Bitcoin Forum

What is the fate of miners if the price of coins gets worse?
Will Crypto stop this year?

 :'( :'(

Just look at the ETH difficulty, its dropping but not massively.

I am assuming many with power > 0.10kwh are shutting down their rigs, and those that are mining are doing it out of speculation because they think ETH will hit $1000 again and BTC might go back to $20K.

Crypto won't stop because many have either free or very cheap electricity and those miners will still be mining. Basically go look at the difficulty charts of 2014-2015 when the BTC Price took a massive hit and the difficulty exploded upwards.

I have read with some news thats GPU can mining again on ETH, so many miner buying asic to change their hardware, and hash war between bch abc and bch sv crash down bitcoin price,,its mining profitable right now?

GPU can mine ETH but if ETH price lower than 300 USD i think it can not profit for miner.

the smart ones are the ones buying eth at this price $140 coming next year or 2020 eth price will jump 20 times, eth $3000 easy sell and a possible $8000 in 2020/2021.

I believe in the same vision that is why I have not turned my miners down but also I bought 2 Ethereums yesterday which I will conserve on my Ledger Nano. If our predictions come true I will be a very happy person after 2-3 years.

Meanwhile I have high energy costs but I still mine at a loss believing in a brighter future for cryptocurrencies.

I agree.  I have a ton of machines and I am not buying ETH because I mine for it.  If you are not mining yet and your DON'T buy eth at these prices and decide to buy equip and mine, you are not smart.

Lots of ICO's still need to sell off their Eth so it could drop even lower

Wait. Not smart by paying more for less?

Look if you are not making money then running your gear shortens there lifespan and you get less than what you would have gotten if you took the power cost and bought eth.

Best thing to do when you get under the power cost is to turn off your gear and then buy Eth at the amount you would have had to put in to keep your system running. Or if you are not cashing out at all then invest all of the power cost to buy eth. that way you get more eth. you support the price and provide up pressure.

Miners with cheap electricity are still making a profit.  Don't be upset because you got squeezed out by living in an area with high electricity costs.  This is how free markets work.  Difficulty will just adjust anyways so there will always be some miners making profit or else no one would even mine.

However, some people do mine at a loss because they don't want a paper trail of buying coins or they don't have access to fiat gateways.

Yes, but only experienced a decline in profits. The lucky miners are those who have electricity and free Internet access, If so, you get full profits. [lol]

If you undervolt a lot and with cheap electricity, it is still profitable, but marginally.

There's always going to be a group of miners that will remain profitable- that's just how mining works, and difficulty adjustments will make things more profitable eventually. Mining will always continue on major cryptocurrencies, as even if people stop mining, difficulty will eventually correct itself to make mining profitable again, and blocks will continue to be mined.

I've personally chosen to turn off essentially all my mining rigs and I am currently just purchasing and holding cryptocurrencies. Many others on this subforum have chosen to do the same. Just keep in mind that if you're mining at a loss, you're essentially buying coins at market price plus electrical and maintenance fees- not an ideal situation.

I'm still running my A9's on NiceHash picking up 10-15 bucks a day per, but then I have .08 KwH and they also heat my place. If they drop below $5 a day I will think about giving them a rest if and until price and difficulty rebound.

I wish I had some of you guys faith in Ether. I'm not sure I believe the "use" case of crypto anymore as it may be easy for some of you to comprehend and use, but any crypto is a near impossibility for Ma and Pa Kettle to use in any event, and mass adoption is what would be needed to drive price. I think part of this latest selloff is big money's realization of that.

Crypto as a store of value makes more sense but it is a weak argument considering the volatility. I guess the same could be said of gold, the standard store of value which has also been historically volatile, so I am questioning all of my cherished beliefs right now. I parked my BTC in my USD wallet at $5800 and avoided the bloodbath but am unsure if I will ever put the cash at risk again.

thats not actually true. I am basically mining at a loss now with the latest dumps, but getting free heating, im making around 0.00025 day btc using 300w and at 0.113 kwh means im basically buying btc at 3250€, thats cheaper than the 3900€ its at now.

I was able to sell my last 2 rigs as complete rigs so I was able to get a little extra. I'm in the red from a fiat standpoint but but still have more crypto than had I bought eth at $70, so until that point I'm ahead.

Like I said, this was and is going to be a bad November for crypto. I don't see any positive movement happening until maybe Q2 of next year.

Hopefully AMD's 7nm consumer cards will be out by then.

Ya miners are one tough sons of a b*tches group. Price of eth dumps 10x but hashrate only dumps 10 percent.

Mining will live on. Just everyone gets fractions of a peanut profits if any.

You're correct, but not everybody mines for free heating, though it is true that mining for heat and crypto can be a viable option. It's been a relatively mild winter where I live, but for those who live in cooler environments this is absolutely a viable option. For those who don't mine for heat, though, if you're mining at a loss, you're better off buying coins.

90% of eth miners are mining at loss, 9% are breaking even and 1% is earning peanuts per day with their gpus. The hashrate difficulty is proof that people believe eth will rise in the coming months a lot cause most of them are losing money mining it, best thing is just buy the coin and wait for 2020/2021.

How can you say that crypto will stop this year? At first bitcoin's price was some cents and it was doing well, last year we had 600$ and still it was doing well, there is no way to say that bitcoin has problem with current 4K usd price. Yeah, this is fall which we don't want to see, I talk not only about bitcoin but on another altcoins, as you know they follow btc.
Miners will keep their job and for this reason they will need price which will be enough to get them at least a little bit profit. Then it's a matter of task when price will rise. It will happen anyway because we want it.

The price is really not the only factor in this race. The hashrate on the network also should be taken into account when counting profitability of a coin. So if the majority of hashrate drops out, then it starts being profitable again.

Kudos to gpu miners who are still mining. I have stop my mining rig and buying eth instead as I'm making about 0.5eth/mth only and based on current price, I'm spending about 1eth/mth on electricity.
So, instead of paying my Electric Co, I'm buying eth direct. Might buy more if price dip further. Will definite restart mining if price goes up.

Anybody mining in the USA all of 2018 is at a real total loss on accounting. Most miners do not sell right away to fiat so you owe the IRS lots of money if you mined and hodled.  Since the. Value of the coins dropped 6x on mining that means your 6x short on giving the irs their cut. Irs wants the value  of the coins you mined that day. Your options is to buy 6x more coins to pay off the IRS or sell all your mined coins at a loss and clear out your accounting before end of year.

Congrats  2018 mining losers. You screwed yourself over

the vast majority of people who post here are hobby miners that control little of total hash, the big farms with near zero electricity cost control most of the hash and are still making profit, they will be the last ones standing.

there are also small miners with access to free power (usually at the expense of someone else) that will also survive, these guys can't scale tho

what separates this bull run with the last one is the industrialization of mining, i recall stories of farms buying gpu's by the plane load for example
you also have fpga/asics continuously improving

"Still making profit " is not enough to stay profitable. There are much bigger factors at play and not as simple as what most of you think.  There is a lot that many of you have not accounted for or speak of much.

You still need to pay off equipment which is 3+ years and by then theirs better equipment you got to rebuy so your never making real profit. You end up with more oudated shovels.

 Once you add IRS accounting that's pretty much nail in the coffin full loss. They want 1/3 of the profit the day you mined it. And if you didn't sell right away and the value dropped like it is now your at 6x loss deep in the hole with no way out but to sell all your mined coins at a full loss.

Im quite sure a lot if you were mining eth at $400 and higher and zcash at $200 and higher and still bag holding. Big mistake when doing your mining taxes

I am pretty sure that there are a ton o people who are buying mining equipment right now, and they are doing it bec thay are smart.
Also, i think we can get lower than this right now and if the bear market continues and prices go lower you will se a flood of equipment dumped into the market that will be way to cheap not to buy it.

However, compared to last year, it was possible that BTC would rise again. hopefully it will happen.

you can't compare with last year  world economic not same like this year.

i think BTC will rise at Q2 2019

pretty sure most (early)farms would have ROI'd a many many times already in the bull run, and now its just pure profit. basically if you got in before 2018 you're break even or better, those late to the party... well their risk didn't pay off

i've also read of rumors of much more efficient ETH asics which Bitmain could already be running

my impression is most of the hash power is outside the US, in places like EU Russia China, could be wrong tho

If they mine and sell is worse cause price will sway to crash due to that, if they hold they win in the long term but as you said the tax problem screw anybody over, only idiots sell at these prices, how these prices have become a reality is beyond me. I myself thought eth would never crash lower than 300 usd and i was wrong too on 2015 when btc crashed to $200. I thought $400 would hold, i guess while bulls are pumping coins, prices rise more than we can ever think about and when it crashes is the same thing.

I think the reason why ETH crashed so hard is due to the liquidations on that DAI Maker market. Basically <$150 or so, there were massive liquidations.

I remember reading about DAI back at the beginning of the year and people were basically buying BMWs on leverage pretty much because everyone assumed that ETH will keep increasing in value.

This is similiar to what happened to the subprime loan crisis in USA about a decade ago.

I was checking some websites in the micro earnings section and pro typers I saw that they paid in litecoin and a minimum payment was only 1 dollar but in litecoin 1 is a good amount of ktc right now. I just started working yesterday and hioe to earn litecoin easily. Any body else taking profit in this way of price crash ?

My miners are on but I like to accumulate crypto in anyway I can.

Actually You count the day it was "mined" versus when you cashed it out. This would then count as A LOSS. Therefor taxes would be low-none. If you never cashed it out, then it's not a taxable event.(They also have no way of telling how much ETH/BTC/ETC your holding). Crypto is only a taxable event when you cash out for FIAT because money for that new lambo had to come from somewhere and I doubt any of us are drug dealers  ::)


I've personally downsized my farm of 170~ GPUs completely selling off all my AMD gpus and sticking to Nvidia. Contrary to what everyone believes I sold them all within a month. Gamers want cheap RX 580s I sold them for 120(4GB) to 165 (8GB) on Fleabay.


I checked my rates and Mining is still profitable for me @ .10Kw Even ETH(barely) but I'm mining RVN and going to try SUQA. It annoys me that SRQL is so far behind in Acorns because they're suppose to reduce power as well.

Not sure about how the US tax system works, where I live is just like you said, is only taxable if you convert to a government currency. As long as you hold then they can never tax you, and if you buy and hold is the same thing, only taxable when you convert it.

I'm sure crypto won't close just because of that.The miners can still get profit with certain tricks. After all, not all miners have difficulty getting electricity. Coin prices don't always go down, it will definitely go up too.

next eth asics will make mining eth at loss if you sell for less than $1200, this happened to bitcoin while back. The asics will be so powerful and they will make millions of them hehe, difficulty will be 100 times what is today. Keep selling your eth for $150 trolls hehe

today ETH is 130$ maybe going to 110-120

Yes, getting electricity is easy, but electricity costs are very high when compared to income in mining. Indeed the price of coins doesn't always go down but when you buy hardware for now...and...then take ROI will be like a dream.

Preparing for next mining profit wave after year or two.

it hard to cover electricity bill for 1-2 year.

if price not rise up in 3 month a lot of miner will stop mining.

$120 now, i want to see where this nonsense will stop, one thing i will say, when this is over and bulls start pumping eth again to $xxxx levels then we will see many people saying why i did not buy eth when it was $120.

$118!

I just bought some :)

Buying like crazy right now! this is a GOLDEN opportunity.

As hard as it may seem it is better to sacrifice during this time and limit yourself a little bit in spendings because I believe the reward after one year or two will be huge. Many persons believe the price of bitcoin to be 35.000 dollars during May 2019 so I think it is worth any sacrifice anybody will make.

How many have you bought recently?

Certainly a lot easier to buy than mine ETH at the moment. It's now about 1ETH per 2nd hand RX gpu, so ignoring electric costs, you'd need to spend about 15ETH to get 1ETH a month back.

Shutting down of the mining farms because of the disadvantage of mining has already begun. This can be seen in reducing the hashrate and mining difficulty of many popular cryptocurrencies, such as Ether, Bitcoin, Litecoin, and others. Apparently, mining as a mass phenomenon has already outlived its time.

*shrugs* This isn't a question for me until April. Mining will ALWAYS be more profitable than running my heater, so...

NOooooo!!!  That is totally incorrect.  Please do not spread inaccurate information messing up peoples accounting.

https://ttlc.intuit.com/questions/4138638-how-do-i-report-cryptocurrency-mining-income

from turbo tax USA laws
"When you mine the coins, you have income on the day the coin is "created" in your account at that day's exchange value."

The 2nd red text I highlighted is also incorrect.  If you trade an alt coin for another alt coin that's a taxable event for 2018.  You can't use like kind exchange anymore, the irs made it only specific to real estate and not crypto.

Your first sentence is correct but is another separate taxable event for the day you mined and the day you cash out.

Also remember when you sell your equipment that's taxable.  IRS wants that also to offset the equipment deductions they gave you.

So what does this all mean.  If you mined 1 zcash at $400 dollars that's all taxable income.  If the value drops to what it is now $78. You just lost over 5x value.  You still owe taxable income on that $400 dollars so if your taxable income rate is at 25 percent, that means you owe the IRS $100 dollars for their cut but the value of your 1 zcash you mined early on the year is now only worth $78.  Congrats you made a dumb move by deciding to mine for all of 2018 in the red.

Your only way to get out of this is to sell some of your mined coins at a loss at full capitulation prices to REALIZE the lost.  If your in the usa and you mined for all of 2018 and hodl then your at a BIG LOSS when doing your mining taxes!


Mining not all fun and games.  There's a lot of record book keeping and tax accounting involved and risk

so for them you have to sell your coins everyday at current price, for them you must not hold anything, and if you decide to hold then is a gamble, if the coin your mined is at $1200 and then it rises to $2000 and then you sell then by your example you will have to pay the tax based on the $1200, $800 is profit, now if the price crashes to $120 like now then you will have to pay by your own pocket $1080, so if tax = 10% then based on the $1200, you will have to sell your eth and pay the $120 as tax with it hehe.

I'm glad, i live in a country where I only pay tax when i sell something. If I buy 1 billion dollar of eth then they will tax me only when i sell it and they will charge me 15%. If I dont sell then they will never tax me.

All market is not a good position. Everywhere Blood and Bleeding. Depending on the price vs electricity charge, I think mining not profitable mainly in our country.

You're not really wrong, but:

A) whether or not they are correct, NEVER RELY ON TURBO TAX FOR INFORMATION. If you earn more than $50K/year, they are a bad choice, and if your supplemental income from mining is substantial, get an accountant.

B) there is absolutely no way that the IRS is asking for value at time of realization, because it would bankrupt them to calculate that rate for a handful of miners, much less all. Market fluctuations are constant, and you mine in increments every second. No way they can determine that, and no way they can audit every single miner to determine fraud. Again, talk to an actual accountant about what you may or may not owe.

You take a monthly average of the coin cost(you can do daily if you want but so far its not needed).  Let's say 100 low - 200 high.  Avg monthly mining is 150.  If you sell the coin for 120 then you take a -30 cap gain hit.  

I am 100% sure on this as I have been audited.  ASK YOUR ACCOUNTANT anyway.

Also they ruled that crypto IS property and not subject to wash rules.  I just did that to take a neg equity hit because prices are so low.  That means I sold all my coin at a loss and rebought them all a few min later.  Perfectly legal.  Wash rules apply to stocks etc, you have to wait 30 days to rebuy.

I already shut down my rigs, I know mining for hodl might be still a very good strategy, but I simply can't effort the electricity for my rigs at the moment, the problem is that the whole market in a very bad condition and no extra money to pay the mining chares and don't sell the mined EThereum so I just had to shut the rigs down. If I was able to cover my expenses I would not shut it down. The situation will differ from one miner to another, some will continue and some others like me will be forced it shut it down for now.

Thanks this is good advice, from a man that runs a farm and speaks from experience.  I'll probably do something similar when doing my taxes

We have so much in common at the moment. When I decided to shut down my Rigs because I'm faced with the electricity bills and I still want to hodl the entire coin (ETH and BTG) that I mined and not even think to sell some coins to cover the electricity cost.

But it's not my final decision I've made. Sometimes when I found a good one coin, I'll mine them for a short period and take the immediate profit in those days.

This is bad advice...

Any bitcoin gained through mining is taxed as ordinary income, based on the “fair market value” of the bitcoin at the date it was received.

Read the irs publication on mining..  anyone who has mined and held is at a huge loss in 2018

Electricity cost is 70-80% of revenue now. 15 cents daily profit on my 1080ti aren't covering depreciation of ~50 cents a day.

Next month I'll start liquidating them eth isn't above $200.

Well if we break $100 ETH we will probably drop to $60 in short order. Altcoin mining is pretty much dead at this point, the only hope you can have is that the bottom get put in soon and the markets start to recover.

If you are a miner it is best to just turn off your rigs for now and see how the market reacts in the next month or two. Hopefully some of the bigger miners go bankrupt during this period to allow some of these coin difficulties to come back down to reasonable levels.

if bitcoin goes lower. bitcoin can be 51%..... no doubt. people gonna swap there machines to the most profit.

and a couple Chinese people hitting that big red button a few times can also happen. for fun lol.
that would make me cry of laughter and joy.
as i would be winning either way.
hope you all buying the "right" coins. on this way down.

and if you think it will end.
HAA


think again.

( i can only say this cause i found the train of shill accounts. i see what they are up to.)

there is greed building inside me little by little...i don't know why...  :D

It probably has something to do with the fact you subscribe to the Warren Buffet “Be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful” philosophy.

Also similar to Baron Rothschild's "the time to buy is when there's blood in the streets" mentality. Both men are famous for making their fortunes in the stock market, so probably good advice to follow.

Myself, I think the fear and blood levels are still a bit lower, but even if you are beginning to accumulate some coins now I don't think you will need to wait too long for at a minimum a relief rally.

Not even in 2015 when manipulators showed idiots bitcoin was done for, the fall was not as bad than it is right now, $1200 ath and crashed to $200, that is 6 times, right now from ath of $21k, price is $3600 x 6 = 21k, using the history, btc can't crash any further. This is the bottom cause there is no news telling bitcoin is dead like it was in 2015 or any mt.gox spreading fear or anything like it was in 2015. So anything happening right now means solely manipulative and the same people doing this will be the ones buying bitcoin till it hits 100k and then they will crash it to 20k in few years and they will do the same crap over and over.

There is more room for down yet, don't count on history being an exact match for picking your bottom.

could be, could be not...either way i would like to point out that the last bottom has these points

- bitcointalk was a wasteland, people left.

- no youtube clowns appearing and twitter twats.

- asic manufacturers are not manufacturing

- exchanges closing, exchanges exit scamming, exchanges listing shitcoins by the dozens to get more fees to survive

...and today adoption is not like it was back then so we may not hit that kind of surrounding/atmosphere again, nonetheless we are close i think.

Mining is dead temporally

See that is my point, before manipulators used those things to crash bitcoin, right now there is nothing that could be the reason for bitcoin to crash and yet it has been crashing since a very very stable price of 6700 usd. There must be a manipulative scheme in which they take bitcoin's price to these levels and keep until they fill their wallets and then they start pumping 30% daily for a week and then stop and keep at 20% and so on. 2018 the ath and the fall of bitcoin, 2019, starting mid December, i think, bitcoin will be pumped, 10k again? April 2019 I believe and the objective is bitcoin at $90k.

Of course, you are mining by faith.


I recommend you to dig some SCC(ANN post is posted by me), after all, SCC is the most potential project I can find.

The undervalued currencies, at the beginning, are often at a loss at mining.

i bet this market will die for a large amount of reasons.

i´ll give you some of them

1º If you knew for a fact, that the price of an asset is going to skyrocket eventually, wouldn't you buy right now?? Noone IMPORTANT, is buying the coins, just hamsters. If you think a market like this can pump by very few people buying 2-10 coins...you are mad.

2º if you were interested in buying, because you think it will skyrocket, why would you believe that you aren't going to buy since you think it will go lower??

3º The situation of crypto like the one in 2018 has never ever happened before. And this has many reasons:

a) Governments want to absolutely control people investing in crypto, because this governments want your money to give it to their own voters. So, every money that goes for crypto, is lost to some extent from the control. So laws, legislations and taxes are absolutely there to provide the tools necessary to CONTROL EVERYBODY. tHIS SITUATION NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE. That's why the market cannot recover

b) Banks, are also dealing with this matter. Not only because most of them have bought debt from this governments, but also because the less money they get to invest and get profit, the less money they can lend to governments. Every dollar that is invested in crypto, is a dollar from which banks cannot win money from. So they will force every inch they can to destroy crypto as a way of bypassing the system, exactly like governments.

c) the end of anonimity is already here. Both banks and governments are cooperating together to share information of how to deal with this people investing, and how to get him into problems as much as possible so that they get discouraged to do it again.

d) the end of decentralization is also here. Big players can manipulate a market that was first created to try to benefit a hole community. Miners are specifically destroyed by the end of this principle, since big companys with low to almost 0 electricity cost are getting the honey while you get shit. 50% of the total power hashrate in the bitcoin pool is in China. I don't consider that as a decentralization. And if you are intelligent enough, you won't do it also.

4º BTC was created to ensure the transition to another way of dealing with money. Nowadays, BTC has failed miserably to engage a fight against real money. More over, not a single coin is telling the community how much money they are making with their software and how many projects are dealing with them. ETH is the most opaque coin of all. They've never said info about projects or money.

What if ETH was valued 20 times more in an speculative market, than in real money performance??? Would you buy anything in this world that people say costs 20 times more than what is actually worth???

5º and for me, the most important idea, that i believe will destroy this market , is that the technology of many coins is useless. Why? because no important COMPANY OR ENTERPRISE will want to share their own data with a third party company that could sell that info to others. That's why many many many companys are building their own coins.

In the future, almost all companys will have, support, and share their own coins, specifically design to fit their activities without having to trust a system that can crash 20% a day, or that can even lose 95% of value in just 12 months.


For me this market is absolutely dead. the problem is that those in don't know it, and investors and holders will never accept it.  

Even if we are near bottom or in the despair stage. There's gonna be a period of accumulation and slow growth for all of 2019.

Can you miners survive these low to negative profitablity for another year at least? Most won't. I see miners are still too optimistic and haven't felt enough pain yet. Profitablity therefore will drop more and drag out for multiple years. I bet miners will not last that long and give up in 6 more months. Their dreams of Moon and lambos will be shatteter and  recovery taking longer than they want like multiple years. Eth hash rate finally decreasing some but not enough yet to justify mining

today, all miners with electricity cost about 0.08$/kW are losing money. Not much, just about 5$ per month. But i don't think it's profitable unless you think this market will recover, which i don't think it will happen.

 I'm mining with my 32 nvidia gpus 10 series at a colo facility.  Pretty much breaking even after electric/host cost or maybe losing a little.  I'll let that run till it drives itself into the ground.

Ya time to get a new hobby in order to mentally take my mind off crypto and let mining be a passive thing

I've got a new 8se celestron telescope and thinking of fixing up muscle cars again.

maaaaaaaaan
Belief.

this is the problem.

people who believe in crypto. bend so easy to the imaginary price.

im looking at bitcoins and seeing how many other shits i can get without regards to value.

i don't "believe" in crypto.
i just "know" facts.

i know there will be a return.
and i don't wanna hear that how do you know bs, i know because this has happened before.  
even if.. even if ........ btc hit 2k, thats a much higher launching pad from the previous crashes that wiped it out. over and over.

people fear time the most. because thats all you need to do.. buy and give that thing time a try.
it doesn't matter what you payed. it's what you sell for. make your moves and go with the green.
if it's long term holds, make sure the projects are sound that you invest with.
keep in mind people are being thrown bitcoins right now. lots of them.
and if people were not "buying them" the price right this second would be 0.
however bitcoins are being sold, and this war seems to be more then just a lil bump. it's gonna cleanse out all the fake no money shit, and scams gonna jump ship due to the loses.

after the death, we will see mass adoption and a rise like no other. however these two shit heads with 100,000's of bitcoins duking it out can tank the price, but that's a lot of cash needed to own that much coin. lets be real here.   so people who are worried or having issues with mining need to know this is a phase and it may be a couple year or who knows recovery, but the fact remains supplies get smaller and smaller. and buyers are accumulating vast amounts right now. no doubt.. if they are not. then like i said.. shit would be going for 0. but when u throwing so many coins, then yeah the price needs to drop at some point. supply vs demand. and right now, it's a surplus sell order... were at fucking war here if you didn't notice it. and 1 coin is bleeding it raw.

my miners getting better returns then ever before. my electricity is not up. it's not down. its the same as it was 8 months ago. but 8 months ago i making 50% less coins then im making right now, yet i wasn't bitching then about how lil i was making cause the VALUE was there. but now. the value is not and im making more.  ............ so im actually fucking happy, cause i know where the price has been. and where i will see it again no fucking doubt. so balls to the wall do or die, im mining and i can afford my elec bill. thats the obvious thing you should all be doing. build the farm. set money aside for elec for 12 months. don't follow market, that shit is chaos.. and at the end of the road, it doesn't matter the ups and downs. it matters what you sell for , and how many of these fucking coins you can get in your pocket without them fucking leeches in the world getting to you.

Need to see a massive dump on huge volume followed by a huge rise on high volume.  This has worked for my trading over the past 20 myears in stockd and comoities.

I’m mining on .049 cent eketricty but it still sucks no fun right now.  Better off buying coin right now, I’m waiting like a vulture for blood to flow before I buy.  Very high negyivety is must with most people giving up when they can’t see a recovery.

i wanna see it all at 1 satoshi. so i can gobble it all up. this is the best time to eject on all the fluff crypto's. more dumping is at hand here. more accumulation.

the more SV remains on the plus. the more everything will die. 80 dollar eth inc. time to stock up!

Can you please elaborate why bitcointalk was a wasteland? And where did people go, to other alternative discussion site about cryptocurrency?

no ones talking anywhere but in private rooms. its all dead. small projects with fanboys are the only thing talking and all they doing is crying. the rest is a desert. with dino's running around.

The manipulators already started buying their cheap coins and will stay around these levels till they see is the time to pump bitcoin to 50k or 100k, unless somebody comes with lots of money to change the paradigm, i dont see manipulators pumping bitcoin to above 5k, they want this price to stay, so they can fill their wallets till the next bullrun. $3474 was the bottom.

For anyone wondering, here is the actual IRS guidance:  https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf    There is a shitload of confusion on this, and this is unsurprising considering the guidance from the IRS is over 4 years old and only 7 pages long.  It doesn't even begin to address the current mining or trading environment.  It is indeed taxed by fair market value on the day you receive it.  It is also taxed with capital gains and losses when traded.  Its easiest to think of it like this scenario:  You have a business with various customers (the mining pools).  Instead of payment in cash you agree to get paid in comic books.  Now obviously you can't operate a business and have zero tax liability just because you aren't getting paid in dollars.  I'm sure this trick has been tried numerous times in history.  So your tax liability is based on the market value of those comic books at the time of payment.  When you sell those comic books or trade them for other comics, you are charged capital gains if the comics you sold appreciated in value, and can claim capital loses if they have gone down further.  Of course there is also tons of write-offs like hardware, labor, electricity,etc.

The bottom line is that if you have a mining business, keeping your earnings in crypto is pure speculation.  Leaving it all in is putting all of your eggs in one basket.  For any of this stuff to be applicable to the forum members, I would say they would truly have to have a mining business.  Like the guy who built a data center or someone with employees.  Otherwise there is really no way for the IRS to know, which is the beauty of crypto, it skirts the system.  But like everything, there is a paper trail so you might have to deal with getting creative when cashing out.

We can presume that this might the bottom and it cant go down further but it isnt really still a sure thing.It can breakout anytime just like on the times when
we do talk that 5k -6k is the bottom and look at we now on our current position.


1 satoshi then we can presume that all crypto people did vacate into other field.

If you are into crypto then you probably know that everything will be rising starting march 2019 and when things start rising then you must understand that like the dump of 10 times, the pump will be 3 x 10 times or maybe 5 x 10 times or so and we can expect in 18 months or so till the next crash, last time bitcoin started rising for real, it was $300 and the highest till it started crashing was 21k, that was 21000/300 = 70 times or 7000%, i have a feeling bitcoin will reach 100k in 2020/2021. So from now, that will be a 30 times only from 3.5k but it might reach even greater than that cause like the crash, the pump is also extreme, maybe a pump to 200k and then a crash to 35k.

metroid is using math for his future sight. shits on point :)

Nobody knows for sure what will happen next; many people are disgusted with crypto and have been badly burned.

If anyone would be sure the market will rebound 70 times they would buy now - well, that's not happening.

I fear the bottom will be lower this time and the rebound much more difficult - if there will ever be a rebound.

Been trading for 20 years and the best time to buy is with extremely high negativity.  I'm not saying its the bottom, but the more negativity we get the better.  The more news reports about doom and the more pole give up the better.  Also holds true for tops, BTC 500,000 or i'll cut off my dick, lol.

just think about how much BTC you can buy now if you sold BTC at 15k and above? we are venturing to around x5 amount of BTC.

if you sold 5 BTC back then, now you can have 25 BTC...kinda venturing to irresistible levels now, from my point of view..

if you sold at 16k and bought back at 2k (if ever we got there), that's x8 amount of BTC...if you sold 5 BTC back then you can now get 40 BTC...now that's a winner hehe

if you are starting to buy now and average down if BTC goes down more...you'll never loose

if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

 :P

No if my grandma had balls she’d be my grandad

Now.... :D

Just let metroid multiply that to 35k or 100k or 200k...voila, your aunt and grandma will now be a huge ball like the moon.  :D

Like it or not, this is a good thing.

As much as I hate to say it, crypto needs a purge from all the shitcoins and clueless people that are in it for the quick-buck or get-rich-quick scheme. Those that have been badly burned have been warned countless times by a phrase that has become to motto of many crypto-enthusiasts: don't put in more than you're willing to lose. This is one fact that has always remained true.

And lets be honest, what crypto is today, isn't what satoshi had envisioned. Bitcoin was supposed to facilitate the sending of money worldwide and everyone was supposed to be able to participate. Instead it has become a giant ogre of speculation where the big bucks hold the bag over the little guy, ready to take a shit on them. The network is ruled by giant asic farms and there is no decentralization.

I'll give you my personal thought on all this: crypto is here to stay. There's no way around it. I don't really understand why the market took a plunge and there are many theories around it. I'll just hodl what I have an patiently wait for things to settle down and pick up again as they always do.

Let's not forget that the global trend of Bitcoin has always been upwards. Just because we are seeing a correction now doesn't invalidate that fact. Even at 1000$ this remains true.

It is 2015 all over again! You are 100% correct, IMHO: crypto isnt going away, just hitting the down side of the cycle.

Lily

Yep, 2015 all over again as you say.

And I don't mean to be some sort of revolutionary crazy person with what I'm about to say, but here it is:

Looking at the current financial system worldwide, it is evident that things are going to go to shit again sooner or later. The average Joe (by that I mostly mean the middle class man/woman) isn't able to keep their head above the water any longer. There are more and more working poors who are giving away what little they earn in taxes and other things like health insurance or education for their kids for instance. They struggle to make ends meet. Meanwhile the rich get richer because they can and the poor can't get any poorer anyway.

2008 was just a small wave in comparison to the tsunami that is coming. Who helped keep the banks afloat after the shitstorm 10 years ago? The governments. And who is more in debt today than ever before? The governments, again. The next big crisis will be that of governments (we're already seeing it, look at Venezuela or Greece). And once that happens, those governments will raise taxes and whatnot to keep afloat. This is when people will massively turn to crypto once again, when they are just at a point where they can't take it anymore, as big fuck you to the people they elected to make things better.

Call me crazy but it just makes sense to me.

I would say all this is true except for your last part about people turning to crypto, crypto is heavily owned by the big corporations right now , at least the top 10 coins.  unless you are suggesting new coins that are more decentralized in ownership will pop up , another 2008 with a switch to crypto benifits the banksters and top percent too

This 100%.

Miners still need to feel the pain, too many are mining "at a loss", or at best breakeven, as they think the recovery is right around the corner and in 6 months we will be back at ATH. No, we will need the next year to find the true bottom and for the big boys to accumulate, and probably another year after that for prices to recover and start slowly climbing. This is basically the 2013-2016 playbook all over again.

I think the biggest problem most miners, and almost all traders, on here have is they are relatively small potatoes in the scheme of things. The big investors have plenty of capital and patience and they don't need the market to recover anytime soon to make their money. In fact they count on it to shake loose all those cheap coins from all the believers. Most of the believers or hodlers will need a good 2 years to shake loose the coins for them to lose faith and begin selling. Some of course will never sell, but the big boys know a lot of people will once their faith and beliefs in crypto's future have been shattered.

Anyway, as I said before to all those hanging on to mining equipment in the hope the recovery is just around the corner, you are better off unplugging your gear and selling off what you can than to wait it out. When mining does become profitable again, there will also be new equipment and GPUs that are a lot more efficient than your old gear, so even if you did keep it you would be at a disadvantage.

Probably, in 2019,  SEC will approve the opening of stock investment bitcoin funds, which will attract many investments to the cryptocurrency market and significantly increase its capitalization. This should mitigate the fall in mining revenues and even create a new hype around the cryptocurrencies.

+100 percent right back at ya.

Guess why Steammit laid off 75 percent of its staff folks. Guess why china miners are dumping their less efficient miners now,  Why would they do this if the market was to recover soon in 6 months?  Once that 6k bitcoin support price broke that was it. They knew the bear market will drag on much longer.  The 6k btc support trend line signified hope and that has been shattered turned into resistance now and any bounce back close to 6k will just get sold off in the near term till no more bag holders left,  and this is according to Chris Dunn a well respected professional crypto trader,  and he's expecting a longer market cycles due to a bigger market cap size & more market participants compared to last cycle  in a slowly maturing market. This is just the nature of market cycles

By the way things are going, it looks like we got another 4-6 months of bear shake out, Icos right now are capitulating eth, people doing legal wash trading to minimize taxes,  and the Irs grizzly bear will force those early 2018 traders and 2018 miners that are all underwater, to pay up for taxes owed so they dont' go to jail. This will cover the first half of 2019 and 6 month accumulation till end of 2019, and then back to slow healthy growth in 2020, and party time 2021-2023.

I'm a long term bull so do plan for multi years and protect yourself. No moon and lambos party's with Vitalik and Jihan. Not gonna happen for 2019 so do plan much longer.

Yep, you are one of the few who gets it. :)

I will know the market has bottomed out when we don't need to point out the obvious any longer and when every post is about "crypto is done", "it's a scam", "ponzi", "I am leaving and not coming back" etc.

That will be the time to start buying as most of the holders and/or moonboys will be selling their $20k, $15k, $10K, and $5k BTC back to us at fire sale prices. Their 10x loss is our 10x+ gain.

The market will recover, it is just a question of when. Unfortunately for many of the people I see posting around here the "when" cannot come soon enough and that is why they are going to end up losing out long term.

It's a dangerous time right now (for sellers) as while I do not think we are at the bottom quite yet, it is obviously a lot closer to us now at $4k than it was when we were above $10K, or even $8K. So to the people who held out this long, you could try shorting and re-buying a bit lower, but your risk/reward ratios are getting worse by the day.

As far as mining, yeah not even worth considering at this point, even with free electricity you still have the capitalization, maintenance, and administrate costs when for the same or even less money you can just buy the coins outright.

I have sold almost all of my rigs at this point and keep just a few 1080Ti around for shits and grins, but I don't think I will be investing in new gear for at least another year, if not two. By then Nvidia should be one or two generations ahead and their cards will be even more efficient than even their current 2080Ti's. We may even have more in the way of FPGAs and ASICs, so yeah any gear you buy now would be pretty much obsolete by then.