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This people are not policeman, they are thugs.

Your taxdollars at work:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04MNf1YdNxI

Damn right.  If they are left set up stalls, they they will be left build shops there.

Is that what you want?

To be fair, I don't believe the public would prefer these area to be filled with vendors. If the land was privately owned, it would be a similar case. The arrests were excessive and certainly a waste of resources. The female officer was also unjustified in assaulting the person with the camera. However, selling lemonade on this property is justifiably unlawful but should be treated under more reasonable means.

Its an act of protests. Its civil disobedience.

Protesting what? The will of property owners which in this case is the public? Now, you can protest the means that decide such rules but I believe it can be determined that its unanimous that people don't want these grounds flooded with solicitors.

I see no cause worth protesting. I could be in support of their cause if it included selling lemonade on your own property without a permit but the means used here don't address such ends.

That it is ilegal to sell limonade without a license.

So they should go on private property they have a right to and sell it there.

The cause of free trade has never been about having a unilateral to sell it on whomever's property you may wish, last I checked.

You could go ahead and say it's an issue of public property in the first place but the cause of protest and issue at-hand have little relevance to how said property is mandated and provisioned. They need to be arguing for privatization in that case and not doing what they wish upon it. Hopefully they have the money to purchase the public lands they wish to sell lemonade on.

They still wouldn't be allowed to do that without a 'lemonade-vending' license, which is what they are protesting about.

Correct.  Why should they have free use of the Capitol green areas?  If they can sell lemonade, can I set up a burger bar?  Or a hotel ?

They deserved to get arrested.

Although one small complaint I have is that they needed that many cops + a van to arrest a couple of kids.

It's a protest, it's not "selling thing on capitol land", try to understand

I don't live in USA and i find that a bad thing, tons of police and these poor guys ARRESTED for some lemonade? Meh, they really have nothing better to do? Like uh, try to avoid a default or retake AAA rating or these things you know...
Didn't know you could be arrested for some lemonade, maybe a fine but arrested? Ridicolous.

If it helps, getting arrested is part of many protests.  You don't need to feel sorry for them as they went there fully intending to break the law and get arrested on camera.

They were politely asked to leave.  They refused.  So the police didn't have a choice; it was either forget about the law and allow everyone who feels like it open a shop on the public lands or arrest them.

The fact that they get arrested show us that protests are repressed, and that is a BAD thing.

No, it shows us that laws are enforced, as they should be.  They can protest all they want in a legal way.  Setting up a vending booth on public grounds without a permit is illegal, not a protest activity.

The alternative is that anyone can go on your land, announce it's a protest and take it from you.  Would that be a GOOD thing?

The police did have a choice.  People don't have a choice when force is used.

Did you not watch the video.  The protesters were breaking the law.  That was their choice.  If they don't like the law, they can agitate and get it changed. 

The police were doing their jobs.  Of course they could have resigned if it was a matter of conscience but apart from that "choice" they have to implement the law. 

Out of curiosity, who believes that property is public property and who believes it is private property and why? I don't have a position or understanding that it is one or the other,  does anyone have evidence of one or the other?

Yes.
They sure were.
It sure was.
They sure agitated, alright.


Does getting paid to do something remove your ability to make a choice?  At least we agree it was their choice to take the job.  And if the cops didn't make a choice, then who deiced to arrest these people?  I didn't see any lawmakers there.  Hey, what if i paid to protestors to do what they did?  Then no one would have a choice.  What a strange world that would be.

They wouldn't have to resign.  Now, they might get fired later, but if that is their reason then they were more like cowards.  Even cowards have a choice. 

I used work near the Capitol.  The green spaces there are mostly public property.


Um, the police did the right thing.  No reason why they would risk being fired for the sake of some greedy people who want to avoid paying for a permit.  Its not their land so they have no right to use it against the will of the owners.

I am not questioning if they did the right thing.

I can't take you seriously if you think any of this was about greed.  I imagine if your neighbor was fined a million dollars for some minor problem, then you would say "Suck it up and stop being so greedy."  Yes, I think you would.

Perhaps I don't know what "public" means, but if I get your rebuttal correct, then they could sell their lemonade on my property if i gave them permission?  Well, I say, congratulations, you understand the point of the protest.  I am so proud of you.

In simple terms, they don't own the land.  They want to use the land to sell stuff.  Lemonade, beer, burgers, clothes, souvenirs, its a great spot.

The owner of the land does not want it used for vendors.

The police, acting on behalf of the land owner, asked them to stop using the owners land and when they refused, the police arrested them.

Thats what police are for; they did the right thing.

Of course its win for the protesters, as the main objective of the protest is to get people to consider rezoning that area as commercial property and at least we are talking about it.  But don't confuse the issue by regarding the police as the problem.  If you don't like the rule, the land owner is the problem.

Oh my god.

This has absolutely nothing to do with what this video is about.

Even if the owner of the land said "Hey vendors come and sell lemonade on my land!" they still would be breaking the law* because they didn't get an official license to sell lemonade.

*This is the law they're protesting, not some private/public property issue.

Is some sort of license required to sell lemonade on your own private property? I have never heard of such a requirement, but I have never had the need to look into it.

This protest has no respect for property rights. If they want to have the right to sell lemonade on their property without a permit then why don't they do it on THEIR PROPERTY/PROVISIONED PRIVATE PROPERTY?

They make their whole cause look bad.

Wow... mark your calendars, folks.  This will be the first and probably only time I agree 100% with Atlas.

I also 100% agree.

If they had have done as Immatlas Go suggested then people watching the video wouldn't mistake the issue for one of property rights instead of one of vendor-licensing requirements.

Are you saying that if I set up a lemonade stand on my own private property (in USA) with the intent to sell lemonade, I would need to get a vendor license?

Yes. In my town that is the case.

+1 Logical thinking. Someone hacked into his account  :D.

The police is shutting down a lot of kid stands that try to sell lemonade to earn a few dollars during summer (like they use to do) because they require to pay a license. We can not allow the kids to take business away from the big operators and so we need regulations to keep the big business safe... This was an act of protest against it.

In my state as well. I actually think it's completely illegal here to sell food/beverages out of your house. It needs to be a business facility with all permits/sanitary inspections made.

Interesting, I was not aware of that. Do you know what section of municipal/state code that appears? Business/Corporate code or Health/Safety? I am interested in digging into this more.

I think a new version of this song/animation is needed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtN1YnoL46Q

...one where the authorities come in and shut him down for having no license.

If you allow the kids to set up vending stand on someone else's property, then you have to allow the big business to do so as well.

Is that really your utopia?  One where people or corporations can come along, use your property against your wishes, the police do nothing and and you end up resorting to violence?

Holy shit man are you even reading this thread? hugolp said absolutely nothing of using other people's property.

He is a known troll. Not even worth answering. Just ignore him.

Watch the video.  They are using other people's property.

No shit, it still doesn't change hugolp's post... however I'll take his advice and ignore you from now on.

Its funny how when people are wrong about something, the answer is "Troll; I'll ignore you."

One of the girls arrested has a blog post expalining the experience. Btw, they were not charged with using someone else property, they were charged with selling lemonade and not obeying the police. According to the USA government the "Lemonade Libertarion" group is the new big thread (sadly its no joke).

http://megmclain.com/?p=48

If after reading this anyone is not convinced the USA has become a police state I dont know what will. They can do all that just because someone sold lemonade without license.

Fail trolling is FAIL

They protest against having to have a license to sell lemonade on YOUR OWN PROPERTY

And in the video you see a PROTEST, not people selling lemonade, it's different. Can you understand? DIFFERENT.

Public property can be of two kinds: Public property , like roads , parks , forests , monuments where the OWNER in this case the public through it's representative the STATE can't chose who has access or not, and Private Public Property , like all companies owned by the state , and agencies , etc. , places where the OWNER in this case the public through it's representative the STATE can choose who has access or not. If a property is private from what i know you have to signal this and then the public can't have unconditional access. If a property is simply public then everyone has access on to it and from what i see that property is simply public , SO THE PEOPLE WERE PROTESTING BY DOING SOMETHING ILLEGAL . The police people did their job if it's their job to arrest those without a vending permit but that has nothing to do with the place they were doing it.

Cool.  I'm going to stage a protest on your front lawn by parking my hot dog truck and selling hot dogs, right on your front lawn.  I'll be over in five minutes.  Hopefully it's ok with you (not that I care).

That's completely correct.  They have full access to it.  They can walk around, sit down and relax, hang out, have a picnic, talk to friends, have a meet-up, etc.  No one disputed them having access to the property.

What they were doing was using this public property to run a business off of.  That's not part of public access to public property.  I can't drop a McDonalds down in the middle of a park, just because the park is open to the public.

The place has nothing to do with the arrests. Even if you would do it (sell without a permit) from your house it would still be Illegal . You can have a ice cream truck  and roam the ROADS ,and sell but you need a PERMIT. IT IS SIMPLE . THEIR UNLAWFULNESS isn't related at all with the capitol grass . NOT EVEN the PROTEST isn't related to the capitol grass but to the fact that you need a DAMNED PERMIT to sell a freaking LEMONADE. THEIR PROTEST is about making "children" PAY FOR A PERMIT TO SELL LEMONADE .

THE PERMIT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH KEEPING PUBLIC PLACES FREE OF LEMONADE STANDS BUT WITH GETTING TAXES OUT OF YOUR EVERY ACTIVITY.

Obviously it's beyond your comprehension that, had they wanted to make this solely about permits, they would have set up the stand on their own front lawn.  That would be a protest again permits.

Setting up a vending booth on the Capitol's lawn is a moronic way to get the message out about lemonade stand permits, because no one with a brain is going to sympathize with people trying to turn a profit off public grounds.  Hell, even Atlas saw how stupid this idea was - that's how blatantly obvious it is.

That is exactly their let's call it moronity . They wanted more effect. I believe they thought that if they do it on their lawn they wouldn't get to much attention , and most probably no police would show up. But yes you are right this is a moronic protest because the capitol grass stole their shit :)). If they want to protest against permits there are far better ways to do it. They should sell underground and fund children who want to open stands :D

As a protest, it was a success.  An issue that no-one ever bothered about it being debated.  So kudos to them for thinking up that way of protesting and having the guts to go through with being arrested.

It will be interesting to see if this quickly dies away as an issue no-one cares about or if its the start of a movement against the requirement for a permit to set up a vending operation. 

In my view the protest was a failure because we ended up debating about property and about the freaking grass. But yes they DESERVE respect for having the guts to protest and go through with being arrested. If in the end people realize about what the protest was about and forget about the capitol grass which i already stated has nothing to do with them being arrested and with the protest and start doing something about the issue then it won't be a failure anymore. I think they should go back to the drawing board because the capitol grass stole their protest .

It didnt. Its just the trolls of the forum trolling people. If you see the post of the girl arrested that I have posted above they were arrested for selling lemonade without a license and not for anything the trolls are saying.

Bingo.

And most of these same "protesters" eat up the line of BS they are fed by the likes of Obama and will continue to vote in the same Oligarchy. Money buys votes maybe but people still have to vote and when you have career Senators and Representatives doing 25, 30 years or more you no longer have an elected body but a ruling class.

John Dingell (D-MI)      55 years (Total time in DC)
Daniel K. Inouye (D-HI)   48 years
John Conyers (D-MI)      46 years
Charles B. Rangel (D-NY)   40 years
Bill Young (R-FL)      40 years
Thad Cochran (R-MS)      38 years
Pete Stark (D-CA)      38 years
Don Young (R-AK)      38 years
Patrick J. Leahy (D-VT)   36 years
Max Baucus (D-MT)      36 years
Chuck Grassley (R-IA)   36 years
Tom Harkin (D-(IA)      36 years
George Miller (D-CA)      36 years
Henry Waxman D-CA)   36 years
Orrin Hatch (R-UT)      34 years
Richard Lugar (R-IN)      34 years

Do you know what was going on when these guys started in DC? For most they were in office when the trial of Watergate burglars begins. George Foreman TKOs Joe Frazier, Roe vs. Wade, U.S. and Vietnam sign cease-fire. Some go back to Lyndon B. Johnson and the start (ok the escalation of) the Vietnam War, Joe Namath SIGNS with the Jets, Martin Luther King, Jr marches in Selma.

They have no clue what "people" in this country want, need, expect. Your a slave, they are the rulers, shut up slaves and pay your taxes.

Whose fault is that, the elected officials or the apathetic, ignorant public who is too lazy to vote them out?

+1 for "the apathetic, ignorant public"

What about the camera guy assault by the police? Being assaulted in that way is illegal. Time to sue, i say

The retards arguing about public vs. private property should really stop with the red herrings. The same results would have obtained if it was on their own front lawn. The only meaningful difference is that there is more publicity the way they did it.

Morons.

Couldn't we agree on the fact that there's a huge difference between a stall and an actual store?

Pfff...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UyiaR1PDhQ&feature=related

Feel sorry for ya all :(

Now that is fucked up.

This is why I cringe when Hillary travels around the world spreading US 'ideals'.