Data on impact of vaccination programme

[Cnut237]

Public Health England (PHE) has just published a new vaccine surveillance report, here.

As anyone might reasonably have expected, the vaccination programme has had a huge effect. Estimates suggest that the vaccine has prevented 60,000 deaths and 22 million cases of infection. And this is just in England. Given that the population of England is c.56 million, these numbers are undeniably* impressive.

Every adult in England has now been offered the vaccine. Unfortunately there is still a degree of vaccine hesitancy... if the anti-vaxxers were a bit more open to changing their minds based on data, then the figures would be even better. Charts and tables sourced from the link above.









_{* undeniable by anyone who has even a rudimentary grasp of mathematics.}

[Poker Player]

Yes, impressive report.

But don't expect those who believe in ghosts to change their minds based on it. Many times it is hard to change your opinion even if you are a person open to change it. Let alone those who only look for the smallest piece of information to justify their preconceived opinions.

They started out saying people were going to die in droves from vaccines in the short term. Then, since they did not die, they talked about a 3-5 year term. In the end it will turn out that when I am 90 years old and die it will be because of the long term effects of the vaccine.

[Cnut237]

don't expect those who believe in ghosts to change their minds based on it.

No, I don't. Normally when I post data and statistical analyses in the anti-vax threads, they just ignore my posts and carry on with the baseless ranting, never trying to substantiate anything, and ignoring anything that doesn't fit their preconceived conclusions. This thread was more of an experiment, I wanted to see if any of them might be coaxed into responding - or whether their eyes simply slide right off the thread title without seeing it, due to some immense psychological block.

[Jet Cash]

The data are distorted, and heavily biased. Vaccines rely on our immune system, so all recoveries and preventions of infection are the result of the actions of our immune systems. Given that the viruys was around of 18 months or so before vaccinations started, and that it is highly infections, it is likely that most people were exposed to the virus and recovered. Some reports say that 60% of the population has immunity as a result of contracting earlier Corona Virus infections, and most of the others recovered and gained immunity as a result of their infection. The real news is that most people gained immunity despite the predations of vaccination. Vaccination does not cure the disease, it is designed to prevent infection, and if it is given to infected people, then it adds to the stress on the immune system, and it creates virus variants. If you add to that the fact that self isolation reduces vitamin "D", which is essential for a robust immune sytem, and masks increase the risk of reinfection by expelled pathogens, it is amazing that thge death toll is not higher. Covid does not in itself kill people, but it does increase the load on a weakened immune system. This is why the morbidly obese are the largest group who die as a result of a covid infection. Interestingly, the second largest group comprises people who are suffering stress as a result of "Covid fear".

We have yet to see the long term effects of the secondary problems created by the vaccines. For example, the spike preteins in the mRNA vaccines are not always staying in the muscle tissue, but some are escaping and collecting in various body organs. The long term residue in ovaries seems to be of particular concern, and has led to the suggestion by sone doctors that women should not be given such vaccines.

Want to find out more? then Google it.

[Cnut237]

The data are distorted, and heavily biased.

^{[CITATION NEEDED]}
Please supply evidence to support this statement.

Vaccines rely on our immune system, so all recoveries and preventions of infection are the result of the actions of our immune systems.

Vaccines trigger an immune response. They help our immune system understand how to fight potential infections. Your argument is analogous to saying that a fire hose doesn't help to fight a fire, because it's the firefighter not the hose who puts the fire out.

Some reports say that 60% of the population has immunity as a result of contracting earlier Corona Virus infections, and most of the others recovered and gained immunity as a result of their infection. The real news is that most people gained immunity despite the predations of vaccination.

A pattern is emerging in the US, as I've linked to in other threads. There is a strong correlation between states with high case numbers and states with low vaccination rates, as we might expect. No doubt the pattern will become even more pronounced as time progresses.

Vaccination does not cure the disease, it is designed to prevent infection, and if it is given to infected people, then it adds to the stress on the immune system

It is not given to infected people. I appreciate you wouldn't know this if you've not been vaccinated, but one of the screening questions is "Do you have current symptoms of COVID-19 or have you tested positive for COVID-19 in the last month?"

it creates virus variants.

^{[CITATION NEEDED]}
Variants arise through mutation due to copying errors, and natural selection. The more people that are unvaccinated and carry the virus, the more mutations there will be. This is basic science. A vaccine does not 'create' variants.

If you add to that the fact that self isolation reduces vitamin "D"

Our bodies create vitamin D from sunlight, not from social interaction. You get more vitamin D standing alone outside in your garden than you do inside a crowded pub.

and masks increase the risk of reinfection by expelled pathogens

If someone stands in front of you and coughs in your face, you'd genuinely prefer them not to be wearing a mask? Or is it just that the idea of someone telling you personally to wear a mask is an outrageous imposition?

We have yet to see the long term effects of the secondary problems created by the vaccines.

Meaning the vaccines are new, so there is no data on the long-term. Absence of evidence is not evidence, particularly when the evidence you demand is impossible to obtain. That's not a compelling argument. Without new things, we'd still be living in caves.


But thanks anyway for replying to the thread. I genuinely did not expect an anti-vaxxer to respond.

[mocacinno]

I was actually crafting a response to Jet Cash, but when i tried to submit it, i saw Cnut237 already beat me to the punch

As much as I respect Jet Cash (and i sincerely do), i do not agree with his stance on vaccines.

It's very simple: science... I have a master degree in a paramedical science field, even tough i never used it after graduating. In high school i followed a highly scientific curriculum filled with chemistry, biology fysics and maths. Afterwards i spent 4 years in university in a course that was filled with statistics, biochemistry, fysics, immunology, bacteriology, virology,... I'm constantly having discussions with people i consider to be friends, but who barely graduated high school in a non-scientific curriculum, and never showed any intrest at all in science at all. For some reason, they feel that the facebook and youtube guys that cherry-pick sentences from pseudo-scientificy self-publications should be helt against the same standard as the peer-reviewed publications from respected professors in scientific journals. I constantly hear BS coming from them, up to the point i no longer start discussions with them. The only thing that happens when i try to have a serious discussion with them, is them blurting out nonsense ignoring my every word, eventough i have always been interested in science, and actively studied it, while their only source for "science" is some random dude on youtube.

It always makes me think about the joke: "don't play chess with a chicken,it will just knock all the pieces over, shit on the board and then strut around like it had won the game".
It's exactly the same for those science-deniers. If you try to have a discussion with them, they'll just blurt out what their facebook/youtube god told them (eventough it's BS), then they'll strut around as if they'd won the discussion.


I kind of blame social media AND entertainment programs.
I've seen programs where they let self-proclaimed anti-vax "specialists" discuss against real specialists. The self-proclaimed anti-vax specialists are usually people that surfed the web for a couple of months, read some crazy conspiracy theories and cherry-picked texts. However, they're pretty charismatic and outspoken.
In those programs, they're put at the same level as professors who have built their knowledge in a scientific way over many decades, starting from other scientific work from other people that have spent their whole life studying these subjects. By placing those self-proclaimed "specialists" on the same level as actual professor, they give the impression the knowledge from both opponents is comparable. It is not. I'm very sorry, but those anti-vaxxers should come into those shows, blurt out their anti-vax theories and then they should be muted while the professor discredits every single sentence they blurted out... It would be a fun thing to watch...

My grandmother (who passed away a while ago, before COVID was even in the picture) went trough an episode of the whooping cough. She also told me about friends of hers that died of polio. Why do you think we no longer have these diseases? Science!!! In this case: VACCINATION.
It WORKS!!! If you don't believe in science, you might aswell stop taking antibiotics if you get ill, don't take a paracetamol if your head hurts, don't let the doctor take out your appendix when it's about to burst... Let's see who lives the longest (on average).

[fastlight]

Public Health England (PHE) has just published a new vaccine surveillance report, here.

As anyone might reasonably have expected, the vaccination programme has had a huge effect. Estimates suggest that the vaccine has prevented 60,000 deaths and 22 million cases of infection. And this is just in England. Given that the population of England is c.56 million, these numbers are undeniably* impressive.

Every adult in England has now been offered the vaccine. Unfortunately there is still a degree of vaccine hesitancy... if the anti-vaxxers were a bit more open to changing their minds based on data, then the figures would be even better. Charts and tables sourced from the link above.









_{* undeniable by anyone who has even a rudimentary grasp of mathematics.}

LoL, england and credibility, it's like water and oil... at least oil and water you can create an emulsion.

uk gov (and all western gov) lost all credibility since a while for thinking subjects... the rest deserve more doses !

[arielbit]

Hey idiots go read the definition of science.

It is more like they are pro experiment than pro science.

[Cnut237]

~

~

Thanks for your devastating insight and laser-sharp perspicacity. Your arguments are logical and well-constructed, and have certainly helped to move the debate forward.
And in case of any doubt: /s

Who's up next?

[arielbit]

~

~

Thanks for your devastating insight and laser-sharp perspicacity. Your arguments are logical and well-constructed, and have certainly helped to move the debate forward.
And in case of any doubt: /s

Who's up next?

is there an info whether the vaxxed or the unvaxxed had covid prior to data collection?

is there a data that identify the people who recovered first from the virus and then got vaccinated?

how about the people who will survive even if they got vaccinated or not?

the virus is been around for more than a year.

bamboozle-ing chicken shit idiot.

[Natsuu]

is there an info whether the vaxxed or the unvaxxed had covid prior to data collection?

is there a data that identify the people who recovered first from the virus and then got vaccinated?

visit page 11 in the data that is cited in the post

how about the people who will survive even if they got vaccinated or not?

How would you even know that? are you somewhat have the ability of a clairvoyant?

[arielbit]

how about the people who will survive even if they got vaccinated or not?

How would you even know that? are you somewhat have the ability of a clairvoyant?

that is the point, the report says "saved"...but does the person need saving?........well.. if you vaccinated everyone then you can claim that all that survived was "saved" by the vaccine.

now you know why you are an idiot? or are you still contemplating? LOL

is there an info whether the vaxxed or the unvaxxed had covid prior to data collection?

is there a data that identify the people who recovered first from the virus and then got vaccinated?

visit page 11 in the data that is cited in the post

whereas spike (Roche S) assays will detect
both post-infection antibodies and vaccine-induced antibodies....figure 3b

LOL now you know that vaccine "dosage" is in experimental stage. of course there is more "S" than "N" they turned you into spike protein factory. idiots everywhere 

[Natsuu]

how about the people who will survive even if they got vaccinated or not?

How would you even know that? are you somewhat have the ability of a clairvoyant?

that is the point, the report says "saved"...but does the person need saving?........well.. if you vaccinated everyone then you can claim that all that survived was "saved" by the vaccine.

now you know why you are an idiot? or are you still contemplating? LOL

The word "SAVED" has only been used ONCE in the link provided and this is where it is used. I will quote it just for you

The PHE and Cambridge real-time model has been used to track the COVID-19
infection throughout the pandemic, providing key epidemic insights, including estimation
of the reproduction number, R, to the Scientific Pandemic Influenza subgroup on
Modelling (SPI-M) and to the Scientific Advisory Group on Emergencies (SAGE). The
application to data from the first wave has been published in Real-time nowcasting and
forecasting of COVID-19 dynamics in England: the first wave (20). Since the first wave,
the model has been constantly improved to capture the pandemic activity as it develops,
in particular to account for the impacts, both direct and indirect, of the vaccination
programme. The direct impact of vaccination is the number of deaths saved in those that
get infected, whereas the indirect effect incorporates the additional prevention of
infections. The history of real-time modelling outputs can be found at Nowcasting and
Forecasting of the COVID-19 Pandemic (21), with the most recent results on which the
figures here are based is currently available at COVID-19: nowcast and forecast (22).

It is on page 18 so scroll down a little more.

P.S. they used "SAVED" cause this tackles the forecasting of COVID 19 in england.

[arielbit]

how about the people who will survive even if they got vaccinated or not?

How would you even know that? are you somewhat have the ability of a clairvoyant?

that is the point, the report says "saved"...but does the person need saving?........well.. if you vaccinated everyone then you can claim that all that survived was "saved" by the vaccine.

now you know why you are an idiot? or are you still contemplating? LOL

The word "SAVED" has only been used ONCE in the link provided and this is where it is used. I will quote it just for you

The PHE and Cambridge real-time model has been used to track the COVID-19
infection throughout the pandemic, providing key epidemic insights, including estimation
of the reproduction number, R, to the Scientific Pandemic Influenza subgroup on
Modelling (SPI-M) and to the Scientific Advisory Group on Emergencies (SAGE). The
application to data from the first wave has been published in Real-time nowcasting and
forecasting of COVID-19 dynamics in England: the first wave (20). Since the first wave,
the model has been constantly improved to capture the pandemic activity as it develops,
in particular to account for the impacts, both direct and indirect, of the vaccination
programme. The direct impact of vaccination is the number of deaths saved in those that
get infected, whereas the indirect effect incorporates the additional prevention of
infections. The history of real-time modelling outputs can be found at Nowcasting and
Forecasting of the COVID-19 Pandemic (21), with the most recent results on which the
figures here are based is currently available at COVID-19: nowcast and forecast (22).

It is on page 18 so scroll down a little more.

P.S. they used "SAVED" cause this tackles the forecasting of COVID 19 in england.

page 4

suggests the vaccination programme has prevented between 21.3 and 22.9 million
infections and between 57,500 and 62,700 deaths

grammar idiot  

vaxxed idiots think they won the debate after their idiot government released some papers. ha ha ha 

[Natsuu]

how about the people who will survive even if they got vaccinated or not?

How would you even know that? are you somewhat have the ability of a clairvoyant?

that is the point, the report says "saved"...but does the person need saving?........well.. if you vaccinated everyone then you can claim that all that survived was "saved" by the vaccine.

now you know why you are an idiot? or are you still contemplating? LOL

The word "SAVED" has only been used ONCE in the link provided and this is where it is used. I will quote it just for you

The PHE and Cambridge real-time model has been used to track the COVID-19
infection throughout the pandemic, providing key epidemic insights, including estimation
of the reproduction number, R, to the Scientific Pandemic Influenza subgroup on
Modelling (SPI-M) and to the Scientific Advisory Group on Emergencies (SAGE). The
application to data from the first wave has been published in Real-time nowcasting and
forecasting of COVID-19 dynamics in England: the first wave (20). Since the first wave,
the model has been constantly improved to capture the pandemic activity as it develops,
in particular to account for the impacts, both direct and indirect, of the vaccination
programme. The direct impact of vaccination is the number of deaths saved in those that
get infected, whereas the indirect effect incorporates the additional prevention of
infections. The history of real-time modelling outputs can be found at Nowcasting and
Forecasting of the COVID-19 Pandemic (21), with the most recent results on which the
figures here are based is currently available at COVID-19: nowcast and forecast (22).

It is on page 18 so scroll down a little more.

P.S. they used "SAVED" cause this tackles the forecasting of COVID 19 in england.

page 4

suggests the vaccination programme has prevented between 21.3 and 22.9 million
infections and between 57,500 and 62,700 deaths

grammar idiot  

vaxxed idiots think they won the debate after their idiot government released some papers. ha ha ha 

Are you some kind of an IDIOT?

That is the summary pages where they summarized the contents in the next pages. The page 4 you mentioned is the summary of the page 18 I mentioned.

Why am I bothering even. nvm

[Poker Player]

Are you some kind of an IDIOT?

Yes, he is. I have him on ignore for insulting while believing he is smart. I'm not going to waste my time and energy with him. Worst of all, he not only makes a fool of himself but also rejoices, haha. Pathetic.

I believe that today the propagation of conspiracy theories has spread en masse over the Internet. In the old days someone would come up with a weird theory and tell it in the pub, while his friends drank beers and didn't know the half of it. Even if he wrote a book with the theory, the potential audience was limited. But today with blogs, forums, and social networks, with all the CMs out there, you can spread (false) conspiracy theories everywhere.

[arielbit]

Are you some kind of an IDIOT?

Yes, he is. I have him on ignore for insulting while believing he is smart. I'm not going to waste my time and energy with him. Worst of all, he not only makes a fool of himself but also rejoices, haha. Pathetic.

I believe that today the propagation of conspiracy theories has spread en masse over the Internet. In the old days someone would come up with a weird theory and tell it in the pub, while his friends drank beers and didn't know the half of it. Even if he wrote a book with the theory, the potential audience was limited. But today with blogs, forums, and social networks, with all the CMs out there, you can spread (false) conspiracy theories everywhere.

yeah circle jerks

your document debunked in less than 24 hours...well actually debunked while i was reading it in less than 5 mins LOLOL 

idiots still trying to put words in my mouth? dude/s i didn't even discuss things outside of the document, you have home court advantage! 

[Cnut237]

Why am I bothering even. nvm

Yeah, it's difficult to debate with these people, when they don't even try to build an argument.

As much as I respect Jet Cash (and i sincerely do), i do not agree with his stance on vaccines.

Yes, Jet Cash is not representative of the usual anti-vaxxer response... he does always try to build an argument. I disagree with him completely, but at least we can have a bit of a discussion.

It always makes me think about the joke: "don't play chess with a chicken,it will just knock all the pieces over, shit on the board and then strut around like it had won the game".

This is the best summary I've seen, and is demonstrated quite well in some of the responses in this thread

[arielbit]

... I have a master degree in a paramedical science field, even tough i never used it after graduating. ..

tell me you suck in science without telling me you suck in science.

masters degree is a nice shocker to some people...not me, for example, i bought a real estate from a broke Phd in 2018, that person is a Phd on commercial/business/financial thing.

...there goes your hero.. probably just ended up playing online games and stumbled in bitcoin in 2014  

gonna repeat this..

that is the point, the report says "saved"...but does the person need saving?........well.. if you vaccinated everyone then you can claim that all that survived was "saved" by the vaccine.

whereas spike (Roche S) assays will detect
both post-infection antibodies and vaccine-induced antibodies....figure 3b

LOL now you know that vaccine "dosage" is in experimental stage. of course there is more "S" than "N" they turned you into spike protein factory. idiots everywhere  

[Natsuu]

... I have a master degree in a paramedical science field, even tough i never used it after graduating. ..

tell me you suck in science without telling me you suck in science.

masters degree is a nice shocker to some people...not me, for example, i bought a real estate from a broke Phd in 2018, that person is a Phd on commercial/business/financial thing.

...there goes your hero.. probably just ended up playing online games and stumbled in bitcoin in 2014 

gonna repeat this..

that is the point, the report says "saved"...but does the person need saving?........well.. if you vaccinated everyone then you can claim that all that survived was "saved" by the vaccine.

whereas spike (Roche S) assays will detect
both post-infection antibodies and vaccine-induced antibodies....figure 3b

LOL now you know that vaccine "dosage" is in experimental stage. of course there is more "S" than "N" they turned you into spike protein factory. idiots everywhere 

gonna repeat this..

how about the people who will survive even if they got vaccinated or not?

How would you even know that? are you somewhat have the ability of a clairvoyant?

that is the point, the report says "saved"...but does the person need saving?........well.. if you vaccinated everyone then you can claim that all that survived was "saved" by the vaccine.

now you know why you are an idiot? or are you still contemplating? LOL

The word "SAVED" has only been used ONCE in the link provided and this is where it is used. I will quote it just for you

The PHE and Cambridge real-time model has been used to track the COVID-19
infection throughout the pandemic, providing key epidemic insights, including estimation
of the reproduction number, R, to the Scientific Pandemic Influenza subgroup on
Modelling (SPI-M) and to the Scientific Advisory Group on Emergencies (SAGE). The
application to data from the first wave has been published in Real-time nowcasting and
forecasting of COVID-19 dynamics in England: the first wave (20). Since the first wave,
the model has been constantly improved to capture the pandemic activity as it develops,
in particular to account for the impacts, both direct and indirect, of the vaccination
programme. The direct impact of vaccination is the number of deaths saved in those that
get infected, whereas the indirect effect incorporates the additional prevention of
infections. The history of real-time modelling outputs can be found at Nowcasting and
Forecasting of the COVID-19 Pandemic (21), with the most recent results on which the
figures here are based is currently available at COVID-19: nowcast and forecast (22).

It is on page 18 so scroll down a little more.

P.S. they used "SAVED" cause this tackles the forecasting of COVID 19 in england.

page 4

suggests the vaccination programme has prevented between 21.3 and 22.9 million
infections and between 57,500 and 62,700 deaths

grammar idiot 

vaxxed idiots think they won the debate after their idiot government released some papers. ha ha ha 

Are you some kind of an IDIOT?

That is the summary pages where they summarized the contents in the next pages. The page 4 you mentioned is the summary of the page 18 I mentioned.

Why am I bothering even. nvm