Bitcoin Forum

Economy => Reputation => Topic started by: Vispilio on September 04, 2019, 02:21:50 PM



Title: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: Vispilio on September 04, 2019, 02:21:50 PM
The incessant and repetitive prejudice, insults & lies thrown indiscriminately against all the Turkish high ranking members have become so tedious and outrageous that finally I have to open a thread and flag about it.

The Turkish section proposes user ~Timelord2067 to be excluded from all trust lists, so his constant immoral and malevolent activities cannot harm an entire local section of the forum as well its overall integrity.

Flag against Timelord2067 here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=702
(Update: flag is now withdrawn purely based on the procedural objections raised by many valuable members through this thread & elsewhere).


First of all a brief prelude:

The fact remains that any high ranking Turkish member who ever makes it to the top 150 of these DT selections will get instantly tagged by 3-4 people that he has never interacted with. When anyone points the absurdity of this out, he will also get tagged by another 3-4 guys, in a crazy organized scheme to prevent their future participation in any Default Trust selections...

A mere glance at the trust list history of any high ranking Turkish member will instantly demonstrate to you the existence of these mysterious distrusters... With some of them we have conducted an amicable and intellectual dialogue and resolved all misunderstandings,
so in particular I personally thank @owlcatz, @klaaas and @lauda for their commendable and empathetic moral behavior.


For the last 10 days or so, however, user Timelord2067, has dedicated what I believe the entirety of his leisure time to what he calls "collecting evidence" against the Turkish section.

His ludicrously deranged methods include stalking every high ranking Turkish member on a daily basis, going through their entire merit history, post history, thread history, even message edit history and countless other minor details, and after spending an endless amount of hours doing these, coming up with many many long posts containing the crudest lies, misinterpretations and false translations of these archives to always arrive at the same boring vacant conclusion:

that everything ever done by the Turkish members is an "evidence" to a conspiracy or fraud or scam attempt or an otherwise criminal activity...

What's even more surprising to me is that the undeniably hateful and racist activities by this obvious childish troll astonishingly find considerable support from some members that we previously thought to be level-headed and intellectual core forum participants; therefore leading me to very unwillingly commit the time and energy to open a flag on this matter rather than simply ignoring the few deeply disturbed trolls of the forum...


I've made a special appeal to theymos and all honorable DT1 members to decisively address the issue on a recent response:

Dear Theymos & well meaning DT1 members,

One of the greatest threats to the well being of this forum is idle trolls like Timelord2067 who have an astonishing amount of empty leisure time on their hands, and their hidden enablers, who have a well-concealed deep seated prejudice against certain nationalities and take a sadistic pleasure in seeing certain local parts of the forum routinely disparaged and persecuted...

Every allegation the nasty troll Timelord2067 raised against me and the Turkish section has been refuted with ample evidence, you can read my many responses to him in the following links:

1) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5154371.msg52300298#msg52300298

2) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5098623.msg52294272#msg52294272

3) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5178814.msg52280763#msg52280763


User Timelord2067 is already on the ignore and distrust list of many Turkish users; since he has no intentions of stopping his hateful campaign of stalking, misrepresenting (with false auto translate services) and outright lying about the Turkish part of the forum, we will immediately proceed to open a flag about him now.

Looking forward to the final resolution of this matter, as the most boring part of participating in this great forum for me is having to deal with  hateful and completely vacant NPC trolls like him and their secret and not so secret promoters...


And I hereby inform the respectable BTT community that I am opening a flag against ~Timelord2067 and will continue to tag users who like to persecute people based on their nationality or anthropological backgrounds...


EDIT based on some feedback regarding flags: If historical events are any guide, I'm reasonably convinced that there is a great correlation between exhibiting irrational hate & persecution towards certain groups and committing financial crimes against them, so I believe the flag against this deeply unstable stalker called Timelord2067 is appropriate from a financial perspective as well.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: wolwoo on September 04, 2019, 02:41:19 PM
Thanks @Vispilio
Why are people hostile to each other? Is that Satoshi's dream? Lie, slander, hate, instinct to destroy ...
If we've done something wrong, we want fair defense. Those who will judge us should at least allow us to make our defense. You can't slander people whose language you don't know and call them "justice."
I want justice I want justice

You've seen "12 angry men." You can also execute us (the green mile), free and leave free (The Shawshank Redemption). You will determine the end of this film.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: LoyceV on September 04, 2019, 02:54:59 PM
Since I'm dragged into this, I'll respond.

I did see Timelord2067's thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5181603.0) already, and my initial suspicion of (Google) translation errors was confirmed by ekiller (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5181603.msg52355780#msg52355780). I left it at that, as I don't have the time (nor desire) to check out all details in that thread before I can decide to Support or Oppose the Flags.

However, your Flag is clearly incorrect. I see no reason in this topic why this would be true:
Quote
Due largely to the factors mentioned in this topic, I believe that anyone dealing with Timelord2067 is at a high risk of losing money, and guests would be well-advised to avoid doing so. This determination is based on concrete red flags which any knowledgeable & reasonable forum user should agree with, and it is not based on the user's opinions.
Therefore, I have Opposed the Flag.

I think you're misunderstanding some of the basic freedoms this forum offers: it offers the freedom to offend people, be a racist, and show hatred. I've seen those freedoms abused, but that doesn't mean those freedoms shouldn't be defended. There are many forums on the internet where freedom of speech is limited, and I very much value the freedoms we have here. That doesn't mean I necessarily agree or oppose those views, it's just how this forum works.

I don't expect theymos to get involved here, unless this happens:
Creating or supporting a scammer flag is actively affirming a set of pretty clear fact-statements. If someone knowingly supports a flag containing incorrect fact-statements, then that is crystal-clear abuse, and I will seek to have such people removed from DT ASAP. People who are habitually wrong, even not knowingly, should also be removed.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: Vispilio on September 04, 2019, 03:19:53 PM

I think you're misunderstanding some of the basic freedoms this forum offers: it offers the freedom to offend people, be a racist, and show hatred. I've seen those freedoms abused, but that doesn't mean those freedoms shouldn't be defended. There are many forums on the internet where freedom of speech is limited, and I very much value the freedoms we have here. That doesn't mean I necessarily agree or oppose those views, it's just how this forum works.


ok if racism, thought to be one of the greatest evils on the planet and strongly forbidden by all civilized nations, their constitutions and laws, is permitted here for the sake of the total boundless freedom of creative thought, I'm fine with that.

Having said that, you publicly defending and promoting this in this case, LoyceV, condones a very dangerous premise for the integrity of this forum, and contrary to your initial gut feeling, it does follow that people dealing with Timelord2067 are at risk of great monetary loss, and the flag is very appropriate because I'm sure a knowledgeable individual like you can find ample correlation in history between prejudice / persecution and financial crimes.

People prone to irrational hateful behavior will not hesitate to exhibit that blind prejudice in monetary matters as well, so a smart community should be vigilant against dealing with these vacant NPC's like Timelord2067...


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: Hey there Delilah on September 04, 2019, 03:24:30 PM
Its not about racism its about fraud. lots of alt account abusing local forum


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2544574.msg52270214#msg52270214


2 Accounts Connected:

Bitcoin Forum > Local > Türkçe (Turkish)

El-Cezeri (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1277439), Kalemder (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=487377),

Proof:
Hi there;

my english is not so good, but i will try to explain it;

2 Accounts connected on local forum, they entered lots of signature bounties;



Here some evidences;


2.
Both are  follower of Erbakan Hodja  (Erdogan's hodja) and the only person in the country who writes about Bitcoin and Erbakan's unification of islam against western economic culture.

Kalemder
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2312539.msg23538970#msg23538970

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2312539.msg23467041#msg23467041

El-cezeri

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5162605.msg51738090;topicseen#msg51738090


3. Both of the previous signatures were the same, the bounties they entered were the same regularly. for example, in ferrum, one asks when the signature will be distributed, and the other answers the wrong membership


Kalemder

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5169415.msg52028060#msg52028060

El ceziri

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5169415.msg52027694#msg52027694

4. After removing the writings of both at the same time, a concise word-aphorism was written.


5. They both enter the Asura, luckily neither of them sells for a long time and they both write losses.


Kalemder loss money in the asura ico

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4598243.msg42093106#msg42093106

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3874758.msg41201768#msg41201768

Al-Ceziri remembers the old days, about he loses in asura ico

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4598243.msg51696342#msg51696342

6- both of them on the same day binance margin on the pondering questions.

No need to write about it already has 30-40 posts.

He follows the lord of the rings news every week,

el ceziri;

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5157246.msg51916484#msg51916484

Kalemder makes profile photos about the lord of the rings from time to time. He writes lots of gandalf's aforism in time to time. his signature was a gandalfs aforism.



8. Both claimed that the telegram was swindled by group admins. One of them opened the subject in this matter, both wisdom in the same way, the same tactics are being defrauded in the post telegram admins and he said they are scammers.


Kalemder

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5143406.0

el ceziri

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4576893.msg41308657#msg41308657


9.  they both have 30.000 Turkis liras  pc, he occasionally put the photos of this pc, and remove.  About this pc One screen of the PC stands vertically on the table, not horizontal, and both PCs have Dual 1080 Graphics cards. both have 1 ethereum rig.


Kalemder
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4846529.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2080023.msg20789030#msg20789030

El ceziri

Recently, a person who wants to collect a pc out of the subject, he said I have 30 thousand liralik PC double 1080 li, there is also a rig post,

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5170462.msg52008065#msg52008065

the sad part;

10. on last month, he activated his inactive sub-membership to make full member via collect merit. later, on off-topic boards he ask about how to collect merit and he opened a board and he asked for positive trust from people.  Last 2 weeks kalemder most merited to el- cezeri and el ceziri most merited to kalemder.

Favorite profiles to send sMerit to
el cezeri to Kalemder      8   (the most)


Favorite profiles to send sMerit to

Kalemder to el-cezeri  19        (the most)




And he accepts these claims;

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5157246.msg52114023#msg52114023


translated;

Quote
Hahaha, shove it! Forum's new magazine topic

I'm Kalemder. Besides, he's your best Thank you.
Cezeri is not the same person as me, But i don't mean he is different, he's a relative (family).  We are using same PC.  I've even mixed up his account while using the same computer. Some times I mix my account with he.

Come on, it doesn't matter. This is a place where anonymous ideas meet anonymously.


both accounts online everytime and he is online with his relative on same pc. and he uses his relatives accounts at same pc at same time. its a bullshit lie.

There are 30 evidences about this alt-account. I can add more and more. All members know he is the same.  You can use Google translate to translate the post, or you can ask me to translate it, i can help you. We suffer in local forum for merit farming for alt accounts, abusing, sub-accounts and signature abusing.


I hope some DT persons or other forum members can help about that



Miscellaneous:

Any other comments you may have belong here.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: wolwoo on September 04, 2019, 03:30:12 PM
@Hey there Delilah

I've read your writings before. You think you're Scherlock Holmes. Those people admitted that they were relatives of Kalemder and Al-Jazari. But because of your endless enmity, hatred and enmity you and others like you, people got cold from the forum.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: LoyceV on September 04, 2019, 03:31:32 PM
Having said that, you publicly defending and promoting this in this case, LoyceV, condones a very dangerous premise for the integrity of this forum
I think we'll have to agree to disagree here. You can't be selective about which freedom of speech you accept, and which not. That's not freedom, it's censorship.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/191/325/24f.jpg
(source (https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1191325-image-quotes))


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: wolwoo on September 04, 2019, 03:35:04 PM
Having said that, you publicly defending and promoting this in this case, LoyceV, condones a very dangerous premise for the integrity of this forum
I think we'll have to agree to disagree here. You can't be selective about which freedom of speech you accept, and which not. That's not freedom, it's censorship.

People are obliged to prove their claim. Are we gonna come here every day and answer someone's crap? Or will those who make false accusations be given heavy penalties?


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: Vispilio on September 04, 2019, 03:42:35 PM

I think we'll have to agree to disagree here. You can't be selective about which freedom of speech you accept, and which not. That's not freedom, it's censorship.


I don't think banning racism is censorship Loyce, it's just promoting the survival and well being of the human species :).

Similar to banning people for death threats and inflicting violence, racist behavior should also be taken very seriously, as it attempts to dehumanize and completely disqualify certain segments of the human population (and here certain parts of the forum) from a dignified
and joyous life, I would consider that a very serious crime against humanity.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: suchmoon on September 04, 2019, 03:47:12 PM
People are obliged to prove their claim. Are we gonna come here every day and answer someone's crap? Or will those who make false accusations be given heavy penalties?

What penalties exactly? If someone breaks forum rules - report them to moderators. Other than that you can choose to either ignore it or to escalate the drama.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: The Pharmacist on September 04, 2019, 03:50:04 PM
Why are people hostile to each other? Is that Satoshi's dream? Lie, slander, hate, instinct to destroy ...
No, I'm sure it was definitely not his dream.  As to the hostility, it's the result of cultural clashes which have been around since time out of mind.  I've got nothing against Turkey or the Turkish section, btw.  But there's been a lot of drama there for quite a while, and I think it's a very cloistered section.  Whenever that happens, there's always going to be conflict.

I don't think banning racism is censorship Loyce, it's just promoting the survival and well being of the human species :).
But it is censorship.  Racial supremacy (whatever the race) is an idea, and if someone can't express that idea because someone is prohibiting people from speaking about it....well, what would you call that if not censorship?  LoyceV is correct.  If free speech is to be protected, it's generally the offensive ideas that need the defense, not inoffensive speech that most people agree with.  HBW would agree with me, the devil rest her soul.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: wolwoo on September 04, 2019, 03:50:45 PM
People are obliged to prove their claim. Are we gonna come here every day and answer someone's crap? Or will those who make false accusations be given heavy penalties?

What penalties exactly? If someone breaks forum rules - report them to moderators. Other than that you can choose to either ignore it or to escalate the drama.

blocking or suspension of 3-5 weeks. Slander people, stealing time is a crime everywhere. Will the subject be closed without even apologizing?

The truth is, friends: There are monuments of arrogance that cannot attract each other in this forum. And one of them is Turkish. Delilah is this person's side account.
Not only that, it's a gang that trolls in the forum, has a side account and wants to stir up the forum! These exist both globally and in our forum. Just a day islamicoin has been banned in the forum.

The forum won't be comfortable until it clears such gangs and collaborators.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: Hey there Delilah on September 04, 2019, 04:15:21 PM
Playing the racism card everytime. its too politic. You are ruining our forum with your nepotism. They are abusing merit system. they are using lots of alt accounts. Remember that: 2 month ago there was a DT ''election'' in local forum.  Now there are a

Visipilo
Trust list topic  (they are listing DT list for local. its abusing and pressure for local members)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5178202.msg52241677#msg52241677

Kalemder
Trust list topic (for adding DT to each other. its a abuse)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5179926.0

wolwoo     

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5178202.msg52358568#msg52358568



when some accusation appeared about this issue. They fastly organised for voting opposite flag.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5178202.msg52358255#msg52358255

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5178202.msg52358186#msg52358186


They are using racism card. Because they are know, they are in a fraud. they are oppressive people on local forum. And playing racism card, playing aggrieved role. the evidence is very clear. they abused the system and still continue to abuse.




Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: Vispilio on September 04, 2019, 04:16:12 PM

I don't think banning racism is censorship Loyce, it's just promoting the survival and well being of the human species :).
But it is censorship.  Racial supremacy (whatever the race) is an idea, and if someone can't express that idea because someone is prohibiting people from speaking about it....well, what would you call that if not censorship?  LoyceV is correct.  If free speech is to be protected, it's generally the offensive ideas that need the defense, not inoffensive speech that most people agree with.


interesting side point, I have no objections against free speech, it's meaningful to talk about whether certain races exhibit superiority or some other generalized patterns in some areas.

But using this line of thinking to then create unfair and provably false disadvantages to certain groups, with no regards whatsoever to ethics or due process; this I believe would be a bannable offense in any community or organization.

It's also philosophically incorrect as it would imply reverse causality. The proponents of the racial theories often overlook that while an average statistic about the distribution of a certain race's IQ for example might hold some merit, the fact remains that individual outliers from any race or nationality can still manage to (and do) outshine everyone else.

That is the power of individual genius,
and what philosophers like Hegel would call a momentous, world-historical individual, carrying the human Geist and existence to greater and more beautiful levels of advancement.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: wolwoo on September 04, 2019, 04:24:01 PM
Playing the racism card everytime. its too politic. You are ruining our forum with your nepotism. They are abusing merit system. they are using lots of alt accounts. Remember that: 2 month ago there was a DT ''election'' in local forum.  Now there are a

Visipilo
Trust list topic  (they are listing DT list for local. its abusing and pressure for local members)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5178202.msg52241677#msg52241677

Kalemder
Trust list topic (for adding DT to each other. its a abuse)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5179926.0

wolwoo     

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5178202.msg52358568#msg52358568



when some accusation appeared about this issue. They fastly organised for voting opposite flag.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5178202.msg52358255#msg52358255

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5178202.msg52358186#msg52358186


They are using racism card. Because they are know, they are in a fraud. they are oppressive people on local forum. And playing racism card, playing aggrieved role. the evidence is very clear. they abused the system and still continue to abuse.




You really can't tell. The accusations are directed at all of us, and we need "others" to get confidence.
Tell us what rule we've broken to make the Turkish forum work together as a crime! Besides, it didn't go into practice, because of people like you ...
If we don't trust the people we talk to, who do we give?
If we are not going to fight against the flag against us, what will we unite? Aren't we going to defend self?


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: Foxpup on September 04, 2019, 04:26:05 PM
There is no "organised ethnic hatred" going on. We have nothing against Turks; we hate all trust abusers equally regardless of ethnicity. And we're not even organised: I discovered your trust abuse completely independently of Timelord2067. Are you going to insist there's an innocent explanation for the "irregularities" in your trust lists?


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: wolwoo on September 04, 2019, 04:30:27 PM
There is no "organised ethnic hatred" going on. We have nothing against Turks; we hate all trust abusers equally regardless of ethnicity. And we're not even organised: I discovered your trust abuse completely independently of Timelord2067. Are you going to insist there's an innocent explanation for the "irregularities" in your trust lists?


I'm a Turk. I know Turkish, I use English translate. Who do you think I can add to my trust list?
Is it irregular to include people I talk to every day?
Who is in your trust list? what is your purpose? explain why you add one by one? why does me add distrust to aliens? Although I don't write a word in English!

Heeey. You can't judge us, let everyone judge itself !!!


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: Vispilio on September 04, 2019, 04:31:14 PM
There is no "organised ethnic hatred" going on. We have nothing against Turks; we hate all trust abusers equally regardless of ethnicity. And we're not even organised: I discovered your trust abuse completely independently of Timelord2067. Are you going to insist there's an innocent explanation for the "irregularities" in your trust lists?

oh really, you are so convincing :)... what about this Foxpup:

Who am I?
Well, I know who you are:

youtube.com/watch?v=deEJLVFnWXQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deEJLVFnWXQ)

:P

the moment a Turkish member's name comes up, you trip over yourself to shower the thread with memes & videos of baboons and similar ;),

the moment someone attacks a Turkish member, you shower them with endless merits, no need to play this hide and seek, be free.

Come out an say it: you hate Turkish people, it's liberating :)

and I hate hypocrites and closed-minded individuals, but I'm still intellectually curious to find out the root causes of your hatred...

Good luck.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: suchmoon on September 04, 2019, 04:32:07 PM
blocking or suspension of 3-5 weeks. Slander people, stealing time is a crime everywhere. Will the subject be closed without even apologizing?

Not everywhere, for example slander (and defamation in general) is not a crime where I live. Also keep in mind that defamation is typically defined as an intentionally false and damaging statement of fact, whereas most of the stuff on this forum is opinions. Not sure what you mean about stealing time.

It seems there is a great deal of cultural difference here. Some communities are more tolerant to free speech than others and this forum is definitely on the more tolerant end of the spectrum.



That's before we even get to the actual existence of racism in Timelord's posts. I believe he would just as happily dig into any group of users if he thought there was a conspiracy going on, and he has done so on numerous occasions in the past. You'd think in his many years on this forum his alleged hatred for Turkish users would have surfaced a long time ago.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: wolwoo on September 04, 2019, 04:41:28 PM
blocking or suspension of 3-5 weeks. Slander people, stealing time is a crime everywhere. Will the subject be closed without even apologizing?

Not everywhere, for example slander (and defamation in general) is not a crime where I live. Also keep in mind that defamation is typically defined as an intentionally false and damaging statement of fact, whereas most of the stuff on this forum is opinions. Not sure what you mean about stealing time.

It seems there is a great deal of cultural difference here. Some communities are more tolerant to free speech than others and this forum is definitely on the more tolerant end of the spectrum.



That's before we even get to the actual existence of racism in Timelord's posts. I believe he would just as happily dig into any group of users if he thought there was a conspiracy going on, and he has done so on numerous occasions in the past. You'd think in his many years on this forum his alleged hatred for Turkish users would have surfaced a long time ago.

I have a question for you: why did you add me to your distrust list? What did I do to make you a distrust? Who hated me for you?


please answer honestly


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: LoyceV on September 04, 2019, 04:46:44 PM
That's before we even get to the actual existence of racism in Timelord's posts. I believe he would just as happily dig into any group of users if he thought there was a conspiracy going on, and he has done so on numerous occasions in the past.
Here's an example: Timelord2067 attacking DarkStar_ (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2544574.msg49886492#msg49886492).


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: wolwoo on September 04, 2019, 04:50:44 PM
I trust the person I want
I give merit to the person I want
Do you ask anyone while you do these things? NO!
Then stop judging me and my friends and mute your voice.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: marlboroza on September 04, 2019, 04:50:54 PM
I have a question for you: why did you add me to your distrust list? What did I do to make you a distrust? Who hated me for you?


please answer honestly
Probably because suchmoon doesn't know who you are and doesn't find your trust feedback relevant or does not want to see your sent trust feedback, which are all positive without reference links btw.

As for the flag, it should be created only if you suspect that person might steal your funds or you will lose funds when dealing with flagged account. Moron or not, making very bad connections based on "they distrusted me on the same week so they could be alt accounts" or whatever Timelord2067 wanted to say in that thread is not good reason to flag him so I won't support it.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: Vispilio on September 04, 2019, 05:05:26 PM
As for the flag, it should be created only if you suspect that person might steal your funds or you will lose funds when dealing with flagged account. Moron or not, making very bad connections based on "they distrusted me on the same week so they could be alt accounts" or whatever Timelord2067 wanted to say in that thread is not good reason to flag him so I won't support it.

That's a good point. However if a user has a completely deranged habit of routinely lying and raising wild false accusations, then there should be a flag against them so people don't have to expend time and energy every time to respond to his psychotic babble.

Also it goes without saying such a dishonest unhinged individual cannot be trusted in any financial deal, so I believe the financial warning flag against Timelord2067 is really very relevant.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: suchmoon on September 04, 2019, 05:16:46 PM
I have a question for you: why did you add me to your distrust list? What did I do to make you a distrust? Who hated me for you?

please answer honestly

Not sure how that's relevant to the topic at hand, but it's because of reference-less trust ratings you posted for a large number of users on August 29.




Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: wolwoo on September 04, 2019, 05:31:05 PM
I have a question for you: why did you add me to your distrust list? What did I do to make you a distrust? Who hated me for you?

please answer honestly

Not sure how that's relevant to the topic at hand, but it's because of reference-less trust ratings you posted for a large number of users on August 29.




yes I sent, is it forbidden? I haven't used feedback since the day I became a member. In the light of the information I have gained for 2 and a half years, I wrote feedback to people I trust in the forum. what is the problem? Would it be more ethical if I did it over time? why do you tend to draw bad things out of what people do? What is the main problem? why can't we trust each other and get rid of our prejudices.

Do I have to prove to you and to each member of the forum what I am, who I am?


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: suchmoon on September 04, 2019, 05:46:02 PM
yes I sent, is it forbidden?

No.

I haven't used feedback since the day I became a member. In the light of the information I have gained for 2 and a half years, I wrote feedback to people I trust in the forum. what is the problem?

Lack of references or other indications of how those users are "unlikely to scam anyone".

Would it be more ethical if I did it over time?

Probably not. I didn't say anything about ethics or the significance of timing so this sounds like a loaded question.

why do you tend to draw bad things out of what people do?

I didn't say it's a bad thing. I don't trust your judgement is all.

What is the main problem?

I have a feeling you're gonna try to stretch this towards "racism".

why can't we trust each other and get rid of our prejudices.

Here we go again.

Do I have to prove to you and to each member of the forum what I am, who I am?

You don't have to prove anything. When you do or say stuff on the forum other people may form opinions about that. In fact, if you try too hard you might get unwanted results, so no, don't try to prove anything.



Now can we stay on topic please.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: wolwoo on September 04, 2019, 08:53:25 PM

I'm being charged
I respond, complaining and deleting
hang me, let it end




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLCEUpIg8rE


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: suchmoon on September 05, 2019, 01:08:17 PM
mhanbostanci, ekiller, Kalemder, bobita, Vispilio, wolwoo, gospodin, El-Cezeri, DragonDance

I think this flag (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=702) constitutes abuse of the trust system. There are no "concrete red flags which any knowledgeable & reasonable forum user should agree with" and it appears to be based on your opinion that Timelord2067 is racist and that racism means high risk of losing money when dealing with Timelord2067.

Just making it clear so that there is no misunderstanding why you all ended up on my distrust list, until you remove your support for the flag or bring evidence of trading with Timelord2067 being high-risk.

BTW I have opposed flags created by Timelord2067 and excluded him too.



Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: wolwoo on September 05, 2019, 02:03:29 PM
mhanbostanci, ekiller, Kalemder, bobita, Vispilio, wolwoo, gospodin, El-Cezeri, DragonDance

I think this flag (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=702) constitutes abuse of the trust system. There are no "concrete red flags which any knowledgeable & reasonable forum user should agree with" and it appears to be based on your opinion that Timelord2067 is racist and that racism means high risk of losing money when dealing with Timelord2067.

Just making it clear so that there is no misunderstanding why you all ended up on my distrust list, until you remove your support for the flag or bring evidence of trading with Timelord2067 being high-risk.

BTW I have opposed flags created by Timelord2067 and excluded him too.



My English is not enough 🤷‍♂️ I hope I'll be right.
Why did Timelord2067 open a topic and add only Turks? Already a limited number of members of the Turkish section. Probably a malicious Turk whispered something to him.
I'm not saying the Turkish forum is perfect. We have problems too. There are trolls and messing around, how many times has EFS intervened? We have no source of merit. Vispilio raised a topic here and asked you to send merit. Thanks for your help.
I also thank you for not supporting Timelord2067's flag. If Timelord2067 raises the flag, I will. Because he was the first one to attack.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: suchmoon on September 05, 2019, 02:13:04 PM
Because he was the first one to attack.

Tell that to you teacher next time you get into a playground fight.

Seriously, grow the fuck up, the lot of you.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: wolwoo on September 05, 2019, 02:16:22 PM
Because he was the first one to attack.

Tell that to you teacher next time you get into a playground fight.

Seriously, grow the fuck up, the lot of you.
If someone distrusts you and opens a flag, you give her flowers?


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: LoyceV on September 05, 2019, 02:19:57 PM
Because he was the first one to attack.
Tell that to you teacher next time you get into a playground fight.
Seriously, grow the fuck up, the lot of you.
If someone distrusts you and opens a flag, you give her flowers?
Irrelevant! Being on DT means you should have a thicker skin. So what if someone on the internet doesn't like you?
Leave Neutral feedback if you want, that's what it's for.

Want an example? Go read LoyceV - robovac. low worth, low achieving, sig spamming fool. - REAL DEBATE (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5141539.0). I've Merited the OP for making a great (but complete BS) post. That's how you handle "fights" on the internet. Why would you even care about unimportant people? Just laugh it off and go on with your life.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: wolwoo on September 05, 2019, 02:27:11 PM
As long as the flag Timelord2067 opens stops, I reserve the right to flag it as well. I can't tolerate someone if it's wrong to me. That would increase his courage. Let him understand his mistake and give up. I don't think he'il apologize, but at least raise the flag.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: LoyceV on September 05, 2019, 02:30:15 PM
As long as the flag Timelord2067 opens stops, I reserve the right to flag it as well.
You should read Trust flags (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5153344.0). You can't reserve the right to abuse Flags on Bitcontalk.

Quote
I can't tolerate someone if it's wrong to me.
That's the part about the "thicker skin" I mentioned. Just Oppose his Flag and move on.

https://thefireescapeartist.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/someone-is-wrong-on-internet.png
(source (https://theescapeartist.me/2018/09/24/hold-everything-someone-is-wrong-on-the-internet/))


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: Vispilio on September 05, 2019, 02:32:00 PM

Just making it clear so that there is no misunderstanding why you all ended up on my distrust list, until you remove your support for the flag or bring evidence of trading with Timelord2067 being high-risk.

BTW I have opposed flags created by Timelord2067 and excluded him too.


do you want the forum to be a place where anyone with too much time on their hands can make up an unlimited number of insane stories and flags targeting any group of people, and the only repercussion is people either ignore or oppose his flag;

while that flag remains on the profile of everyone he targets forever, and is the first question asked towards the innocent people in all their future forum activities (not to mention all the other ridiculous threads he made about the Turkish section, which people have inquired about personally to me many times already).

This q is directed at both you and @theymos, the architect of the trust system, would you like a system where moronic trolls wield unlimited power to taint the reputation of high quality forum members, and all of this is promoted in an extremely stretched interpretation of "free speech", while that same free speech is punished with negative trust when naturally the innocent parties finally defend themselves.

I trust any smart independent observer can see the inherent absurdity of this.

Right now as it stands, if you want to destroy someone in the forum, make up nasty lies and insults about him, and when he finally comes up to defend himself, put him on your distrust list and call it censorship and abuse instead of self defense.

I trust @theymos appreciates the notion that if Flag 1 is exclusively reserved for financial scams,

then there must be a new type of flag highlighting the extremely poor judgement and reasoning skills of certain abusive and perverse individuals, so that trolls like Timelord2067 cannot steal the time and future financial proclivity of innocent people anymore.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: wolwoo on September 05, 2019, 02:35:43 PM
As long as the flag Timelord2067 opens stops, I reserve the right to flag it as well.
You should read Trust flags (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5153344.0). You can't reserve the right to abuse Flags on Bitcontalk.

Quote
I can't tolerate someone if it's wrong to me.
That's the part about the "thicker skin" I mentioned. Just Oppose his Flag and move on.

https://thefireescapeartist.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/someone-is-wrong-on-internet.png
(source (https://theescapeartist.me/2018/09/24/hold-everything-someone-is-wrong-on-the-internet/))
Well, since you do. I will remove the Timelord2067 flag. I hope he returns from his mistake. Because I'm not a belligerent grump.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: Kalemder on September 05, 2019, 02:39:47 PM
In my opinion, a racist person is prone to swindle and harm people. So I support the flag. This is my opinion and freedom of opinion.

He blames all active and valuable Turkish members. This is clearly racism. He's been doing this for a long time. Nobody clearly insults a nation. It organizes conspiracies in this way.

@Timerlord, My request is to make peace and know each other better. The Turks are not enemies. We're people like you. I'm sure we'il understand each other as we talk.The members spoken here are valuable members. They all add value to the community.
Nobody has any bad intentions. Nobody's been a fraud.
There's no point in breaking a heart.

Cheers!


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: suchmoon on September 05, 2019, 02:46:15 PM
As long as the flag Timelord2067 opens stops, I reserve the right to flag it as well. I can't tolerate someone if it's wrong to me. That would increase his courage. Let him understand his mistake and give up. I don't think he'il apologize, but at least raise the flag.
You can oppose a flag if it's incorrect. Creating/supporting a retaliatory flag solely because you can't tolerate someone being wrong is not the correct use of the trust system.

do you want the forum to be a place where anyone with too much time on their hands can make up an unlimited number of insane stories and flags targeting any group of people, and the only repercussion is people either ignore or oppose his flag;
That's how it's always been and I (like everyone else) can choose to live with it or leave. I prefer the freedom of speech allowed by the forum even if at times I don't like some expressions of it.

while that flag remains on the profile of everyone he targets forever, and is the first question asked towards the innocent people in all their future forum activities.
The flag is inactive. If anyone asks about it - point out the long list of users opposing it and explain that the flag is incorrect.

Right now as it stands, if you want to destroy someone in the forum, make up nasty lies and insults about him, and when he finally comes up to defend himself, put him on your distrust list and call it censorship and abuse instead of self defense.
Many users have bullshit inactive flags and bullshit untrusted red ratings - comes with the territory. However retaliatory flags and ratings have always been frowned upon and that is not appropriate "defense".


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: LoyceMobile on September 05, 2019, 02:46:34 PM
In my opinion, a racist person is prone to swindle and harm people. So I support the flag. This is my opinion and freedom of opinion.
Lol, the Flag literally states it's not based on the user's opinion.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: Vispilio on September 05, 2019, 02:49:12 PM
Irrelevant! Being on DT means you should have a thicker skin. So what if someone on the internet doesn't like you?
Leave Neutral feedback if you want, that's what it's for.

Want an example? Go read LoyceV - robovac. low worth, low achieving, sig spamming fool. - REAL DEBATE (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5141539.0). I've Merited the OP for making a great (but complete BS) post. That's how you handle "fights" on the internet. Why would you even care about unimportant people? Just laugh it off and go on with your life.

I couldn't care less about what an internet troll thinks about me Loyce, but his trolling does have real life financial repercussions.

When we want to manage a bounty, lottery, auction or participate in one in the future for example, the first question that will be asked is "hey why do you have flags or negative trust raised against you, sorry we gotta go with someone else" just to give you one example...

the insane ramblings of a moron should not have this much financial influence, if it does, there is clearly something wrong with the system and it's not working as intended.

You guys probably don't notice how toxic this can be because most of the DT1 core members have known eachother for years and all have glamorous reviews of each other so the slander by a few nasty trolls towards you guys don't matter,

but do you not want any new comers to ever benefit from the activities in BTT, should it remain an exclusive old boys network because of some nasty troll bullshit ?.. I hope you are a little bit more inclusive & open-minded than that.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: suchmoon on September 05, 2019, 02:53:00 PM
When we want to manage a bounty, lottery, auction or participate in one in the future for example, the first question that will be asked is "hey why do you have flags or negative trust raised against you, sorry we gotta go with someone else" just to give you one example...

Even if that were true, which I doubt since Timelord's flag on you is inactive, your retaliatory flag does nothing to change that.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: wolwoo on September 05, 2019, 02:57:55 PM
I got off this flag. I hope you don't misjudge us. We're not bad people. I've just been wronged and we're sorry, I'm a little angry. I can get a reaction from my friends, I respect them.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: tmfp on September 05, 2019, 03:59:47 PM

I couldn't care less about what an internet troll thinks about me

The extreme rhetoric that you have employed in your description of the subject rather contradicts that.

Quote
...but his trolling does have real life financial repercussions.
When we want to manage a bounty, lottery, auction or participate in one in the future for example, the first question that will be asked is "hey why do you have flags or negative trust raised against you, sorry we gotta go with someone else"

Are there any active flags or negative trust currently applying to any of the Turkish members due to Timelord's actions?
As Suchmoon points out, even if there were then your flag on him wouldn't alter that.

You seem to be trying to satisfy the financial conditions of your flag

Quote
I believe that anyone dealing with Timelord2067 is at a high risk of losing money

by making this claim, as well as by the more general (and emotively charged) one in your original post

Quote
If historical events are any guide, I'm reasonably convinced that there is a great correlation between exhibiting irrational hate & persecution towards certain groups and committing financial crimes against them, so I believe the flag against this deeply unstable stalker called Timelord2067 is appropriate from a financial perspective as well.

and I personally don't think you have achieved that, but I won't be "voting" on any of the outstanding flags in this saga as none of them (rightly) stands any chance of success and are best forgotten.

For what my opinion is worth, your extreme reaction to Timelord and his posts may be counter productive for your general credibility, on the basis that it reinforces the view of onlookers that "there's no smoke without fire".
 



Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: Vispilio on September 05, 2019, 04:04:38 PM

Even if that were true, which I doubt since Timelord's flag on you is inactive, your retaliatory flag does nothing to change that.

It's not retaliatory, I only found out about the poor and extremely unreliable judgement skills of Timelord2067 after reading his insane babble about me and the Turkish section. I was actually very surprised to find out he made it into legendary rank without being deeply red painted or kicked off the forum much earlier...

I don't want any other innocent person to fall victim to his obsessive endless patterns of toxic false accusations and be dissuaded from taking active part on this forum, thus the flag.
If @theymos makes a new flag type concerning the quality of judgement of a user, I would swap it with that; something like:

"There are multiple reported instances of factual and provably false fallacies in the judgement and reasoning skills of this user; his feedback on others should be taken with great reservation, and people dealing with him should beware his factual incompetence might spill into future financial mistakes as well."


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: suchmoon on September 05, 2019, 04:55:18 PM
If @theymos makes a new flag type concerning the quality of judgement of a user, I would swap it with that; something like:

"There are multiple reported instances of factual and provably false fallacies in the judgement and reasoning skills of this user; his feedback on others should be taken with great reservation, and people dealing with him should beware his factual incompetence might spill into future financial mistakes as well."

There is such a thing - it's called neutral trust feedback and it covers anything you want to say about a person that doesn't fall into positive or negative trust guidelines, or any of the flag types.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: TECSHARE on September 06, 2019, 05:32:26 AM
This is not what these flags are for. You are free to leave ratings on his profile if you insist, but this is also frowned upon unless the intent is to prevent fraud. This has nothing to do with fraud and is just retribution for a disagreement, righteous or otherwise. You can not use flags like this because it devalues the entire rating system. This is an invalid flag that reflects more poorly on its creator than its target.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: lighpulsar07 on September 06, 2019, 08:34:48 AM
snip thank you for your beautiful speech mr. vispilio /sarcasm...

I don't want to read these dramas. but i think this is necessary to reply on this thread Mr. Vispilio, you are clearly wrong here launching a retaliatory flag against timelord is clearly an abuse that's why suchmoon et. al. opposed your flag against timelord and also, they opposed timelord's flag against you. Trust Flags are made for scammers not for personal vendetta just because you were falsely accused of account farming.

Trust Flags can valid only if the user:

a. scammed/stole money.
b. running a shady service that risks people's money/BTC. (perfect example game-protect's service).
c. who broke a written contract that results of financial damages to contract creator.

I suggest that you should withdraw the flag against timelord's or leave a negative feedback to timelord just to calm your personal vendetta against him (this is why theymos didn't remove feedbacks) and stop attacking DTs for opposing that invalid flag that you created. in that way, you won't turn yourself into self entitled asshole.



Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: Vispilio on September 06, 2019, 08:37:02 AM
This is not what these flags are for. You are free to leave ratings on his profile if you insist, but this is also frowned upon unless the intent is to prevent fraud. This has nothing to do with fraud and is just retribution for a disagreement, righteous or otherwise. You can not use flags like this because it devalues the entire rating system. This is an invalid flag that reflects more poorly on its creator than its target.

Funny I don't recall you (or anyone for that matter) making this beautifully virtuous and enlightened comment when Timelord2067 just the other day opened not 1 but 7 abusive flags that "devalue the entire rating system"

How would you suggest I should respond, when there is blatantly obvious double standards and highly selective treatment going on, to the complete detriment of the local section participants of the forum, who have not, as of yet (and also because of lack of interest for the incessant dramas) been very active in meta & reputation...


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: LoyceV on September 06, 2019, 10:57:11 AM
Funny I don't recall you (or anyone for that matter) making this beautifully virtuous and enlightened comment when Timelord2067 just the other day opened not 1 but 7 abusive flags that "devalue the entire rating system"
You were on DT2, that makes all the difference.

One by one, the Supporters of your Flag are dropping off DT, just like theymos wanted:
Creating or supporting a scammer flag is actively affirming a set of pretty clear fact-statements. If someone knowingly supports a flag containing incorrect fact-statements, then that is crystal-clear abuse, and I will seek to have such people removed from DT ASAP. People who are habitually wrong, even not knowingly, should also be removed.
Was it worth it? I'd say it's a waste of DT-powers :(

double standards
DT-members are held to higher standards.

selective treatment
I don't see any DT-members support Timelord2067's Flags:

Quote
2019-09-06 Fri 03.18h
source: loyce.club (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/103.html)

695 Insufficient support. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=695) Timelord2067 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/131361.html) flagged Vispilio (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/982288.html) (type 1, see why (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5181603.0)). Supported by Timelord2067 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/131361.html). Opposed by  malevolent (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/23092.html), suchmoon (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/234771.html), goraset (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/158678.html), mhanbostanci (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/434984.html), mindrust (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/176777.html), Lutpin (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/520313.html), marlboroza (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/787736.html), Kalemder (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/487377.html), wolwoo (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1003533.html), AlyattesLydia (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1046135.html), teeGUMES (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/307884.html), PHI1618 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1071136.html), gospodin (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1339358.html), Bthd (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1836948.html), shasan (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1883627.html), Vispilio (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/982288.html), El-Cezeri (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1277439.html), DragonDance (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/2615217.html).

696 Insufficient support. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=696) Timelord2067 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/131361.html) flagged wolwoo (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1003533.html) (type 1, see why (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5181603.0)). Supported by Timelord2067 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/131361.html). Opposed by  suchmoon (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/234771.html), goraset (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/158678.html), mhanbostanci (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/434984.html), mindrust (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/176777.html), Lutpin (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/520313.html), marlboroza (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/787736.html), Kalemder (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/487377.html), wolwoo (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1003533.html), Matthias9515 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1018510.html), AlyattesLydia (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1046135.html), teeGUMES (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/307884.html), PHI1618 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1071136.html), gospodin (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1339358.html), Bthd (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1836948.html), shasan (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1883627.html), ekiller (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/667791.html), Vispilio (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/982288.html), lighpulsar07 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/880374.html), El-Cezeri (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1277439.html), DragonDance (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/2615217.html).

697 Insufficient support. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=697) Timelord2067 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/131361.html) flagged ekiller (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/667791.html) (type 1, see why (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5181603.0)). Supported by Timelord2067 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/131361.html). Opposed by  EFS (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/140584.html), suchmoon (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/234771.html), goraset (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/158678.html), mhanbostanci (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/434984.html), mindrust (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/176777.html), Lutpin (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/520313.html), marlboroza (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/787736.html), Kalemder (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/487377.html), wolwoo (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1003533.html), Matthias9515 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1018510.html), AlyattesLydia (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1046135.html), teeGUMES (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/307884.html), PHI1618 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1071136.html), gospodin (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1339358.html), Bthd (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1836948.html), shasan (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1883627.html), ekiller (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/667791.html), Vispilio (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/982288.html), El-Cezeri (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1277439.html), DragonDance (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/2615217.html).

698 Insufficient support. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=698) Timelord2067 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/131361.html) flagged Kalemder (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/487377.html) (type 1, see why (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5181603.0)). Supported by Timelord2067 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/131361.html). Opposed by  suchmoon (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/234771.html), goraset (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/158678.html), mhanbostanci (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/434984.html), mindrust (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/176777.html), Lutpin (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/520313.html), Kalemder (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/487377.html), wolwoo (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1003533.html), Matthias9515 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1018510.html), AlyattesLydia (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1046135.html), teeGUMES (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/307884.html), PHI1618 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1071136.html), gospodin (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1339358.html), Bthd (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1836948.html), shasan (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1883627.html), ekiller (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/667791.html), Vispilio (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/982288.html), El-Cezeri (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1277439.html), DragonDance (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/2615217.html).

699 Insufficient support. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=699) Timelord2067 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/131361.html) flagged gospodin (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1339358.html) (type 1, see why (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5181603.0)). Supported by Timelord2067 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/131361.html). Opposed by  suchmoon (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/234771.html), goraset (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/158678.html), mhanbostanci (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/434984.html), mindrust (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/176777.html), Lutpin (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/520313.html), marlboroza (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/787736.html), Kalemder (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/487377.html), wolwoo (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1003533.html), Matthias9515 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1018510.html), AlyattesLydia (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1046135.html), teeGUMES (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/307884.html), PHI1618 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1071136.html), gospodin (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1339358.html), Bthd (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1836948.html), shasan (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1883627.html), Vispilio (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/982288.html), lighpulsar07 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/880374.html), El-Cezeri (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1277439.html), DragonDance (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/2615217.html).

700 Insufficient support. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=700) Timelord2067 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/131361.html) flagged PHI1618 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1071136.html) (type 1, see why (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5181603.0)). Supported by Timelord2067 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/131361.html). Opposed by  suchmoon (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/234771.html), goraset (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/158678.html), mhanbostanci (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/434984.html), mindrust (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/176777.html), Lutpin (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/520313.html), Kalemder (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/487377.html), wolwoo (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1003533.html), Matthias9515 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1018510.html), AlyattesLydia (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1046135.html), teeGUMES (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/307884.html), PHI1618 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1071136.html), gospodin (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1339358.html), Bthd (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1836948.html), shasan (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1883627.html), Vispilio (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/982288.html), El-Cezeri (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1277439.html), DragonDance (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/2615217.html).

701 Insufficient support. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=701) Timelord2067 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/131361.html) flagged El-Cezeri (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1277439.html) (type 1, see why (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5181603.0)). Supported by Timelord2067 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/131361.html). Opposed by  suchmoon (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/234771.html), mindrust (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/176777.html), Lutpin (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/520313.html), Kalemder (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/487377.html), wolwoo (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1003533.html), Matthias9515 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1018510.html), AlyattesLydia (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1046135.html), teeGUMES (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/307884.html), PHI1618 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1071136.html), Bthd (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1836948.html), shasan (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1883627.html), ekiller (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/667791.html), Vispilio (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/982288.html), El-Cezeri (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1277439.html), DragonDance (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/2615217.html).

The same can't be said about your Flag:
Quote
702 Insufficient support. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=702) Vispilio (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/982288.html) flagged Timelord2067 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/131361.html) (type 1, see why (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5181723.0)). Supported by mhanbostanci (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/434984.html), Kalemder (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/487377.html), bobita (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/963279.html), gospodin (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1339358.html), ekiller (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/667791.html), Vispilio (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/982288.html), El-Cezeri (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1277439.html), DragonDance (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/2615217.html). Opposed by  Foxpup (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/55384.html), malevolent (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/23092.html), suchmoon (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/234771.html), LoyceV (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/459836.html), mindrust (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/176777.html), Lutpin (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/520313.html), teeGUMES (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/307884.html), shasan (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1883627.html), DireWolfM14 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/2003859.html), hacker1001101001 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1021758.html), lighpulsar07 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/880374.html), rhomelmabini (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/1255873.html).



See IsTimelord2067onDTyet.tk (http://istimelord2067ondtyet.tk).


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: Vispilio on September 06, 2019, 11:59:04 AM

One by one, the Supporters of your Flag are dropping off DT, just like theymos wanted:
Creating or supporting a scammer flag is actively affirming a set of pretty clear fact-statements. If someone knowingly supports a flag containing incorrect fact-statements, then that is crystal-clear abuse, and I will seek to have such people removed from DT ASAP. People who are habitually wrong, even not knowingly, should also be removed.
Was it worth it? I'd say it's a waste of DT-powers :(


You are quoting theymos' comments on the far stronger `scammer`flag, I opened a `high-risk` individual flag, you know this LoyceV, why would you introduce a 100% false premise into your argument like that :) ?..

Anyways I don't think there is any power to be had in these DT dramas. I think it's an empty illusion,
and I really would like this illusion to NOT cast a very real shadow on my legitimate activities on this forum.

You are correct there is considerable support for my flag. There will be far more if we keep going like this as more and more independent people find out there are serious judgement and logical errors in the conduct of some DT1 members. But frankly I couldn't care less.

You and I both know very well, LoyceV, that there are a number of DT1 members as we speak, who are in 100% agreement with the slanderous behavior of timelord2067. I hope you are a consistent enough man to subject them to the same lofty "paragon of virtue" standards that you are expecting from me.

If, despite all of these legitimate points in our favor, the global community still feels strongly that the minor procedural controversy in my "high-risk" individual flag outweighs everything else, I'm very happy to withdraw it, it means nothing to me.

All the Best


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: Kalemder on September 06, 2019, 12:30:59 PM
Racism is a bad business. If you have doubts about people talk to them before. It's not good to slander them. I think that's understood. Let's not waste any more time with these dramas. Thank you to everyone.

I deleted support. I think @Timer he realized that he had made a mistake.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: tmfp on September 06, 2019, 12:51:01 PM
Racism is a bad business.
I agree with you.
So are accusations like
Quote
Organized Ethnic Hatred
Quote
There are, undeniably, several nasty weirdos like this in the forum trying to conduct a systematic abuse against all high ranking Turkish members
made in reaction to claims made by one member in flags which attracted no support whatsoever from the wider community.

Let's not waste any more time with these dramas.

+1


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: TECSHARE on September 06, 2019, 04:37:49 PM
This is not what these flags are for. You are free to leave ratings on his profile if you insist, but this is also frowned upon unless the intent is to prevent fraud. This has nothing to do with fraud and is just retribution for a disagreement, righteous or otherwise. You can not use flags like this because it devalues the entire rating system. This is an invalid flag that reflects more poorly on its creator than its target.

Funny I don't recall you (or anyone for that matter) making this beautifully virtuous and enlightened comment when Timelord2067 just the other day opened not 1 but 7 abusive flags that "devalue the entire rating system"

How would you suggest I should respond, when there is blatantly obvious double standards and highly selective treatment going on, to the complete detriment of the local section participants of the forum, who have not, as of yet (and also because of lack of interest for the incessant dramas) been very active in meta & reputation...

I had no knowledge of these flags. Upon review they are also invalid, so I have opposed all of them except for one which seems to be a valid application regardless if it is correct or not. You are both wrong. Timelord2067 is known to be overzealous with his use of the trust system, as a result he is heavily excluded. Unless you drop this flag and stop using the flag system this way, you are destined to join him. Unfortunately drama is an indivisible part of managing the trust system here and it is something you will have to learn to deal with. In the future I would suggest simply starting a thread over the issue and discussing your complaints publicly rather than jumping right to abusing the trust system. If you can argue your point, and you are correct in your assertions, people will generally support you.


EDIT (Re: Vispilio) : I see that you have now withdrawn your flag. Thank you for being reasonable. This is the kind of behavior that gets you more respect from the community when you demonstrate your willingness to cooperate and follow the terms of the system in place. Timelord2067 is known to go too far, and as a result his reputation suffers, there is no reason to join him.

EDIT #2 (Re: Timelord2067 ) : I just noticed this on my trust ratings page -

Timelord2067: "Users, such as your good self, sit back and say nothing when you could in fact have stepped up to the crease/plate and guided my posts. Then, far too late, want to lecture from on high."

This is why no one ever steps up to say shit, because of people like you with the mentality of children who pout when they are told they are wrong and lash out. I am not your babysitter. I have no obligation to look after you or anyone else here. When I have free time I review some of these posts.

Sit back? Really? I have been one of the most, if not the most vocal long time opponent of trust system abuse on this forum to the point of paying continual personal costs in the form of being stalked and abused by the people I have called attention to for their abuse.

I learned a long time ago that your ratings were unreliable and frankly just mostly ignore them. I was satisfied to mind my own business since it seems to be motivated from genuine overzealous mistakes and not a need to abuse other users for retribution, however I think you are changing my mind. Maybe I will decide to be more active in monitoring your activities if that is really what you want. Is that what you want sweet summer child?

P.S. Please just get rid of that childish retaliatory rating. You have every right to leave it if you insist on acting like a child, just don't be surprised when you get treated like a child.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: TECSHARE on September 08, 2019, 06:32:52 AM
and again...


Timelord2067: "TECSHARE has made a very thinly veiled threat to stalk me unless I remove my *neutral* trust/feedback post (last paragraph and his "PS") in this now archived post:

https://web.archive.org/web/20190908033629/https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5181723.msg52379325 "

Yes, everyone knows threats are often proceeded by "please". Hey cupcake, you are the one who suggested I was responsible for guiding you. You literally suggested I should have been monitoring you. Can you make up your mind what you want or do you just spew words meaninglessly? Have a discussion with me like an adult in the thread instead of shitting up my trust page with your spazz out little boy.


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: Vod on September 08, 2019, 09:56:52 AM
Timelord2067: "TECSHARE has made a very thinly veiled threat to stalk me unless I remove my *neutral* trust/feedback post (last paragraph and his "PS") in this now archived post:

Should be negative, not neutral.  :/


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: TECSHARE on September 08, 2019, 03:50:35 PM
Timelord2067: "TECSHARE has made a very thinly veiled threat to stalk me unless I remove my *neutral* trust/feedback post (last paragraph and his "PS") in this now archived post:

Should be negative, not neutral.  :/

Cool story insane canukistani stalker. Didn't you literally just get done lecturing me about ethics?


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: Hhampuz on September 08, 2019, 10:01:03 PM
Keep your head up Timelord, if you'd go through life without encountering haters you would be doing something wrong. Fuck this noise and look forward :).


Title: Re: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067
Post by: xtraelv on September 10, 2019, 10:47:32 AM
Let me preface this by that I have a lot of Turkish friends and customers.

My dislike and distrust of Timelord2067 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5105851.msg49797331#msg49797331)  is also reasonably well known.

But I have to disagree with reason given for the flag.

I think there is a mis-understanding over the purpose of the flags.
Theymos was quite clear that flags should relate to trade related issues only.

It's the end of Trust Tags Relate to Opinion Conflicts
You should give these ratings for anything which you think would impact someone's willingness to trade with the person, but you should not use trust ratings to attack a person's opinions or otherwise talk about things which would not be relevant to reasonable prospective traders.

Abuse on Flags should be avoided
Creating or supporting a scammer flag is actively affirming a set of pretty clear fact-statements. If someone knowingly supports a flag containing incorrect fact-statements, then that is crystal-clear abuse, and I will seek to have such people removed from DT ASAP. People who are habitually wrong, even not knowingly, should also be removed.

The point is to damage the person's forum existence in order to deter future scamming. This is a very serious action which should have a very high bar.
As I mentioned in the flags topic, there are three very separate scopes for trust which need to be kept separate. For scammer flags, the point is to damage the person's forum existence in order to deter future scamming. This is a very serious action which should have a very high bar. Because it's so serious, I only want actual agreements considered here. In legal systems, there's additionally such a thing as tort law and statutory law, but the forum is very far from having the kind of cohesive legal system which could handle such things in a halfway-reasonable way. The only thing that approaches clear-cut scamming is violation of an agreement. If non-contractual offenses are allowed in the scammer-flag space, then we're going to get factions of forum users constantly fighting each other, which is exactly what I'm trying to stop. I'm sick and tired of big escalations and never-ending feuds over highly-subjective and/or relatively minor things.

For non-agreement issues, use a newbie-warning flag and give them a negative trust rating. These actions are in the different scopes of warning newbies or informing other users of your opinions, which have less severe consequences and therefore lower bars.

I hate having to "defend" BSV and BCH, which were created with deception in mind, are technologically bankrupt, and are run by huge assholes, but you can't say that their supporters broke a contract with you when they didn't. Give them a newbie-warning flag if you want, but not a contract-violation flag unless they actually broke a contract with you. (Note that you might have a case for breach of implied contract if you were actually tricked into buying one of these coins instead of BTC.)



Flags
However repugnant you find someones opinion - flags should not be used for non trading issues.

Trust ratings
Trust ratings (also referred to as tags) - positive, neutral and negative trust is more flexible as to what it covers.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5099391.msg49306851#msg49306851

Trust list
Likewise your trust list (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust) can be used to indicate which people you distrust by adding a ~ before their names.

You can find your trust list here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust