The fate of the Miners

[Metroid]

We can presume that this might the bottom and it cant go down further but it isnt really still a sure thing.It can breakout anytime just like on the times when
we do talk that 5k -6k is the bottom and look at we now on our current position.

If you are into crypto then you probably know that everything will be rising starting march 2019 and when things start rising then you must understand that like the dump of 10 times, the pump will be 3 x 10 times or maybe 5 x 10 times or so and we can expect in 18 months or so till the next crash, last time bitcoin started rising for real, it was $300 and the highest till it started crashing was 21k, that was 21000/300 = 70 times or 7000%, i have a feeling bitcoin will reach 100k in 2020/2021. So from now, that will be a 30 times only from 3.5k but it might reach even greater than that cause like the crash, the pump is also extreme, maybe a pump to 200k and then a crash to 35k.

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[abstractHaze]

metroid is using math for his future sight. shits on point

[mmihai1978]

Nobody knows for sure what will happen next; many people are disgusted with crypto and have been badly burned.

If anyone would be sure the market will rebound 70 times they would buy now - well, that's not happening.

I fear the bottom will be lower this time and the rebound much more difficult - if there will ever be a rebound.

[badbart]

Been trading for 20 years and the best time to buy is with extremely high negativity.  I'm not saying its the bottom, but the more negativity we get the better.  The more news reports about doom and the more pole give up the better.  Also holds true for tops, BTC 500,000 or i'll cut off my dick, lol.

[arielbit]

just think about how much BTC you can buy now if you sold BTC at 15k and above? we are venturing to around x5 amount of BTC.

if you sold 5 BTC back then, now you can have 25 BTC...kinda venturing to irresistible levels now, from my point of view..

if you sold at 16k and bought back at 2k (if ever we got there), that's x8 amount of BTC...if you sold 5 BTC back then you can now get 40 BTC...now that's a winner hehe

if you are starting to buy now and average down if BTC goes down more...you'll never loose

[dagarair]

just think about how much BTC you can buy now if you sold BTC at 15k and above? we are venturing to around x5 amount of BTC.

if you sold 5 BTC back then, now you can have 25 BTC...kinda venturing to irresistible levels now, from my point of view..

if you sold at 16k and bought back at 2k (if ever we got there), that's x8 amount of BTC...if you sold 5 BTC back then you can now get 40 BTC...now that's a winner hehe

if you are starting to buy now and average down if BTC goes down more...you'll never loose

if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

 

[philipma1957]

just think about how much BTC you can buy now if you sold BTC at 15k and above? we are venturing to around x5 amount of BTC.

if you sold 5 BTC back then, now you can have 25 BTC...kinda venturing to irresistible levels now, from my point of view..

if you sold at 16k and bought back at 2k (if ever we got there), that's x8 amount of BTC...if you sold 5 BTC back then you can now get 40 BTC...now that's a winner hehe

if you are starting to buy now and average down if BTC goes down more...you'll never loose

if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

 

No if my grandma had balls she’d be my grandad

[arielbit]

just think about how much BTC you can buy now if you sold BTC at 15k and above? we are venturing to around x5 amount of BTC.

if you sold 5 BTC back then, now you can have 25 BTC...kinda venturing to irresistible levels now, from my point of view..

if you sold at 16k and bought back at 2k (if ever we got there), that's x8 amount of BTC...if you sold 5 BTC back then you can now get 40 BTC...now that's a winner hehe

if you are starting to buy now and average down if BTC goes down more...you'll never loose

if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

 

No if my grandma had balls she’d be my grandad

Now....

Just let metroid multiply that to 35k or 100k or 200k...voila, your aunt and grandma will now be a huge ball like the moon. 

[h311m4n]

Nobody knows for sure what will happen next; many people are disgusted with crypto and have been badly burned.

Like it or not, this is a good thing.

As much as I hate to say it, crypto needs a purge from all the shitcoins and clueless people that are in it for the quick-buck or get-rich-quick scheme. Those that have been badly burned have been warned countless times by a phrase that has become to motto of many crypto-enthusiasts: don't put in more than you're willing to lose. This is one fact that has always remained true.

And lets be honest, what crypto is today, isn't what satoshi had envisioned. Bitcoin was supposed to facilitate the sending of money worldwide and everyone was supposed to be able to participate. Instead it has become a giant ogre of speculation where the big bucks hold the bag over the little guy, ready to take a shit on them. The network is ruled by giant asic farms and there is no decentralization.

I'll give you my personal thought on all this: crypto is here to stay. There's no way around it. I don't really understand why the market took a plunge and there are many theories around it. I'll just hodl what I have an patiently wait for things to settle down and pick up again as they always do.

Let's not forget that the global trend of Bitcoin has always been upwards. Just because we are seeing a correction now doesn't invalidate that fact. Even at 1000$ this remains true.

[starlilyth]

As much as I hate to say it, crypto needs a purge from all the shitcoins and clueless people that are in it for the quick-buck or get-rich-quick scheme.

It is 2015 all over again! You are 100% correct, IMHO: crypto isnt going away, just hitting the down side of the cycle.

Lily

[h311m4n]

As much as I hate to say it, crypto needs a purge from all the shitcoins and clueless people that are in it for the quick-buck or get-rich-quick scheme.

It is 2015 all over again! You are 100% correct, IMHO: crypto isnt going away, just hitting the down side of the cycle.

Lily

Yep, 2015 all over again as you say.

And I don't mean to be some sort of revolutionary crazy person with what I'm about to say, but here it is:

Looking at the current financial system worldwide, it is evident that things are going to go to shit again sooner or later. The average Joe (by that I mostly mean the middle class man/woman) isn't able to keep their head above the water any longer. There are more and more working poors who are giving away what little they earn in taxes and other things like health insurance or education for their kids for instance. They struggle to make ends meet. Meanwhile the rich get richer because they can and the poor can't get any poorer anyway.

2008 was just a small wave in comparison to the tsunami that is coming. Who helped keep the banks afloat after the shitstorm 10 years ago? The governments. And who is more in debt today than ever before? The governments, again. The next big crisis will be that of governments (we're already seeing it, look at Venezuela or Greece). And once that happens, those governments will raise taxes and whatnot to keep afloat. This is when people will massively turn to crypto once again, when they are just at a point where they can't take it anymore, as big fuck you to the people they elected to make things better.

Call me crazy but it just makes sense to me.

[Marvell2]

As much as I hate to say it, crypto needs a purge from all the shitcoins and clueless people that are in it for the quick-buck or get-rich-quick scheme.

It is 2015 all over again! You are 100% correct, IMHO: crypto isnt going away, just hitting the down side of the cycle.

Lily

Yep, 2015 all over again as you say.

And I don't mean to be some sort of revolutionary crazy person with what I'm about to say, but here it is:

Looking at the current financial system worldwide, it is evident that things are going to go to shit again sooner or later. The average Joe (by that I mostly mean the middle class man/woman) isn't able to keep their head above the water any longer. There are more and more working poors who are giving away what little they earn in taxes and other things like health insurance or education for their kids for instance. They struggle to make ends meet. Meanwhile the rich get richer because they can and the poor can't get any poorer anyway.

2008 was just a small wave in comparison to the tsunami that is coming. Who helped keep the banks afloat after the shitstorm 10 years ago? The governments. And who is more in debt today than ever before? The governments, again. The next big crisis will be that of governments (we're already seeing it, look at Venezuela or Greece). And once that happens, those governments will raise taxes and whatnot to keep afloat. This is when people will massively turn to crypto once again, when they are just at a point where they can't take it anymore, as big fuck you to the people they elected to make things better.

Call me crazy but it just makes sense to me.

I would say all this is true except for your last part about people turning to crypto, crypto is heavily owned by the big corporations right now , at least the top 10 coins.  unless you are suggesting new coins that are more decentralized in ownership will pop up , another 2008 with a switch to crypto benifits the banksters and top percent too

[Za1n]

Even if we are near bottom or in the despair stage. There's gonna be a period of accumulation and slow growth for all of 2019.

Can you miners survive these low to negative profitablity for another year at least? Most won't. I see miners are still too optimistic and haven't felt enough pain yet. Profitablity therefore will drop more and drag out for multiple years. I bet miners will not last that long and give up in 6 more months. Their dreams of Moon and lambos will be shatteter and  recovery taking longer than they want like multiple years. Eth hash rate finally decreasing some but not enough yet to justify mining

This 100%.

Miners still need to feel the pain, too many are mining "at a loss", or at best breakeven, as they think the recovery is right around the corner and in 6 months we will be back at ATH. No, we will need the next year to find the true bottom and for the big boys to accumulate, and probably another year after that for prices to recover and start slowly climbing. This is basically the 2013-2016 playbook all over again.

I think the biggest problem most miners, and almost all traders, on here have is they are relatively small potatoes in the scheme of things. The big investors have plenty of capital and patience and they don't need the market to recover anytime soon to make their money. In fact they count on it to shake loose all those cheap coins from all the believers. Most of the believers or hodlers will need a good 2 years to shake loose the coins for them to lose faith and begin selling. Some of course will never sell, but the big boys know a lot of people will once their faith and beliefs in crypto's future have been shattered.

Anyway, as I said before to all those hanging on to mining equipment in the hope the recovery is just around the corner, you are better off unplugging your gear and selling off what you can than to wait it out. When mining does become profitable again, there will also be new equipment and GPUs that are a lot more efficient than your old gear, so even if you did keep it you would be at a disadvantage.

[VasilyS]

Probably, in 2019,  SEC will approve the opening of stock investment bitcoin funds, which will attract many investments to the cryptocurrency market and significantly increase its capitalization. This should mitigate the fall in mining revenues and even create a new hype around the cryptocurrencies.

[lunobird]

Even if we are near bottom or in the despair stage. There's gonna be a period of accumulation and slow growth for all of 2019.

Can you miners survive these low to negative profitablity for another year at least? Most won't. I see miners are still too optimistic and haven't felt enough pain yet. Profitablity therefore will drop more and drag out for multiple years. I bet miners will not last that long and give up in 6 more months. Their dreams of Moon and lambos will be shatteter and  recovery taking longer than they want like multiple years. Eth hash rate finally decreasing some but not enough yet to justify mining

This 100%.

Miners still need to feel the pain, too many are mining "at a loss", or at best breakeven, as they think the recovery is right around the corner and in 6 months we will be back at ATH. No, we will need the next year to find the true bottom and for the big boys to accumulate, and probably another year after that for prices to recover and start slowly climbing. This is basically the 2013-2016 playbook all over again.

I think the biggest problem most miners, and almost all traders, on here have is they are relatively small potatoes in the scheme of things. The big investors have plenty of capital and patience and they don't need the market to recover anytime soon to make their money. In fact they count on it to shake loose all those cheap coins from all the believers. Most of the believers or hodlers will need a good 2 years to shake loose the coins for them to lose faith and begin selling. Some of course will never sell, but the big boys know a lot of people will once their faith and beliefs in crypto's future have been shattered.

Anyway, as I said before to all those hanging on to mining equipment in the hope the recovery is just around the corner, you are better off unplugging your gear and selling off what you can than to wait it out. When mining does become profitable again, there will also be new equipment and GPUs that are a lot more efficient than your old gear, so even if you did keep it you would be at a disadvantage.

+100 percent right back at ya.

Guess why Steammit laid off 75 percent of its staff folks. Guess why china miners are dumping their less efficient miners now,  Why would they do this if the market was to recover soon in 6 months?  Once that 6k bitcoin support price broke that was it. They knew the bear market will drag on much longer.  The 6k btc support trend line signified hope and that has been shattered turned into resistance now and any bounce back close to 6k will just get sold off in the near term till no more bag holders left,  and this is according to Chris Dunn a well respected professional crypto trader,  and he's expecting a longer market cycles due to a bigger market cap size & more market participants compared to last cycle  in a slowly maturing market. This is just the nature of market cycles

By the way things are going, it looks like we got another 4-6 months of bear shake out, Icos right now are capitulating eth, people doing legal wash trading to minimize taxes,  and the Irs grizzly bear will force those early 2018 traders and 2018 miners that are all underwater, to pay up for taxes owed so they dont' go to jail. This will cover the first half of 2019 and 6 month accumulation till end of 2019, and then back to slow healthy growth in 2020, and party time 2021-2023.

I'm a long term bull so do plan for multi years and protect yourself. No moon and lambos party's with Vitalik and Jihan. Not gonna happen for 2019 so do plan much longer.

[Za1n]

Even if we are near bottom or in the despair stage. There's gonna be a period of accumulation and slow growth for all of 2019.

Can you miners survive these low to negative profitablity for another year at least? Most won't. I see miners are still too optimistic and haven't felt enough pain yet. Profitablity therefore will drop more and drag out for multiple years. I bet miners will not last that long and give up in 6 more months. Their dreams of Moon and lambos will be shatteter and  recovery taking longer than they want like multiple years. Eth hash rate finally decreasing some but not enough yet to justify mining

This 100%.

Miners still need to feel the pain, too many are mining "at a loss", or at best breakeven, as they think the recovery is right around the corner and in 6 months we will be back at ATH. No, we will need the next year to find the true bottom and for the big boys to accumulate, and probably another year after that for prices to recover and start slowly climbing. This is basically the 2013-2016 playbook all over again.

I think the biggest problem most miners, and almost all traders, on here have is they are relatively small potatoes in the scheme of things. The big investors have plenty of capital and patience and they don't need the market to recover anytime soon to make their money. In fact they count on it to shake loose all those cheap coins from all the believers. Most of the believers or hodlers will need a good 2 years to shake loose the coins for them to lose faith and begin selling. Some of course will never sell, but the big boys know a lot of people will once their faith and beliefs in crypto's future have been shattered.

Anyway, as I said before to all those hanging on to mining equipment in the hope the recovery is just around the corner, you are better off unplugging your gear and selling off what you can than to wait it out. When mining does become profitable again, there will also be new equipment and GPUs that are a lot more efficient than your old gear, so even if you did keep it you would be at a disadvantage.

+100 percent right back at ya.

Guess why Steammit laid off 75 percent of its staff folks. Guess why china miners are dumping their less efficient miners now,  Why would they do this if the market was to recover soon in 6 months?  Once that 6k bitcoin support price broke that was it. They knew the bear market will drag on much longer.  The 6k btc support trend line signified hope and that has been shattered turned into resistance now and any bounce back close to 6k will just get sold off in the near term till no more bag holders left,  and this is according to Chris Dunn a well respected professional crypto trader,  and he's expecting a longer market cycles due to a bigger market cap size & more market participants compared to last cycle  in a slowly maturing market. This is just the nature of market cycles

By the way things are going, it looks like we got another 4-6 months of bear shake out, Icos right now are capitulating eth, people doing legal wash trading to minimize taxes,  and the Irs grizzly bear will force those early 2018 traders and 2018 miners that are all underwater, to pay up for taxes owed so they dont' go to jail. This will cover the first half of 2019 and 6 month accumulation till end of 2019, and then back to slow healthy growth in 2020, and party time 2021-2023.

I'm a long term bull so do plan for multi years and protect yourself. No moon and lambos party's with Vitalik and Jihan. Not gonna happen for 2019 so do plan much longer.

Yep, you are one of the few who gets it.

I will know the market has bottomed out when we don't need to point out the obvious any longer and when every post is about "crypto is done", "it's a scam", "ponzi", "I am leaving and not coming back" etc.

That will be the time to start buying as most of the holders and/or moonboys will be selling their $20k, $15k, $10K, and $5k BTC back to us at fire sale prices. Their 10x loss is our 10x+ gain.

The market will recover, it is just a question of when. Unfortunately for many of the people I see posting around here the "when" cannot come soon enough and that is why they are going to end up losing out long term.

It's a dangerous time right now (for sellers) as while I do not think we are at the bottom quite yet, it is obviously a lot closer to us now at $4k than it was when we were above $10K, or even $8K. So to the people who held out this long, you could try shorting and re-buying a bit lower, but your risk/reward ratios are getting worse by the day.

As far as mining, yeah not even worth considering at this point, even with free electricity you still have the capitalization, maintenance, and administrate costs when for the same or even less money you can just buy the coins outright.

I have sold almost all of my rigs at this point and keep just a few 1080Ti around for shits and grins, but I don't think I will be investing in new gear for at least another year, if not two. By then Nvidia should be one or two generations ahead and their cards will be even more efficient than even their current 2080Ti's. We may even have more in the way of FPGAs and ASICs, so yeah any gear you buy now would be pretty much obsolete by then.