The fate of the Miners

[arielbit]

there is greed building inside me little by little...i don't know why... 

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[Za1n]

there is greed building inside me little by little...i don't know why... 

It probably has something to do with the fact you subscribe to the Warren Buffet “Be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful” philosophy.

Also similar to Baron Rothschild's "the time to buy is when there's blood in the streets" mentality. Both men are famous for making their fortunes in the stock market, so probably good advice to follow.

Myself, I think the fear and blood levels are still a bit lower, but even if you are beginning to accumulate some coins now I don't think you will need to wait too long for at a minimum a relief rally.

[Metroid]

there is greed building inside me little by little...i don't know why... 

It probably has something to do with the fact you subscribe to the Warren Buffet “Be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful” philosophy.

Also similar to Baron Rothschild's "the time to buy is when there's blood in the streets" mentality. Both men are famous for making their fortunes in the stock market, so probably good advice to follow.

Myself, I think the fear and blood levels are still a bit lower, but even if you are beginning to accumulate some coins now I don't think you will need to wait too long for at a minimum a relief rally.

Not even in 2015 when manipulators showed idiots bitcoin was done for, the fall was not as bad than it is right now, $1200 ath and crashed to $200, that is 6 times, right now from ath of $21k, price is $3600 x 6 = 21k, using the history, btc can't crash any further. This is the bottom cause there is no news telling bitcoin is dead like it was in 2015 or any mt.gox spreading fear or anything like it was in 2015. So anything happening right now means solely manipulative and the same people doing this will be the ones buying bitcoin till it hits 100k and then they will crash it to 20k in few years and they will do the same crap over and over.

[Number6]

there is greed building inside me little by little...i don't know why... 

It probably has something to do with the fact you subscribe to the Warren Buffet “Be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful” philosophy.

Also similar to Baron Rothschild's "the time to buy is when there's blood in the streets" mentality. Both men are famous for making their fortunes in the stock market, so probably good advice to follow.

Myself, I think the fear and blood levels are still a bit lower, but even if you are beginning to accumulate some coins now I don't think you will need to wait too long for at a minimum a relief rally.

Not even in 2015 when manipulators showed idiots bitcoin was done for, the fall was not as bad than it is right now, $1200 ath and crashed to $200, that is 6 times, right now from ath of $21k, price is $3600 x 6 = 21k, using the history, btc can't crash any further. This is the bottom cause there is no news telling bitcoin is dead like it was in 2015 or any mt.gox spreading fear or anything like it was in 2015. So anything happening right now means solely manipulative and the same people doing this will be the ones buying bitcoin till it hits 100k and then they will crash it to 20k in few years and they will do the same crap over and over.

There is more room for down yet, don't count on history being an exact match for picking your bottom.

[arielbit]

there is greed building inside me little by little...i don't know why... 

It probably has something to do with the fact you subscribe to the Warren Buffet “Be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful” philosophy.

Also similar to Baron Rothschild's "the time to buy is when there's blood in the streets" mentality. Both men are famous for making their fortunes in the stock market, so probably good advice to follow.

Myself, I think the fear and blood levels are still a bit lower, but even if you are beginning to accumulate some coins now I don't think you will need to wait too long for at a minimum a relief rally.

Not even in 2015 when manipulators showed idiots bitcoin was done for, the fall was not as bad than it is right now, $1200 ath and crashed to $200, that is 6 times, right now from ath of $21k, price is $3600 x 6 = 21k, using the history, btc can't crash any further. This is the bottom cause there is no news telling bitcoin is dead like it was in 2015 or any mt.gox spreading fear or anything like it was in 2015. So anything happening right now means solely manipulative and the same people doing this will be the ones buying bitcoin till it hits 100k and then they will crash it to 20k in few years and they will do the same crap over and over.

There is more room for down yet, don't count on history being an exact match for picking your bottom.

could be, could be not...either way i would like to point out that the last bottom has these points

- bitcointalk was a wasteland, people left.

- no youtube clowns appearing and twitter twats.

- asic manufacturers are not manufacturing

- exchanges closing, exchanges exit scamming, exchanges listing shitcoins by the dozens to get more fees to survive

...and today adoption is not like it was back then so we may not hit that kind of surrounding/atmosphere again, nonetheless we are close i think.

[12x_1080_Ti]

Mining is dead temporally

[Metroid]

See that is my point, before manipulators used those things to crash bitcoin, right now there is nothing that could be the reason for bitcoin to crash and yet it has been crashing since a very very stable price of 6700 usd. There must be a manipulative scheme in which they take bitcoin's price to these levels and keep until they fill their wallets and then they start pumping 30% daily for a week and then stop and keep at 20% and so on. 2018 the ath and the fall of bitcoin, 2019, starting mid December, i think, bitcoin will be pumped, 10k again? April 2019 I believe and the objective is bitcoin at $90k.

[FulaerJI]

Of course, you are mining by faith.


I recommend you to dig some SCC(ANN post is posted by me), after all, SCC is the most potential project I can find.

The undervalued currencies, at the beginning, are often at a loss at mining.

[Piskeante]

i bet this market will die for a large amount of reasons.

i´ll give you some of them

1º If you knew for a fact, that the price of an asset is going to skyrocket eventually, wouldn't you buy right now?? Noone IMPORTANT, is buying the coins, just hamsters. If you think a market like this can pump by very few people buying 2-10 coins...you are mad.

2º if you were interested in buying, because you think it will skyrocket, why would you believe that you aren't going to buy since you think it will go lower??

3º The situation of crypto like the one in 2018 has never ever happened before. And this has many reasons:

a) Governments want to absolutely control people investing in crypto, because this governments want your money to give it to their own voters. So, every money that goes for crypto, is lost to some extent from the control. So laws, legislations and taxes are absolutely there to provide the tools necessary to CONTROL EVERYBODY. tHIS SITUATION NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE. That's why the market cannot recover

b) Banks, are also dealing with this matter. Not only because most of them have bought debt from this governments, but also because the less money they get to invest and get profit, the less money they can lend to governments. Every dollar that is invested in crypto, is a dollar from which banks cannot win money from. So they will force every inch they can to destroy crypto as a way of bypassing the system, exactly like governments.

c) the end of anonimity is already here. Both banks and governments are cooperating together to share information of how to deal with this people investing, and how to get him into problems as much as possible so that they get discouraged to do it again.

d) the end of decentralization is also here. Big players can manipulate a market that was first created to try to benefit a hole community. Miners are specifically destroyed by the end of this principle, since big companys with low to almost 0 electricity cost are getting the honey while you get shit. 50% of the total power hashrate in the bitcoin pool is in China. I don't consider that as a decentralization. And if you are intelligent enough, you won't do it also.

4º BTC was created to ensure the transition to another way of dealing with money. Nowadays, BTC has failed miserably to engage a fight against real money. More over, not a single coin is telling the community how much money they are making with their software and how many projects are dealing with them. ETH is the most opaque coin of all. They've never said info about projects or money.

What if ETH was valued 20 times more in an speculative market, than in real money performance??? Would you buy anything in this world that people say costs 20 times more than what is actually worth???

5º and for me, the most important idea, that i believe will destroy this market , is that the technology of many coins is useless. Why? because no important COMPANY OR ENTERPRISE will want to share their own data with a third party company that could sell that info to others. That's why many many many companys are building their own coins.

In the future, almost all companys will have, support, and share their own coins, specifically design to fit their activities without having to trust a system that can crash 20% a day, or that can even lose 95% of value in just 12 months.


For me this market is absolutely dead. the problem is that those in don't know it, and investors and holders will never accept it.  

[lunobird]

Even if we are near bottom or in the despair stage. There's gonna be a period of accumulation and slow growth for all of 2019.

Can you miners survive these low to negative profitablity for another year at least? Most won't. I see miners are still too optimistic and haven't felt enough pain yet. Profitablity therefore will drop more and drag out for multiple years. I bet miners will not last that long and give up in 6 more months. Their dreams of Moon and lambos will be shatteter and  recovery taking longer than they want like multiple years. Eth hash rate finally decreasing some but not enough yet to justify mining

[Piskeante]

Even if we are near bottom or in the despair stage. There's gonna be a period of accumulation and slow growth for all of 2019.

Can you miners survive these low to negative profitablity for another year at least? Most won't. I see miners are still too optimistic and haven't felt enough pain yet. Profitablity therefore will drop more and drag out for multiple years. I bet miners will not last that long and give up in 6 more months. Their dreams of Moon and lambos will be shatteter and  recovery taking longer than they want like multiple years. Eth hash rate finally decreasing some but not enough yet to justify mining

today, all miners with electricity cost about 0.08$/kW are losing money. Not much, just about 5$ per month. But i don't think it's profitable unless you think this market will recover, which i don't think it will happen.

[lunobird]

 I'm mining with my 32 nvidia gpus 10 series at a colo facility.  Pretty much breaking even after electric/host cost or maybe losing a little.  I'll let that run till it drives itself into the ground.

Ya time to get a new hobby in order to mentally take my mind off crypto and let mining be a passive thing

I've got a new 8se celestron telescope and thinking of fixing up muscle cars again.

[abstractHaze]

maaaaaaaaan
Belief.

this is the problem.

people who believe in crypto. bend so easy to the imaginary price.

im looking at bitcoins and seeing how many other shits i can get without regards to value.

i don't "believe" in crypto.
i just "know" facts.

i know there will be a return.
and i don't wanna hear that how do you know bs, i know because this has happened before.  
even if.. even if ........ btc hit 2k, thats a much higher launching pad from the previous crashes that wiped it out. over and over.

people fear time the most. because thats all you need to do.. buy and give that thing time a try.
it doesn't matter what you payed. it's what you sell for. make your moves and go with the green.
if it's long term holds, make sure the projects are sound that you invest with.
keep in mind people are being thrown bitcoins right now. lots of them.
and if people were not "buying them" the price right this second would be 0.
however bitcoins are being sold, and this war seems to be more then just a lil bump. it's gonna cleanse out all the fake no money shit, and scams gonna jump ship due to the loses.

after the death, we will see mass adoption and a rise like no other. however these two shit heads with 100,000's of bitcoins duking it out can tank the price, but that's a lot of cash needed to own that much coin. lets be real here.   so people who are worried or having issues with mining need to know this is a phase and it may be a couple year or who knows recovery, but the fact remains supplies get smaller and smaller. and buyers are accumulating vast amounts right now. no doubt.. if they are not. then like i said.. shit would be going for 0. but when u throwing so many coins, then yeah the price needs to drop at some point. supply vs demand. and right now, it's a surplus sell order... were at fucking war here if you didn't notice it. and 1 coin is bleeding it raw.

my miners getting better returns then ever before. my electricity is not up. it's not down. its the same as it was 8 months ago. but 8 months ago i making 50% less coins then im making right now, yet i wasn't bitching then about how lil i was making cause the VALUE was there. but now. the value is not and im making more.  ............ so im actually fucking happy, cause i know where the price has been. and where i will see it again no fucking doubt. so balls to the wall do or die, im mining and i can afford my elec bill. thats the obvious thing you should all be doing. build the farm. set money aside for elec for 12 months. don't follow market, that shit is chaos.. and at the end of the road, it doesn't matter the ups and downs. it matters what you sell for , and how many of these fucking coins you can get in your pocket without them fucking leeches in the world getting to you.

[badbart]

Need to see a massive dump on huge volume followed by a huge rise on high volume.  This has worked for my trading over the past 20 myears in stockd and comoities.

I’m mining on .049 cent eketricty but it still sucks no fun right now.  Better off buying coin right now, I’m waiting like a vulture for blood to flow before I buy.  Very high negyivety is must with most people giving up when they can’t see a recovery.

[abstractHaze]

i wanna see it all at 1 satoshi. so i can gobble it all up. this is the best time to eject on all the fluff crypto's. more dumping is at hand here. more accumulation.

the more SV remains on the plus. the more everything will die. 80 dollar eth inc. time to stock up!

[bitcointen]

- bitcointalk was a wasteland, people left.

Can you please elaborate why bitcointalk was a wasteland? And where did people go, to other alternative discussion site about cryptocurrency?

[abstractHaze]

no ones talking anywhere but in private rooms. its all dead. small projects with fanboys are the only thing talking and all they doing is crying. the rest is a desert. with dino's running around.

[Metroid]

The manipulators already started buying their cheap coins and will stay around these levels till they see is the time to pump bitcoin to 50k or 100k, unless somebody comes with lots of money to change the paradigm, i dont see manipulators pumping bitcoin to above 5k, they want this price to stay, so they can fill their wallets till the next bullrun. $3474 was the bottom.

[nsummy]

from turbo tax USA laws
"When you mine the coins, you have income on the day the coin is "created" in your account at that day's exchange value."

You're not really wrong, but:

A) whether or not they are correct, NEVER RELY ON TURBO TAX FOR INFORMATION. If you earn more than $50K/year, they are a bad choice, and if your supplemental income from mining is substantial, get an accountant.

B) there is absolutely no way that the IRS is asking for value at time of realization, because it would bankrupt them to calculate that rate for a handful of miners, much less all. Market fluctuations are constant, and you mine in increments every second. No way they can determine that, and no way they can audit every single miner to determine fraud. Again, talk to an actual accountant about what you may or may not owe.

For anyone wondering, here is the actual IRS guidance:  https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf    There is a shitload of confusion on this, and this is unsurprising considering the guidance from the IRS is over 4 years old and only 7 pages long.  It doesn't even begin to address the current mining or trading environment.  It is indeed taxed by fair market value on the day you receive it.  It is also taxed with capital gains and losses when traded.  Its easiest to think of it like this scenario:  You have a business with various customers (the mining pools).  Instead of payment in cash you agree to get paid in comic books.  Now obviously you can't operate a business and have zero tax liability just because you aren't getting paid in dollars.  I'm sure this trick has been tried numerous times in history.  So your tax liability is based on the market value of those comic books at the time of payment.  When you sell those comic books or trade them for other comics, you are charged capital gains if the comics you sold appreciated in value, and can claim capital loses if they have gone down further.  Of course there is also tons of write-offs like hardware, labor, electricity,etc.

The bottom line is that if you have a mining business, keeping your earnings in crypto is pure speculation.  Leaving it all in is putting all of your eggs in one basket.  For any of this stuff to be applicable to the forum members, I would say they would truly have to have a mining business.  Like the guy who built a data center or someone with employees.  Otherwise there is really no way for the IRS to know, which is the beauty of crypto, it skirts the system.  But like everything, there is a paper trail so you might have to deal with getting creative when cashing out.

[stomachgrowls]

The manipulators already started buying their cheap coins and will stay around these levels till they see is the time to pump bitcoin to 50k or 100k, unless somebody comes with lots of money to change the paradigm, i dont see manipulators pumping bitcoin to above 5k, they want this price to stay, so they can fill their wallets till the next bullrun. $3474 was the bottom.

We can presume that this might the bottom and it cant go down further but it isnt really still a sure thing.It can breakout anytime just like on the times when
we do talk that 5k -6k is the bottom and look at we now on our current position.

i wanna see it all at 1 satoshi. so i can gobble it all up. this is the best time to eject on all the fluff crypto's. more dumping is at hand here. more accumulation.

the more SV remains on the plus. the more everything will die. 80 dollar eth inc. time to stock up!

1 satoshi then we can presume that all crypto people did vacate into other field.