using standard shipping (UPS/Fedex for destinations in the USA, and US Postal Service for worldwide destinations). If you request some sort of expedited shipping, you will be asked to pay for shipping in addition to paying your auction bid.

They offered their eligius statistics as proof that the units exist and are functional.

2,951 (GH/s) / 105 (GH/s / unit) = 28 units.

And the pictures do a pretty good job of it, too...

Nice job and miners but power use of chips too much or I might get 1 or 2.

Do you offer local pickup in Lake Forest?? If so, do you offer a discount for local pickup?

Regardless of spec major praise for bringing the product to the community the way you did.
This is refreshing!

I'm impressed by what you did. Congratulations TAV!

Really?  No, they are not, they are already taking a heavy loss, so no, they are not and should not be mining with these units.

sarcasm is strong with this one.

Yes they are mining with them.

Sorry, just can't help myself.  I usually take the stance of there is no dumb question, and I probably won't be brother if it is a newbie who doesn't know anything.  But this coming from someone who is running a Bitcoin hosting services?  Come on now!

It is a legitimate question actually.   I guess I would expect a fixed price if they were being mined with.  I personally am interested but not in an auction format. 

Noise: you definitely not want the machine to be in a living room. However you may replace the fans with quieter ones. Adjust the chip MHz clock accordingly.

Safe ambient temps: same as original Avalon units.

Declaration value: we will declare the true value of the unit.

24 hours after your payment clears. Auction ends on October 1st, so those paying quickly (eg. bitcoins) will have their units ship on October 2nd.

I have to applaud the fact you stayed away from the pre-order nonsense and have produced what looks like some pretty well designed equipment.

But... at 15BTC there is no ROI.  The break even point is about half that price.
http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/31d85cc849

Please keep up the good work.  I look forward to seeing what you come up with next.

Our customers should be able to achieve ROI (by some reasonable difficulty increase estimates and at least at the starting bid of 15 BTC), because TAV is selling these units below their manufacturing cost, even below the raw Avalon chips cost.

This is the price of doing things rights by not taking pre-orders. We take financial risks, so that our customers don't have to.

Actually this estimate is incorrect. If you look carefully, the first mining month is estimated as having a diff of 293 million(!) Our units will start shipping on October 2nd, when we will still obviously be at the current difficulty 149 million.

This is a big flaw of the mining.thegenesisblock.com calculator... The granularity of 1-month in its table of numbers is too coarse to accurately predict the revenue of a miner shipping in the next few days because there is a big difference between a miner shipping on October 1st vs October 30th, but in both cases mining.thegenesisblock.com will show the same revenue!

So to work around this flaw, you have to fudge with the "current difficulty" so that the October 2013 starting mining difficulty starts at 149 million, in which case you see that at 15 BTC our miners are clearly profitable even assuming a 100% month-over-month difficulty increase: http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/db4d60faba

Tru dat!

+1000000

Can't wait to see your next product.

+lots.  People really use TGB calulator wrong.  Besides these units are so cool looking, and ACTUALLY IN STOCK, who cares about ROI?

Another calculator gives break-even near Christmas (http://btcinvest.net/en/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?dcosts=0&diff_mincrease=30&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=105000&diff_mincreasedecrease=3&dpowcon=940&btcusd_mincrease=1&pcost=0.085&calcweeks=52&dleadtime=0&action=calc).  This is the calculator that I use, but I don't have any smart way to decide what parameters I believe.

I simply can't applaud this too much. Other manufacturers, take note.

The only bad thing in this is that you guys have to take a heavy loss because of Yifu's idiocy.

Which exchange do you use to calculate BTC to FIAT for CC payments?

I have very much respect for you not only saying this- but applying it in practice.

Coinbase (as explained in auction thread), which is close to the CoinDesk Bitcoin Price Index: http://www.coindesk.com/price/

Congrats team!

Looks like the whole community is pulling for you guys.

I love darkhorse entries!

just in case - http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/b7b7cc5339
welcome to earth!
No break-even in first year!
 ;D

PS Who the hell switch to september? today is 27/09/2013 not 01/09/2013 or 30/08/2013  ;)

Congrats to mrb and his team!  This one is a big step for the mining community and I hope other vendors follow suit.

P.S. For what it's worth, I've met mrb in person and vouch for his statements.  

I paid $4500 for a metal detector 4 years ago... fucking thing still hasn't given me ROI!

Humph.  I only paid 1/2 as much for mine, but, it hasn't either.

Again, this TGB analysis is wrong: it shows a starting difficulty of 298M, but TAV will start shipping on October 2, when the difficulty will be the same as today (149M).

See also: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303376.msg3249572#msg3249572

I'll admit that nobody can predict the future, but you're asking us to risk 15BTC in order to earn 3BTC.

The Genesis Block Calculator might not be perfect, but I think it has become the de facto standard for ASIC earning potential.

That being said, your product is very impressive and I'm looking forward to the next batch.

(Replying in correct thread).
(I replied to realestone privately, but I figured I can do it here too).

- Yes, we include a Corsair TX850M PSU with each Redhash.
- % HW error rate: most machines are between 0.5 and 2.5%. A few are above that and we are in the process of identifying the few bad hash units.
- We chose 328 MHz merely because it leads to a nice round 105 Ghash/sec number, while leaving some margin. Our redhash units should in theory be just as overclockable as the original Avalon (I personally tried 350 MHz on a few machines), but obviously TAV cannot make this guarantee. Besides, our 850W PSU was measured to be at 97-98% load when running at 350MHz. Higher o/c would definitely require a change of PSU.
- Yes we are using WR703Ns, however we do not have an wifi antenna connector.
- The WR703N runs the exact same firmware image as original Avalons.

I mean to Wesly, not realestone.

Well, that's +20% on your investment, pretty good by regular standards, and in this pessimistic scenario of 100% month over month (= 30% diff increase per 2016 blocks) our profitability still beats ALL asic vendors except HashFast:

http://decentralizedhashing.com/bitcoin-mining-equipment-table/

The question is: do you take the risk of an unproven HashFast preorder, or do you prefer an in-stock, already tested Redhash miner? :-)

Good question,  we have not decided yet. I will answer a bit later.

I'll certainly bid on one, just to support you guys.  Hope to pick up some of your next gen gear in the near future, too...

Just imagine how different the manufacturing landscape might be today if the Avalon chips hadn't disappeared for 6 weeks.

You guys are doing the right thing, even if you do end up taking a hit on the chin pricewise.  You've bought yourselves something very sorely lacking in the Bitcoin ASIC world - credibility.  The first new ASIC manufacturer with a major product to NOT take pre-orders and actually ship something from stock.   You out-engineered Avalon with their own chips....

(I'm not counting Friedcat's block erupters as a major product here.)

I bid on one really just to show support for your honest, no-preorder business model. 

great work guys, this is what the mining community needs.

Wow - even landed kudos from "the man" himself...

Why is this such a shocker, this what we wanted in the first place, and been our message since day one.
to be fair though, except reality of making few thousand units is a lot harder than making 30, I hope you guys can scale properly.

hey stupid, please don't give any advice about scaling to anybody else in this world. thanks.

You did a good thing here with the congrats YiFu.  Let's hope people recognize this for what it is, and let water flow under the bridge. Looking forward to (possibly) gen-2 chips in another three weeks or so.   Hopefully you will put these guys on the list for early samples...

They (Redhash team) sure would like to say a few words to "the man", which are not fit for public communication.

Really?  That's what the community needs?  They are bleeding red.  Probably why the painted the cases red.  The chips alone cost them more then what they will sell these for.

And you feel a need to complain and be negative about this when the manufacturers themselves are being very positive?

You know what really bugs me about TAV?

No LOGO!! A company this cool needs a freakin LOGO!!

It's classless to comment that way.  Say congrats and stfu.  If not for people like these manufacturers no one would even buy avalons chips.

Can you tell us what level of USPS service international you are included with purchase?

If it is anything like what BFL are using I would not appreciate it and would not appreciate waiting weeks for my shipment and go through 2 difficulty shift up while waiting.

Thanks guys

Yes, so I don't understand why you do it.

Honestly & with respect ...why dont u fuck off scum bag !!!

Because Avalon has clearly sacrificed thier customers(ie the manufacterures) by promising a product would be available, obtaining large sums of money upfront then delivering late when ROI has caused real market value of the product fall short of the investment placed by the manufacturer, making their(the manufacturers') business venture a net loss, while Avalion has already made there profits, respectively. thats why its a big deal.

I'm quite aware of what Avalon did, I had lots invested in all the startups - Terrahash, LSD, AlphaHPC, Bitburners, and Klondikes from BKKCoins - about $25k worth overall, so you don't need to try to tell me how badly people got screwed.  My checkbook is quite aware...

My question was - why is someone complaining about this company bleeding red ink and going on about how badly they got screwed, when they themselves are not?  They're attempting to make the best out of a screw over, why do people feel it necessary to bring all the negativity into this very positive thing they are trying to do?

Multiple bright yellow ignore buttons posting here - I think I'll take the suggestion and push them myself...

change your tampon while you're at it you contrarian douche. yeah thats right you're a contrarian douche. how do i know? because all contrarian douches parade around the forum acting like world class morons threatening others with ignore buttons because of differences in opinions.

+1

Congrats on a job well done, I hope the auction delivers some strong bidding, you deserve it.

:)

Well, I'm impressed. This is the way to execute, not what BFL and Avalon did.

I hope other people will take notice on how to do things. Yes, they took a risk, and will not make as much as they hoped they would.

Welcome to having balls in the real world.

great work !


Can TAV host there (if so how much per month ?)

Thanks. I really hope that with Avalon gen2 chips, you guys will fix your distribution channel issues, and will improve your communication.

Unfortunately, we do not provide hosting services.

I'm biased but you can contact bobsag3, whom I represent & am having 2.8 - 3.6TH/s hosted at his pro colocation site in a month for only 2.75%.

That's a serious introductory offer right there IMO and the lowest hosting prices anywhere at the moment, AFAIK.  ;D

See this, ladies and gentlemen? This is class. TAV would probably have made a serious profit on this business model if Avalon had not dropped the ball. Yet Mrb is simply gracious, even after the fact.

Yifu, since you are watching this thread, I would hope you take note of that. There are still gentelmen i the business. I very much hope you can work out Bitsyncom's issues, as I would like to do business with THIS vendor.

That being said, Mrb, are you looking into other ASIC's, or staying put with Avalon? (An no, I won't be angry if you fail to satisfy my curiosity.)

Hopefully this little loss leader will give you the credibility to obtain proper funding (if you haven't already) for your next offering. And also hopefully I'll have the money on hand next time. You did catch me by surprise :)

-Kevin Biomech

Wow Just wow!

The community's response to TAV has been outstanding so far. Thanks to all. If you would like to express your support for us, spread the word about us, add something like this to your bitcointalk signature:


However we will not bribe people to add this code to their signature. We would prefer this support to be honest, not motivated by making a quick buck.

We were going to bid for a forum ad slot, but auction round 97 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294878.0) ended before we could make it.

Wow, Yifu, you are a real piece of work you know that?  Time to get off your high horse and stop pretending like you are the saint of bitcoin that you think you are, but you are so not.  I can't believe I am saying this... but I actually respect Josh more than you.  At least he is the "No BS" kind of guy, he is a jerk and he knows it and proud of it.  And he doesn't care people know it and attack him, he fights back like 'the man'.  But you?  Contrary to your term of sales, you are so full of BS.

If you really care about the mining community needs, you will either disappear in the dark hole you like to hide in for weeks while you are screwing people over and don't have the guts to face your customers with honest answers; or you should reimburse or compensate companies like TAV and B3 customers who has lost money because they believe in you and your many broken promises.  You don't get to crawl out of that hole only when you have favorable news to report, or when companies like TAV, despite your massive screw-up, somehow manage to succeed in creating this beautiful miner.  They don't need your empty congrats and really why are you here and back after not participating for 18 days?  Oh right to promote Avalon 1-year old and look we also have some more leftover miners to sells and of course Gen2 is coming.  Hey look at me!  I am the man!

Yes,the mining community needs HONEST,NONLYING buissness's.....which you Y I FU are not  >:(

mrb,great job!!!!!! If you build any miners based on anyone eles's chips,I will buy some.............just not Avalon's or BFL's  ;)

congrats on your business model ! this is what we want, IN STOCK !

*fixed*

http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/75a2d29326

So the answer is yes: 0.5 BTC will be taken off the price, for those who will choose local pickup.

in stock but very limited. 27 is very low and in auction.

if you want buy one now impossible...

sweet machines! they look very sexy...also like the fact that shipping is free  8)

It is possible :)
At this very moment you only need to bid 17 BTC to get high enough on the bidding list. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303379.msg3253432#msg3253432)

It is a shocker to be such a hypocrite because mrb lost money on this because YOU failed to deliver your chips as promissed.

ONE MILLION TIMES THIS.

Finally "ASIC business done right"

mrb got me started with my first 5970's and ax1200 psu's

He is what we need more in crypto :D

Mrb
Will you provide an Inovice within the package?
Can something be done about it eg lower value? Some buyers in EU are interessed but that VAT will kill us  ;)
Further, can we get the unit without power supply with a disscount? PSU can pose some difficulty with customs.

YipYip: glad I got you started :)


Yes we provide an invoice.

We can't lower the declared value though. We have to operate by the rules, given the type of company we want to become. If you want to avoid VAT, there are various legal ways depending on your country: buying on behalf of a company with a VAT registration number, etc.

Yes you can get the unit without PSU. Just ask for it when emailing sales@thinairventures.com to arrange payment after the auction has ended. We will reduce your total by approximately 0.5-0.8 BTC (to be determined - I will update the post as soon as decided).

Wow the airflow / cooling could be optimized to a much higher degree. Do you have any cooling problems with these units?

Actually, while I love their design and the changes they made (very interesting)....

I am pretty sure what they are doing is selling off Avalon (modded) clones that they no longer want. I haven't yet read past the first page but that is what it looks like to me.

1) They had a mining farm.
2) They seem to be liquidating the mining farm for BTC. @ 15 BTC per machine

While not a terrible deal, the units are just about to become unprofitable.

So the question that pops into my mind is not how "do I buy it" (through their auction).

But...are there any plans to insert some Gen2 chips into their modded version and ship it to customers?

If they are indeed liquidating a farm, then they should be upfront about it. (Meaning these are all used)

Yes.


No.

Our fans, Delta AFB1212SHE-4F1A, are 152 CFM each(!). This provides a lot more airflow than necessary. Our heatsinks are also over-designed. Next version, if any, would be smaller.

We are not "liquidating a farm". I thought this was obvious we are selling brand new hardware. We took delivery of our chips literally last week. We went from 0 to 3 terrahash/sec in 48 hours: http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1NkkkghQHFNs8H1hAmKDM9fJo4mBkoHeej All the hardware is being merely stress-tested 72-96 hours in a temporary datacenter which would be a terrible place to run a farm anyway (expensive as hell :D)


In theory, yes, 2nd-generation chips ("100% backward compatible" per Yifu) should be drop-in replacement, making an upgrade a breeze!

Not possible ! Remember "TAV ordered 10,000 Avalon chips on April 21, 2013", which is late, check zefir's history, it's after batch #3...:

Do you ship international? I am in Vietnam and I want use FedEx International Economy or Priority.

had to bump my question.

Yes we ship worldwide. If FedEx International Economy from US to Vietnam is roughly the same price as the less expensive air delivery option for us, then shipping is free (included in your bid). If not, we would ask you to pay the difference. Email sales@thinairventures.com to get an exact quote.

@Mr B

Any comments on this? Any plans to buy up a batch of gen 2 in the next week?

If these chips (gen 2) proves to be "market ready" and viable...can I place an order for a gen 2 unit? How quickly can you guys turn gen 2 chips into a fully working unit? What price point would you be looking at? (considering only the chips are changing)

We default to Priority Mail Express International, which is included in your bid price.
If you have a specific carrier in mind, we may be able to accommodate your needs. Give us your details (country, zip) at sales@thinairventures.com and we will figure out a quote for you.

By policy, TAV will not pre-announce time-to-market or pricing information of Avalon gen2 products, even if the information was fully available to us.

TAV wants to only disclose and sell products which are available for immediate shipping.

Kudos mrb.

Perhaps Yifu should bid on your hardware, it's the least he can do for causing your losses....

How about it yifu?  Bid on the miners and donate them...show that you truly support the people who are executing on your ideal of decentralizing the network...

I don't like the auction format. do you have any plans to go to a regular pricing model after your auctions give you a ballpark figure as to what people will pay? :P

MrB why does your company not have a cool logo ?

BID  is not buy it now

if i want buy it s not in 3 or 4 days but now and end 2 october + time to ship + time to receive = minimun 10 october = new difficulty = alot of time and money lost.

au

You sir, are a genius.

How does the software side of the unit work? Is it compatible with the current builds of CGminer and BFGminer? Does it have a web interface similar to a blade? If it has its own built in software, does that software support stratum?

If I want to put a heftier power supply in mine, how hard is the swap?

Do these units come with a warranty? How long. Found that answer

How hard is it to up the chip frequency to 350Mhz as stated in an earlier post?

Are there any diagnostics available to the user as the machine is running?

Is the firmware user upgradable? If so, how long do you plan to continue to support the unit with firmware updates?

This is avalon clone.

Trongersoll: eventually, as we learn and measure market demand, we will move away from auctions and do fixed-price sales.

bitterdog: we have our hands full of technical and logistics work, and simply did not have time to design a logo. Feel free to submit your ideas :)

ste0024: if you want to buy one now, negotiations are always possible. If you came to us today and offered an amount significantly higher than the highest bids so far (maybe 25 BTC or higher?), we would certainly sell and ship a unit right away.

elaramus: as Avalon clones, our units run the exact same firmware as Avalon.

As opposed to your preorder garbage, delays, lies and arrogance?

Seriously, you still dare show your face out here, you lying cheating piece of shit? For real.

He's CHI have regenerated...

He is alive now! :D

you can found for 20BTC here

http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/e7357daee7

Looks like it could still make money if I had it at this moment, but if it comes in a month:

http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/70a02e7cdd

Not nearly as exciting.  If the power usage was lower than ~10W/GH it would last a lot longer...

What the fuck do you know about what the community needs??

You mean we need companies that can survive being treated like garbage by their suppliers??

Ask Terrahash what they need. Another company you were responsible for destroying.

As long as they ignore your advice they will be fine.

reserved

fucking liars have no position to talk about "community". you have me lose at least one thousand bitcoin.

props for not doing that pre-order rubbish, thats all i have to say, this should be a moment positive reinforcement from the community...maybe it is the auction tension getting to everyone  :D :D :D :D

Nah, the thread was doing fine until YiFuck decided to show up with his false congratulations. Did he really expect people would lick his boots after all that he has done? What an arrogant asshole.

It'll be hard to shake that reputation, YiFuck...

This doesnt compute. No one so far has ever launched a bitcoin miner without taking preorders months in advance based on guessed specifications. Tested products in stock at launch? Impossible, has to be a scam :)

On a more serious note, congrats guys. Awesome looking product. I love the company name too :).

Yeah, Seriously!!  WELL DONE GUYS!!

Stellar work with awful circumstances!

even though they're almost 'redundant', id love to take one just for the wow factor... except i kinda 'need' wifi.

I'd love to see what you could do with some better chips, perhaps refurbing ALL scamalons rigs at some point.

Congratulations & Best Of Luck, Fellas!!

Simply awesome.

I hope you don't get smeared by a taxi while crossing the street.

Why did YiFuck cross the street?
-Because he wanted to screw the miners on that side too!

 :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

I am a total Avalon fan, so while I can't say I am happy about alot of people getting screwed on their chip orders. I hope Yifu finds a way to turn it around and make a recovery for the company.

I hope their 55nm parts can be competitive enough that they won't have to worry about the 28nm parts coming out soon.

Lets hope alot of the open manufacturers pick up the Avalon line after the chip debacle.

I'll be OK with Avalon about the time they send me a check to cover the 250 BTC or so I ended being screwed out of due to deliberately delayed chips. 

But I really wish TAV the best of luck.  Packaged inside a TAV product is about as close as I'd want to get to anything BitSynCom related from here on out.

1) You can't buy them for 15BTC right now. 19BTC is a little less optimistic.

2) You have the Initial Mining Date as September '13. You change that to October '13 (cuz Sept is basically over), and all the numbers go red. As in no profit. Am I looking at this wrong?

When you set the date to October, TGB shows an initial difficulty of over 298 million which is completely wrong. Our miners start shipping 3 days from now when the difficulty will still be 149 million. This is a big flaw of TGB due to its coarse 1-month granularity. I explained it here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303376.msg3249572#msg3249572

Another dramatic way of observing the flaw is this: TGB with October as initial date will suddenly start showing profits if you use the calculator on October 1st (because the initial mining date will fall in a month the same as the current day).

What are you talking about? They did fuck up.

They just didn't fuck up nearly as bad as BFL. ('BFL Fuck'ed is a different league of it's own.)

=============================

Personally, I think you are stupid and can't do math if you bought chips with a 100-day delay. Doing a little bit of math would have told you that profitability was iffy.

The same applies to BFL chips which were priced the same per GH/s. Why do you think no one is jumping for joy now that BFL is shipping (on time) for once in it's short lived life? (Some folks are busy hawking their BFL chips to open manufactures as we speak to get rid of them.)

People like you and Batch 3 customers must have known the immense risk of buying hardware at too high a price with a very long lead time. If you didn't then you just had terrible luck. (though I think it was the incapacity to do math)

==============================

Even back then I let people know [rather openly] it was a terrible price point and wasn't willing to go and buy it myself (@ that price). (either the chips or the hardware of batch 3 at the newer price point)

I hate to see people get fucked (honestly, I do) but in your case, I don't really mind. You did deserve to lose your BTC/Cash after you gambled the way you did.

==============================

In either case, you have given Yifu (or someone else) a tremendous investment which people like me hedged would push them forward into the future. Apparently they are taking that investment and going forward with a slew of designs from gen 2 to 4.

So if you still have enough money/BTC to continue, then I hope to see you in the next gen. If not, then thank you for securing the network with your Avalon purchase.

Word to the wise,

Liquidate your chips if you still have them. (If you can't find any Open Manufacturers who are willing to assemble the boards and chips into a productive miner.)

Take a hit, then reset your game plan on whatever is next. Do it now, before everyone starts liquidating gen 1 hardware and it's derivatives.

A ton of BFL hardware that no one wants is about to flood Ebay, BitMit and BitCoinTalk. So you might want to sell now before the prices are driven into the ground. At that point (if you still desire it) you can rebuy hardware no one wants at below their sale price as people compete to get it off their hands.

I think you meant "without being racist", rather than "without sounding racist".

By auctioning these off to the highest ("stupidest") bidder, we get a good look at what those miners think this is worth; its an interesting experiment, and one that will yield TAV the highest possible revenue. I dont believe miners will profit from these, unless they have free electricity and most 28nm asics are significantly delayed, but at least this is much fairer than selling untold amounts of preorders with unknown future delivery date.

Just one question; your photo's show 60+ machines, current auction lists 27; how many do you intend to auction off over the coming weeks/months?

Well, not all machines can be sold. Some were never filled in with chips/hash units due to Bitsyncom's delays. Some are stock held for warranty claims. Some have non-working parts.

With that said, I cannot comment on our future plans. Surprises :)

Do you guarantee certain performance on a per hashboard basis or per backplane connection?

Error %?
Hashpower ?
Possibly at a default frequency? (It appears they are clocked at 328?)

That is, are all your machines clocked at 105 gh/sec or are there a number in the high 80's low 90's range?  Therefore, not all machines are running 105 gh/sec but that is clearly a peak.


On the server picture it appears you have 62 red cases.  Eligius indicates 31(+ partial unit{s}?) miners running.

31*8*4*10= about 10k chips.  Are 31 of the cases empty cases in that photo?  You've indicated an order of only 10,000 chips.  If so - why?  Was there a 10k chip order that was refunded and you have an interest in G2 Avalon chips?  If so, what information do you have!

Curious :P

Also, grats.

Same question was posed and answered just one post up. And judging by the answer,  I wouldnt be surprised if the empty cases will soon be filled with bitfury's.

It's a similar statement, but not the same - there's no question mark so it can't be a question.  Also, no questions posed by me ask about the future only the past and the present - though the last one might be classified as a fishing expedition  ::).

We'll be at (or about-to-be-at) 200 million when they arrive a couple of days later though, and you had to fiddle the electricty rate down to show it getting an ROI :p

It also incorrectly assumes the difficulty will remain constant for a whole month - which it never will - so (putting aside the %age growth will eventually slow down argument) generally it paints a far-too-optimistic picture !

Sadly though with the power consumption, even though it's a great design and engineering feat, and major kudos for actually having a product rather than pre-ordered vapourware, anything over 8BTC is unlikely to ever break even for the majority of potential clients.

Very nice job,

I am wrong or "in hand" is the most competitive price per GH and power consumption?

We can't compare this with other units that in fact don't exist.

Today in hand I see the ASICminer blades and this unit... and this one is by far a best investment.

TMC

good job guys....  quit hating on people that have something inhand to sell today....  105ghs this week is better than 1TH/s that hasnt been prototyped and is months away in a best case scenario....

I'd have to agree. At the next difficulty change 15 BTC will just be too high.

It's not hating, it's math. I don't think anyone has any hate for TAV (a miracle by itself).

The problem is that the difficulty is correcting at such a sharp rate over such a brief period of time that you have to buy it at a price that is worthwhile in a realistic sense.

The returns get squeezed faster than someone slamming on the brakes.

i hereby and solemnly declare +1

Update:

For international shipping, we highly recommend to ship the Redhash unit without the Power Supply Unit as its presence may cause issues at Customs during import. You should instead purchase a standard PSU on your local market (850 Watt minimum). Of course the decision is up to you, but if you choose to have the Redhash unit shipped without PSU, we will take 0.5 BTC off the price you bid.

AdamKD: we guarantee all redhash units achieve 105 Ghash/sec +/- 5%.

astutiumRob: diff will be 149M at least for domestic customers (which we expect to be the majority of our customer base.) Next diff is estimated to be only 180M per allchains.info, very far from the 298M people were quoting. Also the average worldwide electricity price is $0.10/kWh. It makes sense to pick this one as the default. And again we expect our auction to naturally attract those with lower than average rates.

Don't even try to defend the ROI. It's just not there. These will not break even at the current bid prices unless you have nearly free power.

http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/cf8f2331e7

Then don't bid.

There are problems with the genesisblock calculator in terms of granularity.  Either other people feel they're worth it, or they're paying more than they expect to get.  In any case, all mrb is doing is running the auction and providing information on the hardware.

No, he's also trying to justify the ROI on them. That's where he's going too far.

That's only true if you go back in time and start mining Sept. 1.  If you start on Oct. 1 they are only profitable by 0.05 BTC with 55% diff increase and 100% increase is just bad.

Edit:  I miscalculated the 55%, they are profitable if it is only 55%.  But I don't believe 55% will be what we see.

No he's not. His defense is valid. Maybe incorrect, but we don't know that.

He ain't holding a gun to any of the people bidding. They are or are not doing their own due diligence. Clearly, they believe it worth the price, or they wouldn't bid on it.

Holy shit. Fuck this loudmouth piece of shit, SOOOOO much.

Listen up, you feckless waste of oxygen, their problem is not scalability, their problem is vendors whose "no bullshit" contracts are all bullshit.

I hope Avalon goes bankrupt, and these guys find a reliable vendor that isn't run by a smug self-assuming asshole like yourself. Of all of the people who ought to shut the fuck up about best business practices, you're pretty much top of the list.

"Scale properly" indeed...  ::)

Please realize you make an incorrect statement out of literal rounding errors.

Demonstration: change your analysis' power cost to $0.085/kWh (still very close to the worldwide's average, 15% below it, hardly what I would call "nearly free power"), and change the monthly difficulty increase from 100% to 95% (just to demonstrate you are playing with rounding errors) and ROI is achieved in Jan 2014: http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/5ce6d144b8

Therefore you cannot claim "ROI is just not there", just as one cannot claim "insanely great profits are there" (with a 19 BTC price and ~100% monthly diff increases). Which is why I am taking the middle-ground position of "ROI will approximately be achieved (either slight losses or slight profits) in this hypothetical scenario".

Also, as others pointed out, I am not claiming a ROI in all scenarios. Fundamentally, neither I, nor you, know future monthly diff increases:
- They could be 50% in which case great profits will be made.
- They could be 100% in which case ROI will approximately be achieved.
- They could be 150% in which case losses will happen.

I'm on your side on this, but since you are correcting technical errors, I am too.

To put this in some perspective, the study of economics is my hobby. Particularly the Austrian school, but in this case we're talking general accounting. I've made this point several times, and been called a troll for it. I'm not trolling, I'm genuinely irritated by the misuse of a well understood accounting term.

There are three ways that a hypothetical buyer would not make ROI on this.

1. The unit is DOA (which you have contingencies in place for.)
2. The buyer puts it in their trophy collection and never mines with it.
3. The buyer doesn't use it, gets a refund, and goes on their merry way.

ROI stands for Return ON Investment. Not Return OF Investment. If it mines at all, you make a ROI. This is not an ambiguity or a hedge, this is what the term means. ROI is a moving target. Now if you, or the hypothetical buyer, says "it will not make ROI in X timeframe, they MIGHT have an argument, based solely on the above three conditions. What the majority of the people on this forum MEAN, seems to be breakeven, which is an entirely different subject. This isn't picking nits, this is what the term means.

ROI can be positive, negative, or breakeven, but if it makes you one satoshi, you have achieved ROI.

I find this misuse egregious for the same reason I find the religious argument "it's just a theory" to be egregious. At least in that case, there are two different meanings to the term. In the case of ROI, there is not.

"a return" in this context is synonymous to benefit and to me at least, without qualification implies a non negative, non zero value. The context makes it quite clear and Im perfectly fine if people leave out unneeded words.

Compare it to discount. In theory a discount can also be zero or even negative, but when someone says they get a discount, a positive number is assumed.

Noted. And were this a common usage, I might even agree. But ROI is a very specific term from accounting, not a general usage term. Having now been on this forum for some time, I do understand what people mean. When I first came here, seeing this made my mind twitch. Took me a while to understand that people were not ACTUALLY referring to ROI, but to breakeven.

Not that it really improved matters, because they were getting their panties in a bunch over not meeting breakeven in a two to three week period. (that wasn't aimed at you, Puppet, you've been pretty reasonable even when you were clearly raving mad :) ).

Breaking even means $100 spent --> $200 returned on the investment....

Correct? (not sure what breaking even means, as some people like to use the term to mean they made back what they actually spent...I have heard so many uses of this that it boggles the mind)

Edit: I am not an accountant (thank God) but some folks use ROI to mean "a return on an investment" (literal).

Meaning if you spent $100 then $100.05 is considered "a ROI" (Return on Investment).

=================================

While some, like Inaba, when he has been smoking the PR dong seem to think that even a negative ROI ($89.99) is also a ROI. Though most people would call that "A LOSS" in an investment.

I think most are using ROI in the best sense where you spent/invested $100, got back the invested money, plus got $100 extra.

=================================
Edit 2: And before anyone mentions it....

There are some who consider anything beyond the initial investment being returned as "A ROI". People like Inaba like to use 6+ figure examples for scenarios where someone is only investing a few thousand. No one (in my mind) honestly invests <10,000 expecting a measly 3% return.

People who do those kinds of investments usually put up alot larger sums so that the risk vs payoff is pretty good. (Life savings...not your "bitcoin sized" order...)

Well, I'm no accountant, professional economist, tax official, maths genius or rocket scientist and I don't have any real axe to grind about what is the *right* answer to that question but from the way I understand it in the context of bitcoins and the way that it looks like most people understand it on this forum 'breaking even' would be spending $100 on mining equipment and that equipment delivering $100 in BTC. If it delivered more than $100 it would be a 'profit' and less than $100 would be a 'loss'.

That's the basic answer to the question that you asked.

However, I have to concur with Biomech that in investment terms, ROI does normally mean 'Return On Investment' so if someone says they made 25% ROI on their investment of $100, I'd think that they made a $25 return by exposing their $100 to some type of speculative risk. If the conversation then turns to the $100 invested, then 'preservation of capital' or 'return of principal' is the subject being discussed, not 'return on investment'.

But hey, when in Rome, do as the Romans and most of the folks here seem to infer that ROI in a mining context is what I know as 'return of principal' and a 'return on investment', that is, spend $100 on a miner, make back $100+ in BTC, that's what people here seem to call "making ROI".

Anyway... hope this helps and feel free to differ, there's over seven billion people on the planet, plenty of room for variance ;)



-----



Heard near the water cooler:


"Hey man, why do you mine? Are you making any money?"
"Well..."
"Have you made ROI yet?"
"I haven't made ROI yet but so far I've made about $100 worth of bitcoins..."
"Ok, nice, going well, that's cool, eh?"
"Yeah, I love the blinking leds on the usb sticks, it's wicked when they all flash at the same time after all the random flashes..."
"Yeah man, same here, sweet light show at night, killer dude..."



:)

We need a new shorthand for "bitcoin denominated positive return on investment".
How about,

BPI

Or

!BFL

?

I agree with Biomech. Breakeven, not ROI, is the right term.

You've got my vote for !BFL

Spending $100 and making back that $100 would be breaking even, with a net gain of $0.  People here use ROI too liberally as you say.  Usually one would specify the actual ROI as a percentage.  If you spend $100 and get $110 with a net gain of $10 then you would have an ROI of 10%.  In the bitcoin world people are ecstatic to get an ROI that's not negative.

+1 for !BFL

Exactly, nice analogy. People get too stuck in terms they're so used to that they can't accept it when other people use a term in a different way even though it actually makes perfect sense if you think about it. A negative ROI is a theoretical construct, it's like saying you have money when it shows -$100,00 on your bankaccount balance. I'm sure accountants work with negative ROI all day and it's all normal, but to me and others a 'Return' on an investment implies actually making a profit from it. A negative ROI would basically mean it has become a LOI now (a 'Loss' on Investment). Who is to say this usage is wrong? Just because some accountants/traders can't stand it when people use a term differently or less broadly than they do they get to decide it's wrong? Well that's just too bad, the world doesn't revolve around them. A return to me implies a profit and therefore making ROI means turning an investment into a profit. The same reason I would only say I have money on the bank when my bank account shows a positive balance.

+1 this.  Not to mention peoples use of watts versus joules, or other similar examples of common usage differing from engineering or financial jargon. 

When you make up meanings to words, people misunderstand you, and even mistrust you.  Some will even accuse you of deception.  This drama takes a lot of energy.

It also takes energy to do a little homework and use the correct language.  But that energy is much less, and you and the surrounding community can be taken seriously by others.

I would like others, such as the utility company and grocer in town, to take bitcoin seriously.

Please take the time to use language correctly.

How about BTCROI?  And it means that you've earned back your initial investment.

Or we could all simply accept the fact that the majority here will continue to use ROI as meaning that they've earned back their initial investment.   ;D

How about +ROI for ROI > 0

Is it correct that the NIC is wired Ethernet only, with no wireless capabilities in this hardware ?

Yes. Our TP-LINK WR703N boards have not been modified to have an external wifi antenna (plus we did not add an antenna hole to our chassis).

Only a few more minutes!
05:00 UTC is the official end, but remember, the auction time is extended one minute at a time until there are no bids placed for more than 1 minute.

I just wanted to express my gratitude for a VERY PROFESSIONAL auction.

Your script was perfect for keeping everyone up to date with the latest.

Thanks!

I just got home from a job interview and I'm too frazzled to find the wiki link, but their article goes pretty in depth. However, your first example their would be actually 100 percent positive ROI, given no other costs. Breakeven is actually when the cost of the equipment and any associated operating costs are completely recovered. If you spent 100 and got back 25 in a given time frame, your ROI would be -75. ROI doesn't equal profit, though profit can be part of your ROI.

It can get pretty complex. It seems that almost everyone here uses it in place of breakeven. I admit, it's grammar policing, but it gets to me. I am not an accountant by trade, but as a restaurant manager I had to learn the trade pretty severely. I couldn't test out as a CPA, but I could probably challenge over 80 percent of the curriculum between my work experience and my deep and abiding interest in the dismal science :)

And I'll shut up about it for now in this thread. Didn't mean to hijack it. My congrats to the TAV team, and the best of success to your future endeavors. This now makes three asic vendors I'm willing to do business with when I have the ability to do so.

Ok, I know I said I'd shut up, but...

This. It's actually correct. and -ROI for negative ROI.

Y'know, I'll revisit this in a few days when I have more time and write up an article about it. The usage matters, it's not merely semantic. But I've been up for a long LONG time right now, and I'm not sure it wouldn't come out in Klingon or something :P

That's like a postmodernist view of science - "hey dude, if you believe it, it's fine, there are no absolutes!".

It's not just accountants and traders; if you ever run a business, or even get slightly involved in the running of one, you'd better know what ROI really means otherwise it's all going to end in tears... (It's no coincidence that mrb, who is certainly running a business here, knows precisely what ROI means).

1) Setup guide for these guys somewhere ?
2) How high have you stably run these on a Corsair AX1200 ?
3) Worth it to attach two more fans to pull hot air out of the unit, on top of your presumably configured 3 push fans ?

the english language is constantly changing and evolving all the time. When the usage of certain sayings or phrases becomes wide spread, that lexicon is integrated into the language and accepted as norm, whether it is grammatically correct or not. This is why we do not speak Yinglish the same the way they did a 100 years ago.  :P

True. But this is a technical term, being used in the correct context incorrectly. A bit different from street slang, dontcha know?

lol

Optimator: thanks! 110 lines of Python :)


1) A quick setup guide will be included with the redhash unit.
2) We have not tried mining with an AX1200. Like all vendors, TAV does not (cannot) officially support or recommend overclocking.
3) No. Adding the 2 fans would increase air velocity, but would decrease interior air pressure, which would reduce cooling to the PSU, which would potentially reduce its operating life.

No.  And no one cares.  In Bitcoin mining terms, ROI has become a bit of technical jargon that happens to take on a different meaning than the one used in fiat currency accounting terms.  Just like no one pronounces Gigahash as "jig-a-hash" - no matter how many times you try to say otherwise, everyone will continue to use ROI in Bitcoin mining jargon terms (where it means a positive return - past the initial cost - of a piece of mining gear)  and not fiat accounting terms....

Theoretically without representing your future plans...

if you were to build Avalon Gen2 modules would they be plug and play with the current back planes?

 

What a bummer: for the few of you who are not in the USA and who desire to use our standard shipping included in the bid, we found out that USPS Priority Mail Express International is not available (to all/some countries?) given the 19 kg weight of one packaged unit.

We are in contact with you guys to work out solutions.

http://s13.postimg.org/mlgsq42f7/2013_10_02_164517.pnghttp://s8.postimg.org/6m6893435/2013_10_02_165017.png

You can manipulate the two bars above to get an idea of what TAV expects people to make back from their purchase.

Blue is your investment monies (if you expect to get at least that much back from buying a TAV unit.
Red is your profit monies (if you expect to get any profit back just resize the width.)

A blue and red bar of equal lengths of 300 pixels equals a full recovery of investment funds and an equal amount of profit.

$100 goes into hardware, $200 are made back by said hardware. (a 100% ROI)

http://s13.postimg.org/mlgsq42f7/2013_10_02_164517.pnghttp://s8.postimg.org/6m6893435/2013_10_02_165017.png <== Reference Bar

http://s13.postimg.org/mlgsq42f7/2013_10_02_164517.pnghttp://s8.postimg.org/6m6893435/2013_10_02_165017.pnghttp://s7.postimg.org/fb3cc3cvr/2013_10_02_170622.png

This is my idea of what a TAV unit will bring back if it is delivered promptly and if it is sold for 15btc. (just off the top of my head)

By the next two difficulty changes I expect it to look something like this:

http://s13.postimg.org/mlgsq42f7/2013_10_02_164517.pnghttp://s8.postimg.org/6m6893435/2013_10_02_165017.pnghttp://s7.postimg.org/fb3cc3cvr/2013_10_02_170622.png

My bar is brown colored. It doesn't give a shit.

Hey PL, as much as I appreciate and are entertained by your posts in all BFL bashing threads..with that said
No one gives a rats ass about your TAV purchase opinions. So much so that everything was sold well above 15btc and there are dozens of bidders who are sorry they lost or missed the bidding.

For you at least move on there is nothing of interest for you here.

See you on the BFL threads  ;)

I seriously considered a higher bid, just because of the awsome look and engineering that went into these - these were a labor of love.

ROI?  Wasn't bidding with that in mind.

I am pretty sure that there are alot of people who aren't interested in getting their BTC back, so of course they don't really mind blowing BTC to the wind.

To hail that as something to be proud of....interesting to say the least. I guess every fool smiles when they take a crap.

Got my Redhash unit yesterday. I chose to use my own power supply and was in shock that my Trusty Antec 850 watt was inadequate to power the unit clocked at 328mhz per chip. It would shut down. At 300mhz or below it was fine. I swapped in my main rigs TR 1200 watt and no problems. Kill-A-Watt EZ Plug Power Meter shows 979 watts

How have your redhash units behaved with your own supplied power supplies?

Interesting... I measured mine at the wall at 953 watt with the default clocking. I wondered how an 850 watt power supply could do that???

There is something I do not understand, if avalon 10,000 worth 780 chips each are 0,078 BTC BTC a REDHASH worth 15 BTC and has 320 chips, this is 0,048 BTC per chip and includes PCB, assembly components, heatsink, power supply ... chips have been giving away avalon and I have not heard or explain this?

They took a loss and most sold 20-21 BTC.

I haven't a clue. My Antec is no piece of crap 850 watt either. Hopefully MRB from TAV will chime in on ther power supply magic. Had I known I would of paid 0.5 BTC for theirs as having to use my main rigs 1200 watt PS is a pain in butt. I was up 4 hours late last night trouble shooting my power supply issues to get the redhash functional

It is because according to the specs of your Antec TPQ-850 (http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/17-371-009-03.jpg), it can only supply 768W to the 12V rails. The remainder of the total wattage is available on other non-12V rails. And per my first post, our redhash unit need 780-790W at 12V. This is why we selected the Corsair TX850M for our redhash unit: it can supply 840W at 12V.

Optimator: the wattage of a PSU measures what it can supply (output) not what it can draw (input). The maximum input wattage at the wall is always higher than what it can supply due to inefficiencies (most PSUs are only 80-90% efficient). Per my first post, we measured our PSUs pulling 940W from the wall, and supplying 780-790W at 12V, which place them below their maximum rating of 840W.

Thanks. I overlooked this. My loss. Should of kept your PS. Live and Learn  :D

Might I inquire about the 62 units shown here?  Are those currently mining, or are they going up for sale?

EDIT:I can't math

Ahh... that makes sense. (optimator returns the fire extinguisher to the garage)  ;D

The rating is for DC power delivered.  The supply itself consumes power as unavoidable losses, and the wall power is the sum of the two.

This.  For Bitcoin mining all that matters is 12V power.  Also even for modern computers 90%+ of high load systems is going to be on the 12V rail.   Simple version is that "trusty" Antec 850 is a piece of junk.   Low efficiency, multiple small rails, 3.3V and 5V are directly rectified (means there is a min load to avoid unbalancing).  Most quality modern supplies use a single high efficiency rectification from AC to 12V and then do direct DC conversion for the ancillary voltages.  I would ebay it to someone who doesn't know any better.

I kind of need that "junk" to power my main PC rig whose power supply is now in the Redhash unit.
Whatever I would get for the Antec TP 850 on ebay wouldn't be worth the effort.

thanks for your input  :)


Question for MRB: I am thinking of modifying the Redhash case by cutting out the large diameter case housing integrated fan guards and installing industry standard chrome fan grills all around (5 holes).

Purpose increasing CFM and reduce noise.

Any reason I shouldn't?

the Avalon units used these as well.

http://bitcoinmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/avalon2.jpg

Newegg wouldn't mind you look at their junk

$154 regular $200/
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171078

Sure, you can do it!

FWIW: Corsair AX-1200 + Redhash @ 335mhz + Linksys WRT54G2 wireless router running DD-WRT == 945W at the wall @ ~108-111GH/s

What is the highest temp reading the unit tolerates?

I know it relative to the overall speed but lets say at the speed sold 328mhz.

Threader: technically it is not know, as we have not done destructive tests.

mrb - would you entertain people sending you Avalon gen1 chips and you churning out complete Redhashes?

plus one

Plus 2

Anyone try torture testing these guys yet ? I'm too much of a pussy to try pushing these guys to 350mhz for any length of time. Happy with 340mhz @ 26C at the moment on a Corsair AX 1200.

Highest I got mine was 107-108 @ 346. Running on a HX 1050 pulling 968w at the wall

We will do it if there is enough interest.

For example is anybody interested in the following: send us 320 chips (to our company in the USA), and we will assemble a full 105 Ghash/sec Redhash unit and ship it back to you for approximately 14 BTC, shipping of the unit included, worldwide? (This might sound close to Bitsyncom's price, but the advantage over a unit shipped from China is no customs for USA buyers, plus we use higher-quality components, cables, PSUs, fans, our chassis is rackable, etc.)

Let me see how much 320 chips would be.

My unit stops hashing at anytime of day. Doesn't matter if I down clock it or if the ambient air is hot or cold. Very annoying.

Tried some cron job cgminer re-start scripts I found searching this forum but they didn't work. Was forced to buy a digital timer power switch I have set to set power off and on during the times I am not home or sleeping every 2 hours. To date this issue I estimate has cost me 1-2 btc in lost productivity.

WOW so basically gen1 chips are already obsolete since it costs many times more in extras then chips themselves.

I think the price is now way too high.

60GH goes for 2BTC on Tradehill (even if 110GH Avalons are going for 15 on BitSynCom's site).

I would trade you 450 chips for a complete unit though ;)

What version of cgminer are you using? I had the same issue, but I'm now running 3.4.0 and it hasn't returned.

I had a problem with my unit stopping once or twice a day too. The redhash guy says do this:



Log in to the Web GUI of your Redhash unit.


- Add this line under System => Scheduled Tasks (please copy the line below that starts with "*/5" and ends with "boot", and paste it into the Web GUI):
*/5 *  *   *   *     cgminer-api devs | grep "MHS 5s] => 0.00" && /sbin/reboot

Bertrand saw my post on this forum and personally contacted me. I put that line in my Cron Tab this morning before going to work and shut off the power timer. System stopped hashing maybe 10 minutes after I left and that cron job did sweet fuck all. I had a feeling it was no good as tried manually rebooting with the reboot tab in the web gui and it never got the cgminer to re-start hashing.

Question to all your redhash owners, have you been successful in updating your firmware to 9/23?

Mine doesn't seem to do much and just stays on 07/03.

so $2100 and I supply the chips for 100gh?

That's really nice of you  [/sarcasm]

FTFY.

That was a one time deal and no one can just buy those units today for the 2.2-3BTC people bid on Tradehill.  Its like saying Avalon batch 1 was only $1500.  So?

Market price for 60Ghash was ~10BTC based on what I was seeing before the diff increase.  So maybe 6BTC now?

[Firmware Version] => 20130923
cgminer: 48681dd
cgminer-openwrt-packages: 3527ce4
luci: 296b358

 Working well here, although it already had that firmware on it by default.

Now Why would TAV send out Redhash units with different firmware from the same batch of 27?

I can't even flash the latest firmware. I sent an e-mail to TAV this morning.

[Firmware Version] => 20130703
cgminer-a011fe5
luci-d854edc+
cgminer-openwrt-packages-800cc58

(
   [STATUS] => S
   [When] => 1382123549
   

 In the interest of transparency, the initial TPLink i received was not able to establish an Ethernet link :( Was running via FTDI/USB driver for a couple days before they sent me out a replacement TPLink.

joeventura: well is there anybody anywhere offering a better price per Gh/s for NEW hardware available within 2 weeks? Honest question. (Used hardware from some random guy on bitcointalk does not count. It is normal to pay premium for new vs. old.)

Threader: contact support@thinairventures.com Sounds like we need to replace your tp-link.

I'm not joeventura, but http://avalon-asics.com/ (http://avalon-asics.com/) has 4-module units for BTC12 and 60GH/s minis for BTC6.  I have not ordered from them, but they claim that these are available for immediate delivery.

Yes. Available in under two weeks and much much lower wattage: https://megabigpower.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=53

Bitfury would be the same price as us ($20 per GH/s).

However as pointed out, in the last 48h(?) Avalon reduced their prices from 15 to 12 BTC for 4 modules and that would beat us...

Hi MRB,

for now I saw a post on the Avalon support thread that keeping your settings prevents the firmware from installing.

In my case that was spot on. I removed the check mark for keep settings and the firmware successfully upgraded to 09/23. It is now running. I will indeed contact you if the unit continues to spontaneously stop hashing at all hours of the day.

Thank you

With the recent run-up in BTC price, you're no longer at $20 per GH/s.

Only if you pay in BTCs, the 25Gh/s board still costs $500.00.

14 btc * $150 / 105 GH/s = $20/GH/s

+ chips

the 25GH board easily overclocks to 35GH for most users

 ;D Update:

Latest firmware cured hashing stalling issues. I happened to be looking at my pool web interface this morning when I noticed my Redhash had stopped accepting shares after 2 minutes but my BFL gear was still working well with the pool. So it wasn't a pool issue.

I logged into the redhash unit and it showed the pool dead but for the very time the failover worked and my second pool was hashing properly. At last at last  :D. Of course still an issue that it thought my pool was dead. I did a hard reset and the pool redhash deemed dead was alive  ;)

I am going to set my power timer to cycle power every 12 hours just for good measure but at least the failover works now and hashing doesn't stop.

Should of the updated the firmware day 1 but bricking paranoia got the best of me.

Thanks for the reply, not quite within our budget.

If you turned 320chips into a Redhash (minus PSU + freight) for say $1000USD (within an assured timeframe with penalty clause for late delivery) I'm sure you'd sell a few.

We have very small quantities of Redhash units now available on eBay under our new vendor account:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Redhash-105-Gh-s-ASIC-Bitcoin-Miner-Avalon-clone-/321233038462?#shpCntId

Paypal will bring down the hammer on you. They held and locked my business account with 25k in it because I sold some singles on ebay... prepare to not have a good time.

I was interested in maybe buying 1 if price was right, current bid at $1,499 and 23hr left to go but I then saw your shipping quote to Australia, WTF? I could ship a Bus from USA to AUS for that price?

Shipping: $888.33 UPS Worldwide Saver | See details

Did I read that right?? "Worldwide SAVER"

Even $1000 seems very high. 

im the highest bidder right now. :P can i get the local pickup still? Also can i just drive down and pick one up for 1500 cash?

Our shipping is free. The eBay posting even says "Shipping: FREE Standard Shipping".

I wanted to make it easier for you and not involve paypal.

sebdude420: local pickup is possible, but payment should be made through Paypal. We need to go though the motions to establish some eBay/Paypal history, even though, as bobsag3 pointed out, purchases of Bitcoin hardware tend to raise flags. The only way to make eBay/Paypal more friendly toward such purchases is to have more and more vendors and customers trade successfully.

See I tried that.
They still limited my funds for 3 weeks, then proceded to close it automatically today after I withdrew my funds. 2 of my Coop members have also had their accounts taken out in similar fashion. I provided them everything from invoices to pictures to timestamped shipping and no dice. Paypal and ebay are all talk, and they will tell you what you want to hear on the phone and do the exact opposite.

I don't understand why they care when it comes to hardware.  I can understand bitcoins being sold because it causes them hassle from charge backs and they don't seem to understand how the blockchain works, but hardware is a hard piece of equipment that has a tracking number which is easily accessible to them.  Maybe bitcoin in general scares them because they know its better then paypal... of course they could just embrase it and probabey make a nice little profit but whatever.

Kudos mrb!  Great work from a small operation that didn't need "preorders" to make something happen.  Keep up the good work and get a 28nm version going.

All the chargebacks for everything BTC related have made them trigger-happy with regards to BTC

Thats a mistake. If someone pays by PayPal and picks it up they will charge it back and without a tracking number you will be SOL.

I am aware. But we can afford to fight a possible dispute, and it would be worth fighting IMHO.

User705: we will take a signed declaration of the customer receiving goods, with copy of his ID.

It doesn't appear that you've sold much on eBay with PayPal.  You seem we'll intentioned but that will not matter to eBay or PayPal and they will simply refund the buyer since you didn't follow their rules.

It does not matter what kind of reasonable argument or the amount of proof you may have. There are many scammers using stolen Paypal and Credit Cards purchasing digital currency and mining equipment. eBay/PayPal regards anything "Bitcoin or Litecoin" related to be in violation of their policy. Therefore, when you get a couple thousand dollar charge-back, PayPal is going to say fuck you, and then as as even more slap in the face, they will freeze your account and make you sign an affidavit. I will NEVER sell anything bitcoin related on eBay again. It is ridiculous. Here is the letter they sent me when they froze my account:

https://i.imgur.com/JKHwiQM.png

This.

Please please please listen to those of us who have had to do this.
I was also told I had to sign a affidavit... to bad it never came in the mail :P

I Am Not A Lawyer, but the policy described only seems to forbid selling bitcoins, not mining equipment.

I can definitely understand why they can't let people be exchanging currency, as that is a highly-regulated business that they surely don't want to get involved with.

Did they send this letter out in response to selling bitcoins, or gear?  It doesn't say anything about anything except actual bitcoin exchange.

Both. I got almost yelled at by a Paypal supervisor for selling singles on ebay. I never ever sold BTC itself- just the hardware. They didnt differentiate.