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Public Health England (PHE) has just published a new vaccine surveillance report, here (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1007376/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_30.pdf).

As anyone might reasonably have expected, the vaccination programme has had a huge effect. Estimates suggest that the vaccine has prevented 60,000 deaths and 22 million cases of infection. And this is just in England. Given that the population of England is c.56 million, these numbers are undeniably* impressive.

Every adult in England has now been offered the vaccine. Unfortunately there is still a degree of vaccine hesitancy... if the anti-vaxxers were a bit more open to changing their minds based on data, then the figures would be even better. Charts and tables sourced from the link above.

https://i.imgur.com/nXCQQuj.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/AySiw3t.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/kajvfu2.jpg



_{* undeniable by anyone who has even a rudimentary grasp of mathematics.}

Yes, impressive report.

But don't expect those who believe in ghosts to change their minds based on it. Many times it is hard to change your opinion even if you are a person open to change it. Let alone those who only look for the smallest piece of information to justify their preconceived opinions.

They started out saying people were going to die in droves from vaccines in the short term. Then, since they did not die, they talked about a 3-5 year term. In the end it will turn out that when I am 90 years old and die it will be because of the long term effects of the vaccine.

No, I don't. Normally when I post data and statistical analyses in the anti-vax threads, they just ignore my posts and carry on with the baseless ranting, never trying to substantiate anything, and ignoring anything that doesn't fit their preconceived conclusions. This thread was more of an experiment, I wanted to see if any of them might be coaxed into responding - or whether their eyes simply slide right off the thread title without seeing it, due to some immense psychological block.

The data are distorted, and heavily biased. Vaccines rely on our immune system, so all recoveries and preventions of infection are the result of the actions of our immune systems. Given that the viruys was around of 18 months or so before vaccinations started, and that it is highly infections, it is likely that most people were exposed to the virus and recovered. Some reports say that 60% of the population has immunity as a result of contracting earlier Corona Virus infections, and most of the others recovered and gained immunity as a result of their infection. The real news is that most people gained immunity despite the predations of vaccination. Vaccination does not cure the disease, it is designed to prevent infection, and if it is given to infected people, then it adds to the stress on the immune system, and it creates virus variants. If you add to that the fact that self isolation reduces vitamin "D", which is essential for a robust immune sytem, and masks increase the risk of reinfection by expelled pathogens, it is amazing that thge death toll is not higher. Covid does not in itself kill people, but it does increase the load on a weakened immune system. This is why the morbidly obese are the largest group who die as a result of a covid infection. Interestingly, the second largest group comprises people who are suffering stress as a result of "Covid fear".

We have yet to see the long term effects of the secondary problems created by the vaccines. For example, the spike preteins in the mRNA vaccines are not always staying in the muscle tissue, but some are escaping and collecting in various body organs. The long term residue in ovaries seems to be of particular concern, and has led to the suggestion by sone doctors that women should not be given such vaccines.

Want to find out more? then Google it. :)

^{[CITATION NEEDED]}
Please supply evidence to support this statement.


Vaccines trigger an immune response. They help our immune system understand how to fight potential infections. Your argument is analogous to saying that a fire hose doesn't help to fight a fire, because it's the firefighter not the hose who puts the fire out.


A pattern is emerging in the US, as I've linked to in other threads. There is a strong correlation between states with high case numbers and states with low vaccination rates, as we might expect. No doubt the pattern will become even more pronounced as time progresses.


It is not given to infected people. I appreciate you wouldn't know this if you've not been vaccinated, but one of the screening questions is "Do you have current symptoms of COVID-19 or have you tested positive for COVID-19 in the last month?"


^{[CITATION NEEDED]}
Variants arise through mutation due to copying errors, and natural selection. The more people that are unvaccinated and carry the virus, the more mutations there will be. This is basic science. A vaccine does not 'create' variants.


Our bodies create vitamin D from sunlight, not from social interaction. You get more vitamin D standing alone outside in your garden than you do inside a crowded pub.


If someone stands in front of you and coughs in your face, you'd genuinely prefer them not to be wearing a mask? Or is it just that the idea of someone telling you personally to wear a mask is an outrageous imposition?


Meaning the vaccines are new, so there is no data on the long-term. Absence of evidence is not evidence, particularly when the evidence you demand is impossible to obtain. That's not a compelling argument. Without new things, we'd still be living in caves.


But thanks anyway for replying to the thread. I genuinely did not expect an anti-vaxxer to respond.

I was actually crafting a response to Jet Cash, but when i tried to submit it, i saw Cnut237 already beat me to the punch :)

As much as I respect Jet Cash (and i sincerely do), i do not agree with his stance on vaccines.

It's very simple: science... I have a master degree in a paramedical science field, even tough i never used it after graduating. In high school i followed a highly scientific curriculum filled with chemistry, biology fysics and maths. Afterwards i spent 4 years in university in a course that was filled with statistics, biochemistry, fysics, immunology, bacteriology, virology,... I'm constantly having discussions with people i consider to be friends, but who barely graduated high school in a non-scientific curriculum, and never showed any intrest at all in science at all. For some reason, they feel that the facebook and youtube guys that cherry-pick sentences from pseudo-scientificy self-publications should be helt against the same standard as the peer-reviewed publications from respected professors in scientific journals. I constantly hear BS coming from them, up to the point i no longer start discussions with them. The only thing that happens when i try to have a serious discussion with them, is them blurting out nonsense ignoring my every word, eventough i have always been interested in science, and actively studied it, while their only source for "science" is some random dude on youtube.

It always makes me think about the joke: "don't play chess with a chicken,it will just knock all the pieces over, shit on the board and then strut around like it had won the game".
It's exactly the same for those science-deniers. If you try to have a discussion with them, they'll just blurt out what their facebook/youtube god told them (eventough it's BS), then they'll strut around as if they'd won the discussion.


I kind of blame social media AND entertainment programs.
I've seen programs where they let self-proclaimed anti-vax "specialists" discuss against real specialists. The self-proclaimed anti-vax specialists are usually people that surfed the web for a couple of months, read some crazy conspiracy theories and cherry-picked texts. However, they're pretty charismatic and outspoken.
In those programs, they're put at the same level as professors who have built their knowledge in a scientific way over many decades, starting from other scientific work from other people that have spent their whole life studying these subjects. By placing those self-proclaimed "specialists" on the same level as actual professor, they give the impression the knowledge from both opponents is comparable. It is not. I'm very sorry, but those anti-vaxxers should come into those shows, blurt out their anti-vax theories and then they should be muted while the professor discredits every single sentence they blurted out... It would be a fun thing to watch...

My grandmother (who passed away a while ago, before COVID was even in the picture) went trough an episode of the whooping cough. She also told me about friends of hers that died of polio. Why do you think we no longer have these diseases? Science!!! In this case: VACCINATION.
It WORKS!!! If you don't believe in science, you might aswell stop taking antibiotics if you get ill, don't take a paracetamol if your head hurts, don't let the doctor take out your appendix when it's about to burst... Let's see who lives the longest (on average).

LoL, england and credibility, it's like water and oil... at least oil and water you can create an emulsion.

uk gov (and all western gov) lost all credibility since a while for thinking subjects... the rest deserve more doses !

Hey idiots go read the definition of science.

It is more like they are pro experiment than pro science.

Thanks for your devastating insight and laser-sharp perspicacity. Your arguments are logical and well-constructed, and have certainly helped to move the debate forward.
And in case of any doubt: /s

Who's up next?

is there an info whether the vaxxed or the unvaxxed had covid prior to data collection?

is there a data that identify the people who recovered first from the virus and then got vaccinated?

how about the people who will survive even if they got vaccinated or not?

the virus is been around for more than a year.

bamboozle-ing chicken shit idiot.

visit page 11 in the data (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1007376/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_30.pdf) that is cited in the post


How would you even know that? are you somewhat have the ability of a clairvoyant?

that is the point, the report says "saved"...but does the person need saving?........well.. if you vaccinated everyone then you can claim that all that survived was "saved" by the vaccine.

now you know why you are an idiot? or are you still contemplating? LOL



LOL now you know that vaccine "dosage" is in experimental stage. of course there is more "S" than "N" they turned you into spike protein factory. idiots everywhere  :D

The word "SAVED" has only been used ONCE in the link provided and this is where it is used. I will quote it just for you


It is on page 18 so scroll down a little more.

P.S. they used "SAVED" cause this tackles the forecasting of COVID 19 in england.

page 4


grammar idiot  ;D

vaxxed idiots think they won the debate after their idiot government released some papers. ha ha ha  ;D

Are you some kind of an IDIOT?

That is the summary pages where they summarized the contents in the next pages. The page 4 you mentioned is the summary of the page 18 I mentioned.

Why am I bothering even. nvm

Yes, he is. I have him on ignore for insulting while believing he is smart. I'm not going to waste my time and energy with him. Worst of all, he not only makes a fool of himself but also rejoices, haha. Pathetic.

I believe that today the propagation of conspiracy theories has spread en masse over the Internet. In the old days someone would come up with a weird theory and tell it in the pub, while his friends drank beers and didn't know the half of it. Even if he wrote a book with the theory, the potential audience was limited. But today with blogs, forums, and social networks, with all the CMs out there, you can spread (false) conspiracy theories everywhere.

yeah circle jerks

your document debunked in less than 24 hours...well actually debunked while i was reading it in less than 5 mins LOLOL  :P

idiots still trying to put words in my mouth? dude/s i didn't even discuss things outside of the document, you have home court advantage!  :D

Yeah, it's difficult to debate with these people, when they don't even try to build an argument.


Yes, Jet Cash is not representative of the usual anti-vaxxer response... he does always try to build an argument. I disagree with him completely, but at least we can have a bit of a discussion.


This is the best summary I've seen, and is demonstrated quite well in some of the responses in this thread :D

tell me you suck in science without telling me you suck in science.

masters degree is a nice shocker to some people...not me, for example, i bought a real estate from a broke Phd in 2018, that person is a Phd on commercial/business/financial thing.

...there goes your hero.. probably just ended up playing online games and stumbled in bitcoin in 2014  ;D

gonna repeat this..

gonna repeat this..

goddamn idiot  how many jabs did you get Natsuu? :D ... gotta admit idiots like you are one of the best things this scamdemic/plandemic has to offer  ;D

saved from deaths = prevented deaths

saved from infections = prevented infections

if you vaccinated everyone then you can claim that all that survived was "prevented from dying" by the vaccine even if they can survive without the vaccine

Is it possible to stick to reasoned discussion, and not have to resort to personal attacks. Also, I have noticed that the use of accusations of being a conspiracy theirist is a last resort for people who are nbot capable of continuing a debate. I'm surprised that members of a Bitcoin forum will try to deny that their is not a globalist plan to create a digital world they can control.

We know that the virus was created through gain-of-function technology, and released into the community. Is it a coincidence that mRNA vaccines were tested contemporaneously, or are they a second phase in the move to control our immune systems? I don't know, but current government actions that are contrary to improving our health lead me to suspect this.

[sarcasm]You must be joking, right? I mean, you had the good luck of buying some real estate from somebody that made one bad decision (albeit a big one) whilst he had some phd that was somewhat related to money.... In that case, all university degrees are worthless and everybody holding a university degree must be a deadbeat.... [/sarcasm]

Me telling i do have a master's degree wasn't to shut you up, it was merely a way of me to tell you i do know how to read actual scientific study's and spot the fake ones... During my years in uni, i had to learn from ~40 ish professors who started their carreer by studying the life's work of hundreds of actual scientists, then proceed to study the same subject for 20-30 years before they were given the chance of passing on their wisdom. They made me read dozens and dozens of real books, not blogposts and youtube video's.
These professors, their studys, their books actually explained science in a way that if you study them, you actually understand how stuff works and you don't have to look at some unknown dude's blogpost or youtube video that's filled with cherry picked and out of context quotes to fill your head...

In the end i had to work in a lab for 9 months and scientifically study one subject in order to write a thesis (a 250 page book) that had to include references to loads and loads of actual scientific works. Mine was on including a vector in a strain of anaerobic bacteria in order to make them produce carcinogenic molecules, so these bacteria could be injected into a tumor. It was a long, long time ago, and the theory behind the idear was tested and replaced by a better one, cause that's how science works.
After reading so much actual scientific content, i can honestly say that when i see utter bullocks, i do have the knowledge to see which ones are real, and which ones are completely fake. You don't have to believe me, you don't have to like me, you can even continue to insult me... It doesn't change the facts, nor will i lose sleep over it...

Now, i'm going to step away from this thread... There is nothing to gain here, you make fun of entire country's, you make fun of science... No matter what i do, there'll be no way i'll ever be able to convince you you might be seeing things wrong. This makes this whole discussion moot.

EDIT:
I just found a nice, out-of-context quote to end my last post on this very thread:

Maybe sometimes you need to attend a reading class or something, or attend your literature class cause you really are weak in comprehension, aren't you?

Your Idiocity is stinking just by the way how you construct this without looking at the context of the data mentioned in this post.

I've already stated before that the "SAVED" you are talking about, likewise the "Prevented" it is the FORECASTED Covid in England with response to the trend of event mentioned in the DATA LINKED. Is it that hard to comprehend, or just that your ego so high that you can't accept anything aside from what you believe in.

then me and those scientists are both clairvoyant ha ha ha  ;D

that's the problem with all those references, all you did was memorize but incapable of critical thinking...garbage in--->garbage out, all you did was talk how credible you are but you can't defend your version of "science"  ;)

You really are some kind of IDIOT with the highest degree

FORECAST : to calculate or predict (some future event or condition) usually as a result of study and analysis of available pertinent data (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forecast)

CLAIRVOYANT : a person claiming to have the power to foretell future events (https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/clairvoyant)

Does the scientist claims that it is 100% happening? no, cause they are forecasting which is Predicting.

On the other hand you are asking of datas which shows "the people who will survive even if they got vaccinated or not?"  :-\

Semantics..

Natsuu is as slippery as an eel..gonna give it to you  :D

Either way the arguement still stands that the forecast is wrong if they vaccinated everyone, you'll never know who will survive even without the vaccine, and a lot are surviving now without the vaccine.

 It is over. You lost  :D

I'm not "anti-v" but in Ukraine if you die after vaccine (pretty much any) - "it's just a coincidence, nobody dies from vaccine". Same thing if you get any side effects - good luck proving any link between the vaccination and the consequences.

This is what I call "denying any responsibility" - which is plainly unacceptable. In USSR - no doubt we'd get all vaccinated (maybe even forcibly), just because the country was the owner of the people and they were its main resource, no people=no army=no country, no sense to knowingly cause damage, anything happens to you - the state does all it can to treat you. In modern day Russia - the answer is "maybe". In Ukraine - it's "how much for pouring that sh*t down the sewer pipe and writing I'm vaccinated?" - as the main resources are land&minerals, nobody needs those people. Many people are about "let's take precautions and see what happens" - and it's the only reasonable position. The vaccines are largely untested and nobody is going to cover any side effects that people may encounter.

The responsible position in my understanding is "whatever happens during next X days/weeks to the individual leads to state taking care of the situation" - even of you literally walk out of the window after LSD and vaccine - "oh, that's the insured case, here's a bag of $$$". I know, this sounds absurd and ridiculous - just as claiming "the person had some per-existing condition so he died due to it and not the vaccine he took hours ago".

"There are lies, big lies, and statistics". Properly presenting unverifiable figures typically allows changing public opinion on anything.

I believe the data is true and reliable. Hope that more people will be vaccinated. This is a great thing for the British and European and the World.

Having a masters degree just means you have been exposed to the pharma propaganda, and traditional ideas. It is more important to research the true facts, and to consider the actions of the politicians.

Nature has ways to build evolution into organisms. In the case of viruses, it does this by creating a two stage operation to build new viruses. A virus will build half a dna string in its host cell, and then go off to do some more work. It comes back later to complete the job. If the call has been infected with two viruses, then the completion of the string can be done by a second virus. This isn't relevant if they are both from the same strain, but if the second virus is from a different strain, or it is the product of vaccination, then a mutant will be created. This may be non-viable, or weak, but some will have stronger characteristics, and can lead to the creation of new dominant strains. The way to prevent this is to reduce the viral load in a person, by not wearing masks to avoid reinfection, and not to vaccinate during a pandemic, or a period of infection. Getting people out into the fresh air is a great help as well, as is avoiding the use of body sanitisers that kill the protective bacteria that form an important part of our immune system.

It would also help if "they" would stop producing misleading information, and include the cycle threshold with all their so-called infection stats.

Many reputable scientists are now saying that natural immunity is far stronger than vaccine generated partial immunity. If you examine the basic stats that are milked to produce the fear mongering reports, then you will see that this is true, it also makes sense to those of us who reflect on the patterns of life.

What more can we expect with the data that comes from the government that wants everyone to get vaccinated? Obviously it will more likely be a biased one and also a manipulated one. No matter how hard the government tries to force everyone to get vaccinated, there will still be some who would choose not to. I hope at some point, they will respect their decisions as long as they are following the safety protocols they implement. Everyone has their own opinion about the vaccine nevertheless, their free will should not be removed neither forced just because they think it would be for the betterment of all even when it's not.

A lower viral load is easier to fight off, yes, agreed.

If someone with Covid stands in front of you and coughs in your face, would you prefer that they are wearing a mask? Yes or no?

If you wait until the pandemic ends and it stops being a problem, then what's the point? This is a stupid argument.

I've said before, this is one of the screening questions. If you are infected (or have been recently), you don't get vaccinated.

Sure. Just not as much help as taking the vaccine.

This probably helps with establishing social distancing, I suppose.

When "they" is a blanket term to cover a huge number of governments, universities and other experts and official bodies from just about every country in the world, including mutually antagonistic countries, then this may be regarded as paranoia.

^{[CITATION NEEDED]} And not from one of BADecker's YouTube "experts".

"Fear mongering" is an emotive term, and speculative in this context as you aren't providing any evidence. Stick to facts; understand the data.

Intuition is no match for data.


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You'd hope everyone would have their own opinion, but sadly this is not the case. Many people just parrot social media conspiracy crap without even considering the evidence (by which I mean the data, not feelings and suspicions).


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Here's a link to the full set of Covid-19 data sources for the ourworldindata (https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer) site: https://github.com/CSSEGISandData/COVID-19
What do you think? Are all of these sources a part of some shadowy "they"? :D Whereas some random YouTuber or spammer in BADecker's in-box is a source of the purest truth?