Bitcoin Forum

Can a algorithm be patented ? What about ASICs ? Can Bitmain patent a particular ASIC so that others can't manufacturer an asic for a particular algo without licence from patent holder ?

Well if you can patent it, how would you control it?
I dont think that is possible, but the time will tell  ;D

It's even worse if one is to believe what is written.
https://blog.sia.tech/the-state-of-cryptocurrency-mining-538004a37f9b

Bitmain is said to play dirty and actively prevents anyone else to develop / manufacture ASICs for mining. They can do this because most competitive chip makers are in China and they have the resources to do what they want.

I have read that article but that doesn't answer my question. I am not asking about Bitmain in particular but about any company if they can patent their ASICs.

You can probably patent the design of an ASIC chip or machine, but software put on it would need to be copyrighted.  I don’t know if you can copyright open source software that anyone can compile.  On top of that, any patent or copyright is only as strong as the country where it is filed.  (I am not an attorney, so don’t consider this legal advice.)

I think patents and/or copyrights are international.

of course you can try to patent it, but noboby will give a fuck ;D

But patent can stop big, registered companies from using that algo right ?

Bitmain got alot of patents. One of the more well knowned is ASICBOOST, that hindered every other ASIC manufacturer to develop it and bitmain kept 30% speed boost to their self.
I hate that patents and copyright has made its way into Bitcoin/altcoins. The whole point of crypto is the decentralized and open idea behind it. :( now its all about making money.

Seems reasonable to conclude there will be more attempts made as big money and centralization attempt to expand into the space.

And what is the proletum? The patents are usually chips, processors and etc. I am sure that Bitmain has a patent for chip asic. Can someone make asics on Bitmain chips without permission?
We have in Russia producing asics on the permission of Bitmain. Technology 28 nm :)
Capacity 176 TH /s SHA256, consumption 64 kW :)
Model FM2017-BT16. Learn more on Russian  http://criptoprofit.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=84

Okay, so it looks like that ASIC miners can be patented.

But what about alogorithm ? Can someone patent it ? I know that it won't stop devs with hidden identities or underground projects but what about registered companies ? Will patent stop them from using it ?

Are you completely manufacturing the ASICs in Russia ? The manufacturing cost will be too high.

By technology 28 nm asics are completely assembled in Russia( Chips are supplied from China). Yes it's old and inefficient technology, but ...

176 Th / s SHA256 (up to 200Th / s can be accelerated), consumption 64 kW - price 17600 $ (new) or used ~ 11000 $

The price of electricity in Russia is $ 0.03-0.04 per Kw, and can be found cheaper.

But devices using 16 nm technology are supplied from China. While Bitmain does not give permission to manufacture.
Here is the photo
https://s8.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/thumbs/2018/05/4c29855cf5557a2d1e33918ba7b03529.png (https://hostingkartinok.com/show-image.php?id=4c29855cf5557a2d1e33918ba7b03529)

Patented in which country?  Licensed in which country?  Various countries have various laws and sometimes there actually are international laws that meet up but are rarely followed.

Look at ccminer.  It's "licensed" but that doesn't stop people from duplicating the code, optimizing it, and then slapping on a dev fee.

Personally, I don't mind paying dev fees but by this point so many people know how to remove the dev fees and the intellectual property has been so far dispersed from any of the true originators... well... by now people should stop being so greedy.

So... patents?  licenses?  I just don't think these things should be for such profiteering aims in crypto land.  If someone has an original idea and wants to profit from it then they should do so from the beginning and enjoy it while it lasts.

Is the family of the guy who invented sliced bread living in eternal wealth because we send a nickel for every sliced loaf of bread?  lol

Even if you own a technology of 10 nm for the production of a chip, then you need to build a plant worth several billion dollars, you need qualified engineers.
Software is very hard to protect.
In most cases, software makers want a lot of money for their products. For example, the average salary in the USA is 3000-4000 dollars per month, the average salary in Russia is 500 dollars :) So the idiots from Microsoft sell Windows in Russia at a price of 120-300 dollars and an office at the same price or subscription for 50-60 dollars a year.
The most ridiculous thing is that in the USA it costs much cheaper.

Yes and this is what leads to piracy but also cost of living is Russia and asia is cheaper compared to US. I just download full softwares from torrents. I bought a pirated pre-activated Win10 ultimate for 1$ lol.

I was asking the question because we are working on a brand new algo.

no... patents and/or copyrights are only enforceable in the countries where they are obtained.   so if you want protection for your invention in a country or multiple countries, you must obtain a patent in each of the countries you want protection for.

You can file for your invention at wipo (world intellectual property organization) which would give you a PCT (patent cooperation treaty), and this would allow you to obtain the same filing date that you can use to pursue filing for patents in different countries.  WIPO is part of the United Nations.  The gives you the earliest filing date for filing for patents in various countries.  This is not a patent though, it's just for the filing date, and it gives you up to 30 months to file in various countries.   This is not an international patent.  There is no such thing as an international patent.  You can only enforce your patent in the country you obtain the patent from.

A patent will not stop someone from using a patent.  A patent gives the patent holder the ability to enforce their patent in a court of law in the country which it was obtained.   

for example.  China can enforce their patent in China, to prevent someone in china from illegally using a patent.   They would not be able to enforce their patent in Russia, but they can prevent imports from Russia into China, where the products of the import violate the China patents.

How do big companies protect their software and hardware then ? That too at an international level.

Big companies have their own legal departments that file the correct paperwork in every country where they want to do business.

Most of your questions could be answered by calling a patent attorney in your area.

i think so. linux software is an opensource but RED hat enterprise solely made it to be their own. open source doesn't mean anyone can edit and has to give it back to the community but a company can edit it and simply made it for their proprietary. but I could be wrong though.

Every big company has offices in countries where it sells its products. Protection of interests takes place according to the legislation of each country.

 Yes and no.

 Anyone can create an ASIC.  Most ASIC manufacturers use chips and components from other vendors.  The only way Bitmain could patent their ASICs and benefit from it is if they developed the chip themselves and didn't license it to anyone else.  If this chip warranted a patent then it the answer is yes.  This scenario only works though if only their ASIC could run a particular algorithm. 

 However, if they buy the chips from someone else they still may be able to patent their ASIC, but that would not prevent other companies from buying the same chip and making their own. 

 It would not be in anyone best interests to let a single entity control an algorithm and the hardware that hashes it.  I think you would find that no one would buy it.

The reality is quite different. The most centralised cryptocurrency has the highest market capital and volume. Also it is mined by patented ASICs only. Just look at how powerful Bitmain has become. If what you say was true then this would have not happened.