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Title: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: dvaic on October 04, 2011, 01:01:18 PM Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value
Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: Cryptoman on October 04, 2011, 04:34:24 PM Excellent. Donation sent.
Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 04, 2011, 04:52:04 PM Nice. I donated. Anything to get some positive press for bitcoin.
Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: klaus on October 04, 2011, 05:02:02 PM great thing. similar to the happenings with wikileaks pp->btc donations 9 month ago. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: sadpandatech on October 04, 2011, 05:04:45 PM I never would have donated if they were using Paypal, etc! Donation sent.
Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: Red on October 04, 2011, 05:08:08 PM Alright, support the #feedtheprotest cause, but don't bang this particular PayPal drum too loudly.
The guy admitted he had a paypal billing issue 8 years ago where he claimed not to be responsible for some charges. PayPal investigated, found no fraud, but he never followed up with them. He simply cancelled his PayPal account. Quote After a lengthy conversation with a customer service representative, I got to the root of the problem. Over eight years ago I had a personal Paypal account with an attached debit card. When unknown charges appeared on my statement, I canceled the card and reported it stolen. I filled paperwork and a police report with Paypal. Since launching FeedTheProtest.com, Paypal has determined that these eight-year-old charges, were, in fact, not fraudulent, and that I would be personally responsible for them if I wished to "enjoy the convenience of on-line processing…" Now he's claiming this is a wikileaks situation. PayPal annoys me as much as the next guy, but make sure you investigate the horse's health before you hitch your wagon to it. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: sadpandatech on October 04, 2011, 05:20:45 PM Alright, support the #feedtheprotest cause, but don't bang this particular PayPal drum too loudly. The guy admitted he had a paypal billing issue 8 years ago where he claimed not to be responsible for some charges. PayPal investigated, found no fraud, but he never followed up with them. He simply cancelled his PayPal account. Quote After a lengthy conversation with a customer service representative, I got to the root of the problem. Over eight years ago I had a personal Paypal account with an attached debit card. When unknown charges appeared on my statement, I canceled the card and reported it stolen. I filled paperwork and a police report with Paypal. Since launching FeedTheProtest.com, Paypal has determined that these eight-year-old charges, were, in fact, not fraudulent, and that I would be personally responsible for them if I wished to "enjoy the convenience of on-line processing…" Now he's claiming this is a wikileaks situation. PayPal annoys me as much as the next guy, but make sure you investigate the horse's health before you hitch your wagon to it. Well, I can't speak for anyone else but my dislike for Paypal and unwillingness to donate thru corporate channels has absolutly ZERO to do with feeling compelled due to FTP's Paypal situation! Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 04, 2011, 05:21:33 PM If anything I think it shows the excessive power of entities like PayPal.
You claim he closed the account and never followed up with Paypal but I don't see that mentioned. He reported credit card stolen and filed Police report (granted not verified) and 8 years later Paypal determined (based on what) that he must pay or never use their service again? No appeals process, no independent 3rd party. I don't know but most people don't report credit cards stolen and file Police reports over "billing issues". Maybe he is full of shit.... that isn't the point. The point is he could be telling the truth and an entity like Paypal holds all the cards. If they decide fraud didn't happen (when it did) you lose. If they decide fraud happened (when it didn't) you lose. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: MoonShadow on October 04, 2011, 05:24:46 PM Alright, support the #feedtheprotest cause, but don't bang this particular PayPal drum too loudly. The guy admitted he had a paypal billing issue 8 years ago where he claimed not to be responsible for some charges. PayPal investigated, found no fraud, but he never followed up with them. He simply cancelled his PayPal account. Quote After a lengthy conversation with a customer service representative, I got to the root of the problem. Over eight years ago I had a personal Paypal account with an attached debit card. When unknown charges appeared on my statement, I canceled the card and reported it stolen. I filled paperwork and a police report with Paypal. Since launching FeedTheProtest.com, Paypal has determined that these eight-year-old charges, were, in fact, not fraudulent, and that I would be personally responsible for them if I wished to "enjoy the convenience of on-line processing…" Now he's claiming this is a wikileaks situation. PayPal annoys me as much as the next guy, but make sure you investigate the horse's health before you hitch your wagon to it. I've had similar experiences with PayPal. I'm inclined to believe his version of events. Evidence simply doesn't pop up eight years later of guilt, Occum's Razor suggests that PayPal has decided that it doesn't like what this guy is doing, and wishes to distance themselves from his activities without it looking like another Wikileaks debaucle. That certainly has cost PayPal much international business. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: Otoh on October 04, 2011, 05:45:29 PM up to a total of nearly BTC 100 donated in 1 week, I like how everyone can automaticaly see all of these donations too if they wish - an added bonus that prior forms of donating to things didn't have & that may appeal to other fund raisers - it's a bit like seeing the graphic of a thermometer that fills up to the target/s if set, like say 1,000 Btc to fix the church roof, 10,000 Btc to build a school house, etc
http://blockexplorer.com/address/1EUqkFmL9HNpBRvbWRAqCiUjepaR7Vbryp Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: Red on October 04, 2011, 05:54:54 PM I've had similar experiences with PayPal. I'm inclined to believe his version of events. Evidence simply doesn't pop up eight years later of guilt, Occum's Razor suggests that PayPal has decided that it doesn't like what this guy is doing, and wishes to distance themselves from his activities without it looking like another Wikileaks debaucle. That certainly has cost PayPal much international business. Now personally, I think PayPal are a bunch of weenies. I'm personally offended by what they did to wikileaks. I make some regular credit card payments though PayPal at the merchant's request. But I refuse to "validate" my PayPal account by giving them my personal bank account information. That just seems stupid to me. Expecially given their history. They don't need to "validate" me. The credit card company confirms my identity by processing my payments. They are disingenuous weenies for even asking. But anyone who has ever bought a house knows, the lender always find something stupid and annoying in your financial history. You write letters explaining issues, you pay off anything insignificant that might hold off your process. Or you don't. But if you don't, you aren't awarded free liberty to associate your misfortune with black helicopters. Just saying. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: RodeoX on October 04, 2011, 05:58:57 PM When I get home tonight I'll fire up the client and send some BTC. Keep the faith brothers! :D
Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: phelix on October 04, 2011, 06:56:25 PM you could link the bitcoin banner on your main page to http://weusecoins.org at the moment it does not link anywhere...
Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: lettucebee on October 05, 2011, 09:00:57 AM I sent some. Occupy Wall Street. Occupy everywhere.
Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: Litt on October 05, 2011, 12:42:52 PM up to a total of nearly BTC 100 donated in 1 week, I like how everyone can automaticaly see all of these donations too if they wish - an added bonus that prior forms of donating to things didn't have & that may appeal to other fund raisers - it's a bit like seeing the graphic of a thermometer that fills up to the target/s if set, like say 1,000 Btc to fix the church roof, 10,000 Btc to build a school house, etc http://blockexplorer.com/address/1EUqkFmL9HNpBRvbWRAqCiUjepaR7Vbryp This transparency in accounting is one of the qualities I love about bitcoin. I hope if the world accepts bitcoin one day, that all coorporate spending will be as transparent for all because the laws will require them to use a public address. That way we can keep them accountable. This goes the same with Gov't as well I suppose. The people need to be involved somewhere in this failing check and balance system that exists today. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: Amit@bitcoin-central.net on October 05, 2011, 02:49:38 PM +1
Paypal has also seen a decline in usage in India due to strict regulations. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: RodeoX on October 05, 2011, 04:00:49 PM Bitcoin sent! :)
Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: Sannyasi on October 05, 2011, 04:11:34 PM The thread linked below keeps track of the donations and the donation collector has 900+.... no offense intended, this forum just has too many scammers to take chances. Great links btw!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=45943.msg558034#msg558034 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=45943.msg558034#msg558034) Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: lettucebee on October 05, 2011, 04:17:46 PM I simply LOATHE paypal. It's another CIA/NSA front to track each and every one of us, part of the surveillance state and the monopoly money masters.
Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: evoorhees on October 05, 2011, 04:54:11 PM I simply LOATHE paypal. It's another CIA/NSA front to track each and every one of us, part of the surveillance state and the monopoly money masters. Yeah that... or it's just a large successful company trying to earn revenue and mitigate losses. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: RodeoX on October 05, 2011, 06:15:43 PM I simply LOATHE paypal. It's another CIA/NSA front to track each and every one of us, part of the surveillance state and the monopoly money masters. Yeah that... or it's just a large successful company trying to earn revenue and mitigate losses. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: evoorhees on October 05, 2011, 06:25:25 PM I simply LOATHE paypal. It's another CIA/NSA front to track each and every one of us, part of the surveillance state and the monopoly money masters. Yeah that... or it's just a large successful company trying to earn revenue and mitigate losses. Do you not do not exhibit the exact same behavior in your own affairs? Will you pay $5 for a sandwich if you can get the equivalent for $4? Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: RodeoX on October 05, 2011, 06:43:52 PM I simply LOATHE paypal. It's another CIA/NSA front to track each and every one of us, part of the surveillance state and the monopoly money masters. Yeah that... or it's just a large successful company trying to earn revenue and mitigate losses. Do you not do not exhibit the exact same behavior in your own affairs? Will you pay $5 for a sandwich if you can get the equivalent for $4? Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: Indemnified on October 05, 2011, 09:50:14 PM My message sent to Reader Supported News (http://readersupportednews.org/)
"Reader Supported News Reader Supported News This is a secure page. Your communication will be encrypted for your protection. Your message was successfully sent. In addition, a confirmation copy was sent to your e-mail address. Your message is shown below. I have sent you a donation because of your excellent coverage of Occupy Wall Street. However, in keeping with the spirit of Occupy Wall Street, I request that you set up to receive my future donations via bitcoin rather than Paypal." Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: Indemnified on October 06, 2011, 04:35:49 AM Interesting,
It's not easy for us to turn this boat on a dime, but I'll look into it. All the Best, Jonathan Site Designer, Technical Lead Reader Supported News On 10/5/2011 2:46 PM, martello_paul@yahoo.ca wrote: > I have sent you a donation because of your excellent coverage of Occupy Wall Street. However, in keeping with the spirit of Occupy Wall Street, I request that you set up to receive my future donations via bitcoin rather than Paypal. : Paul > Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: MoonShadow on October 06, 2011, 05:42:12 AM I have to admit, I still don't know what they stand for.
Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: Red on October 06, 2011, 04:52:13 PM I have to admit, I still don't know what they stand for. They promised to make "one demand" of President Obama. They said they would figure out what that one demand was once they all got together. I'm still waiting. I saw two separate proposals in the forum with tens of demands each. One was laughable. (Forgive all loans on the planet) The other had some sense to it. (Repeal this specific piece of legislation.) Until they can decide who they are, I'll just continue to giggle at the performance artist trying to be taken seriously. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: lettucebee on October 07, 2011, 02:53:12 AM Until they can decide who they are, I'll just continue to giggle at the performance artist trying to be taken seriously. Why do they need to boil their issue down to one? There is so much wrong with The System that no one issue will fix it. end the war on drugs, claw back the 20 trillion that bernanke "loaned" to foreign central banks and corporations, end the unlawful income tax, end personhood for corporations, end the Fed, correct the Citizens United ruling GMOs nuclear industry is killing everything end the patriot act end the forever wars I could go on for days. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: Red on October 07, 2011, 03:59:55 AM Why do they need to boil their issue down to one? There is so much wrong with The System that no one issue will fix it. http://www.adbusters.org/blogs/adbusters-blog/anonymous-joins-occupywallstreet.html Quote The beauty of this new formula, and what makes this novel tactic exciting, is its pragmatic simplicity: we talk to each other in various physical gatherings and virtual people's assemblies … we zero in on what our one demand will be, a demand that awakens the imagination and, if achieved, would propel us toward the radical democracy of the future … and then we go out and seize a square of singular symbolic significance and put our asses on the line to make it happen. The time has come to deploy this emerging stratagem against the greatest corrupter of our democracy: Wall Street, the financial Gomorrah of America. On September 17, we want to see 20,000 people flood into lower Manhattan, set up tents, kitchens, peaceful barricades and occupy Wall Street for a few months. Once there, we shall incessantly repeat one simple demand in a plurality of voices. Tahrir succeeded in large part because the people of Egypt made a straightforward ultimatum – that Mubarak must go – over and over again until they won. Following this model, what is our equally uncomplicated demand? Really, I didn't make up the "one demand" rule. It was part of the protest from the beginning. They didn't know what it would be when they started. They still don't know what it is. At least the Tea Party guys had demands like, "Write the laws down BEFORE you vote on them, so everyone can actually read what they are supporting or opposing." But not these guys. They want undying loyalty before they even decide what want. I don't know if I can get behind them yet. Maybe their demand is Obama start killing kittens? I simply have no idea. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: P4man on October 07, 2011, 08:34:58 AM Pretty sobering to see how few bitcoins have been donated for occupy wallstreet so far
Best I can tell: 187 BTC for the general assembly: http://blockexplorer.com/address/1Q7DQVTubbUqr5by2YoZJRKCEzj9D3LQ9w 173 for feed the protest. http://blockexplorer.com/address/1EUqkFmL9HNpBRvbWRAqCiUjepaR7Vbryp I suspect they've received worth more in tampons and socks. Common folks, Im sure most people here support the protest, donating bitcoins is the obvious thing to do. Surely you can miss 5 or 10BTC? Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: RodeoX on October 07, 2011, 01:39:53 PM Since this is an organic and spontaneous event it should not be a surprise that they have no articulated demands.
My guess is that more established lobby groups will try co-opting the movement with their own agendas. Like what happened to the tea party on the right. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: TiagoTiago on October 07, 2011, 01:52:50 PM ... nuclear industry is killing everything ... If i'm not mistaken, coal plants put out more radioactivity than nuclear plants; and the deathcount attributed to energy sources other than nuclear are way bigger... Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: onesalt on October 07, 2011, 02:05:48 PM ... nuclear industry is killing everything ... If i'm not mistaken, coal plants put out more radioactivity than nuclear plants; and the deathcount attributed to energy sources other than nuclear are way bigger... yep, coal is directly and indirectly attributed to more deaths than nuclear power has ever been. Oh also, Mods please don't delete my posts, I posted one in here and now it is gone because apparently you did not agree with my point that he didn't read the ToS or paypal about them being allowed to recoup losses incurred by fraud that is commited against you but whatever Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: onesalt on October 07, 2011, 02:12:01 PM oh wait it's because you foolishly made multiple copies of this exact thread with the same title and content and everything, which is bound to cause confusion.
Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: error on October 07, 2011, 05:13:55 PM Common folks, Im sure most people here support the protest, donating bitcoins is the obvious thing to do. Surely you can miss 5 or 10BTC? Actually I am sure most people here oppose the Occupy Wall Street protests. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: lettucebee on October 07, 2011, 06:04:05 PM I must say some of the things said on this thread are the most ridiculous I've ever heard.
Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: MoonShadow on October 07, 2011, 06:21:16 PM I must say some of the things said on this thread are the most ridiculous I've ever heard. You're going to have to be more specific. Regardless, you must not spend much time on the Internet. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: fennec on October 07, 2011, 06:48:50 PM Actually I am sure most people here oppose the Occupy Wall Street protests. Why? I'm not disagreeing; just curious. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: MoonShadow on October 07, 2011, 06:58:08 PM Actually I am sure most people here oppose the Occupy Wall Street protests. Why? I'm not disagreeing; just curious. I'm more or less on the fence, but I can guess as to what he is refering to. Most people here are libertarian leaning, to some degree or another. Such a political ideology, whether we agree with their greviences or not, doesn't tend to view groupthink, mob action, or popular group identity politics with much respect. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: MoonShadow on October 07, 2011, 07:27:15 PM Thanks for doing the research.
Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: error on October 07, 2011, 07:39:34 PM It's quite likely that many or most of the people actually protesting have no idea why they're there, what the solutions are or even what the problems are. It's quite a fertile field for finding people receptive to the message of liberty. I have absolutely no illusions about the organizers of these protests; they know exactly what they are doing, are quite hostile to liberty, and intend these protests as a springboard to go further down the socialist path.
Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: Indemnified on October 07, 2011, 08:07:03 PM It's quite likely that many or most of the people actually protesting have no idea why they're there, what the solutions are or even what the problems are. It's quite a fertile field for finding people receptive to the message of liberty. I have absolutely no illusions about the organizers of these protests; they know exactly what they are doing, are quite hostile to liberty, and intend these protests as a springboard to go further down the socialist path. I am of the opinion that an end to fiat currencies and a widespread adaptation of bitcoin as the medium of exchange would preclude a trip down the socialist path. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: lettucebee on October 07, 2011, 10:57:31 PM I must say some of the things said on this thread are the most ridiculous I've ever heard. You're going to have to be more specific. Regardless, you must not spend much time on the Internet. Well, we hear evoorhees defending paypal as just a successful company trying to scrape together a little more profit in the competitive capitalist jungle. And then Tiago saying that coal plants put out more radiation than nuclear plants. Paypal is an arm of the surveillance state, which I presume is just fine with evoorhees. It's honest profit, after all. They are a ridiculously tedious, unfair, user-hostile company that slaps their own customers around. I've personally been trying to change the email associated with an account of mine, which they've blocked, and I get no response from their systems, which appear to be designed to prevent customers from resolving issues. They deserve to disappear into the dustbin of history, which I hope bitcoin will do. Second, to tiago's statement, Wow. Do you really think after Chernobyl and Fukushima ANY other source could have spewed more radiation into the environment? This sounds so ridiculous I literally laughed when I read it. But I looked into it. Turns out Oak Ridge Lab says that coal plants put out more radiation when one compares a coal plant to a nuke plant that is operating normally. ("As a general clarification, ounce for ounce, coal ash released from a power plant delivers more radiation than nuclear waste shielded via water or dry cask storage.") But it is absolutely not true when you consider a nuke plant that has burned through its containment, burned a hole into the ground, mixed with ground water, and spewed tons of pure reaction metals into the ocean. Unbelievable. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: MoonShadow on October 07, 2011, 11:25:54 PM But it is absolutely not true when you consider a nuke plant that has burned through its containment, burned a hole into the ground, mixed with ground water, and spewed tons of pure reaction metals into the ocean. Unbelievable. Well, he never claimed to compare a coal plant running normally to that of a nuke plant in catastrophic breakdown of containment. It's rational enough to assume that he was comparing the average coal plant running normally to an average nuke plant running normally, and it's true. I've worked at both types of power plants in my career, and even without knowing that a coal plant releases more radioactive material into the environment in a year than a nuke plant (which I did know, as it's pretty common knowledge in the industry) I wouldn't want to live near a coal plant. Nothing grows within a quarter mile of the stack of Beckjord Powerhouse in SE Ohio, as it is the oldest running coal plant in America. And even if I lived in sight of a nuke plant, these days one can get a rapid warning alert for an android phone that would inform you immediately if the nuke plant were to ever enter into forced shutdown, etc. That said, if you take all of the radioactive material released by coal plants the world over, it's somewhat worse than a Chernobyl each year, it's just not so concentrated. People died from both the Chernobyl event and the Fukushima event due to the concentrations of lethal exposure. There were other effects from Chernobyl that could be debated, but the rates of cancer and birth defects were much lower than expected. You likely get more dosage from the concrete blocks of buildings that you work in and from medical screening than you would have simply because you lived 10 or 20 miles from either of these events. And no matter how the media presents it, Chernobyl was still a much worse environmental catastrophe than Fukushima. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: defxor on October 07, 2011, 11:38:55 PM Do you really think after Chernobyl and Fukushima ANY other source could have spewed more radiation into the environment? Yes, it's absolutely correct. You also need to separate different types of radiation and the half life. Radioactive particles released from coal plants are alpha emitters with long half lives. While Chernobyl was an excellent example of how you can purposely cause a non-civilian type of plant to melt down and create a radioactive cloud (graphite moderator burning) Fukushima is a completely different matter and didn't release anywhere near the same amount of particles. (None of the above is what anyone "thinks" btw. The physics is simple) Irrational fear of radioactivity is bad for you. People died from both the Chernobyl event and the Fukushima event due to the concentrations of lethal exposure Just to be clear, there are no deaths from radioactive exposure with regards to the Fukushima event. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: ctoon6 on October 07, 2011, 11:54:31 PM just to clear up any confusion with nuclear, it simply is not the solution.
the number 1 problem is what do you do with the waste. other than that i think nuclear is perfect safe, just not the waste, and because of that, i would never advise anyone to use it. of course if you have a cost effective solution please state it. and my on topic response i think this is really great. the current banking system does not work well. it has little to do with corruption, it simply is very difficult for consumers to use, 3 days+ for bank wires? thats just silly when you can have bitcoins securely transferred in 60 minutes. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: MoonShadow on October 07, 2011, 11:58:02 PM Just to be clear, there are no deaths from radioactive exposure with regards to the Fukushima event. I thought that there was one case of an overexposed plant employee who died after trying to help put out the coolant pool fire. I might be wrong, or he simply died of something other than radiation exposure. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: MoonShadow on October 08, 2011, 12:00:58 AM just to clear up any confusion with nuclear, it simply is not the solution. the number 1 problem is what do you do with the waste. other than that i think nuclear is perfect safe, just not the waste, and because of that, i would never advise anyone to use it. of course if you have a cost effective solution please state it. Actually there is. Search Wikipedia for the terms "thorium fuel cycle" and "energy amp". You will learn much. When you finish, consider the question, "In light of what is known and how Europe handles fission waste products, why does the US wish to establish the long term repository in Nevada?" Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: defxor on October 08, 2011, 12:02:51 AM the number 1 problem is what do you do with the waste. What we call "waste" from the reactors we mostly use is in reality 95% fuel. A modern reactor would continue to burn it until all is spent, and what would be left could easily be stored onsite (a few tonnes over the life time of the reactor) and would only be radioactive for hundreds of years instead of thousands. I thought that there was one case of an overexposed plant employee who died after trying to help put out the coolant pool fire. I might be wrong, or he simply died of something other than radiation exposure. The latter, I'm quite positive. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/07/fukushima-power-plant-worker-dies Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: MoonShadow on October 08, 2011, 12:07:51 AM The latter, I'm quite positive. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/07/fukushima-power-plant-worker-dies Not that I consider the Guardian a trustworthy source, but in the absence of counter-evidence, I shall consider myself duely corrected. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 08, 2011, 12:54:42 AM But it is absolutely not true when you consider a nuke plant that has burned through its containment, burned a hole into the ground, mixed with ground water, and spewed tons of pure reaction metals into the ocean. Unbelievable. Math isn't your strong suit? Given: x = radiation of coal plants collectively annually y = radiation of nuclear plants collectively annually z = average radiation of nuclear disaster n = number of years between major nuclear disasters (~26 years) If x*n > y*n + z then yes coal plants do collectively release more radiation than nuclear plants. IIRC it isn't that coal plants release a little more radiation than a nuclear plant but instead release MANY MULTIPLES more radiation. Those multiples of higher radiation over the course of decades at least has the potential to be more than "Z" Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: lettucebee on October 08, 2011, 01:25:44 AM But it is absolutely not true when you consider a nuke plant that has burned through its containment, burned a hole into the ground, mixed with ground water, and spewed tons of pure reaction metals into the ocean. Unbelievable. Math isn't your strong suit? You are indeed obnoxious. Anyway, Chernobyl caused a million deaths (http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/apr2010/2010-04-26-01.html) so far and Fukushima is an unprecedented failure of a nuclear reactor times 3. It will eventually kill many more people and it is far from over. At one point shortly after the explosions residents of Seattle were breathing air with ten hot particles per cubic meter. A hot particle is absorbed by the body which mistakes it for a nourishing mineral (hot particles don't occur naturally much at all so our bodies have no defense against them). The hot particle bombards surrounding tissue with products of radioactive decay and almost certainly will cause a cancer. To get hot particles out of the body one has to become savvy in how to detox. Regular heavy sweating is a great thing to do. Also, zeolite and bentonite clay attract charged particles in the gut and out they go. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: MoonShadow on October 08, 2011, 03:42:38 AM But it is absolutely not true when you consider a nuke plant that has burned through its containment, burned a hole into the ground, mixed with ground water, and spewed tons of pure reaction metals into the ocean. Unbelievable. Math isn't your strong suit? You are indeed obnoxious. Anyway, Chernobyl caused a million deaths (http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/apr2010/2010-04-26-01.html) so far and Fukushima is an unprecedented failure of a nuclear reactor times 3. It will eventually kill many more people and it is far from over. Sorry, but that's simply not true. Those numbers are based upon the assumption that anyone who dies from any form of cancer who lived within 100 or so miles downwind of the plant during the disaster, and likewise anyone who died from any other complication even loosely associated with radiation poisoning, died because of exposure to the radioactive material released. It's intelectually dishonest to assume that all such deaths were related, the cancer rates were slightly elevated in the monitored population. It probably is the root cause of thousands of deaths, but even so most of those people didn't lose very much off the average lifespan taken on aggregate. It was still a horrible disaster made worse by politics and poor engineering and technical response training, but the actual reduction of lifespan was far less than feared. Quote At one point shortly after the explosions residents of Seattle were breathing air with ten hot particles per cubic meter. It's probably that high right now. Asbestos is far more dangerous for human life at that concentration than airborne iodine (which is what is the real threat) of the same concentration. The solar wind produces more radioactive oxygen than that. Quote A hot particle is absorbed by the body which mistakes it for a nourishing mineral (hot particles don't occur naturally much at all so our bodies have no defense against them). The hot particle bombards surrounding tissue with products of radioactive decay and almost certainly will cause a cancer. You're speaking of iodine. We do have a simple defense such relatively low concentrations. Iodine pills. If the body doesn't need iodine, it won't try to assimulate more from food or any other source, and it will be ejected via urine. The risks of radioactive iodine is the length of time in close proximity to tissue. Moving iodine doesn't damage nearby tissues fast enough to trigger cancer. Quote To get hot particles out of the body one has to become savvy in how to detox. Regular heavy sweating is a great thing to do. Also, zeolite and bentonite clay attract charged particles in the gut and out they go. And seaweed tofu. It was a regular breakfast ration for the Japanese doctors and nurses in the humanitarian effort following the bombing of Japan. Knowing nothing about radiation poisoning at the time, logic would have suggested that their rate of cancers would be significantly elevated in the following years, but it was not. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: MoonShadow on October 08, 2011, 04:02:44 AM This is a perfect example of the level of sense these people have..
"Emissions from this one reactor exceeded a hundred-fold the radioactive contamination of the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki." Anyone with any rational sense would have to ask, "how could that be?" for those bombs were intended to be released into the immediate environment completely while not all, not even a lot, of the core of Chernobyl escaped into the air via the graphite fire. Almost none would have even then if they hadn't used graphite as their moderator. One of the reactors at Chernobyl was still producing power 10 years later, which also means that there were plant workers still at the site. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: ineededausername on October 08, 2011, 04:09:29 AM Ugh... I feel the need to remind people that radiation is not additive; that is, concentrated radiation is lethal, and if all the background radiation were added together it would be enough to kill millions of people. That doesn't mean background radiation is bad.
Why don't you stop eating bananas!? Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: ctoon6 on October 08, 2011, 08:10:27 AM Ugh... I feel the need to remind people that radiation is not additive; that is, concentrated radiation is lethal, and if all the background radiation were added together it would be enough to kill millions of people. That doesn't mean background radiation is bad. Why don't you stop eating bananas!? yep yep, and one of the most expensive ways to make things not radioactive is to mix a ton of inert material into the radioactive material in such a way that it will be difficult to get back out. Title: Re: Paypal Strikes Again, This is an Opportunity for BTC to Prove its Value Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 08, 2011, 08:25:04 PM Code: [quote author=lettucebee link=topic=46790.msg562596#msg562596 date=1318037144] When the US stopped building nuclear power plants we started ..... building coal plants. Millions of people killed over junk science fears about nuclear energy. BTW the largest energy disaster in the history of mankind.... not Chernobyl, not Fukashima, not 3 mile island. It was a hydro electric plant in China called Banquiao. Estimated 171,000 casualties (3x Chernobyl). I am not saying we should ban hydro but all forms of energy production have danger. More people die from solar (yup people falling off roofs) than nuclear energy. However one solar installer faling off the roof doesn't make a news story. OF course to produce the power from a single nuclear power plant requires tens of millions of solar plant installs and the combined deaths of all those installations do add up.[/code] |