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Betcoin withdraw to me 0.1 btc  but my balance was 0.5-0.7 btc...
So i still dont see why they take this money from me, as i dont do anything wrong here?
why they give all money to Jimin Jibao and give only 20% to me???
Can betcoin.ag answer what rules i break??







What happened:: Betcoin.ag closed my account (around 0.6 btc profit) citing some laughable rules, after i asked about rest of my balance, they stopped responding to my emails
Scammers Profile Link: www.betcoin.ag
Amount Scammed: around 0.6 btc
Payment Method: btc

Hello guys,

My account is closed and money gone. I received only one email from betcoin security team:

Hello, your account was permanently closed per our policies regarding
fraud and multi-accounting, plus playing from a banned region.
https://www.betcoin.ag/support/betcoinag-terms-service

Do not create any additional accounts at Betcoin.ag or any other site
associated with Global Limited Holding EOOD (“GLH”) or Coing Gaming
Network (CGN) or they will be closed and funds seized, including the
deposit.

Regards,
Betcoin Security

I am a citizen of Montenegro. I used betcoin from Montenegro without any VPN and i have only one account.

I think (not sure, because i have had absolutely no reply from them after only 1 email) they are trying to say that my account doesnt belong to me, but to the OP of this thread here (they want to steal from him even bigger money, eventhough he is in big minus with them)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5284557.0

But we are two different people, in two different countries.

I do know OP there. He is Jimin Jibao from blogabet, i follow him there. He is the best tipster on that platform and has 9415 subscribers.

He did recommend betcoin.ag to me, when i asked him where is it possible to follow his bets.

I dont use bitcoins in my life so i dont have any of them. He did owe me some money so i asked him to help me with deposit. As i have no wallet to store bitcoins i gave him address from betcoin.ag itself.

0.1 appeared on my balance and we calculated the equivalent money (about 1k euro) into our mutual balance with the OP

I took many bets in the account, some bets i followed from Jimin Jibao of course

Again, i used betcoin.ag website without any VPN usually from my mobile always in Montenegro.

Thats why when they sent to me this email it looked very funny. I have checked their rules and Montenegro was ok for them. I only could not use some casino games. It was fine by me..

After my account was blocked and i couldnt login anymore, i emailed support. They sent me only one email, lying about what i did. I sent them many more emails but they didnt answer.

I contacted Jimin Jibao, because he recommended them and he told me he had the same account closing and he will be fighting them in some forum. Told me to wait.

I was waiting for reply emails from betcoin but they never came. Jimin Jibao told me that its better to make claim with SBR, that betcoin told him themselves. But they never told me, they just ignore me.

I made the claim already of course and also decided to write in this forum.

Why did betcoin lie to me. Ok, they can accuse me of anything they want of course, but they say i used their website from banned region. But Montenegro is not banned !!!

It is a lie.

All they say is lie. I dont multi account, i never had any other accounts with this company, i bet from Montenegro, not banned region

I deposited around 1k euro and had balance about 4, 5, 6k, i dont remember. And now money is gone as they just ignore my emails

Betcoin.ag is SCAM !!!

This is not the first time I have heard bad news about this casino. I don't know who is to blame, according to your story, you really did wrong, but you always have to be heard in order to be able to draw a conclusion. Maybe you post this topic in the gambing area

Excuse me, but what I did wrong?

Can you tell us from which country you are and from which countries you used the VPN? And what did they say exactly about your breaching the Terms?
They indicated on their terms, that Montenegro is not prohibited, so they can not give this as reason.

I am a citizen of Montenegro, i used the betcoin.ag site from Montenegro, on a mobile phone (mostly, not sure if i ever logged in from pc) WITHOUT any VPN.

Well, you can read their email reply (they sent me ONLY one email saying my account is closed, i sent emails later asking about my money but they just ignore me) above, they accuse me of "playing from a banned region"

I don't find anything OP did wrong according his story. This section should be ok since it's about accusation that site.

The other user who posted for first time (zikzik) still waiting for the (mediator?) conclusion from betcoin.ag what they should do later.

AFAIK, if we are gambling from prohibited/banned region, we will get a notification box when we opened the site (not sure about betcoin.ag since i never try this site)

I don't understand why this case is going prolonging if the solution would be you do KYC and Jimin Jibao also do KYC and with that the problem would be solved. betcoin.AG do KYC for these two people to prove if they are really from the same country or not. so I understand the fact that Jimin Jibao sent Bitcoin to another betcoin.AG account and would probably have the same betting results as OP got tips from Jimin Jibao, did it with betcoin.AG suspect that Jimin Jibao or OP has many accounts. The solution would be to make KYC


this problem is due to the fact that OP received funds sent by Jimin Jibao ( I suppose Jimin Jibao sent Bitcoin to the OP account using the same bitcoin address he used to deposit into his account ) and also because OP received tips from Jimin Jibao, OP would probably have the same results as Jimin Jibao and that in itself makes it look like he is the same person with many accounts.

you are mostly correct, BUT with these differences:

1. I had my account for months, the OP for 3 days
2. My account is in big minus overall, but also in these 3 days, that the OP had his account
3. In these 3 days the OP had his account we had same bets yes, but i took much more bets on my account that the OP on his, and most of my bets were different from the OPs bets
4. They KNOW we are from different countries

Now i (and other members) did ask the betcoin.ag representative in the other thread to provide the list of my bets to clear the situation, but as always betcoin.ag just ignores these requests. WHY? Because when they show the bets on the these two accounts it would not need a genius to figure out that these are totally different people betting.

But they will never show, as well as they will never provide any proof, so the public can se. Because they have none ...

I am of course ready (and i would assume the OP here is also ready) to provide any KYC documents, videos, selfies or what not, betcoin.ag or any other mediator would need. But they would not even ask me this (the OPs emails they simply ignore), because thats not their intent here.

They just want to take Bitcoin ...

as you can see from the screenshot, i made sbr report on October 26
now is November 11 and i have not heard a word from sbr from that day

https://i.gyazo.com/83ce99031eaece466dd9c0e597a4c671.png

I don’t know anything about the SBR process.  How long does it usually take, in cases whereby there is a significant monetary dispute and potentially complex evidence?  I would presume that the same evidence applies in cases that are alleged to be about the same person, disposition of which should be merged because (AFAIK) the outcome substantively hinges on the allegation of multi-accounting:


With what seems to be a total of approximately 1.5 BTC on the line, the evidence in this case must be reviewed carefully.  It may be technically complex.  If required, the mediator should seek an expert opinion in the manner of a courtroom expert witness (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expert_witness).

That being said, the case should be disposed as promptly as practicable.

---

To the attention of anybody with access to the evidence (Betcoin.AG security department, and the SBR mediator):

Quote from: KILLYMNE on October 30, 2020, 03:51:40 PM

Again, i used betcoin.ag website without any VPN usually from my mobile always in Montenegro.

Quote from: KILLYMNE on November 01, 2020, 09:28:40 PM

I am a citizen of Montenegro, i used the betcoin.ag site from Montenegro, on a mobile phone (mostly, not sure if i ever logged in from pc) WITHOUT any VPN.

If (if) this user was really multi-accounting, then I would examine the evidence to see if he was using one of the specialized VPNs that give a mobile phone IP address.  One of the best mobile-IP VPNs in the industry also fakes the TCP fingerprint, to make the traffic look like it originates from a mobile phone TCP/IP stack; but I do not think that they offer IP addresses in Montenegro (not sure about that, off the top of my head).  (No, I will not provide links or further details here.)

These are professional-grade services, and very expensive; however, there are consumer-oriented sites that resell them for as low as $50/month (maybe lower; I have seen $50/month).  The consumer-oriented resellers are heavily promoted on forums that specifically help cheaters to run multi-account SCAMS on eBay, Amazon, et al., and even to multi-account on Paypal.  If you ever wonder why it seems that fly-by-nights can dump so much garbage on those major sites, this is a big part of it.  (No, I will not provide links or further details here!)

These specialized VPNs do have legitimate professional uses.  It is a shame that some people abuse them.  Anyway, only a security expert could get away with it in the long run.  If you make even one little mistake, then sophisticated security systems can still detect that you are multi-accounting behind a VPN!

---

Quote from: Slow death on November 02, 2020, 11:11:54 AM

I don't understand why this case is going prolonging if the solution would be you do KYC and Jimin Jibao also do KYC and with that the problem would be solved. betcoin.AG do KYC for these two people [...] The solution would be to make KYC

As a privacy activist (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5284102.0), I object to the suggestion that a no-KYC site should shotgun-KYC users accused of multi-accounting.

I respect Betcoin.AG’s respect for users’ privacy.  If they were suddenly to demand KYC dox, I would check their TOS very carefully to see if users even had any notice that that could happen.

Because I flatly refuse in principle ever to do KYC for cryptocurrency transactions of any kind, I strongly distrust sites that shotgun-KYC their users while holding user funds hostage.  Shotgun KYC is a common scam, especially on some exchanges that are notorious for selective scamming.

I do not want to make the case more difficult to resolve; but I must point out that if Betcoin.AG gave its users a reasonable expectation of no KYC, it is unreasonable to suggest that they should resolve a dispute by sudden doxing.

Quote from: Betcoin.AG on October 26, 2020, 03:19:47 PM

Like most Bitcoin sites, since we do not require KYC, [...]

For the record:

Quote from: nullius on February 02, 2018, 11:11:48 PM

I’ve never submitted to any “KYC” identity-rape doxing for anything whatsoever even remotely related to Bitcoin.  On principle, I never will.  Why the hell would I?  In principle, my finances are private—mine, and mine alone.

I also observe that KYC would not even resolve the dispute.  From the other thread:

Quote from: Betcoin.AG on October 31, 2020, 06:54:58 PM

We spend many Bitcoin each year on fraud prevention technology and every time the abusers discover what we have, they come up with new ways around them. As mentioned earlier in this thread, we have banned approximately 500 abusive accounts this year. Through cooperation with some of these accounts, we have gained access to several Discord and Telegram groups with thousands of members, which specifically teach players how to cheat sites, including different methods of exploitation, how to make your region undetectable and how to fake your KYC documents. We learn a lot from these cheats, and just like them, we adapt our security as well.

---

Quote from: gadado on November 01, 2020, 09:01:31 PM

Can you tell us from which country you are and from which countries you used the VPN? And what did they say exactly about your breaching the Terms?
They indicated on their terms, that Montenegro is not prohibited, so they can not give this as reason.

OP is alleged to be the alt account of a person from a banned region and otherwise cheating the site, in violation of TOS.

There is no need for me to rehash this, so I will simply quote what I said in the other thread:

Quote from: nullius on November 02, 2020, 10:08:25 PM

Quote from: zikzik on November 02, 2020, 09:46:54 PM

There is nothing in the world they can show that can prove that the two accounts in question belong to me.

I don’t know if you are guilty or not.  I know that if you are, your VPN was not protecting you as you thought it was (LOL).  Based on my own security expertise, I would not assume that they can have no evidence (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5284557.msg55502885#msg55502885).

Yes, I am confident that I myself could avoid any multi-account detection.  No, I will not tell the fine folks here how to do it.  If you try, you will probably get screwed—tough luck.

If you are innocent, then I expect that Betcoin.AG will probably fall flat on their faces at mediation; and they have already promised to return your remaining deposits if the mediator says to, so...

Important text enlarged:

Quote from: nullius on November 03, 2020, 02:38:03 AM

Quote from: zikzik on November 03, 2020, 01:12:28 AM

[...]

If you are innocent, I wish you good luck and a fair mediation so that you can get your money back.  But if you are guilty, rot in hell!  I don’t like cheaters.  I am quite serious about this:

Quote from: nullius on November 02, 2020, 11:46:05 PM

A message to cheaters:

It is easy to get away with malicious and abusive behaviour on naïve sites.  —Not easy on sites that are serious about catching you.

I know of open-source code that can do at least some part of what Betcoin.AG claims their security system can do.  It’s not a drop-in solution; it may require expensive consultant work to integrate into a site.  I am also aware that there exist proprietary commercial systems that can catch you red-handed, if you try to multi-account from a banned region from behind a VPN.  These are the same types of systems also used by banks, large cryptocurrency exchanges, and other financial institutions; the systems are expensive, and (unfortunately, in my opinion) quite commonplace in the industry.  On non-gambling sites, you are being invisibly checked by such systems every day.

I am not saying that that’s what happened here.  I am saying that it is a major issue that the mediator should inquire about.  If my inferences are incorrect, then the outcome may or may not be unfavourable to Betcoin.AG, depending on the total weight of all the other evidence.

Moreover, I am warning cheaters that you will get caught—sometime, sooner or later, at some site—and it will hurt!  Evading detection requires serious skills.  People with serious skills usually apply them to activities more productive than multi-account abuse on gambling sites.

KILLYMNE, if you are not zikzik, then I hope that you will get your winnings paid ASAP.  Every gambler should always be paid winnings from fair play!  But if you are zikzik, then I myself will LOL at how hard you screwed yourself trying to rip off a site who outsmarted you.  :-)

I wish to all parties a fair mediation, with results correct as to the facts and wise in the principles of justice.

---

Disclosure:  As I said on the other thread, I have no financial interest in this case.  I have no affiliation whatsoever with any of the parties to the case.  I also have no prior knowledge of Betcoin.AG; I neither trust nor distrust them.  I think that I am about as close as possible to being a perfectly neutral observer of this case.

I stumbled into the other thread by happenstance; and the case has kept my attention, in large part because I do have sufficient technical expertise to have read between the lines (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5284557.msg55502885#msg55502885) of Betcoin.AG’s posts.  I am generally interested in these fraud prevention systems, IP address cat-and-mouse games, etc.  My view of these technologies is from both directions:  For honest privacy purposes, I myself study how to avoid all detection—but I nonetheless enjoy it when a cheater gets nailed.

This site is scamming and scamming all over again!
Be warned!

                                                                              News !!!!
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Betcoin withdraw to me 0.1 btc  but my balance was 0.5-0.7 btc...
So i still dont see why they take this money from me, as i dont do anything wrong here?
why they give all money to Jimin Jibao and give only 20% to me???
Can betcoin.ag answer what rules i break??

DISCLAIMER: my involvement in this particular case has 2 reasons:

1. The OP here is a subscriber of my paid tipster service - he is paying money to receive my recommendation on what to bet. The bets he received from me have now caused him to lose the money he won at betcoin.ag sportsbook. So the OP contacted me and asked me to help him to get his money back, as he feels that i am partly responsible for betcoin.ag not paying him what he won.

2. My persona is being connected to the OP's account here by the betcoin.ag security team. As some of you know i had a long standing case with betcoin.ag, where my funds were seized too, but after a long investigation procedure involving a mediation by SBR (sportsbookreview) my case was closed and the funds has been returned in FULL to me (you can read all in detail here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5284557.0))

Having said all this (and of course wanting to defend my name and my online business reputation) i want now to understand the position of the betcoin.ag - Do you still claim that the OP's account here is MY multiaccount that i used to "take advantage of your betting limits" and all other fraudulent activities you claimed i was guilty of before?

If you refused to return the OP's balance in full, you obviously do feel he broke some rules. So is your claim still the same? You claim that both accounts are mine in fact?


Betcoin.AG (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=202115) please clarify

That suddenly makes it a lot clearer why they closed your account then. It is a shame that you have not been open and honest about that. If you place bets through a tipster service, it is only a matter of time before you are caught and your account closed. What can I say about this? Own fault with regard to zikzik.

sorry, looks like you didnt read the OP's original post ...


i dont provide any betting service, everybody bet themselves in their own accounts, i only provide recommendation on what i believe to be good and valuable bets.

There is nothing wrong with that. If betcoin.ag want to suggest otherwise, they would open a Pandoras Box ;)

I write in my first message that i took some bets that i followed from Jimin Jibao, I DID NOT LIE.

It is against any rules to follow bets from other people recommendation?

apparently Betcoin.ag did not learn from my case and decided again simply to ignore customers it steals money from.

I will be much more involved in this particular case now, as it really ruins my business, if sportsbooks will cancel winnings on bets that i recommend to other bettors.

I have been in arbitration case with Betcoin.ag, so i already know all the "evidence" they had about me, and how they wanted to connect me to the account of the OP here. So now i am much more prepared to defend my good name.

Once again i ask Betcoin.ag to clarify its position on this case. If i dont hear from you in the next 24 hours i reserve the right to act accordingly.

I have an obligation to my 10000+ subscribers (and much more followers). I need to notify them, that there exists a sportsbook that will confiscate their winnings if they follow the bets i recommend. I will make sure as much people as possible understand that.

If you threaten my business, i will use everything in my power to defend myself and my reputation.

After last time i thought you would understand by now, that simply ignoring customers is NOT THE WAY TO OPERATE A BUSINESS.

In terms of content, I know too little about your cases to be able to give a proper judgement. What I have read so much about it and what I want to conclude is that BOTH of you are using betting services to gain unintended advantage.
So,  that is done in a deliberate way with premeditation. Lots of these "Players" have been active lately. Why don't you just play fair? Then you wouldn't have had all these problems. I can not imagine you did not face this problem before with another bookmaker?

What "betting services" are you talking about?

I think you are getting it wrong. The OP is a subscriber and user of the biggest tipster website in the world Blogabet.com
I am the tipster with the best statistics on that website. So the OP follows my bet recommendations and did so on his betcoin.ag account. That is he bet there the bets i have recommended as good.

There is absolutely nothing wrong there. If you go to some website and it is written there that Barcelona should really beat Real Madrid (for example) and you take that bet, that SHOULD NOT be against ANY OF THE SPORTSBOOKS rules.

Or to put it into a even better perspective:

you go to a bar to watch a game with your mates... You argue about who is going to win. You know this one guy always seems to get the result correct. He says TeamA is going to win 2:1. You open your sportsbook on your phone and bet TeamA to win 2:1.

Did you break any rules? Did you "gain some unintended advantage"?

Of course not ;)


P.S.
In fact, betcoin.ag on their site themselves put reviews for different games together with their BET PREDICTION ;)
for example https://www.betcoin.ag/aalborg-handbold-vs-barcelona-champions-league-handball-bitcoin-sportsbook

So i dont understand why they are saying now that my predictions which were taken in their sportsbook by two users (myself and the OP here) break any rules ;)

Hello, both of these accounts were resolved per the recommendation of the SBR mediator.

The accounts were found to be in violation of our terms of service and the mediator said:
"I'd suggest just the deposit then. Same for both accounts really. Lesser of balance or deposits."

In the case of the Zik013 account, the account balance was returned, since it was the less than the amount of the total deposits. In the case of the KillyPG account, the deposit was returned, since it was less than the account balance.

SBR does not believe in punitive damages for abusive players, and that is the only reason the accounts received anything, not because they were found to be innocent. This decision was made after over a month of back and forth with all parties and many hours of research and review on the part of the mediator.

These accounts were quick to accept the mediator decision on 1 account but not on the second, where it didn't benefit them. We were happy to abide by the mediator decision from the start, and did just that.

Our rules are similar to that of every sportsbook. If these rules are broken, depending on the severity, it could include seizure of funds.

Betcoin has 10s of thousands of weekly players who have no issue receiving their funds and do not require mediation. It is simple. Play legitimately and you will get paid quickly. If anyone has any questions or concerns, please feel free to send us a PM, support ticket or email. Thanks and best of luck to all.

Its lie. I never been contacted by Sbr. I make report long time ago but they never answer me.
I also sent to SBR selfie with id from my house etc etc...

PLEASE STOP LYING

As far as i know (and the other user just confirmed it here) SBR was in talks ONLY with me. I have accepted the decision where my money was returned in FULL.

But to say that i have made some decisions for both accounts IS A LIE.

I NEVER MADE ANY DECISION FOR THE SECOND ACCOUNT, AS I AM NOT THE OWNER OF THAT ACCOUNT.
SBR was talking ONLY to me and the decision i made (to agree to a full return of my money) was ONLY FOR MY account OBVIOUSLY.

SBR (or betcoin.ag) has NEVER TALKED to the other account owner !!!

Betcoin.ag just keeps lying.
The good thing EVERYBODY, now i can prove more and more of their lies. They LIED EVEN TO SBR. And i have PROOF of that. In the coming days i will be releasing more and more info about the scam practices that Betcoin.ag is taking.

They though they can buy me out, paying me my full money. But they still want to punish my reputation and make me look like a scammer.

I WILL NOT ALLOW IT.

I (and ONLY I) made a deal with you, when you return my money and i close all the forum posts and end this situation (which is of course not good for you). I fulfilled my obligations, I DID ALL THAT YOU ASKED (wrote a nice sorry message, closed the forum thread, etc). BUT you now try to make me a scammer again and steal another person's money because of me. My reputation is very important for me and because of this i will help KillyPG.

At least i will show all the lies you tell. You were 100% sure before that i will loose a mediation case, because of your 100500 pages report on "how i scammed you" (i actually lost money with you remember? lol). BUT IN THE END YOU WERE HAPPY TO PAY ME IN FULL

That is all because i am not a scammer. AND I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WIHT THE KILLYPG ACCOUNT

and I WILL PROVE IT !!!!!!!!!!!!

I have posted it in my thread, and will also do the same here. I will finally reveal all the information guys, it will certainly open your eyes on the practices betcoin.ag takes. They dont want to admit their mistakes - FINE, let everybody know about them PROVEN BY FACTS.


So, concerning KillyPG account, Betcoin.ag claims that i was opened and operated my me.

This accusation is supported by only two facts:

1. The deposit to KillyPG account was made from the same btc wallet address as one of the deposits to my account
2. They claim that the betting pattern of KillyPG is the same as my betting patter (that is we took the same bets in order to "abuse their system by circumventing the betting limits")

THERE IS NOTHING ELSE that they have, that can support their claim that it was me who opened and operated the KillyPG account. I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT NOW, as i have been in the mediation case with SBR and was presented with all the facts and accusations that betcoin.ag have.

There is nothing else to connect the account with me. We are different people in different countries. KillyPG did not break any rules, he did not use any VPNs and his country Montenegro is perfectly allowed on betcoin.ag platform.

SO THAT IS IT. ALL THE ACCUSATIONS ARE BASED ON TWO CLAIMS ABOVE.


Remember that now we are only concerned with the KillyPG account. My account is out of the question now, the fact that i have used VPNs and other stuff is not relevant anymore, because the case of my account is closed and i did get my money in full back.

Betcoin.ag refused to pay KillyPG's winning from his account, accusing him of the two things above.

Now i did admit the #1 claim in my very first post and still consider that there was nothing wrong with this fact. KillyPG is not a crypto user and as i have owed him money - he simply asked me to pay him back via depositing to his betcoin.ag account, as he did not even have a btc wallet to use.

Now the interesting part about the "fact #2" is that I (and other forum users) have been asking betcoin.ag rep to provide in this topic the list of all the bets i took and the bets KillyPG took for all of us to see, HOW WE HAVE BEEN "abusing their system by circumventing the betting limits". Remember, betcoin.ag claims that i have opened this extra KillyPG account for this very exact reason.

So I have been asking betcoin.ag to provide this info here (KillyPG also authorized them to disclose his bets here) for weeks, but they ALWAYS REFUSED TO DO IT.

I mean WHY WOULD THEY NOT WANT TO DO IT? It woud "certainly" prove their point ;)

I have been saying all along, that they would not do it simply because anybody with a brain cell would right away see that the two accounts are operated by different people (bettors with different betting patterns, different styles and different bets).

I have also asked the SBR mediator to request this info from betcoin.ag, but he did not do it also, as he felt i should get my money back regardless and he did not go into those details.

So betcoing.ag would not release the bet lists as they knew it would prove i am not connected to the KillyPG account. Thats was a nice situation for them ;)

Fortunately for KillyPG, when betcoin.ag was forced to pay back my money (and KillyPG also), they did it by reopening accounts for the purpose of withdrawing. When i logged in i saw that i could copy all the information from the account and i advised KillyPG to do the same.

SO NOW WE HAVE THE FULL BET LISTS OF BOTH ACCOUNTS ;)

The deal was that everyone would abide by the decision of the mediator, who was in frequent communication with both parties and spent many hours analyzing evidence. This recommendation was that both accounts were to receive the lesser of the amount between the account balance and total of deposits. We were informed by the mediator that it is SBR policy to return deposits, as they do not support punitive actions upon players.

We were disappointed with the result, but ensured that both accounts were paid within the hour. Zik013 received 1.1 BTC (the account balance, which was less than the total of deposits). KillyPG received 0.1 BTC (The deposit amount, which was less than the account balance).

Since punitive damages were not allowed to be collected, the mediator also suggested that as part of the agreement, Zik013 would have to close his thread, mark it as resolved and make a post showing that he believes our actions were justified. Zik013 was also informed by the mediator at that time that while he would be receiving the account balance, the KillyPG account would be receiving deposit only.

Prior to posting these recent updates, Zik013 sent us a message saying that if we did not pay KillyPG his winnings, he would post negative things about us in various forums. Considering he has "no affiliation with this person", he seems awfully invested in his finances. His claimed reasoning for this is that it affects his tipster business when his clients don't get their winnings. Perhaps someone worried about the sustainability of their tipster business should be more concerned about the fact that he posted in this thread several times that he was a losing gambler.

Less than a week after being paid, Zik013 has gone back on his agreement, reopened the thread and continues to defame Betcoin. We believe that this is the true “scam”, since part of the deal to receive his funds was that his thread be marked resolved and closed and once he received his payment, he went back on that.

Below we will post a statement from the SBR mediator regarding the results of this case.

The following is an unedited statement from the mediator in the case:

My name is Brad Scott and I work with SBR (sportsbookreview.com) helping players resolve disputes with sportsbooks.
 
I have been asked to provide a statement for public consumption regarding the complaint submitted by Betcoin.ag user ZIK013, so am addressing this to the wider crypto betting community.
 
Brief Background:

Betcoin.ag decided that user ZIK013 was playing from The Ukraine, was working with a syndicate from that country and was multi-accounting with account KillyPG.
 
They wanted to confiscate the account balances in line with their stated policy regarding The Ukraine  https://www.betcoin.ag/suspending-service-russia-and-ukraine-effective-immediately
 
SBR was asked to advocate for ZIK013 and after reviewing the available evidence advised ZIK013 that trying to come to an amicable agreement was the best option to see him paid.
 
Betcoin.ag said that if ZIK013 would make a public statement on the Bitcointalk forum saying that he understood why Betcoin were so suspicious and were not unreasonable to have acted as they did, and SBR would provide a report to back up that post, they would treat this as a simple multi-accounting case and not invoke their rule regarding The Ukraine

ZIK013 agreed to this, made the requested post on Bitcointalk forum, and was allowed to withdraw the account balance of that account, and the total deposits that had been made to the KillyPG account. This is what I advised ZIK013 would happen and is in line with fair industry practice for multi accounting, the lesser of current balance or total deposits.
 
ZIK013 has changed his mind after being paid, so Betcoin has asked SBR to provide the promised report.
 
SBR Role:

SBR is not a regulator and does not make “orders”. We attempt to mediate fair solutions to disputes that both parties can be satisfied with and agree to. Confidence that the wider offshore industry can be trusted, without the onerous rules of onshore regulation, is the goal.
 
We advocate for the player and try to avoid doing anything that might compromise their position, so it is with regret that I am now forced to honor the agreement and provide a public explanation of the mediation process.
 
This is not a ruling, just an explanation of the steps taken to find the best possible solution for the person we are advocating for.
 
Betcoin Allegations:

1) Playing from The Ukraine
2) Controlling more than one account & circumventing betting limits
3) Working as part of a Ukrainian syndicate
 
Evidence Offered:

1) Playing from The Ukraine

Betcoin offered activity logs where on three occasions the account was logged in from a VPN connection which changes to the same retail Ukraine ISP owned IP, causing an auto logout. The same regional VPN IP range was used both before and after these logout events, which Betcoin say is indicative of a VPN system drop out and reset.
 
I asked ZIK013 if he had any idea how this could happen.  He said he uses a multi layer setup involving virtual machines, TOR and rotating IPs from five VPN companies and it must have been from that. I said it appeared unlikely any of the 5 companies he named would control that IP and did he know if any of his providers offered “undetectable” or “retail” IPs. He said he did not really understand the system very well but some online friends had helped him set it up and one of them may have included their home IP from inside Ukraine in the rotation.

I thought that explanation brought up more questions than it answered, and there was no evidence of rotating IPs in the logs I was shown to support the theory, so decided it would be fruitless to go any further into this angle.

I asked what KYC proof ZIK013 could offer to show where he is.

ZIK013 said he is located at an address around 10 hours driving time from the suspect Ukraine IP, and in a different country. He said that he could offer passport and utility bills, a photo of himself outside his house which can be identified from Google Earth, an on demand video, or anything else within reason.
 
I believe this is more than enough to meet normal justifiable ID standards and is sufficient for ZIK013 to refute the claim that he is in The Ukraine.
 
Betcoin did not agree with that assessment, saying their experience is that operatives for the suspected group are always armed with fake KYC documents or use a “gnome” stand-in.

2) Controlling more than one account & circumventing betting limits

Betcoin is able to show that the ZIK013 and KillyPG accounts have been funded from the same source.
 
Betcoin offered six examples of the two accounts making the same maximum limit bets within less then 1 minute of each other.
 
Betcoin alleged that ZIK013 has been communicating on behalf of the KillyPG account and offered a number of examples comparing the writing style to justify their claim. I could not argue with their analysis.
 
ZIK013 said that KillyPG has made many bets that are not the same as his apart from these few examples, and is in control of his own account.
 
He says KillyPG is a subscriber to his Blogabet service and as such follows most of his bets soon after posted.

He said that the account funding was him innocently paying back money he owed and denied that he had ever communicated pretending to be the KillyPG account.

I sent ZIK013 three of Betcoin’s example bets and asked him to send me a link to Blogabet where he had posted those, hopefully just before KillyPG bet them.
 
I also asked ZIK013 if he was able to provide anything we can use to show how the money owed had originally changed hands, to support that story.

None of those three bets had been posted to Blogabet but ZIK013 provided evidence of a Telegram session where he says he shared those bets with private subscribers only.

He was unable to think of anything that could be used to help show it was a real debt.

I explained to ZIK013 that whether KillyPG is genuinely another person and all activity is innocent or not, Betcoin do have enough evidence to reasonably justify their claim that the accounts are working together and are circumventing their betting limits.

3) Working as part of a Ukrainian syndicate

Betcoin point to the Ukranian IP they detected
 
Betcoin offered examples of bets on lower leagues and alternative markets that they are suspicious of being syndicate plays

Betcoin claim that the source wallet only ever having transacted with the Binance exchange and Betcoin is indicative of how banned Ukrainian syndicates operate.

ZIK013 said he sometimes uses tips from other sources but denies acting on behalf of any other group or person.
 
ZIK013 was asked to show where several bets Betcoin were suspicious about had been posted on Blogabet, as this would go a long way to refuting the claim these were syndicate plays. But they had not been publicly posted.
 
ZIK013 said Betcoin were incorrect about the wallet usage as he had used it to fund several other bookmakers.

I put it to Betcoin that they were wrong about the wallet use history and they responded with this information;

“Here is a graph of their transactions https://imgur.com/a/4PuYgrC

That wallet on the far left starting with 13Taq is the wallet which funded both accounts. The Zik account had several other wallets which funded and received funds from Betcoin, which are part of that triangle on the left.

On the right side you see sending and receiving exposure and orange is for gambling. All Bitcoin gambling sites are a part of this software.
If I click on the orange for that wallet, you will see that it is 100% Betcoin.
https://imgur.com/a/VNzaTdG
 
To be thorough, I also checked the other 2 private wallets that were related to Betcoin and they are both 100% exposure to only Betcoin, as well.
https://imgur.com/a/N1LJFUA
https://imgur.com/a/hZOnzT2
 
He does have some other transactions which came directly from the Binance exchange but the wallet which was used to fund the Killy account and 1 of Zik's deposits was 100% only used for Betcoin.”
 
I explained to ZIK013 that although Betcoin are only assuming this is the case, I think they are not being unreasonable to be suspicious.
 
Resolution:

Given the weaknesses on both sides of the argument I suggested an agreement to allow both parties to get most of what they want. Betcoin to be cleared of the wrong doing that has been alleged, and ZIK013 to be paid out.

ZIK013 made the requested conciliatory public post and was paid his full balance, as it was less than his deposits, and the KillyPG account had all betting cancelled and the total deposits refunded, as the balance was higher than the deposits.

This is in line with SBR policy and fair industry practice and I think was the best solution for both parties in these circumstances.

I hope this helps provide some clarity for the bitcoin betting community.

i write sbr report in October but i dont received answer by SBR even once time. I have on my desire sent to SBR evidence of my proof for living in Montenegro, but have not received any reply from SBR.

I gave the other user the list of all my bets, and you can see them all here
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5284557.msg55777264#msg55777264

I was betting myself, some bets i took from Jimin the famous tipster, from his telegram amazing group
But you can see this bets are just small % of my total bets. I bet lot of more mine own picks.

I have not changed my mind. But in all my dealings with SBR i could of course only speak about MYSELF.
I have no affiliation with the KillyPG account and as such i could not possible have had ANY DEALS about that account.

I am happy with the resolution of my own account, but in all the communications with the SBR i have repeated that i am not connected with the KillyPG account.

You keep lying.
THE DEAL WAS ABOUT MY ACCOUNT.
I could not have had any agreement about KillyPG account because IT IS NOT MINE.

As he stated several times already, he had made the SBR report long time ago, but NOBODY answered him.

You are just keep lying and scamming customers. But this time it DID NOT WORK.

You were afraid and HAD TO PAY ME. You wanted to shut my mouth. I DID. But you kept calling me a scammer, refused to pay other people BECAUSE OF ME.

YES I AM INVOLVED NOW. My name is involved. I will be involved as long as it takes for you to apologize and acknowledge that i am not a scammer, pay KillyPG his WINNINGS and close the case.

YOU WERE SO SURE that i would not get my money back from you. But you have already paid my 1.1 BTC and you will have to pay KillyPG also. Otherwise the whole world will see the scammers you are. I can promise you that.

OF COURSE i will. I will just post the truth about your scamming practices. I dont even have to write lies like you do, only the truth. The people will just figure it out themselves.

And yes, i did warn you. Being a fair person i did write to you first, before posting all my recent findings. I wanted to give you a fair warning. Remeber, it was you who first proposed in the private messages to delete any words about me being a scammer ;)

You were afraid that the public will see your scammings, and you still are. That is why you paid me. To shut my mouth. But you kept calling me a scammer and that was your big mistake.