Bitcoin Forum

http://avalon-asics.com/product/avalon-mini-60ghs/

Is this a viable product anymore?  I was looking around on the forums and saw a thread in which a person claimed a 36-day ROI period.

If yes, what is the ROI period?

Product Description:
Avalon Mini is a two module power house clocking the 110nm chips at 375Mhz, 60Gh/s consuming 600 watts from the wall.

Are external power supplies needed?

Thanks

http://i2.wp.com/avalon-asics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/DSC02234.jpg?resize=503%2C480

it will probably produce 4-6BTC during its lifetime, assuming you have cheap power or utilize its power use to heat your home.

So, I guess no ROI...

Has CoinTerra started shipping?  On thegenesisblock.com, it seems to be profitable.

The mini is prifitable if you get at normore than 2.5 btc in the next 2 weeks

So if you got them here they will ROI:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=305685.320

So yes, or no?

http://wartburgbugle.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/p2-depend.jpg

Imagine the scenario where one doesn't accept their miner from the carriage, going for the refund/suing option, only to learn the next week that BTC is trading at $300 USD.

They haven't taped out yet.  They do appear to offer refunds but you might have to fight with them.

Just so you know, the $7K KnC machines at 550GH are only producing 1 btc now.  And the difficulty is only going to get much worse.

People are looking at the rise in the spot price as something they can justify, but the truth is you will get more BTC by buying direct.  The spot price will also see another correction soon.  It will see a huge correction if Benjamin Lawsky starts flexing his banking boner that he has interests in.  The Aristocrats can never have enough money and never get enough of enjoying their control over you.

Aspiring miners are going to have to get a clue before we can hope for any profitable products on the market again. In the meantime, the only winning move is either not to play, or find a good deal on second hand equipment (from someone who can't stomach the losses from their turkey of a purchase)

Here is your answer and no BS here. The claims that a 36 day RIO is in fact possible, but it all depends and comes down to 1 difficulty every 2 weeks if IF you are mining Bitcoin, not forgetting the price of them however every 2 weeks or so Avalon units are coming down in price and well am sure you can do math and work out on alt coin within a month buying Avalon units will in fact be much more profitable than buying into these big rigs that others are using.

KNC for example 500GH and making 1BTC a day ok but for how long not long tho and buying KNC at their price now is not profitable. Reason been is that by the time you buy your KNC unit diff will of gone up by around 8 more while waiting in pre orders ans waiting weeks on end to get your unit. Nov orders for dec delivery 4 weeks 2 diff changes. Dec orders for late dec and jan 2 to 4 more diff changes and then some increments of around 40 to 60% increment each time. So when you get your unit your looking to make maybe 0.5 or 0.3 or even 0.2btc per day. I got a batch  2 Avalon and that was making 2BTC a day when I was alt coining then 1.8, 1.5, 1.2, 0.8 and currently 0.3 to 0.4 depending on what is mined when its mined Or 2 you are taking this to the ALT world and mining on them.

I wont give advise publicly but on a safe guard and realistic RIO you are talking 40 to 50 days and after that is all profit minus the expenses for energy if you pay. Myself have stopped mining BTC due to how stupid the diff is going up. If you want solid advise from someone who has been mining for the last 2 years and calculating diff and increments and where to mine what to mine and then some, feel free to pm me.

Its your own decision when buying into hardware and myself I am going to be buying a few more mini units over the next few weeks due to the cost coming down every 2 weeks time and it will be well worth it. Plus Avalon have gen 2 units coming up and I know of a few company's going to be releasing 1 to 3TH units but then even them in time will be worthless it all comes down to batches and how long it takes to get them. My friend last night placed an order for the mini unit on Thursday this week just gone and hes already got his tracking number. Least with Avalon your getting units on buy now and shipped out in a week or less and no wasting on pre orders.

Hardware in a way s good to grab coins and continue mining them until they become worthless and can then just trade. Trading is where the money is at if you want to earn and live of earnings. Mining and hardware in my view is a hobby and a way to access coins and generate them with the possibility of some really fast ROIs and bigger profits if you get it at the right time.

this is a really down to earth article on ROI AND PROFIT

http://codinginmysleep.com/is-asic-mining-unprofitable-depends/

this (http://btc.anapaapps.com/) is a calculator i have been playing with for a while. everybody tells me that its not an adequate calc but for the past couple months it has done pretty good and getting close to where i would be with miners running. we have seen ~30% increases for the past 5 diff jumps until the most recent one which was over 40% but with all the hardware coming out, 40's or better may be what we see for a while. but who knows.

it seems that you cant get in to mining to be profitable anymore unless you have massive amounts of money to spend on hardware/power/cooling. at least btc/usd is trending upwards right now so maybe that can help keep the low output of miners a still survivable market for smaller mining setups

Here's how I see it play out:

buy buy buy hardware no matter what.  This is a situation where cryptominers will have a lot of hardware to be utilized but there are no other major coins gaining promimence yet.  All those people who bought hardware are driven towards utilizing it long after bitcoin difficulty is sky high and thus a new cryptocoin champion with lesser difficulty like that of lightcoin but geared towards sha256 (it is appearing that ppc coin is becoming this champion slowly (faster than the likes of butterfly coin, asic coin, joulecoin, freicoin, and terracoin anyway)) will be around for us miners with gen 1 hardware to utilize to see mining revenues.  


All those folks who say....buy and hold....these folks are in it for the immediate profit and exit (like Venture Capitalists).  I am not discounting them, their points are very valid if you are in this for profit only and want to buy in at a "hopefully" low rate and watch the price explode.  However if you buy and then sell at the gain...you see profit and that's it.  With hardware, you see less profit initially, but your hardware is here to stay.  

I promote Cex.io (https://cex.io/r/1/frankenmint/0/) all the time, but even for them, the drawback is that while you're buying a demonimation of the processing power form their hardware, you will only see gains from btc.  That is, you cannot buy hashpower from cloudhashing, or cexio and be able to utilize it towards one of the altcoins with a potentially higher payout when the exchange price increases for a given alt.

@frankenmint : i give you 1gh/s :)  (i signed up )

Btw Cex.io (https://cex.io/r/1/fractal/0/) is pretty good, thank's for the discover frankenmint ;)

Use http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/ to calculate it as it assumes a profit decline into the equation.  ::)

I got 63 days based on 6BTC @ $170ea 0.15c/kWh power but prices move every day who knows tomorrow or how long it takes to deliver?

hah! I wouldn't pay for that device more than BTC2. 600 watts? Heck, KnC is around 700 for 500 megahash. So no, even with free electricity I wouldn't pay the price they asking

Thank you friend indeed props for that one.

I checked too, that's good!

Would you recommend?

those calcs dont count on diff increase. btcinvest.net is better. 2btc its well worth. 6 not so sure.

That calculator assumes decrease of profitability over A YEAR and the default is set to 60%. Difficulty has been increasing 40% every 10 days or so.

...so it's not accurate?

If we assume ~35 10day periods in a year and compound 40% increases each period that gives roughly a 13,000,000% increase over that year.  Does 13M% increase in difficulty sound like more than 60% drop in profitability?

Of course we very likely won't see 40% increases each period over the next 12 months, however the take away should be that yes profitability will almost certainly drop far more than 60% in a year.

Please correct me if my 13m figure is off, it's been awhile since I've done much math.

By my calculations At $170/btc and $0.15 / kWh (http://btc.anapaapps.com/index.php?fee=0&diff=267731249.0000&rate=0.15&pwr=600&hw=6&hwtype=1&hash=60&usdbtc=170&days=365.00&avgdif=0.4&addghs=0&addghsbtc=0&addghspwr=0) its going to cost more to mine than what you return after around 70 days at 40% increases, so you dont even have to look at it a full year.

Even at the rate as of this posting which is $195 / btc that would only buy you a few more days at 40% increases.

Its almost like the inital calcs were made (intentionally incorrectly) by hardware makers to help push sales.

it will produce 2.8 - 5.5 btc before power costs more than it mines.

This is assuming a profitability decline of 35% every 10.x days.   Last increase was over ~40%

What is the interval between diff increases?

10.x?  10 * what?

This hardware is overpriced and a terrible investment.

60Gh will only return 3.5BTC when you factor in missing 1 jump due to 5-7 day shipping from china.

http://btcinvest.net/en/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=390928787.63809&dcosts=8000&diff_mincrease=30&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=60000&diff_mincreasedecrease=3&btcusd=190.75&dpowcon=30&btcusd_mincrease=1&pcost=0.25&calcweeks=32&dleadtime=1&action=calc

Why would someone spend 4BTC, to only get 3.5BTC back?

Mining hardware is insanely overpriced from every manufacturer. Why? Because they wouldn't sell it unless they made more selling it then plugging it in themselves.