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Author Topic: [Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067  (Read 1368 times)
Vispilio
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September 04, 2019, 02:21:50 PM
Last edit: September 10, 2019, 12:28:29 PM by Vispilio
Merited by LoyceV (2), xtraelv (1), Husires (1)
 #1

The incessant and repetitive prejudice, insults & lies thrown indiscriminately against all the Turkish high ranking members have become so tedious and outrageous that finally I have to open a thread and flag about it.

The Turkish section proposes user ~Timelord2067 to be excluded from all trust lists, so his constant immoral and malevolent activities cannot harm an entire local section of the forum as well its overall integrity.

Flag against Timelord2067 here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=702
(Update: flag is now withdrawn purely based on the procedural objections raised by many valuable members through this thread & elsewhere).


First of all a brief prelude:

The fact remains that any high ranking Turkish member who ever makes it to the top 150 of these DT selections will get instantly tagged by 3-4 people that he has never interacted with. When anyone points the absurdity of this out, he will also get tagged by another 3-4 guys, in a crazy organized scheme to prevent their future participation in any Default Trust selections...

A mere glance at the trust list history of any high ranking Turkish member will instantly demonstrate to you the existence of these mysterious distrusters... With some of them we have conducted an amicable and intellectual dialogue and resolved all misunderstandings,
so in particular I personally thank @owlcatz, @klaaas and @lauda for their commendable and empathetic moral behavior.


For the last 10 days or so, however, user Timelord2067, has dedicated what I believe the entirety of his leisure time to what he calls "collecting evidence" against the Turkish section.

His ludicrously deranged methods include stalking every high ranking Turkish member on a daily basis, going through their entire merit history, post history, thread history, even message edit history and countless other minor details, and after spending an endless amount of hours doing these, coming up with many many long posts containing the crudest lies, misinterpretations and false translations of these archives to always arrive at the same boring vacant conclusion:

that everything ever done by the Turkish members is an "evidence" to a conspiracy or fraud or scam attempt or an otherwise criminal activity...

What's even more surprising to me is that the undeniably hateful and racist activities by this obvious childish troll astonishingly find considerable support from some members that we previously thought to be level-headed and intellectual core forum participants; therefore leading me to very unwillingly commit the time and energy to open a flag on this matter rather than simply ignoring the few deeply disturbed trolls of the forum...


I've made a special appeal to theymos and all honorable DT1 members to decisively address the issue on a recent response:

Dear Theymos & well meaning DT1 members,

One of the greatest threats to the well being of this forum is idle trolls like Timelord2067 who have an astonishing amount of empty leisure time on their hands, and their hidden enablers, who have a well-concealed deep seated prejudice against certain nationalities and take a sadistic pleasure in seeing certain local parts of the forum routinely disparaged and persecuted...

Every allegation the nasty troll Timelord2067 raised against me and the Turkish section has been refuted with ample evidence, you can read my many responses to him in the following links:

1) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5154371.msg52300298#msg52300298

2) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5098623.msg52294272#msg52294272

3) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5178814.msg52280763#msg52280763


User Timelord2067 is already on the ignore and distrust list of many Turkish users; since he has no intentions of stopping his hateful campaign of stalking, misrepresenting (with false auto translate services) and outright lying about the Turkish part of the forum, we will immediately proceed to open a flag about him now.

Looking forward to the final resolution of this matter, as the most boring part of participating in this great forum for me is having to deal with  hateful and completely vacant NPC trolls like him and their secret and not so secret promoters...


And I hereby inform the respectable BTT community that I am opening a flag against ~Timelord2067 and will continue to tag users who like to persecute people based on their nationality or anthropological backgrounds...


EDIT based on some feedback regarding flags: If historical events are any guide, I'm reasonably convinced that there is a great correlation between exhibiting irrational hate & persecution towards certain groups and committing financial crimes against them, so I believe the flag against this deeply unstable stalker called Timelord2067 is appropriate from a financial perspective as well.

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wolwoo
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September 04, 2019, 02:41:19 PM
 #2

Thanks @Vispilio
Why are people hostile to each other? Is that Satoshi's dream? Lie, slander, hate, instinct to destroy ...
If we've done something wrong, we want fair defense. Those who will judge us should at least allow us to make our defense. You can't slander people whose language you don't know and call them "justice."
I want justice I want justice

You've seen "12 angry men." You can also execute us (the green mile), free and leave free (The Shawshank Redemption). You will determine the end of this film.


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September 04, 2019, 02:54:59 PM
Merited by Foxpup (3), xtraelv (1), DireWolfM14 (1)
 #3

Since I'm dragged into this, I'll respond.

I did see Timelord2067's thread already, and my initial suspicion of (Google) translation errors was confirmed by ekiller. I left it at that, as I don't have the time (nor desire) to check out all details in that thread before I can decide to Support or Oppose the Flags.

However, your Flag is clearly incorrect. I see no reason in this topic why this would be true:
Quote
Due largely to the factors mentioned in this topic, I believe that anyone dealing with Timelord2067 is at a high risk of losing money, and guests would be well-advised to avoid doing so. This determination is based on concrete red flags which any knowledgeable & reasonable forum user should agree with, and it is not based on the user's opinions.
Therefore, I have Opposed the Flag.

I think you're misunderstanding some of the basic freedoms this forum offers: it offers the freedom to offend people, be a racist, and show hatred. I've seen those freedoms abused, but that doesn't mean those freedoms shouldn't be defended. There are many forums on the internet where freedom of speech is limited, and I very much value the freedoms we have here. That doesn't mean I necessarily agree or oppose those views, it's just how this forum works.

I don't expect theymos to get involved here, unless this happens:
Creating or supporting a scammer flag is actively affirming a set of pretty clear fact-statements. If someone knowingly supports a flag containing incorrect fact-statements, then that is crystal-clear abuse, and I will seek to have such people removed from DT ASAP. People who are habitually wrong, even not knowingly, should also be removed.

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September 04, 2019, 03:19:53 PM
 #4


I think you're misunderstanding some of the basic freedoms this forum offers: it offers the freedom to offend people, be a racist, and show hatred. I've seen those freedoms abused, but that doesn't mean those freedoms shouldn't be defended. There are many forums on the internet where freedom of speech is limited, and I very much value the freedoms we have here. That doesn't mean I necessarily agree or oppose those views, it's just how this forum works.


ok if racism, thought to be one of the greatest evils on the planet and strongly forbidden by all civilized nations, their constitutions and laws, is permitted here for the sake of the total boundless freedom of creative thought, I'm fine with that.

Having said that, you publicly defending and promoting this in this case, LoyceV, condones a very dangerous premise for the integrity of this forum, and contrary to your initial gut feeling, it does follow that people dealing with Timelord2067 are at risk of great monetary loss, and the flag is very appropriate because I'm sure a knowledgeable individual like you can find ample correlation in history between prejudice / persecution and financial crimes.

People prone to irrational hateful behavior will not hesitate to exhibit that blind prejudice in monetary matters as well, so a smart community should be vigilant against dealing with these vacant NPC's like Timelord2067...

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Hey there Delilah
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September 04, 2019, 03:24:30 PM
Last edit: September 04, 2019, 03:57:05 PM by Hey there Delilah
 #5

Its not about racism its about fraud. lots of alt account abusing local forum


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2544574.msg52270214#msg52270214


2 Accounts Connected:

Bitcoin Forum > Local > Türkçe (Turkish)

El-Cezeri, Kalemder,

Proof:
Hi there;

my english is not so good, but i will try to explain it;

2 Accounts connected on local forum, they entered lots of signature bounties;



Here some evidences;


2.
Both are  follower of Erbakan Hodja  (Erdogan's hodja) and the only person in the country who writes about Bitcoin and Erbakan's unification of islam against western economic culture.

Kalemder
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2312539.msg23538970#msg23538970

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2312539.msg23467041#msg23467041

El-cezeri

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5162605.msg51738090;topicseen#msg51738090


3. Both of the previous signatures were the same, the bounties they entered were the same regularly. for example, in ferrum, one asks when the signature will be distributed, and the other answers the wrong membership


Kalemder

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5169415.msg52028060#msg52028060

El ceziri

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5169415.msg52027694#msg52027694

4. After removing the writings of both at the same time, a concise word-aphorism was written.


5. They both enter the Asura, luckily neither of them sells for a long time and they both write losses.


Kalemder loss money in the asura ico

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4598243.msg42093106#msg42093106

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3874758.msg41201768#msg41201768

Al-Ceziri remembers the old days, about he loses in asura ico

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4598243.msg51696342#msg51696342

6- both of them on the same day binance margin on the pondering questions.

No need to write about it already has 30-40 posts.

He follows the lord of the rings news every week,

el ceziri;

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5157246.msg51916484#msg51916484

Kalemder makes profile photos about the lord of the rings from time to time. He writes lots of gandalf's aforism in time to time. his signature was a gandalfs aforism.



8. Both claimed that the telegram was swindled by group admins. One of them opened the subject in this matter, both wisdom in the same way, the same tactics are being defrauded in the post telegram admins and he said they are scammers.


Kalemder

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5143406.0

el ceziri

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4576893.msg41308657#msg41308657


9.  they both have 30.000 Turkis liras  pc, he occasionally put the photos of this pc, and remove.  About this pc One screen of the PC stands vertically on the table, not horizontal, and both PCs have Dual 1080 Graphics cards. both have 1 ethereum rig.


Kalemder
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4846529.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2080023.msg20789030#msg20789030

El ceziri

Recently, a person who wants to collect a pc out of the subject, he said I have 30 thousand liralik PC double 1080 li, there is also a rig post,

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5170462.msg52008065#msg52008065

the sad part;

10. on last month, he activated his inactive sub-membership to make full member via collect merit. later, on off-topic boards he ask about how to collect merit and he opened a board and he asked for positive trust from people.  Last 2 weeks kalemder most merited to el- cezeri and el ceziri most merited to kalemder.

Favorite profiles to send sMerit to
el cezeri to Kalemder      8   (the most)


Favorite profiles to send sMerit to

Kalemder to el-cezeri  19        (the most)




And he accepts these claims;

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5157246.msg52114023#msg52114023


translated;

Quote
Hahaha, shove it! Forum's new magazine topic

I'm Kalemder. Besides, he's your best Thank you.
Cezeri is not the same person as me, But i don't mean he is different, he's a relative (family).  We are using same PC.  I've even mixed up his account while using the same computer. Some times I mix my account with he.

Come on, it doesn't matter. This is a place where anonymous ideas meet anonymously.


both accounts online everytime and he is online with his relative on same pc. and he uses his relatives accounts at same pc at same time. its a bullshit lie.

There are 30 evidences about this alt-account. I can add more and more. All members know he is the same.  You can use Google translate to translate the post, or you can ask me to translate it, i can help you. We suffer in local forum for merit farming for alt accounts, abusing, sub-accounts and signature abusing.


I hope some DT persons or other forum members can help about that



Miscellaneous:

Any other comments you may have belong here.
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September 04, 2019, 03:30:12 PM
 #6

@Hey there Delilah

I've read your writings before. You think you're Scherlock Holmes. Those people admitted that they were relatives of Kalemder and Al-Jazari. But because of your endless enmity, hatred and enmity you and others like you, people got cold from the forum.


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September 04, 2019, 03:31:32 PM
Merited by eddie13 (3)
 #7

Having said that, you publicly defending and promoting this in this case, LoyceV, condones a very dangerous premise for the integrity of this forum
I think we'll have to agree to disagree here. You can't be selective about which freedom of speech you accept, and which not. That's not freedom, it's censorship.

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September 04, 2019, 03:35:04 PM
 #8

Having said that, you publicly defending and promoting this in this case, LoyceV, condones a very dangerous premise for the integrity of this forum
I think we'll have to agree to disagree here. You can't be selective about which freedom of speech you accept, and which not. That's not freedom, it's censorship.

People are obliged to prove their claim. Are we gonna come here every day and answer someone's crap? Or will those who make false accusations be given heavy penalties?


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Vispilio
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September 04, 2019, 03:42:35 PM
 #9


I think we'll have to agree to disagree here. You can't be selective about which freedom of speech you accept, and which not. That's not freedom, it's censorship.


I don't think banning racism is censorship Loyce, it's just promoting the survival and well being of the human species Smiley.

Similar to banning people for death threats and inflicting violence, racist behavior should also be taken very seriously, as it attempts to dehumanize and completely disqualify certain segments of the human population (and here certain parts of the forum) from a dignified
and joyous life, I would consider that a very serious crime against humanity.

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September 04, 2019, 03:47:12 PM
 #10

People are obliged to prove their claim. Are we gonna come here every day and answer someone's crap? Or will those who make false accusations be given heavy penalties?

What penalties exactly? If someone breaks forum rules - report them to moderators. Other than that you can choose to either ignore it or to escalate the drama.

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September 04, 2019, 03:50:04 PM
Merited by LoyceV (2)
 #11

Why are people hostile to each other? Is that Satoshi's dream? Lie, slander, hate, instinct to destroy ...
No, I'm sure it was definitely not his dream.  As to the hostility, it's the result of cultural clashes which have been around since time out of mind.  I've got nothing against Turkey or the Turkish section, btw.  But there's been a lot of drama there for quite a while, and I think it's a very cloistered section.  Whenever that happens, there's always going to be conflict.

I don't think banning racism is censorship Loyce, it's just promoting the survival and well being of the human species Smiley.
But it is censorship.  Racial supremacy (whatever the race) is an idea, and if someone can't express that idea because someone is prohibiting people from speaking about it....well, what would you call that if not censorship?  LoyceV is correct.  If free speech is to be protected, it's generally the offensive ideas that need the defense, not inoffensive speech that most people agree with.  HBW would agree with me, the devil rest her soul.

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September 04, 2019, 03:50:45 PM
Last edit: September 04, 2019, 04:10:47 PM by wolwoo
 #12

People are obliged to prove their claim. Are we gonna come here every day and answer someone's crap? Or will those who make false accusations be given heavy penalties?

What penalties exactly? If someone breaks forum rules - report them to moderators. Other than that you can choose to either ignore it or to escalate the drama.

blocking or suspension of 3-5 weeks. Slander people, stealing time is a crime everywhere. Will the subject be closed without even apologizing?

The truth is, friends: There are monuments of arrogance that cannot attract each other in this forum. And one of them is Turkish. Delilah is this person's side account.
Not only that, it's a gang that trolls in the forum, has a side account and wants to stir up the forum! These exist both globally and in our forum. Just a day islamicoin has been banned in the forum.

The forum won't be comfortable until it clears such gangs and collaborators.


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Hey there Delilah
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September 04, 2019, 04:15:21 PM
 #13

Playing the racism card everytime. its too politic. You are ruining our forum with your nepotism. They are abusing merit system. they are using lots of alt accounts. Remember that: 2 month ago there was a DT ''election'' in local forum.  Now there are a

Visipilo
Trust list topic  (they are listing DT list for local. its abusing and pressure for local members)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5178202.msg52241677#msg52241677

Kalemder
Trust list topic (for adding DT to each other. its a abuse)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5179926.0

wolwoo     

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5178202.msg52358568#msg52358568



when some accusation appeared about this issue. They fastly organised for voting opposite flag.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5178202.msg52358255#msg52358255

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5178202.msg52358186#msg52358186


They are using racism card. Because they are know, they are in a fraud. they are oppressive people on local forum. And playing racism card, playing aggrieved role. the evidence is very clear. they abused the system and still continue to abuse.


Vispilio
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September 04, 2019, 04:16:12 PM
Last edit: September 05, 2019, 06:35:11 AM by Vispilio
Merited by The Pharmacist (4)
 #14


I don't think banning racism is censorship Loyce, it's just promoting the survival and well being of the human species Smiley.
But it is censorship.  Racial supremacy (whatever the race) is an idea, and if someone can't express that idea because someone is prohibiting people from speaking about it....well, what would you call that if not censorship?  LoyceV is correct.  If free speech is to be protected, it's generally the offensive ideas that need the defense, not inoffensive speech that most people agree with.


interesting side point, I have no objections against free speech, it's meaningful to talk about whether certain races exhibit superiority or some other generalized patterns in some areas.

But using this line of thinking to then create unfair and provably false disadvantages to certain groups, with no regards whatsoever to ethics or due process; this I believe would be a bannable offense in any community or organization.

It's also philosophically incorrect as it would imply reverse causality. The proponents of the racial theories often overlook that while an average statistic about the distribution of a certain race's IQ for example might hold some merit, the fact remains that individual outliers from any race or nationality can still manage to (and do) outshine everyone else.

That is the power of individual genius,
and what philosophers like Hegel would call a momentous, world-historical individual, carrying the human Geist and existence to greater and more beautiful levels of advancement.

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wolwoo
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September 04, 2019, 04:24:01 PM
 #15

Playing the racism card everytime. its too politic. You are ruining our forum with your nepotism. They are abusing merit system. they are using lots of alt accounts. Remember that: 2 month ago there was a DT ''election'' in local forum.  Now there are a

Visipilo
Trust list topic  (they are listing DT list for local. its abusing and pressure for local members)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5178202.msg52241677#msg52241677

Kalemder
Trust list topic (for adding DT to each other. its a abuse)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5179926.0

wolwoo     

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5178202.msg52358568#msg52358568



when some accusation appeared about this issue. They fastly organised for voting opposite flag.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5178202.msg52358255#msg52358255

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5178202.msg52358186#msg52358186


They are using racism card. Because they are know, they are in a fraud. they are oppressive people on local forum. And playing racism card, playing aggrieved role. the evidence is very clear. they abused the system and still continue to abuse.




You really can't tell. The accusations are directed at all of us, and we need "others" to get confidence.
Tell us what rule we've broken to make the Turkish forum work together as a crime! Besides, it didn't go into practice, because of people like you ...
If we don't trust the people we talk to, who do we give?
If we are not going to fight against the flag against us, what will we unite? Aren't we going to defend self?


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Foxpup
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September 04, 2019, 04:26:05 PM
Merited by DireWolfM14 (1)
 #16

There is no "organised ethnic hatred" going on. We have nothing against Turks; we hate all trust abusers equally regardless of ethnicity. And we're not even organised: I discovered your trust abuse completely independently of Timelord2067. Are you going to insist there's an innocent explanation for the "irregularities" in your trust lists?

Will pretend to do unspeakable things (while actually eating a taco) for bitcoins: 1K6d1EviQKX3SVKjPYmJGyWBb1avbmCFM4
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September 04, 2019, 04:30:27 PM
 #17

There is no "organised ethnic hatred" going on. We have nothing against Turks; we hate all trust abusers equally regardless of ethnicity. And we're not even organised: I discovered your trust abuse completely independently of Timelord2067. Are you going to insist there's an innocent explanation for the "irregularities" in your trust lists?


I'm a Turk. I know Turkish, I use English translate. Who do you think I can add to my trust list?
Is it irregular to include people I talk to every day?
Who is in your trust list? what is your purpose? explain why you add one by one? why does me add distrust to aliens? Although I don't write a word in English!

Heeey. You can't judge us, let everyone judge itself !!!


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Vispilio
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September 04, 2019, 04:31:14 PM
 #18

There is no "organised ethnic hatred" going on. We have nothing against Turks; we hate all trust abusers equally regardless of ethnicity. And we're not even organised: I discovered your trust abuse completely independently of Timelord2067. Are you going to insist there's an innocent explanation for the "irregularities" in your trust lists?

oh really, you are so convincing Smiley... what about this Foxpup:


the moment a Turkish member's name comes up, you trip over yourself to shower the thread with memes & videos of baboons and similar Wink,

the moment someone attacks a Turkish member, you shower them with endless merits, no need to play this hide and seek, be free.

Come out an say it: you hate Turkish people, it's liberating Smiley

and I hate hypocrites and closed-minded individuals, but I'm still intellectually curious to find out the root causes of your hatred...

Good luck.

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September 04, 2019, 04:32:07 PM
Merited by Timelord2067 (1)
 #19

blocking or suspension of 3-5 weeks. Slander people, stealing time is a crime everywhere. Will the subject be closed without even apologizing?

Not everywhere, for example slander (and defamation in general) is not a crime where I live. Also keep in mind that defamation is typically defined as an intentionally false and damaging statement of fact, whereas most of the stuff on this forum is opinions. Not sure what you mean about stealing time.

It seems there is a great deal of cultural difference here. Some communities are more tolerant to free speech than others and this forum is definitely on the more tolerant end of the spectrum.



That's before we even get to the actual existence of racism in Timelord's posts. I believe he would just as happily dig into any group of users if he thought there was a conspiracy going on, and he has done so on numerous occasions in the past. You'd think in his many years on this forum his alleged hatred for Turkish users would have surfaced a long time ago.

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September 04, 2019, 04:41:28 PM
 #20

blocking or suspension of 3-5 weeks. Slander people, stealing time is a crime everywhere. Will the subject be closed without even apologizing?

Not everywhere, for example slander (and defamation in general) is not a crime where I live. Also keep in mind that defamation is typically defined as an intentionally false and damaging statement of fact, whereas most of the stuff on this forum is opinions. Not sure what you mean about stealing time.

It seems there is a great deal of cultural difference here. Some communities are more tolerant to free speech than others and this forum is definitely on the more tolerant end of the spectrum.



That's before we even get to the actual existence of racism in Timelord's posts. I believe he would just as happily dig into any group of users if he thought there was a conspiracy going on, and he has done so on numerous occasions in the past. You'd think in his many years on this forum his alleged hatred for Turkish users would have surfaced a long time ago.

I have a question for you: why did you add me to your distrust list? What did I do to make you a distrust? Who hated me for you?


please answer honestly


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